25 Years, Two Continents, One Agency: Heidi Scarlett King on Building a Career That Actually Lasts

From Mac OG to Agency Founder with Heidi Scarlett King

This week I sat down with Sydney-based makeup artist and King Co Creative founder Heidi Scarlett King — and yes.

Heidi has one of those careers that sounds like fiction. She started at Mac in Sydney when the brand had just launched, assisting Fashion Week shows a season. Then she packed up and moved to London with no plan, started again from scratch, ended up at the Mac Pro Store in Soho, ended up on ITV This Morning as a beauty expert, got on Pat McGrath's runway team in Paris, and came home in 2014 to build an agency with 45 artists on the books.

This one covers the full arc. The exciting bits, the lonely bits, and the hard-won truths that only come from doing this for a really long time.

We cover:

• Starting at Mac in the 2000s and what Australian Fashion Week looked like at its peak
• Assisting legend Dottie and why those early years were the making of her
• Starting over in London and what six years there taught her about resilience
• Getting onto Pat McGrath's team at Paris Fashion Week and what that world is really like
• Accidentally becoming a TV beauty expert on ITV This Morning
• Why she moved back to Sydney in 2014 and how hard it was to restart — again
• How the industry shifted post-Instagram and why events became where the money went
• Directing Australian Idol and The Voice — and how that gave birth to King Co Creative
• Managing 45 artists: what she values more than talent, and why integrity can't be taught
• The Cartier Opera House event: 63 hair and makeup artists across 10 Sydney hotels
• The best advice she has for artists just starting out

Plus Heidi shares her current kit favourites — the By Terry powder she's been using for 15 years, her new Tarte tubing mascara obsession, and why the Half Percent lip liner is her ride or die right now.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Hi and welcome to the Makeup Insider. I'm your host, Vanessa Barney, makeup artist, hairdresser, educator and all-around beauty junkie. If you've ever felt lost or lonely in your makeup career, this podcast is for you. I'm here to interview makeup artists and other industry professionals to give guidance and be the mentor I needed early in my career. With a new episode every Tuesday, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a trick. And if you like what you hear, please rate and leave a comment. I hope you enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 0:38

Hello, Heidi! Hey Vanessa! Welcome!

SPEAKER_02 0:42

Thanks for having me. Pleasure. I've got Heidi Scarlet King, makeup artist and agency founder owner. Yay! Thank you so much for joining me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

We made it. Oh my god, I was just thinking that on the drive here. I'm thinking, maybe just begin with the fact that it's taken us about eight years to get here. We've talked about it a few times. That's alright. She's got me. She's nailed it. Got you. It took a while.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

That's alright. I know, you know, COVID. COVID, a meeting in person. All of these things, Marvel. Yes. I think a meeting in person makes such a difference. Yeah. Maybe I have trust issues. I need to just work on some things. I just, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

I think it's different when you meet someone in person. I'm like, what do you want to know? Exactly. I don't want to know. What do you know? It's funny. And then you also sort of do that sort of self-sabotagey thing of I've got nothing interesting to say. A lot of people have said that too. It's like, what do you want to know about me?

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Oh no, I've got lots that I want to know.

SPEAKER_00 1:37

25-year career. Oh wow, yeah. It's been a while. That's great. Yeah. Cross a few continents. Yeah, six years in London. That was intense. And that was hard knocks. And yeah, I think that was probably the most challenging time. Okay. Probably the first part of building my career and learning. So the first sort of five years, definitely in Sydney, straight after makeup school. And then fast forward to the six years in London. Absolutely starting again.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Oh yeah, okay. So let's start at the beginning. So I reckon you started around the 2000 mark. Am I right in saying that? Because I think we're of a similar vintage. Fine wine.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

So you study, did you do a course, a year-long course? Yeah, so I'm from Perth and I there was nothing, you know, 99, 98, 99 looking at it. And I had to save up and come to the Big Smoke of Sydney because Sydney had the most reputable courses, the only courses in 2000, 2001. So I moved, I finished study in 2001 in Sydney at Three Arts, and then I literally, the probably even just before I finished college, I I started working for Mac. I was one of the first Mac OGs the 2000 early when it had just launched. Oh it was such an exciting time for Mac. Oh my gosh, yeah. It was like we had lines waiting for these women waiting for their lip glass and their spice lip pencil. Oh my gosh. And we would sell those two products, probably, I don't know, there was 20 a day of sex. Oh yeah. And twig lipstick. And yeah. I know. Satin taupe eyeshadow. Oh, satin taupe eyeshadow. I just remember these combos. I love satin toe. Yeah. Actually, you look like you've got a bit of satin tope eyeshadow. Yeah, could be, could be, who knows. You know, when it's on yourself, it's just like lucky deep. Ageless, classic looks. But yeah, that was the start. And then I was beautiful thing about Mac was it was heavily into fashion. Australian fashion was at its peak around the 2000s. It was such a good time. So Mac ended up doing probably about 65 shows for fashion weeks out of 80. That's how many shows showed back then in the early 2000s. And that was the most exciting time in Australian fashion. And we all loved it. We all got paid to do shows. We all really properly got paid. It was a big money week. You do two or three shows a day with Mac, either key or just assisting on the team. And yeah, it'll be it'll be fun fantastic money. Fun looks a very different time now. But fun looks awesome. Like Subi with the rats running down and like Zimmerman and oh my god, there was some incredible Leona Edmondstone with the dogs like walking around through the parks. This the sets and the props, and it was incredible. It was just iconic. And then the parties, of course. The parties. A lot of parties. Yeah. So that was a really exciting time. And then around that time, so working with Mac as a casual Mac artist and working on the shows and doing all the fun fashion things and learning so much from just working with everyday folk as well. Learning, like just because you're working on the counters at an early age, you were understanding how to deal with asymmetry of people's faces, yeah, and skins and skin tone. And like so, you had it was like really full-on. It was a learning training session every single day there. And then on top of that, I was just trying to assist. So my first real assisting role was with, and so again, that was a really tough time, but the most insanely incredible, inspiring time. I still to this day in I'm inspired by her, talented on every single level. And like me, even though she went into the fashion, she was high fashion, and then now she's similar. We both tend to do a bit more celebrity work now. Yeah. And she's she's on. I'm not comparing myself in any way to her, because I never will be, but she's in New York and she's working on Harry Styles and doing his video clips and his personal and doing Alicia Keys. And so she was my mentor for a year and a half. I assisted her. Really? And she took me away. My first gig with her was the cover of Harper's Bazaar. Okay. 4am Cool. Hi, how are you? My name's Heidi. Oh, hi, I'm Dottie. And I it was full on. You weren't really around that time, it was probably 2003. Yeah. You weren't really as an assistant, and this is not on her, you weren't meant to talk. Yeah. You couldn't talk. Yeah. And so you stood there, you cleaned brushes, you were preempting what this person needed, and you were doing it. Yeah. And you had to try and read a room very quickly.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Yeah. And there wasn't the information available now that there. You make mistakes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

And you learn quickly. Yeah. And I did make a lot of mistakes. So many. Yeah. And I would come home and cry. And it was nothing to do with that person. It was just me. I I think still to this day. And maybe it's partly, I think it's just me personally as a personal, it's a personal thing. With me is I'm very self-deprecating. And I'm like, how could I have done that better?

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

And learn from those mistakes. And I probably overthink a lot. I go back and I go, Oh my god, what did I do? Why did I do that? And what and I overanalyse, but I think as well that's a good thing. Yeah. Absolutely does my head in. It's I'm always on the road of self-improving. And I'm always trying to do a better job the next time.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

Do you think you've gotten better at that with age? Do you do it less or maybe do it more in a more constructive way?

SPEAKER_00 7:38

I think the lens is a bit more accurate now. Yeah. In terms of how I can read the scenario. Whereas, yeah, you're right, in your 20s, you just don't have the wisdom to be able to see you're too much in the forefront of it. You're the main character, it's all about you. But it's not actually the thing is we realise now that it's actually people don't really give a fuck about you, really. And just step out. Just it's not really about you. Yeah. Just don't overanalyse, don't be so self-critical. Definitely. Because most 90% of people aren't really thinking about you in any way. Like it's not like it. I think for me though, it's it's less on oh, about he said, she said, or what did I say wrong. It's not about that. It's more just about the actual work. Like how could I have done it? Yeah. Use that. Yeah. So it's more, yeah, how can I have how can I improve that for next time?

