From Sephora to Touring with Kesha: Alana Lucky on Building a Career in Makeup

Link to blog - all products mentioned linked. 

Alana has been doing makeup for 12 years. She started fresh out of high school, worked the floor at Sephora's Broadway store, moved to London at 21 with zero plan and a backpack full of kit, built a career doing campaigns for Jaded London, came back to Australia during COVID, assisted the incredible Gillian Campbell, and has most recently been touring the world with Kesha.

Oh, and she's now signed with a talent agency for her content. The girl moves.

In this episode we get into:

• Why working retail at Sephora is the best foundation you'll ever get (and why it's also exhausting as hell)
• What it's actually like to do hair and makeup in London for an Uber-style beauty app
• The Jaded London campaign that changed everything
• COVID killing her momentum right when things were starting to move — and coming back from that
• Assisting Gillian Campbell and why feeling valued on set matters more than people admit
• What a day on tour with Kesha actually looks like (spoiler: you can't poo on the bus)
• The longevity routine she used to make Kesha's base last through a full concert
• How a TikTok she almost didn't post got her 27,000 followers in a month
• Why people don't care who you are on TikTok — they just want to learn something
• Everything being an exchange and why that's not a bad thing
• What's next: Europe, Canada, America and a product line in the works

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Hi and welcome to the Makeup Insider. I'm your host, Vanessa Barney, makeup artist, hairdresser, educator and all-around beauty junkie. If you've ever felt lost or lonely in your makeup career, this podcast is for you. I'm here to interview makeup artists and other industry professionals to give guidance and be the mentor I needed early in my career. With a new episode every Tuesday, don't forget to hit subscribe so you don't miss a trick. And if you like what you hear, please rate and leave a comment. I hope you enjoy. Yes, and we've got lots to talk about today. So thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Okay. How long have you been doing makeup? I've been doing it for 12 years. 12 years? Yeah. So a long time. Came out of high school and I was like, I this is what I want to do. Like all my friends were going to uni. I was like, okay, I think I'm just gonna give it a go. Yeah. And then get stuck.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

So did you love makeup in school? Oh, I was obsessed. Okay, so you've always been obsessed with makeup.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yeah. Yeah. But my auntie, she was really fabulous woman and lived in London or England. And we would go for dinner. Yeah. And she would go to the bathroom between courses and touch up her lippy. And my mum, she does makeup, but she's not like a glam beat, full beat kind of girl. And I would just be like, oh my god, she's so fabulous. And I was obsessed. Yeah. And that was like me done.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

That's where it all began. Okay. So school, became makeup arts. Did you do a course or anything?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Or you I did a six-month course at a place called the Academy of Makeup.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

I don't know if it's still Is that Gorgeous Cosmetics?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was interesting. Like I I've there's a few of the girls from my year group that, or like my course group, that still do makeup, but it's make I feel like it's such a hard industry. You do the course and then it's like translating that into a career is like so hard. It's hard.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah. Especially when you're that young. Like if you're fresh out of school, it's hard. Yeah. Because freelancing life is so hard because you actually have to, you're your own boss. You don't have to you have to drive yourself. Yeah. That is, and that's really hard, I think. So hard. Okay, finish your course. What'd you do then?

SPEAKER_00 2:23

So then I got a job full-time at Sephora in I opened the Broadway store, which was the second store in Australia, I believe. Or maybe there was one. Opened a store in in Broadway. And it was great. The first two weeks were like back-to-back trainings on like all the brands. We got so many free products, it was like my dream. And then we opened the store, we had to learn a dance, which was hilarious. Learned to dance, and then the opening of the store happened, and I was like, Oh. Now I gotta sell things to people. I'm like, this isn't what I want to do. But then I ended up doing the beauty studio artist. I got that role, which was like doing the makeup in store. And I loved that. But like I was full-time, so I was there for two years, and I would avoid customers. I'd be like, leave, literally leaving you by. I was like either organizing drawers or doing someone's makeup. Yep. Like But that's what you want to do, right? Yeah. Nothing in between. I was like, yeah, I'm like, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

So with the whole how you did makeups, did you get to do a call? Did you have to do their training?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

They just like you had an interview and you did someone's makeup and they see how you do, and you have a very short amount of time. You get 45 minutes to do a full face. Yeah. And collect the products that match the skin tone. Then sell them and then take them to the register and then the hours of. Have you got someone to sanitize for you? Have you got to do it like yourself? Some of the people would sanitize when we had a really big day, but we'd have to do it ourselves sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Because also you've probably got such varied clients coming in as to what they want. You might get a full beat and then you might get I had face paint, I had like a real full beat type thing.

SPEAKER_00 4:14

It was fun, but I guess it taught me A, how to be quick, and B, like how to just work with whoever's in your chair. And I think that's a real skill that as a makeup artist you need to know. Absolutely. And I think that doing retail is the groundwork for a good career. Absolutely. And it sucks. Yeah. And I wouldn't want to do it again, but I'm so grateful for those years that I did because now I can colour match anybody, I can work with any skin type or concern. I have so much knowledge on product that I would never have had had I not gone through that.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

But also, I think there's so much in the conversation. There's the product side and application, but then there's also the talking to people about what they want, the language they use. People don't actually, they say completely different things to what I interpret it to mean. Do you know what I mean? So learning the language of how to get out what they want. I want a natural makeup. No, you just want natural colours. Yeah. That kind of thing. I think learning that language is such a huge thing. So when you were working at Sephora for that two years, did you do any photo shoots or test shoots or I was testing a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

