spk_0: 0:00
Theo Project brought. Wait, what you learn? We'll figure out the interim Dr D. I'm leaving it to you. Oh, God, you have to hear this episode. We have somebody here who's suffering from anxiety disorder due to toxic brother and toxic family member. So it was amazing. Definitely. If you guys want to hear an amazing story of a young individual who is dealing with a toxic environment at home, being bullied by sibling and then coming out of it and the steps she took to get out of it, I think that's what amazed and the lack of responsibility that her family put into or not. So there was a lot of intense feelings I felt like in this. And actually this is like one of the first times we've ever had someone that is really going through these emotions. And instead of being theoretical, we decided to make it really, really and hear this person's story. I hope you guys enjoy it. This is really great, especially if you're living with toxic people. They've experienced toxic relationship siblings, families. This is Theo episode for you. And don't forget to leave us a rating review. All this and more so we're laughing. Is Dr D. We get off and telling our guests that Oh, no. Yeah, you sound great when I'm going looking at the screen. So if everyone can hear that's it I said to her, like Dr D. C. Were taken over the technical part. I like that. I told him, I think I have a D h. D. Definitely agree with that. I have this excess energy. I don't know what to do with Donna Technical. I'm hosting doing anything. So we need a psychiatrist still like issues herself something. It's out there. Normally we're normal people. But your psychologist, we're nowhere near all right, there's somebody asked me the other day. Why are you a psychologist? I said, Don't you know? Also causes come from very screwed up family shrinks or the most best? That's true. You guys probably think you fixed yourself. That's very actually, that's why I
spk_1: 2:17
went.
spk_0: 2:17
I thought I could get free therapy. Be. I
spk_1: 2:19
think it's
spk_0: 2:20
myself and I'm still fixing myself, and I hope I'll be done before I die. I
spk_1: 2:26
think everybody's weird. As long as they touch psychology a bit. That's when they become weird. E remember
spk_0: 2:33
all those psychology classes As soon as you start learning all these concepts and you think, Wow, I have this. I have that e at school. Under graduated. I took up normal psychology. The first thing I remember my professor saying, Listen, people I know we're gonna study a lot of disorders and all of them they'll apply to you, but it's okay. You're still normal. I left a close ally. I'm not. Well, I, uh Well, I was a great laugh. Welcome. We have a guest with us today. This guest, she's great. She's got a lot of information to share, and we will keep it anonymous. I think it's best to not mention any names, and that's not necessary. We don't have to will just go on and start talking about Why did you want it to be on the pockets?
spk_1: 3:18
Well, I wanted to bring awareness about toxic family members here and way, especially because we are a collectivist society here. So we care about family a little too much, and so we tend to gloss over those who are toxic or those who make mistakes and not really bring it up because we think it's embarrassing or it's shameful,
spk_0: 3:38
very true toxic family members because I guess whenever we talk about toxic people most of the time, people don't think that their family could be toxic. They're always thinking that they're outside world, their family. I mean distant family. Maybe they can think about it friends, but they don't really think about toxic in the sense of, like, immediate family members.
spk_1: 3:58
Yeah, which I think is a problem, because that's where it's most common. At least that's what I've heard, that it's not really the strangers that could be like the most dangerous tests be people who are around you. So whatever you talk
spk_0: 4:09
about toxic family members, what do you mean?
spk_1: 4:12
What I mean is, people in families, they tend to do certain things that might be seen as, oh, like they're just playing around. They're just goofing around whatever. It doesn't matter when in reality could be very damaging to someone, especially on the inside and especially for Children. People like I see a lot of family members, especially with their kids. They're like, Oh, stop crying or I'll stop being loud and it's like that's not how you're supposed to talk to your child. I mean, yes, it's a kid, but you have to treat them like a person. Still, you have to listen to them. You gotta understand what's going on because they yes, their kids. But that's why you need to talk to them because you don't know what's going on in their heads. They're not the same level, is you, And it's the same thing when you're older as well cause as someone who's been abused by my brother, he didn't have the same concept of Oh, she's younger, so she might understand everything. Instead, he just thought, Oh, I'm better. So I should try to help her be better because I was younger and I sold and get everything yet, so he kind of just focus on that more.
spk_0: 5:07
And so when you're talking about toxic family members were specifically talking about your brother. And whenever you say that he was very toxic towards you because you're younger, so in a way, kind of like used his power to be able to monopolize you. Do you mind going into a little more detail about how he used this power being older? What was he abused about? And also the idea of, like earlier you were saying something about being equipment and I think it being a clinician here for 15 years now, I feel sometimes that we always think that these concepts come from the West and we see things on TV and we assumed that that only happens in the Western. We don't really realize that it's happening in the East and it happens here. A lot of these things that are happening here, and so I think it's great that we have people like yourself will come and really, obviously Maddie and I do this podcast because we want to be able to educate people locally and also to let them know that all these things that we have in the West we also have them here. I mean, it depends on there's no comparison, but it's important that people really realize what the sometimes what, It's toxic people mean, does it have been here or not? So
spk_1: 6:12
yeah, exactly. And I was 13 at the time when it started my brother. In a way, he was somewhat had narcissistic tendencies. Now that I'm older and I understood that what's going on? He always felt like he was the best out of everybody and that he knew everything more than everybody else. And so one day he came to me and he was like, You know what? I want to make you a better person. And I'm like, Okay, like it sounds fine. It sounds like he wants to help out. It's OK. But then slowly started to get more controlling, he would force me to do things I don't want to do. For example, we were traveling somewhere. I remember where I think it was Austria and my mom wanted to go shopping and I wanted to go. But he was like, No, you're staying here so we can help better you. And so he forced me to stay at home instead. And he would always come to my room and tell me like, Oh, you didn't do this. You didn't do that. You're very stupid. You're worthless. You don't understand anything. And he would always just barge into my life without warning and just forced me to do things I don't want to do.
spk_0: 7:06
And so did you ever like Tell your mom that, Or did you feel like something was awkward? Because you were 13 right? So you're starting.
spk_1: 7:12
I didn't tell her everything. I just told her like, Oh, he did this to me like he was bothering me or we start fighting in front of them. And they think, Oh, this is just like brothers sister talk. It's not a big deal. And also, if he threatened me a little, he told me like, Oh, you can't say anything to our parents or I will hurt you. And the he has hurt me before. Like physically. Once he almost broke my arm. He like, grabbed it and posted it. And once he was gonna punch me because I didn't write a roller coaster because I was supposed to get over my fear of roller coasters, and I just couldn't do it. And so he, like, went into the hotel room and, like, was ready to hurt me. And he didn't do it, thankfully, but he was still ready to. So I was already too scared to say anything because I thought that maybe he would end up hurting me again.
spk_0: 7:54
So that must have been very scary experience for you. Especially like as you said, it's in our family members are supposed to be the place off our safety. We're supposed to feel secure and and whenever these violent behavior start at home and it's hard, I mean, especially at 13. I'm sure it was hard to be able to tell your parents or even recognize that something was wrong.
spk_1: 8:14
Yeah, it was very hard, because at first I didn't notice something was wrong. I just felt like, Oh, it's uncomfortable but it's okay like this is normal. But then, as it kept going, I was thinking, Yeah, this isn't right like he keeps coming into my room. He won't leave me alone. He tries to control every aspect of my life, and it's just he won't leave me alone. I think no one has to barge into someone's life forcefully and try to control you. That's not how life is. You're supposed to go and discovered by yourself. And if you need help, you ask not, you know, get a forced upon you. So I was very hard, especially for a girl who's 13. I mean, I'm still young. I still don't know anything about the world and try and discover myself. I discover what I like what I don't like what I'm comfortable with, and here I am at home feeling miserable because my brother just keeps barging in and telling me things that I don't want to hear. Now, how many
spk_0: 9:01
brothers and sisters do you
spk_1: 9:02
have? Two brothers and one sister,
spk_0: 9:04
And so did your sister also have similar experience with this brother Do? Is it only one brother was a Norse Theseus.
