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Your Work Friends
New Week, New Headlines: The Ageism Paradox: Young Women Bear the Brunt, The $15K Hidden Cost of RTO & Why Companies Are Offering Divorce Benefits
In this week's workplace headlines, dive into the groundbreaking 2024 McKinsey & Lean In Women in the Workplace report revealing young women face twice the ageism as their male peers. Learn why it will take 50 years to reach pay parity and discover the shocking real cost of return-to-office mandates - averaging $1,200 monthly per employee. Plus, explore why progressive companies are adding divorce support as their newest employee benefit.
We break down these critical workplace trends and share their personal experiences navigating corporate America's gender dynamics.
Key topics:
- Latest Women in Workplace Report findings
- The true cost of RTO policies
- Divorce support is the hottest new employee benefit
- Young women's experiences with workplace ageism
- Corporate America's progress toward gender parity
Suggested Tags: #WomenInWorkplace #WorkplaceEquity #CareerAdvice #ReturnToOffice #EmployeeBenefits #WorkplaceCulture #GenderEquality #CareerDevelopment #WorkLifeBalance #CorporateCulture
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
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Another woman talked about being actively coached in the workplace to appear older by older female colleagues.
Speaker 2:That happened to me. That happened to me too. I was told like you need to sound less West Coast, that's the way they put it.
Speaker 1:I was also told to make sure my hair was more of a darker brown and to get rid of any blonde what's?
Speaker 2:going on, mel. What's up, friend? Hi, hi, how was the weekend? How was the weekend?
Speaker 1:It's beautiful in New England right now. It's also that weird time where every New Englander is in a competition to see who can hold out from turning their heat on. But I made Robbie turn the heat on. I will not shiver. You keep a cold house, what do?
Speaker 2:you do For a batch of honor. Yeah, I know You're like it hits 55. You're like yeah time to.
Speaker 1:I do the best I can, I can, I layer up. I got all the fuzzy socks, all the good things, but I couldn't beat it. But it's gorgeous here right now. It's so nice we're at the height of fall, but it was relaxing. I didn't really do much of anything, I just got some sunshine on my face and read some books proud of you.
Speaker 2:Proud of you, that's good. You have to have weekends like that I have the reminder from a friend. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sign off. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Get off the phone, back away from the computer. Yeah, I think it's good If you're someone that works on the weekends, even if it's just to check in.
Speaker 1:I think it's good to have an accountability partner. I appreciate you. How was your weekend?
Speaker 2:Good, I wanted to do this in Portland for a long time. They how was your weekend? Good, I wanted to do this in portland for a long time. They have this thing called the pumpkin regatta, where they core out ginormous pumpkins and then race them around. Just, it's funny, you just have to see it. You just have to see it. And there are clearly people in there that know how to race. And then jeff and I were like how do you train for that? Because you can't just your. Your boat is a pumpkin you're balancing in the pumpkin.
Speaker 1:That doesn't just. It's a lot of trust in a hollow pumpkin. A lot of trust pumpkins grow differently.
Speaker 2:You can't that feel like listen.
Speaker 1:Where do you, where do you procure a giant pumpkin?
Speaker 2:for people like grow them, they grow them all year round. They grow your own pumpkin. You fashion your own boat. I don't know if you leave some of the schmutz in for weight at the bottom.
Speaker 1:I'm sure there's a whole science behind this but so what I'm hearing is your work, friends, is definitely planting a pumpkin patch when I'm there, so we can do this race next year.
Speaker 2:People dress up too. I had 20 bucks on the nun. There was, like the break, Ray Gunn, the break dancer from the yeah, oh, someone dressed up. Someone dressed up. These are all people. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Ray Gunn was there. Oh my God, now I'm onto this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say it's a fall from grace? It is not. It is a lateral move. We're back with new week, new headlines. Mel, what are you talking about today?