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yeah. I could I like you'd be like, oh, why didn't I think of using that product? That would have worked so much better if I approached it that way. Yeah. I've definitely be done the self, what you just mentioned. But I just even think there's way more education in general out there, yes, in how to deal with things that your what your brain tells you isn't always true. 100% yes, very true. There's so much more education around that. Yeah. But yeah, we did the hard yards.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah, there was no help.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

There was no help with when we were assisting, right? Well, I was an apprentice hairdresser and that was like when were you started? That's where I started. So yeah, apprentice hairdressing in the late 90s, mid to late 90s in Far North Queensland. Yeah. You were seen and not heard as well. 100%. I can only imagine how that was. I don't like I don't know if that worked to my advantage in life or not, because I think one thing as a makeup artist, you need to be seen and heard when it's your job. So I think sometimes you've got to have a presence. So maybe that but then you do need to know when to be quiet as well.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

But 100% it's really very difficult. Yeah, our role is impossible, actually. Yeah. You go into one mode or sector of our work and you need to be seen and heard, but then in another, let's say, for example, if you're working with celebrity, you are not really there. You have to be in the background. Yes, you have an opinion, yes, you have confidence in what you're doing and carrying out. However, you shouldn't have too many opinions. No one really wants to hear your opinions, and that's the dark truth.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

Especially if it's a different opinion to what everyone else is in the room is that it's terrible.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Don't have an opinion. No, I don't know. I sit on the fence. Yeah. But it's good to say, I see both ways. Yeah. Yeah. It's good to just be yeah, in the background on that one. It's just every single job, like the makeup aesthetic, every single job is so different to, you know, when we cross over whether I'm working on a production, doing a show, or if I'm doing an editorial and bleaching eyebrow, or um the next day is I'm working with a celebrity. Yeah. There's so many different hats. There's so many. And I'm grateful for it. Yeah. Because you can just be a shape, you have to be a shapeshifter. You do. You know, as we all have such broad in Australia. We can't be super niche, I feel, because there's only a small pool of work, really. Yes. And so we all have to just do our sleeves up and just can't get in and do lots of different types of work.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Unless you, yeah, like I feel like I what do I call myself? I can't remember, but I'm like I'm an all-rounder in the hair and makeup world. I'm not a hairdresser anymore. Yeah. I think. Did I see you? Were you on a TV set the other day? Were you working? Yes. Did you do something on TV? Yeah. Additional days.

SPEAKER_00 11:35

When we were on together, or when we I was on I was on, yes. Yeah, I felt like I was helping a mate out on the NCIS. And that was sick. Yeah. Do you know what I love not being a boss? It's so good. I'm like, yes! You tell me when to come, tell me when to go, I'd do my shift, and then I'd go. Yeah. And it was wild. The sets, and it's like nothing, no expense was spared. It's like freaking police takeovers and driving and this and that. And the big just watching on the monitor, and it's high-end. Yes. And it's wild to watch. And it's great to see, it's giving so many people jobs in the industry. Exactly. TV shows like that is just incredible. Yeah. Like it's really amazing. I just, yeah, I love having rant, like a day like that, and then I'm working with someone else on the other. I just great. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

You've got that option to do this. Because I feel when it comes to working on set like TV like that, you have to have been on set before. You've got to know to get the ropes, right?

SPEAKER_00 12:34

It's almost yes, exactly. To be able to allow to be privy to be an option to work on those shows. You do have to have that experience for sure. Yeah. My background is I started in fashion and I was in fashion for a very long time. So obviously after the Dottie thing. Then I got signed to an agency here. Oh. Yeah, so that was probably 2006. And I just wanted to do, I don't know, I it was a fun time, like I said, in fashion. So I just wanted to do the Rush magazines and I wanted to do Daised and this and that. And I did, and we're a bit of advertising, but it was all fashion and it was exciting. But then personally, I was still single. When I reached a 28, it was a funny time living in the E's, just wanting more out of life. Feeling like you just keep doing the same stuff. I'm like, fuck this. Why am I here? I've got a British passport. I'm going. Yeah, my dad's British. So, like, what am I doing? Yeah. I'm like wasting my time. I need new horizons. Yeah. I need to challenge myself. So I just literally had never been to London, packed my bags, off I went and stayed there for six years and started again.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

And that was wild. And yeah, there were the first eight months were really tough because you were like, I went back to the Mac counter.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

I went back to the counter and full time.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

So I had never even done that. So I thought, you know what? I went to the Pro Store. I worked at the Pro Store in Soho. Yeah. And look, I lasted probably eight months. And then I did you meet people though there?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

The Pro Store is there's actually only one in London. So for for say Val Garland and Alex Box and all and Pat's team. Pat never came in personally, but her teams. Okay. They all had to come to the Mac Pro Store in Soho on Carnaby, which is where I was. Yeah. And it was the cream of the crop there. But you I had, do you know who was my two I see? Nicola Hayes from Pixie Woo. You know, didn't I? Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with Nice.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

She's my best friend. Really? Yes!

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Nick and Sam! Nick and Sam. Oh my god. So Nick and Sam worked in the Pro Store with me.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

People were the only people who had Fangirl. They're fucking amazing. I just love them. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

She was a tough boss, babe. She was tough. So Nick? Yeah, Nick was tough. But she was so she was too I see, but no, she was awesome. Oh my gosh, couple of access. I don't just go on. I know she says I'm telling her. Should we ring her? What time is it? She's in Norwich. Oh my god, I love the fan. Let's call her. We should probably call her. No, we'll do that later. But she's a legend. We became good friends, but there were some really amazing artists there, and I learned so much. And the training that they did in Mac Pro in London was next level. But yeah, everyone came into that store. So it was just like in the most insane place to meet makeup artists. Meeting Pat's team, Val, I met Alex Box so many times. Like they'd all come in.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Yeah, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Yeah, it would just be like this hub. It was such a vibe. But the full-time, the full-time retail makeup artist aspect got to me. So it only really took eight months, it's pretty fast moving over there, to really gain some really good clients. I ended up working with Top Shop and Miss the head of PR came in and wanted a makeup, quick makeup. She said, Do you work freelance by any chance? And I went, Of course. Well, yes, I do now. I'm gonna cut my days. Yeah. And so I started working with them, like e-com, lookbooks, so that was just like that. She just said, Come into the offices next week, show me your book. And this was back in the day when you brought your big leather-bound like book, your folio. And I did that, and she's looking, and she's like, I was so nervous. She says, Yeah, I see your potential. I think you're a great artist. And I'm like, Great. And so that was it.

unknown 16:17

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

And next minute I was doing, it was, oh, I tell you what, it was eight minutes from eight, eight months from then, we were working on the Kate Moss Miss Selfridge launch, or Top Shop. Sorry, Kate Moss Top Shop collaboration. And they went, Do you want to come to the party? I went, Yes. So literally, I was at the party with Kate Moss, Jamie Hinz, whatever her name is, and like all these random rock stars and celebs, and I'm like, oh my god, is this my life? This is so cool. Oh, that would have been. There's London in it. Everyone's got a it's just normal, isn't it? Oh, that'd be amazing. Damon from Blur walks down the street. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Oh my god, hi.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

So eight months, and then did you just did you ease out of counter work? I did, and then what also probably helped just for the bread and butter was I ended up, I got finally, I had to wait a real long time, but I finally got a test at the B Sky B production. Okay. So that's literally they have 50 hair and makeup artists freelancers on their books. It's huge. Yeah. It's foxtell, yeah. But imagine on the biggest scale. So news, music channels, entertainment shows, sport. So they had probably every single day probably about 10 different TV shows filming. So to get a test, it took so long, and I yeah, I got in. So when you say test your kind of auditioning or your skills, to do a hair makeup test on a presenter.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

And I was successful. Yeah, I was really nervous because I was like, this is my meal ticket out of Mac Pro. Yeah. I have to do a really good job because this will make sure even if I just have a few days, a week interview. Totally. And I did and I got it and I loved it actually.

SPEAKER_03 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Well, you're working with so many different artists as well, maybe. Just meet people, right? And then it was like working on these the music channels. Yeah. And then I ended up working on the BBC music channels and getting taken away to the festivals, like doing their live crosses. And I would stay there. I would be at the freaking Latitude Festival. Yeah. I can't remember the other one was the other big one that we did. There's so there's freaking so many. And yeah, but it was cool. It was a really cool time.

SPEAKER_02 18:31

Oh, that sounds so fun. Yeah. How amazing. That was good. Have you done some stuff for your front of your in the on the camera though?

