Daniel Fathers (House of the Dragon, Snatch, The Witcher: Blood Origin) on Collaborative Filmmaking

Unlock the secrets of film acting and collaboration with Daniel Fathers of Screen Actors Development Lab, London. Journey through diverse acting styles and directorial nuances from the UK, Canada, the US, and mainland Europe. Daniel shares his rich experience from stage to screen, emphasizing adaptability for auditions and the unique perspectives of theater and film actors. This episode dispels drama school myths and encourages alternative routes to perfecting your craft. Plus, gain unique insights from the world of rodeo and ranching. Subscribe now for more episodes exploring the captivating interplay of lights, camera, and heartfelt action.

About Daniel Fathers:

Daniel Fathers is a seasoned actor known for his roles in "House of the Dragon," "Camp Rock," "Snatch," and "The Void." A graduate of London's prestigious Guildhall School of Music and Drama, he brings a wealth of experience from both stage and screen. Daniel’s diverse career spans across multiple continents, making him a unique voice in the film industry.

For our listeners, CFA’s teamed up with We Make Movies to get you a discount on production management services, including access to comprehensive production insurance and workers' comp for your next shoot. 

Visit wemakemovies.org/insurance and use code CFA23 on your intake form for 10% off your quote.

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Website: www.cinematographyforactors.com

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Cinematography for Actors is a community aimed at bridging the gap between talent & crew through our weekly podcast & community events. Our weekly show supports the filmmaking community through transparent, honest & technically focused interviews with the goal of elevating the art of effective storytelling.

Transcript

Global Perspectives on Acting and Filmmaking

Speaker 1 0:00

Film , acting is actually doing it all sorts of different ways and because we have the luxury of editing like that's , that's the other thing a lot of actors don't realize that we have editing . It's okay to screw up . You don't have to have a perfect tape from from action to cut at 30 , 40 , 50 times .

Speaker 2 0:21

This is the Cinematography for Actors podcast .

Speaker 3 0:24

More than a podcast . Cinematography for Actors is a vibrant community devoted to bridging the gap between talent and crew . Each week , our show offers transparent , insightful conversations with industry leaders . We unveil the magic behind the scenes , from candid discussions about unique filmmaking processes to in-depth technical exploration . Join us in unraveling the intricacies of filmmaking , one episode at a time . It's more than just cameras and lenses we aim to inspire , educate and empower as we peel back the curtain on the art of effective storytelling . Now on to the episode .

Speaker 3 0:59

Hi everybody , welcome to an episode of Cinematography for Actors podcast . I'm your host , haley Royal . I'm joined here by your other host , indiana Underhill , and I am so excited for today's episode . It's been a minute since Indiana and I really sat down together and talked to someone . Just that we're excited about and it doesn't have anything to do with the festival or anything . So I'm excited for that . But I'm also really excited because I have finally found a place that our London UK community members can practice the technical requirements of film and television performance , which I feel like I just want to always be able to pick and choose and find the good places that I can recommend to people . I'm excited to find people who understand what we're trying to do and seem to be aligned with it . So today I'm very excited to introduce you to Daniel Fathers of Screen Actors Development Lab , london . Hi Daniel , how are you doing ?

Speaker 1 2:03

I'm great . Thank you so much for having me on the podcast .

Speaker 2 2:07

I want to get people on the radar if they know you , because they've seen you in everyone's favorite shows . So let's do a little bit of throwing out some titles here of what they've seen you know him from Camp Rock that's what I wanted to say .

Speaker 2 2:24

Camp Rock , house of the Dragon , the Witcher , snatch . Let's go through all of the really fun stuff Orphan Black , which is like Canada , 90210 . I'm like going through these of like stuff . I love Murdoch Mysteries , beautiful People , murder in the Hamptons that sounds fun , by the way . But you've done a like kind of all over the globe . You've spanned all of North America . You know being born in the UK , moving to Canada , then going into , you know , la market , then back to London where you now reside . That must be incredible , because I want to talk to you about what it's been like to span different countries and act in different countries and where you found directors differ or actors , like your peers , differ in performance , or , or I know we're going to talk about mindset , but yeah , this is great .

