Navigating China's cage-free egg market: insights from experts

Tune into our latest China-focused episode featuring two of the country's leading cage-free experts! Join us as we sit down with Michael Han, Vice President of Ovodan China, one of the nation's top egg processing companies, and Lisa Yang, Director of Global Food Partners in China. We address the most frequently asked questions from food and hospitality businesses about:

• The cage-free landscape in China: types of systems, welfare certifications, and national regulations.
• Ovodan's capacity to supply and expand its range of cage-free processed eggs.
• How food businesses can transition to a cage-free processed egg supply chain.
• What to expect in terms of cost.

Don't miss this insightful discussion on cage-free eggs in China!

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:12

Hello everyone, welcome to our podcast, the Sustainable Table Business Leaders Talk Welfare. For those of you joining for the first time today, welcome. My name is Elissa Lane and I'm the CEO and co-founder of Global Food Partners. On this podcast, we interview thought leaders in the fields of cage-free and other sustainability, responsible sourcing and welfare initiatives. I'm so excited about today's China-focused episode with two leaders in the cage-free field in the country.

Speaker 1 0:42

While there's growing interest and attention on cage-free across Asia, china has definitely been a market that has received the most attention. China is a key, if not the key, market for many food businesses in Asia and hence a priority market as far as cage-free commitment implementation goes. So today we wanted to have an episode totally focused on China and we have with us two guests who will answer some of the most common questions that we get about cage-free in the country. It's really exciting to have Michael Hahn here with us to share his perspectives from the point of view of an egg processor and supplier. Michael is the vice president for Ovodan China, a leading global egg processor and a key processor and player in China's cage-free processed egg landscape. He has extensive experience in the egg industry in China and a key player in the promotion of cage-free production and the development of animal welfare in China. He is based in Shanghai. We also have with us today Lisa Yang, who leads Global Food Partners' work with food businesses and the egg industry in China, supporting their transition to cage-free sourcing and production. She has worked with many leading food businesses to implement their cage-free egg policies, including Starbucks, unilever and Compass Group, as well as many producers across the country, so that they can both transition to cage-free production and improve or optimize their current cage-free production. Lisa is based in Chengdu.

Speaker 1 2:16

Welcome, michael and Lisa. It's a pleasure to have you with us today. This is going to be a really interesting episode to have you with us today. This is going to be a really interesting episode. As I mentioned, we're getting a lot of questions specifically about China, as implementation deadlines are approaching end of 2025. There's increasing focus and attention on making sure that businesses can successfully implement their policies in the country. So I want to start by asking you both to just tell us a little bit more about yourselves. I did a very brief intro, but if you can just share a bit more about your background, your work with Cage Free and anything else you would like to add, Sure.

Speaker 2 3:02

Thank you, lizzie, for having me here and hello everyone. My name is Lisa Yang and I work for Global Food Partners in China. I have been working on improving animal welfare in China for about 17 years now, and in the past five years I've focused on farm animal welfare and supporting the egg supply chain to transit from cages to cage-free systems. So I lead a team in China to provide technical support for the Chinese cage-free producers and I also support our team to develop tailored solutions for companies to source cage-free eggs here in China. So glad to be on the podcast today.

Speaker 1 3:47

Thanks, Lisa Michael, over to you.

Speaker 3 3:50

Hello Lisa, Elisa, hello everyone. I'm Michael, the Vice President of Odin Foods China. Our headquarter is in Odin, Denmark. Now we have four factories and one farm in China. We are professional egg and egg product suppliers. For sure, we also provide kit-free series products. I mainly work for egg products procurement, so my purpose is to promote the kit-free business in China.

Speaker 1 4:23

Thanks, michael, welcome All right. So, lisa, can you give us a brief snapshot of the cage-free landscape in China for listeners? So just a brief summary. What do you know? The percent of hens that are now cage-free? What's the scale of cage-free production? Any government regulations Types of cage-free Any government regulations types of cage free you can find in China. What can you share with us about cage free in the country?