SPEAKER_00 18:38

Yes, so that was a weird one. So that was accidental. Okay. That was accidental.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

I love that just happened. Look weird.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

So this is super funny. So again, down the TV road, working at Met, the most insanely cool, crazy Scottish hairstylist. Okay. Charlie McCurren, and he's amazing. He's now traveling, doing I do wish I'd stayed there because what he's doing now, and all my friends over there, it's not fair. I'm like, no, I left too soon. But anyway, so you know, he travels on private jets now doing all the celebs, but and grooming. So he specializes in grooming now. Oh. But back then he was looking after people like what's her name, Kelly Rowland and lots of other TV people. And he's like, he loved my makeup. And he's like, we make a great team. Let's try and let's go. Let's do this. And so we were working quite a bit together, and then he goes to me one day, he goes, Oh babe, there's a really big TV show called ITV This Morning. Yep. It's three to five million viewers every morning. It's like he chat on i Mornings or something like that and he's like, Guess what? Guess what? I'm doing this test on ITV this morning. They're looking for new beauty experts, and I think I'm gonna go for it. Why don't you go for it? Why don't you do it with me? And I'm like, really? Should I? And he's like, No, you've got to. And I went, okay. So I hired a model from Storm Models to be my model. And I did three celebrity trends, a red carpet looks, this is what I'm doing. And I was I made the short list, but he didn't. Oh no, wild. I'm like, oh no, this is so awkward. And he's like, no, go for it. This is awesome. And then what happened was they created a show, a beauty expert, this is like 2012, a beauty expert makeup artist show called the Beauty Bells. Yeah. And I was the redhead, then there was a blonde, and then there was a brunette. And we all just did set we took turns each week to do how-tos. Now this is just around when the YouTube how-to tutorials exploded. Yeah. So it was still pretty, it was pretty, it was incredible for a TV show, a breakfast TV show to start doing this. It was quite groundbreaking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Because it hadn't been done before.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

No. Yeah. No. And it was amazing. So then what then happened, and it started getting legs when they started getting affiliations with, say, boots or later. And so they would get these guys in, and then we would do sponsored. Yeah. Yeah. Little pieces to camera and get the looks and and then we'd have to go on the TV show and talk a do a QA as well when they would do it as well. So it was, yeah, that was wild. I was like, oh, I can't believe this is happening. Yeah. And that opened a lot of doors. And I thought maybe I should just do better. And I went and took myself to a presenting. I was gonna ask you. I did a presenter at London, London, what is it called? London Media Academy. Yeah. So I did a little diploma in presenting, so you just learn about autoc and how to speak to the camera, how to write scripts.

SPEAKER_02 21:43

Oh, that's so valuable. It was super valuable. Do you still is it something that you use now? 100% a lot. Is it media training?

SPEAKER_00 21:52

It is media training. Yeah, it's similar to it's it didn't go into the full detail of offcoms and you know, yeah. But yeah. It wasn't in the political sense of media training. Probably do need a bit of that. Actually, yeah. Sign me up. No. It just it taught you the technical stuff. Yeah. Which is you got it, you need a lot of practice with it, and I certainly do, but I think that'd be really interesting. Especially now because everything's so digital. So digital. So yeah. Learning how to speak and pronounce words. Yes. Like that. Like British. Pronouncing words. Pronunciations.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. When did you learn hair?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Oh, what does that happen? No, I learned hair at makeup school. Yeah. Yeah. So right at the start. Yeah. Okay. Did I love it? Not really. I found it fascinating. The period hair. Oh, that's fascinating. Love that. I actually enjoyed the period hair, but then the normal blow dries and so boring. So not creative like makeup. Yeah. But I had to do it. Yeah. And thank God I had. But I think with hair, for me personally, I think a lot of other makeup artists say this is it's very much like you have to constantly do it to continue doing it. With a makeup artist, if it's probably the same with a hairstylist that does a bit of makeup.

SPEAKER_02 23:15

Yeah, maybe. But your hairs, it's just a different fac it moves, right? Yeah. Faces do move, but they don't blow into weed.

SPEAKER_00 23:23

Oh my god. Location, hair? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:27

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so in London, you've done your TV stuff. Yeah. And how you said that opened some doors for you?

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Totally. I think it just gave me a bit of a platform. So suddenly I had beauty PR companies reaching out, going, here's all the stuff.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

And this is before PR was a bit like PR's leak. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that yeah, I wouldn't have even known what Beauty PR was in 2012.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Exactly. So it was, oh wow, this is awesome. And it and because London is London and it works on such a different timeline, it's like a very rapid mouse wheel. I would email a PR company saying, hey, I'm doing a piece to camera for I TV this morning. I need a buy, I need this whole by Terry ring. Within an hour, it would be at my door at home. Like it it was that. It was having that kind of like feeling of oh my god, people listening and people actually giving me stuff that I never thought I'd normally have to buy all this and it costs thousands of bucks. But yeah, so I think just that ITV this morning gig gave me that. And then I started writing as well. I was with Two magazine, which was like a makeup artist magazine that the Pixie Woo girls started. And so they were like, We love you. Can you write for us? These weekly write-ups and how-tos and trends and yeah, some product launches and stuff with that, which was cool too. Kept me busy. Yeah. And then I I started getting to do some like working with some great celebrities over there in London, like Jerry Hall. I ended up working on Pat McGrath's tea. Did you? Because I continued doing, even though I was doing other stuff and a bit of TV on the side, I was still doing the fashion. I still did February and September season in London. And I worked with an amazing artist called, he's from Perth as well, Thomas DeCliver. I don't know. So he's now the head of Gucci makeup global. Like phenom. He's an incredible artist. Okay. Yeah, he's such a pioneer. He's incredible. I'm like, oh my god, I'm so proud of you! Yeah, wow, that's it. He's amazing. I was working on his shows, and then because of the Dottie thing, the minute I did move to London, I spoke to Michael at Streeters, and they kept me in mind. And I did work with some of their artists, and then Pat's name was Would you like to work with Pat? And I'm of course, let me think about that. Yeah. So I got to work with Pat at in Paris Fashion Week for the Lonven show, and that was amazing. I saw some friends backstage as well. Miranda Kerr was there, and some other makeup artists that great makeup artists as well that had the expats and stuff. And yeah, it was a great time. It was scary. The scary, the makeup artists on the team was scary. Very cutthroat. Yeah. And I was like, I smelt it, I felt it, I experienced it, and then I was like, cool, I'm done. Okay. So for me, I was not, I didn't really want to. I I didn't look, I don't live in New York. I was a London girl. And she's not often over there. So maybe Europe and then. But yeah, it was that was intense, that feeling of there's a real pecking order. Yes. She has six, five or six assistants. There's a top one, he was divine and gorgeous, and he would show you the makeup test. She only blew in actually. She came halfway through Pat on the show. She's meeting you, love's hi, she's beautiful, lovely. And then off to the door. She had to just jump. Yeah. And that's the way it goes, isn't it? Yeah. I don't know, but I'm assuming your people and your people deliver it for you. I've been with her for years, right? Exactly. Yeah. So that was fascinating. So you tried that? Yeah, amazing. Right. Amazing experience. But and I was happy just to do work on the shows with my friends and every season, and that was great. It was the experience that we're just learning, aren't we? And I think I think that's why, even though, look, when I got home, I so I moved back to Sydney. Yeah. Um, got married, did that thing, and oh god, do we want to buy a property and stay here or and settle in? Is home calling. And I probably could have stayed another few more years in London easily, but my husband being British and I'd brought him home and he's like, oh my god, what do you mean? This is the heaven. Why are we even in this shithole? Like come on. I'm like, really? I like the shithole. Yeah, where did you live in London? Central. Okay. Yeah, pretty central. Like zone two. We're in zone two, three. So we're in Putney, space, before that Wandsworth. But before that, I was like hardcore central. I was in Angel, High Brisington on my own when I was being swinging single. Yeah. And King's Cross. Okay. So I moved around a bit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

You've got to real experience. I was mainly in Tooting. I lived in Tuding when I was. Tuning back. Tuting back. Tuting back. Yeah. That's zone three. North. Zone three, south. South, is it? No, you're right. Towards Brixton, right? Yeah. And then I used to walk through Wandsworth Common. Oh my god, you work every day. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

What year was that?

SPEAKER_02 28:28

I was before you were there. I was there 24, 20 oh four, five, six, and into seven. Oh, I was a bit longer than I thought.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

Yeah. So three years?

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Yeah, just a bit over three years. How did you stay there? I was sponsored by my by the salon. Dead. Yeah. That's wild. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

Did you want to stay longer?

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, I I would the reason I came home was actually for an Australian boy who I'm not with. But no. I actually think if that didn't happen, I probably would have I could possibly still be there now. Totally. I don't know though. But yeah, I have been back only once. I think London I preferred living in London than visiting London. Same. I just think London is different. I had so much fun. It's oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Don't you think the anonymity that you had and experienced, no one you could just be whoever you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 29:20

That in itself is so liberating. It would have changed so much since I was there. But yeah, I had a ball in London. I like to party in London.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Babe, you worked hard, you play hard. I'm gonna tell you that's where that started.