I did some weddings, but it just wasn't really I was I was full-time. Like I was so in it. I also have just got recently got diagnosed with ADHD. And I think that that on and ha da is so exhausting for me that by the end of my five-day week, I would be like, Yeah, I don't want to do anything. Yeah. But then I moved to London. Oh, okay. So I moved to London when I was 21, and I was like, I'm gonna go there and I'm gonna be a makeup artist, and I'm not gonna do anything else, and I'm not gonna get a bar job, and I'm just gonna be a makeup artist. And I did that, and it was awful. It was so hard. And I had no friends because I wasn't working with, but I ended up working for this app that was called Blow Limited. So it was a blow dry service that was like Uber for makeup and hair. Yeah. So I would get an app and someone would request me on the app, and I'd go to their house and like making no money, and they taught me how to do hair. They taught you to do hair. There was a free course that they did, and I learned how to do hair and blow dries. I'm actually really good at a blow dryer. Because blow dries are hard. Yeah. I remember the first time I did the test, and I kept doing it and I kept apologizing. Yeah. Because I was like trying to get tension and like I it was like naughty, and I was like, sorry, sorry, and I didn't pass, and she was like, You need to say sorry less. And I'm like, Yeah, because competence is such a big thing. Yeah. That if you don't feel competent, people know it. People are gonna be like, what are you doing? Yeah. And that's annoying. Yeah. That is one of my most hated things, is incompetent. If you're having a service, I'm like, do they not know what they do? It's an energy, right? Yeah, it's off-putting.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Yeah. So you've learned they taught you to blow wave. That is such that is so good. Because I think blow drying teaches you so much about hair. Yeah. If you can blow dry, I think you can really handle hair well. Yeah. Because it's hard. It is hard.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

And it's a lot of the coordination and just the motor skills. Yeah. And I think that because even when I teach people how to do makeup, yeah, I what I notice is the motor skills of blending an eyeshadow or different things. I'm like, oh, the way your hand is moving is so funny because that's you're just not used to it. Yes. And I think that is what makes an artist is you just that repetition and all of these things that your motor skills are like, it's second nature. Yeah. It's like, oh, of course, this is easy for me to do because I do it all the time, and learning that takes time.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

But I sorry, I lived in London as well.

unknown 8:00

It's brutal.

SPEAKER_01 8:02

Yeah, mine was a probably before you were born. No. How old are you? Maybe no, no. I'm 30 this year. No, it wasn't before you were born. But the tube with your kit. Oh my gosh. What? A hair and makeup kit? I had it both in a backpack.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

All of it in a backpack. Yeah, it was what is that brand Zuka? Yeah. They have a backpack and I had my hair and my makeup. So I had a blow dryer, a straightening iron, and a curling iron. Yeah. And some heat protector, a smoothing cream, and hairspray. Like minimum. Maybe a mousse. Yeah. And like a styling mousse. So it was always a blow wave. It was well with this app, it was like always the same thing. Like you weren't gonna be like, I had the pins for an updo if I needed it. It was very straightforward. Yeah. There was a couple of times I remember I got I went to someone's hotel and she had a weave.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

And it was like wet. And I just had no idea how to deal with it. And she was like, my hair still feels wet. And I was like, Yeah. Sorry? I yeah. It probably wouldn't even wet at the stitching, right? Yeah, it was like all at this it was just a mess, and I was just like literally getting paid 20 pounds. So how is that I was getting paid nothing. So you get got 20 quid for both. I got 20 pounds for a blow dry. Yeah. And I think I would get 45 to do makeup. So that's a 90 Australian dollars. Yeah. But in my head, I was like, or I'm working at a bar and I'm getting paid 8 pounds. Yeah. Whereas I can make 20 pounds an hour, I'm working for myself, and after working at Sephora, I was like, I don't want a boss. Yeah. Because I think I'm really bad with authoritative figures. Yeah. And then I become a bit like Fuck you. Yeah, I become a bit fuck you. And like, and the thing was, I ended up by the time I left, like, my managers, like, who I really liked, they were like, come on. Just and I was like, I don't want to be here. And like that shows, and I think when I don't want to do something, I'm not really good at being like I'm very like, you know, I don't want to be here.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

I can't hide it on my face.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

No, I'm like, I'm an open book.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah. It's bad. So then I was like, I don't want to do something I don't want to do. So I'm doing this thing. Yes, okay. So it makes sense to me why you did it. And what were they paying for the service for a blow wave? I think they were paying 40 bucks, 50 bucks, 50 pounds. Oh jeep. Yeah, 40 or 50 pounds.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

I still blow waves are so labor intensive. I remember I went to this one woman's house, and she was like she's o girl boss, like mum of three with like her nanny, and like she had the shortest, thinnest blonde hair. Yeah. And she just wanted me to blow it straight. And I was like, this takes 10 or 15 minutes. Yeah. If that. Like, no time at all. And she'd always tip me because she had money and like. Then I ended up getting this one client who was like a beautiful woman who would come into town all the time and she'd get me to do her makeup for coffee, and she'd pay me in American money, and she would pay me like 200 US dollars, which was way more than my rate. Because she found me through the app and you weren't really paying the people, but like she was like, Can I just get your number? And then, yeah. So then I had my own little clients coming forward. Oh, that would have been good. I learned how to do spray tan. Like, I was doing it all. You learn how to do spray tan? Yeah, I was just like, how can I make more? You were the beauty girl.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Yeah. Okay. Do you think by the time you left how long were you there? Three years. Just under three years. Did you think you had a little successful business going on by the time you left?

SPEAKER_00 11:29

I was transitioning into photo shoots. So then I did that for the first year, and then I was doing some test shoots. I did this one test shoot that I met my friend Maddie, who was styling at Jaded London, and she got me in for makeup and they really liked me. And then I would do a lot of their campaigns and their e-com and like from there that got me noticed by other brands because they're like a really cool London brand. And always the makeup was so fun. So it was like a great client to have because it showed off like this other skill set that I wanted to like really nurture. Um and then yeah, I would get like other clients and all of these things, and it was just really fun. And then COVID happened. Started getting the momentum happening, and I was like, okay, like this is good. Booking campaigns, like it was getting really exciting, and then it was COVID. And I stayed in London until the end of the year, and I wasn't gonna come back, but then my landlord was selling our house, and I was like, I'll just be gone for a couple months. And then that was six years ago. Did you have a passport? Yeah, I've got a British passport. Okay, so you could go back. Where'd you live? Just out of matter of I lived in Kennington, which is like I lived in Castle Way. Oh yeah. It was a really good stop on the tube line because it was the branch of the northern line. So you get to both.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah. I lived way further south. I was in like Tooting. Oh yeah. Yeah. And worked in Clapham Junction. Oh yeah. Yeah, look, I loved my London days. I don't really there. I was there for just over three years.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