Speaker 1 3:14

So I guess the four geographies that I've worked and lived in , the UK , which is its own sort of biosphere , and obviously Canada , so out west as well as in Toronto . So , and I did Heartland for CBC .

Speaker 2 3:33

Oh , there we go .

Speaker 1 3:35

Heartland . Yeah , I played .

Speaker 3 3:38

Oh , my goodness .

Speaker 1 3:40

And yeah , so Toronto , and then obviously A , and then there's sort of the mainland Europe , so all of the sort of the Balkan countries that are offering tax incentives , a bit like Canada , is to American productions and so a lot of America . Most of the work I do right now , I mean even House of the Dragons , I mean it's mostly , mostly english actors , but it's an american product . You know it's hbo , witcher , the same thing . You know that's netflix , so it's american money . So there's a lot of work in in sort of europe as well . So , like czech republic , romania , this last six or seven months I've been shooting in italy , hungary , serbia . That's where we shoot , uh , the arc um on for sci-fi . So I yeah , so recently .

Speaker 1 4:32

I you know I almost feel bad saying this because I know , look , most of my tribe , my actors , are not working , not making a living , and so I had even though you know we've all been on strike and the writers were on strike and we all support it . But there was , there were shows that you know , even House of Dragon . You know we had dispensations from SAG-AFTRA to carry on but we couldn't do any rewrites , all of that kind of stuff . So yeah , I've actually been kind of busy in the last six or seven months . I'm on sort of three different shows which in itself like crying from one country . I mean the champagne problems , but whatever that's great .

Speaker 3 5:11

I don't think that that's something you need to feel bad about or feel like you're flaunting in front of anybody . I think that it's wonderful and it's so encouraging to know that , like it's still happening , you know , no , it yes , it's slower for a lot of people , a lot of people aren't working at all , but it's still happening . The work is still happening . It will come back , don't worry . There are people who are busy , you know uh , indy .

Speaker 1 5:36

Going back to what you said about the differences that there are so many differences I had to modulate how I audition and how I work in the different markets . So let's take the UK very quickly . They have five or 600 years of steeped tradition in stage acting right and all of the drama schools . Most of them and I'm going to generalize there's always exceptions to a rule the training for actors is very stage-centric . So you're going to get amazing theater training at these places , but they don't focus on film and TV and the difference . Look , I've done theater as well . I was in Mamma Mia I don't know if you guys know that at the Royal Alex in Toronto .

Speaker 2 6:23

That is like growing up in Toronto , that is like the big one .

Speaker 1 6:27

I was in the third cast and approved to go down to Broadway when needed and it was a fantastic 430 shows . It was fantastic . But you just don't make enough money . You can't buy a house or send kids to you know , go on holidays , bike none of this Right . You've just literally got to do it for your art , whereas in film and TV you make as much in a day , even at minimum scale , as you do in a week doing slogging eight shows a week and doing brush up rehearsals .

Speaker 1 6:58

So anyway , Britain's really steeped in that I think , and this is just my opinion . In that I think , and this is just my opinion I've probably got to get lots of hate mail , but I think Hollywood , america , is on the bleeding edge of this industry . It started in Hollywood in the twenties or even before that , and I think other countries are catching up . But we're , like we've been doing self-tapes for 15 years in the States simply because of geography . Like if you're doing a movie in the summer in oklahoma and there's a , you know you're up for a series lead or a series supporting lead on a series that's coming up in the fall , well , they're not going to let you fly off set . So you we self-tape , so we'll found a studio to do it right , whereas the brits really have just started to embrace self tapes and it's really sped up since COVID and so I do a lot of .

Speaker 1 7:50

Originally , how I started mentoring was agents with . You know they heard that I was , you know , north American actor and that we've been . You know I was booking stuff on self tape all the time and they would send me clients and say , listen , great actor , but doesn't know how to self-tape , so can you teach them that skill ? And it is just like you guys are focusing on the technical aspects of filming . Right , you know you can take all your scene analysis and your character development , but if you don't understand the technology of acting on camera and being on set and also if you can't audition in a self-tape , you ain't never going to get to set .