SPEAKER_02 29:33

I don't know if people still party like we did in the early 2000s, Mindy. Probably.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

I reckon they do. I mean, I do think though. Now the 20s of today, they're a bit they're a little bit beige. They're just way more classy. They were more classy and way more. Totally self-aware. So boring. Yeah, it was definitely not self-aware.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

I think about to baby Vanessa, and I'm like, oh my god, no, I don't really relate to her anymore.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I want to meet her. It was fun. I want to meet her. Oh my gosh. Baby Vanessa was she would have been fun.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

She was real fun. This Vanessa could never keep up with that Vanessa now.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

No.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Still got a bit of life in your dad. Maybe fun Vanessa, I call her. Anyway, you came back. When did you come back? About 2016, 17. Oh no, it was 2014. 14?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Yeah. Okay. So we did America. We'd done a lot of travelling. Obviously, you know what it's like. Yeah. Let's go to let's go to bloody Spain. Let's go to I see all these Aussies every year, code June, July, August. Oh, I can't wait for my Euro trip. Doll, we did that. I went to Paris 30 times. I'm over that. You know what I mean? Like it's just like it got old. Yeah. Going and going to Europe. Got old. I know that sounds wild, but it was like, okay, we're done. So then we did America and then came home in 2014. It was pretty hectic having to start again. People like Heidi Who, who are you? It is. I'm like, yeah, I know, right? Been away a long time, and since then, Instagram came. Yeah, okay. So it was such a different, there were different types of makeup artists. No longer were we getting booked on your levels of skill set and experience. We were now getting booked. What's your page like? What's your handle? Like that's your follower account. Yeah. Yeah. And that was starting. That was starting. So not only was I absolutely no one, Billy nobody, had having to for the third time start again. It's a lot. It is a lot, and it's really draining. But it's yeah, so it did take a while. It took a while. I think it I felt like re-establishing myself back in Sydney took longer than establishing myself in London. London. Wildly. How is that? You think though, are people more open, do you think, in London? I think nobody is from London. So everyone's transient, everyone's going hard. Yeah. You go hard. Yeah, okay. And you're here for a good time, not a long time. Yeah. So it's just, and it's also just like I said, it's that mouse wheel. Everything moves rapidly over there. Whereas here is like ready. Oh, it's five o'clock. I'm sorry. This will have to wait till Monday. It's five o'clock on a Friday. Sorry. I'll hit you up on like it's everyone's living for weekends here. And like and it's kind of nice, don't get me wrong. I'm really I'm here for this because I'm mid-40s and like I'm loving this part of my life. Yeah. But I do miss that frenetic, yeah, the mouse wheel a little bit of London, feeling alive and feeling like you there's no ceiling, whereas there's such a hectic, heavy ceiling here. So it's good or bad. Yes, I love the lifestyle here, but there's a pool of work. Yeah. And there's also and I have to say, coming back, and this is why I steered out of high fashion in home. First of all, there's probably about three to five makeup artists or hair people that are truly successful and getting full-time work here in that field, but it's not that, it's more the fact that I came back and I swear to fucking god, the look and the aesthetic of Australian fashion has not shifted, moved, changed. It's still the no makeup, makeup, it's still that fucking undone hair. And I'm like, oh my god. I need more, I just need more out of my life, and I also need to be challenged. I don't want to speak to a 14-year-old every single day. Love ya, and I'm not your mum. So it's kind of that. So fashion also just the energy and the toxicity of the humans in that also just really grinds. So I don't know, I just felt like I need new challenges. Yeah. And I think this through now the last sort of five years, eventing has happened, lots of events. Oh my gosh, yeah. It's all about money. Money is in events now. It is. So instead of doing your big like back in the day when I used to get paid for five days on a Cosmo Avertorial $2.50 an hour, and that was awesome and wild. No more. No, no one's paying those prints. No magazines. So it's now, oh my god, let's get you on Tiffany and Co. or a Cartier event where you create a team. Yes. And you create a team, and it's awesome live. Because AI can do that. No, it can't.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

It cannot do that. AI can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Yes, AI's coming. It's here. Yeah. So yeah, it's great. It's that's definitely where it's at. So I think I've had to shape shift. And I think as makeup artists for 25, 30, 35 years, you have to shape shift according to who's paying, who's doing, where is it, what's gonna drive you, what's challenging you. Not only where is the money, but it's more about what's what is going to fulfill you, what's and working with talent, celebrity, working on teams, which is what I've managed to do as a full-time gig, is yeah, what I love doing. Is that how your agency came about? 100%. Everyone's like, why did you start an agency? And I'm like, it's really the only why is I was doing it already. Yeah, okay. I was already doing it when I got back from London. I think it was like the the following year, I got asked to do, I was doing some work here and there in Endermole Shine. I think I did some days here and there. Someone in there took a liking to me and they said, by the way, I've just put your name forward for as a new hair and makeup director for The Voice. Yeah and that was back what's that 10 years, 12, 11 years ago? That was when it was big, that show. And yeah, so I got it, and that's when I started creating teams and big teams. So not only for that TV show, I was creating looks every single week for the show, but also managing people and managing teams and also sponsors, brands, having like a Redkin team on top of that. So I had my core team, then I would have to manage a Redkin team or a Napoleon team or a Mac team within that realm for that show.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

So they then came in because of the sponsors. Correct. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

So it was directing three at once. That's a lot. It was a lot, it was a very hectic selected the team and you don't know people's capabilities.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Exactly. That's hard. It was really hard. Especially for the looks. Yeah. I've worked on the voice, not with you, but for it's there's lights.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Yeah, it's wait, there's lights. It's a lot. Lights and chat, they change and they're different. I swear to god, they make everything look different. That lighting. Yeah, that's so true. So it's just yeah, it's a whole other thing. It's not a undone way or a no from no it ain't. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's a new challenge in itself. And also a fashion girl going into this world is like then yeah. And also, these people aren't models. No. Right? So it's different. Totally. It's back to the MAC counters having to deal with asymmetry. Yeah. It is literally, if anyone asks me, this is the most challenging work that you could do as a makeup artist. Create a create a pop star from an average girl. Yeah. And that is what you have to do on that show. And it's also a journey. So it's not straight away. No. Because there has to be a transition as well. Because it's a story. That's right. It's a story. Yeah. It's it is exciting and it's it is real, it's a huge challenge. Yeah. But I think for me, it's the team aspect. So being able to do that. And then so that's where the whole cultivation of my agency started because I was thrown after the show would finish, say the production would finish, and then all this other stuff would start getting thrown my way. Oh, can you just create a team for this event? Or can you do this team? New creator, hey, I need a group of five maker barters for this. Or and so it just star it was just starting on its own. And I was just like, this is actually quite demanding, and it takes a lot of my time. I'm off my tools, and I'm sitting here at six, eight, nine, ten o'clock at night having to create, hey, can you do this? Oh, no, it's messaging. It's the comms. Yeah. And it's a whole part-time job. Absolutely. So that's where that all started. And the following up. Yeah. Right? So that's how it started. And I was just like, it started slowly and that long ago. And then I legitimately created King Co-Creative. When was it? Three years ago now. Three and a half years. Yeah. I feel like. Like legitimately. But I would like I said, I've been doing it way before. So I know it feels like yesterday for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Now I know people are going to be thinking, how does one get on a King Creative team?

SPEAKER_00 39:17

Oh, I have to, and I have to say it's a difficult one because I have to work, I have to work with them. And listen, even when I've I have to say this honestly, I even when I have worked with people, I still get surprised by certain people. There is there's things that you have to deal with managing people that humans are humans. Yes, we're predictable that there's levels of like unpredictability when you have to manage teams, but I do try to work one-on-one before because I I want to get a feel and a sense of what kind of work this person would do. But there's 45 currently subcontracting with me in Sydney. Oh wow, that's a lot. So it's quite a lot. But I also I'm open to I once once the work starts getting busier again. I'm really going to do a busy ride. I'm gonna do a haul. Yeah. I'm gonna try and get some new blood in there because I feel like it needs a little shake up. And there's so many amazing artists. I get emailed, probably I probably get about five to ten emails a week going, hey, this looks good. Like I and I, it's really difficult. I'm pretty slack and I probably do need a PA and a bookkeeper and all the extra people. I've got my husband who comes in and he does the IT. When's I gonna take over? I know, right? I know, exactly. We do need some more help, but yeah, I that's why my husband comes in. But yeah, no, I think I think it'll be nice to have some fresh energy as well because yeah, with new work comes yeah, new energy.

SPEAKER_02 40:52

Can I ask you, what do you think is what do you value more? Talent or personality?

SPEAKER_00 41:00

I think you can learn how to do looks. Yeah, but what you cannot learn is integrity and motivations, integrity, and being a good person is not something that I can teach you. That's got to come already, and that for me is paramount. And it's something I have learned over the last few years. I think the thing I say all the time, and I truly believe this, only time teaches you about people. Yeah, true. And it's one thing, if I look around, I have some of the most incredible hair and makeup people on my team. I have. I feel so lucky, and I've worked with them for since I've been back, right from the start. Yeah, so 10-15 years on, and they're still in my core team, yeah, and they're still killing it, and they're still inspiring me, and still just bringing it every single time I work with them, and that it that inspires me. You probably know you can really rely on them too, right? Yeah, yeah, and so that's what I mean. Over time teaches you about people, and those people are solid.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

I had my own salon when I was very young, and I was like 21, 22, and from having that salon, I realised that I am not a good people manager.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Yeah, I actually think it's the hardest job.