I lived in Scotland really briefly as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

I was there 2004 to the beginning of 2007.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Bit into it. I was a hairdresser. I worked in salons. Yeah. And I did my first ever makeup course there. Do you know the model Jody Kidd? You might not, you might have to do it. I actually think I do. Well, she's got a sister, Gemma Kidd, and Gemma started a makeup line and she used to assist Mary Greenwell's. So I did this week-long makeup course while I lived in London and wanted to go on and do makeup. Didn't happen.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Because it's not that easy at all.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yeah, I think you have to be a little bit crazy to want to do makeup. Yeah. There has to be like some form of insane dog in you. You've got to love it so much. Yeah, I sometimes I'm like, I wish I just wanted to do a nine to five. Yeah. I it would it wouldn't it I would hate it, but sometimes I'm like, I just wish that this was like clear, linear career progression. I'm like, each year I know I am gonna make more money.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah, because it's the linear rhyme. Yeah, I'm like it's like you do this and then you get a promotion to this. Yeah. It ain't that isn't how it works in makeup. No. At all. No, but not at all. And you may never get that progression you want. Yeah. Because it's so much about who you know and I think social media maybe makes it a little bit. I don't know, you can get the information a bit easier now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

You can put yourself out there more now. Yeah, I think it it stops it from being such a metropolitan area basis. You need to be like in the big cities to like grow your career. And you can be in butt fuck nowhere. Yeah. And post content and do that, and I think that is something that's so incredible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:40

And like you can do makeup on yourself and make it a career. It doesn't have to just be on clients. Yeah. Did you have any incredible opportunities while you were living in London?

SPEAKER_00 14:50

I got to travel a little bit around with Jaded, and that was really cool. I think that was super special. I got to work with some celebrities for the first time, and I think that just things like that, which I was like, oh, I'm really doing it. That was really exciting. And then when I came back to Australia, it was like that whole career never happened. Yes. No one knew who I was before I got I left. Yeah. No agents were like keeping tabs on me. Yeah. Oh, she's gone and done that. Okay. I came back and I've had meetings since with agents, and they're like, you really should go overseas, and I'm like, oh you've got it! Because it was hard, and I would never live in London again. It's just not your thing? No.

unknown 15:30

Yeah, no. No.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

I think after Brexit as well. It's not hard.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Did you do any fashion week stuff while you were there?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

No. And this was another thing. I was so young and stubborn and I didn't assist a single person. But you didn't, did you know to? I knew to, but I was like. I think I'd reached out and to some agencies about assisting and not really heard back, and I was like busy doing my own thing and making enough money. And I didn't want to work for free. And you know, I was just a little bit naive.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

When you don't I don't think really any of us want to work for free, but I'm I guarantee you I would work for free again if I thought it was gonna get m something else.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I also think assisting when I came back to Australia, I started assisting because I was like, okay, I don't people don't know me. And I started assisting Gillian Campbell. Yeah. And they're amazing. And I think that I remember we went for coffee and they were like asking me about makeup and I love it so much, and I just felt really lost, and I wasn't we were having a conversation, and I actually started crying and I felt really embarrassed because I was like, I just want to do this so bad. And I don't know, it was just really awesome because I look at Jillie's work and I'm like, wow, you've done so much and it's so incredible. And I was like feeling really inspired, and we were having this conversation, and it was just really special. And we ended up, I assisted them for two years after that, and it was really great. And I think that it put me in the room with the right people, and I learn a lot. And I think when you're insisting, you're not making a great rate, but you're getting paid education, you're getting paid to learn. Yes. And I think that is something that had I known that info in London, I would have been like dying to assist. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

I think too like when you learn makeup, you can maybe sometimes think you know it all, right? Maybe you know what I mean? And then but you don't realise there's makeup and then there's the other part of being a makeup artist. Yeah, it's like set etiquette. Yeah, and you're like, I don't know, I just think you don't know that. And then when you finally work out, oh, I need to know that, you know, there's a few years that have gone by, right? Yeah. So you assisted Jillie for two years. Is Julie here? No, Jillie's moved to Paris. She's the yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

I don't really assist anymore. Okay. I think I just took a step back to do my own thing, and I was busy enough that I was happy to not assist anymore. Yeah. You you were connected with Jillie, yeah? Yeah, and I liked assisting Julie. It's like we had a rapport, I felt like very respected by them, that was really important to me because I've had experiences of feeling like oh, you're just the assistant, and like that is so insane because I'm like every single person on set is valuable. And like there's yes, there might be like a hierarchical idea, but at the end of the day, like when we leave this set, like we are all human beings, and if you're treating people less than, I think that's like pretty like disgusting. Yeah, and yeah, I've had a couple of times where I'm like I've left and I've been like, oh yeah, like I was not valued today.

SPEAKER_01 18:38

Yeah, I've left sets feeling that way. Yeah, yeah. I think I've really come to the decision that I won't don't really want to assist anymore. It just depends. If a friend needs help, I might.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

But yeah, I do think that not feeling valued or feeling that feeling that you walk away with, if that does happen, does it it kind of damages you in a way for a while, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:01

Like you know what? I actually feel like it's the best thing that can happen, like it that's happened to me, because any assistant I have, I'm going to be like so grateful. Yeah. I'm like, if I don't have budget, I'm bringing you product. Like I'm making you feel like valued, and like I will never not do that. Sometimes I'll have an assistant, it can make it harder in that day, but that I'm just like, okay, they're not my assistant, or they're not someone and it's trial and error, and it's just that is what it is. You don't connect with everyone always. Yes, and that's actually fine.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Is a connection thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, I agree. And it's also reading what people need and like being intuitive and all of these things, and I think that I think that something that I'm thinking about now, it's like I can be quite anxious about reading the room and like making sure I'm understanding someone's emotions, and I think that hyper awareness when assisting actually benefits me because I'm like, okay, I know exactly what you need, and oh yeah, you want me to okay, maybe I shut up now, or like you want me to I've seen you've been using this product and you're about to do that step, so I'm gonna offer it to you. Anticipation. Anticipation, and that's like not everyone does that.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Yeah, and I think that that is a really good thing to have. So when you came back, you assisted. What what else did you do for work?

