Oooh Friends!
This is the conversation the community wanted to have. So we’re going there - signs you may want to quit. Here’s what we’re jamming about:
Listen, we've been there and it’s not easy when you realize your job is no longer the right fit. This episode isn't just about walking away; it's about the power of choosing your path.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
Thanks for listening!
Hey! We love new friends! Connect with us!
Oooh Friends!
This is the conversation the community wanted to have. So we’re going there - signs you may want to quit. Here’s what we’re jamming about:
Listen, we've been there and it’s not easy when you realize your job is no longer the right fit. This episode isn't just about walking away; it's about the power of choosing your path.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
Thanks for listening!
Hey! We love new friends! Connect with us!
And as I'm sitting there, I got a call from the other place offering me the job to work for them, and this was incredibly unprofessional. And I looked around at my surroundings, evaluated my morning experience, got up, went over to the other young woman and said hey, so I'm quitting. And she said I'm sorry what I said, I'm quitting. Can you let him know I quit when he comes back this afternoon?
Francesca :Awesome, awesome Mel.
Mel :And then I just left. Hey friends, hey friends.
Francesca :Hey, welcome to your work friends. I'm Fran Chavka and I'm Mel, and we're two HR leaders with no filter, exposing the work stuff. You need to know, mel, what are we talking about today?
Mel :Signs that you should quit.
Francesca :Signs that you should quit. This is the conversation I'm having with most people around. Should I stay? Should I go?
Mel :Yeah, same I. Almost every conversation I have with friends or former colleagues, everyone is in this what seems like contemplation time of what am I doing? Is this the right thing for me, you know? Should I go somewhere else? Should I take some time off, Like everyone's in this reevaluation stage, it seems. So I thought it was a timely thing to talk about.
Francesca :Yeah, signs you should quit. A couple things that we wanted to jam about today and how we want to frame this conversation. One we want to tell our quitting stories because, mel, you've quit, I have I've quit, yeah yeah, we've been here, friends, we've been here, want to talk about signs that you should quit. We'll do a roast and a toast of those that have done this really well and those that maybe haven't. Mel, how does that sound? Sounds amazing. Sounds amazing.
Mel :I love it. I love it.
Francesca :I love it, so let's talk about it. Signs you should quit.
Mel :Well, you quit before. What's your quitting story?
Francesca :You know, I will tell you, I've quit many times and I've quit because I was running towards something I wanted the bigger job, the bigger pay, more scope, more challenge. I've quit because I didn't like my boss, quite honestly.
Mel :Yeah.
Francesca :I've quit because it just wasn't worth it to me anymore. I've thought about this before the show and I'll tell you when I look at some of the reasons why I've quit, when I look back on them sometimes I'm ashamed. Oh, really. Yeah, I was wondering why. Especially those times where I quit, when it was because I really was in a bad place, and then I realized the other day like those are all really fair reasons.
Mel :I think there's this stigma around quitting that I'd love to break. Quitting doesn't equal bad. You don't owe anyone a good reason to quit. Your own reasons for quitting are good enough.
Francesca :Yeah, I agree, I agree. So you know my reasons for quitting. Have run the gamut, I've had my own catharsis with them, if you will, but it is interesting to look back and be like oh wow, my reasons have been really varied.
Mel :See that I think that when you hear the word quit, it's like this internal automatic ooh, there's something juicy there. There isn't always something juicy, sometimes it's just I just feel like it, or this isn't for me and I've changed my mind. I think that's where, when people hear the word quit, they always think of those like elaborate quitting stories, like somebody sent an organization-wide email telling everyone to go to hell, kind of stuff. But it isn't always like that. Sometimes quitting is just resigning and deciding to take a different route, and that's okay too.
