In this episode of "Small Business, Big Moves,". Thomas Bennett joins Josh Thomas & Michael Gilbert to explore creative strategies and innovative approaches that have propelled small businesses to new heights. Discover the power of business funding and business tax credits.
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Small Business Big Moves is a podcast where innovation meets entrepreneurship. Join Tom Bennett as he explores all things business growth! From business funding and business tax credits to conversations with leaders who have grown successful and innovative businesses!
In this episode of "Small Business, Big Moves,". Thomas Bennett joins Josh Thomas & Michael Gilbert to explore creative strategies and innovative approaches that have propelled small businesses to new heights. Discover the power of business funding and business tax credits.
Connect with us on social media:
- Facebook: Thomas Bennett
- Instagram: @Thomas.mbennett
-YouTube:@SmallBusinessMoneyConnector
- LinkedIn: Thomas Bennett
Subscribe to "Small Business, Big Moves" on Your Favorite Podcast Platform for more inspiring episodes on innovation and entrepreneurship.
Small Business Big Moves is a podcast where innovation meets entrepreneurship. Join Tom Bennett as he explores all things business growth! From business funding and business tax credits to conversations with leaders who have grown successful and innovative businesses!
Welcome to Small Business Big Moves, the podcast where innovation meets entrepreneurship. I'm your host, Tom Bennett, and we'll explore all things business growth from business funding and business tax credits to conversations with leaders who have grown successful and innovative businesses. Welcome to the show. Today, we're going to switch things up a little bit. I'm here with Josh Thomas and Michael Gilbert, and we're just going to jump into all things business funding and business tax credits Hey everybody, welcome to the Startup Business Summit. My name is Josh Thomas. And I've got Michael Gilbert here with us from Execute Capital and we also have Tom Bennett if you are running a startup and you're looking to seek capital for your startup so that you can grow it, whether it's funding to grow the business or funding to get your idea off the ground, whatever it may be, we're going to bring on a series of experts so that we can make sure that you have all the information, all the insights, and all the connections and networking that you need. To be able to be successful with your startup and get all the funding and capital that you need. So we have a series of really high level guests, high octane entrepreneurs and business experts that we're going to share with you. And the first one that we're going to introduce you here is Mr. Tom Bennett. And so Tom has kind of left his nine to five to go really all in on helping rescue and scale small businesses. And one of the things that he does is he helps them scale access as many funding options that are available. A lot of which we don't know about, such as there are some refundable tax credits that you may not be aware of up to 1. 5 million. And also Tom talks a little bit about business and personal credit repair. So Tom, we're really glad to have you here, man. I I'm curious if you could. To the extent that you have seen when somebody is startup, they could be potentially pre revenue, not a whole lot of revenue to speak of. What are some things that you recommend that they do to really get themselves established to get access to funding and capital as quickly as possible? It's a great question, right? And it's a, there's a, there's a lot that goes into that. But first thing that comes to mind is kind of what we mentioned initially, right? I think no matter what it is you're looking for a lot of times as far as a lot of funding options out there, personal and business credit does come into effect. Now, obviously when you're a startup business you're not going to have that business credit established. You're not going to have any. Business credentials out there, but there's plenty of options out there from the startup route and personal side of things. That's why I would say, at least from what we're seeing or getting involved in personal credit score is a big factor in that. So I would say making sure that everything's lined up there. A lot of the programs we're looking at Us personally, they want to see at least a 675 or 680 credit score. That's some of our in house startup funding that we offer. Obviously you're going to want to, you should have a business plan or some sort of plan on what the business is going to be and where you're looking to do with that. But I would say that that's the main thing that comes to mind for me that we're seeing is Is personal credit. Now, obviously there's plenty of different options as well, right? Like when we get into capital raising or different areas of raising capital then obviously there's investment banking out there, there's other people that will, we have people that will do investing banking fund startups, there's plenty of different options. I just always, like I said, I think personal credit, right? Can't hurt to have that established at the end of the day. It makes a lot of sense. And what, what's, what you're really saying there is yes, personal credit's important, but if, if me as a potential