SPEAKER_00 20:16

I actually worked at a brewery and I it was so great, and I made a lot of friends, and I just like not focusing so much of my life around being a makeup art like I had in London, and so I wasn't as stressed about oh, I haven't got this job, or like da-da-da. And then slowly I built up more of a basis of work, and I didn't need to work there anymore. And then, yeah, I was I do a lot of musicians. I love working with musicians. I think I really like working for other artists. There's a collaborative process, and I think that something that I've been reflecting on recently is the way in which I have envisioned who I am in an industry or trying to be what an industry needs, wants me to be rather than what I want to be. Yeah. And I think that I've finally gotten to a place like where I'm like, I love a beat, I love glam, I like it to still be elevated. Yeah. I'm not doing I still work for magazines, I can do multi, I can be multifaceted. Yeah. That's okay. And it still feels like me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

Like so you're putting your own spin on what you're doing or what you're posting, maybe or what you're putting out there. And when you started doing that, do you feel like that's when things you felt more true to you? Or like maybe things moved in the direction you want them to be?

SPEAKER_00 21:38

I just definitely started aligning a bit more. Aligning that's the word. But it's still hard. I don't feel like I'm where I want to be, but I also know where I want to be, and I know that it will happen. Yeah. I know exactly what is going to happen in my career. Like where I'm gonna it just takes time. I'm just the it's like the best and worst thing is how determined I am because I'm like it will happen. And like I will make it but it'll kill me.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

What what what are your weeks like? What do you spend most of your time? I know they're probably very varied. It's so different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

I think that some weeks I'm like really busy, some weeks I have nothing. And it's funny because I feel like recently like I've been doing my tour and stuff like that. And people are like, oh my God, you're killing it. And I went on holiday last year for three months. It was like really needed. I felt very burnt out. And I came back and I hadn't got anything. And I was like, my friend had started posting on TikTok. Yes. And she was like, I'm a 2026 bride. And like she gained a bunch of followers like overnight and I was like I can I got something to say like I'm gonna do it. And yeah and so I started doing that. So when I'm slow I have something that I'm still focused on outside of this which is nice.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

Yeah it's really it like freelancing's hard when you're not working. And then when it's really hard when you're really busy.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

The ups and the downs roller coaster. Yeah it is I rem one of a really good piece of advice I got was I'm very money focused. I think like that's my hobby. Like it's it's like a special interest of mine. And I think with freelancing you have really big earning weeks and then you have times when you're making fuck all and I was I learned don't basically the advice was have a budget a spending plan. Basically if you have a spending plan you streamline exactly what you're gonna spend each week. So if you have the highs and the lows and the highs and the lows each week you know what you need to spend and you're not going over that so on your big week slowing it.

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Yeah so you know what your weekly cost is basically to survive rent whatever. And so you only spend that so what you've got left over is there for a rainy day. Yeah it's it goes into my overflow account and then my overflow account pays me yes a weekly salary. Oh that's okay that's good that's a good way of doing it. The money goes into that account and every week you just take out your weekly salary. So it's like you've got a job. Exactly you know what I mean like a that's smart.

SPEAKER_00 24:04

Yeah because otherwise yeah I would be like I'm so rich yeah I've made thousands of dollars hey dinner's on me girls and then I'd be like I guess it's beans so yeah I think finding the money thing has helped me a lot with being able to have those slow weeks and not be like what the fuck am I doing? We know you're gonna survive. And I think that taking that out of the equation like really helps calm my mind when I'm not having those busy weeks because every week it does look different. It does and like it's very easy to compare yourself and think everyone's working all the time and yes hearing people do that to me I'm like oh I do that to you so you must we're all struggling we're not all killing it and social media is fake and I know that but my brain doesn't remember that.

SPEAKER_01 24:58

Yeah and so yeah I think that like it's like people say to me oh you're killing it I'm like oh I've just been scrolling on Seek looking for a career change and you think I'm killing it. Yeah I know even when I'm like when I'm posting I do I will say I do post not to look busy I post to be top of mind actually to remind people I exist but when I'm posting it's never to be like hey guys I'm killing it that's just not what I think I don't think any of us are really thinking that yeah it's definitely not what I'm thinking but when you see other people you're like oh wow that's amazing what a bit of that you just mentioned tour I really want to chat about the tour you went on. Tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

So touring with Kesha amazing yay girl she's just like the best person ever like such a fun client like real down to earth just great fun. And she's been through like stuff and I think that she's a real one and like I hate that she's had to deal with that but like also she's just so grounded and awesome and she's taken a chance on me and I think as someone from Australia like how'd she find you how did this happen I got my informate I had I worked with an agent from New Zealand and he had a friend in New York who was an agent and she got asked to book makeup for her tour it at the start of 2025. So she came for one show at Mmore Theatre I got asked I was like hell yeah like did her makeup and then that was kind of it and then I saw that she was coming back and I was like oh I should reach out and obviously forget and then I'm like oh it's coming up and then her manager followed me on Instagram and I was like oh this is good this is good okay I'm gonna email and she DM'd me and so I was like oh my god this is so exciting and yeah I'd love to and they had asked me to do the full two week tour and then ended up going with a different artist for majority of the tour and I just did Adelaide and Perth and I think something that I was really proud of was a year or two ago that would have killed me and I would have just been like crashing out. And I was just like okay they went a different direction and I'm still excited to go and do my shows and I get to travel and that's so exciting and I'm just gonna do the best I can. Yeah. And I went and I did the best I can and I was leaving the Perth show and I was like this has been the best this is so fun and it's not just her it's the whole crew and you get to watch a show every night and it's just it's so fun. And I'd said to the tour manager I was like oh I wish I could come to Europe being cheeky like if you need me like I'm I can clear my schedule and she went we don't actually have someone in Europe booked and I was like okay and she's okay we'll see what we can do and yeah then they asked me to go and it was the the war had started in Iran and all the air spaces closed and they had to reroute the tour and it was just very uncertain for a little bit and then we went to Paris and we got on a tour bus and we were just riding around and it was a lot it was very much like a show a travel day a show travel day but I was so excited by everything. Yeah I was just like whoa this is so awesome yeah I'm getting paid yeah like how cool and also working every day yeah it's just when I'm working I love to work I'm very like hardworking but you're not always afforded that so being on tour and working a lot I was like oh I feel so good. Like you feel like you've made it right yeah I've made it as amazing that's how I would feel I mean like I think it was amazing. I was feeling really good but I also yeah very proud of myself but I also know that a job can't make you and it can't break you and I think that is like another really good piece of advice that I've learned because I've had jobs that I've done a bad job and I'm like oh god I'm never gonna work here again everyone's gonna know how bad I am and like you've done a bad job you've just thought you'd done a bad job yeah I've maybe not felt the best or like I've not delivered things in the way that I want to or yeah I've just felt you haven't felt good about yeah the what you've put out yeah yeah or someone's booked someone else for the next or I don't know it's shit like that.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Yeah that's that's a lot that happens doesn't that happens I think we all feel like that right we just don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Yeah you're like why did that happen? And it's like why does anything happen? Yeah it's it's honestly most of the time not about you. Yes and you do feel more connected and you can be yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah I don't know no I could that's I think that's a really good I wish I'd learnt that sooner in my career. You the right clients will find you you're not going to be aligned with everybody that's okay yeah but you will find your people yeah and that's and there's room for everyone there's room for everyone so with working with Keshar, how did you know what to charge?

