The Inner Cages That Stop Us From Living Vibrant Lives

Welcome to Woman Uncaged, Season 5, Episode 15!

Something wild happens when we stop looking to the world outside us as the source for what's holding us back and start naming what’s happening inside. In this episode, we get personal about the “inner cages” that keep so many of us from living a vibrant life, even when we’re doing all the right things. We talk about the quiet rules, the old stories, and the invisible pressure to be “good” that can turn daily life into a performance instead of a magnificent adventure.

We unpack how anxiety works as an inner cage, especially anticipatory anxiety, and take a look at the sneaky ways fear disguises itself as preference or personality. Are you truly introverted, or have you learned to call hiding “who I am”? We also challenge the cult of practicality, productivity, and optimization, and make space for the enlivening choice, the one that brings juice back into your days even if it is not perfect on paper.

If you’re craving women’s empowerment, personal growth, and a grounded approach to courage, this conversation will meet you where you are and nudge you toward what you want. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s ready to expand, and leave a review to help more listeners find us. What’s one inner cage you’re ready to question this week?

Resources Mentioned:

The Delicious Pull of an Erotic Life, Episode 14 of Season 3 Woman Uncaged

Lianne Raymond, Coach

Transcript

Welcome And The Uncaged Theme

Linda 0:02

Hello everyone and welcome to Woman Uncaged. This is episode 15 of season five. I am Laura Gates Slepton and I'm here with my beloved friend, one of my dearest Ms. Linda Katz, who is looking lovely today in the lighting. I don't know what you're doing there, Linda, but the lighting is so pretty. I turned on a ring light. So I'm not just in shadow. She's been complaining about how dark it is in Texas. Well, it looks lovely from here. Earlier today, I was thinking about Linda, and I was thinking about just she's made the cutest face. I was thinking about how I love the way she approaches life. Like not just her viewpoint when it comes to work and stuff, but her own life. And I was thinking about this because she really encourages me to think about how I approach mine. Um, but I love Linda that you're not somebody who's, you know, like you're thoughtful about what you do, you have lots of aspirations and ideas, but you don't really bow to pressure. It's like you can feel pressure. I know you do sometimes, but you don't bow to pressure. And I was thinking about just sort of, you know, that whole idea of being uncaged and how like I never heard anybody talk about it the way you talk about it until you we get to know each other, and how you really live your life in a way where it's very thoughtful, very you you live by your wisdom, you have a lot of fun and you're spontaneous and you're very much a free spirit in lots of ways. And somehow you manage to do that in this crazy world, it does put a lot of pressure on women. And how I just really love that about you. I love that you play, that you figure out how to, you know, bring your art into your life. I love that you've managed to reconcile with being multi-talented and multi-interested, all the things that we're told we're not supposed to do, like we're supposed to be focused, we're supposed to be this, we're supposed to be that, you're not supposed to have lots of irons in the fire. I love that you manage to create a life that's true to you and not true to any of those shoulds. And it just makes it such a joy to be your friend, and it's so inspiring to me. And I'm so glad to be here with you today.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Oh, thank you so much, Laura. Gives me the warm fuzzies.