investor, I'm considering investing in your business, I want to know that you, you run a tight ship on your own you know, because how you do one thing is how you do everything. And, and Michael, I'm, I'm wondering, do you have Any kind of commentary on that as, as you're looking for businesses to invest, how important is that for, for what the, what the actual startup founder themselves, how are they running their ship? Well, we see that a lot. And that's one of the things you're going to ask for is, is your background. Can you manage your own life, much less manage my money that I'm going to be investing in you. So, you know, execute capital, you know, we're typically 5 million and up. And that's what investors look for. Not always, you know, there, there are smaller investors, angel investors out there that understand guys fail, you know, and I like investing in guys that have failed at least once because typically they'll, they'll correct course on their second or subsequent startup. But credit's always important. Absolutely, and that's what I mean. I know a lot of it too is right. Like we all know that we all want, we're all in the space where we want to see new businesses come all the time and blow up and do big things. Obviously as we know the statistics that it's most businesses don't make it past the first few years, especially After five years. So we obviously a lot of the lenders out there are going to want to see some established tax returns or other when you get into like the real business funding options right now, obviously, like Michael said with startup funding, there's plenty of different options out there. It's really just evaluating each business and looking at like you said the background can can they take care of their self and the business. Then if they do both of those and everything in between, then we probably will be able to find some options for them. And, and so what are some recommendations that you might have if somebody is watching this right now and they're thinking, Oh, well, my credit's trash. So what are some things that we can do, some steps that we can take to, to really start repairing our, our personal finances, our personal credit situation so that we could be potentially credit worthy and attractive to a new investor. Yeah, I mean, we, see it all day, right? A lot of. I'd say at least 90 percent of the people I talk to that have lower credit scores, it's almost always high credit card utilization, right? I mean, that's, that's the main thing people, a lot of these business owners, people that are starting up a business, they're putting their whole life into this, right? They're taking all that money to start up with. Marketing, start up with everything that they can think of and putting everything on a credit card, maxing out these credit cards, and then that's just putting their personal credit right in the dump, you know, so I think a lot of it is if they can just take those credit cards and pay a lot of that off. The utilization and the debt to the debt on their typically get it down to like that 30 percent range I think is ideal. Then they can definitely skyrocket that up now obviously if they have 1690 days or more missed payments or some other issues on the file, then obviously that's going to be a bigger pull. But I think as simple as more times than not, it's really just finding different options to Chuck some of that credit card debt away. And then also you can get into the conversation. I know everyone's uncomfortable asking friends and family or connections. But if you if you have people that see where the business is going and see what you're capable of, then you may be able to get that personal guarantee or cosigner on some of these options so that I'd say more times than not though is just really paying down those credit card balances. One of the things I ran into Thomas early on was had all these credit cards, you know, like 15 credit cards and my, I mean, they were all maxed out and trying to get the payments were on time. All of them. But I wasn't getting anywhere. And so we closed the big deal and I was like, I'm going to pay off one of these and so I paid it off. I think it was probably 5, 000 and they actually lowered my credit limit and what I should have done. And I wanted your take on this. I, I, I should have paid it to where it was 30 percent of utilization across multiple cards. What is your typical suggestion on that? Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up right because it's that fine line right a lot of obviously we get in the conversation of paying off these credit cards are paying them down. Yeah, I think you get down to like that 30 percent 20 percent I think 10 is fine but once you once you get those cards almost paid off or especially when they are paid off. And then like you mentioned these cards just realize hey we're not getting any money or interest out of this we're just gonna. Close this out, which then is going to have a negative impact on your score because now you're all the length of history is just taking a taking a dive there as well. So yeah, it's kind of that fine line. But we see kind of in that once they're paid off and you have about 70 percent available on that credit card, then that's where the rate the credit score really starts to increase. Yeah, because it, it, it caused a reduct, because