Speaker 2 4:51

Yeah, sure, I think probably many listeners already know that China is the world's largest egg producer and also a consumer. Globally, I mean, we have been the biggest one for a long time and actually, if we look back, china has a long history of egg production and if we talk about cage-free and we have a long time of using free-range systems, so that is also a type of cage-free systems. It has been widely used previously in history. However, most of those free-range farms are smaller scale and they're more like a backyard farming practice. However, in the last five or six years, we start to see more indoor and larger scale of barn systems indoor and larger scale of barn systems such as the single-level system and the multi-tier system, or you can also call it aviary systems. So, in terms of the percentage of the laying hens, I think it's hard to estimate, but I think there are, like it is reported previously, that probably about 10% of the egg produced in China are actually produced in cage-free systems, but we do definitely need more updated numbers like that. So, in terms of the different sizes of the cage-free farms here in China, we actually can see really a wide range of them. So, like the big ones, we will see them housing probably several tens of thousands of birds on those farms. And sometimes we can also see some middle range ones like 5,000 or 6,000. And there are also like smaller ones. So from big, medium and the larger we can see different types.

Speaker 2 6:50

So currently in China, adopting and using cage-free systems is still very it's voluntary for the producers because there's no legislation for tree production systems and also there's no specific legislation on animal welfare. So it is the producer's choice to decide if they want to use cage-free systems or not. So in recent five or six years we started to see more indoor and larger scale of our system, such as single level and multi-tier systems. You can also call them aviary systems. So it is kind of hard to estimate how many birds are actually housed in cage-free systems right now in China.

Speaker 2 7:40

I think there is like some old information source reports that, yeah, probably there's about 10% of the egg production in China that has been actually carried out in cage-free systems. So in terms of the farm size, we actually have different sizes of the cage-free farms. For the bigger ones, you know, you can see tens of like several tens of thousands of birds housed in cage-free farms. For the bigger ones, you know, you can see tens of, like several tens of thousands of birds housed in cage-free, and you also go to the smaller ones, maybe you know 5,000. So I think the decision to adopt cage-free systems in China is still voluntary for the producers because, in contrast to other regions such as European Union, so in China we don't have legislation specifically on poultry production systems and there's no specific animal welfare legislation on that. So right now it is the producer's own decision to decide if they want to do that.

Speaker 1 8:44

Yes, that's really helpful. Thank you, Lisa. So you mentioned there are cage-free producers of different sizes, different types of cage-free systems. If you're working with a food business who wants to implement their policy in China, are there two or three challenges that you see often from companies trying to do this?

Speaker 2 9:10

Yes, yes, we've been having a lot of communication and ongoing conversations with food companies here in China and they definitely mentioned different challenges for their own sector and for their own company. However, definitely we can identify some common challenges. So cage-free eggs cost more than the conventional cage eggs. This is mainly because the cage-free eggs the birds in the systems, they're more likely to consume more feed and they also need more space, so that all goes to the production costs and they increase the costs and accordingly for the companies who want to buy those eggs, they need to increase their budget and I think for their budget it just cannot happen overnight. That's why they're still working on it. It can be a challenge for them, like for now, I think.

Speaker 2 10:09

Another challenge I heard often is about the transport for the cage-free eggs. The reasons for that actually can be different. Sometimes, for example, it's hotels, and some hotels are in really remote areas and for small volume of cage-free eggs they cannot reach there. Or sometimes in a region there's no cage-free egg supply available. So they actually got a budget but they cannot buy these eggs and because of the difficulty and complications in the transport or logistic system, sometimes the cost for transporting also goes up like very high. That is why it is very important to have some cost-saving plans for the companies so that we can support them to address those challenges.

Speaker 1 11:04

The companies so that we can support them to address those challenges. Thanks, Lisa. So it sounds like cost is still an issue, and then logistical issues are often still an issue, especially if it's remote locations, hospitality companies but there are some solutions and cost-saving strategies. Okay, so this is a question we get more and more about certification in China. So are there certifiers for cage-free? Who are they and what can you tell us about them specifically for China?

Speaker 2 11:41

I can contribute to this question. I think if it was like five years ago people asking this question my answer would be OK, sorry, unfortunately there are no cage-free certification schemes in China, but right now things are vastly cage-free certification schemes in China. But right now things are vastly different compared to five years ago. So there are actually two established cage-free egg certification schemes and both are owned by Chinese non-profit organizations. So one is called the China Chain Store and Franchise Association, so CCFA. It is a membership association for companies in the food industry and consumption, and the other one is the International Corporation Committee of Animal Welfare and it is a Chinese animal welfare organization, the Chinese animal welfare organization. So both schemes are recognized by the producers and the companies when they want to sell and they want to buy cage-free eggs. So, for example, if a company wants to buy eggs, the first question they usually ask is have you been certified and what is your certification details? Yeah, definitely certified. And what is your certification details? Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 12:57

They play a very critical role here in chinese market okay, so it's the ccfa certification and I I ccaw is that right? Yes, certification, and both certify cage-free farms across china and all of china. Yes, yes, that's correct, and both certify cage-free farms across China and all of China. Yes, yes, that's correct. Okay, thank you, michael. Did you want to add anything about certification?

