Your Work Friends | Fresh Insights on the Now and Next of Work
We break down the now and next of work. You stay ahead.
Its not just you - work is bonkers. Burnout is high, trust is low, and everything is changing at breakneck speed.
Friend-to-friend? We get it. We're in it. And we're here to guide you through it.
We’re two leadership insiders—and real-life friends—who’ve led teams, sat in the tough seats, and know first hand how fast, complex, and personal work has become.
Every week, we break down what’s happening at work and to work, taking you behind the scenes of what's happening now, and preparing you for what you'll see in 6 months. We're bringing you breaking news, workplace trends, and interviews with top experts shaping the future of work. We cover what’s changing so you don’t get left behind.
Join us for smart, unfiltered (with the occasional f*bomb or two) conversations about how work is evolving and what you can do about it.
Great for:
• Employees rethinking their careers and trying to navigate what comes next
• People leaders shaping culture and driving change while getting the work done
• Orgs wanting to build smarter, more profitable, more human workplaces
• Anyone craving more honest and practical conversations about the future of work
Topics we cover:
Future of work, leadership, workplace culture, team dynamics, change management, human-centered strategy, layoffs, burnout, performance, career growth, workplace news, workplace humor, and more.
Your Work Friends | Fresh Insights on the Now and Next of Work
New Week, New Headlines: Dying at Work, The Job Market Flatlines, Hugging Your Job & Google’s 20,000 Apprenticeships
New Week, New Headlines: Burnout turns deadly at Microsoft, the U.S. job market flatlines, “job huggers” cling to stability, and Salesforce cuts while Google opens 20,000 apprenticeships. What it all means for how you work, earn, and lead.
This week we’re covering four stories shaping how you work, earn, and lead:
- Dying at Work. A Microsoft employee died on campus at 35. What it reveals about the way we normalize overwork, and the guardrails leaders should be setting now.
- The job market flatlines. August added only 22,000 jobs. Why Wall Street cheered, what it means if you’re working or searching, and how to protect yourself in a cooling market.
- From hopping to hugging. Quitting is at its lowest since 2018. Why employees are clinging to stability, why leaders shouldn’t confuse it with loyalty, and what to do instead.
- AI cuts vs. access wins. Salesforce shed 4,000 jobs while Google announced 20,000 paid apprenticeships with no degree required. What that says about the real future of work.
👉 If you want to stay ahead of the forces reshaping work—from burnout to layoffs to new pathways in—you’ll want this week’s headlines in your feed.
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
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I'm done with leaders saying AI won't get rid of jobs, it will change jobs, and then very clearly doing the exact opposite of that. The exact opposite of that.
Speaker 2:We are your work friends, where we break down the now and next of work, so you stay ahead.
Speaker 1:I'm Mel Plett and I am Francesca Ranieri. Can I tell you the funniest story on the face of the planet First day of school, elementary school. Yeah, the news is going to be there. It's an old school and on the side of the school there's this large dumpster. Apparently somebody thought it would be funny, or somebody set fire to the dumpster outside of the school there was a literal dumpster fire.
Speaker 1:That happened like 15 minutes before the news crews got there. It looked like that meme which is, by the way, my favorite meme on the face of the planet the dumpster fire going down the river. This thing was blue, it literally looked like a dumpster fire and I was just like is this like the omen, or the funniest thing on the planet?
Speaker 2:We definitely have to repurpose that photo. What a great way to start a first day of school. Yeah, we've been busy over here at your work. Friends Just closed out Q3. And folks, if you missed it, we had this mega lineup of guest experts in Q3. We met with Dr Melissa Clark. She just wrote a book called Never Not Working. It addresses our societal workaholism problem how to identify if you're a workaholic. She does give you systems for how to recover Such a good episode. We also met with Karthik Ramana, who is at Oxford University. He wrote a book about leading through the age of outrage.
Speaker 1:He is giving excellent tips on leading through polarizing times, as we are all of us about that but how organizations can do that, and we met with JP Elliott, who is the host of the Future of HR podcast. He also runs a thing called Next Gen HR Accelerator which helps folks in HR develop their capabilities to lead the future of HR. We also did a pod swap with him so you can hear us on the Future of HR talking about reciprocal work, how to really improve the boss employee relationship. Fun fact friends, it is a relationship, it is mutual, and when you get it right and healthy you can improve your performance by almost 61%. So it's worth looking into. Get that healthy, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:All fun conversations.