Francesca :Yeah, I think we definitely need to reframe this because, especially more and more now, voluntary turnover accounts for 70% of all employee turnover, yeah, and that number has grown significantly over the last 10 years. Ie more people are making moves. When we think about mobility, that's number one, and number two is to think about the reality of what's happening with work right now. Is work really should be seen as a transactional relationship 100%? This is not marriage, this is not family, right, it's a contract service for payment and if you reframe that, quitting can be seen as moving on to the next client, as opposed to something that is wrong with you, something that is, to your point, taboo or something that is bad Right?
Mel :Yeah, I think it was advice I think you may have given me a long time ago that said hey, works a project. Yeah, if you treat everything like a two to three year project, I think that's a healthy thing to do. I'll tell you two quitting stories. I'm pretty much a 10 year person. I have stayed with most of the organizations I worked with for a pretty significant chunk of time and, of course, moved on to different roles within those organizations. So I continue to grow and everything.
Mel :The first time I ever quit it is the first time I ever quit, I'm going to share this. It's my first quitting story. I was just a bee Ouch. Do you ever have one of those moments where you're laying in bed at night and you suddenly you're like, and you just remember something so freaking, embarrassing that you did in your 20s and you're like Jesus Christ, yeah, that's a daily occurrence for me?
Francesca :Yeah, A thousand percent. And then you walk around for a week like all right. If you don't have that you're lying, you're lying, you're totally lying.
Mel :Okay, so my first quitting story. I have some of those like oh my God. Moments when I think about it, because it's super embarrassing. When I look back on it, I'm also really proud of myself for the decision I made, because it was sound. I just graduated college and I was looking for a paralegal role and look, I graduated the spring after 9-11. The job market was trash Stucked.
Francesca :Unemployment was stucked. Yeah, yeah.
Mel :Like you're just starting out. You'll do anything to learn anything. I had been interviewing at a law firm that and it was a role I really wanted. And then I was interviewing to work with this judge and he was a well-known judge. Both good experiences. His would provide a lot of knowledge and connections and networking. At the time I thought I wanted to go to law school and then the other one was the same Good reasons.
Francesca :Yeah, really good reasons.
Mel :Just really smart people, and you're new, you're green, you're like I'll just give me anything, I'll do everything. The judge, though, didn't offer any benefits at all. What Like zero small shop. I mean, I think he had his own sort of private practice and he was a judge, so it was a small shop. So I was like, oh okay, like do I need it? I'm relatively healthy, I'm 22. Yeah, yeah.
Francesca :You don't really think about insurance at 22.
Mel :I could do this for a year and then see where I'm at, kind of thing. Like I was willing to bargain that he offered me a job first, I was like, well, I need to pay rent now and my own insurance and my car.
Francesca :You're an adult now you gotta pay those bills now.
Mel :Yeah, and I hadn't heard back from the other place yet, although I really wanted it and I accepted the job with the judge. I showed up to my first day and another young woman showed probably the same age as me, showed up with me and as we showed up we're like in suits, like dead serious.
Mel :Oh yeah, well, that's what it was like you know, you show up. The two women that must have worked for him previously were both packing up their desks. One had like the iced coffee, like just got a fresh dunk in, and was like swirling it, packing up her stuff and she's like good luck, you guys. And just left and she goes. He'll be back in the afternoon. He's with a client this morning. So we were like okay, I mean, should we be doing anything? Like no training whatsoever? So we're sitting across from each other. It's just super awkward. I'm trying to make conversation because I feel awkward and as I'm sitting there, I got a call from the other place offering me the job to work for them and this was incredibly unprofessional and I looked around at my surroundings, evaluated my morning experience, got up, went over to the other young woman and said hey, so I'm quitting. And she said I'm sorry what I said, I'm quitting. Can you let him know I quit when he comes back this afternoon?
Francesca :Awesome, awesome Mel.
Mel :And then I just left, I just left.
Francesca :That is one way you could do that.
Mel :Yes, Don't do what I did kids. Looking back it's so embarrassing and I'm like, come on, I at least could have stayed for the day. Do not do that. Do not do that.