Cage-Free Egg Traceability System in China

Speaker 3 13:25

Yes, I also have some comments on this question. In this year there was a very important thing happened. The existing certified kit-free suppliers organized the kit-free egg traceability system. On each package there is a unique QR code. This is to make sure the buyers can buy the real kit-free eggs. This is very important to let this industry, let this new industry, grow.

Speaker 1 14:03

Oh, wow, okay, If you go to the supermarket, on the egg package there's a QR code and a consumer can scan that and learn more about the cage-free farm. Is that right?

Speaker 3 14:09

Yes, if the consumer scans the QR code, you can find the information of the firm, which date the lien date and where is the X actually from.

Speaker 1 14:23

Okay, and do you know how many producers are part of this? Is it a big group or a select few?

Speaker 3 14:34

If we talk about the certified farms, now most of the farms are using this system Interesting and I believe just now Lisa mentioned I believe from next year this will be mandatory. This will be mandatory for CCFA-certified farms.

Speaker 1 14:57

Okay, so all farms, all egg cartons from the certified farms will need to have that QR code.

Speaker 3 15:03

Yes.

Speaker 1 15:04

Okay, that is interesting. I did not know that part. Thanks for sharing that. All right, so I have a question about processed eggs liquid eggs, lisa.

Speaker 1 15:17

As you mentioned, there are many cage-free farmers and producers Michael, you were also just sharing that. There are many certified and there's the traceability program that's in place. So, let's say, a company is able to identify cage-free producers, but many companies, as you both know, especially food manufacturers, some QSR, aren't necessarily sourcing the shell eggs but they need the processed eggs in their supply chain. So when they're going cage-free eggs in their supply chain, so when they're going cage-free, they are needing the processed cage-free eggs and often what we hear is that there can be some challenges there. So do you know if any of these producers, the farmers, have processing equipment, or what would happen next? So a company identifies a farmer, do they have processing equipment or what would happen next? So a company identifies a farmer, do they have processing equipment? If they don't, then what's the next step to ensure that they can get the cage-free, processed or liquid or in the other forms, aside from shell, that they need?

Speaker 2 16:29

Well, lisa, I'm glad you had this question because I think that's why it's very important to talk to Michael here today, because in this case, egg processors or egg processing companies, they are actually critical stakeholders in this cage-free supply chain development. So first to answer a question do most of the cage-free farmers also have processing equipment? And actually that's not common and usually it's not the case. This is because egg production and egg processing are two separate sectors so they're closely connected and linked together, but they are vastly different. So, like egg production is more like in the sector of agricultural goods production. However, egg processing is mainly in the is part of the food industry. So maybe in the West, you know, food industry covers the agriculture end and also the processing end, but in China that's not the case. So, yeah, so very few producers would have process equipment and that is why we have professional egg processor companies like Overdann.

Speaker 2 17:43

To come to the conversation to how to transit from cages to cage-free in China's egg industry. So I think it is more common I mean, michael can correct me it is more common to see that integrated egg processing companies. They might own or contract farms to supply them with eggs, but it's not the other way around. So, to answer your second question, so what can companies do in this kind of case? Well, so they just need to talk to their processors, like talk to Ovidan about transitioning. So that conversation is very important.

Speaker 1 18:23

Thanks, lisa Michael. Do you want to add about that from Ovidan's perspective?

Speaker 3 18:28

Lisa is very right the supply chain and the industries. If we talk about its farm, its agricultural industry, if we talk about egg processing, its food industry, it's a totally different business for all the people. The eggs are normally transported in the normal temperature, but the egg products are normally in low temperature. So for the transportation, but the egg products normally in low temperature. So for the transportation, for the storage, for the plants, it's different.

Speaker 1 19:01

Okay, so let's say so. If a buyer, a food hospitality business, comes to you and they're looking for processed egg that's cage-free, so they need to meet their commitment by the end of 2025, in China they need processed liquid other forms of cage-free eggs. Can you tell us a bit more? What's your capacity at Ovalon to supply cage-free processed egg? Why cage-free processed egg and what would you need from the buyer to be able to supply this product?