Speaker 1 8:28

There's different styles of casting . In Toronto they have big studios , they have a cameraman , they have an actor who's a reader and they've got a monitor and a table and even a boom mic coming down and most of the time it's standing up Really pro-level auditioning . When I went down to Los Angeles I was expecting that and I remember one of my first auditions . I can't tell me lies or something like that . Some big networks and I went to Paramount and then I'm in this like tiny little room with the video cameras right here and the readers .

Speaker 3 9:04

A little handy cam with the right , the completely different concept .

Speaker 1 9:10

And until you get to screen tests and then you're on , you know you're on set with everybody else . Listen , you can go into a casting director's house and sit on the couch , and I was expecting , you know , in north america it's like would you like to stand or would you like to sit ? In the uk there's a lot of you just sit , even if it's an action and it's clearly a right . So I had to adjust the way I did my auditions . I even actually , at the beginning , even though I had a reasonable amount of credits in in the us and canada , I went to casting directors workshops just to not to impress them , not to get seen , just to figure out how , what they look for . In addition , because it's completely different from from the UK to Canada to , you know , new York and LA , I feel like that's a good tip .

Speaker 2 9:58

I think it's like if you move to a new place , because I think a lot of actors you know are also constantly in motion , I think , or transition , I feel like that's a really good tip for you know , when you move to a new place , maybe take a local casting director class just to get the tidbit of information , to hear , like , how things are run , or ask those questions , and I think you know the style of acting is very different in the UK to and again I'm generalizing to America .

Speaker 1 10:22

You know we come from a very sort of method-esque exploration while we're filming , you know , very Meisner , very reactive improv . Of course we're going to keep to the text most of the time but again , ministers don't you know , some of them do , but the British ones because they're steeped in stage . It's like the play , the words are gospel , the director is 100 percent in charge . Again , theatre lovers are going to go . No , that's not the way it is . But in my experience the actor is really doesn't have so much say in the creative aspect and development of the character . It's the director's vision aspect and development of the character . It's the director's vision , whereas in film , in North American I'm going to say North American because you know , canadians are pretty damn good and a lot of American productions are shot up on , you know , vancouver and Toronto and Montreal and even out East . It's an all encompassing collaborative . You know I very rarely get acting notes from a director who's american or on an american . It's like they've hired us . We know how to prep a character . We'll have a discussion with the director and the showrunners and the writers . Maybe if the the writers are , you know , have enough power , right , if showrunner is also the creator and the writer as well , we will have discussions about character and backstory and motive and that , you know , before we film . Maybe we'll come in a couple of weeks before , and I did that on the Dark Tower with Glenn Mazzara .

Speaker 1 11:57

He had all the lead cast in and we just went out , we just had meetings and read throughs and talked about it . We did that on the Pendragon cycle as well . You know we do that a lot of times . But then when we're had meetings and read throughs and talked about it we did that on the pendragon cycle as well . You know we do that a lot of times . But then when we're on set , we're collaborating , improving emotionally and and working with the dps , right . Also , here's the other thing north american actors mostly understand well , I mean not necessarily at the beginning , but we understand that it's a different medium and therefore the camera . We need to understand what the camera does .

Speaker 1 12:31

We need to understand what the boom and the lav mic does .

Speaker 2 12:35

Yeah , contacts yeah .

Speaker 1 12:36

And how we can help sound department , how we can help the camera operators , how you know if we understand framing and lighting and movement and marks and having both eyes in the frame and the use of using . You know if we understand framing and lighting and movement and marks and having both eyes in the frame and the use of using . You know the mind and thought , because the camera captures thought or actors that I mentor , who have stage-centric training again , there's always exceptions to a rule is usually what they do is they come and they give a stage performance , which I call it the three Cs . It's contrived , calculated . What's the other one ? Oh , control , right . I'm going to say it this way every time . And then there's no room to play . And Meisner-esque play , emotional improv right . And then they's no room to play . And Meisner-esque emotional play , emotional improv Right . And then they try to make it smaller , right . That's not what screen acting is , in my opinion .