Outer Cages Vs Inner Cages

Linda 2:21

And I'm so glad to be here with my dear friend and my co-conspirator and all things podcasting, friendship, joy, women's liberation, the designing of a very uh provocative app that we just talked about. It's probably not coming out, guys, but you never know. Um and it's funny, you know, when I was hearing you say that, I was because I was actually thinking of you, it was maybe like yesterday or the day before, and it's related to this top podcast topic that we're going to be talking about today. Because so many of the things that you shared about me, I could say ditto. And you have this way of intentionally crafting your life, like having watched you craft the life that you want to live over the last three, five years, um, talk about inspiring. And when it comes to um any inner cages, you know, like really meeting them and breaking through them and saying, like, you know, when you came to visit and it was your first flight in 20 years, and like everything that could go wrong did go wrong, you know, but what you could see, you're like the life I want to live includes this expansion, it includes travel, it includes going to see friends and visit new places. And so I want to confront this fear that I have because this is the life that I want to live. And this is something that I've been really like drawing upon as a well of inspiration in my own life. Like as I've been noodling on, you know, how do I live with and move with the moments when my anxiety like really flares up or fear really flares up. And you were such a wonderful model of that because you were like, no, this is the life that I want to live. And I'm not speaking of bowing, I'm like, you did not bow to any fears or any of those inner cages. You're like, this is the life that I want to live, and this is how I'm going to get here. And so I fucking love that about you because there is just a talk about having like being such an inspiration, I think, to women to uncage ourselves is that it shows us what is possible, that it's like, go after your dreams, like go live the life that you want to live. And there's gonna be little bumps along the way, there's gonna be a flight that doesn't go quite the way you want, or something that goes astray or along the way, but it doesn't matter. Like the fact that you live in this beautiful, vibrant, alive way is just such a gift. So thank you. I just'm so happy to share that because you just made me think of it as I was listening to you. It's like, that's so funny because and it's exactly what we're gonna be talking about today, which is why I've been thinking about this with Laura, which is that what are these inner cages that can prevent us from living the vibrant lives that I know I at least yearn for? And there's, you know, there's the external things, there's you know, all the external shit that goes on, of which we talk about a lot. But I think patriarchy, etc. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Political climate, patriarchal bullshit, all of that stuff. Very real, very valid. And for me, I think the the hardest cage for me to break out of has been and continues to be, in a lot of ways, that inner one of confronting my own fear and my own anxiety when I am moving towards that big, juicy, creative, vibrant life that I really want to be living and that I imagine for myself. And that's why I've been holding Laura as this like this icon of like it's possible. Keep going. Um so yeah, I would love to know kind of what comes up for you around this. Well, first of all, I have to say, I just love that we inspire each other. That that thrills me in a way, you know. It's like I I really love that because yeah, you're so inspiring to me. So makes me a little teary, you know, just like how lovely, how lovely that we we get that, how lovely that we get to have that together. Um, so there's that. Um, I guess the other thing is that in my mind, when I embarked on the work with you when I was your client, I was very focused on the outer cages, right? Like those are the obstacles I could see. I could see them very clearly. And then as we got to work, like I you I heard you talk about inner cages and I sort of understood what they were, but as we got to work, then I was like, oh, okay, this is what she's talking about. And they were much harder.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Yeah.

Linda 7:28

They're and it's what do I want to say? It's almost dismaying when you have that point of recognition to realize, like, oh, it's the things in me that are actually really holding me back. It's like, yes, there are these outer things, but they're not nearly as challenging as my own limiting beliefs, my own perceptions, my own shoulds, all the stuff I've absorbed over decades of how a woman should be or shouldn't be. And then you can add in the other labels, like whether you're a daughter, wife, mom, whatever, you know?

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Yeah.

The “Good Person” Performance Trap

Anxiety And The Shrinking Life Loop

Linda 8:04

All those inner cages. And so if anybody listening to this feels that way, like, oh, it's so daunting, yeah, it it truly is. It truly is. And it doesn't happen overnight. But I really do feel like the joy of living comes from figuring out what your personal inner cages are and dismantling them. Yeah, okay, which begs the question, and I will share mine as well. What do you feel like have been or are currently, either or some of the inner cages that you've met in your own life or that you've seen clients meet in their own life? Yeah. Well, I'll answer both. I'll answer for myself first because it's different, and I think they're they're good examples, you know. We want to give plenty of examples so people might recognize this for themselves. But for me, probably the number one was this whole thing about being recognized as being a good person and what I thought a good person should do and who she should be and how she should show up in life. And it wasn't till I was working with you that I came to realize a lot of what I was doing was performative. It's like, it's like, yeah, I'm a good person. Like, it's not that I'm not a good person, but I was trying to act in a way that everybody else would know I was a good person too. Like it was so important to me. And I mean, people like people, cashiers in the grocery store, like not necessarily the people that whose opinions I really even cared about, but you know, doing things like making sure I weighed every bit of produce when I went to the grocery store. So the cashiers would know I'm a good customer, you know, like doing all the little things that make their job easier because I wanted them to know I'm a good person. Um, stuff like that. That sounds silly, but it if you're doing that everywhere, it takes up a ton of energy. And it also means that there are times when you're weighing something you want to do against what everybody else is gonna think. Like, is this something a good person would do? And not everything in our lives is we can never meet that standard. Like, and we can never meet that standard and actually meet a life or create a life that feels true for ourselves. Yep. And I remember when I realized I was making headway with that when it was my birthday and I went to the grocery store and I wanted to order, I wanted to get my favorite fruit tart for my birthday dessert. And the one that looked best to me was way in the back. So it was a pain for the person who had to get it for me. And I asked for it anyway. Yeah. And I remember that moment of feeling a little ouchy, of being like, Can I really because normally I would have been like, oh, I really want that one, but it'd be easier for them to grab this one. And that's so that's the one I'll take. I'm gonna make it easier for them. Yep. You know, and not that they would ever think, oh, that woman was so great. You know, she made it easier for me. She picked the one that was easy. They they're not thinking about it at all, but they didn't care at all. Yep. No, they don't care at all. Um, with clients, I'd say the number one inner cage that I well, maybe not the number one, but that one of the most prevalent is anxiety. And I mean, Linda and I've talked about this a lot, but the thing with anxiety is that people to try to mitigate anxiety, what they tend to do is try to take out the things that they see as being the source of the anxiety. And so lives get smaller and smaller and smaller. And when you do that over time, the fear looks bigger and bigger and bigger. It's like, you know, there's it's almost like the anxiety has a shadow of fear. And, you know, in order to make the life feel more livable, you get the try to make the anxiety smaller and smaller and smaller, you know, make the the things that you can do. It gets really limited. It's this tiny little circle, but the shadow gets bigger.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

Yes.