Speaker 1:Touching on the latest women in the workplace report, which is the combo report by Lean In and McKinsey, and the headline here is the workplace doesn't take young women seriously. And now they're pushing back. Yeah, young women, women I love it and then I have some wtf news relating back to this woman in the workplace report around reaching parity for women, but also the cost of rto from work life, which came out with a new cost number that they have, and what that means for employees.
Speaker 2:Oh, all right, Cool. I want to talk about the hottest new employee benefit divorce, yes, divorce. Workplaces are seeing a very positive impact on helping their employees through divorce. I want to talk about why, what it looks like and you probably already have support for your divorce under the hood of some of your benefits that already exist. Let's talk about it.
Speaker 1:Do you want to start with WTF? Yeah, yeah, I will say the biggest thing for me. So I spent time reading the Women in the Workplace report. The biggest thing for me. So I spent time reading the Women in the Workplace report, the headline despite progress, it will take almost 50 years to reach parity for all women in corporate America.
Speaker 2:Like pay parity. Basically, we're paid the same as men. Yeah, got it.
Speaker 1:You and I will be dead when that happens, hopefully Over our dead bodies. Yeah, over our dead bodies. What they were saying is at the current pace, they know it will take 22 years to reach pay parity for white women, and more than twice as long for women of color specifically, and this is based on the assumption that orgs can actually keep the momentum they've experienced over the past 10 years, with the number of women in senior leadership steadily increasing. They did know that. There are signs, though, that the pipeline to maintain that may not be as healthy as the numbers suggest, and you and I have talked about this around. Women are leaving corporate America in droves, right we?
Speaker 2:talked about this a few episodes back right. Executive women are like peace out.
Speaker 1:homie Corporate isn't good to them. We also talked about this a few episodes back. That again, women are not leaving in mass exodus for the reasons that we've always been told. It's long been assumed and told to everybody that women step away for family obligations, or women are not asking for promotions like men, and these are the main reasons we don't see them in leadership because they've left the workforce for a period and have come back, or they're just not asking for these things. But in reality it's not for either of those reasons. It's because the environment doesn't support them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I believe that I believe that that is that they end this report with. We should be cautiously optimistic about the future if it weren't for one glaring finding in this year's study a company's commitment to diversity declining. And at a moment when companies should be doubling down on their efforts, there are early signs they are pulling back. Their major call to action was for orgs to stay as ambitious and committed to women as women have been to their jobs, noting that they believe corporate America can do better and we know women deserve better. I was like heck, yeah, thanks for making that formal statement. The other WTF news cost of RTO. Want to take a guess on the average daily cost for workers?
Speaker 1:the average daily cost for workers who've been asked to return to the office.
Speaker 2:I feel like we talked about this before and it was somewhere around 50 bucks or something like that. Is that right it was? It was 50, which 50 bucks is a lot of money, a lot of money.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a lot of money. Workers are now spending, on average, $61 per day. If they have to return to the office, everything from transportation costs on average, that's around $27. Getting a coffee or breakfast $10. If you're getting lunch, $15. So all of these costs, which seem small when they're independent, collectively are averaging to be about $61 per day, meaning that's an additional $300 per week cost for those who are required to go back into the office, which equals out to about $1,200 a month. This survey was conducted by Owl Labs and they interviewed over 2,000 US workers who are now RTO five days a week, and there was an emphasis here on things we commonly talk about, which is exploring hybrid flexibility, how this is impacting your workers, exploring your benefits and the subsidies that you are going to provide in order to cover this new cost of living expense for your employees.
Speaker 2:That's such a hit. When you think about $1,200 a month, you're thinking like 15K a year, almost right. That you're paying out of pocket just to commute to work is a huge hit when most people in this country are making less than $70,000 a year, right.
Speaker 1:Their big message there was employers who are demanding RTO need to consider these expenses, and you can't forget about the subsidies and pay that you need to supplement in order to support your employees. Yeah, woof.
Speaker 2:I know so. Fast Company had an article this week about divorce. Your newest employee benefit may be supporting you through your divorce. This caught my eye just because divorce, honestly, is something that you and I have both worked with people that have gotten divorced, that are going through divorce while they're working.
