Breaking the Bottleneck: Brooke Dukes on Overcoming Founder Dependency for Sustainable Growth

In this enlightening episode of Living the Dream with Curveball, we sit down with Brooke Dukes, founder and CEO of BMD, executive coach, and host of the *Burn On Not Out* podcast. With over two decades of experience in the business world, Brooke reveals a critical truth about founder dependency that many entrepreneurs overlook until it’s too late. She shares her insights on how founders can become bottlenecks in their own companies, hindering growth and team empowerment. Brooke discusses her flagship program, *Success by Design*, which offers practical strategies to help leaders delegate effectively, establish decision-making frameworks, and ultimately break free from the daily grind. Learn how to shift your mindset from reactive to proactive leadership, prioritize important tasks, and align your company’s vision and culture without losing sight of what matters. Tune in for actionable advice that will inspire founders to embrace their roles while fostering a thriving organizational environment. Plus, catch a glimpse of Brooke's upcoming projects and her journey from burnout to balance.
www.brookemdukes.com

Transcript

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 0:00

Welcome to the Living the Dream podcast with Curveball. If you believe you can achieve. Welcome to the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast, a show where I interview guests that teach, motivate and inspire. Today's guest is someone who has spent over two decades inside the engine room of growing businesses. And she has uncovered a truth that most founders don't realize how critical it is until it's too late. Brooke Dukes is the founder and CEO of bmd. She is an executive coach, she is the host of the Burn on Not out podcast and she is a former Fortune 500 strategist that has helped organizations grow to tens of million in revenue. Brooke work focuses on a critical issue and that is founder dependency. So we're going to be talking to her about that and why she's so passionate about her work and bmd. So Brooke, thank you for joining me.

>> Brooke Dukes: 1:23

Thanks for having me.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 1:24

Curtis, why don't you start off by telling everybody a little bit about yourself.

>> Brooke Dukes: 1:29

Well, I have been, this is my fourth company that I've started and this, my previous companies were really focused on very large firms, so billion dollar organizations, hundreds of thousands of employees and what we decide to do is to take all of that intellectual property, all of that knowledge that we gained over 20 plus years and package it in a way that we could support small and mid sized businesses. Because what we learned was they're all experiencing the same types of problems. Regardless if you're a multi million billion dollar company or a organization that has three to five employees, typically there's one thing at ah, every part of a founder or CEOs journey that they run into and that is becoming the bottleneck. The reason why that is, is because what helped you and what you really had to do in starting the organization and making it successful was be the visionary and be involved in all of the decisions as you're making it go. I mean heck, you could even be a solopreneur. So you're making all of those decisions. But what you quickly recognize is once you hit a certain level of growth your, you start recognizing that, oh my gosh, I'm becoming overwhelmed, I'm getting burned out and you almost start and I've been here, which is why this is my fourth company that I've started. And you really even start to fear the company growing larger because you recognize you can't take on anymore, you're already at your capacity and so then you see that your bandwidth has now become the growth ceiling for the company. And so as you mentioned in my Bio. That's really what we focus on with leaders in our flagship product. Success by Design is helping leaders to really put in a leadership operating system that instills clear decision rules. It defines ownership, who owns what, what project, what decision. It sets those boundaries. Because a lot of leaders, they don't have boundaries. They just go where they're needed and they fast and make this decision and that decision. And what starts to happen is you're so busy being involved in the day to day tasks of the business that you can't work on the business, on the things that only you as the founder and the CEO can do. Planning, visioning, all those strategic decisions, they're put to the wayside because you're stuck in the weeds. So that was a very long description, but hopefully that answered your question.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 4:45

Well, I know you said something really powerful when you talked about growth doesn't kill organizations, founder dependency does. So unpack for the listeners, what that means.

>> Brooke Dukes: 4:58

Well, I said a lot of that already. But what founder dependency means is that decisions, any decision the team starts bringing or not starts, but they continue to bring all decisions back to the founder. They're the last say, which may sound good in theory, but what happens is teams start waiting there. What, because one person can only do so much. So project stall, teams start waiting, they start getting disgruntled prod, you know, things get opened back up, decisions that were made get opened back up. There's so many areas where founder dependency, it's not a good thing because then what also happens is you're, you're training your team not to be empowered. You hired them for a reason. You hired them because they were capable of the role that you're giving them, but you're not allowing them to do that role. And so it's really helping a founder to understand that by keeping their hands in all of the pot, they are the ones that are slowing the growth of their organization and their teams.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 6:23

Yep. And you're right, you did say a lot of that. I just wanted you to get that part that you just put out as well. And why do you feel like, from your experience, why do you feel like so many leaders do struggle to let go even though they know they need to?

