Balancing Career and Life: Wisdom from Actor Scott Cohen

Join us for a deep dive with veteran actor Scott Cohen as he reflects on his 40-year career, offering insights into the evolving landscape of auditions. Scott discusses the shift from traditional in-person auditions to modern self-taping, sharing how this change has influenced his approach. 

Scott shares fascinating stories about working with directors, from seasoned veterans to innovative newcomers. He highlights collaborations, such as with director Yuri Zeltser and a short film project with his wife, illustrating how different directorial visions shape an actor's performance. Through these narratives, Scott emphasizes humility, openness, and respect in creative partnerships, offering valuable insights for aspiring actors and filmmakers.

Balancing a thriving career with personal fulfillment, Scott delves into the importance of connecting with the material, maintaining authenticity, and finding joy beyond the set. He advocates for actors learning about other departments on a film set to enhance performances and foster a collaborative spirit. Wrapping up, Scott offers advice on achieving stability and fulfillment amidst the uncertainties of the acting profession, making this episode a must-listen for anyone passionate about storytelling.

For our listeners, CFA’s teamed up with We Make Movies to get you a discount on production management services, including access to comprehensive production insurance and workers' comp for your next shoot. 

Visit wemakemovies.org/insurance and use code CFA23 on your intake form for 10% off your quote.

Calling all actors! Take 25% off your membership at WeAudition with code: CFA25

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Cinematography for Actors is a community aimed at bridging the gap between talent & crew through our weekly podcast & community events. Our weekly show supports the filmmaking community through transparent, honest & technically focused interviews with the goal of elevating the art of effective storytelling.

Transcript

Navigating Auditions

Speaker 1 0:00

This is the Cinematography for Actors podcast.

Speaker 2 0:03

More than a podcast. Cinematography for Actors is a vibrant community devoted to bridging the gap between talent and crew. Each week, our show offers transparent, insightful conversations with industry leaders. We unveil the magic behind the scenes, from candid discussions about unique filmmaking processes to in-depth technical exploration. Join us in unraveling the intricacies of filmmaking, one episode at a time. It's more than just cameras and lenses we aim to inspire, educate and empower as we peel back the curtain on the art of effective storytelling. Now on to the episode.

Speaker 1 0:38

Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of the CFA podcast. I am one of your co-hosts here, but Haley is back in LA doing a podcast herself today, which is funny. So I'm Indiana Underhill. I'm here with Scott Cohen, an incredible actor who has a ton of great work coming out, one of which Circumcision I am seeing tonight a narrative feature at the Berkshires International Film Festival and I'm on location today in Lenox, massachusetts, as Scott has his boot licked by the wonderful Rose Budd, who is our white lab here today. Hi Scott, how are you?

Speaker 3 1:13

I'm good, Indiana, how are you?

Speaker 1 1:15

I'm so good and I'm really excited because we've been planning this for a while now to get together, and I'm excited that we're here in person to do it, because that's like that's the best. I don't love the Zoom, I love like being in person and like kind of riffing off each other, so this is great.

Speaker 3 1:29

It's actually very interesting because I don't think I've had an in-person audition in probably six years.

Speaker 3 1:36

Oh wow, way before COVID, and you know I mean self-taping was happening, you know before that and you know and being offered things, but I don't think I've ever walked into it. I haven't walked into a casting office in probably six, seven years and next week I have my first in-person audition in seven years or whatever, and I'm really psyched about it. Like my adrenaline is already up. But then I started to realize, oh no, I'll also be in the room with other actors that are competing for the same part and it's like the whole idea of getting psyched out and all that kind of stuff really kind of plays on you and is it interesting because you know I'm the cinematographer side of this business but is it interesting to see kind of the other actors like aesthetically as well and like the variety of different people going out for a similar part?

Speaker 3 2:22

Or do you ever get like psyched out because you have doppelgangers in there? Yeah, you have. Well, you get psyched out because you have doppelgangers and you get psyched out because there's diversity.

Speaker 4 2:27

Yeah.

Speaker 3 2:27

And you don't know what you know. You try to figure out. Well, you try to hang on to what is singular to you, what is unique to you, and if you lose that, you're just you're lost. I mean you really kind of you have to kind of rediscover your way through that. I mean, it is a I think auditioning is part of the job is to walk in and be prepared to know what you're doing. But then the other part of the job is to really walk in to a room and understand that what you're bringing to the table is unique, is singular, and that's what you've worked on, and not to worry about everybody else in the room. It's an enormously difficult job.

Speaker 1 3:04

Yeah, and not to worry about everybody else in the room. It's an enormously difficult job. Yeah, this is interesting and I've always found this really interesting about actors and how hard it is. Is that idea of, like, you know, how long have you been in the industry now?

Speaker 3 3:15

Forty years.

Speaker 1 3:15

Okay, so for 40 years you know the self-tapes, the auditions. What has that been like? Like when you used to go go in, when you were first starting out. What was, how did, how was that mentality changed? Was it more that I, you know, cared about how I looked against the other actors, or what has changed? Or have you always been authentic to it?

Speaker 3 3:33

Well, I guess you know, authenticity changes, I think. I mean I imagine myself that I was authentic then. I feel like I'm authentic now, but in a completely different way, I think. Then I mean I remember, you know, living in New York and walking up subway steps and actually having panic attacks walking up subway steps and like being at the top of subway steps and not being able to breathe and like trying, why am I not like, why am I having a hard time breathing? You know, and it really was all about nerves going into an audition and I think that you know.