SPEAKER_00 30:12

They had a rate that a budget around they had a budget yeah and so I even better I had come at them with a rate that I had charged the first time. Yeah but it was a bit different this time because there was more travel and there was so we negotiated and yeah but I ultimately I think was a bit like well this is an amazing opportunity that I'm down. Yeah and now they asked me once once so we did Europe then they asked me like a couple weeks after I got back to Australia are you free to come to America? We're gonna get you a visa and all of this stuff so I was meant to go on the 20th of May for three and a half weeks and my visa hadn't come through and so I couldn't do the first leg of the tour and that was really another set back. It just and it wasn't anything to do with me. If you've ever looked at the visa website for the US it's like literally from the dark ages. It is purposefully terrible because they don't want people to come to the country. But anyway I would they were sorting it out and they were doing everything they could and it just didn't work. Yeah and that was tough because I'd said no to a different tour and like it's one of those things where you can't keep everyone on hold. No it just was what it was and I like yeah was just like okay yeah this is this is this I just have to Yeah I had a day where I was in bed and upset. Yeah and I was like I'm gonna really be upset today. Yeah because this is would have been so cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

But I'm still going but like yeah I was just like for a day and then I was like I think you got over it right you had that moment I think you do need a moment to mourn feel it you do otherwise like you just it catches up to you.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yeah yeah so what's the day in the life of being on tour when there's a performance on how does it so when does prep start depends on when you are like if you're traveling in that day or you've travelled the day before but sometimes if you're doing like back to back sh nights you'll try drive through the night to the next place. So sleep on the bus. Sleep on the bus. Yeah and the buses are like larks. Okay. Yeah you've got your own bed like it's small but oh you got a bed yeah yeah but it's like kind of fun. Yeah yeah I'm like okay that kind of sounds fun you can't poo on the bus. Okay. Yeah it's like rule number one don't poo on the bus. Plan your poos. Yeah you're gonna plan your poos or you're gonna go like okay we need to do a pit stop. But so you we get like a either a lobby call where someone will pick us up from the hotel and then drive us to the venue and that'll be more probably around two or three ish. And then you could have some lunch or dinner whatever and then you start glam and we would get like an hour and a half and she would have her hair and her makeup done at the same time. Okay. That's always fun. Yeah. Which is a lot but then she would go and do her own thing for a bit and then we'd come back just before she gets stressed, do final check. And that was a really good moment for me to put her lashes on or like do the final do the lip because she might have something to eat. Like and I think just once you get into that rhythm okay I'm gonna spend like my hour and a half doing the eyes and the base like these things and then when I get my half an hour later I'm gonna just finesse add those little extra bits. Yeah. And then yeah she'd go on stage and there were quick changes which were madness. Yeah. Because it's two minutes less. And you have to change her like powder redo the lip like do another lip like the hair like freshen up the lip make sure everything's looking like really good and then going on. But I feel like I got so good at making the base like bulletproof.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Okay. But before we talk about that was the look the same every night it I wanted to play with it and have fun.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Yeah and sometimes we would have the time and sometimes we wouldn't and like we there was the set look. She was like the brief was I want to look hot. Yeah and I was like we can do that. I'm like that is all I want to hear. I love when someone's like just make me look really hot and it's also stage makeup yeah yeah it's stage makeup so it's way more than what I would do for an everyday because there's more maybe a bit more intense contouring and highlighting because you want her to just from from beam beam yeah look really just like yeah gorgeous. Absolutely yeah was there a couple sets of lashes or just I was using lashify oh yeah we've spoken about oh my god best lashes ever yeah they sent me some and it was just like whoa the quality of them they're like Korean silk and they look like natural lashes but they're beautiful it's really beautiful. Can you buy them in Australia? I don't know I think you probably can find ways like through the internet yeah but they're very good quality okay yeah because and they are quite expensive actually yeah alright so tell us if you're happy to share where you made TikTok on it tell us the makeup and the longevity process. The base it's so much hot lights and movement. She's a fucking athlete like all the dancers they just are moving the whole time. So the one size does this secure the sweat primer metal tube. It is people don't like it because they put their skincare on and then they put it on and it doesn't really it peels. But you have to put your skincare on do the eye like let the skincare soak in and then put it on. What skincare are you putting on underneath? I do like a I love I just do like the Diabla then I put on usually the Charlotte Tilbury Magic serum and then I'll go in with Toucher moisturizer. Oh okay yeah dewy skin cream sometimes I'll maybe not do moisturizer depending on like how oily the skin is or maybe I've won with a serum or I'll see yeah yeah and I also like to do an eye cream oh yeah I love an eye cream yeah I think that that's I think an eye cream makes sense but I put eye cream on just before concealer like I'll because I'll do the eye and then I'll wipe it all off and then I'll put the eye cream on.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yeah otherwise I'm just okay so you've put your skincare on that soaked in you're doing the eyes the eyes are done yeah what are you what about base for eye oh I use the 24 hour eye base from MAC Mac.