Speaker 3 13:32

It's not simply smaller . I want to ask you a little bit about something you said a moment ago . You mentioned that you've noticed you're not getting acting notes on the day from American , north American directors and this is something that I got in an argument with someone on a different podcast about a week ago because it feels like that to me too , that the time for acting notes , when it comes to North American film acting , is before the day . Yeah you , you go out , you talk , you figure that out before you get there , because on the day , the director is directing more than just the acting 100% Do we align on ?

Speaker 1 14:15

that 100% . You know directors working closely with the DP and you know on lighting , on framing , you know tracking , pulling focus , all of that kind of stuff , the visual aspect . You know if they have to direct the actor to go . Oh God , I'm not getting what I need right . One we haven't communicated and we're not on the same page , so we will

Acting in Film and TV

Speaker 1 14:38

.

Speaker 1 14:38

I mean , I've been talking leads and supporting leads in series . You know people who are on set and hopefully you know day players . My observation is the director well , I welcome to set , okay , just so you know they give them a quick brief right go and then they may have to , but the leads not so much . Yeah , it's a collaboration . They know what we're doing and we give choices . So here's the difference . I've worked with a lot of stage-centric trained actors and it took me so many years to figure out why are they doing this ? I don't understand . I went on the show I won't name the actor or the show , right , but this actor was giving the same line , reading on the 30 different takes , with the white , with the two shots , with the coverage right , and eventually , halfway through , I thought , oh , my God , I'm changing , I'm trying to anyway , but I also had to be authentic to the read that was coming across there , and so I just stopped in character halfway through the scene .

Speaker 1 15:42

And then she went like this and I went oh okay , now you're present that's great .

Speaker 2 15:48

That's great .

Speaker 2 15:49

I think .

Speaker 2 15:50

I think what's so great is like , and what you guys are talking about and what I think from like crew side , like cinematography side , it's all about the context you have in order to make the right decisions on set .

Speaker 2 16:01

And so those conversations that you're having in anticipation of filming is all context to how , when you get involved , you know you've spoken to the director and producers , but then you get on set and you're working with the crew , you already have the context to make the decisions of like , and hopefully we're giving you that context too . But it's like , oh , they're going , they're probably going to use this , like this part in the closeup . So I'll reserve that emotion or oh , because I know of the conversations about this character , when we go into , like the leading shot , maybe it'll be fun for me to communicate with the operator beforehand that I might actually walk past them earlier or I might actually like get a little closer to minimum focus than I thought like , than I thought I was going to , because the director in prep talked to me about this and I'll try that out . But I think it's like this nice dance that you're talking about of having the context on set in order to make the right decisions for a character which is great yeah .

Speaker 1 16:50

so I make a certain amount of decisions of the different ways to do it , because if you're going to do it the same way , then then that's just . Then . What is the editor got to do creatively ? So here's the other philosophy . You , you know the four by 400 relay or four by 100 relay . There's a baton , and so I feel as though the character is the baton , right ? So the person that creates the character initially is the writer , okay . And then they run the first bend and then they hand it off to a combination of the actor and the director , right . And then they put layer on their stuff of what the character is about , and then it's also up to the director , and then the editor , right . So I think , no , the character , the actor , does the back straight , then it's the director and the editor , yeah .

Speaker 3 17:44

This is such an excellent way of seeing your crew as a team and knowing what which leg is yours , and which decisions are going to be yours .

Speaker 1 17:53

Yeah , because I can say a hundred percent , right . So really , you know , and and of course , the camera department and sound and production design , they're , they're all involved with the , with the shaping of the character as well . Of course they are . But ultimately , if you're giving the same read on every single take , doesn't matter what the frame is , what the lens is , then the editor only has a choice of oh , which frame should I cover , her or him ? But if I'm giving them different creative choices as well faster pace , slower pace , you know , more angry , whatever , giving different reads , glenn Close . So she said okay , so film acting is actually doing it all sorts of different ways because we have the luxury of editing , like that's the other thing .

Speaker 1 18:45

A lot of actors don't realize that we have editing . It's OK to screw up . You don't have to have a perfect tape from from action to cut at 30 , 40 , 50 times . You know , we're going to take this golden moment , this golden moment , golden moment here , and we're going to splice them together and combined it's going to be an amazing scene on both sides , right ? So I think actors put a lot of pressure . Anyway , I digress , you can see I'm passionate I love it .