SPEAKER_02 42:23

It is so hard.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

I can tell you now, I there's I've made so many mistakes. I have made it's I have I thought I was a good judge of character as well. But guess again, there are some people that still to this day surprise where you give them all the trust in the world and give them huge jobs and then they never cease to disappoint.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

And you just oh Heidi, you got it wrong there. Right, you got it wrong. You just think that you can trust, yeah, and unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

I think too, because of I think I go over and above.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:57

And I feel like I thought everyone was like me. Yes, and they're not. No. And I think that was, and that's actually a really valuable lesson tool. That sounds really stupid. Not everyone's like you, Vanessa. Yeah, yeah. No, because people say to me, why don't you do get teams of people? I'm like, oh, I can't, I'm not, I'm not a people, I don't manage people.

SPEAKER_00 43:20

It's like I said, the literally the toughest job that I've had so far.

SPEAKER_03 43:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yeah. And I yeah, I could I do it full-time, no. I am, I would say I'd do a part-time capacity on King Co, and that's as much as I want. And look, maybe down the road, I will make it a big thing and start grabbing teams and doing a whole thing. But right now, I still need because my main money earnest is still my own personal work. Okay, yeah. So I have doing both is wonderful, but I yeah, I still have to continue doing my own work, and I don't wanna I don't wanna step out of the tools, I don't want to step out of The game yet. I'm loving it. I still feel inspired. I still come to every single job with a preempted idea and having that try creating looks and create characters, and that's the whole thing. I still love doing that. Yeah. So I think until that feels done, yeah, then I'll move into full time and more and build Kingko bigger. And I will do it, but just not right now. I don't feel the need to right now, but I will get there.

SPEAKER_02 44:29

The shifter, I suppose maybe more events will happen. Totally. I think it'll just it'll tell you, right? Yeah. What's happening in the industry will tell you. Definitely. Yes. So what do your I suppose your weeks really vary as to what's going on actually? Hugely, hugely.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Yeah, I think more probably than most. I do have lots of different things going on. So say for example, this week coming. What have I got? I've got two days in a Mel on a Melbourne gig that I've already got. Yeah. So um Melbourne. I'm not gonna go to Melbourne. I've got King Co over there. Yeah. So I've got a lovely person over there doing that. Two days. I was gonna go, but then I'm like, oh no, I've got and then I got booked here. So I'm like just gotta cherry pick and work it out. But yes, so two days over there, and then I've got two days on filming the campaign for a new TV production. Oh, okay. So they're two big 10 10 hour days. Yeah. Big days. Then what else have I got? Oh my god, I've got something else on. I've got to shoot on Friday, but I can't see this is it. Yeah. This is what I mean. I need to open up the diary on a Sunday tonight. This is what I do. Yeah. Sunday, working out my routine, where do I fit in my workouts? Where do I if I can and schedule, mum life, first of all, first and foremost, and then working out my timeline for work. And yeah, like you, every single day and week is different. So I'm like, I also need to check that out. But I am working, yeah. I've got three days this week that I'm physically working, and then two days with King Co. So that's yeah, it's busy enough at the moment. June July though is usually textbook quiet. Okay. June July for most makeup artists in Sydney, that's when everyone complains. And I'm like, hey, everyone's like, hey, hey, you need you need me? Let me know. Remember me. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because it is, yeah, everyone's away. Yeah. So the private clients I think start to dry up a little bit for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

Oh yeah. Do you do many private ones? I just do regulars.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

I have a couple. Yeah. But to be honest, I used to do a lot more. I think it it peek it sort of peaks and flows like for me. Yeah. But they get annoyed. They kind of probably jog on. They'll come but they all come back. Yeah, I see what you mean. I have long standing ones that come back, but they get annoyed when I'm busy. Yeah. And it's not hate to say it, but they're the lowest, it's the lowest rung on the ladder. Doing that job. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

And I think some people get that.

SPEAKER_00 47:11

Yeah, some don't though. No.

SPEAKER_02 47:14

And I get it. I get it too. Because that's they're the most important person to them, which is You've got to be right. Gotta be. I don't mean that in a bad way, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

No, it's so true. Come on. Like what we said before. No one's thinking about you. They're thinking about them. Get it right. Get it straight.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Yeah. Have you ever gone down the wedding? Oh no. No.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

No, I no, I did. Oh, you didn't know no more. I can't. It's that comms. Oh my god. And it's just the level of okay, they're the centre of the universe, and everything stops when it's their wedding day. So intense. I can't tackle all my other work for the headspace of that one bride. I can't. I just cannot. Yeah. If it's from someone like a long-standing client and a referral, maybe, but I don't want to do wet. Nah. Yeah. Absolutely. And when they come in, there's some big ones that come in. I'm like, who wants that? Yeah. What do you want? You want to go to Hannah Valley? You want it? Wanna go to Woolum will? What it red leaf? Woolum Baylor. Oh yeah, red leaf. You know that one? I love that one. But yeah. But anyway, no, it's just on my jam. Yeah, for sure. And guess what? It is saturated with wedding makeup artists in Sydney. And so I'm happy just to step out. I've got enough work. I'm happy to bow out of that one.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:41

Take us through the process of when you are on the on idle. How does like how what to do?

unknown 48:51

What happens?

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Tell us coming up with those looks.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

Yeah, so it's it's fast. It's a fast moving TV show. I call them shiny floor shows. The voices and the idol. Shiny floor, entertaining, quick turnarounds. So every single week I am faced with new looks. And then it's obviously because it's a show and it's it's a contestant-based show where there's one winner, people then get removed each week. Pretty nasty. But idol as a show is it's pretty slow and it is very much it's about the singers. It's always about it's heavy on the singer and their story and their talent. Is it live? It's not live. Okay. No, it's pre-recorded. It is pre-recorded, okay. What is live is the results night. Yeah, and when I say live, it's definitely a 10-second delay. Yeah. Come on. Yeah. Gotta be have a little bit of wriggler there. But yeah, it's so we get them. I've got probably a team of what have we normally got? It depends on what part of the show, but four to six of hair and four to six of makeup. I like to separate the team. So separate hair, separate. Some people do it differently. I always run it like that, even with a voice, very separate. And you'll get I feel not only will it be a quicker run through, you will also just get a better outcome when you have special people on special areas. Yeah. And that's all good. And then yeah, I just come up with every single week. I come up with the looks, I Google Doc them, they have to be approved. There's like hundreds of WhatsApp chats that are firing through this period of seven weeks. Literally. So there's a wardrobe approval after the wardrobe approval, which is usually probably I get about 24 to maybe 48 hours if I'm lucky to turn that look around. Once that approval is done, and I sit check and I double check it with the head of wardrobe, and then speak to usually on the phone, probably she's just finished a very long day. The artistic director, she's like, Okay, I kind of think this and I kinda think that. And I'm like, what about this? And so we have a little chit-chat, and then I go and do the looks, they're approved, and then I then make sure that is created, and it's like my whole aesthetic is to make sure, even if you do something fun and quirky and cool look, always make it beautiful, yeah, for sure. Always lead with that, even if it's a little bit of a way out graphic eyeliner or and a blush moment with that, but still take one element away away and just still beautify it. Yeah, always about beautifying the face. It can be creative, yeah, but it's still that's my lead. Yeah, and so that's what I try and do for everyone on those shows. Yeah, try and find their beauty and bring it out. Are you on the tools? I'm on the tools on so what happens for me is time. Yeah, mostly not. So I'm not on the tools until probably the last couple of weeks. Okay, yeah. And I get really bored and I'm like, I'm going back on. I can't do this. Because it's fun looks. Totally. It's makeup. 100%. And I'm like, I want to do this one, guys. Is that okay? Yeah, well, you're the boss, so go on. All right, and then I'll be like, I'm like, is this okay? And it's like, yeah, it's you're you're the boss, whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

We're still makeup artists, we still need our yeah, yeah, because when you're funny, so close on a face. I do this all the time, even just when I'm on my clients. I'm just you're just on the face, looking at their face. Yes, and then I always when I give them the mirror, I always have to come around and look at what they're seeing in the mirror, and I can see it better. So true. Wow, that's really good. That is such a good point.

SPEAKER_00 52:37

Yeah, because one of them the mirror changes the entire look. The mirror is actually more of an essence and reflection of what the camera will pick up. Yes, so that's why we are working with production, the the mirrors in front with the lit lit up mirrors, and I always request natural lighting as well, front-facing natural light, which is great. So we do have that with idle, but yeah, it's so weird that isn't it? You have to check or check again, check in the mirror.