Speaker 3 4:12

Then I think the audition there was such desperation at that point where you're like you're just you're, so you just. I mean I want to get a job now too. But like there's a difference Now. It's like I kind of think I feel more present and I'm also more accepting of where I'm at, like if I'm, if I'm not where they think I should be, that's not really my fault. It's like I've done whatever I can do to prepare for, for the audition and um, and that's what I have. It's like I mean, and so I have, I walk away a lot more settled. I mean then I used to walk away feeling so unsettled and would often call a manager or an agent and say, can I get back in? You know, can you get me back in? And they would be like, can we just find out what they think? First I'm like I know they hated it, I know it, I know it, I know it. And then usually, and usually the way it would work is if I hated something, they loved it.

Speaker 1 5:05

If.

Speaker 3 5:05

I loved something, they loved it. If I loved something, they hated it. So why that happens, I have no idea, but that's that's usually what happened, and I actually think that's part of like the audition process too, because the audition process becomes about, you know, the idea of um and an actor kind of knowing, like the the the easier you feel in it. I think there's a certain kind in an in-person audition they're not feeling the adrenaline, they're not feeling like a, an energy that's kind of coming across and I think that's what people feed off of. I think people feed off of that energy Um. So I think if you're, if you actually do have nerves, if you, if you're kind of um, that's a good thing, that's something that really should live in you and that you shouldn't be afraid of. But but a lot of times the psychology becomes you know that you, you messed it up, you didn't, you didn't really do a good job.

Speaker 1 5:49

Wow, and for those actors that are kind of, maybe they are getting invited to their say, they started acting during the pandemic when it was all self-tapes and now they're getting invited to their like first auditions in person and things like that what are like the tips that you have for them, maybe from like a technical or a practical standpoint?

Speaker 3 6:08

Well, let me just say first that I've worked actually with a, with a number of people, younger people that, um, that were in school or conservatory whatever, during the pandemic, and I've noticed actually that their level of presence is so much greater than what I experienced as a young actor, I mean, and their comfort in front of a camera is 10 times more, I think, more than even what I am now.

Speaker 1 6:36

Because they're used to being on camera all the time.

Speaker 3 6:38

Being on camera all the time, and I have, I think, two ways. I mean, I think you know, I think the self-tape concept is both advantageous and disadvantageous, but I, but I, but I think that the people that came out of that are really, they're much more well prepared, but at the same time, I think that what happened, what you know, what they one of the things that I feel like is important to remember, like is important to remember when you walk into an in-person audition. Now, I don't think those people are expecting what they would see on a self-tape.

Speaker 4 7:10

And if you're.

Speaker 3 7:11

If you're prepared, like you are, for a self-tape, then I think you're going to you're, you're not going to come into the room having what I said before. That energy that kind of creates that, that kind of um, that vibe that's in a room that allows people to kind of see who you really are, because on self-tape you're, you're, you're, you're so practiced, I mean, it's so perfect that it's um, you know, I don't really think people are seeing who you are.

Speaker 3 7:34

I think people are seeing a kind of a, a fan, an image, a fantasy of what you may be or what you could be or what you might be, but in, in in-person, uh, appointments, it's, it is. There's no lighting no you know, the camera's not. It's not a good angle, I would say nine, ninety percent of the time. And you know, and it's barely you know, and and you can move. I mean usually, and they, they either tell you to sit down and stand up, but but um, anyway.

Speaker 3 7:59

So my, my, the pointers, I would think is are more about the idea of what you expect from an in-person audition and what you expected from a self tape audition, and there are two different things, and I think being in the room is, um, allow yourself to be excited by it, because that's a really good thing. So, if you think you're like you, if you think you're off, you're probably not off, you're probably just doing like if you, if you, if you uh, just doing like if you, if you, if you, uh, if you fuck up, it's okay, because you know, um, that's what happens in a. If you're shooting a movie, if you're shooting a tv show, right, you fuck up a lot. And I mean because I mean, to me it's all about rehearsal, it's like it's. It's why I, I would much rather do tv and film, because to me the journey is the discovery, is the most important part of it the most fun and so it always feels like a rehearsal.

Speaker 3 8:44

It never like if it's a performance that feels like it's dead, it's done so, um. So I feel like if you could, if you could experience it as a rehearsal, then you're, you're on your way.

Speaker 1 8:54

Wow, and so recently, you know, we have been at some of the same film festivals, our films have been sharing some film festival posters. Which is really cool is, yeah, and I think I'm noticing I'm sure it's happened in the past too with us, but I've noticed it more now because we've been we've been in the works of getting together and talking. When we've been here at berkshires and recently had a film at the beverly hills film festival, I've been noticing a lot of the the press around some movies that you've been doing. And then here, you know, you have circumcision premiering tonight at 8.30.

Speaker 3 9:24

You say that title so quickly. Oh yeah, trippingly off the tongue. Yeah, circumcision.

Working With Various Directors as Actor

Speaker 1 9:28

Circumcision tonight at 8.30. Yeah, folks, there's nothing crazy about that, it's true. I noticed that, you know, these films feel they feel like different, really unique, one-of-a-kind characters, and I wonder what it's like to work with one of a kind characters. But I also think it's the writers and directors that are writing them that are also probably pretty unique themselves. What is it like to work with, um, with different directors, I mean, and maybe some of them newer and some of them, you know, have been in the industry a while. But how does that, as an actor, work for you, working with different directors?