Cocoon Or Tomb Expansion Matters

Linda 11:48

Yes and I that's a challenge. It's not insurmountable, but it is a challenge. Yeah. I love and I feel like that's been the one that I have been. It's the the latest cage, I would say for me, is the anxiety. I went through uh very similar to Laura, that that good girl, the good person kind of cage of always needing to be a good person and somehow giving the person who a Motor Lawn, who I actually really actively disliked, driving him to a doctor's appointment and for 45 minutes away from our house because I couldn't say no, because I wanted him to see me as a good person. And I remember that was a huge thing for me was when I was like, this relationship is not working out. And Eric volunteered to be like, you know, I can go fire him. And I was like, no, for my own development, I need to go out and let him know that like this is this situation is no longer acceptable to me, and we are parting ways. Um good for you. Yeah, so that one was like, yeah. And now that one feels, you know, it still will occasionally show up, it's not like it's entirely gone, but it's so much less astute. Um, but I feel or like acute is the word I was looking for. Um, but the anxiety, whoo, shashnakana, that one is that one is a lot harder. And I think that um I remember speaking to you about this years ago, Lauren, you saying that, like about how if we listen to that voice, if we listen to that voice of anxiety and fear, life does just tend to get smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller because we tend to, that's how we approach it. It's a very common thing, is like I'm gonna I'm just gonna avoid the things that make me feel anxious. Unfortunately, what that means is that I'm avoiding more and more of life. And that's not that's not what I'm that's not what I want, you know. But it's I feel like there's been times, you know, when I was younger, I had ways of kind of numbing or disassociating, whether it was through, you know, an eating disorder, which gives like, you know, gives the mind something to hyper focus on. So you're not really in the body. Feeling of control. You feel in control. You're not you're completely cut off from your body and any signals that your body is sending. And I found alcohol, which was a way more fun way to do the same thing. Less control, but more like, oh, I could just shut this up for a little while. This is great. Um, and now I feel like this past several years is okay, now how do I, how do I do this in a more healthful way? How do I take up a relationship with my anxiety in a more healthy way? And I've tried for a while, it was the avoidance. And that really coincided, I would say, with COVID, which I would venture for many of us, there was this sense of like, oh, okay, I can just, I'm, I can just hunker down. I'm cocooning. I'm cocooning, and there's a beauty and a joy in cocooning. But when it's like we won't it, I'm gonna borrow a term from I can't remember her name, and it's kind of bastardizing a little bit her uh metaphor. But it's like we want the coom, the cocoon is meant to be the womb, right? Like that's literally what a womb is. It's the cocoon is when you're incubating and then the butterfly emerges from the cocoon. If you stay in the cocoon for too long, if you overstay your welcome, it becomes a tomb. And that's what I've really started to realize is that the contraction, the contraction is normal and healthy and a part of life. We see it in nature, we see it in the cocoons, we see it in winter, we see it in nighttime, we need to have moments of expansion and contraction. But and this is a phrase that I got from my former coach, Leanne Raymond, that when when we allow the contraction to become constriction, and that's when it becomes a form of death. That patriarchy tells us is actually a way to stay safe. But it's not, it's actually just choosing death. Um and that's been something that as I've been, you know, sitting with this, I'm like, well, what does that life feel like that I really want? What is that? How does it feel? What does it look like? You know, I love I love nature, I do like to travel, I want to see friends and family, and you know, like there's so many things that I really like yearn for. And I realize that in order to begin living that vibrant life fully, even more fully than I am right now, it's like oh shit, it's gonna come with a hefty dose of anxiety. But if I keep listening to the anxiety, if I keep making that like if I'm acting from that place, I will never live that life that I want to live. I will continue to watch it in other people's Instagram reels. Yeah, which is very poignant. Yeah. And I think that's what many of us do. It brings up like emotion for me. It's there's um it's really easy to to fall into that and to like covet, right? To covet someone else's life. But there's like rather than looking at like, oh, what is what is it calling forth in me? What is the unlived life in me that is wanting to be birthed, that is wanting to be experienced?

SPEAKER_03 17:26

Yeah.