SPEAKER_02 53:06

I have to check in the mirror to see it because the actual work. It I just can't see it otherwise. No, and we're always doing it.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

We're always looking at critical being, oh, so critical. Do you know what I mean? Or we don't see certain things, yeah, and then they're like, hey, can we animate? Yeah. You're like, I didn't even notice that, and I'm so close. I always say that. I'm always collaboration. Yeah, this is your face, that's great. For sure. Sometimes you just go, shh just, do it, yeah, do it, yeah. Let me do my thing. Okay. Yeah. But no, a lot of the time you just, yeah, that's yeah, let's try that.

SPEAKER_02 53:45

Yeah. Is most of the work, TV work that you do performance-based kind of shows, like yeah, yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Yes. Yeah, I apart from directing Idol and just recently just did the voice, I don't really do that many productions through the year. I'm back to sort of events and some campaigns and all those sort of in-between things, just working on some talent on their things. But uh yeah, I don't know. I think I do this week is I do two days on the campaign. Yeah, okay. Yeah, for a strategic. Yeah, exactly. Yes. I don't know. I don't really feel like I do that much. I'd not say, for example, there are people that we know and love that only do production. I'm definitely not that human. I would say the lion's share of my work is not that. It's just that they're both under the same tone. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 54:40

Why? Exactly. That'd be crazy. That was crazy. Yeah. Yes. I think managing my teams for that would have been. Went crazy. Wildly, yes. Wild. What's your favourite type of work?

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Ooh. I feel like I don't know, I guess in a way, the work that we love, the thing that the essence of why we are makeup artists is the transformation. Okay, yeah. That's why we do it, right? Yeah. Because it's that that hit. We get that serotonin hit of oh my god, look at you! It's and it's so rewarding. That feeling of making someone feel amazing, feeling is really addictive. So that comes in loads of forms. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

I just had a from you worked with the Salt Lake City girls.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Oh yes. Whitney?

SPEAKER_00 55:30

Whitney Rose and Heather Gay.

SPEAKER_02 55:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 55:33

Hilarious. Yes. I had a whole week with them. You had a whole week with them. Yeah, because oh, something else is coming in a few weeks. Oh, really? Directing. Oh great. AU Fanfest.

SPEAKER_01 55:45

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 55:46

There's eight of them. Oh US Talent. Can that go on? Can I go? I think so. US talent. Yeah, it's the housewives coming. There's a whole heap of them. Oh my gosh. Like Cynthia. I may not, we probably won't say names actually. Yeah. But I'll just say I can do this bit again. That's okay. Something new's coming, yeah. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Can you just cover it out? Yeah. But have fun. Alright. Yeah, because you with you did Liz did that with you, right? Yeah. How fun. So with that, do you just follow them around? Are you with them all day? You mate them up and then you go.

SPEAKER_00 56:19

So I just got Liz in for the morning to do the hair. So I got her to come in to do the hair because there's two of them. They need to be ready at the same time. Like it's not a gown. I mean what is it? Undone. Ready? Swamp hair. Love swamp hair. That's my favourite kind of hair. But no look, we can all do that kind of look as well, but there was two of them and it was tight. Yeah. But of course, budgets being budgets, they also just don't need both of you at the same time. There were days where we I had lids on for longer, but no, it was just doing goes, and then I stayed all day with the and sat in and did them the press days. And they were fabulous. They were so much fun. Yeah, they would have been heaps of fun. They were literally, where are the gay bars? Where are the gay bars? Let's go. Can we go to the take us to the gay bars? They were like so much fun. They just wanted to go out. They really held their own. So they were out every night, probably. So they would have dinners. And then backing it up really early. We had early starts and they were amazing. They were utter pros. They have they know what to do.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

They know what to do. Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:23

Yeah, they were great.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Because I did watch Salt Lake for a while. The Housewives. Yeah. I never watched them. And they were fun. They were wild, actually. Salt Lake City. Yeah. They were wild, those girls.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Oh my god! Yeah. Yeah, they were fun. They were fun. Yeah. But yeah, the ones coming in August, it's already been announced, actually. Yeah. So I'm creating a whole team for that. For AU Fan Fest. And that's gonna be five days. Five days. No, all different shows. Oh. So there's Housewives of New York talent, there's Housewives of Atlanta, there's Housewives of they're all different and different shows. What's the one below deck? There's someone, and there's all these different TV shows and different talent. There's eight or nine, and I've got five days for them. Yeah, that'll be fun. That will be fun. That'll be wild. It'll be wild. Yes. We should talk after that. Yeah, we should. With a drink in my hand. Yeah, we should. No, it'll be great. I'm just here for the experiences. It's fun to be a shapeshifter and have every day different, and I feel very lucky to be able to have such variety of work. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Do you have do you take on assistance? I do for days. Yeah. Not regular because the work is just so intermittent, depending on what's going on. But yes, for the TV shows when there's productions. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

Would that be so say someone wanted to get in?

SPEAKER_00 58:58

That would be the best time. Yeah. Say that they'll come and assist. Totally. Yeah. We've had some amazing assistance from several years back on The Voice, who I then put on my team. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know them. Exactly. Not only the King Co team, but also the production teams. And it's you see it. Like I said before, you can't hide after 10 to 12 hours a day, every day. And it really shows everyone's true colours. And it's amazing because you see the resilient humans and the ones that are hardworking. Yeah. And you're like, I like you. I want you. And yeah, you steal them. You're like, come on. Come on. Jump on my team. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:36

Jump on my team. Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. Have you direct you've directed shows?

SPEAKER_00 59:43

Yeah. Do you directly show? Fashion shows? Yeah. Yeah. Did you do anything in this fashion? I I couldn't, I just mentally had no break. I see after the literally, so I rapped the two productions that were filmed at the same time. Yeah. As over that, that was intense, and I need a little mini break from that. And then came Fashion Week straight after. Yeah, okay. So for this one, I stepped away. I did I I was asked again, no budget. That's cool. I feel like now rewind to our conversation where we first started. 2003's 2005 Sydney Australian Fashion Weeks, it's just a very different landscape.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

Different landscape.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:25

It's yeah, it's either like you're with a brand with a shark beauty or with a maybe a makeup forever or yeah. But even then, are you getting paid? I'm not sure. I don't know. Yeah, true. I think if I get given a I I did when was it a few seasons ago I've done Stephen Khalil and that was paid through Revlon but and Mariam Sadiq, that was amazing. I have directed a show a few shows this last sort of six, seven years, but it's like you have to feel inspired by the the brand and the the designer for me to go out there. Mariam Sadiq always does something. She's amazing. She is incredible. I see her as she's kind of like a real she's like a real rock star of Australian fashion because she kind of just gets in and she does whatever the fuck she wants to do. Whereas then there's it's a it's she's a bit old school in terms of her aesthetic, but she's super talented. Yeah, I love her, her looks are amazing. You can always see a Miriam Sadiq outfit. You're like, oh, that's gotta be Mariam.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

Yeah. I did hair on one of her shows one year. Oh, did you last year? Oh yeah. Not the one just got on the one for, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

Was that shark as well?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:36

Yeah, it was the hair was amazing. It was with Madison. Madison. Yeah, yeah. It was such a hairstyle. It was so fun to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:45

I remember, was it with the wigs, with the black?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:48

No, it was like one before. It was like came up at the back and then it was quite shape.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Yeah, incredible. Yeah. It was very blade run-up. It was such epic.

unknown 1:02:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

I think I did a few hair on the a few different shows with hair that year, and they were all very natural.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

But this was so I think it's the most exciting fashion week show I've ever done.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:13

But it's Mariam. So Mariam will push. Actually, this was the only season I've seen so far of hers where it was quite neutral. It was quite polished and sophisticated. Yeah. Severe side part, dead straight, just a very understated and understated glam. But this was the first time because normally she loves to push a boundary. Yeah. I did freaking embellish crystals all over the eyes, and I mean this sweep, and they're all different shapes, and yeah, pretty fun. And then I think the year after that there was some bleached out brows and the black wigs. Okay. Yeah. Bleached out brows and then yours was that one previous uh after that. And it was it's just so cool. So cool. And then there's yeah, that's awesome. If you can get in with those kind of diners, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:02

Yeah. Look, it's always fun. But the look as in it's a fun experience because you're just with a whole lot of hair on makeup artists. But is the look gonna be like something you haven't done before? Like far and totally. Yeah, it was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

It was I mean, fashion week, I literally say to everybody who is either starting out or I don't know, 10 years in or whatever, or less in your industry, sorry, in your timeline of the industry. And I always say, you know what, you have to try and do every season. You definitely should just get on a team, and sure, most of it isn't paid anymore. We know this, right? There's a lot of favors still being asked, fashion scene and world, but something you create, that's fine. I'm not gonna draw judgment on that. If you want to do that little freebie for fashion week, that's cool. Or you want to work with that makeup artist and be inspired by we all do that, and yes, there's no harm or shame on that. It is a sh it is a shame that unfortunately there isn't enough money that will make it a thriving week, I said before, but it is what it is, and I'm sure that yeah, I'm sure it'll swing around again, hopefully. Yeah, but yeah, I think it's a thing that you have to do, but I don't know. I feel like as well with fashion week's a week, but for the rest of my year, I feel like I'm directing a lot. Yes, I feel like I don't mind if I step out one week every so often. I'm cool with that because that's some people's that's their week. Yes. I see some amazing makeup artists and they wait for that week to th to thrive and showcase. Yeah, um, whereas I feel like I have a lot of opportunities to direct things and look, Fashion Week is fun because the look of the faces you get to work on. Yeah, that's true. Stunning. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:50