Speaker 3 10:03

as an actor, work for you, working with different directors? Well, um, I used to feel like, um, without putting my foot in my mouth, I used to feel like, if I wasn't working, a director that was smarter than me then I, I'm not really that interested.

Speaker 3 10:15

Right, I've come to the place where I think I understand that you know it's not very helpful to be that arrogant and people, most people, are smarter than me. I don't know, I don't know, but I think that it's. I feel like the actor at this stage of my career, that the actor is truly a vessel of the director's vision and it is my job to really make what they see come to life. And I work really hard at making that happen and oftentimes I think I go beyond what they even think, that they're kind of imagining which I love about what I do, because I feel like that's the way I work, it's like it's the way I imagine things, it's like I it's the way I imagine things, it's the way it's like I take everything very personally.

Speaker 3 11:06

So if, if someone asks me to do a part, I'm going to really kind of investigate what it means to me and and and try to communicate whatever that is on screen and but I often find that you know a director that guides me in a way that surprises me is really really fun, Wow. And because if I could keep open to that and kind of recognize that, oh, I'm not the only one thinking on this set. It's like there's somebody else who's thinking on the set and they. They wrote it, they directed it. They know exactly what they want to do with it. Directed it, they know exactly what they want to do with it then.

Speaker 3 11:47

Then I really just need to be kind of an open book and and and and, really kind of open my heart rip open my skin and allow them to come in, and and you know, I mean sometimes you don't get anything, but other times you get quite a lot.

Speaker 3 11:57

I mean, with this movie, circumcision, I'm working with the director, yuri Zeltser, who is, I think, brilliant and I think that he has, you know, he's brilliant because he feels like he's not that he feels, but he's attempting to. He has image in his head of what a movie looks like, and so he talks about that and that's how he directs, and so I'm interested in molding my character in relationship to what he's kind of trying to create. Other times it's. I love directors that just let me go and trust that I have the ability to recognize what a character is, recognize what the scene does, recognize how my, what my voice does in the film itself, and and just lets me go and and because if somebody lets me do that, they usually have to pull me back because I'll do something bigger than what is needed. But but that's okay too, and and that's I'm into that, um, but in the end I find it it is the most interesting thing to me to collaborate with another person to make a film, and it is, um, I find it, uh, it's thrilling, it's, um, it's inspiring, it's uh, it's interesting. It's what makes me um, I will do a shitload of research because someone else is telling me what they think and what they, how they think about something. So I adore it.

Golden Moments in Film and Inspiration

Speaker 3 13:31

I mean, I mean, it's one of the reasons that I, that I'm in this, it actually started, I think. I mean, I have experiences way, way, way back, but I did a short with a short that my wife, anastasia Trena, wrote, and she didn't direct the short, but this we did this maybe 30 years ago and I remember I was doing the scene, I was really struggling and she whispered in my ear something that had to do with my motivation in the scene and it literally was like a sentence and it was like a shot in my brain and it just like it pushed me, like it just made me go to another level, and so like that to me, yeah is in that moment, and it's rare that it happens.

Speaker 1 14:20

But in that moment it felt like, oh, I'm creating art, like that's what's happening right now yeah, it's kind of incredible I have those moments as a dp on set when I'm you know whether it's behind monitor, just off set standing with the director and and you, you know you've captured something that really works and that means that all the pieces of the puzzle have kind of come together from a collaborator standpoint and a storytelling standpoint.

Speaker 1 14:42

And it's one of those incredible moments where you're like, oh, this is why I work in film you know, and because I think oftentimes you know 90 of it is politics and business, before we get to the 10 art portion you know for a lot of our departments, and and to to have that 10 be so much of like, so golden and have weight to it, it's like such a wonderful experience. I, I would agree with that.

Speaker 3 15:04

I mean, and it is mainly politics and it it's like such a wonderful experience. I would agree with that. I mean, and it is mainly politics and business which is unfortunate. And I, you know, because I teach now and I try to teach no business and no politics, but you know that people will, that's what people will run into. But, yeah, and I think that you know, if you're lucky enough to have a career, that you you've experienced it. Like I always say, you know the. What you're, what you're striving for, is just to catch a glimpse of what that is, because as soon as you taste it, that's, that's what you strive for, and and you don't, you don't get it almost ever.

Speaker 1 15:42

No, that's true.

Speaker 3 15:45

You're really just kind of busting through yeah and so, but when you do taste it it's like oh, that's what it? Is yes, and that's what I always want to strive for.

Speaker 1 15:50

Yeah, you want to keep having it.

Speaker 3 15:51

It's an addiction.

Speaker 1 15:52

That's why we're here we're gonna have a tough industry. Uh, you know, people always used to say this to me, and now I feel like I say it all the time is like we could make money doing a lot more things for a lot easier way to make the money, and we'll make a lot more money doing those things, whether it's a corporate job or whatever it is, you know.

Speaker 1 16:08

And but we choose to be in this industry for a reason, and, and so let that reason be those golden moments that we've become addicted to um so, yuri seltzer, you said for circumcision, as the director, what kind of and this might not be singular to this film, but what kind of materials did you want from yuri for the character in this film? Because it's shot in an interesting way, correct? It's shot like first person.