they reduced the credit limit on that card drastically. It made my credit score dip by like 200 points in a month. Yeah. And it took about three months before it came back. But yeah, that was not, I was, I was pretty angry about that. I was like, what? So. Yeah, that's not a function. It's a credit card industry. You gotta understand it. Yeah, it's, and you know, the, the, the rules and the laws and everything is always changing. And so I know you could dive a little deeper on that but without getting too, too doomy and gloomy. So let's say we get that right. Or let's say that, you know, our, our credits, okay, it's intact, it's in good shape. What are some of the things that are possible? Tell me a little bit more about what you help businesses achieve. Yeah, no. So on the On the startup side specifically where typically if everything lines up and everything's buttoned up and they have that credit score in check, then we're able to probably get them about 150 to 200, 000. In the form of a monthly terminal, right? So, essentially, they're getting that 150, 000 or 200, 000 And then they'd be looking at typically a three to five year term paying that off monthly, right? So, it's a great program for a startup business owner that's able to get their hands on that. Just on that program specifically. And then as far as once they're established and kind of past that startup phase, they've already kind of got the money to grow the business. It's established. Then we have a ton of different programs depending on the industry or what they're looking for. Couple SBA back programs that go out up to 10 years and then pretty much anything in between, right? From equipment financing, lines of credit term loans, SBA back programs commercial real estate, and pretty much just about anything in between. I confidently say that we have programs for everyone. It's just some of those programs with where everything is right now are not ideal programs for some people, right? There's some programs where people need the funds, like, hey, we need 50, 000 tomorrow. Obviously, what I'd like to say that Quick capital isn't cheap and then good capital takes a little longer to get so it's programs out there for everyone. A lot of them, like I said, do cut in. A lot of people will say in the business funding space, they Personal credit doesn't matter. I like to put that out there right up front with the programs that we have going on a lot of people in our space. It's always going to come down to personal credit for those top tier programs. And average monthly revenue or annual revenue right those all play a big part. If you have a 500 550 credit score, and your business is doing five or 10, 000 a month, then Most likely you're going to end up with a MCA or one of those cash advances. Now, if you're really established and growing the business and there's some some elite top tier programs out there available. Yeah. And so you mentioned something I think that's important. You have to work for the things that are valuable. Most of the stuff that's handed to us has little basic value. We have to go and work for the things that are worth having. And I actually, I know a guy. Who provides short term basically bridge loans and like micro bridge, like a pedestrian bridge, you know, kind of, kind of loans where, where it's like, I need 200, 000 tomorrow or this deal's falling through and he'll cut you a check for 200, 000, but prepare to bend over because that money is very expensive for somebody to write you a check the next day. but hey, you need 200k to save a 5, 000, 000 deal. That starts to make sense. No brainer at that point. Exactly. So that in, I mean, we saw one of those deals today where a company needed, that's why I said the 50, 000, right? Because one of my partners had a client that needed 50, 000 by tomorrow morning. They were able to get that turned around in six hours from. The start of the conversation to getting the funds in their bank account. So like you said, it's a great point when you when you need that money, and it's actually you're actually going to put it to use and grow the business that at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what you're putting on it when you said like, okay, 50, 000, 100, 000, 200, 000. Well, that 200, 000 is going to turn into a million dollars. So then it's okay, you're still Still making a good return on it. It's not the ideal scenario, but it at least gets you to where you need to be. Yeah, and what it really brings up is the concept of opportunity cost. And Michael, I'd love to have you speak to this a little bit. A lot of times it requires a big mindset shift for us to think about, Well, gosh, that's a really high interest rate. You know, that money is very expensive. But what is the opportunity cost of not taking that money and not getting the results that I could have gotten? Could you kind of speak to that a little bit, Michael? Yeah, we just had a client hit us up for half a million as a bridge loan and was willing to pay whatever it cost. But he's sitting on, you know, probably a multi billion dollar opportunity and this would have got him over the edge and he, he did secure that, but you have to look at the opportunity, right? So, and investors look at that as well. So, whether it's them or any type of lender, so. Yep. Makes a lot of sense. And, and so as far as getting