spk_1: 9:10
There was only one brother, and he wasn't like that with my sister. He would actually compare me to my sister and to my older brother, telling me how they're much better than me and how I should be more like them. And I should listen to them or things like the and it's for little things. That's the crazy part. It's not even for big things like, for example, they play certain video games, and I don't and he thinks like, Oh, you should play these because their strategy there's more thought to it. Instead of the games that I like to play that require to be relaxed and just have fun so he would think like, oh, you're not strategizing, so you're stupid, so you just play them like your older siblings
spk_0: 9:42
Do you ever sense there's a jealousy from your brother? Because are you smarter than him in school? Just out of curiosity, I mean, do you do better? Do you get better grades or do you are Do you find things more intellectual like, Do you have more intellectual like, uh, hobbies, so to speak, Like he said you were into comic books earlier, which I find most people that I know that are into college books are usually a lot smarter than other people.
spk_1: 10:05
Well, thank you for the at the time, I wasn't into comics yet or reading in general. So I don't know if I tend to get better grades than him, but I know that because I'm the youngest, my parents tend to be more sweet to me. I think that light I started it. Yeah,
spk_0: 10:22
maybe there was more jealous because he he she was getting a lot more attention than her brother. So he's the oldest.
spk_1: 10:27
Know he's the second oldest.
spk_0: 10:29
So the oldest. He never bothered you. The second oldest bothered you? Yes. And then you are the youngest. You have a sister's above you. Yes, but from all of this, the second oldest. He decided to bother you more, right? So when you say bother me, I mean, of course, you could share us whatever you're comfortable with. But whenever you're saying he's bothering me. So there's a possibility that because you were the youngest and your parents were a lot more productive of you, maybe he was jealous of that relationship. And he wanted to kind of be ableto proof to your parents that you're really not that sweet little girl. Or do you feel like because he's a narcissist? And he has, like, some sort of perverted mind that he had toe be ableto bother you? I guess that 13 you wouldn't have known. But do you ever like wonder? Why did he pick you are why was there some sort of a jealousy?
spk_1: 11:14
Yeah, I have. As I grew older, I tend to ask my parents a lot about their past and how they took care of us and things like that. And I've learned that my dad, he used to hit both of my brothers when they were kids over little things. So I think that might have contributed to his actions because, as he liked the years progressed my own taught him slowly, though this isn't the right way to do it Like I need to talk to them. You need to like comfort Thumb instead. Because my mom, she had a child psychology book, actually to learn, like how to be a better parent, things like that. And so that kind of started with my dad. But after my sister was born, so we were treated better than my brothers as they were growing older.
spk_0: 11:48
So that means he probably had a lot of repressed anger towards your dad, and he was using it on you and maybe a 13 because he thought that you would be an easier target, probably. And your sister, you mean?
spk_1: 12:00
Yeah, Well, with my sister, he wasn't like that at all, which I don't know why. Maybe because they have more things in common, probably because I used to like video games as well. But there are specific games that I would like to play that he doesn't, but with my sister, they like the same things. They're always like together, and they're like, best friends. Since I was always the odd one out and they would try to get me to do the same things. But I just don't like them like that. That's just not me. And so he would take that as me being weak because the games they like to play has, like, strategy all you have to think through it. And sometimes I just want to play those kinds of games. And he never got that. He thought that means I'm stupid or are we tend to use that against me.
spk_0: 12:36
So he was physically abusive. He was emotionally abusive and controlling, and he tried to be able to manipulate you to make you feel that you are not good enough. Now, how long did this last?
spk_1: 12:49
Ah, alas, it from 13. Test 17. Yeah. So
spk_0: 12:54
four years? Yeah. From And when did you decide that this was enough? And you had to do something about it?
spk_1: 13:00
Well, I've done this. When I was, like, 51 I went to my parents first. I told wth, um, well, I didn't tell them in detail because I was still pretty scared. But I told him like, Oh, he's bothering me like he's saying things and it starts. And my mom would always say, Oh, just ignore it. You know, there are true, just, you know, be more confident and that's it. And I would think, Yeah, but that's not really helping me, like we're still kind of in a corner and he's still, like, above and whatever, So that didn't really help. But what did help was when I got to a UK actually, when I went to the Counseling center for the first time because I actually first went for my cousin, never for myself. But I thought, you know, since I'm here, I might as well ask. I usedto have like she's electrical like feelings and my thighs whenever anybody touches them. Because my brother used to touch them a lot when I was 16 and because of that kind of abuse, he would think that well, because I'm reacting, it means that I should try to get used to it more so he would do it more often. And that's why the start happened. I would like get this like anxiety rush. And so I talked to a counselor and he told me, like all right, I think you might have anxiety, like write down throughout the day if you feel like a panic attack or anything like that. That's how I knew that I needed help.
spk_0: 14:07
So it wasn't until you got to college where you realized, Let me ask, because somehow, somewhere you realize something was wrong. So it wasn't just like your brother bothering. But you've developed this panic attack or anxiety attack because of the way he was bullying you. Yes, exactly. So we could say he was bullying you
spk_1: 14:24
especially like now that I'm older when I looked back. There are some moments where realize Oh, yeah, that was a panic attack. Like I I realized the symptoms that I had. They were not normal, but you don't know how I was surviving throughout these years and just now, realizing it Yet like I remember when I was 13 I couldn't even make a phone call. I was too scared. I couldn't breathe and they were told me Oh, it's just a phone call. Why are you so scared? Why are you being so childish? Need to grow up. And it's like, no, something is wrong here. Lee, how can I not make a phone call? It's just a call, so Yeah,
spk_0: 14:51
and it sounds like whenever you did bring attention to it. Seems like people dismissed it
spk_1: 14:55
exactly. Uh, they didn't have this idea that there is anxiety or like any mental health issues or anything like that. So I just thought, Oh, you're just a child. Neto, you know, grow up. Which is a really horrible mentality, that we have a lot here, like we instill that in Children was like those old is like, you know, 34 months that we would pretty much seldom won't stop crying. You're a boy. Don't be a girl. Or are you so scared? They're just kidding. It's like, No, this is a kid, you know. They don't have that same mentality. There's still young, they don't they're still discovering things around them. You can't really enforce your ideas to them because that's what you believe in. Ito kind of think in their perspective.
spk_0: 15:30
So even though you went to your mom, she didn't dismiss it. But it may be because most of the times parents they dismissed the idea of, like one sibling bullying another sibling by saying, Well, it's a sibling rivalry. Kids fight all brothers and sisters fight, so she kind of like normalized int.
spk_1: 15:47
Yeah, she did. And I think it's because of how she grew up a CZ Well, because, Well, she grew up in a family of eight, which is really impressive. And she only had one brother and he would also, like, bully her a bit more aggressively than with my brother, cause with my brother, he's more emotional. But with my uncle, it was more physical, and they didn't have a father figure around either. And so she kind of had to learn how to be tough. And so she has this, like, tough exterior. She doesn't really get affected easily, and I think she was trying to help me learn that as well. But I'm a different person. I'm not like my mom. So I don't think she really, like, understood that I can't really just be like that,
spk_0: 16:23
right? And maybe because your brother did bully her, she assumed that this is the way every brother and sister is. But what made yours different? When did you finally be able to tell her to take it? Say is what took? You already were having anxiety attack. You're already having depression. You probably which it you know, let's talk about some of the feelings negative feelings you have toward him, what kind of feelings you have toward him for doing all this.