Speaker 2 19:14

I now I want to ask you something that I think hayley told me before our call today do you believe actors who want to be solely film and TV actors need or require drama school ?

Speaker 1 19:25

100% , not no .

Speaker 2 19:27

Great . Instead of drama school , what would you recommend or how would you define learning the craft from an education standpoint ? Where should an actor who's listening kind of begin , if they're like maybe I want to take this route and not do drama

Screen Acting Techniques and Performance Modulation

Speaker 2 19:41

school ?

Speaker 4 19:41

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Speaker 2 20:13

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Speaker 1 20:34

So a lot of the child actors learn the job on set . You know , I was a child actor originally but and you know , and obviously doing Camp Rock I worked with , it was just me and a bunch of kids really super , ridiculously talented , professional young people . First of all , young young actors have no fear they , they just it's , they're still playing . They don't understand failure or screw ups , whereas we we learned that as adults . So that applies pressure to adults , whereas kids don't have that . They go well , they just fun and they go for it .

Speaker 1 21:10

Yeah , right . And over the years they learn the craft right on set . So you can have a look at lots of actors in Hollywood that have done that . So let's say you're not a child actor , you didn't learn that . So you've got a choice . Do I go to university , college or drama school to learn my craft ? First of all , I'd say where are you going to go and what do you want to learn ? They're a different medium . So do you want to be a theater actor or do you want to potentially buy a house one day ? One day , yeah , and make that decision now . Those are your options , right ? You want to do it for the love of the art or do you actually want to make a living ?

Speaker 1 21:51

Look , drama schools , especially in the uk , are very stage centric . They're starting to do a little bit of uh , film and screen , and but nowhere near what we do in north america . I mean , look , look , I started studying film acting with David Rodenberg in 1999 , and we already had a two-camera , you know , on rolly tripods sound , and then he would splice it into a VHS that's how old I am and we would watch it on the screen . He said we're watching it on the screen because that's where the performance is , it's not to the people in this room , right ? So that goes to another question of you know what's the right level of performance ? And I think it's this it's distance and audience awareness . Those are the two differentiation . So distance of me portraying what my character is either saying or feeling on theater has to travel to the furthest paying audience member .

Speaker 2 22:56

Yeah .

Speaker 1 22:56

Right . So the top of the house ? Right , they might not be paying , you know , 250 bucks per ticket , they may only be paying 50 , but God damn it , they paid money to come and see me . So it has to travel that far . Okay , in a camera , and I love asking actors this so what's the right level of performance for a screen ? And they said well . Some of them say well , between you know the distance between me and the camera . I went , well , between you know the distance between me and the camera .

Speaker 1 23:26

I went oh , ok , interesting . Or the distance between me and the microphone . I go , oh , interesting , ok . So have you seen the shot in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid where we go like that and we pan out and the camera is actually a mile away , on the other side of the Grand Canyon ? Well , you know , paul Newman and Robert Redford are not , you know , having their voice and their performance to that . What's the level with each other ? That's it . That's all you need to know . What is the appropriate level between me and the other character , the actor I'm talking to , and it doesn't have to be quiet . You and I could be facing each other a yard away and I could be screaming at you and we could be in a like in a postage right 100 . So it's got nothing to do with the microphone , nothing to do with with the , the framing , whatever it's what's appropriate in the moment of the character between me and who I'm talking to . That's it . You remember that . Then you're going to modulate your performance correctly for the camera .

Speaker 2 24:30

Yeah .

Speaker 1 24:31

Would you agree with that ?

Speaker 2 24:32

I would agree . I mean , it's great actually , I think because it allows you and I think you know , when we started CFA , we had a lot of people be like a lot of directors and actors be like this is unnecessary is unnecessary or well . I don't want my actors to have to worry about it . And I think this answers the question of like if , as long as you have the context for how decisions are made , you don't , you can toss away that context and focus more on the performance between two characters in front of the lens , with you and your scene .

Speaker 2 24:59

You're not worrying , you're just being informed yeah because I think then , at the end of the day , you're able to capture that performance and if you need that context , you can switch it on without having to to get outside of the character that you're you're in at that moment . So that's great yeah , the focus .