Speaker 3 16:29

Yes, it's shot first person pov. But this movie kind of turned out it was um. I mean, at first it was um. You know, I literally was playing um, not literally, I was playing, uh, somebody who was the best friend of the person of the of the first first person POV yes and, and that was a pretty easy task, it wasn't you?

Speaker 1 16:52

know, it was not.

Speaker 3 16:52

It was not difficult. I kind of knew what he was heading towards and the only thing that I was interested in I mean because, because the the topic of the film is strange and interesting I really just needed to know from him what do you need from me in order for the movie to progress? But what happened was that as we started shooting, there was another character that was kind of developing out of the stuff that I was doing that he had thought about already. But I started to say I think this would be really cool if we kind of made this into just a whole other character and that character became the devil.

Speaker 1 17:36

Wow.

Speaker 3 17:38

And then he took excerpts of the Brothers Karamazov and used that to kind of that's my favorite book. Oh my God, it was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 17:43

And that's what tonight, and use that to kind of.

Speaker 3 17:44

That's my favorite book.

Speaker 1 17:45

Oh my god, it's, it's, it was unbelievable and that's what tonight is inspired by for some of that character yeah from which brother, all of it or the dad?

Speaker 3 17:52

uh, the one, no, not the dad, the, the um, I forget the brother. I forget the brother.

Speaker 1 17:57

Is it the religious one?

Speaker 3 18:00

I think the religious one. I think the religious one. Yeah, I think. So Is it?

Speaker 1 18:02

Yuri as well, anyway, but I'm going to start fangirling because that's my favorite book of all time.

Speaker 3 18:07

And I actually read it. I read it while we were shooting, because I never read the books, but I was like I got to fucking read this book. Oh, my God, and that's I got to read this book quickly, which I've done before. I was in Europe once shooting a TV series, and I had an audition for Anna Karenina back in London.

Speaker 4 18:25

Yes, and I read Anna Karenina. I was like I got to read this book.

Speaker 3 18:29

It's crazy. I didn't get it. But then what happened was that the voiceover that he used while we shot it was done by this guy, and I saw a version of the movie that he used that voiceover and I said I think you need somebody that has a lot more at stake and invested in in the voice, and I, I think you're lacking. You know, that was my feeling and I said why don't you use me? And so I ended up doing the voiceover.

Speaker 1 19:03

Oh, wow, so you're the best friend. I'm the first person.

Speaker 3 19:06

POV. Yes, I'm the best friend and I'm the devil. Oh, that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 19:11

Oh, I'm so excited.

Speaker 3 19:14

So it's all weird, so my involvement in it became kind of more as we talked.

Speaker 1 19:21

It's a one-man show over there, yeah it became kind of a one-man show. But not really yeah.

Speaker 3 19:27

But fun, but really fun, holy shit, and really interesting to do. So the devil, right yeah.

Speaker 1 19:33

You know the thing, whenever I think about the devil, the most moving parts for that in art for me and this is personal is the seven layers of hell.

Speaker 3 19:41

Sure.

Speaker 1 19:42

And, like the depth of that existence, dante's Inferno For Brothers Karamazov, which I'm just amazed that I'm so excited to link it tonight, because the reason I read Brothers Karamazov was when I was getting into film. I was obsessed with Terrence Malick. You know everyone can roll their eyes at that, because I think everyone is. But you know everyone can roll their eyes at that because I think everyone is. But you know, and I I watched Tree of Life. I was 15 and I was like this is incredible. I didn't know movies could be made this way, you know, in this kind of format, with the voiceover, with the, the play on nature versus. You know all these, um, all these dichotomies. And I read the Brothers Karamazov because Malick said he was inspired by Brothers Karamazov to make Tree of Life really and each brother in Tree of life represents one of the ways of life that josh wrote

Speaker 1 20:20

about and yep and the relationship between father and influence oh my god yeah, and all of it is written um in the, in the template of what that structure of family looks like. Um, you know, and, and different content, but still, and so I read that book to make more sense of tree of life for me, to dig deeper, because he taught philosophy at MIT and all this and whatever, I'm going into my Malick deep dive.

Speaker 3 20:47

Terrence Malick taught philosophy at MIT.

Speaker 1 20:49

MIT and Harvard. Yeah, I mean, let's fact check it. But yes, I'm pretty sure, yeah, and he. And so when you say, brother Karamazov, I can only imagine the amount of material you had to inform yourself of for the Devil. Because, yeah, what is that process? I've never dove into this part of it, but what is that process like? To have a material that's written that is not the script, and what parts you are electively taking for the character?

Speaker 3 21:14

Well, I mean in relationship to this movie, it was a general taking.

Speaker 4 21:18

Cool, cool.

Speaker 3 21:19

Because I would have spent way too.

Speaker 1 21:22

I wouldn't have had time to really kind of like.

Speaker 3 21:24

Yeah, but it that is actually always a dilemma.

Speaker 1 21:28

Yes.

Speaker 3 21:28

How much you're taking from from from from resource yeah, and and, and how much you're bringing like. I'm, I mean, it's a I no longer fight about for myself, because I actually I think I've, I've done it enough where. Oh, that's enough and I'm good. Or that is just useful information that is in, it's just, it's inside of me and it will come out simply because it's inside of me.

Speaker 3 21:54

And and it's, and accepting that and kind of letting that kind of like in me, then that's that, I think, is really the most important part of that. Yes, unless I really wanted to like take a phrase, a physical thing, that that somebody does. But usually I'm not quite like that. I'm usually kind of like it's the essence that that's happening for me, so that that's always kind of an issue. But but I think for that.