spk_1: 16:48
It was mainly fear. I remember when I was 14 I would hide in my room and I wouldn't get out until, like, I make sure that he's in his room like I would check and make sure, and if he's in his room, I would like, run downstairs, get what I need and come back into my room. I would keep everything to myself. Yeah, that's pretty much all I remember cause I doesn't have traumatic. It was I don't remember much of anything I need to look through pictures to remember, like even where we traveled. I don't remember anything that we've done at all
spk_0: 17:11
because your experience was so traumatic. How terrifying? Well, you know like that where you have at 14 and toe to not be carefree and to worry about your surrounding and to worry about being abused.
spk_1: 17:24
Yeah, and I had no one to talk to so highly created someone. It sounds sweet, but it's really not, especially because of the person that I drew. It's like a squirrel with, like hollowed eyes and I need her death. I don't know why I did through that, but I did. And I would like tapered on my wall and just talk to her instead. I've never really told anyone this. So like whoever hears this, I'm sorry. Like you didn't know this part of hope, Me. But yeah, that's the person that I would like talk to, and I would write things down sometimes. Like if something big happens, I would write down like how he felt things like that. It's It's very It's very scary to look at now that I'm older,
spk_0: 17:56
this person or this picture kind of helped you process some feelings, or do you feel like it created more anger?
spk_1: 18:02
I'm not sure if it did anything. I just know that I was too upset to say If anybody saw you create someone and I don't know if that's really healthy or not, I just know that I did it and that's it.
spk_0: 18:13
Well, how did it help you?
spk_1: 18:14
I don't know. To be honest with you. Like I said, I really don't remember much of anything in my team.
spk_0: 18:18
How did these hollow eyes?
spk_1: 18:21
She looks very scared that was important part. She had to look scary. I don't
spk_0: 18:24
know. Maybe was a mirror image of how you were feeling because she looked very scary and you already very scared inside. So maybe this is just like the how you looked like inside on the outside.
spk_1: 18:35
Yeah, amazing
spk_0: 18:36
picture goes away. If you looked like that in a picture than a is removed from of anything that your brother could be a couple,
spk_1: 18:43
Yeah, that's possible. I've I don't know, to be honest, but can you imagine?
spk_0: 18:47
Like, how many kids are living in homes that are there is sexual abuse and physical abuse and emotional abuse and how terrified they are.
spk_1: 18:56
Yeah, I know it's so horrible, especially like in the Middle East that's so normalized to hit your own kids and to yell at them. And I think that's horrible. I don't see how that could help and clearly, with psychology has been proven. That actually is the complete opposite. You
spk_0: 19:10
just creates fear and anxiety.
spk_1: 19:11
Exactly. Yes, So it be great if people would stop thinking that this would work because it really wouldn't. I mean, yes, your child might stay quiet, but that's not the goal. You're not supposed to hurt them like that unless we give them fear. You're supposed to like you're supposed to love when you're supposed to nurture them. That's how you're supposed to keep them quiet by giving them love, not be giving them fear.
spk_0: 19:30
Right? And because I feel like because people don't understand that this is not okay. The people normalize abuse and the normalize, you know, hitting. I mean, how many, Thompson, Why get someone at the clinic saying I was hit and I turned out to be only God, I hear what they're saying. That or a mom and I'm thinking in whose eyes are you? Okay, look, you know, you've got this EMP breaded anger in you because you learned it by being abused. And then you take that and you put it out on someone else because you're frustrated. And so I don't understand why these individuals think that they have become better people because of the abuse. They could have become better people and maybe is a better person because of the abuse. But maybe because later on in life, someone gave him the support someone helped him, made him feel safe. But we often time in this part of the world were constantly just defined that getting your kid is not that big of a deal.
spk_1: 20:26
Yeah, exactly, which is horrible, because it starts at a really young age. And the thing is, you can discipline your kids, but you shouldn't want to hurt. That's not the point of being a parent. And the thing is,
spk_0: 20:35
is that I feel like we're starting to educate parents or not to hit their kids. And
spk_1: 20:40
you know,
spk_0: 20:40
the majority are starting to learn. But the idea off the physical and emotional abuse that happens between siblings, where a lot of parents don't understand this is not okay. It's like I see enough patients who say that my brother bullied me. My brother used to do this to me, where it's been dismissed as a something normal that happens between simplex.
spk_1: 21:03
Yeah, I will never understand that, like any kind of hurt is never normal to me, especially between family. Like it's it's not okay. Family supposed to keep you happy and safe, and they're supposed to support you and help you out in life. And yet here we are thinking, Oh, your brother resilient you. That's okay. You probably did something wrong, but yeah, even if I did something wrong, that's not how you're supposed to deal with it. You're not supposed to have you really yell at you or hit you such a really aggressive way. That's that's not right. People need to realize that just because their blood doesn't mean they can do whatever they want slow how it works.
spk_0: 21:34
But the scary thing about it is that how does one brother who's the second oldest? If you were 13? He was, what, 17.
spk_1: 21:43
He was four years older. So
spk_0: 21:45
So he was 70. So I mean,
spk_1: 21:46
how does
spk_0: 21:47
a 17 year old even come up with the idea off plotting a you to be his target?
spk_1: 21:53
I don't know.
spk_0: 21:53
I mean, that's so scary to me. And he's not the only one. There are families that this violent is like. I
spk_1: 21:59
don't know if
spk_0: 22:00
it's normalized if it's learned where they're not enough supervision. But do you think about it because
spk_1: 22:04
he's still a kid? Yeah, exactly.
spk_0: 22:07
But has thes plans off trying to make his sister about a person by trying to reinforce this aggression and this violation to order.
spk_1: 22:17
Yeah, I mean, I get it. He was a kid, but you feel that he should have known better. So of course.
spk_0: 22:23
And I'm not just to find I'm saying that him as a kid still, that he can monopolize and manipulate and hurt his sibling without any sense of empathy.
spk_1: 22:34
Oh, yeah, There was definitely no empathy. Like, even once I cried in front of him because I was telling him about my legs and how they felt, and he dismissed it like I was being a child. Like I was full on, like, tears. You would think, Oh, to use equal sadness, meaning that she's hurt. But he didn't even care. He just he was even more upset when he's like, Oh, please, like, stop being such child.
spk_0: 22:53
You said your brother was abused by your dad when he was a kid, right when he was younger. I mean, that's learned behavior essentially, and I have a five year old. So when I take D J to the playground, I can see it in the kids that are around of how their acting. And then, you know, there's this one kid deejay walked up to him. My son walked up to him and the kid went over, took his car out of his hand. You have to give it back, kid through the car and then kick them. So long. Story short. This kept going on back and forth and everyone thought I was gonna yell at the kid that took the card through. But I yell at my son and I told him, I said, You go stand up for yourself. That kid's a bully, Comes back to you. Punch him in the eye. That's how I deal under the eye of the playground. If the bully bullies you, he's gonna come back. If you do nothing, Of course. Sure enough, they kid did come back to D. J afterwards and threw sand in his face. And this was like menu of footage like enough. But then when I called the security, you need to remove this kid because he wasn't just hitting my son. He was doing it to every kid. And then when I saw the father's reaction, when he came to pick up the sun, I looked at my wife. I looked at Hey and I said, That's why right there because this kid is getting abused at home. So, like you said, he thinks it's normal. And we have this debate earlier about Ben Dor and behavioral psychologists and learned behavior. And sure enough majority of the time, especially in Kuwait. From what I've seen, it's learned behavior from the homes, especially in the the non educated culture you know, so to speak. They hit its they still head. It's quite common, and I think it's more about violent homes. I mean, the idea is, is that when you've got couples who are abusive to each other in front of their kids, or where their substance abuse or drugs or alcohol, when you grow up in a family that there is violence, there's no sense off safety where you don't feel at peace. There's things are unpredictable, abused drugs, alcohol. All of this unpredictability causes kids to feel anxiety. So even the bull earlier he has a lot of anxiety inside of him, and he's taking it out by putting it on his sister because he's thinking that this is the way to vent. It's because there's nobody in the house, so I mean, if you grow up in a violent home, For example, everyone is busy trying to deal with the violence that's going on, that no one is really paying attention to the symptoms of what these kids are going through. But could it all be? Is it chalked up the violence at the home? Or is it just how parents are raising their kids? I think it's both. I've seen a lot of parents where it's normal. Thio if your son or your daughter gets out of line and this is you know, and I'm not saying Justin Quayle, I'm saying all over the world Give him a Spain. Let me come on like in the nineties or the eighties That was It was normal, you know, help. My mother spanked me when I was a kid, but it wasn't malicious. I would say,
spk_1: 25:40
Yeah, exactly. I think that's where the line is drawn because like you can smack their hand, for example, you can't hit them to the point where they have bruises like that's That's too far. You can't do that to anybody.