Speaker 1 25:18

You're always going to be in character anyway , but it's almost . You've got to have an unconscious consciousness if , if , that makes sense . I think Tony Hopkins . Sir Anthony Hopkins said that you've got to have an unconscious consciousness , so we have to be conscious of where the camera is , where my mark is , but it can't be captured by the camera as me being conscious , so I have to be almost unconscious of its presence .

Speaker 2 25:47

Yeah , this is , this is great .

Speaker 1 25:49

And it's hard when you've got a steadicam operator flipping around and he or she is walking backwards and you know somebody who's got the cable or whatever and they're bumping into right and it's that , that tango . But we have the luxury of editing , so yeah , if we make a mistake , it's fine yeah , I almost want to pull out my um .

Speaker 2 26:10

the the conscious unconsciousness and unconscious consciousness are a part of the tibetan book of the dead . It's like written in at the beginning for how to like accept people as they pass um and how to like let people not feel guilty for passing . But it talks about the two mindsets of those things of in reverse , and I almost want to pull it out because I remember highlighting it years ago when I read it and I know it's in the other room , but I love that , no , and it comes up a lot in conversation sometimes and so I'm glad it came up today . That's great .

Speaker 1 26:39

Yeah , and to finish the second half of the question , I think three questions ago , like where should they go to get trained , I would say look , go and take screen acting classes .

Speaker 3 26:51

Screen actors development lab .

Speaker 1 26:57

Oh well , yeah , yeah , but I do , I mentor and I focus on that and I do it . My motive for doing I didn't never wanted to teach or coach because I my preconceived ideas of acting coaches were failed actors and I did never want it to be perceived as a failed actor . That's question right . So now I'm gonna preface this . But my preconceived idea I had found out was wrong . So and I'll tell you why so I started doing this under the radar , embarrassed . I don't want anybody to know I'm coaching , but I do want to be spiritual and help my fellow travelers and and share with them how I work . It doesn't mean that I'm you know , it might work for you , it might not , but this is how I work and and how I doapes and how I prepare , blah , blah , blah . And so agents kept sending me clients Can you teach them this ? I went , okay , but don't tell anyone , right .

Speaker 1 27:56

And then I came across a prospectus for the Guildhall School of Music and Drama . It was a master's level postgraduate certificate in performance pedagogy , the science of learning and teaching , and it said we're looking for experienced performers musicians , actors , dancers , et cetera , singers who are teaching , and we want to teach you how to teach and share your experiential wisdom in a modern pedagogy way . So , and I was doing the Dark Tower , I was sort of I had a five year option , so we were filming for six months , six months off , and and I actually did my essay a master's level so they wanted to know that I could write a master's level sort of thesis , dissertation , whatever . So , uh , I did that while I was on set at the dark tower in Croatia , after work everybody went out for dinner and I'm like in my hotel room like reading papers and stuff you're like I can write a .

Speaker 3 29:03

Yeah , I can do it while I'm full time on set somewhere else . Right , no I do that , actors , actors .

Speaker 1 29:10

Anyway . So I did that for a year and it really helped me be able to transfer my experience and knowledge in a more effective way . So learning was more effective

Mentoring and Collaboration in Acting

Speaker 1 29:21

. And then I came across . Do you know Matthew Del Negro ? No , I've known him . He has a book . He's an American actor . I highly rate him .

Speaker 1 29:29

He's a very cool guy and I would say he's probably at my level actor , maybe even a little higher kind of projects he's worked on or whatever . And he started mentoring and having this thing it's called 10,000 No's , so have a look at that . And it's all about resilience Keep going and learning from the growth mindset , learning from the failures . And I went oh okay , actually this guy's not afraid to step out and say , yeah , I'm teaching , I'm a successful actor , but I'm reframing it , I'm mentoring and I'm guiding .

Speaker 1 30:03

And I started thinking about this . We've been doing this as human beings for 300,000 years , since we were Homo sapiens , the old , grizzled warriors , you know , teach the young up and coming warriors how to hunt , how to build , how to forage . We've been sharing our knowledge to the younger generations . So why can't I do that in acting Right ? And if , if casting directors or whoever say , well , he's a fail , that really will have a nominated .