Any is there any struggles that stick out to you through your journey? What do you feel is the biggest struggle as a makeup artist?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

I think if I spoke to my younger self in the 20s, and it was tough building yourself and backing yourself, and backing yourself, yeah. And often a lot of people weren't backing you, and you're really second-guessing yourself. So there were so many no's. Like I'd go to agencies constantly, and this is again the 2000s, where I was trying to find representation, and it was hard because when there were so many no's, you were like, shit, maybe this isn't for me. Yeah, this is maybe this is maybe they're trying to tell me something. I know there's so many times where that's happened, and so many no's for other job jobs. I've had so many no's millions, and then you're just like, okay, nah. Just shut the noise out and just keep going. You just gotta keep going because that may not be your that's not your moment. Yeah, but tomorrow will be. We've got to keep going. And so backing yourself and not listening to the negative noise. I feel like there's so much negative noise. Whether you want to listen to hearing Hearsay or people or gossip or any of that, and be your own backer and be your own judge of opinions, like firsthand, and also yeah, just keep going. You've got to just stay positive. That's it. And today might not be your day for the yeses, but tomorrow will be. That's it. And it might just be a no for now. Exactly. I wish I knew that one earlier. Same. Yeah. And everything was so personalized. I remember calling mum. I'd be crying, going, they said no, there's another no. And she's like, come on, Heidi, don't worry. That's it's not it's not for now.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

I know, I just know for now. Right? I forget now what I've asked. I like because I think my my memory, my brain's just so full. Like, I'll ask for something and then I'll forget that I've asked for it, and then I'm like, oh, I need to follow that up. But that's a good thing for me because oh my gosh, I would wallow in the nose. Not even no. To be honest, no one says no, pillars don't get back to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

Yeah, like true. I think I'm definitely one of them too. Oh my god. It's true. People are busy and also headspace. You're not when that need is needed and it needs to be served, it's gonna happen probably. And don't give up though, either.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

I'm knocking on the door. If I haven't heard back from somebody, not with that, but I think I haven't shown them something that will make them say yes. Totally. So that it that's so good. It then becomes a challenge. That is that is actually the biggest key that is huge. That is what podcast has taught me. Because I I would have any I'm prepared. I for me podcast, it's not about having the the what is perceived to be the biggest and most popular artist. No. For me, it's about having someone on who's got a story to tell that can share with the audience. And if they can convey that to me, and I like the sound of it, come on, let's have a chat.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:03

So exactly I realize that yeah, you if someone's not getting back to me, I just haven't told them what's going to get the message across. Exactly. So that's a lesson for that. That's a big lesson.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:15

That is so big, and that I can say that resonates for me across so many different parts of my work as well. You saying that is this wow, that's a really a key turn. Yeah, in a thing because I think that's such a positive thing to come out of it. It's not a no, it's not a negative. No, you just need to continue knocking on those doors and showing them more. That's fucking cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:40

But also, too, if if someone emailed you and said that they want to be on your team, and if they're showing you something that someone else hasn't shown you or showing you something you need, then you're gonna be like, oh, yeah. Maybe I need them.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:54

Totally. Do you know what I mean? Totally, yes. This is so true. Yeah, no, there is always room, there's always room for more and others, and I don't want to say better because but improvement.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

And moving forward.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:07

I I always used to think everything was about being the best artist you can be. And I just don't think it's necessarily. I'm not sure what that is, though. Yeah, I don't think what is the best artist that you can be? What is that? I don't think it's necessarily technical. I think it's a lot of personality, a lot of the vibe you create. I think it's more that personally than your technical skills. Definitely, definitely. You can might be able to do the meanest wing lighter up, but if no one wants to be around you and you're miserable after ten hours.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

Yeah. I just want to have a good day. Yeah, that's a good idea. I just want to put people on that I know are gonna be easy, breezy, they get the job done, there's no complaints. Yeah. And at the end of the day, I have a bloody laugh with them. Yeah. Because I do love, I love a lol. I just like to have a cackle in the back.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:57

But to be honest, you're you you or Instagram, you on Instagram is how you that is how you come across. Really? Yeah. Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

I do I see. This is the funny thing about Instagram. I don't know how you perceive me on there because or others. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

I feel like I think you completely come across as someone who wants to have a laugh.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:19

Okay, that's good, because I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:21

Completely how you come across.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:23

I hope I'm not too serious, because I'm certainly not really. I do want to have fun. I want to have a good day. Yeah, no, I know that's how you come across. And I want to do a great job. Of course. First and foremost, want to make them happy. Yeah. People are ha people are gonna be happier with their hair and make it when they're having fun. Yeah. That's it. Just make them laugh. Yeah. Tell a funny story, listen to them. And I think most of it is about listening. Yeah. But once the job's done and we do a good job, then we can have a laugh. Yeah, yeah. That's the bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:53

You don't want yeah we don't want someone laughing so much that they're running an hour behind. That's important. No, that's it. I guess it's knowing your place.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

It's happened, it's happened.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:02

Yeah. Sh've suck it up. Slip it. Gotta be quiet. Now you have some kit favourites here. Oh, yes, I do. What's in my makeup? Line them over. Yes.

unknown 1:11:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:17

And there's no favourites. It's not one to five. It's just these are the current and ongoing. Because it's probably, it could change at any moment. I know what we're on. You know what I'm saying? I will say this though. So this came out, this is the by Terry Hydra Hyrolonic powder. So this one came out. I remember I was still in London and it was Space NK. Space NK is like the equivalent of Mecca here. And it's got similar brands, actually. It does, yeah. And it was so good, was it so beautiful? Space NK. And it was in self-ridge as well, I think. Yeah. But I remember stumbling upon it, and because I wanted a no powder, and that is exactly what it is. It's like it just fills in the lines, the pores, and literally nobody doesn't get this in my chair. This is the powder. And then was that 15 years ago? So you've had it. So this is a staple. I think I'm by Terry DeGusenberg, I'm paying for her rent. This is her mortgage right here. We need to get your EPR. Payroll. So that's been the staple. Amazing. Love that. And then as a makeup artist, exactly as you said, there are new things that come and go. I will probably say this is new. So Mac My OGs. This is like a tattoo. Ooh. A tattoo. You know how all the girlies love a tight line now? Yeah. It's all about the tight line, the waterline inside. So tight lining, obviously, I'm not gonna differences. We know tight lining is in between the lashes, whereas inner waterline is inside the wet part of the eye. But either way, this is phenomenal. It's called a gel, it's the tat, it's a tattoo. So it doesn't imprint like all the others. Yeah. So it doesn't transfer when it doesn't. It doesn't transfer. It's oh yeah, and it's so tiny.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

I'm just gonna put that on and leave it. Yeah. Oh, it doesn't look like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:07

Because that's my new thing. Oh and there's so many cute colours actually. I think they've got like ten colours or something.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

Colour excess.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:20

I think very smooth.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:23

Really smooth. Gel pencil.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:25

Okay, so that's one of your new faves. That's a new favey. Another new fave is obviously I love W Cosmetics. Yes. Oh my god, there's so many winners in there. So many. One of my favourite brands is Heart Percent. Yeah, fantastic. So it's all about the we are all doing this lip contour. Yeah, we love it. We love it. But it's not for every lip, I must say, by the way. Have you done a certain talent or your people, your personals, and then you're like, and they're like, babe, it's got it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:53

It's it's gotta be really blended. It can almost make someone look like they've got maybe a little bit of a moustache.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:58

Yeah, it's so true.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:01

Don't you think? Yeah, so it's definitely got to be on the right person and blind.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:06

It does. Yeah. So this colour, though, I have to say, is such a great colour. And we just do that Cupid's bow and then blend, and then under, and it does give that beautiful little shadow. And that is a fantastic colour. Oh no, you don't need to. It's just meant to be quite chubby.

unknown 1:14:24

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:24

Because it's really just for a sheer shade. It's a good colour. It's the best. It's nice and light. It's such a universal colour. And obviously, I've got a darker one for the deeper skin tones as well. But half percent have incredible lip products.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:38

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

So definite, Fave. Not moving. Not oh, see you later. It's not moving. See you next Tuesday. It's yeah. It's really long wear. Here's the thing about Mac, you know, the OGs who understand long wear. Yeah. They get it. They know what's going on with the long wear. So I have to say, this is probably the ride or die mascara. Oh, okay. And it's the one I keep coming back to. I've gotten every single one of my clients onto it. Yeah. I only use tubing mascara.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:08