spk_0: 25:49
That's the line between spanking and even in the nineties, like they were trying to differentiate with people what is spanking and times out versus beating. Exactly. And I think some people are misinterpreting. It was thinking that they're really spanking, especially like and that time is like spanking can be a little bit on the hand or a little bit on the bottom, and then people misunderstanding them. But really using a lot of force was then, you know, So people were thinking that they're spanking, but they're really beating.
spk_1: 26:18
Yeah, to the point where it's even a joke, like people make jokes on Oh, I'll hit you with a stick like a little get a stick to hit you and it's seen as a joker. When reality. That's some families. They do discipline their kids in that way, and that's a horrible way to do it.
spk_0: 26:30
When I was in school here, that's how they disciplined us. When I was in government school, you did something wrong. You get hit, you get hit with one of those Really thin like Cain rulers was like what they used for the goat. Harder hand, right? Oh yeah, yeah, And if it was really bad, it was the feet. Take your shoes off, socks off bottoms of your feet. And that happened to me once they are caught smoking in the bathroom. So so s So what's their agenda? To show that there are bruises so you can always remember your mistake. No. It's the or authoritative way of disciplining through fear. I mean, let's be realistic. The Arab world has always disciplined through feet. Case in point. All the countries, all of our history, they still use that they don't use in government schools anymore. Now the students are beating up the teachers. So it's like, you know, it's it's going the other way. But I mean, in general, you said you were the youngest right now. I was three youngest of three siblings, my older sister and brother, and my father used to abuse them. And being the youngest, I escaped a lot of the abuse. So now my older brother, I guess he was a little different. There was some bullying and whatever. There was some bullying towards me because I never got what they got. Does that make any sense? Do you ever feel that's part of it? There's like a resentment because you never got the beatings, so to speak.
spk_1: 27:44
Yeah, I definitely think so. Because they do bring it up from time to time. They say, like, Oh, Dad treats you better than us from time to time and sell fair and things like that and I do tell them, yeah, that's not really fair but it is what it is. You can't take it out on me like it's not my fault. It's all my fault that I'm, you know, the youngest
spk_0: 28:00
they ever call you the tattletale, the group to be Oh, there. I've definitely been there and it's hard. And I think for me is I had established a relationship with my older brother and that went beyond him thinking I was the tattle tale. And I think it was because I understood where he was when my dad used to lay into him, so to speak. My older sister. On the other hand, we still don't get along to this day. She bullied me. I got six stitches on the top of my head. Oh, yeah, I I've been down that road. I feel bad for you because I know how it feels to be the youngest in a family, and it's tough, but has it gotten better over the years?
spk_1: 28:38
Okay, the thing is that my brother, he tends to do this thing where at some point in the year he becomes like the best brother ever. He's sweet, he's thoughtful and whatever, but then one day he just switches back and he kind of just starts to be mean again. Like right now, for example, he's being super sweet, like we were bonding today earlier over Batman Comics and things like that. We're just looking over and just have, like, jokes and whatever, but I still don't really believe, and I still don't trust him cause I feel like one day he's just gonna switch back like he always has before. So
spk_0: 29:07
you find him to be unpredictable. Of course, you don't find him to be the source of your safety or security. All and obviously, because you've got a long history of abuse from
spk_1: 29:18
you exactly. And that's why that's one of the things that my mom also doesn't get she like. If I tell her about how I feel, she says, Oh, but he's being really nice now, and I'm just like, yeah, but Ted Bundy once worked for a suicide hotline, but you still killed like, 30 women, so it doesn't matter.
spk_0: 29:32
Do you ever string any triggers together? By any chance? Like I know with my older sister, for instance, If I'm closer to my mother and my other sister, she starts to display more aggressiveness towards me, whether it be on the phone or whatever. So like, are there any triggers from your parents? Like if they're nicer to you or give you something or they give you a praise? Does that sort of trigger himto flip the switch?
spk_1: 29:55
No, I don't think with my parents necessarily. I don't know what triggers them. To be honest with you, it just happens. I I really don't understand. I think it's when I speak up. Mostly, like if I stay quiet, nothing really will happen. But if I speak up about something, no matter how nice I say it, he tends to flip and goes against me
spk_0: 30:12
because he wants the spotlight. Sounds like
spk_1: 30:14
he sounds like
spk_0: 30:14
when they were growing up that he wasn't the spotlights because, you know, kids boys are getting abused by their father. Then they could be dismissed. Yeah, and then it sounds like you being the youngest or the girls had the spotlight at home. So in a way, he was tryingto get some spotlight off of you to see if he's a narcissist theory. Earlier, you said he's a narcissist and we all know narcissist love. But, like they want to be idealized, they're constantly looking to receive attention. Admired, they have no sense of empathy. Says sounds like we had here. So he was a narcissist in the making, and no one really knew it. Yeah. Zia Full narcissist. Now you think, What's his life like now?
spk_1: 30:52
I don't know. Like I said, I he's very are married. No, no, no. He has a job now. He's
spk_0: 30:57
way too from college. Yes. Okay.
spk_1: 30:59
He's been working for a few months now. Okay, Andi. I mean, yeah, he's being sweet. Now. He's, you know, he's great and whatever, but I still don't trust that I don't know what's going on is like you'll ever do. Maybe. I don't know. I still don't trust him, so Yeah, because he still has, like, certain beliefs that I don't really accept. So it's I don't think is gonna happen.
spk_0: 31:20
Now, I know that you also have a thought, or you did seek psychotherapy toe work on all this abuse. So how long have you been in therapy
spk_1: 31:28
now? Ah, a year.
spk_0: 31:30
A year. And how do you feel like it's going?
spk_1: 31:32
It's going great. Actually, I'm really happy that I done something about it because a year ago I was suicidal. I would self harm. I wouldn't leave my room. I wouldn't talk to anybody. I would just stay in my room. And at one point I went to the hospital because I had, like, a really bad panic attack, and I got dizzy and I couldn't really like focus or anything, but now are more confident. I feel like I I'm or to mistake. I haven't self harm for a year now. You tell me when
spk_0: 31:59
you're so farm started.
spk_1: 32:00
Started last year in May, the end of
spk_0: 32:02
me. Why last year? Because that was a few years after the abuse.
spk_1: 32:06
Yeah, I'm not very sure. I think so. She anxiety probably triggered it.
spk_0: 32:09
Social anxiety, Probably. Except when you first started school, the university,
spk_1: 32:13
it was Yeah, it was like a year into you need
spk_0: 32:16
a good
spk_1: 32:17
time. I've always had, like, social anxiety symptoms that wouldn't diagnose myself as a kid, but I think I still have the symptoms anyway.