Speaker 4 22:19

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Speaker 1 22:51

We have some exciting news. Cfa has teamed up with we Make Movies to get you a discount on production management services, including access to comprehensive production insurance and workers comp. For your next shoot, visit WeMakeMoviesorg. Slash insurance and use code CFA23 on your intake form for 10% off your quote.

Speaker 3 23:13

It really became about the struggle between faith and no faith and trying to which is that book?

Speaker 1 23:22

Yeah, and that's also the Tree of Life thing. Exactly that's why I dove into it, because it's the dichotomy that people are wrestling with inside of these characters and humans Absolutely. Which makes us relate to them more, absolutely. So it's so interesting. Yeah, exactly, wow.

Speaker 3 23:33

And for me I mean, you know, playing it was actually it ends up being even more interesting because I'm playing the other guy yes, um but I, but I think, even while I'm playing, when I when we shot, like you know, this, this devil bit, you know I need to make him human, I need to make him totally three-dimensional. For sure, and because that's just who I am, it's like I can't I can't just be yeah, the devil, yeah, what does that mean?

Speaker 1 23:55

what does that mean exactly? It's been done, personified in so many different ways.

Speaker 3 23:58

Yeah, yeah, and I would never, ever, ever. I mean, even what I do is probably like.

Speaker 1 24:02

You're like I have to be my devil. Yeah, my version of what I've interpreted as the devil, exactly exactly.

Balancing Life and Artistic Inspiration

Speaker 3 24:05

Yeah, yeah, so that's basically I mean. So resource is a huge thing, but you have to know when. And oftentimes resource is. You know, there's a devil in me, and so it's really about me trying to find out, well, what do I want in this scene and what you know, because it's not that difficult to figure out when you know, and so. So for me it's always about you know, investigating my personal connection to the material, and hopefully the resource is not becoming a distraction where I'm just like I'm just focused on the resource and because then you get lost and you're not, you're not really doing what's on the page, you're doing something that's not on the page, and I mean that's even like for like for shakespeare you know it's everything is really in the text yes and so you don't really have to do that much research, but you do sometimes because you need.

Speaker 3 25:03

Well, what does this word mean? What does the sentence mean? What is this in context of you know, but at the same time, this seems pretty explanatory.

Speaker 1 25:10

It's not it's not that difficult to understand yeah, what I'm finding really interesting through my journey of kind of so you know, historically dps are involved with actors, but not on, of course, on the level of you know some other department heads and and with CFA. What I've been learning through my journey selfishly, um is is how actors work and you know what struggles they're going through and how different actors interpret different texts. And, and what I found the most interesting thing in the world is um is you're kind of doing your it's a disadvantage or a deficit to like the script or the work If you're just reading the words off the page, meaning like you're interpreting it based off someone else's references only, or someone else's text, or like you're reading a book and you're like, well, it has to be exactly like this book. The beauty comes from informing your own life and life experience as you, as your actor, you know, into the work itself.

Speaker 1 26:03

I think crew side actors we don't we love but we don't understand. Sometimes, right, we see it as like, well, there's probably only one way the director wanted this, and then you realize that the actor is the one that is blossoming the character, taking it from the director and making it its own thing, and that's why I I tell so many actors I'm like you shouldn't feel upset if you didn't get that role. It just meant that that role wasn't the thing you needed at that moment.

Speaker 1 26:29

You know it's like and I think it's okay to not get things it doesn't mean you didn't do a good job. It just means they were looking for something else, and that's okay that it wasn't you that was that thing.

Speaker 3 26:41

I mean, you know, I mean we're all, we're all really important and self-important.

Speaker 3 26:45

Yeah, but it does become. You know, you really do have to come to some at some point. You have to understand that you have one. You have no control. Yes, the only thing that you can do as an actor is walk in and do the best you you can do, correct, and that's, and that's it. It's like I mean, and you walk away. I mean I say that, saying it, but I mean I never walk away. I mean you feel rejected and you feel horrible, but I think the trick is well, what can I do better? Do I need to do anything better? But then you talk about I mean, we talked about this earlier. It's like then you think about balance of life.

Speaker 3 27:18

And balance of life is really walking away from an audition and, knowing you know I'm hungry. I need to get something to eat. I need to see my mother. Yeah, I need to call my brother. I need to see my girlfriend. I need to see my boyfriend. Whatever it's like, I need to walk, I need to. Just I need to get rid of this. I need to shed what just happened, and shedding is a huge thing. I mean that's interesting yeah, I mean one.

Speaker 3 27:43

If you've had time to work on it, you've worked on it. Let's say you've worked on it for a week. I mean it becomes part of you. It's like you're. You've become that character.

Speaker 1 27:50

You're carrying it with you, you're sleeping with it.

Speaker 3 27:52

Yeah, so you know, part of, I think, living a balanced life is actually accepting that you're going to walk away with residual of the character and that that will live for a few more days, and that's okay too, because that's actually, you know, you're, that's part of the artistic conception, and so you gave birth to something and now you have afterbirth and that's that's okay, and so you know, and but at the same time, when that starts to die out, you start to move forward in another direction and find something else to do. And oftentimes, I think you know, balance of life which I've I've struggled with quite a lot is having other things in your life that are, that do mean something to you.