that initial funding and this is a question that, that I might ask to Tom here. Getting that initial funding, when is the best time for us to be securing capital in your opinion? I'd love to hear Michael's. Answer on this, but, but Tom, what, what is, when is the best time to start securing capital? Michael's laughing. So I know what you mean. The first thing that comes to mind to me is obviously right away, right? I mean, it's, you're going to start as soon as you get that ID, you're going to start figuring out how am I going to. Make this come to fruition. How am I going to make this happen on the startup side, right? And you need capital you need funding to really make anything happen if you want to actually have a successful business You know Like I said the whole maxing out the credit cards and using your own money is only going to get you so far And then once you have a business, I mean I tell people this all day, right? Oh, we're all set We don't need funding. It's the best time to get it right especially with where things are today We have people that are doing millions of dollars a year that are taking MCAs. They've always said, I'm never going to take a cash advance. I'm never going to take revenue based financing. Now they're in a position or will be soon where they need to actually go that route. I talked to a guy today that's doing 60 million a year in revenue, and he's got 1. 2 million out in cash advances and revenue based financing, right? Just stuff that they never thought that. They would have to do. I would obviously mean them towards a line of credit if they're able to qualify for that. I'd much rather someone take advantage of that than some of the revenue based financing. But that's one thing where I'm looking at it now, if you can qualify for a line of credit. It's a no brainer to do that right if you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow you get this 200, 000 line. Maybe you only have to take 10 or 20 grand. You're only paying on what you're taking, but I would say no matter where you are in business, it's definitely a time to be thinking about capital and where that next round of funding is coming from. Michael, what are your thoughts? Well, two things. And Thomas said, it's when do you need funding and it's before you need it. I'm sure Thomas gets it all the time as well. I think the question I ask people is, well, when do you need this capital? Because in our space you know, which is the five million and above space, we're looking at 120 days to a year to raise that capital. You know, family offices, things of that nature. Well, The answer is always, well, I need it yesterday. Well, then you should have been planning yesterday. Not, not, right? So, the answer is, before you need it. Right? You need to have that teed up before you need it. Because it does take some time. You know, you heard Thomas say you know, he can get some deals done in six hours. But that, those are, those are the unicorns. Those, that's, that's very uncommon. To do that. But You know, yeah, Thomas, what is your typical turnaround on a deal? Yeah, so I mean, that's a great question, right? I mean, with the with the desperate funding, I like to call it, right? If you you need, you need funding yesterday we can typically get that done in in a day or two, right? Now when we look at lines of credit, those are, that's a really quick turnaround as well probably a similar timeframe. And then once we get into Because a lot of what we're trying to get clients is some of these SBA backed programs. Now the good thing with that is they're not going to their bank and taking three, four months to find out, hey, I'm letting you know four months later, you actually don't qualify. You just sent in all that, all the documents and we found this, so you're not going to qualify. With those programs, we, if the client works with us closely, gets everything back, We can typically get them funded in about two to three weeks. That's a 10 year term loan going up to about up to 150, 000. And then once they get that going, they can do that again. Every 90 days, up to three times a year. And then we have similar programs that kind of go alongside that. So I would say it depends on the funding. And then we get into, like I said, some of those other bigger deals with the commercial real estate, cash out refis some of these larger. Really larger lines of credit and term loans. So those deals are obviously going to take a little longer. But yeah, I think it it all depends on what you're looking for. But I would say if you need it quick, we can get it for you quick. If you're looking for a top tier program, then you're going to be waiting a little bit to get that. So let's talk about SBA a little bit. You brought this up and, hey, you might be able to get qualified in a couple of weeks. A lot of people hear that. We, we toss around the idea, oh, you can get an SBA loan. But sometimes we just don't have enough information on that. And so let me ask what are the basic, aside from your personal credit maybe what are some of the basic qualifications for getting an SBA loan? Can I, can I get an SBA loan without having a lot of established revenue with my business? Like, let's say I'm more of a startup. I don't have a lot of revenue to speak of. How can I qualify and what could I potentially qualify for? Great question. Yeah, so