>> Brooke Dukes: 6:38

I think a lot of them feel that they're helping. Right. It's the team needs, the support. It's also a habit. They also get in the mindset of, oh, I can just do this one thing, it'll be quick, I can do it faster. Right. If, or even the mindset if I don't do it, it won't get done or if I don't do it, it won't get done. Right. Well, here's the thing. And we worked in my last consulting firm, we did work with Amazon and one of our team members came over and he had worked directly with Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos has a rule. Whether you like Amazon or not like Amazon, you have to recognize they are successful. So that's neither here nor there. His rule was 80% and it's out the door. If you take the time to make something a hundred percent, you have now cost the company millions and millions of doll because that 80% is what's needed to execute. And so that's really what a founder needs to understand is. Yes. Could they potentially do a better job? Well yes, they're the founder. They're the leader of the company for a reason. However, they have to be focusing on only the things that they can do because there are many tasks that only the founder is capable of doing. No one else can. Right. They need to be the one to do the strategic planning. They need the one to set the vision for the organization. They need to be working on the company and allowing their employees to work in the company. And it's a mindset shift. It's which is why it's a cliche. Cliches or a cliche for a reason. The founders trap the founder so many times is the reason why companies start stalling growth and even why companies fail is because they don't understand how to shift. They have to change the way they think and the way that they operate. Once the company gets to a particular level, my opinion, it's about six employees and over. You really have to start. You have to allow your team to be able to do what you hired them to do. And it will cost you so much more by staying involved than any mistake that could potentially have by you not being involved.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 9:19

Okay, well I know you helped scale an organization to 54 million and I don't know if that organization was Amazon or not.

>> Brooke Dukes: 9:27

no, it was not. But yes.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 9:29

What were the structural changes that m made that growth possible.

>> Brooke Dukes: 9:34

So that was one of the things was this founder bottleneck. And that is a lot of what we put into success by design is really allowing the. Some of the things that we start implementing right away. We eliminate decision reversals, we install decision rules. You would probably maybe or maybe not be very surprised at ah, how many organizations don't have rules around decision. Who is the final say on any particular area of the company. That's decision rules, defining approval thresholds, right? Mapping out that ownership, who owns what, and reducing that escalation back to the founder. And, many. One of the main things that they had there, and many companies do, is even when a leader feels like I am delegating, I told them that they need to do this. However, if they have to check with you before finalizing that project or that activity, then you have only delegated the task. You have not delegated ownership. So you're still the bottleneck when it comes to that. So you have to learn how to transfer that authority. You also have to learn. One of the things that I learned early on in working with large companies, and we've put it inside this, the capsule of success by design is what. It's the Eisenhower matrix. Have you heard of that?

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 11:19

No, I haven't heard of that.

>> Brooke Dukes: 11:20

Yeah, well, it was President Eisenhower, and it is a matrix that he used to support the generals in World War II. And, it's broken into four quadrants. And what it does is it helps a founder or a leader, any leader. You don't have to just be a founder to prioritize what is important and what is not, what needs your attention and what doesn't. So one of the things is a lot of leaders get caught up in focusing on things that are not urgent and they're not important, and it's really a distraction. It could be questions that teams have. It could be spending time in emails or focusing on things that are not. They're not important and they're not urgent. Those need to be eliminated right out of the gate. Month one. We help them to eliminate, though, to identify and eliminate those. Then you have things that are urgent but they're not important and that can be delegated. That does not need a top leader's attention. Because what that and why those things are happening is because there. It's called reactive leadership. Leaders are putting out fires all the time. They're working on things that are urgent and important. Well, yes, they have to execute on that, but there's a reason why it became urgent because you weren't proactive. You're reactive. You're putting out all of these fires. You're focusing on things that you should have delegated or you should have eliminated. And, and the important things are becoming urgent. Where a leader needs to focus is on things that are not urgent, but they're important. And that takes time. That takes getting rid of the things that are not supporting you and it takes time to get proactive in your own business. And it's very important because that's 80% of the time a leader wants to be focusing on things that are not urgent, that are important and not urgent, and that only they can do. No one else in the company can do it. And then 20% of the time, of course, you have to support the team. And there are some things, There are some exceptions to every role. So those are some of the things that we've taken from those large companies. And we are put it. We put into success by Design because it's leadership as a whole. It does not matter what size your company is. Leaders are all dealing with this.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 14:03

Well, talk about how you and your company balances, maintaining a company's vision and culture. Why. While reducing founder dependency.