Speaker 3 28:33

It sounds so cliche, but it's like whether it be cooking or or or whether it be, you know, raising bees or whether it be, or whether it's living in a house and cleaning a house, or whether it's reading books or watching TV, or or seeing people playing cards or whatever it is that takes you away, or if you have a day job that, like you know, I think often helps, like you know, because you get to talk to other people that are it separates you.

Speaker 1 28:58

It separates you, gives you life experience to inform characters you will play in the future. Yes, yes, or just your work.

Speaker 3 29:03

It will always inform you. Yes, everything you live informs what you do. I mean, I'm a huge proponent that you know everything I do. Everything has to do with acting.

Speaker 1 29:17

Oh nice, I'm the same for like just art in general in my life. Like I'm like when I was younger I traveled a lot and every single thing I saw or did I now feel why I am the person I am and how it informs, when I'm looking through a lens why I'm shooting it this way yeah or why I want you know that extra inch on the left side of frame to be cut. Like you know, it's it. Everything informs that decision making process, so I love that.

Speaker 3 29:38

Yeah, I mean, I totally I believe that and I, living up in the country, now it's like I have, I build things and I do think lots of stuff around the house and I'm you know we have chickens and we have bees and we have a dog and we have a lawn, and you know we have, you know we cut wood and you know I built a kiln house and I'm building, I'm renovating a barn and but everything.

Speaker 1 29:59

Dream life, but everything has to do with acting.

Speaker 3 30:02

Yes, Like my entire experience has to do with you know how, then I will communicate what it is that I'm living. I you know, and I often think, like social media kind of deteriorates or disintegrates or kind of just takes away from that experience, because you're not necessarily living the experience, you're living it to share it. I want to live it, to absorb it, to then share it.

Speaker 1 30:24

Yeah, you're living it to share it. I want to live it to absorb it to then share it. Yeah, and I mean, for those that are technical, that are listening, it is also like everything you listed can be broken down to different skill sets, like whether it be physicality or the emotional resonance you have with certain activities, or like watching the way bees do their dance before they enter or the way you're harvesting honey, or the hexagonal shapes they're making and the integrity of those structures.

Speaker 1 30:43

Like all of it informs probably things that you can take on maybe like a, like a minutia, like level and interpret it into something much bigger to scale when you need it Absolutely. Yeah absolutely.

Speaker 3 30:54

I mean Anna, my wife, I mean she's like that's what she does.

Speaker 4 30:58

Yeah.

Understanding and Respect in Filmmaking

Speaker 3 30:59

She absorbs it and puts it out there. Yeah so it out there like yeah, um, I, I think that it's um. I also just think that for actors, because you do, you talk about the technical side a lot yeah I mean when I went to. I went to college which I didn't go first for, for acting. I ended up acting, but the the college I went to, one of the greatest things that that they taught was that you, as a as a theater artist, you learned every single department yes, I've heard this multiple times and so.

Speaker 3 31:26

So when I came out the first time, I was on a film set. I'm interested in costumes, I'm interested in grips, I'm interested in gaffers, I'm interested in lighting, I'm interested in ACs, I'm interested in everybody in craft services. Everybody's an equal to me.

Speaker 4 31:40

Yes.

Speaker 3 31:41

And everybody has an opinion which I'm actually interested in listening to.

Speaker 1 31:44

Yes, like nobody's, nobody is like you know the hierarchy, that there's no hierarchy to me, yeah and so I mean there is yes, but there has to be an order for it to work, for it to work yeah, but everybody is.

Speaker 3 31:55

you know, everybody has a job to do and, and to me, my job is to actually understand, because my job will be better, yeah, if I understand everybody else's yes. One, that I don't get in the way. Two, that I could perform better because I know.

Speaker 1 32:10

The context, I know the context.

Speaker 3 32:12

I know that a guy for us to put something up that will hit me in a certain way. I know there's a dolly man or a girl, whatever that's moving, something that I need to be involved with.

Speaker 1 32:24

Yeah, pacing, you have to match their pacing. Match their pacing. Yeah, lens swap happens. Where do I move within my frame? Exactly, exactly, yeah, everything, yes, everything yes.

Speaker 3 32:32

And it just behooves me to understand all of that even more. And I actually ask the more off-camera stuff I do, the learn about camera yeah because, you know, I'm sitting right next to a camera. Totally, I'm looking at all these buttons. I'm like what?

Speaker 1 32:46

and you're seeing what the changes have to like. You just hear a lens swap. Normally if you're in front of the camera, you hear okay, going in 35, you're 35 being called. But if you're off camera looking at what has to happen in that workflow, you know the amount of consistency and stop, um, you know the changing of, like, the depth of field and how the proximity to the actor and what we're seeing now for context versus what we saw before, what's magnified, what's not it's it's a really interesting way to inform yourself, if you can kind of see that Right, and it definitely informs your work.

Speaker 3 33:13

I think so, and also I also think it creates respect.

Speaker 3 33:16

Yeah, and I and I think you know if you want to be respected on set and I think. But I also just wanted to say, though, that because I've worked with tons of DPs, but, like the best DPs I've worked with, tell me what's being seen and how it's being seen and how I can fit into a frame or use a light in a way that will only create more shadow, and that's why we're putting it there right, like it has a purpose so it's like my biggest job on set as a dp is is to inform people of the context, of why we're doing something, because then they can inform their decision making around that right, like it goes down to, like my crew, right, I'll go to the gaffer and I'll say what we want to do is this.