I'll start with this, right? I know there's a ton of different SBA programs out there. We really get selective of the ones that we partner with. We have two right now that we offer that we've been offering for a while now. Both of those programs, one of them. They want, we'll just say they want to see at least a 675, right? Because they want to see like a 675 or 680 credit score. The other one they want to see at least a 700. And this is something for the listeners out there to be aware of, right? With just where everything's going. These programs a couple months back, you could get in with a 650 and they said, you know what, you need at least a 680. And now they're saying you need at least a 700. And then now there's rumors that they're going to turn around and say you need at least a 720. So it's not encouraging, but it is the it is the truth that Back to the personal credit. So right now they're looking at at least a 675, 680 credit score and they're looking for good monthly revenue. Right? So what I mean by that is typically they want to see at least 30, 000 a month in revenue is kind of like a healthy business and some of this, one of the other programs is if you can get half of your. Annual revenue, right? So if you're doing 200 300 000 a year you still be still may be able to qualify for some of these programs And those are sba backed like we talked about which is beneficial And you're not waiting those long wait times. So if I talk to a client today, i'm qualifying them I'm finding out if they're even going to be a fit for this program Then I do my due diligence. I send everything over Once we get that back, I get that over to our underwriting team and we typically know I'd say within about three to five days from there, if they're going to actually qualify. And then from that point, they start working with our partner, that teams up with the SBA. They require a couple more documents. And then, like I said, from there, they're typically looking at about two weeks from being funded. Makes sense. And so there was kind of this threshold you mentioned, 200, 000 a year, 30, 000 a month. And that's, that's kind of the, the minimum threshold to get qualified for some of these SBA type loans. Does that sound right? At least, and I don't want to speak on other programs, but at least the two that we offer there may be some that you can get from a bank that you're going to wait six months for. To get a smaller SBA loan, those absolutely may be out there, but from the two that I'm familiar with, yeah, that's where the where we're looking at right now. Is there a time frame in that they need to be in business before they apply for those types of loans, or is it just based off revenue? It's a great question, right? So two different programs, one of them they want to see, just like a lot of lenders out there, they want to see two years of business and personal tax returns. The other program where they require typically it's a 680, but we may be able to flex a little bit with a 675. They can work with it if you have started up a business that's been in business for a year. And you have a business tax return, we can work with that, right? Because we do want to help these startups or businesses that have been in business for a year or so. There, that's why we have those two different programs. So one of them's more for the more established businesses. And then the other one is a great option for people that have been in business for about a year and starting to really grow. Makes a lot of sense. And so what I'm hearing just to kind of summarize everything that you've shared so far is they're looking for, let's say, a reasonably established business, not a brand new business. It's got some revenue. It's, it's got some sales coming in the door. And you've got a reasonably responsible business owner with a decent credit score. And basically they're looking for responsible people that have. Responsible businesses so they can give you money and say, I, I, I've got a reasonable chance to believe I'm going to get my money back. The bank's always looking to protect their money. Is that kind of a fair assessment of what you've shared so far? 100%. Absolutely. And those those SBA loans are never, never easy to qualify for or get. Right. So now that we're able to offer these to more people, right, I mean, it's obviously Not everyone has that great credit score doing great revenue. But it is a quick way to get an SBA program. Like I said, instead of waiting the six months, four months, whatever that may be for the bank to say, Oh, by the way, you don't qualify. But that's exactly right. Yeah, you need to have all that established if you're SBA is not going to consider it or even look at anything if it's not buttoned up like that. What do you typically tell people when they don't qualify? So I typically know, obviously right up front, when I find out, going through the conversation, I'm finding out their revenue, I'm finding out their ballpark or their personal credit score. I, a lot of the people that we connect with have received Some sort of communication from us about this 10 year SBA term loan. Everyone wants it. It's something that's very appealing. So a lot of my conversations start with that. Now I preface the conversation. Hey, obviously you've expressed interest in our 10 year term loan program. I want