And this one I'm excited to use. This is frickin'.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:11

It's Tarte. Oh XL. Is that new? It's like a couple years. Oh god. Oh my god, it's oh so good. So you know how the tubing, I don't know if you've experienced this. Oh, I can only wear tubing. I can only wear tubing, but most of them are too fine. Yeah, that's you can't build a lash. A chunky boy. This is a building, instant building lash, like goodbye, one stroke and it's there. Sorry. Sorry, I'm so sorry. Zoom in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:42

Oh, it's a that's a nice, it's heavy.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

It is a heavy one. True. So this doesn't honestly it builds a lash. We got it on now. Yeah. And I've got no lashes, nothing. Yeah, I've got stumps. I've got absolutely you're gonna love this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:56

Okay. Yeah, I if you don't have to wear tubing, you just don't get tubing, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:01

Like, no, but it's like the new resistant, like water resistant. Yeah. We as I probably like me, water resistant will transfer. It does. What do you do? And I'm not wearing waterproof because it's gonna be waterproof transfer. Yeah. Waterproof transfers, I find. Really? Yeah, because it's the oil. Yeah, exactly. So it's too hard. So yeah, tubing's the only way. And then I love these, these are new release from NARS. These creams, they're so beautiful. They look airbrushed.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:31

I think it's similar to something they had out years ago. They must have changed the colours in the tube.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:35

They've changed the colours. That is such a beautiful blush. I know. It looks a little bit like a day in the sun.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:43

Oh, that's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:44

Yeah, so stunning. And then I have to show you this one. They've got all sorts. But what I love mostly is obviously we love glass skin now.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:52

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:52

But this is clear. So if you're doing an editorial and you want that glazed, like pure wet look.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:00

You can see it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

Without the shine. You know, it's really hard to find a highlighter without shine. Yeah, without the sparkle. Exactly. It feels good. The sparkle, yeah. So good. That one's amazing. So yeah, I'm loving those. And they're multi-purpose. You can put them on eyes, cheeks, lips, whatever. And then I've got the Mecha Max, the zoom sticks. I've got every colour. Yeah. This colour's like a rosy colour. Oh. Oh, dusty row. It's really cute. And what I like about them is they do actually set. They do. Yeah. So they're really good for long wear as a lovely base, and you can shear them out with concealer. Ah, that could be good on the lip. Oh, yeah, that would be good. Actually, I haven't tried that. I wonder if you I'm sure you can ingest everything. Oh sure, I never thought of that. Disclaimer. Maybe I love that. Maybe check. Oh, and this one. And then finally, I literally run through this. Snoopes.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:02

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:03

Every time I'm brushing it on with my Ray Morris brush, everyone's like, what is that? It's the smell. Yeah. It's oh my gosh, that one's it's it smells rich. It smells bougie. That's the limited edition one. I've got both. But I love that one. That I haven't smelled this one. I've got the other version. It's just natural, such a natural oils in it and natural florals. And people are like, that is luxe and beautiful. Oh, and what I love about it is a dry oil. So it will set in. It doesn't stay wet. It sort of dries in, but still gets that beautiful glow. It just makes the skin really.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:42

It's such I feel like it's such an experience product. Yes. Because the smell is amazing. It's and there's a shimmery one too with glitter.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:52

It is a shimmery one. I'm not a fan of that. I like to create my own shimmer. Yeah. We all do that, right? Yeah. When you mix it. What's the product you use? That's five. I'd be like, can I get that? I'm like, yeah. Yeah, I don't know. What lip was that? There were three liners and then there were four lips too.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:13

Just have a go. There you go. Just do your best. I can't do that. No. Good luck.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:21

Any career highlights that popped to mind?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:23

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

Oh, like I said before, I think the Pat McGrath experience was phenomenal and being on their team. Yeah. Just experiencing their talents and just that level. Yeah. Is wild and incredible and very inspiring. Working with Dottie, she was just incredible. You still? Yeah, every single like she still, oh my god, she still likes my Instagram posts and stories. I'm like, you're liking my work. No way. It makes me feel like, oh my god. Yeah, she's amazing. And yeah, just on Insta. Yeah. I'm just still a massive fan. And I think probably in terms of directing, The Cardio stands out because it was the biggest event in Australia that has happened for luxury. So that was at the Opera House. And so what happened was I actually, this is a funny one, it was a double job for me. So what happened was I was asked three months prior with IMG Focus, the production company, hey, we're putting on this massive event. I'm gonna need your agency who have about, we're probably gonna need, there's about maybe 40 to 50 hair and makeup simult at the same time in about 10 different hotels in Sydney that will need to happen between one and three o'clock. Yeah. Go. Boom! Yep. That was when I first moved to Sydney and I did do hair, I think, for one time. Yes, you did. You were on the team. Yeah. Hey, I need to put you back in this the chat. What hang on? What did you put you were in the you're in the cardiac chat? I was in the cardio chat, yeah. I need to put you in the Kinko chat for sure. Right. I won't say no to that. How did that slip through the nets? So yeah, that was wild. That was huge. It was huge. Because we also had to get up to the rooms. Had to get up to the rooms. You had so I had separate teams at the Crown, at the Sofotel, at the Intercontinental, Langham, every single massive. So I had a total, and then on top of that, so there was actually a beautiful runway show. So the production company who I work with a lot, Riser, who are phenomenal. They're the leaders, they're incredible. They reached out and said, Hey, can you direct the makeup on the show? I'm like, hell yeah. So a total on that day, I had 63 hero makeup artists working for me in a space of a few hours. And it was huge. And it was such it was very stressful, but I also loved it. And I had people, I had two ICs. Yeah, you had other people. I had other lots of people. I had it's never one person. There's someone else there. We met yeah, so I had point of contact at every single hotel. And I had been running the I it became almost a full-time job running it behind the scenes with the comms with the productions. It was a lot, but it was so worth it. I felt I couldn't believe that I hit it off. I was like, please, God, please, will this be a success? And I hope this works, and there's no and there was no hiccups, everyone was super happy, but I had such good feedback from everyone. Yeah, every single one of the cardio VIPs loved their hair and makeup artists, they had nothing but good things to say, yeah, and it was such a vibe, and obviously working on the show was amazing as well, and I had another team on that. So that was a huge highlight.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:48

Yeah, that would be a massive that was a huge highlight, and from being like from the point that I was actually part of it, and all of these hair and makeup artists in this foyer, it was just wild. Yeah, it would have been. It was there's so many.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:02

I haven't seen you for 10 years.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:03

I was only new, I was new to Sydney's. Yeah, there was people who I'd seen on Instagram, and yes, yeah, it was That's awesome. Yeah, it was it was what a great introduction. And look, hair and makeup artists, they're fun, they're nice, nice, true, they're great, totally yeah. No, it was a good experience.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:22

That was great, good, yeah, it was so good. That's all we want, though, isn't it? Yeah, we just want a good day. You do, so when it goes off without a hitch, you're just like, thank god. Yeah, so that was cool. I don't know, hopefully the best is yet to come. That's some fair experience. Feel like the best is still yet to come. I do believe that there's been some amazing ones, yeah, and working, yeah, working overseas has been amazing with all the people. I have to say, one other highlight would have been working with assisting her name's Virginia Young, a very high-end New York makeup artist with Streeters. Yeah, and I ended up working with her a few times, and one of which days was ID magazine. Oh yeah. And it was with Lara Stone, the model, yeah, Eva Herzegoa. Yeah. And she was so nice to me. Virginia was like, I want you to do this full makeup. Oh wow. Go do it. And I got to do Eva. And there were a few other models that day, and it was working with what's his name, Luigi on hair. Okay. Huge, just huge wigs. This was fashioned at its finest. It was so inspiring. But yeah, like things like that. You just get asked to do these random days, and you're just like, wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:37

But that sounds great. Any any final pieces of advice that we haven't touched on for artists? I think we've touched on a lot of advice actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:46

I think so. I don't know. I think rounding it up again is backing yourself and just believing in yourself and keep going. And even when all the negatives, there's a lot of negative self-talk we always have, but you just gotta really wipe out that noise and stick on the positive. I think as well, when you're your own boss as a freelance, it's tough. You get lonely as well. I think that's why I need teams around me because I love having people around me. Yeah. So that's why I create teams. But I it is freelancer life is really lonely. It is, and you don't have a soundboard to and to see where you're at. There's no soundboard. I so my advice would be to work on as many teams as you can and as often as you can, because do you know what? That's when I learn the most. I learn so much from all my peers. Absolutely. Constantly, I'm always learning. And so that that is the best piece of advice. Yeah. Love that. Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:44

Thank you, Hardy. Thanks for thanks for joining me today on the Makeup Insider. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe, and I'll see you soon. Bye for now.