Speaker 3 19:42

Okay, let me introduce this. We will talk about two capacities. The first capacity for Overdine is our farm. Our farm capacity is not quite big, for Overdine is our farm. Our farm capacity is not quite big. Currently our certified kill-free layers is 25,000 layers. It's not so big but, like for all the other Overdine suppliers, we have many contracted egg farms in China. So this is our beneficiary for this industry. Because so this is our beneficiary for this industry because we can source certified eggs, kill-free eggs, and process, then sell to our customer. The second capacity is related to the egg processing business.

Speaker 3 20:40

We know China is big, so the most important thing for Uodan is to provide our customers the fresh and quality products. We need to be close to our customers because all the products are transported in low temperature. Now Uodan has four egg processing plants in China, located in Tianjin. Tianjin is in the north and in Guangdong. Guangdong is in the south, in Suzhou in the east and also in Sichuan in the west. We have now four factories in China. The total capacity is over 150,000 million tons per year. I believe this is enough for the current requirements and we are still expanding our farms and processing capacity.

Speaker 1 21:31

Okay, thanks Michael, that's helpful. So you have. So Obodon has its own farm. You said about 25,000 layers certified farm cage-free and then you also source from other you mentioned certified. They're all certified farm, cage-free farms. Yes, so certified by CCFA or CCFA? Okay, certified by CCFA, and you have four plants and you think that with the current requirement for cage-free, ovodon is able to supply cage-free processed egg? And what are the different forms of processed cage-free eggs that you have?

Speaker 3 22:12

The product series Ovodon can provide also includes shell eggs, no problem for us. Includes shell eggs and liquid eggs, even egg powders, and some prepared egg products, like the omelet, like the scrambled egg, hard-boiled egg. That's all for us and actually currently, now we have the cage-free customers for all of these types of egg products.

Speaker 1 22:46

Okay, so you're already supplying a lot of these egg products in cage-free form across China. Not a lot, but it started. Okay, it's starting. And so what would you need from a potential buyer? They come to you. Is there a MOQ, a minimum order that they need to give? I know we've heard from certain suppliers farmers, processors a certain length of a contract to buy. Can you tell us a bit more about a company? Comes to you. They want to buy cage-free processed eggs. What do you need? What do you need? A type of commitment? Tell us a bit about that. So, and assume companies are listening to the podcast, they want to know they go to you. What should they expect? Do you need?

Speaker 3 23:35

Yes, if we talk about the possibility. Odan already has run this business in China over 20 years. We have our current supply chain to all over China. I just mentioned the four factory things. So if customers need this, our MQ will be the lowest, you know. I just can add like in some customer they need just a part of the kit-free products. We can give him part kit and part kit-free. That's no problem for us.

Speaker 3 24:16

But for Odin we also need to consider a very important thing is when we need to expand our capacity. That's very important because our godin knows that kid-free farms cost is very high or worse on the kid system. So we need the customer have a confirmed requirement to us, like the delivery time, the first delivery time, an annual volume like this, especially for the large customers, because the requirement is so big. If they tell me tomorrow, give me 10 metric tons of kill-free eggs, no, I don't have this. All of the suppliers need the time to expand, to start a farm, to start to rear the baby chickens, then laying eggs. That's all needed time. So the confirmed requirements is very important.

Speaker 1 25:28

Okay, thank you. And so for these requirements, how far in advance would be your preference? So let's say you know a company needs, they confirm the volume, your preference. So let's say you know a company needs, they confirm the volume they need, let's say, by the end of 2025 to meet their commitment. You know that you need to expand in order to meet that requirement. Can you give us a bit of a timeline? What would that look like in order for them to have that product by the end of 2025?

Speaker 3 25:59

Yes, we talk about many of these questions with our sales, also with our production department. Everybody wants to know a countdown time to start this, but for me, if a customer like, for example, if they just need 100 to 100 metric tons of annual volume, that's no problem. Currently we can supply. But if their requirement is like 500 metric tons, 1,000 metric tons, like this, this will be near time. And if we start a farm to produce kill-free eggs from the very beginning, this will be over one year Will be over one year to prepare the kill-free eggs.

Speaker 3 26:51

And we need to remember, for 2025 is most of the customers' deadline. If, at the end of this year, every customer come to me, okay, next year will be my deadline. I will be crazy. You'll be a busy man, very busy man, yes, so the important thing for the potential KidFree customer is come to us earlier. Do not need to buy now, but come to me earlier. Let's talk about this. Give me a schedule. We need to prepare the year after next year. Who will join? We need to prepare this because we have too much customers.