to get to know more about you in the business. Find out what we may be able to do for you. I leave with that because I don't want to Focus just on that SBA program because I may find out in five minutes There's no way they're going to qualify for this and i'll say that it's going to be tough with If they have a 650 I say look, it's going to be tough. They do require at least a 700 or maybe it's that 680 program, but we do have other options right so then I'm pivoting to maybe we're looking at a line of credit. Maybe we're looking at some other term loans that we have equipment financing AR financing there's a ton of different programs we can offer. Always trying to do. What's best for the client. And then at the end of the day, if we have to offer them the revenue based financing, Michael, just like you said, I'm always asking how soon do you need the money? What are you looking to do with the money? I'm looking for a hundred thousand yesterday. This is what I'm looking to do with it. I'm actually going to turn around and open up another location. Hey, maybe this is the only program you qualify for, but. In three months, it's going to turn into 500, 000. So we just like to look for what the funding is going to do for them. Right. As long as it makes sense, then we probably have an option for you. So for people that don't qualify, let's say that, you know, their credit score is a little wonky. How long does it take for them to kind of go through that process? And does that include setting the business up so that it has its own credit score? Great, great questions. So both parts of that, right. So we, there's so many different options out there right now. We just launched a software our company did where we'll actually be able to help you monitor and improve your business and personal credit score. There's not many options out there, right? There's sites like nav. com, or you can check your business credit. There's a bunch of people out there that focus on improving business credit. I know I'm connected with a couple of people that are doing a great job at that as well. And then there's people that will focus on. Personal credit repair right there's a lot of people in both sides that are really just killing the game out there helping these people grow their credit to get the life that they need. But I think it goes deeper than that it's not you it's easier to just work on them together right so with the personal credit, you have like you said a 500. Whether that's low or high five hundreds or low six hundreds, then yeah, we definitely have to work on that just to put you in a position where you can get some of these better programs. I think like we said, starting with paying off a lot of that credit card debt and it's going to take time right you may somehow get your hands on funding or however you get that money to pay off those credit cards if you even if you do that. It's going to take probably at least a month. If not more for that to adjust now, if there's other delinquencies or any, any issues on the report, that's going to take longer, right? I mean, now you're looking at three, four, five, months. If you're lucky And I'm talking about having someone actually helping you with this, right? I'm not talking about you're going to go try to handle this all on your own and you're going to send all these letters off to the three major major credit bureaus out there. There's people out there that specialize in that and it doesn't happen overnight. But I think like we talked about with best time to look for funding is before you need it. Best time to improve your credit score is before you really need to utilize your credit score. So definitely can take time. Business funding too. It's something that I try to tell every business I talk to. You should work on establishing your business credit. some of the main things are just starting off with those net 30 cards, right? You get some of these credit cards that you have to pay back within those 30 days, those are really going to help build and establish that. I know there's fleet cards out there, right? So if you have some of these gas cards or other options, just really opening up some of those different sorts of credit cards in the business are really going to help you at least establish it. And then obviously if you're able to pay that off, they say net 30, but obviously some of those other cards, if you can pay them off before that's due, obviously that's going to help you as well, just kind of building that up. And then when you get these, some of these business loans, a lot of these business loans will help build that credit as well through the business. So let's kind of switch gears here a little bit. And there's one way that we can access capital is through borrowing it. One way we can access capital is through raising it. Another way we can access capital is through the government because they have capital available for us as well in the form of tax credits. And so could you talk a little bit about that at a high level just to make sure that we have a clarity because there's a difference between tax deductions. So could you, could we start there by defining the difference and then talk to us about what's available? Yeah, no, absolutely. So with tax credits specifically, right, there's programs, there's hundreds of programs that the government has