SPEAKER_00 36:57

It's really good. Yeah again you've got to use a lot little little bit and just really work it in and then it gives like a perfect yeah what's her eye shape almond does she have a good eyelid she has a good eyelid yeah and then what else? Oh yeah and then I put the Security sweat primer and I just really press it in and it honestly nothing's moving. Really? It's such a performance that things still get shiny and all over the face? No I just do it in the T zone and then I use double wear do you use just straight double wear? And it's you don't mix it with anything? No. Yeah I just double wear concealers and then finish off the base set with the Huda beauty powder. Yeah love that one yeah and then Charlotte Tilbury setting spray and then the one size aerosol spray and it just like doesn't break apart doesn't really move because the first time I did her makeup I didn't do all of these steps and by the end of it it was she was like it had worn off. She looked still good but I'm obviously going to be more cr critical of my work and so when I got called back I was like oh okay it wasn't that was one of those ones where I was like I am a perfectionist and I want things to be amazing and I'm hard on myself and whatever but yeah it was okay and I think was it maybe I was listening to your podcast about with Kiana and it was like people don't know how good you are it's like if you're like 50% that's what I that's my theory anyway.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Yeah I really don't think people I think people know if they like you more than they know how good you are. That's my I wish I knew that earlier in life. Yeah it's true. It's yeah so they got you back even though so good.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

Yeah. And then yeah so I'm gonna going to go around Europe go to the UK again and Canada and then doing America in August.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 39:08

So that'll be like the next two months oh that's so good. Which is so awesome.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

I'm so excited for you.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Thank you yeah and what did you do on a lip do you long wearing things or I would do a long wear liner but it wouldn't really last. She likes a glossy lip I'll do a little stain like that.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

It doesn't last nothing really stays with the gloss does it?

SPEAKER_00 39:29

No breaks down like a little tint helps that helps but nothing crazy. And she preferences more moisturizing than so how does one pack for that clothing or like you just I yeah I just I didn't pack enough. Like it was really cold when we went and I was pretty freezing because also we're on the bus and so I had one pair of trackies and probably could have done with two and just things like that. It was definitely a bit tricky but I feel like now I know okay pack a little bit more for all seasons and like this time will be in summer we're going to Ireland so you kind of do have to pack quite a lot and then I condensed my kit a lot as well so that's a whole process. Are you used to taking a kit though for her? Yeah yeah yeah so I take out just the foundations that I'll use for her. Yeah two different types of formulas one's more of a long wear and one's more of a you know light finish. I know I'm not gonna do a full purple eye look and I'll take out my big colour palettes and stuff like that. Yeah even skin tone I'm like okay she's you know medium to light skin tones. I don't need all of the other colours. Do you have to wear wrap body? Yeah okay moisturizer or shine is the made by Mitchell glow product that they body glow product really nice.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

Oh really yeah makes the skin just look like radiant heaven amazing yeah really good awesome yeah and do you have a date so you are you either traveling or working it's not like you have days off or anything or yeah you get days off the travel you have a travel day I think this leg this next couple legs there's a a few days off.

SPEAKER_00 41:09

Okay. Yeah and you get to just it's awesome. I'm literally like I would have a bath if there was a bath in the hotel I'm like I'm having a bath and they feed you and they feed you and you get hotel breakfast and it's like every time I travel to Europe I'm staying in the shittiest Airbnb and now I'm in luxury and I'm going I could get used to this I'm made for this yeah I know I'm literally I'm like I'm made for it. Absolutely this suits me and the hairstylist is it the same hairstylist yeah she she had this great amazing hairstylist Clyde with us but she also uses Eduardo who I met the first time I did her hair. So yeah she So whoever it will be oh fun.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Yeah so you get a friend there right? Yeah exactly yeah and do you become close with the crew and stuff you get to know them.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

It's like working on a TV show I'm assuming yeah it's really nice I think there's there's different departments and everyone mingles and there's all the dances and then there's the wardrobe and you just you get to hang out and meet people and it's just really fun and yeah amazing. And we did a Nerf gun fight one night which was really silly and there was koalas when we were in Australia. They had koalas and like baby croc and stuff like that. It's just like cool fun things that were special and they did their end of tour dinner and it's really nice. Yeah and you get to just travel am I yeah this is heaven to me.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Yeah no it sounds amazing. Congratulations I can't wait to see what's next.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

But you were posting stuff when you were on tour yeah I started TikTok last year when I came back from my trip and I was like not working much. Okay. Let's talk about TikTok yeah because you're signed now yeah we know social media social media it's one day dream one day dream yeah cool yeah random I feel like I had always wanted to post videos but I was like so self-critical and I think that I was like always really hard on myself and I was like you're you talk funny or you look weird or you just your skin's this or like yeah whatever you can find right and then yeah my friend started doing it and I was like what am I why am I not doing this social media is such a tool it is such a great way to show someone who you are I also listen to a lot of podcasts about business and having a personal brand in this day and age is so important. It is yes and it's like people want to know who you are they get invested in you posting your work is one thing people like okay that's a pretty image but if you post a video of you doing the work you doing a recreation of the work people are going this is like really Helpful. Yeah. I'm actually learning something and I'm seeing you as the artist, not just the finished product. Because that's not interesting.

SPEAKER_01 44:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 44:09

It is, but it's not people want to connect, right? It's like other makeup artists might be like, oh, that's a cool look. Yeah. But the general population are more like interested in tech techniques or tips, or you're a pro at the end of the day. And that was something that I figured, I was like, oh my god, I'm starting to talk about how I do an eyeliner, and all of this information is coming out of me, and I'm like, oh, I really know this. Like you do. Yeah, I'm like, I actually know what I'm talking about because I've done this for years.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Yeah. I think your videos are really informative, and I feel like they're not like anyone else's. I feel like sometimes with tutorials, I feel like they can all be the same. But I feel like with you, you're not just doing it because, oh, it's trending to do a contour. You're like, this is how I do my contour, and it's different to how everyone else is doing theirs, and it actually makes more sense.