Speaker 1:That's not pretty. No, it's a toll. It takes a toll financially, mentally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot, and when you talk to people that have gone through it to your very good point the legal aspect of it, the legal aspect of it, the financial aspect of it, the mental health aspect of it, the grief aspect of it my fun time is when I watch people go through the re-entry and they're dating 500 people. There's a whole thing that's happening with people when they're going through a divorce, coming out of a divorce, et cetera. But what also happens for employers is there's a massive productivity hit.
Speaker 2:Oh of course, it's one of an employee's toughest transitions to go through. Again, it's going to have a massive impact on the workforce right, Especially when people are in management positions. 40% of employees experience a significant productivity dip when they go through a divorce Because, when you're thinking about all the legal proceedings you need to go through any kind of child custody thing. It is just insane.
Speaker 1:Yeah, divorces can get really ugly.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I can imagine here's the thing really forward thinking employers are starting to partner with organizations like Hello Divorce, for example, that offer divorce coaches for people to help navigate, again, one of the toughest transitions that they'll go through, and a time where you're going to have a pretty massive productivity dip, and what organizations are probably trying to do is shorten that productivity dip. So what exactly is divorce support, you might be asking, and how could this show up in your employee benefit package? It can come in the form of those divorce coaches. Those are specialists that are helping employees navigate the legal, the financial, the emotional aspects of divorce. They're not going to be your legal counsel, but they'll help you navigate it right, because it's a black hole.
Speaker 2:Mental health services as well, access to therapy, counseling sessions tailored to divorce-related stress, things like financial assistance. For instance, there's a platform called SupportPay that streamlined co-parenting expenses and child support, which is pretty cool and flexible work schedules right that allow employees the time they need for legal meetings or counseling during work hours. Those are all ways that companies can support employees while they're going through a divorce. Why they might be doing this is something that I do want to unpack. Why do you think companies might want to offer this as a benefit. What's in it for them?
Speaker 1:It comes down to what you said. It's having an engaged workforce and if they're pulled away from these other things, it's going to take a huge hit to morale. It takes a hit to productivity retention. They can retain those employees.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Because typically, and look, I just cut bangs, but I didn't go through a divorce. What happens when this shit happens? You're like I'm changing my hair, I'm doing this, and that might also include changing your job because you're like I just need a fresh everything when people are going through these big life moments by the way, I cut my bangs on my own no major life event.
Speaker 2:All of those things. It's just really good for business. To your point, productivity drops we said this earlier a drop 40% in the first six months of someone getting a divorce. A drop 40% in the first six months of someone getting a divorce. It can persist for up to five years Because again, it's such a traumatic thing to go through Absentee and turnover, divorce-related stress and all the meetings you go through. Employees take an average of 21 additional days off on average within the first year. That's 2.6 times more than the average worker's absenteeism. And the other thing is the mental health and retention.
Speaker 2:To your point, offering divorce support can help retain your top talent. Just period, point blank. Yeah, it shows you're good at shit. Absolutely Quick things. Just to inside scoop here If you are going through a divorce, if you're thinking about going through a divorce number one, this is more common than you think. You may not realize it, but companies have been rolling out divorce benefits as part of broader wellness programs. Even if it's not advertised, I would check in in your benefits packages. It might be buried underneath there. You could protect your career as well. Divorce is a very heavy emotional toll on folks. This is a professional lifeline for you. So if your company offers these types of things, please feel free to take advantage of them. They're there for you, right and honestly. Companies see this as a win for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Lean into your resources and your community for stuff like this. It's like super important. So if you have access to those types of resources, a hundred percent you should use them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, divorce. Who knew, who knew.
Speaker 1:Young women in the workplace. All right, the workplace doesn't take young women seriously. Now they're pushing back. This was an article written by Carolyn Fairchild on girlbosscom. She's the editor-in-chief over at Lean In, and McKinsey recently put out the latest Women in the Workplace report. It's their 10th report, so they've been studying this for over a decade now, so they're getting some really good information. What are the headlines here? Women at all ages experience ageism, no surprise. And young women experience it the most of any group of workers.