spk_0: 32:23
Social anxiety.
spk_1: 32:24
Yeah, And I just think that maybe because it hasn't really been treated right now yet I start to develop depression because of it. And yeah, I think that's where it really started. It just happened randomly in May,
spk_0: 32:34
and you mean self harm started in May And did you realize it was so far away? What kind of thoughts were you having when you were self arming?
spk_1: 32:41
You know, I would think like, Oh, I'm don't really matter. I shouldn't really be here. You know, I should just leave the world. I mean, what's the point? Not really going to go anywhere and things like that, and I won't say what I did, but I knew that there was a chance where I wouldn't sell farm, but I just felt like I had to do it, so I did it anyways, So I left like, 34 cuts on my hand. And if anyone asks I was Seo like a cat scratched me or something like that so they wouldn't really know.
spk_0: 33:06
And then you said at one time you went to the hospital for so side.
spk_1: 33:10
I mean, no No, just a panic attack. But it was like it was more severe than my usual. Like I got dizzy. I couldn't really focus. Aiken, stand up. I had to go really fast. And you think I was 16 at the time when it happened. So I went to the hospital. I was panicking. I couldn't breathe or anything. And they just told me Yeah, it's just stress and they just to start me and they let me go, which I don't think is good. To be honest, I think they should
spk_0: 33:30
have ended that day. I was gonna say they're not process that they don't have anyone. Especially now. We do have psychiatrists in all our hospitals. Yeah. Then I call into then think this is was important.
spk_1: 33:40
No, they just put a bunch of wires, check my heart great and all of that. And they just said I was just stress and that's it. They just let me go.
spk_0: 33:46
Everything is stress. I love the way when they can't diagnose you properly. They say it's dress.
spk_1: 33:51
Yeah, seriously, they just let me go. And I now that I'm old drive. That's not the right thing to do. They should have, like, asked me questions. See why I was stressed. Maybe there could be something going on. Refer me to somebody I don't know. Like you shouldn't just be, like, always. Just get out of here like that's just not right away.
spk_0: 34:07
Right? So here you are. It would have been your good chance of getting some help. Yeah. What? Lee? Someone to be able to diagnose you properly. Exactly. And then you don't even get diagnosed properly. It was dismissed by stress.
spk_1: 34:19
Yeah, although I didn't go to school the next day. So that was great. Yeah, a couple of
spk_0: 34:23
days you could have taken. Nowadays, everyone's all first rate. Exactly. A So it's very disappointing for you to be able not to get the right therapy or the right treatment until you get to college. And then you go to the counseling center and someone's as well. Sounds to me like you're having panic attacks.
spk_1: 34:40
Yeah, is very shocking. But the same time I wasn't that shocked as I did my own research. I know you're not supposed to like Google Simpsons and I diagnosed yourself, but I knew something was wrong. I knew this isn't right. So I Googled. Then I was like Mom looked like there's something wrong. She's like, No, that's not true. Whatever. And I'm just like, Mom, come on, like, don't be Arab right now, too. So why
spk_0: 35:00
was you so much against this idea that you might have a mental
spk_1: 35:03
illness? I don't know. That's what's was really shocking because she had a psychology book for kids. Why can't you just believe that I might have symptoms now like they didn't make anything,
spk_0: 35:11
anything that was about,
spk_1: 35:12
I don't know. I don't know what's going on with my mom, like you feel like, Oh, she would get it. But then when you go to her, she doesn't really get it 100%. So it's very confusing. And the Yeah, that's why I stopped kind of going to her. I'd rather just talk to my friends or go to my therapist, and that's it. Really go to my mom, right? And, you know, and that's
spk_0: 35:30
like, brings us to another thing that I think we've talked a lot about in our boat gases. Even today when I was doing these videos are coming up for a TV show, but it's constantly reminds me of people will do anything tow, avoid realizing that Ma there, kid or they or someone they know needs psychological help. It's very interesting. The other day I got a phone call from someone who had seen me on TV whatever and then said, I really like I think you're really talk a lot about psychology and a really good way and approachable and on and on. And I really learned a lot from you. And then what? I notice in that hold 15 minutes conversation on the phone. So anyways, he googled me and found me, got a number called and
spk_1: 36:12
then I was thinking to
spk_0: 36:12
myself, If everything is going so the whole time on the phone is making it look like everything is great in his life. So
spk_1: 36:18
I was sitting
spk_0: 36:19
on the other end, thinking, Why is he calling me like if everything is great, Don't get me wrong. He kept those. And don't get me wrong. I'm very strong. I have managed many things in my life, and then I was like, still waiting for the ideas like, you know, But I have this and I have that. I'm like what sounds to me like you
spk_1: 36:34
do have
spk_0: 36:34
some issues that you really need to address beyond this phone conversation.
spk_1: 36:38
No, no, no. You don't know. I'm really
spk_0: 36:40
I can handle a lot of things. And, you know, I don't have a problem. I study psychology. I love psychology, but nothing is wrong with me. But I'm experiencing these symptoms. Like like the whole time. This person. 15 minutes, He was struggling, and I said to him, So if you're open minded about psychology, you obviously listen to what I'm saying on social media and you're calling me. So, um, use that there's something wrong, and and something doesn't have to be wrong. Maybe you just need to explore maybe something you need to work towards. I mean, why does everyone have to sit there? So he spent a whole time, called me for a reason. But then I don't understand what that reason is. Because he was spending the whole time trying to tell me how strong he is, and he was calling a cardiologist's. Do you think he would have said that he would have probably called the cardiologists and told the cardiologists. Look, my heart is doing this. Does this and then the doctor would have said to go to the hospital to your nearest hospital, and that's it for me. He was trying to convince me that he really doesn't have any issues, even though he's calling me. And then it looked like from that conversation, there's a lot that was going on with this person. I mean, it's a constant struggle of my parents. Wanna wait? I mean, I've had so many cases where the parents of the kids came and told their mom several times like you, there's something wrong, Mom, something is wrong. My brother's doing this or my uncle is doing this or in people in the school. Or forget about doing I don't feel good. I'm depressed. I'm thinking of killing myself, and the answer is wood. It's OK. It's just a phase. Seriously, what's wrong with being able to say Okay, Obviously this kid is coming to their parent, which they're supposed to, and tell you that something is not feeling right. Just like if I come and I say, Look, I don't feel right, my temperatures high, I'm squeezing. I don't know what right away my mother would have taken me to a doctor. Ah, family practitioner. I don't understand. A kid is coming to tell you there's something wrong with me. My brother's doing this. My friend is doing this.
spk_1: 38:35
Do you know how
spk_0: 38:35
many cases I see sexual abuse or sexual inappropriate touching, where they've gone to tell their parents and the mom's like all But this is normal development. What normal development? I
spk_1: 38:46
don't know any
spk_0: 38:47
normal development that says it's OK to be touched because all of this, because parents, I don't want to accept that there's something wrong with
spk_1: 38:54
their Chae. Exactly. Yes, that's actually what I went through because when I told my mom that my brother was touching my thighs for me, it's so uncomfortable. So I tell him to stop, but he wouldn't and I told my own, she said. Did he think of it in a sexual way? I told her, and probably not. But it's bothering me. He said, always so it's okay. I'm like, I'm still annoyed. Can't you focus on me for a minute here? Like I'm bothered? I'm uncomfortable. I don't care like what he's thinking. What about me right now? Like I'm not feeling okay with this and so she kind of just dismissed it because he's not thinking of it in a sexual way. But that's not point.
spk_0: 39:23
That's exactly not the point. The point was, a tea is not respecting his boundaries. So instead of going to him and have a Congress, did
spk_1: 39:29
she ever go to him and have a conversation? I I mean, she's talked to him before, but not about this. I don't think.