SPEAKER_02 45:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

And yeah, I don't know. I just think it's I I think it's good to be unique. I don't think I I don't think you need to be like everyone else. And I think your what you're showing is different and good.

SPEAKER_00 45:15

Yeah. I was there was one video that I did about contouring and it blew up, and I got like two million views and like 27,000 followers over the course of the month. It was insane. Like it just really happened, and I was like, and it was a funny video because I had it in my drafts being like, oh, my hair looks weird and I hate the t-shirt I'm wearing. And I didn't want to post it, and then I was like, Oh, I have nothing to post, so I posted it and it just blew up and I was like which one was it? It was just this one about the contouring and I was like, oh, I do some people do it like this, but I do it like this. And it was a great video. Yeah, and that's what I was talking about. Yeah, it just hit something. And someone said, I like your t-shirt. And someone said, It looks like a McDonald's shirt. And I'm like, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 45:57

People like brutal on TikTok.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

Oh, yeah, people. I'm like, who are these people commenting? But also thanks to engaging with my post. Yeah. Awesome. I posted something the other day and got rinsed in the comments, and I was like, okay, but it's funny. I'm like, wow. Yeah. People are really spending their time doing this. Like I love that. I'm like a secret hater. I'm like, okay, let me run to the comments and see if people are thinking the same thing. I'm going, okay, yeah, we all clocked it. Yeah. Gonna type it. Maybe that's what people are thinking about my videos.

SPEAKER_01 46:28

Your videos are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

But yeah, so I just was doing videos and I was again, I'm like a business person as well as a creative. Finances are really important. They're interesting. I'm like, I want to make money, I want to be successful, I want to be able to go on a holiday. I want to not worry. Yes. Yes. And I think that I was watching people do social media and I was like, they're making money, they're making good money, and I have things to share. I'm a professional. Let me teach you. Let me share my knowledge, and who knows what will happen in the future. And it's now led me to have an agency, and I think that's been exciting. I also felt scared to do that because I was like, is this gonna discredit me in my industry? Maybe to some people, but yeah, and I I'm like, get it, go, do it. Yeah, I think some people, I think in Australia there is a bit of that tall poppy syndrome of oh, she's doing that, so is she like she's not working enough? But and I'm like, honestly, you're right, I'm not working enough. So I'm trying to figure out how to make it work. Like, how am I going to make this a sustainable career? And I love to talk and I love to share and I love to like perform, and I'm like, this is all hitting all of those boxes, and I get to do makeup, and who knows what will happen. And it was really cool with my agent. She reached out, and I hadn't really been posting that much, and my engagement wasn't great, but there was I think she just saw something in what I was doing, was like, You are good. Yeah, like she was like, I really I think you're very good.

SPEAKER_01 47:59

I think this is something. I think I saw you. When did I see you? When did I see you on that job? And because I've been watching your videos, and I think I'm always commenting something. I knew that you were gonna it was gonna take off, and then I saw you, and you're like, Yep, I just I'm gonna get those brand deals, and next thing I know, you're I mean I haven't had one yet, but Oh, it's coming. It's coming, it's coming. You'll know. Yeah. Have you had any brands or had you had any brands reach out online?

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yeah, a couple, but it was just more as like sending PR and stuff like that. I think it's still early stages, but yeah, I know where I'm going. Oh yeah. I know where I'm heading, I know what I'm gonna do. I want to have my own brand. I want to be a founder, I want to do all of these things, and I'm gonna do them. And it'll take time, but that's where I'm going. And I think right now I'm in like creation like foundation stages. I'm building confidence or like a voice, and then I'm gonna hopefully channel that.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

I feel like you got momentum quick. Like I feel like it's happening, like I don't know if it's would I say it's super fast or anything, but I feel like you've got a lot of momentum behind you and it's moving, and I think that's really important. Not that I have a clue, no, but just from an outsider looking in, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

My agent was like, you need to post like you should I would recommend you just your read like the TikToks on your Instagram. Oh yeah. And I was a bit like, yeah, but my Instagram's like my professional portfolio. She was like, brands tend to look to Instagram first over TikTok. Because Instagram is TikTok's like very easy and your content doesn't go out to your followers as much. 90% 97% of my views or something like that are from non-followers. Oh, because it pushes it out so it pushes it so whereas Instagram is a little bit more pushes it out to your page. Yeah, yeah. But I've been posting that and it's interesting because I've grown a lot in the past like month or so. I think I've gained a couple a thousand or fifteen hundred and it's been growing.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

I had a reel that I've been trying, I've been like, I'm really on my Instagram for my podcast. Yeah, it's awesome. And I have been posting a lot. And I was actually gonna even do a just a podcast episode on it because I have had a reel that has just it hasn't got millions of views, but it's gone off for me. Like I've got hundreds, maybe it's 150,000 views. That's heaps, yeah. But I've gotten over a thousand followers in one week. Yeah. I was at 2,000. Now I'm at over 3,000. Do you know how long it's taken me? I get 2,000, and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I just have you just have to be consistent and evolving. Yeah. You just have to be consistent and and the real that's done this. This is the third time I've posted it. Yeah. I just keep editing it differently. I make it shorter, I make it, I put some different text on screen, and I'm like, I feel like I've finally I'm getting it. Yeah. And it doesn't feel as hard. But this has been six months, I think. Six months of being consistent and just doing it, just showing up. And it's really interesting because some things will do better on, and I've had another real doing okay over on TikTok where people are way more brutal about what they say. But it's a different, it's a different yeah. So what will do good on TikTok or what will do good on Insta is completely different, but yeah, it blows my mind. I was I had my friend, she would wake up in the morning and she'd send me a screenshot of my page. She said, I told you you'd get to 3,000 by the morning. And I was like, How did you even know that? Because I didn't even think that. And it was just really sweet.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