Speaker 1 30:33

I'm an actor nominated , I've won an award , you know , yeah , reasonably credible stuff . I don't think I'm a failed actor , right , I'm not a paylister , but and I've been around for decades , so and I want to virtually share and help and fast track these for the stuff that I've noticed that because I've I've worked with a lot of undergrads that come out of trauma schools or whatever , and they're on set with me and they don't know what , they don't know the terminology , of course , yelling them , they don't know what first position means or they don't know okay , turn around , let's do coverage . They were like , and so I'm mentoring a lot of them on set with it's okay , coverage , turn around .

Speaker 3 31:17

Okay , now we're turning around on you , yeah this moment is so painful too for an actor who's just it happened to me who's just graduated . You graduate drama school and you believe you're ready . You've been told you're ready , you do everything you know you're supposed to do , and then you show up and you find out it was the wrong education , it wasn't what you needed . It's so painful and you feel so alone and so scared and so trapped and uneducated after you just did all of this work to figure out how to be an actor . So I mean , thank goodness you're there .

Speaker 1 31:59

Yeah , well , I think people have to investigate what it means to be a professional actor . What skills do I need ? What knowledge do I need ? And they really need this . People are just like , oh , I want to be an actor and it's like they're from the Walking Dead zombie , I need to go to drama school .

Speaker 4 32:17

And they don't even question because they stars who .

Speaker 1 32:19

I went to this drama school Okay , Every star . I've met 10 actors who are now doing regular job , whatever .

Speaker 4 32:28

Yeah .

Speaker 1 32:29

They ended up actually not making it not being very good . I've worked with and seen tons of you know and I'm not saying I'm not poo-pooing drama schools . I want to know , yeah right , especially if you're going to be a stage actor . Absolutely it's going to be great screen it's different . So where do you go ? You go to screen acting classes in los angeles , new york , whatever , even atlanta . Wherever you come from Toronto , vancouver there's some awesome screen acting , like we've got to learn the modern craft .

Speaker 1 33:00

The craft has changed even since I've been in the industry 25 , 30 . How fast . When I started , we were on film . There was , and it was very expensive , and the turnarounds and the setups were took forever . Now it's digital and and the the cameras are adjusted to lighting . It's like , yeah , there's only 10 minutes . Well , yeah , we finished the , the setup .

Speaker 2 33:23

So , yeah , hurry up quick yeah , and I mean lighting too . I mean , even lighting has changed . So instead of feeling the heat from a light to know that you're in the light , now it it's LED technology , where you know , and the cameras are so sensitive that you're barely being lit .

Speaker 3 33:38

Or if you have to be able to know how to see that light bouncing off your own skin like you can't just feel it , you have to like see if you want to use it you know if you want to use it for a specific reason I think the best actors I , I , I watch and admire the best actors that I have worked with and had the privilege of .

Speaker 1 33:57

They understand the entire process of filmmaking they understand lenses and I'm always talking to the camera operator yeah , great what lens we want , like where am I framed ? Can you flip the monitor around ? Because it's a visual medium . I need feedback , I need to know what you guys are seeing so that I can modulate to what I'm doing and giving the camera . Give the camera , yes , and that's a dream .

Speaker 2 34:22

For me that's like a dream scenario . You know , the actors that I've been lucky to work with , who you know are very aware of you know they hear me saying , okay , we're going to swap to 35 , they know what that means and they know how to use that space , or not use that space but use it for a real like a way , because they understand frame size or have that conversation with the operator of like . When I get up , I'm going to be doing this , you know , or that how was my speed there ? Do , and then , or we're having that conversation . But I think , just like the collaborative aspect of filmmaking , like my department's collaborative and but you're the ones , as actors , making it happen , you're the ones that we're filming , and so it should . You know , we should all be collaborative and I think the crew when you know crew is not taught that actors don't know this stuff and that they have to learn it by doing .