Linda 17:28

Yeah. Well, and I think forwards. I love everything you just said because it's so real and honest and true. And if anybody's not relating to it, just think about times when you've either had an illness or for whatever reason you haven't driven your car for a while, and then you go to drive your car and it feels a little weird. It's like something you normally just don't think that much about, but you get in your car and you're kind of like, oh, it's I this is a little strange. You know, it's like I've had times I I love to drive. I drive all the time, lots of road trips, lots of miles. But there'll be periods when I haven't driven for a while. I'll get in the car and I'll be like, oh, I have to get on the highway. Oh, this will be weird. You know, it's like, I don't know, it's like I'll have almost like a weird little, not even anxiety, but just like a little stab of fear around it or something. I mean, that's normal and natural. I think we all just have that. We can contract and then it makes it harder to expand again. So I I realize not all of us have anxiety. So just putting that out there that it doesn't have to be about anxiety, it can just be about not doing something for a while and then approaching it again and feeling like, oh, I've let myself kind of shut down for a while. Yeah. I need to move back into this way. But with with the anxiety, Linda, that you were talking about, I think a lot of times too, what happens is the sensations are so uncomfortable in our bodies that that's why we're trying to protect ourselves from that. And we think that if we go out and do the thing anyway, it's gonna be so big. But often it's not. It's really more like getting through that initial whatever, whatever the sensations are, and moving forward. And ultimately, it's usually not always, but usually, I've experienced with clients that it's not as bad as they think it's gonna be. But the thinking about it thinking about it is so bad, guys. So painful. It's the anticipatory anxiety that causes more of the issues than actually doing the thing itself. Yeah. Doesn't mean it isn't scary, but still, go ahead, whatever you say. It reminds me, I can't remember who said this, but it's like anxiety always lives in the future. It's never here in the present, right? It's always spinning its tails about like, well, what could happen? And what if this happens and what about that? And you know, you're quoting me. There we go. I really love that. My newsletter. That's probably what it is then. I love it. It's true. Anxiety always lives in the future, and when we're trying to project ourselves into the future, we can't actually truly feel it or imagine it. And so it's very anxiety-producing. And I think it strips us of the power and the agency and the juicy life that we have in the present moment.

Fear Mistaken For Preferences

SPEAKER_03 20:09

Yeah.

Linda 20:10

You know, it's um we spend so much, at least for myself, it's like when I get into those spaces, it's like I can spend so much time and energy that I miss what is here, like all the goodness that exists right here and right now. And it's like finding the ways to come back into my body, come back into the present. And it's like one of the um like one of the things that I've kind of been working through is this sense I've been working through with my dog Ursa too, who is when the trainer described her to me, I was like, you could just have been describing me. Like it was like, oh, she's you know, she's very like she's very happy go lucky, but she's also really sensitive. So that shows up as caution a lot of the time. And I was like, oh yes. And I feel like there's, and you can see this too, even you know, um, because I'll go through phases where I will like follow all the dog trainers online and be like, I'm gonna train her um and like do all the things. And there's all these different voices and opinions around what do we do when your dog is cautious or fearful? Um, and like, do we coddle or do we don't coddle? Do we, you know, do we let them go back inside to stay safe or do we like work with them through their fear? And what I've started realizing with her, that is kind of the same as it is with me, is that I'm like, don't mistake your fear, Linda, or her fear for her preference. And don't mistake it for her or my own personality. And I think about this like my mom is someone who's had a lot of anxiety throughout her life. Um and so and then so I can see how easy it is to kind of allow it to become almost a a a personality, or like so many of our quote unquote preferences become determined by that. Like, oh no, I actually don't like going out and you know, doing, you know, whatever it is. And it's but I also look at when she was younger and I can see how, oh, but before that kind of set in, and of course, as you get older, I think sometimes it can become more and more pronounced as our bodies also but we become less certain of our ability and capability um in our own bodies. But I can see how, oh, but the real personality of who she is is so not that. And I'm like, oh, I I think that's hard to witness for me as her daughter. And then I'm like, it's also really humbling and hard to see the places where I do that too, where it's like, oh, I've mistaken this thing that I'm afraid of as like and I've turned it into a preference. Like how introverted am I really? And I think it's that's such a hard question because before I would perform extroversion because extroversion gold star in our society. Good job, Linda. Perform it, be out there. But then on the flip side, introversion can become almost like a a cocoon or a shield or something, a blanket that you put on for myself. And I'm like, where is the truth of who I really am? And I don't think you find it out by sitting in your bedroom thinking about it. What if I read a book, Laura? Oh, there's a quiz. There's a quiz you can take and it'll tell you exactly, and then you know exactly how much you should be out in the world.

unknown 24:08

No.