Speaker 1 27:43

Yes, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. So you're saying planning phase. If a company is coming to you with large requirement, the planning phase should begin about a year in advance, and as the deadlines approach, more and more companies are going to be asking the same. So the sooner the better it sounds, so that they could both for the company and for you, so that you're not rushing and trying to satisfy everyone's the demand for cage-free processed eggs all at the same time, one year before the deadline. Okay, and is there anything else? Is there? Uh, I know we've heard a lot about long-term contracts. So if a company's coming to you for processed egg, cage free, is there a certain length of the contract? Or it varies, especially if you need to be expanding production for that company. So the question is is there a certain length of contract that they would need? So if a company is coming to you, you need to expand your capacity to provide cage-free processed egg. Is there a certain? Is there a longer term contract that you need because of that expansion?

Speaker 3 29:06

Yes, we need a long term contract.

Speaker 1 29:09

Yes, Do you know, how long that usually is?

Speaker 3 29:17

If for their own policy it will be like five years or more, but for us, for our contract, we need to like two to five years contract. That's no problem for us, Okay thanks Now.

Speaker 1 29:32

So Lisa mentioned one of the most common challenges is cost of cage-free eggs, and I think it's understood now that cage-free eggs cost more than conventional eggs for different reasons. From a processor's point of view, can you talk about what the cost increase can look like for the actual processed eggs and what contributes to this cost increase?

Speaker 3 29:58

Okay, the cost also needs to be separated into two costs. The first one is kid-free eggs. This almost, we have fixed figures of this, fixed figures of this. If you look at the Europe, the US, the kid-free eggs production cost is like 40% higher than the kid eggs. It's around 40%. If we look at the processing level, the main cost is not just from eggs but also from transportation and production width.

Speaker 3 30:43

And a very important thing is egg yolk and egg white balance. For the transportation, everybody understands this. But the white and the yolk balance. For example, if the egg white is sold in kid-free price but the egg yolk is in kid price, then the egg yolk cost will be added on the egg white. That's the balance. And if I cannot sell the egg yolk out, so the egg white cost that will be higher to everywhere, high. So that's the that's the balance. But I believe this always happens in the world beginning. I believe with the volume increase, with the market expansion, the balance impact will be decreased. This always happens in the very beginning. So the cost in the beginning is very high. Everybody knows this. If, like, with the volume increase, the cost for all the egg products will drop, will drop, like to the firm level.

Speaker 1 32:01

Great, thank you, that's helpful. Yeah, and similar to what we see around the world. As demand increases, price goes down. Usually, at the beginning it's higher. Eventually it will decrease. Okay, lisa, did you want to add anything to that before we move on to the next question?

Speaker 2 32:20

No, all good Okay.

Speaker 1 32:22

So you mentioned at the beginning, Lisa, some of the challenges like cost, but also challenges of if a hotel hospitality company has a remote location, they need cage-free eggs. It's hard so you don't have cage-free producers all over the country in remote, more challenging locations, so they're not able to get shell eggs, processed eggs, to those remote locations. What are some of the options? I know this leads into our cage-free credit program and we get a lot of questions about that related to these remote locations. So can you just explain how that can work, especially if you have, let's say, a hospitality company that just has a property in a really remote location, needs processed eggs, need to be cage-free. What can they do?

Speaker 2 33:12

Right, I think it is. As I mentioned, and you also mentioned, lisi it is a very common challenge for companies in different sectors here in China. I think Michael already was very clear that if you need to buy the cage-free processed cage-free egg products they can supply, but you do need to make sure that you place your order early, be clear about the volume so that the processors can get ready and to supply you in time. So I think for any companies who want to source the processed cage-free egg products, I would strongly recommend you to do that, because if you manage to source the processed cage-free egg products or shell eggs, it's going to be a really great impact on the reporting of your commitment implementation here in the region of China. So that's why I think I would encourage the companies to assess their supply chain and see if that's going to work and if not, we definitely need to talk about the credit system. So I think it is a great strategy for any companies who are facing the challenges of sourcing during this transitional period, like in China, and what you need to do is actually not that complicated After you assess your supply chain and you examine your egg volume, and what you need to do is just to maintain your current supply chain.

Speaker 2 35:04

If you buy processed eggs from Overdome, you just keep buying.