Speaker 2:Young women.
Speaker 1:Young women. 50% of women under the age of 30 say their age has had a negative impact on their careers. Young women are also twice as likely as young men to have their co-workers call attention to their age unnecessarily, and you and I have talked about this issue multiple times from the last report, which was the call out of the broken rung, where women are far less likely than men men promoted to manager. Only 81 women were promoted. Young women are also less likely than men to be hired into entry-level roles.
Speaker 2:Get out of the city.
Speaker 1:Yep. They also note that women overall are far more likely than men to deal with comments and actions that undermine their skills and expertise. Younger women are twice as likely as younger men to have their judgment question in their primary area of expertise. They are also more likely to be mistaken for someone at a much lower level than they actually are. I have a question for you, Francesco. Have you ever experienced this as a young woman?
Speaker 2:I'm laughing because I've experienced all of those things, all of those things. It was very all of the above multiple times a year multiple times a year. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's from the beginning of our careers through now. Like I, I don't think I've ever experienced a time where I didn't experience some level of ageism in the workplace. There's a lot of things that happen. It's in the language that people use when they speak to you. It's in the assignments that they give to you, which are typically lower level tasks. I've I have a laundry list of things I've experienced and we'd love to hear from our listeners what have you experienced as a woman in the workplace?
Speaker 2:When I think about some of the people that I've worked with that have just been absolute beasts, like beasts from a performance perspective, from a smarts perspective.
Speaker 1:Young women. Yeah yeah, women are like ambitious, I want to get into it. So they interviewed women to see what are some of the things that they experienced, and you and I have our stories. I'd love to hear our listener stories, but I'll share a couple of what they have here. One woman noted that, because of her age, she was asked to be the person that figures out this quote, unquote, tiktok thing. Another woman referred a male friend so a personal friend of hers to her organization for her same job level in a different department. She later found out that, although they are same education, same level of experience, his starting salary was significantly higher than hers and, although he applied for the same level role, he was offered a more senior position. Another woman talked about being actively coached in the workplace to appear older by older female colleagues.
Speaker 2:That happened to me. That happened to me too. I was told like you need to sound less West Coast, that's the way they put it.
Speaker 1:I was also told to make sure my hair was more of a darker brown and to get rid of any blonde.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:What the fuck Do you know that? I did it and I actually made a difference. I ended up getting a weird job offer after that. It's interesting because that's what older women have experienced. These have been their coping mechanisms and now a new generation of women are coming up and being offered the same advice that those women were told by other women who were told, who had to just survive in these environments.
Speaker 1:When you think back to 60s, 70s, 80s- 90s even early 2000s, when you and I started, it was like very different workplaces. So now it's just this continuing. You need to change everything about yourself to fit in. They've also been told to diminish their personality. One woman noted she was told to make sure she doesn't bring girlish energy when showing enthusiasm about the work and to be less cheerful, to talk less and be more. But we know that women experience the double bias, right. So then you become the bitch on the team. If you adopt those things, how exhausted are we Okay? Another woman noted that when being on site with the team she leads, people automatically defer to one of her male colleagues, assuming he is leading, and in fact in one instance when she was directing questions to someone on her project, that person would only respond to the male on her team, even after that male team member reminded him she was the lead.
Speaker 2:That's happened to me multiple times Happens to me too. Yeah, I know, it's just it's.
Speaker 1:Damn. Are we all exhausted yet?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this does not surprise me.
Speaker 1:Like this report doesn't share any new news.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, and that's what pisses me off about it. It's just you guys. Come on, this is insane.