Francesca :But yeah, to point, like, good on you for like paying attention to the red flag there. The idea of looking at this doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right that you're not getting Benny's. He didn't even show up that first day, correct and you have two other women that are out the door. Good choice of coffee, by the way. Obviously, they had a really good instincts by the coffee they were drinking, but it was you know. Trust yourself on that.
Mel :Yeah, I think I just. I just made a quick decision and was like no, I'm just going to, I'm calling, I've been here four hours, so impact is low. And then the second. You know, just early in my career, and I really wish I remember where I read this so I can give credit to who said it. The author said that People need three things to thrive at work, no matter whether you're working for yourself or you're working for someone else. Think of it like a three-legged stool. So if you're missing any one of these legs, something's got to change. So those three things are respect, relationships and meaningful work.
Francesca :Yeah, sounds right. Right, Not a lot to ask either. I don't think. I don't think that's a lot to ask?
Mel :Not at all. These are just basic needs, right? Human needs to thrive. So I do this thing quarterly when I'm in any job, any role, where I sit down and I think about what did I accomplish this quarter? And then I think about these three areas and I ask myself do I have these things or am I lacking? If I'm lacking, I ask myself is it something I have control over or is it something I don't have control over? If it's something I have control over, I then really push myself to think about okay, what am I going to do the next quarter to see if I can change this?
Mel :So relationships, if you don't have deep relationships, that's on me like to go out and try to deepen those relationships. But if after that next quarter I've done all of these actions to try to deepen relationships and it doesn't move the needle, it doesn't matter, there's just they're not into it, don't want to, there's no interest, then I know, hey, it's not something I can change and I can't be missing this leg. So it's probably a sign I need to move on. So I had a little bit of that going on this last time, in addition to being in a space where I'm really evaluating the trajectory of my career and what the common red threads have been and how do I want to be spending the remainder of my time and what I do. So I called my Nana. She's first generation immigrant parents, hard workers. She's always told me do not quit your job without having another job lined up. So there's that shame and guilt.
Francesca :And you were raised by your Nana. Yeah, that was the reason I heard her. So it's like, yeah, she's your person.
Mel :Yeah. Her two mantras are don't quit without having another job lined up and don't work with assholes.
Francesca :Those are her two pieces of advice by the way, listen, nana knows what's up.
Mel :Yeah.
Francesca :Those are both very good.
Mel :Great advice, great advice. But I did call her and kind of let her know what I was thinking and just feeling just a general sense of unhappiness in my current situation and also this pull to really reevaluate and that I was going to quit. And you know what she said I'm so proud of you, which I nearly fell off my chair. I was like, I'm sorry.
Francesca :What were you expecting? What were you expecting?
Mel :Do you have another job lined up?
Francesca :Yeah, like what do you do? And you can't leave without having another job, but she didn't.
Mel :But yeah, she was super supportive and when I spoke to my nearest friends about what my plans were, it was overwhelming support which felt so nice and it felt like this permission to be like OK. But again I want to go back and roast myself a little bit here, because I was holding on to those same stigmas around quitting which was forcing me to stay in an unhappy place personally and professionally, and it's OK to quit.
Francesca :It's almost like people are looking for a sign. They're looking for permission. I agree. And, by the way, one in three people in the United States quit and do not have a job lined up One in three. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.
Mel :Right.
Francesca :Both OK. People are looking for signs right Signs that they should quit and there are four that we see really often.
Mel :Yeah, what's the first one you say? Number one is mental health. I read a quote recently and it was like culture is how your, your employees, feel about work on Sunday.
Francesca :Oh, sunday's scary, yeah, sunday's scary.
Mel :If you have the Sunday scaries, if you're losing hair, if you're losing sleep, if your family and friends are saying, hey, we're concerned about you, you're not yourself. If you're having panic attacks and anxiety attacks from work, it's likely a sign that your mental health is being impacted and it's time to go or start planning to have an exit out of that company. I would say that's the biggest one for me is mental health Stress at the workplace is going up significantly Absolutely, I think.