Speaker 2 35:08

You don't make any changes to your vendors or to change your contract with Overdome.

Speaker 2 35:15

And then you just need to look at the volume of the conventional egg products you buy from Overdent and you just buy the right amount of credits to offset the caged products that you are buying. For example, you need to buy, say, 2,000 tons of processed cagedaged eggs from over there every year and we can calculate how many credits are needed to cover these 200 tons of processed egg products. And you just pay for the credit as a company and the credits are actually calculated based on the farm gate price difference between cage and cage-free eggs. So in this case the company is definitely paying less than sourcing the physical cage-free processed eggs because there's no packaging fees and there's no costs for transport. So in the nature you're paying for conventional eggs products and the cage-free claims and therefore you are actually supporting the cage-free egg supply chain here in China. And these trading records can also be used in your cage-free progress report and they are recognized as a commitment implement strategy by several leading animal welfare organizations in the world.

Speaker 1 36:48

Thanks, Lisa, that's helpful. So it does sound like yeah, Michael, you were explaining you can deliver to remote locations. Would that be the case even if there's like one property in a very remote, far off location? Or do you think credits would be the solution in that case? Or do you think Oboidon is able to deliver the physical?

Speaker 3 37:11

Yes, I always suggest to the customer if they can accept the quality points solution, that's better for them, Especially for the eggs. If they must need the real eggs, the delivery, the freshness and the correct rate will be different.

Speaker 1 37:37

Thank you All right, so before I move on to the last question, is there anything either of you want to share about cage-free in China, about the work you're doing, anything you want to add before we wrap up?

Speaker 2 37:50

I think for me, I've been working on this topic for at least like four years right now, and I can see the the discussion around the cage free from like almost nothing like five years ago. You look it up online. This is nothing about like cage free. People even didn't know what it was, but right now I think I can share. Last year in the egg industry, the social like. If they look at a social media, what is the most? What is topic that has been mentioned the most? What is the keyword of the year of 23 for egg industry in china? And that is cage free.

Speaker 2 38:30

Oh yeah, and also, like I've been having so many conversations with companies here and they do want to make this happen, even though there are challenges. So I think what I can if I can ever share one message with everyone who's listening to this podcast, I'd say that it is happening in China. The production is happening and the buying is happening, and what we need to do is to work together to figure out the solutions and strategies and provide support for the producers and for the companies who need to buy, and it definitely can happen. I'm very confident to see that. Yeah, thanks, lisa.

Speaker 1 39:11

It's good to hear what about you, Michael?

Speaker 3 39:15

Like Lisa said, the leader's role is always tough. For us, we started this kid based on the European rules. After seven years running, in 2022, we get the first certification from Edison Movement as HFAC. That's the recognition for our jobs. So, if we look back at this, always believe in a sentence like do the right but do the hard but the right thing. Yes, for us, we see this rule is correct, is right, but on the way it's always tough. We just need to insist on doing this.

Speaker 1 40:25

Love that 100%. So do the right, do the hard but the right thing, hard but the right thing. Okay, I guess that leads into my next question. I wanted to ask question. I ask all the guests which is what is the best piece of life advice you've ever received? Is that yours, michael? Do the hard but the right thing, or do either of you want to share the best piece of life advice you've ever received? Lisa?

Speaker 2 40:53

I'm surprised I actually said that, because that is part like that's like my motto of life. Actually, I learned this from a professor in the States that I really who, I really respect, and he just said, like, focus on the hard things and the good things will happen. So don't get stressed, don't get distracted, and you know that's the right thing and be committed and good things will happen. It will come to you, you don't even need to seek it yeah, love that.

Speaker 1 41:23

What about you? Michael the hard, but the right thing.

China's Cage-Free Market Insights

Speaker 3 41:27

Yes, the hard, but right thing, yes, the right thing is to create value. Yes, I believe we are create value and it's a future of this, and the real value is scarcity. Thank you.

Speaker 1 41:42

Well, thank you both for joining us today. I think this has been a very interesting and insightful conversation, and it's great to hear the details about what's happening in China around cage-free and some of the ways that you mentioned that companies can still meet their commitments, what they need to keep in mind all very helpful. So thank you both. Thanks Michael, thanks Lisa. To be notified of our latest episodes, don't forget to subscribe to the Sustainable Table Business Leaders Talk Welfare podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts, such as Apple Podcasts, spotify, youtube podcasts and more, see you soon.