spk_0: 39:35
I mean, whenever you told her about, you know, he was touching your side and she thought, Well, if it's not sexual, it's it's okay. But did she ever go on? Approach him and talk to him? Why was it all your problem? He's the one that was giving you the problem. Why was she looking at it as this is something, It's your problem. You need to deal with it.
spk_1: 39:51
Exactly. I sold that. I don't know why she thought of it that way, but that's old. She spot off. You know, in my teen years, I think that was the issue is that she didn't really tackle. I shouldn't really talk to him, although with the him touching my thighs, I did tell my dad, and that's where it stopped. I think it's because I almost cried when I was selling him because I was just so fed up with what's going on. But even then, he didn't seem to receive it very well. He's just like Okay, okay, well, it's not like he didn't even comfort me or try anything. So even then it still wasn't very comforting.
spk_0: 40:17
Brother was never held accountable. Did he ever get hold accountable? Left all these years? Have you ever paid the price of what he's done to
spk_1: 40:24
you? Not really. They just talked to him and that's it. There's nothing really happened.
spk_0: 40:29
You're still living under the same roof under the same poor boundaries. Exactly. Same thing, same thing. Nothing has changed except that you're going to therapy. And no, you know how to protect
spk_1: 40:40
yourself anyway. And also he's being super sweet at the moment, so I'm kind of taking that as an advantage from Ohio. When did
spk_0: 40:47
all this bullying stop?
spk_1: 40:48
It's back and forth, but it stopped, like a year ago.
spk_0: 40:51
A year ago? Yeah, and so you feel a little bit safer
spk_1: 40:53
at home? Yes, I do. By still try to somewhat be careful with what I say in front of him or what I do, because I sold kind of a little scared. Thio trigger something, and then we fight it than my dad says Stop fighting or deal with it or whatever. And it's just like a cycle over again. So I'd rather just be careful you.
spk_0: 41:10
But it's so makes me so upset that the victim is always the victim. Like here is you've tried several times to reach out to adults, and here the adults are talking to you about it when instead of going to talk to the bull ear, I mean and this happens the school also, it happens at work also, where the person who's bullying the co workers are bullying the kids. I don't feel like they get enough consequences. It's always there trying to teach the victim how to take care of yourself, for the victim to have the doll. These, like, you know, behaviors to protect yourself. But I don't feel like they don't really. You know, the perpetrator never really gets reprimanded, or he should have been removed from your house, to be honest.
spk_1: 41:49
Yeah, no, I agree. A lot of my friends said the same thing. When I told him about what he did, they said, Oh, yeah, you should get him to jail like get him to jail and out of here And I said, Like, I can't really do that cause of my mom And it's a lot to think of. You want your brother to go to jail, and there's not even much proof either, so they probably won't even do it. But put your family through that to make them take unknown to your extended family. It's It's a lot. And this year's wells. I have asked my mom before they go, Why don't you tell him to stop? Why don't you talk to him? And she says, Oh, he's old enough to know what to do. So like she knows it's wrong. Kay feel like whatever people God will judge him and whatever. And I'm just like, Yeah, but you know, he's still doing something wrong. Even though he's an adult, he still kind of needs to learn that this isn't right, because, I mean, I think this is
spk_0: 42:30
gonna be a repeated behavior. I mean tomorrow, when he has his own family's own kids. If
spk_1: 42:34
no one
spk_0: 42:34
has sat down and he should be the one getting therapy and see, that's another thing is is that here the victim is required to go get there, Be such like you are the victim. You're going to get therapy. So that way you can go get over a lot of this abuse that happened to you. But no one is making him or forcing him to go to third. So that way he can kick in process this bullying, they can process this abuse. And that way you could be a better father about a husband, about a friend. I mean, now he's gonna move on from this toxic environment to another toxic environment where he's just going to repeat without having being taken. Your parents have a name. They really help a dating. Hold him accountable?
spk_1: 43:15
No. And I've talked to him about it before. I've told him like, Oh, like white. Have you ever thought of like going through therapy or something like that? And he said, Oh, I don't really believe in psychology. It's all crap. It's not true and whatever. And both of my brothers have that mentality where it's not all true because they think that it's not 100% facts. It's just assumptions, so they don't really believe in it. And that's why they think that therapy is stupid and I don't need it. A medication is whatever, and it's it's really hard to get to them when you talk about psychology,
spk_0: 43:43
so you've never really confronted him. You've never had a session where you and him can sit down and be able to confront him. But all the hurt feelings that you have toward him,
spk_1: 43:52
no. But I have, like, told him before, that doesn't seem to really do much anyways.
spk_0: 43:56
I mean, in therapy, as your therapist ever recommended, that this is a process off something that you want or write a letter to him where you could at least tell him what he's done. Or do you feel like you're ever going to be ready to do
spk_1: 44:08
that? I don't know, because I still don't really trust. So I don't think that he's really gotten better with his actions cause he's always switching back and forth. So how am I supposed to know if he's gotten better
spk_0: 44:18
and when he's not gonna get better? If he doesn't go to third be
spk_1: 44:20
exactly, and I don't think he will want to go, ever so I don't really know what to do about it, he said.
spk_0: 44:25
Why don't really get your problem to do anything about him? I think what you need to do is to be able to come work on protecting yourself. But it's also, I mean, the least that he could do is be able to apologize for what he's done to you. But he'll never get to that level, since he's never been held accountable. I mean, sounds like still in your family. They're not. They're not really seeing it as something serious. Even though you've developed social anxiety, panic attacks, you know, depression. So sidle, ideations, self harm. You've developed all of that because of the situation. But you were in
spk_1: 44:58
yeah, and the shoes because it was in the past. They think, oh causes in the past, whatever. It's forgotten. But I haven't forgotten that I'm still being affected by it every day. So no, it's not really in the past, this self pretty much here, and yet still nothing is really happening, and I think that's one of the issues with having toxic family member here in Kuwait or in the Middle East in general because they just don't see it that way. They don't really believe much about in psychology and about how family can be just as bad as a friend or as a stranger, because their family, their blood, it's okay like you have to have them around all the time. You can't cut them off for anything like then. I think that's toxic thoughts like this. Very toxic to think of.
spk_0: 45:37
It was pretty, pretty, pretty tough. I mean, it's a tough situation. I mean, in all honesty, you know, and I can relate to it. So I'm just kind of taken back. It's a very relatable issue for me, you know, growing up with my background and it's just it's really tough because usually there's no way out until like you get older and hopefully your older brother matures a little bit and you know, things kind of get better. But if your parents aren't really stepping in, that's where it's gonna get harder. But on the flipside, he's got a job, mainly, he's gonna get married soon. Once he gets married, hopefully
spk_1: 46:10
he's gonna get married and he's going to repeat
spk_0: 46:13
this with his wife and his kid. You can't force him to go get psychological. Not really. Her, at least it's
spk_1: 46:19
not her responsibility to get him help. But where are the parents? Why are the parents not trying to cure him now? He's gonna be somebody else's problem. Some other woman's problem, another family problem and this cycle off violence will continue.
spk_0: 46:34
I mean, Dr D. Let's be realistic psychologies and new topic in Kuwait throughout the Middle East. Like not a lot of people know about psychology. They don't understand the psychological implications that beating your child has. They don't get it yet. I always equate Kuwait to the United States five years ago when it comes to psychology and when it comes to child abuse, abuse of females in general, I look at it like we're still in the 19 seventies. It's This is why we're educating and this is what I mean. Her parents are educated, well talking. My parents, who are not educated, who are primitive in their own way.