>> Brooke Dukes: 14:13

Well, that's what we worked on a lot. So that would be in our consult. So we've been talking about Success by design, which is our capsule, and that is, it's one call a week. And then we have an integration AI program. So it's a fast, easy, inexpensive ways for leaders to do everything that we just talked about. And then for those, we do some consulting engagements as well. And so that's what. When we would go in and a leader would say, okay, I see what. The changes we've been able to make by going through Success by design is fabulous. Now. Now I want to put it into practice in my organization, and I want to focus on culture. Culture is, in my opinion, one of the most important things to do within an organization. And that starts with values. The values of the company. They need to become the way that your team communicates. And so that is one of the first steps as we look at. Given your vision and your mission. a lot of times we have to work on vision and mission with companies because vision is a measurable target. It is. I, This company will be$100 million in five years, or this company will have 300 clients in five years. It's a measurable target. A mission is why you're doing something. So a lot of times we have to work there first because that's the starting place. Because your values then align with that. So what values? Given your vision and your mission, what values do you want people to live by while. While they're in your company? Of course, we can't tell them how to live outside of the company, but what values do they need to adhere to while being in the company? And that's something we do a values workshop with the top leaders. To really understand what that looks like. And then we create ISMs, which for one of our companies, fun was one of their values. And so the ism was fun, gets more done. It's just a catchy sentence or a phrase that you can use to help start integrating the values into the fabric of the company and making it the communication. And we do various things and we support on them creating, you know, a chief people officer, hr, whatever they want to call that. So that then those values and the culture becomes, it gets woven into the reward and recognition system of the company as well. And that of course then goes into leadership training and down to sales and all of that.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 17:04

Well, for company, for a founder who might be listening that feels stuck in the day to day talk about one practical step that you would recommend that they take this week to get out of that, that issue.

>> Brooke Dukes: 18:37

Well, one of the first things that we do in success by design and is very simple. Anyone can do this. If you want to really look at how the decision structure in your company is affecting your company is we ask our leaders to track every single decision that crosses their desk in a five day period. I'm not talking just big decisions, I'm talking every decision. And then we look at those and then you put them towards that. And anyone can Google the Eisenhower matrix. We did not make that up. As I said, that was President Eisenhower. You can put that towards the Eisenhower matrix and you can say, okay, what do I need to eliminate? Where do I need to put in these rules? Where do I need to give ownership away? You can really, I say it's easy but we wouldn't have success by design if it was so easy. But it is something that a leader can do right away that they could do today after listening to this podcast.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 19:37

Speaking of podcast, tell listens about your show, what we can listen to it and what we can expect when we listen to it.

>> Brooke Dukes: 19:44

well, ours is called Burn on not Out. That is the same name as my book as well, which you can get on Amazon. And what we focus on are leadership issues for founders, CEOs of SMBs. And so every week I talk about a lot of the things that we're doing in success by design. So there are practical tips, There are aha moments, there are things that you can do right away to really make an impact in your organization. To start removing yourself from the day to day. Which if you really, if you want to grow a sustainable company, that is something every leader has to do. They've got to start removing Themselves from the day to day minutiae of the company.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 20:38

Well, looking ahead, talk about how you see the role of founders evolving in today's business, landscape.

>> Brooke Dukes: 20:49

Well, I feel like we can already. There has been quite a shift since COVID and beyond on leaders really understanding a bit more that there is life outside of their company. And more and more leaders are recognizing that. One of the things we teach you are your number one best success strategy. And what I mean by that is if you don't take care of yourself, if you don't make yourself a priority, your health, your happiness, if you don't take time to play and to really connect with yourself, everyone has inside of them their own success operating system. That is your intuition, that is your gut. Right. However, that is your connection to God, source, universe, whatever you want to call that. And I feel like prior to Covid, a lot of people lost sight of that and they were purely working from, from the mind.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 22:07

Right.