Francesca :The other reason why people are quitting, too, is they're feeling a lack of respect at work. That was research that just came out from Pew Research Center. That's the third reason why people are quitting, after pay and development opportunities, it's lack of respect.
Mel :Yeah, Baseline table stakes expectation is just respecting one another in the workplace. I've seen it, I've experienced it and it feels like shit.
Francesca :Yeah, it does If you need permission. Because of mental health. I've had anxiety my entire life. It's just something I've had. I'm 44. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. When I grew up, you didn't talk about going to therapy.
Francesca :That was kind of like we didn't talk about it back in the day. I definitely grew up thinking something was wrong with me. There was something that I needed to hack it. I couldn't hack it A lot of times. Right now at work it is the system, it is not necessarily you. I need people to get that. Because the other thing I'm seeing quite a bit I am seeing a massive uptake in things like bullying, mobbing, people dying by suicide because they're getting bullied at work.
Mel :It's unacceptable.
Francesca :It's absolutely unacceptable and I just feel like there are environments and systems a lot of time in organizations not every organization, not every team within every organization that the system is causing the mental health issues. It is not that there's something wrong with you. It is that the system sucks. If you're finding that the system sucks and your mental health is suffering because of it, get out.
Mel :Yeah, I mean your environment certainly has triggers for these things, and so, as a fellow anxious person over here, I understand the sentiment, and there are just environments that are going to really increase that. For you. You know, I've been yelled at in meetings where I've left with my hands shaking because I'm like whoa, you know, like why would anyone talk to somebody like that? But that's not good for you. It's time to go if you're experiencing that. What, what else.
Francesca :Yeah. The second reason, after mental health, is honestly just better opportunities. Oh yeah, better pay, better job. You're running towards something that you're not going to be able to get at your organization. It takes about three to five years to get promoted. In the United States that's the average. So if you're looking to get promoted, if you're looking for to get more money as a result of a bigger job, for example, you're going to have to wait three to five years in most positions that you're in.
Francesca :Oh yeah, which is a long time for a lot of people. The stat that I heard the other day that I just wanted people to keep in mind again just as something that is interesting 55.5% of employers don't have a lot of money. They have a clear plan for advancement for their employer. Yeah, it's a little bit scary when you think about your career and your career trajectory. If you're sitting in a role and you're thinking, do I stay or do I take this opportunity that's right here and right now? Probability would say consider taking the job that is right here right now at another organization, because the likelihood that your organization is going to promote you within the next three to five years it's very slim, yeah, yeah.
Mel :It's very slim. I read in Forbes employees who stay at companies longer than two years get paid something like 50% less over their lifetime. Yeah, so if you're not jumping, you're quite literally losing money and leaving money on the tables and going back to the transactional piece if that percentage of employers don't have a plan for advancing their people. This is why you need to treat jobs like a transaction, like a contract, because don't rely on that employer to have the plan for you to move forward. You need to own your own career and your own future, yeah.
Francesca :On the career front, pay is the number one reason why someone's going to leave a job. That typically still is the number one reason Staying at your current employer year over year. If you're looking at a raise, you're probably going to get anywhere between maybe a 4% and 8% raise. Maybe If you jump to a different company, most likely you're going to get anywhere between like a 10% to 20% pay pump Absolutely. So if you do that over time let's say you hop jobs three to four times versus staying you can see how you're going to get to that 50% really quickly because, quite honestly, you're just going to get paid more if you jump Right Right. So number two better opportunity, better pay, yeah.
Mel :What about number three? For number three ethical concerns, mmm, just ethics. And it doesn't have to be juicy, it could just be how organization operates doesn't align with your values. You're uncomfortable with the way things are operating, you're uncomfortable with the processes, you're uncomfortable with the behaviors that are allowed within an organization. All of those things can fall under ethical concern. Or it could include something juicy like hey, we think they're doing something that's not good for their clients or their customers. They're paying attention to ethical things and understanding what's going on and your organization is important and it's also a good sign. If something doesn't feel right or kosher, then I think you probably should figure out a way out.