Speaker 1 34:00

I don't say just put that light up, right, because then if that light doesn't work or for some reason they can't find it, they know what else they can do in order to get that emotion we want out of the shot. And I think it goes for actors too, like when, when I work with actors, I try and inform them on a crazy amount of information but enough to give them context for, like, you know, we're on, we're on a 35. So that means, and we're five feet away, you know we're, we're going to be on like a MCU, and I'm excited because this is the shot where this happens, and blah, blah, blah. And they know this. But then they're like, oh, interesting, so if I move here, I'm going to be out. I'm like, yeah, and they're like, okay, cool, if I, like I'm doing that back and forth, I was doing in the wide, is it going to be, you know, am I think those fun technical decisions?

Speaker 1 34:44

As an actor, I always say to people I'm like the CFA methodology of like knowing the practical, technical and creative is like you can choose not to use that right. Like I'm not forcing people to sit there and understand the technical and, you know, for newer actors who potentially would be overwhelmed emotionally, I'm just like inform yourself, like read the book of technical, have it in the back of your brain, use it if you want it, but if it's too much for this, we'll adapt with you. Of course, you know, because we're there to support you at the end of the day. And so I think when you're talking about how, how much you you know from a respect standpoint, but how much you get into it and talk to everyone on set, it definitely changes the way that you're interacting with the camera because you don't have the space that you normally would on theater.

Speaker 3 35:24

I agree with you. I think I actually like I think I pay attention to DPs and assistant camera people more so because I imagine myself, you know, one day, oh, I'm going to be a DP, Right and so and I look at how they look at things, because DPs usually look at things like they're kind of like staring out into the open. Their eyes are usually like laser focused.

Speaker 1 35:45

I apologize actors all the time because I'm like I'm staring kind of through you and I'm sorry because they're like what yeah? What do I?

Speaker 3 35:51

need.

Speaker 1 35:51

I'm like no, I'm just looking at the light on your note. You're good like yeah, yes, but I love that look.

Speaker 3 35:55

It's like it's a really cool look. It is so it's like I'm gonna be like that one day. And and and also I mean because I, you know, back in the day, when, when, when, cameramen used to use, you know, use the handles.

Speaker 1 36:06

Yes, the wheels.

Speaker 3 36:08

And that was really, you know, like. You just felt like, oh, I want to be like that. It's like I want to act, shoot and light my entire film Right, and you know that will never happen, but but it's like, I imagine myself to be like that.

Speaker 1 36:21

Yeah, I can see it, and what?

Speaker 3 36:24

is a little light meter.

Speaker 1 36:26

I know which to be like that, yeah, I, I can see it and, um, with a little light meter I know which is like just honestly the best tool in the world. But it is funny because when I I love watching dps be portrayed in films like a nope, when, uh, when, like the dps found and he brings his film camera out because it does it's not electronic, so it doesn't shut down he's wearing like his little scarf and he's like I need this over you know, and it is funny because we are seen as like the high demand people who have to make the shot perfect you know, and uh.

Speaker 1 36:47

and then there's that, that other film that's one of my favorites. I'll remember it and if you haven't seen it, I'm going to recommend it. I'll put it in the description, if I remember, but it's with um. It's with, uh, steve Buscemi and he's young and um New York film, uh it's about film, 16 millimeter film and yeah and Catherine uh.

Speaker 3 37:06

Keener.

Speaker 1 37:06

Keener is in it, and it's all about the making of a film and the DP is once again ridiculous. Yes, I totally, but it's so real yeah, I love it anyway, but um, but yeah, the DP perspective on set is hilarious my first commercial was as a DP, was it?

Speaker 3 37:19

yeah, it was like I they. It was the very first commercial I did for a Hyundai. You can't see, I'm pretty, I'm sure you can't see. This was like literally. This was 35 years ago Longer. I booked the commercial Thought I'd never book a commercial, went on set and it was this like really famous commercial director and he told me get up on the dolly and look through the lens and then come out and look outside. And I did just that.

Speaker 1 37:44

It took literally 45 minutes to shoot yeah, right, and I was done, yeah, and I made a ton of money commercials.

Speaker 3 37:51

We love them yeah, I made like 50 grand sometimes I'm like, should I just make a commercial? You know, as if it was that easy, but it's like it's, it's insane it's insane.

Navigating Career and Personal Balance

Speaker 1 37:59

Yeah, um, now I know we have to wrap things up the next seven to ten minutes, so I just want to get into. What are the things you notice? You've been in the industry you said 40 years, right, what are the things you do notice from the technical that you require just from being on set so much? Like what are the things you're asking of directors, ADs or DPs, or you know the gaffer around your AC? Like, what are? What are those conversations look like for you?

Speaker 3 38:22

I, you know, I mean I have a lot of curiosity, so it's like to me it's a. I mean I have curiosity about someone's life and I'm interested in someone's because I'm usually looking at people and I'm always that's. I mean, this is just me and I, you know, I'm always interested in where people come from and how they kind of came to this particular job and what they're, you know, because usually a gaffer is on their way to becoming a DP Right and so so that's, I'm interested in that journey and I'm like that that's.

Speaker 1 38:51

You know, is this what you're talking about, or are you talking about something like kind of Anything you want to talk about, I, yeah, you can talk about from like a life experience point, or like what you're talking about, like from a technical. Are you asking when you're in front of the camera, like lens?