Speaker 1:And if you just joined us, mel and I are two people strategists. We do people strategy for a living and our whole philosophy is to make sure strategy's super clear, it's really durable, and we're always trying to bet on humanity. You'll hear that come through in the way that we talk about work, the way we think about work, because we know that's how work works.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:All right, let's get into it. We're back with the new week, new headlines. My main story is about the Microsoft employee that died at work this week. My FIA is Google just announced 20,000 apprenticeship programs and my WTF is Salesforce, cutting 4,000 support roles. Right after Mark Benioff said AI is not going to be about big mass layoffs. That's a lie. No, he lied.
Speaker 2:The data would show differently. All right, I'm also talking about two big headlines the US labor market stall, because the jobs report just came out for August and it's abysmal. And from Korn Ferry, that's talking about what to do with all the job huggers, man these terms. Yeah, I know We'll get into it.
Speaker 1:Palo Alto Daily Post reported that a Microsoft employee in their Mountain View California office died while at work. Prateek Pandley, who was 35, scanned his badge in at 7.50 pm and was found face down at 2 am on campus August 20th, and this is not the first story We've talked about somebody dying at work.
Speaker 2:What was it Almost a year ago? Yeah, Bank of America right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, panley had told his roommates and colleagues that he was under a lot of stress. He was juggling multiple projects at the same time. He had no known health issues and his family talks about how he was super jubilant, hardworking and successful. His roommates talk about how he loved to play soccer and ping pong and cricket and overall he was a super positive person. I feel like we're going to hear more and more of this because, like everything, the pendulum has absolutely swung to people feeling like they have to hold onto their jobs. I know we will talk about that in a little bit, but it's also swung back to do your fricking job, get it done or you can be replaced. And that's very much the sentiment that we're hearing weekly. And it shines the light on a bigger piece that we are normalizing burnout, especially in tech, and treating people like they have infinite bandwidth, and it creates a massive, in my mind, moral risk and a business risk because when people leave or when people die, your reputation of your brand will suffer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's already a trend. Yeah, think about it that way. This should not be the trend. And that's just overworking in general, nevermind the alleged contribution to deaths potentially. I think leaders have a responsibility to care for their people. Again, betting on humanity. Our whole mantra is the care. Your greatest responsibility is the care for their people. Again, betting on humanity, our whole mantra is the care your greatest responsibility is the care for your employees. In all of these workplaces, there needs to be care.
Speaker 2:About a year ago, there was that American Heart Association report that came out about. There were two findings One working more than 50 hours a week was actually contributing to stress on your heart and increased risk of strokes, heart attack, et cetera. The other piece was they found working more than 50 hours a week actually was a huge decline in productivity efficiency. So people aren't even doing their best work. When you overwork them, they're actually compromising a lot of things, which is in itself, a huge business risk. These are people, these are not machines, these are not robots, and everyone deserves to have boundaries with their personal life.
Speaker 1:Right now what I'd love to see more organizations do, and these are very small tactics, but I'm looking for them because the name of the game for the best quality work, the best symbiotic relationship of people in work, is not about chasing hours. It's more around setting things like durability guardrails, workload on its mandatory reset weeks, making things like energy metrics which, by the way, you can track all of this stuff just as important as uptime or bug counts. There's no reason why an organization can't help their employees set durability guardrails. I also think there's a cultural durability guardrail, which is we're not architecting the work so that you have to work more than 50 hours a week on average. Yes, there will always be ebbs and flows, I get that but we're not doing any of this right now and we're just expecting everybody to work 70, 80, 100 hours a week. It is unsustainable and it is literally killing people.
Speaker 2:My fear is we're leaning into. This is the norm, and the threat of your livelihood is held over people's heads, so they have no choice or they don't feel safe creating boundaries that, quite frankly, they should feel really confident building.
Speaker 1:I believe, is what exactly is going on, not in all organizations. We see some organizations where they are very crisp about durability, around boundaries, around resetting, but when you get into a lot of these organizations, they're not or they're only happening in pockets, and it's just for the better that we make this much more standard. Listen, if you're an employee, please don't assume that your company is going to be protecting you. They're just not. This isn't Mel and Francesca ganging up on employers. It's not that. It's just that your health is your responsibility and making sure that you're tracking your own hours, you're flagging your unhealthy workloads, you're documenting your concerns. You're bringing that to your manager, if you can do that. The climate is shifting and voices are harder to dismiss and regulators may or may not be there, at least for the next few years, because we're just seeing quite a bit of deregulation in any kind of employee advocacy space. But the key headline here is protect yourself and if your company culture isn't protecting you.
Speaker 2:If you're a team leader, create that environment. Check in with your people. How are they doing? How are they holding up Like where can you reduce those pockets of potential burnout? Yes, I love that. My condolences to his loved ones.
Speaker 1:I know it just. You look at his picture, it's just. It looks like just a wonderful human.