Francesca :It's important to think about is this aligning with your moral compass? We all have different ethos, different philosophies, even on something as basic as how to communicate with people, how to lead. If those don't seem like they're aligning with who you are at the core the majority of the time, that might be an opportunity for you to reevaluate how you're spending your time and where you're spending your time.
Mel :Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. What's number four? Number four is my favorite.
Francesca :Okay, because I think number four is one of those things where we probably wouldn't have put this on a list 10 years ago. Geez, because you want to Right, because you want to Listen, friends, if you're looking for that permission, you don't need it. If you want to move, if you feel like now's the time to go, if you feel like you just want to break, if you feel like you want to just spend time with your kids or take care of your parents, or you want to, you want to. It doesn't matter.
Mel :It's because you want to Right Right, you don't owe anyone an explanation. No, yeah, because you don't have to be a good person for making that, because your happiness is important. Look, we don't get a do over in life. I know during COVID, everything was called the Great Resignation. I think it was probably more of a great reprioritization for a lot of people and how they want to spend their time. Yeah, because it was a microscope to everybody at how little time we all get in this life, and wealth equals owning your time and what you do with it. I think there's a huge evaluation happening for folks around that and that's okay. So it's okay, it's okay.
Francesca :So those are the four reasons that you may want to quit. Right your mental health and the tank. Yeah, you get a better gig, better pay.
Mel :Yeah.
Francesca :You aren't aligning with the moral or ethical compass of your org. And number four no, what is it? Uh, cause you just feel like it. You just feel like it, yeah.
Mel :There's a lot of good material out there. As I was evaluating the second time whether or not I should quit, what helped me was reading other people's stories. And listening to other people's stories, I mean, obviously we do this podcast, so I'm a huge fan of podcasts but also books, and a couple came across for me that I'd love to share.
Francesca :And then I love to share the one question I asked myself. Oh good, yeah, okay.
Mel :Okay, well, a couple of things. I read Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg, but I also loved the book Lean Out by Tierra Henley, which was more around her personal story of burning out, quitting her job, exploring different ways of really getting out of the hustling grind, and so highly recommend that book. There's also a book called the Crossroads of Should and Must, finding and following your passion, by El Luna, and this is all about really understanding what differentiates between what you feel you should be doing and what you must do to fulfill your true calling for yourself. So because I think and we've touched on this a little bit we all carry this burden of what everyone else thinks we should be doing, but what really matters is what we think we should be doing, I really loved this read. If you're like I'm not a reader, I just want to listen to personal stories.
Mel :There are a couple of defunct podcasts, it seems out there now because some of the last episodes were 2022. So why I Quit, by Dave Phalen, was all about real stories of people who quit their nine to five jobs just in search of something different. So they go into the decisions they made, the challenges they faced, their journeys post quitting and just lessons learned. So if you're on the fence, highly recommend that. And then NPR did a really NPR has a podcast called Life Kit. Highly recommend it. And they did an episode on quitting your job the right way. So it's just practical advice on how to quit your job effectively, maintaining professionalism, leaving a positive legacy and setting yourself up for success. Highly recommend that.
Francesca :And if you're a modern family fan, which I know like the TV show Modern Family.
Mel :Yeah, Julie Bowen, who plays the mom on Modern.
Francesca :Family, isn't she great yeah?
Mel :She started a podcast with Chad Sanders called Quitters the Quitters podcast. They have guests that come on to speak about what they left behind in order to move forward, and I think that's the important message yes, you're leaving something behind, but you're still moving forward. Things aren't halting. So those are my little recommendations. I love those. I love those. What do you ask yourself?