Speaker 1:It's just confirmation, all right. So the so what? Ageism is an issue for all sexes, we know that. But for young women in particular, this can have potentially long-term damaging effects on their career. The article noted women reporting on missing out on promotions, pay raises and other opportunities for advancement. In the article, dr Amy Diehl, a gender equity researcher and author of Glass Walls, noted quote in the workplace, referring to someone's young age can seem like a compliment, but it's incredibly diminishing. For women, it's all a way of pointing out that, unlike the men, she doesn't belong at work, and if she belongs, she really just belongs in support roles, not leadership position. They also emphasized that often it's assumed that women aren't promoted due to not asking stepping away from work, and I just called this out on the WTF news. But again, it's the bias against women, including ageism, that is the main driver of their promotion barriers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is my thing. What we're doing is we're letting organizations off the hook every time. We're like, oh, women are leaving because of the child debrearing or they're not asking for it, so we're putting it on women as opposed to saying no. We need to do a better job of redoing how this happens.
Speaker 1:Or, if women ask for it, they're too ambitious, yeah, they're labeled as such and shot down, and you and I both experienced this in the workplace. I've spoken to tons of friends, family clients even, who've experienced this in the workplace, and you have to constantly have this balance of perfectionism. That's why that Barbie speech resonates so much with all women, because you're supposed to be everything to everybody and so some other things that I wanted to call out here. Despite the demoralizing experience young women are having in the workplace, the report found that young women under the age of 30 still remain highly ambitious, and we've talked about women in mid-career or late career who are like peacing out because they are finally exhausted. But these young women, just like we were at one point, are still super ambitious because they're like no, we're going to cut through the noise. They're also most committed to advancing gender and racial diversity out of any other group of employees. They're also most likely to take on allyship action to support women of color. So women in general are ambitious, they want to do the work, they're committed to doing their work, but they're being cut off as early as entry-level positions.
Speaker 1:So now what? It's a huge cultural shift, right? Just in the US. We live in a misogynistic, patriarchal culture. There's been a lot of growth, but there's also a lot of setbacks. It's an upcoming election in just a few weeks, so your vote does make decisions for where directions of things like this go, and right now, the majority of women are carrying the load. Actions to consider. Be an advocate for young women. Speak up for them, sponsor them, give them opportunities to lead and run with things. Speak up when you hear demoralizing language when it comes to age. Things like when you reach my age seem harmless, but fact it isn't. That's a loaded statement that assumes the person you're speaking to does not have the same experience or skills that you have. Then leaders need to train employees on not just gender and racial bias, but age bias as well. Fyi, they pointed out that age is rarely brought up in bias training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't like to talk about it, do we? Yeah? Or we talk about it as like the 60 year old boomer type of thing, as opposed to what also happens and it honestly all. Everything goes both ways. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1:It's just yeah, it's just so interesting. And I remember I had someone just last year interesting, and I remember I had someone just last year but casual, like casual networking conversation, and they made the comment like when you reach my age, you will have blank right. And I'm looking at them and I was like I think we are the same age. So I was like, oh, I'm 44. How old are you? And they were like, oh, I'm 43. I was like, oh, so I'm actually older than you Just got some good night cream, retinol baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. Skins look good.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I think it's a funny story. I don't hold it against that person, obviously, but it's just men, women alike, right, have the awareness of how your language perpetuates this in the workplace and just in society as a whole. And, quite honestly, we should be trusting young people more. They have fresh thinking, fresh ideas and, quite honestly, they're not as jaded as folks who've been through it. So tap into that energy. There's so much goodness and richness there. It's like why not tap into it, and young women in particular? Let's help the next generation not experience the same thing that so many of us have already experienced. Hey, friends, this episode of your Work, friends, was hosted by Francesca Ranieri and myself, mel Plett.
Speaker 2:This episode was produced and edited by Mel Plett and myself, Francesca Ranieri.
Speaker 1:Our theme music is by Pink Zebra and you can follow us over on all of our social media platforms Instagram, tiktok, youtube and, if you're so inclined, join us over on LinkedIn and our large and growing community, and you can email us at friend at your work, friendscom, or visit us on your work, friendscom. Also, folks, please like, subscribe and leave a review. If you enjoyed this episode, and if you really enjoyed it, please share with a work friend or two. Bye.