Speaker 2 35:10

And then the majority of actors I mean I mean in Los Angeles and probably London as well , but I don't work in that area so I can't really speak to it but they don't get the opportunity to be on set and learn , because they're terrified when they start getting on set , that they just want to do a good job and make sure that they're not like they're out of the way and they're not out of like line . And so it's unfortunate , because I think that there's this like miscommunication between departments that's happening constantly , and so that's why I'm always like I love seeing our community work with each other and grow together , because that's how they learn to collaborate on set , especially if they're learning with a new director or they're meeting at a networking event , a community building event , and being like we should shoot like a spec sometime or we should shoot this sometime . And I think that's the best education is put yourself on the set as much as possible , whether that's background and just seeing and observing and watching , or whether that's hey , I really want to shoot this scene . I'm inspired by this scene . I know you want to be a DP and you're starting . You just got a camera .

Speaker 2 36:04

I know that person has a camera . Do you want to like shoot something this weekend ? Because , like , at the end of the day , you want to be on set , like put yourself on set , um , and it doesn't , don't put money into it , just like use your phone if you need to . But actors are creating more stuff now , like more than ever their own content , and I think there's such a success in that because when they get on to someone else's project , whether smaller or large , they have the context to make those decisions and the comfortability to communicate on set , which is just great .

Speaker 1 36:32

A hundred percent and I started making short films and with a DP , a friend of mine , and it's just . I'm just approaching it as a learning experience and , to be honest , don't tell anyone but I'm actually loving the cinematography and the directing .

Speaker 1 36:50

The acting is a bit of a chore , it's like oh yeah I get it yeah it's so fun and exciting and new right I'm watching movies and whatever it is and sitting with my wife going oh , what a great shot . Do you see the light , the shot , composition ? And she's going what ? What are you talking about ?

Speaker 2 37:07

yeah , totally you can't get out . Yeah , now you know , you know . I'm hooked on light composition and framing and yeah this is great right , this is great news , yeah , so .

Speaker 3 37:20

Daniel , now let's talk about how you are going about teaching us young actors how to hunt . Let's talk about your studio and your format and how everyone can find you when they're if they're based in London .

Speaker 1 37:34

Yeah , ok , super . So I'm on Instagram . It's absolutely tiny , I just started it so it's called Screen Actors Development Lab . So I modeled it a little like the Professionals Actors Lab in Toronto . So David Rodenberg and we always would do scenes and we'd shoot them and then we would look at them and he would talk about the business and what it means to be an actor and all of that kind of stuff . I don't have a big website . I don't have like big marketing because , yeah , we tape them and then we talk about you know different ways of doing it and what's going on and all of the sort of the training and the teaching that I've learned from David as well .

Speaker 1 38:15

As you know Meissner-esque and a bit of Stanislavski and Strasberg or you know all of the traditional practitioners but modern day . And then I also incorporate what you guys focus on on the technical aspect . You know eye lines and you know don't hang . You know when you've got your cell phone . You know eye lines and you know don't hang . You know when you , when you've got your cell phone , you know , yes , this is natural . But what are you looking at ? I'm looking at exactly .

Speaker 2 38:39

Yeah , we have a whole class on that because , I'm like yeah , because what you're looking down at is not what the camera's looking up at you know it's just , it's not , it's yeah , it's great .

Speaker 1 38:50

I talk about the technical aspects of filming and great , and the mindset as well beautiful , yeah we're gonna do a collaboration .

Speaker 2 38:59

I know it . I'm very excited about this . I like think on the horizon we will be doing a collab , because I think I think we bring in like a lot of the technical and the like community building and like collaborating aspect and and I think you do the exact same , but you even bring in more from like the , the actor experience , like Haley , of just like , yeah , what is the physical action of drinking ? Look like on camera , how am I interpreting that ? Like where ? How am I remembering to do that ? Like just the at every day becoming a part of the camera process . So I'm really excited about about

Bridging Talent and Crew in Cinematography

Speaker 2 39:32

that . Um , daniel , thank you so much for joining us on an episode of this podcast we're going to link to all of and I'm so happy it's saddle I used to be a rodeo cowboy .

Speaker 1 39:40

I used to be oh yeah , and have a horse ranch and train horses oh yeah so I wanted something that was memorable . And also there's the 100% yeah .

Speaker 3 39:54

I love that it's saddled . Daniel Fathers , you know him from the rodeo .

Speaker 5 39:58

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