Francesca :I think at the end of the day, the number one thing to ask yourself is what do I really want? If I'm really honest with myself, what do I really want? And I think sometimes that answer can be really scary because it's such a departure from where you are today, but it's honest and it will always lead you in the direction forward that you're supposed to go. I share that only because I think a lot of times we get caught up in the sheds on the codes and the shame. Yes, but all you really need to be doing is following what you want to be doing.
Mel :Yeah, I love that sentiment Moving away from expectations from others, expectations from society. I think we all carry some of that Like, this is where I need to be in my career. I should have met this milestone or this milestone and pausing to really ask yourself but are those important to me?
Francesca :It's such a good question, so I love that yeah, you want to do a little roast and toast to see?
Mel :Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's roast and toast.
Francesca :Yeah, yeah, you want to go with roast first and then I'll come back with the Tuesday.
Mel :Yes, yes, I'm just going to roast anybody who is still judging others who quit. You don't know their story and you can't really pass judgment on why people quit. Everyone has a personal reason. So I think we all hold those antiquated stigmas within us. So I would say, if you're still doing that, I'm roasting you and time to let it go.
Francesca :Let it go. Let it go. Yeah, it's time for a new day. It's time for a new day for sure, absolutely. Who are you testing?
Francesca :All right, so listen, I always think it's good to, when you leave whatever chapter you're leaving behind, to leave at least at neutral and not completely burn a bridge. But I'll tell you, let me be real honest. Let me be really honest there, mel, we all have those jobs or people that we've left and you just want to burn that bridge. And there's a story of a guy that has lived rent-free in my head for the last several years and I'm toasting him, not in the way that he left the organization, but just because I really appreciate being able to think about this story and just have some joy in it, because it was just such an epic quitting story and I thought let's just celebrate Steven Slater today because he quit in the way that sometimes we all want to quit, but no, we shouldn't. But he did it and I just thank him for the image that will live rent-free in my head. Okay, steven Slater was a flight attendant for JetBlit. Oh, it's coming back.
Mel :Yeah, back in 2010.
Francesca :And listen, I think flight attendants, gate agents, have some of the hardest jobs.
Mel :Oh gosh, I mean yeah, the stuff they have to deal with. I don't mean, yeah, that was in person.
Francesca :Plus, by the way and this is a gripe with me for flight attendants outside of Delta, flight attendants in the United States do not get paid for boarding, so don't be a dick to your flight attendant. They have to work for free.
Mel :Basically, that's another pod Going back to basic respect as a big client at work. Pay someone for your time, okay.
Francesca :Moving on Anyway. Steven Slater, JetBlue flight attendant, in 2010, got so upset by a super rude customer on a plane that he decided to hold the plane's emergency escape, shoot and slide down into freedom. He was like he had charges brought against him and all this good jazz, but he quit in the most epic way and in a way that I think every one of us has probably had a job where we wanted to be like bye-bye.
Mel :You know, I think it's a worthwhile toast because he was just true to himself. Yeah, yeah.
Francesca :It's just, it was like he had been a flight attendant for 20 years. He had just had it hit his limit. It was just God, yeah. So I just I think of you, steven Slater, I see you, steven Slater, and, yeah, a little toast to him today, just a little toast.
Mel :I mean that quitting story may have been the little match that started to create this movement of everyone starting to really evaluate where they want to be.
Francesca :Little little butterfly effect there Maybe Right, maybe Maybe. So toast to you Very good one.
Mel :Yeah, I love it, I love it.
Francesca :Well, mel, amazing to talk with you today, as always, you too. This has been delightful. Yeah, we'll be back next week with New Week, new Headlines. Thanks so much for joining us today. Like and subscribe. Wherever you listen to podcasts. You can come over and say hi to us on the tiktoks and LinkedIn community. It is up at yourworkfriendscom. We're always posting stuff on there and if you found this episode helpful, share with your work friends. Thanks, friend. Thanks, friend, bye.