When Practicality Becomes A Cage

Linda 24:11

I could create that, it wouldn't work. No. Yeah. I love that. And I think it is that it's the it's going out and experimenting, getting past the initial anxiety that comes with things, you know, like we as we've talked about before, like going out and doing meeting new people and recognizing like when you get there, like, oh, did I really enjoy it? Like, or what parts about it did I enjoy? And what parts, eh, not so much. And like, was it one person? Was it multiple people? Did I like the person? Did I gel with them? Like, you know, all of these things. It's like parsing them out. And um yeah, just getting curious. I think that's my thing of like, okay, let's get curious about what is what is true here, what it and what is where is that cage still intact? Yeah. Well, I think recognizing too that preferences aren't like written in stone and they don't always apply. Like there'll be times when you prefer something, and there are other times when that doesn't appeal. It's you know, but we tend to want to nail it down. Yeah. Like to know, like, oh yes, I always like going out on Friday night. Well, some Friday nights, my fantasy is at six o'clock, I'm gonna crawl under the covers with my sweetheart and we're gonna take a long nap. That's my that's often my Friday night fantasy after a long week. Does not fit the college girl that used to love to go out. But you but other times when I'm more well-rested, or if it's a vacation week or whatever, I'm like, yeah, let's go out to dinner. Yeah, let's go to a movie, let's go do whatever. And so I think there's that too. We can tend to want to like systemize things and nail them down and be like, I always do this. And that also to me is not a vibrant life. The the rules and the always and the never, that become that's its own cage. Yes, that's it's that's its own cage instead. And there's one other thing, this is kind of an aside, but one of the other pieces that when we were thinking about this topic that came up for me in terms of cages, I would say also in our culture can be practicality can become a cage from a vibrant life. Like always making the practical choice, the choice that is good on paper. Like that too. I'm like, there's uh yeah, what comes up for you around that? I'd be curious. Well, it's funny because just yesterday somebody told me that what they appreciate about me is how practical I am. Um which is true, I am, but I I'm if you think about how I've been living my life the last two years, it's pretty impractical. There's nothing practical about nomading around. That is true. Like my mom commented not too long ago I was carrying some heavy stuff. She's like, wow, I can't believe you can carry this stuff. Like, I've been carrying everything I own in and out of places for the last year. Like, of course I can carry out this stuff.

unknown 27:09

Yeah.

Linda 27:10

You know, there's so much like I don't think joy is, I mean, it does have practical applications. Sure, it makes us happier, it makes us more fulfilled, it probably bleeds over into other areas of our life. But by itself, you wouldn't say, Well, I'm gonna put joy on my calendar today because it's very practical. You know, it's like some of the most fun things, some of the most joyous and nourishing things are spontaneous and aren't necessarily practical.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yeah.