Speaker 2:The US labor market is stalling. The New York Times came out with the latest report, jobs are stalling out. August has a very weak jobs report. It was what I'd like to say A letdown.
Speaker 1:A letdown for who?
Speaker 2:my dear, Everybody All right. The economy only added 22,000 jobs.
Speaker 2:Friends, that is like so bad I think I was nice with using the term letdown which was way below, way below what experts expected, and unemployment has inched up to 4.3%. To make it worse, june was revised down to show the biggest net job loss since 2020. So during that great recession time, covid times and long-term unemployment is creeping higher and higher for folks. We've talked about this multiple times. And then there was this little odd twist in the story the stock market actually went up on this news because weaker jobs almost guarantee the Fed's going to cut interest rates soon. So, while Wall Street was cheering for workers, it's a clear sign that opportunities are slowing and it might be tougher to make the jump right now. So I had two questions for you. Only 22,000 jobs Is this stalling, or are we barely breathing at this point?
Speaker 1:Listen to answer your question. I think we're barely breathing. These job reports always get revised. For the last several months, the amount of job opening reports gets revised down because more comprehensive data comes in. So I think we're barely breathing.
Speaker 2:I agree. I also find it very disturbing. What does it say about us when the stock market's cheering on bad job news?
Speaker 1:They're cheering because they want the inflation rate to come down, which I get, I totally agree. But it's gross because the other thing I'm really struggling with lately the schisms between the haves and the have-nots, and the stock market typically benefits the haves, not people that are in the lower 3% on down. It feels very gross.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does. The combination of that and that article that came out last month about the CEOs cheering layoff numbers. It's just what is happening. We've absolutely lost the plot, I think. So I think I'm hopeful that we'll start to see a shift.
Speaker 2:With that said, friend to friend folks, this cooling job market matters for everybody. So if you're working, it's completely understandable that you want to hold on to stability. That said, don't get stagnant. Keep building your skills, things that make you marketable, no matter what happens. Focus on your own growth and development. Take care of you. We just talked about the boundaries.
Speaker 2:If you're job hunting, expect things to move slower and be tougher. Patience is going to be a big part of the success you could burn out while job hunting too. I coach a lot of people going through layoffs. You can burn out there too. So take care of yourself. We have that layoff playbook that we launched a couple of years ago. It's still very relevant. It's going to take a longer time. If you're a leader, invest in your people right now. Development, career conversations, trust building that's going to go a long way in a shaky market like this, and then, honestly, just plan ahead. The labor market always cycles. Right now, the winds are shifting in a weird way, but it always cycles. Right now, the winds are shifting in a weird way, but it always cycles. The Corn Fury came out with an article what to Do with All the Job Huggers, and you remember the days when everyone was job hopping just a few years ago.
Speaker 1:So are we moving from hopping to hugging?
Speaker 2:Yeah, got it. We've gone deep into that wave has officially crashed. People are now job hugging that's a cutesy way of saying staying put even when recruiters come calling actually because it's risky to take a new job you don't know if it's going to work out and blah, blah, blah. And it's too risky for folks. Quitting rates are at their lowest since 2018 because the job market is shaky. The search process has been exhausting for folks and AI has everyone nervous about making a change. We hear that all the time.
Speaker 2:We talk to people every day about this stuff, Like they don't even know where their org's going, what's happening, Everyone's figuring it out right. So this is the space we're in. It's really gray and uncomfortable for a lot of people. For leaders, this sounds great because they think they have loyal workers, but no, that's a ruse. If everyone stays too long without growth, companies are going to stall out because they're not growing. The challenge now is figuring out who to invest in, how to give them real development opportunities and how to make sure they don't quietly disengage behind the scenes, because the market again is going to shift and they will likely take off. Are you getting a little annoyed by all these little cutesy names for trends that seem to be masking the deeper rooted work problem.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was just having this thought around quiet cracking or job hugging or burnout, and the thing that bothers me about them is that they put all of the onus on the employee, not the system 100%.
Speaker 2:No people aren't job hugging. They are afraid that they won't be able to feed their family. If they had options and they knew it was secure options, they would take the risk. But adults take calculated risks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whenever we tell stories about relationships, calculated risks, whenever we tell stories about relationships, it's typically there's the two sides of the story, but somehow employers always end up like I don't know, not talking about me, but the employee is the one that's always making this decision and struggling with it, and it's either something that they're doing to be selfish, like job hopping, or they can't handle it 100%, 100%.
Speaker 2:both sides contribute to the health of that relationship. So you can't just be like not me, I'm perfect.
Speaker 1:No, you can't. It's never the case, but we love to come up with these terms. Can we stop Anyway?