Speaker 3 39:02

whatever you want but usually I'm asking. I'm asking because yeah I'm thinking about making a movie yes and and, but I haven't made a movie right, but I'm.

Speaker 3 39:12

I always think about making it, yeah, and so so I'm always looking for information that will help me kind of. You know, inform, inform, you know when I need to, when I need to do it. But I'm also interested in and I mean this is twofold, because I think that it's it is mainly about respect and, um, because I ask people questions, to really kind of include people in my process, cause usually it's like you know the actors, like you know there and we're there and we don't want to, you know, disturb the actor. But I think that I'm usually looking for people to help me feel comfortable in the pragmatic reality of the set, not in my reality of what you know, because I kind of know what my reality is, but I want to feel comfortable where I want to know that I'm in a safe bubble.

Speaker 3 40:04

And so so my questions become about what is that doing? How is that affecting?

Speaker 1 40:09

me Well, you're creating that safe space because you are becoming familiar with everything around you.

Speaker 3 40:13

Yeah, I hope so, I hope so that is definitely, that is definitely the goal, and I love being inclusive. I think it's really important for everybody to be, you know, to be inclusive and inclusive and and to make sure that everybody feels how I imagine an entire set should be which I think is like a family collaborative let's talk about that balance for a second.

Speaker 1 40:32

I think a lot of people struggle when they live in, like you know, the large cities for film. Um, because it feels like you constantly are not doing enough or you constantly have to be doing something. And I know I struggle with that. My therapist recently told me that I need to take 20 minutes a day where I'm not. I'm so productive so I'm to not be productive and just stare not journal, cause that's productive to just like literally stare and like look at something or like be outside. You know, and even through that work of 20 minutes three times a week, I have like completely different balance in my life. But I wonder, like that balance of you know you live in the country now you have the hobbies, activities, you know you're obviously have an incredible partnership Um, how do you navigate? You know you're close to New York that's where we are today in Massachusetts how do you navigate that balance? Like? What does that schedule look like? What are the logistics around it? How have you made it work for you?

Speaker 3 41:24

Um, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 41:25

Okay, great, you just make it work.

Speaker 3 41:27

Yeah, great it really doesn't work Um being an actor.

Speaker 4 41:31

Yeah.

Speaker 3 41:31

Because I'm not. I mean, I think I've been in my life. I've had maybe five years out of a 40 year career where I've I've known that two or three jobs ahead of what's what's going on wow. I just never know yeah and so my life is a constant like, oh shit, I have to go yeah and um. You know that's.

Speaker 3 41:51

It's really difficult, um, especially as you get older and you have more or you're taking care of more yeah right and um, I think fortunately, for I live with somebody that really understands, she's in the same boat, kind of like, and you know, so we play that together. That's great, and I think, though, that a lot of it is about the attempt at making your career not part of your ego.

Speaker 3 42:22

Right your career not part of your ego, right, and so your ego is not involved in the and this is probably the most difficult part, because, as you, as you work a lot, your identity is based in what you've done, right and so.

Speaker 3 42:35

But if you're capable of creating your identity or owning your identity separate from your career, yes then, um, then your balance will come very easily and you'll be able to kind of like, know, oh, that's that and this is this, and I need to pay attention to this and I don't need that right now. And those decisions I mean, I just had to make a decision, like a day ago, about, you know, something that came up that I said no to. It just wasn't worth it and really based in the idea that this throws the balance way off right, yes, for no reason.

Speaker 1 43:09

Yes, yeah, there's no plus side to it it's just if.

Speaker 3 43:11

But if my ego's in that, yeah, and my identity, because I'm not working at the moment, then I go off balance yeah, and I mean that unpredictability of our industry and the uncomfort associated with it.

Speaker 1 43:21

Discomfort, right discomfort is, I guess you rather be have discomfort and not know what's going to happen in a world that you've built around yourself, that you love, versus the unpredictability, but you're miserable when you come back home to it you know right and so I think it's incredible that, yeah, it may not work perfectly, but you're still still like how many films this year? Three, four films, five films coming out this year, this year.

Speaker 3 43:48

All the films that I've done this year, though, that I've loved so much, is because they've been so unique. Yes, and they've been, because I've made no money from them.

Speaker 1 43:56

Right.

Speaker 3 43:56

But I've loved doing them yeah. So, and that feels really good, yeah, feels really good. You know, I mean I made money doing a TV series that comes out in the fall, so it's like I mean not a lot, but it's like but you can find that balance. Hopefully, yeah, hopefully, yeah. I love that, I think.

Speaker 1 44:09

I think that's something we have to constantly remind ourselves and like take a deep breath. You know it's like because it just feels like sometimes you can get stuck in the weeds for satisfied because you're doing art that you love and maybe you're not. Like you know you have to pick out of the triangle of what you want. Um, that getting out of the weeds, feeling for half a second, feels so good sometimes and I love that you can find that balance. I think a little bit too. Um. So I'm really excited to see circumcision tonight and I can't wait to have you um, hopefully we can get you to la to do a workshop soon, manifesting this proposal to come through, because I would love to do a longer talk, especially with Haley, my actor side of things. Scott, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 44:50

Thank you so much. I love what you guys are doing and I would love to participate in any way that you think is appropriate.

Speaker 1 44:55

We're going to make it happen. Awesome. Thanks so much. Bye.

Speaker 5 44:59

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