Share Dreams With Safe People

Linda 27:35

You know, I I I think maximization, optimization, the emphasis on productivity, all of those things really take a lot of the juice out of life. Mm-hmm. I feel like that's you know, back in kind of what I wrote about in Homecoming, that to me belongs in the realm of the Tyrant King. That kind of very harsh, practical, numbers-based. Um it kind of reminds me of uh the episode that we did. I can't remember if it was season three or season four, uh, on the erotic decision making and you know, the difference between making the the decision that is erotic versus the decision that is practical. And that, and by erotic just meaning like the one that is enlivening, the one that is actually saying, like, yes, this is what I I'm I want this. You know, I so I can give an example for myself. I had been waiting uh to see if my parents wanted to travel to Sweden and Finland this summer uh to see my nephew's high school graduation, to visit family. Um and then my parents had decided that they did not feel comfortable doing that. And so I was like, okay, well, I, you know, I've I have friends that were going to on a different trip. And I was like, okay, I'll I'll I'll go meet them instead. But like I didn't book the trip. Like I was just like, why am I not doing it? I like need to make a decision if I'm gonna go. And then all of a sudden it was like Eric and I did our Saturday morning card poll. And there was something in those cards where I was like, fuck it, I want to go to Sweden. Like that's why I that is what I want is like I want to go, I want to see my oldest nephew graduate high school. I want to walk the streets of Stockholm. I want to see my brother and my family. Like that is that's what I want. And it was not, it's not practical, right? Like I'm only going for a week, which you know, most people are like, oh, if you're gonna go like that's a long trip to just be gone for a week, you know, you should go for at least two. But it was like, no, this is something that I really am wanting. And does that mean that it's like everything when we make those decisions that are enlivening, that everything's gonna be like sunshine and rainbows all the time? No. But there is a different energy, I think, that is released when we can those times when we do make those decisions versus the ones where we make the practical ones. Like the practical ones, they're very grounding, you know, they're come they're solid. But when it comes to vibrancy, very rarely does it feel like I'm like, I made a vibrant decision, baby. That's so true. I mean, last week when I decided to drive all the way from New York to Minnesota, like when I didn't tell anybody I was gonna do that because I knew some people would freak. I told Linda, she's the only person I told. I knew it was a possibility, and then I didn't hear from Laura at all. And I was like, that crazy Mo went all the way, didn't she? She told Linda 16 hours. I did. I drove 16 hours by myself. I've always wondered if it was possible. So part of me wanted to satisfy that question, but also I just really wanted to get home and really wanted to get home to my guy. Um, because we were really missing each other. And he was so excited when I told him I was a few hours away. I said, guess what? I'm coming home tonight. And he was super excited. And it felt very like it wasn't, it was exhausting that the act of it was exhausting, but it also felt enlivening. It's like, I'm not spending the night in a hotel tonight that I where I don't want to be. I'm driving home to be with my guy. And you know, and it was that so yeah, it's like that kind of decision where it's not always what looks good on paper, you know, it's not what other people might think we should be doing, yes, but what feels enlivening to us. Yes. It kind of overlaps in some ways with the the good person or the good girl cage in the so often the things that are practical. It's it's it can be intertwined with what we think other people will think or how they will see us, or if they'll be like, Oh, what are you doing? You know, yeah, dump their anxiety on you. I'm 59 years old and I was aware that my mother would not be happy with this decision. And so I was like, I'm not gonna tell her. And I waited until I was like two hours from home. I texted her and said, Hey, drive's going great, you know, beautiful weather. I've decided to push on through and make it all the way. Cause I figured by then she could how worried could she be if I'm doing great and it's only two hours to go, you know? Yeah. Um, but I mean, I don't want to think that way. I don't want to make my decisions based on what makes my mother comfortable. But I admit I was thinking about it. Yes. But I love the strategy too. You're like, I'm just not gonna say it because it's like you can feel, at least for me, I'm like, I can feel that worry then and that anxiety and that feeling of somebody being worried and anxious and concerned about you is so diminishing of our own capacity. I think this is why everyone needs a Laura in their life, who is like not that. You know what I mean? Like it is such a fucking joy to have people in your life that will see you in your wholeness and your fullness and your potential and for how capable you are, because it will remind you that you are that, versus people will oftentimes share their love through concern. Yes. I'm thinking about the time that you were gonna ride, go horseback riding on the beach, and your father said, Oh, I hope the horse doesn't see a snake. That thought had never entered into my mind. Mine neither. And then once he said it to you and you said it to me, then of course the whole time you were gone, it's all I could think about. You're like, oh no, I hope the horse doesn't spook. I was also really mad at your dad, whom I've never met. But I, you know, because I thought, oh, what a way to poison this beautiful experience before she even gets there. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yep. Yep. It's and that's why I think it's your strategy, is a really great strategy. Is like, don't say everything, you don't need to tell everybody everything. Like, no, if you have those people, oftentimes they may be our parents because I feel like that's what parents do. They worry about their children to, you know, sometimes greater or lesser degrees. But it's like that's all oftentimes the energy that comes through. Or when my dad told me, like, oh, you're going swimming by yourself. Like, I was going swimming in the pool in our backyard. I've swam since I was four years old. And then the be careful. And I was like, what could possibly happen? And then it goes into some story of some random person who died playing basketball. And I was like, what does this have to do with the pool? And she's just like, well, nothing. I'm just like, what is going on? I was like, well, thank you for telling me the death report again. But now those two things, like, they're linked together in his head because this person had a heart attack playing basketball. He was probably outdoors. Linda, all of outdoors is dangerous. I was like, oh my God. So it's like, I have to remember, I have to remember that, you know, because if I'm not in a fully like resourced grounded whole place, other people's anxieties can easily, if we have, like for me, when I already have some of my own tendencies in that way, other people's, especially family of origin, they can just like prop right in there and they fit into a little place, you know, that already exists, like a little cutout in my body. And then it's just like boop, there it lands, and now it's there forever. Oh no, what if the horse sees a snake? You know, it's always gonna be there now. There goes that romantic vision. Okay. I have the same thing, and I do. I mean, I'm always talking with my clients about being careful who they share their dreams and aspirations with, especially early on, you know, in their as they're kind of trying to step into this more expansive, joyous life, because we all know who the people are in our lives who are gonna shut us down. And we have a tendency to want to go to those people. It's in part because we I think we feel like if they approve, then I'm golden. I'm like, this is a good move. I know for sure. Chances are they're not gonna approve though, and they just shoot us down. Sometimes it's spouses, sometimes it's siblings, sometimes it's parents, sometimes it's your neighbor.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

A friend, yeah.