set aside for tax credits. Some of them are refundable, some of them are non refundable. So some of those credits you're going to have to pay back, some of them go straight to the business. Some of them have certain uses for those tax credits. So a lot of the ones that we get involved with, the government has set aside a specific budget for these different tax credits. And really designed towards different areas of business, right? I know there's credits out there for startup credits. I know there's credits out there for, I'm hearing about it now, we haven't gotten involved in it yet, but there's credits out there now for self employed. Tax credits a big one that we really started focusing in on was the employee retention credit, right, which was pretty much any business that was impacted by the pandemic. And then now we're focusing a lot on the research and development credit, which is just like it says, any business investing. Kind of money into research and development. So there's a ton of different programs out there. The way that those programs I just mentioned work are, if a business qualifies, the government or the IRS is going to send that business a check for the credit that they qualify for. Now, most people don't understand that and realize that these credits are. Available to them until we talk to them or another company talks to them. And then they're seeing a check actually show up at the at the business that they're able to essentially do whatever they want with it. So that, that's the exciting area there. Obviously I do want to mention it's coming from the government. So this isn't rushed out, right? I might talk to you today, get you qualified. You may not see that credit for. Years later. Yeah, well, that's the other thing I was going to mention. When we started with the employee retention credit, it was, hey, you're going to receive this money in about four to six months, right? Then it, where the, where everything went today they put a cap out now or a a delay where if businesses were getting over 200, 000 in the employee retention credit. The government essentially put a pause on that. So we have people that were supposed to get the credit in four to six months. They've been waiting almost two years for that credit. So we preface that up front that this is is coming from the government. And it's almost like an extra Christmas present or an extra bonus when you get that credit in. But either way it is money or funding that tax credits that businesses are eligible for that oftentimes they don't realize that are available to them. Absolutely. So as far as an induction, you're talking whether that's like section 179 was like writing off a vehicle or some of these other. Yeah. So two, two completely different things, right? If you go, you may go out and buy and obviously I'm not a CPA or tax guy, just kind of know from a couple of things and being in the industry. You, you may go out and buy a work truck for your company, a 100, 000 truck, and I know the just talking about the section 179, right? I know that keeps changing, but you can go out and and get that deducted, right? So, I know some people can take that all at once. Sometimes that has to be broken out over five years. Really what that's doing, obviously, is Lowering your tax bill or tax liability, right? You may make 500, 000 a year. You may have a truck that you can write off for 100, 000. You may have 50, 000 in travel expenses for work, and you may have 50, 000 in other write offs. Okay, so now you have 200, 000 that you can deduct from that 500, 000 and you may have 100, 000 in travel expenses for work, and you may have 100, 000 in travel expenses for work. You're still paying taxes on let's just say that 300, 000. No, no tax credit for that or any any break there. Just obviously having everything buttoned up and being able to to take advantage of some of those tax breaks that are out there that that businesses can really take advantage of. So both options are great. I would recommend that you're doing both. I'd recommend that you get with a great CPA or accountant that understands everything about that and everything that you can actually legally write off of the business without having like these 87, 90, 000 IRS agents coming knocking on your door. But then the tax credits as well is another thing that just getting with, with a team like us or some of the other companies out there that can explain all these different credits available because they're both great programs and you can save yourself a lot of money either, way you go. Awesome. And, and Tom, how can how can somebody reach out and connect with you if they have questions about their personal credit or tax credits or how to get access to loans and other funding available? Awesome. Yeah, I mean, I may my phone may blow up with this, but I always say the easiest way to reach me is just reach me direct with a call or a text. It's 978 501 4142. And then I'm all over social media Thomas Bennett. And then I'll plug the just launched a podcast as well. And I had Josh had you on there as well, but that's the small business big moves podcast as well. So if you, you look around, you can probably find me out there and I'd love to connect with you all and at least have that Free consultation and just find out if there's anything available that makes sense to your business.