>> Brooke Dukes: 22:08

And it was very masculine energy, which has nothing to do with gender. It's just there's masculine frequency and feminine frequency. Masculine is force, push, grind, make it happen. And we're seeing a shift towards more of that feminine energy, which is not chase, not force, not make it happen, but attract. Right? It's that ease, that flow, that attract, that slowing down and in recognizing that you can get more done in less time when you're not stressed out and burned out, when you're not overwhelmed, when you're taking time for yourself. And I feel like that's a big shift that is starting to happen and it's going to continue happening more and more as time goes on.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 22:55

Well, tell us about any upcoming projects that you and your company are working on that listeners need to know about.

>> Brooke Dukes: 23:01

Well, within success by design, we have what's called oz, and that is our little wizard behind the scenes. And what that allows our members to do is after they have their weekly calls with other founders and leaders that are experiencing the exact same things that they are experiencing, it's a way to get, to integrate what you're learning, to really track, to make sure that you are doing the work. Because it's one thing just to learn something, it's another to integrate it into your day to day work life. And so it allows you, it supports you in really owning your activity, holding yourself accountable. It takes two to three minutes a day and you can actually chart your progress right there within us. So you can see here's the progress that we're making in all of those in our decision Stability in ownership and delegation in our execution in the company. You can see your progress and you can see how you are. We are all about commitment, consistency. So building the habit and then letting the habit get your results. So you have to integrate what you're learning or you're not going to get the results. You're going to go back to what you've always known, because that's what human nature is. We go back to what makes us feel certain and comfortable. This helps take that out. And so we are launching Oz Within Success by Design in June. And so that's very exciting for us.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 24:53

Well, so people can keep up with everything that you're up to?

>> Brooke Dukes: 24:56

Absolutely.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 24:57

They'll ask your contact info.

>> Brooke Dukes: 25:00

so we are at. my website is brookmdukesm.com I am Brooke Dukes on every social media site. You can get my book on our website or on Amazon. Burn On Not Out. And our podcast is also Burn on not, out. It's on YouTube, Spotify, Apple. All places where podcasts land.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 25:24

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that book. I almost forgot to tell listeners what they can expect when they read it.

>> Brooke Dukes: 25:31

Yeah, it's. I. It's a really. It's my journey up until it's 20 years in the making. We're actually working on our second book right now, but. But it's a wonderful example of what happens when you get burned out, when you're the bottleneck, when you're overwhelmed. So it's some of my personal stories. It's also strategies that can be implemented right away. so it's a really amazing book for any leader or founder who is finding themselves. Like I was waking up and thinking, man, I thought I would feel so much better once I reach this level of success. And I don't. I'm pretty miserable and I don't even know what makes me happy anymore. And I'm not sure which way to go. And that was my story. exactly. And it talks about the pivotal moment. Gosh, over man. It was 30. No, 24 years ago now, when I left corporate America and why I did it and how I've never looked back and how I've built four businesses to this point.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 26:49

We'll close this out with some final thoughts. Maybe if that was something I forgot to talk about, that you would like to touch on any final thoughts you have for the listeners.

>> Brooke Dukes: 26:57

I don't think so. I think we've done a good job of hitting everything. I. And really, my vision, my purpose in life is to help people to understand themselves better and to create a life that brings them not only success but fulfillment as well.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 27:19

All right ladies and gentlemen, book m dukes.com that's amazing, Mike. Please be sure to check out our book and our podcast and if you know of any founders or leaders who are struggling with this issue, found a dependency, please follow rate Review Share this episode to as many people as possible. Also, if you want to get the behind the scenes of the Living the Dream with Curveball podcast and know about releases and all, things Living the dream, go to www.craveball337.com and if you haven't done so, sign up for the newsletter. Share the website to everybody that you know and leave us a review and drop us comments or suggestions. Thank you for listening and supporting the show And Brooke, thank you for all that you do and thank you for joining me.

>> Brooke Dukes: 28:12

Thank you, Curtis.

>> Curtis Jackson (also known as DJ Curveball): 28:16

For more information on the Living the Dream with Curveball Podcast, visit www.crave curveball337.com until next time, keep Living the dream.