Linda 36:10

Yeah, it's like we all have people that do that, and so those are not the people to go to when something is tender or you're trying to do something new, or it's taking courage for exactly all the reasons you just said, Linda. It's because like they just they mirror back to us the part of us that's most afraid. Yes. The part that is diminishing and the part that is, and then that's why I feel like we feel diminished, and then our lives start to feel diminished, they start to feel smaller. It's like you don't want the person that's gonna throw a blanket over your flame, or you know, you want the person who's gently gonna be kind of blowing, blowing on it and encouraging it, like, yes, like tend to this. Let's see how big it can get. Yeah, so true. I mean, I don't know if I've talked about this here before. I know Linda well knows this, but I had this long time fear of sleeping in a hotel by myself. And I've had so many hours of coaching on this. So many coaches have tried to help me with this, and it's just nothing really helped until I just started doing it. Um, and then I two different friends reached out to me. Linda was one and another as well, and just said, I just want to point out like, you not only are you traveling all over by yourself, but you're staying in hotels by yourself, and presumably it's going well. And I'm just sort of amazed, I can't believe it that you've like broken through this thing that was really holding you back before. And the way that they both mirrored it to me was really affirming. And it was just lovely to have people say, like, I've noticed this. I've noticed that you've broken through this thing that was really plaguing you. And I just wanted to say like how inspiring it is and how joyous it is to see that. And like, those are the people that you kind of you want to share things with that they will hold them tenderly and who can cheer you on when they see you taking these steps that they know are hard to take. Instead of, you know, neither of them called me up and said, Well, I noticed you're sleeping in hotels. Do you know how many women get assaulted in hotels? Did you actually hear about what happened in the motel sex on levels? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's what my dad would do, you know, like, well. Make two of our dads. Laura and I sometimes joke that we're like, did we come from the same family? We think we have the same dad. But yeah, and it's but I think that's part of it too, is that sometimes courage is contagious. I think oftentimes it actually is contagious. It's like when you see the people that you love in your life making courageous moves, moving towards the life that they want, like you did, like confronting those fears, because it was like, oh, I yeah, that used to scare the shit out of me, but I want to be able to do this because I want to be able to drive, I want to be able to have that autonomy and that freedom. Like seeing people who do that, it then reminds us again, fuck, if that's possible, then that could be possible for me and whatever those things are in my own life that are holding me back. Yes. And we can begin to meet ourselves with that greater curve. It's like it's just, it's not quite the rising tide lifts all boats, but kind of, you know, it's like it kind of just catches on, like a really positive contagion. It's like when somebody does something really kind to you, like if somebody's like just randomly you experience a random act of kindness. I feel like the natural human impulse is to want to pay it forward. Like you like, it just it compounds upon itself. I think it's the same thing with courage, it's the same thing with kindness. It's like when we embody those things and live them into being just naturally the people in our lives that we touch. There is a quote that it's like, I become more possible, like through them. Yes, I think that's true. And I think it also happens within us. Like when I have times when I'm afraid of something, I'm reminded of the things that I can do now that I thought I literally thought were impossible. I I thought I was a person, like it was a part of my DNA that I couldn't sleep in a hotel. I could stay in them by myself. I just couldn't sleep.

unknown 40:13

Yeah.