Speaker 2:that's what's going on. So, friends, friend to friend, here's what I'm telling you to look out for If you're an employee. Really, this is your chance to ask yourself am I hugging this job because I love it or because I'm scared to leave it? And it's okay If you're scared. That is understandable, just given the climate that we're in. Deep reflection right now would be good. What are your values, priorities, what's shifted for you? What do you want? Going forward, and start working towards that, regardless of what you're doing in the day-to-day. If you're a leader, don't confuse hugging with engagement. This is not a confirmation that people love to work for your company or even for you. It just means they might be there because they have no choice. Employees want to feel challenged, they want to feel valued. They want to feel valued, they want to feel like they matter.
Speaker 1:Now is the time to double down on showing them that they do.
Speaker 2:You want to do F-Yeah and WTF?
Speaker 1:I just feel like we got to end on a high note. Hr Digest reported that Salesforce cut 4,000 support roles this week about 50% of their support staff saying that AI agents can now do the work. And this is just weeks after Mark Benioff, who is the CEO of Salesforce, promised AI would create jobs. Benioff appears positively excited about the benefits of this technology. He quote says it's been eight of the most exciting months of my career. I was able to rebalance my headcount on my support. I've reduced it from 9,000 heads to about 5,000 heads because I need less heads. Here's my WTF. I'm done with leaders saying AI won't get rid of jobs. It will change jobs and then very clearly Doing the exact opposite of that jobs and then very clearly doing the exact opposite of that the exact opposite of that. Listen, ai will replace jobs. Ai is replacing jobs. Here are 4,000 jobs that it is replacing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100%. Be transparent and be honest. Stop treating people like they're stupid. They know this change is coming. Be honest about the options. Or are you even thinking through them, Based on the reports that are coming out about how the ROI isn't what was expected or the lawsuits happening? So it's just interesting to me. There are choices.
Speaker 1:There are choices. Let me tell you what I think is happening right. There are choices. Let me tell you what I think is happening right. Efficiency and getting employees off your balance sheet is just seductive as hell to anybody that is accountable for a P&L. A ton of cost off your books right away. And the minute you say AI, your shareholders are like, yay, efficiency, because they'll yield more return on it. It is just the way things work and, to your very good point, now that we've had some time to figure out, is this really reaping the benefits or not? A report came out last week the Sobering Truth 95% of all AI pilots fail to deliver on their promises. In this specific example with Salesforce, mark Benioff didn't provide a clear picture of what Salesforce's AI-based workforce reduction plans were, but he was able to outline the benefits of this significant drop to its headcount. Yeah, so we're all making this shit up as we go along. You know what?
Speaker 2:it reminds me of Did you ever read the story of Elizabeth Holmes?
Speaker 1:Oh, the Theranos. Right yeah, the Theranos.
Speaker 2:And the book Bad Blood, where it's like everyone's selling air, and that's what it reminds me of what is air and what is solid ground? And get really clear on that. Are there conversations that are just happening where they know the solid ground and nobody else does, or is it just air and they're counting on the air to turn into solid ground?
Speaker 1:So WTF. I would love for CEOs and organizations to be a lot more transparent If they're going to replace, don't say it won't and for organizations to really think thoughtfully, systematically, about AI and if you are actually just ripping something out and putting something back in and expecting, with no human interaction, if it's going to work or not, because the system won't hold. Here's my F. Yeah, and I do have a comment about it, but it is an F. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Google announced that it will bring 20,000 people into tech careers over the next decade through apprenticeships, no degree required. I'm a huge fan of this because they are partnering with the US Department of Labor to bring these to bear. Number one, number two these are paid. They are 18 months. They are transferring the best and brightest thinking and processes and frameworks from Google to folks that might not have had it before. Big fan of this marriage of government and tech companies coming together to upskill people that might not have had access to that. And 20,000 people is no number to schlep at. It's fantastic. Love it. Yeah, it feels like this rare story around access. Love it, more of this. Yes. Where I really wish they would have just pushed this a little bit harder is typically with apprenticeships, what we see is there is a job waiting for you at the end of it. There is no job waiting for somebody at the end of this.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And that's where I would love to have apprenticeships. If we're going to do it, let's go all the way. We see this all the way through. Yes, go all the way through, go all the way through. Love, the start of this Love that it's paid, love that it's an access play yeah.
Speaker 2:This episode was produced, edited and all things by us myself, mel Plett and Francesca Rennery. Our music is by Pink Zebra and if you like this, please rate and subscribe. We'd really appreciate it. That helps keep us going. Take care, friends. Bye friends, bye friends, bye friends.