spk_1: 47:09
We're talking about educated parents who they
spk_0: 47:12
themselves are intimidated by the bull ear who happens to be their son
spk_1: 47:17
that have never taken the time toe hold him accountable. Why is it hard
spk_0: 47:21
fault that she has to get treatment for herself,
spk_1: 47:24
for things that she didn't even develop? She is getting psychotherapy because she was put in a position where her brother inflicted pain. And now the person who inflicted the pain their perpetrator gets to do what? So they're afraid
spk_0: 47:38
of him. They don't want to confront him. And it's not to talk about your parents. But the sad thing that this happens all the time. I'll get people in my office. Will there bring the victim who needs help, which does? But then they'll never bring the person who inflicted this pain. For example, let's say, Ah, Father, who cost so much abuse, physical and emotional abuse to their child.
spk_1: 47:58
They'll bring the kids for me to work with. But then they've never asked the father
spk_0: 48:02
to come. And whenever you suggest that as if, like I just says something from how ah, where's the father? We need to confront him. We need to talk to him, you know. No, no, no, no. He will never come. No,
spk_1: 48:13
no, no, no, no. She's very difficult character. No, no, No, no, no. You don't want to
spk_0: 48:18
deal with him. That's all I'll say. I want to hear. I hear I'm like No, no, no. I want to deal with him because it is not fair to identify this person as the identified patient when really there is another person who should be held accountable, It Let's be realistic in the world we live in. It's not like that. It is that I'm living in this world. It's not why not? Flower? You're still you're still not over your sister's abuse. And look how many years it is. You
spk_1: 48:44
still haven't worked
spk_0: 48:45
on your relationship with her. I have my issues. I've worked it out so we don't get a little bit. I don't know, but I don't need to work on my relationship with her. Why now? Because in my opinion, for me personally, and this is just my personal approach at life, if you cause me harm, if you cause me mental harm, if you annoy me in any way which disrupts my family and when I say my family like my son basically, then you know what? I don't need to talk to you. I do that with a lot of people in my life. Whether it's my mother, my father, my sister. If there are certain points in time where they stress me to a point where I know it's toxic and I need to back away because it starts to affect the other facets of my life. I do that. But that's not the right way of doing it. That's just my way of doing it personal for other people. It might not work.
spk_1: 49:29
Yeah, yeah. No, I get it, though. Yeah, I wanted to cut out my brother,
spk_0: 49:33
this silver lining for you. And I think this is commendable. This is extremely commendable that you are seeking help. You are taking steps forward. You are doing the right thing. And that is braver than not actually going forward and doing what you need to do by getting help. The you are extremely brave and heroic. To be honest with you, that you are taking these steps forward to better your life and to make sure that you don't do this with your Children. So Okay, her brother's not doing it. But look at the example that she's setting.
spk_1: 50:01
No, she's doing a great job No,
spk_0: 50:04
I mean, there's nothing about She is doing a great job, and actually, she wouldn't even realize all the all the abuse and the intensity of it. She wouldn't even have inter peace if she wasn't getting the therapy. She's kidding. The ideas is, that is, when you are asking the person to get there be because they're improving themselves. But they're still living in the same household where there is violence, then that's really doesn't really improve the situation she's in. And the ideas is that toe kind of water it down and make it sound like it's gonna be somebody else's problem. I can't wait till he gets out of the house. Now he has a job, and the tomorrow he'll get a killer were watering it, Harry watering it down for her sake. I mean,
spk_1: 50:43
why do I need to water it down?
spk_0: 50:44
You've got issues you can't force him or the parents, you know? I don't know. I hold. Actually, I'm sorry.
spk_1: 50:52
She's let's find it's not about her.
spk_0: 50:54
My idea make it look like about She's already taken what she needs to do, what I'm saying that parents have the
spk_1: 51:00
legal responsibility. Toe also hold him accountable. I'm not talking about her. She's doing the right thing.
spk_0: 51:07
Do you know why? Because she went somewhere where someone identified and said to her, You've got anxiety because she's a college student who studying psychology. And she became aware. But think about the thousands off Girls are like her, who are not even in college, who are still 13 and 14 and 15. And the parents are not holding the bull ear there. Son responsible for this. That's what we're talking about. We're not talking about her getting there, and that's very true. Why are the parents not stepping up? I'm a mom. If I ever, ever get any idea that my son is bullying my daughter, you will see him first if he's alive. If educated people. That's people that understand educated parents but her past educated. Don't you guys do case you're not? They're not educated in the sense that nothing to do with me. Oh,
spk_1: 52:01
yeah, but my mom says you can't in psychology for kids. Shouldn't she have known this?
spk_0: 52:04
But I mean, come on. If you know, no offense to the parents, No offense. Your parents, they're so didn't want to approach the sun because he's a bull ear because parents avoid the aggressive child. So father used to bully the sun, right? I mean, in their steps. Parents here, people in general, in Kuwait, they don't take psychology or they don't take that route. And we know what we had. The lady from a ball of Shaw. This is not about psychology. While you keep on bringing psychology, What is not about psychologists about parents holding a child responsible? I
spk_1: 52:37
don't care who you are. You'll have to be a
spk_0: 52:39
psychologist to realize that hitting. I
spk_1: 52:41
mean, right now we live in
spk_0: 52:42
this 21 center where you can Google damn thing. You can look up YouTube. You
spk_1: 52:47
don't even have to come to cycle. Now it is. You can do everything online. You don't even need
spk_0: 52:50
to come to my office to know something is wrong. The
spk_1: 52:53
amount of education
spk_0: 52:54
we get the abound off Netflix. These people are seeing the amount off TV that they're watching. And you don't think her parents realize that they
spk_1: 53:03
No, no, no. You know what happened?
spk_0: 53:04
Just like a lot of parents do. They don't want to deal with the troublemaker.
spk_1: 53:08
They would rather deal with the nice
spk_0: 53:10
child. So because the troublemaker Oh my God, he gives you a headache and sees these bull ears are so aggressive that you
spk_1: 53:17
don't want to deal with them, so you would rather
spk_0: 53:19
hamper them. Put them aside. Pretend like, Oh, I hope you graduate and get a job so you can be someone else's problem because we don't want to do with it.