Vibrant Living At Any Age

Linda 40:13

I thought that would be me forever for my whole life. And now I go to hotels and I sleep. So it makes me wonder like, what else have I believed about myself that's not true? Yes, that's amazing. It's that piece. It's like when we mistake our fear for our personality. It's it's just this part of who we are. And it's like how that diminishes our lives and what we want to be doing. And it's yeah, you begin to question, you're like, well, shit, exactly what you just said. Like, well, what else? How where else am I doing this? Where else am I uh thinking that this is just part of who I am? And it's just uh, you know, a coping mechanism or something, you know, like that we've picked up along the way. Yep, yeah. And I I think well, I mean, there's so many things that once you start questioning them, can open up a bit. It's all kinds of things, you know. It's like I've never really been that fond of eggs, but my partner really likes eggs and when he makes eggs, I'll try a little. I'm I'm starting to like them now. I never would have thought that was possible. I've I've been like I've like like two ways, like scrambled eggs and boiled eggs, and that's it, you know. If they're in something, I don't mind. But in terms of like just eating eggs, you know. Um, but Linda just did a little twitch over there. I'm also not a huge fan of eggs. I don't I don't actively dislike them, but they're not my facies. Yeah. That's been true for me too, but because he makes brunch a lot and he'll make eggs, and he's tried to make them more the way he doesn't make them super soft. I don't really like that. Um, yeah, just making a face. The runny ones, no. Yeah, like not at all. But it's expanding my ability to eat eggs, which sounds silly, but it just things like that make me think, well, what else am I holding myself back from? What else am I just thinking? No, I've decided about that thing already. I've decided for the whole my whole life what's true for me about whatever that is. Oh my god, my poor dad. He's just getting like the runaround on this podcast. But like that reminds me of my dad is like, what if you offer him anything with yogurt or sour cream or any kind of sour dairy product, he will tell the same story. He'll be like, I've spit that out the first time my mom gave it to me when I was two years old, and I've never eaten it since. Like, it's exactly that. It's that same. Meanwhile, we've secretly made him smoothies with yogurt. And he's always like, This is delicious. What is this? This is a yogurt, is it? I'm like, it's ice cream tad. He's like, Oh, it's so good. But it's it's that. It's like, and I do that too, right? It's like, I don't like peanut butter, I don't like it, and it can be these small things, but again, they're the like what you were saying before, like preferences can change, they can expand. And as they do, even if it seems like it's something silly, like eggs or peanut butter or dairy products, it's like a little, it's like a worldview, kind of just there's an there's an opening, there's a possibility that then you begin to uh take that perspective into other areas of our lives that they might even be more impactful. Yep. That's so true. It's you know, and it even when they're small things, they do add up to questioning other things that we've decided about ourselves. Yes. And I I personally, that's one of my favorite things about being a coach is watching that happen with clients. Um, I loved it with my kids too when I was parenting young kids, like just to watch them suddenly open up to something that they had decided wasn't for them. Um, I just really loved seeing that because it's it is that kind of um discovery that's joyous and that's like, oh, oh, like I didn't know. I had you know, I had these ideas that aren't necessarily true. And so what else? this mean about who I could be and what might be possible for me might be possible yeah and it's just such a joyous beautiful there's an innocence to it there's that sense of possibility that growth that I just absolutely love seeing I do it I love that too and I feel like you just perfectly described vibrant living right like I think that vibrant living really is that's I think that's a core tenet for me at least when I think of it it there is that that growth that sense of discovery that moment of wonder that possibility that opening of the heart that opening of the mind where before there was you know just a brick wall and all of a sudden you're like shit there's a window and maybe there's a door you know what I mean you're like wow just like life is expanded in this way and I'm like that's what makes it vibrant like that's the that's the juice is that continual process that we could get to do for as long as we're here. Yes. You know which is a such an important point. That one of my clients who's a little bit older than I am said to me yesterday how she was shocked at how so many people around her are talking about feeling old and they're like our ages and I was like me too this is happening to me too and so we had a little discussion about it and both of us agreeing like we don't want to do that at this stage of life. We want to be more alive and we want to be more in tune with what we want to go for and you know not feeling shut down because like she just she's a little over 60 and I'm about to turn 60 it's like you know like why why at 60 do you suddenly think well I can't do that anymore. Right I'll spend my life in front of the television now I guess you know I just don't get it you're like I have so much more to experience and offer and receive and yes and so much more energy. I just I want to you know for me I just want to be doing things experiencing things and connecting with people which I think is also a part of vibrant living having those deep connections with people and and allowing for the time it's not like a drive by like oh we had a 20 minute conversation it was so nice. But we caught up on everything that's new in our lives what's going on with you okay now what's going on with you okay bye yes it's so much deeper than that and I think that's also for me at least a part of my definition of vibrant living is the connections to other people and nature and things too but just having those like beautiful people in my life who really know me and who I really know and to maintain that connection. It's not just uh oh it was so good to see her I'll see her again next year. Yeah. Well it's like without that we don't have those people who can celebrate with us and mirror back to us like look at how much you've grown like remember when you didn't think you could do that thing or whatever it is like yeah you know that and that we get to be there for other people and to to witness and cheer on one another's growth. I a hundred percent agree that that's part of the beauty beauty and magic of life. Yeah I do too I do too and I think that's one of those things that goes by the wayside when we're focused on productivity and maximizing and optimizing and practicality. So boring it's so boring so boring so boring don't want to live a boring life oh no no no I think I think that's something that I want to be aware of all the time 100% yeah it's been a fun conversation it has been a fun conversation and we'd love to hear from you dear listeners what are the inner cages that you might be bumping up against what is they keep you from living a vibrant life whatever that may mean or look like to you and what might what might be needed or nourishing or supportive to help you to begin to break break free of those yeah I mean I know at least one coach that would be open to a conversation I could think of one too it's Laura also you could pick up Linda's book because she talks a lot about cages in her book it's fabulous. So if you want to take if you want to wade in a little bit right like you could just as safely from a distance you could just read the book the Linda way. Yes yes if you want a conversation hit me up a one way conversation yeah it's a good one though I highly recommend it oh such a joyous conversation as always Laura yes indeed all right until next time