spk_1: 53:26
It has nothing to do with education. I mean, her parents are educated
spk_0: 53:29
and they're still like this because we don't want to deal with things because
spk_1: 53:34
I'm apparent. You're a parent. You know why? Because
spk_0: 53:36
we take it personal. When someone comes to me and says, Your child is aggressive Suddenly I feel like I'm defending all the aggressive people. Eyes is it don't want a deal or don't know how to deal. He
spk_1: 53:48
could be both,
spk_0: 53:49
but I think most of the time way try to avoid. There's a picked A lot of you don't want to. And don't my experience. I say the majority don't want to deal with it because they assume
spk_1: 53:59
I love the way people just brush everything
spk_0: 54:01
under the carpet development. This is the norm for sibling rivalry. This is development. Well, if you don't know, look it up exactly like when she comes to her mom and several times and says the same thing. Granted, maybe she didn't understand When she's saying, My brother is bothering me. Yes, I hear my daughter saying, My brother is bothering me. You know, when she says a couple of times when she comes in and starts elaborate about certain thing for four years, you don't think I need to deal with it. I'm a parent. It's my job. But again, if they don't know how to deal, if they don't think so,
spk_1: 54:35
No, I think the issues with effort, because they have talked to him before we started things, but that didn't stop him. He's still doing some things that they told not to do. But their mentality is, Oh, he's old enough to know as long as we've told him call, ask a feel like he could do what he wants and that I don't think that's right. But he saw us be held accountable. That's your child, of course, Yeah
spk_0: 54:53
and Hollows. K five's not doesn't work
spk_1: 54:55
exactly because he's like an adult so like it's his life. But that's still not right. Like you wouldn't said. So
spk_0: 55:00
we're living in the same fire is just going to say like if it's my kid, do you're living under my roof? My rules? That's how it was in my dad's house. That's how it wasn't my mom's house. That's how it wasn't my sister's house. When I stayed with her for college. It was like under my house, my rules. If years earned rules, I had to follow them. Me and my brother get into fights and you know, she pin both us against the wall and she was like, Look, you both and my sister's tiny. She takes both of us by our throws, puts this up against the wall. She's like, Look, you both cut the shit right now or you're out of the house and that was it. And from there on, we didn't really have any fights after that. But I mean again, like if your parents don't feel like deal with that, then that's a whole different story that's on them. At the end of the day,
spk_1: 55:42
Maman and
spk_0: 55:42
I mean that we have to give them credit is like. I'm not sure if they don't want to do with it, or they were brushing it under the idea that maybe he'll grow out of it. Or now that he's an adult, it just seems like there was a lot of excuses that has didn't help you. I mean, that's the point. The point is, is like again, as I said, you know, always the victim. I feel the victims always paying the price. You know, Yes, you could get psychotherapy. And yes, you need to for things that he inflicted on you. Yes, you're doing a good job, and it's bravery to admit that you needed to work on these things. But it's difficult to be working on these things and going back to the home. That still is the house. That kind of these are where you experienced it to begin with and not feel safe. Still, at this age, to continue not to feel safe, I feel like it is it's brave from you to be able to talk about and educate parents in general about the tea stinks does happen. Your house is the same thing as like abuse, we always think, is the strangers does D abuse. We always think it's then next door neighbor and we never really least likely. It's the least likely. I mean, we all know statistics of sexual abuse. You know, the statistic is the least likely it's gonna be a stranger in the street Most of the time. Most all sexual abuse cases happen with people you know, exactly, because there's access and they're exactly there's access, and you know that the secret will be cut because they all believe you. So the idea is, is that I mean, what is it gonna take from parents to stop defending against their own parenthood skills and look at the situation? I'm in the reflection that this is not a reflection about your parents and their bad parenting skills. It was more about to your brother who developed narcissistic tendencies, and these narcissist is a personality disorder, you know, it's nothing that your parents could have done. Maybe was the abuse maybe nods because a lot of times the Narcissus, some narcissistic personality disorder, has nothing to do with abuse. So it could have been that this is part of his personality, and actually, if they would have just accepted it and got him help. Then maybe they would have changed some of his narcissistic tendencies.
spk_1: 57:45
Yeah, but I feel like they think because he's being nice, that's it's gone in a way, But I don't think so. This happens a lot like I tell my mama every time she tells me Oh, he's being nice. I felt her. Yeah, but he always switches back doors. Yes, I don't see and you're never gonna
spk_0: 57:58
feel safe with him. And I hope that you one day you will get to a point where you could confront him. So that way you can breach your inner peace, then what happens with people that have abused us? What we need to do is reach that inner peace, regardless of these individuals are going to change or not. And I think one form of treatment is that once you start thinking about all the pain that this has created, going into details off, why would he do that? Getting over the idea and the anger of his abuse toe also the last they should be reaching that inner peace, the forgiveness, you know, forgiving him. But you're forgiving all the negative feelings that he gave you. I think that's the best form Off healing is that you have to reach that inner peace and that on Lee it's going to be received once you forgive him.
spk_1: 58:48
Yeah, I agree. That's actually one of my personal goals is to try to, like, forgive him, but for myself, not really for him. And I'm trying to get there. It is hard, but you know what? I'm still trying.
spk_0: 58:58
Yeah, it is hard and it takes time. I think sometimes it takes several years off getting to know yourself and forgiving yourself, forgetting your parents. I mean, there's a lot of people you have to forgive get there. And I think sometimes people like don't want to forgive because they think that they're doing it for the other person. And like I said, like you said, it's not about him. It's about you to your process of your healing, reaching that inner peace in order for you to be able to get that.
spk_1: 59:22
Yeah, I had that belief where if I forgive him for giving it for him and not for myself, and I used to try to avoid forgiving, but now that I know better, I am tryingto somewhat forgive what he's done for myself and, you know, try to get better and move on you
spk_0: 59:36
because you know that if you don't reach that forgiveness stage, what's gonna happen is that you're gonna use a lot of negative energy. Hold onto all those negative memories again is self actualization that inner peace doesn't come with Having a lot of negative energy comes with a lot of positive energy. So you gotta be able to release some of that energy to convert it into positiveness and the only way to do it And believe me growing up, I have so many people are so angry at and my family in my household. And I felt like until I got to a certain part of my life in that area and I was like, Feels like, Why should I forgive them? They don't deserve my forgiveness. And then I realized with long term psych with her B before it became psychologist, I realized this is not about them. It's about me. I need to do it to be able to be really healthy person. And it has helped me a lot. So now whenever I look at those situations. I don't look at them with that intense anger anymore. I look at them with a little bit more a piece whenever I have an image of what happened,
spk_1: 1:0:30
Yeah, it's actually somewhat similar with it the moment like, I mean, I haven't really 100% forgive him, but I'm I'm definitely not looking at it more of a negative, you know, Thing that's happened, I tried to somewhat process it instead and think of as you know, this is how I am now. Because of what happened. I probably would've been different. Yes, but you know, it's it happened, Yes, So just try to process it and move on.
spk_0: 1:0:52
I think that's a great way of looking at it to be also the appall check. He has a podcast. He's written several books on the hero's journey. He's probably the best person that has ever explained it, and you taking those steps forward, toa better yourself in the end, like that's That's part of the heroes like that's you being hero in society and not even known it because you are taking these steps forward. You're gonna educate more people, and I think it's awesome. What you're doing. And I just hope it gets better for you to be honest with you. Like what you're doing is amazing. It's just stay strong. That's true. And thank you for sharing your story. I know this was very intimate information from your side, and I think we need people like you to come on podcast to be able. Now we can sit here and I can talk about it all. In theory, obviously I teach, so I know how to do it. But I think we need more people like you are gonna educate people by their own experiences. We can you imagine how many people you've gonna touch and who's gonna hear your story And maybe some parents will wake up and realize what our kid is also saying This Let's investigate some morn and let's see me. Or it could be other girls like yourself where having that sense of rashness and their thighs or they're having these panic, feeling that they don't even know it's a panic attack. And a lot of times people go to the hospital thinking they're dying of a heart attack and turns out to be what they call stress. You to attack. But thank you so much for being here and for your time and for educating us to be honest, for we learn from people like you. Yeah, thank you so much
spk_1: 1:2:16
for its shadow to my sister. Though she did help me throughout these years, she noticed something was all fun. She, like, was there for support. So she was always supported from the very beginning.
spk_0: 1:2:26
That's nice. And I think that's another thing. I think social support and finding support within your own other siblings or even family members that can really hear you out and reach out. So it's nice.
spk_1: 1:2:37
Yeah, actually, I realize that in the earlier years of the abuse, I used to take it out with my sister. We used to fight a lot, and I like physical fights like it was not settle. And, uh, we usually have, like, sleepovers. Or she would sleep in my room, which is like, really sweet. And one day we were just like, you know, we need to stop that seem to stop this like fighting. It's not okay, it's not us. And ever since then we we wrote like a letter to each, like each person, and that's it. Then we stopped fighting and we became, like, best friends after that. That's great. Seeing
spk_0: 1:3:03
amazing. Yeah. Shout out to her. Yeah. We need more sisters like that.
spk_1: 1:3:07
Yeah, I agree.
spk_0: 1:3:08
Unless brothers like that. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed it, please head overto iTunes to subscribe rate and leave a review. You can also find us on Instagram at the project Kuwait. Thank you. And join us next time.