It's so cute because I think we're in a world where it does matter. Yeah, it does, and I think it's just growing and becoming more known and like pushing out your work. And I one thing I will say about TikTok though is people don't care who you are. And I think that was something that I realized because I would post videos about get ready with me, and people are like, I don't give a fuck. Who are you? Yeah, listen. Who are you? Okay, get ready with you. I don't care. Babe, you're just a random girly. But if I'm going, hey, I'm a makeup artist with this many years' experience and I'm gonna teach you something, they're going, wait, huh? Okay. Now I'm listening. Now I'm listening. Oh, you have something to offer me? Yeah. Okay, I want to take that. I think you gotta offer something.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

But I think that was been a huge realization to me in this in makeup, in this world. Everything is an exchange. Yeah. And if you're not giving something in the exchange or you're not gonna get something out of the exchange, then you really have to think about if you want to do it, right? And I used to really struggle with that because I used to think it was just too transactional. I used to think it wasn't coming from a a good place. But when I realized that, it's actually made life so much easier. Yeah, it's an exchange. Yeah, are you happy with what you're gonna get? Great, do it. If you're not, don't do it. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 52:56

And I just yeah, I feel like it makes life a lot easier. Yeah, you kind of just have to be okay with that. And like, and I also think, especially when you're growing an audience, like people don't care now, but maybe in a little bit they will, and they'll be like, Oh, tell us about this stuff and be more personal. And if you want to share, you can. Starting your page off of sharing personal, I don't know. I there's a lot of people out there doing that, and I think it's how are you gonna set yourself apart and yeah. Or how personal do you get? Totally, and I think that's up to you. And everyone's different. Yeah, I don't really share personal stuff. Yeah, I'm also like, is it that interesting? Probably would be to people. Maybe to some people. I'm noisy.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Yeah, so noisy, yeah. Not saying you are I am. No, yeah, I love that. I'm like, oh, let me know a little bit more about what you're doing. Are you feeling in natural light? I have a light panel. Are you in a window though? I'm in a window. So nothing beats natural light with a assisted light, I think.

SPEAKER_00 54:00

Also, I think I'd moved into this room with big natural windows and a desk, and I had this set up for the first time in forever, ever, actually. And I was like, oh, now I can film, and you know, like that barrier to entry of not having a desk to film at. But I think that part partially that is was a little bit of an excuse for me because I did live in that room for six months before I was like, okay, yeah. But I know what you're saying. We can find excuses in anything. Yeah, yeah. Do you use a mic? I can't remember if I'm not. No, I don't use a mic, but I think I should because I live in a flight path. Okay. And it's every five minutes, it's insane. Yeah. And I didn't even I knew the flights were happening, but it was hard because once I started filming, I was so aware of the flight, the plane going over, that I couldn't sleep at night, or I'd be woken up really early, and it took my body a little bit to adjust to being like, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

How long have you lived in that area?

SPEAKER_00 54:58

I've lived there for a year and a half now.

SPEAKER_01 54:59

Because I I'm in Stanmore. You're in Stanmore. So I was in Ashfield and then I was in Abbotsford. And when I first moved to Sydney, all I could hear was blades. I know. I was like, how do people live like this? Yeah, it's crazy. I don't know if I'm in a flight path now, actually, but where are you? I'm in Strathfield. Uh yeah, I don't. I think I'm out of the flights. But you do notice them a lot when you first move. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 55:28

And what are you editing? I just film and edit on the TikTok app. I've done a video where I was like trying to be like following the trend and doing the like little sound things and and then I was like, this isn't me. I'm just gonna film, and I have ten minutes of filming time. Yeah. And I stop it and I start it. And if I my videos are never longer than ten minutes. Like I edit it down. Yeah. And I also don't want to film in a different way. I'm like, I'm happy to do it like this. Yeah, that's what you do. Yeah. And I'm this works for me. And it makes it easy for me to like not feel stressed about it. Because if I'm trying to be too perfect and like do all of those.

SPEAKER_01 56:07

Your reels are really engaging. I want to watch to the end. Thanks. Yeah. I love your reels. I'm probably one of your biggest fans. So thank you. Keep going. Keep going.

SPEAKER_00 56:15

Thank you. Yeah, it's funny. People say to come up to me and say, Oh, I like your videos. And I'm like, This is so crazy. Like, it's right. It's so nice, but I'm just like in my room and then I'm forgetting that people are actually watching it. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, totally. Thanks. Hi.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

Like, cool. And have you started so you've brands have been sending you things and things like that?

SPEAKER_00 56:38

I'm just enjoying like having something to do on times when I'm slow at work. Yeah. And being like, okay, I'm working towards something bigger. Yeah. And people like Katie Jane Hughes or Alexandra French, like they are two people, two makeup artists that do like really great videos and they're really great at giving information. Yeah. And like you learn and it doesn't take away from their artistry. No. And I think that yeah, I was a bit worried about that. Katie tours with Jualipa, right? Yeah. And I don't know what else she does. She likes has her own brand. And I'm like, she's literally I'm going, wow.

SPEAKER_01 57:18

Yeah. That's so awesome. Do you know the one thing that was like really a big wake up to me was that I just realized people got online and they talked about stuff consistently and people thought they were like they became an expert. Yeah. I was like, you're mad to not give it a shot. Yeah. You are an expert.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

Exactly. And no one knows. Like, no. But I think there's that, am I being an imposter? Like you got the imposter syndrome of it all, and it's like, yeah. Oh, am I really like the person to be sharing this with you?

SPEAKER_01 57:49

You definitely are. But it's like I feel like imposter syndrome. I've really experienced a lot of imposter syndrome. I don't think I've experienced it in a while. I feel like I'm just, I've had it so much that I'm like, oh, I'm done with you. That's good. Yeah, I just I think I had a lot when I started the podcast. But having this podcast has actually really desensitized me to so many things. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 58:12

I think you're this is such a great format, and it's so interesting. And yeah, that barrier to entry of the makeup industry, which is like no one knows anything and no one shares anything, and it's like yeah, okay, like I just gotta figure it out myself. The podcast like this, what a great resource.

SPEAKER_01 58:30

Like absolutely and it came from my own struggles. Like there was nothing, yeah. And I am real I am genuinely very interested in talking to people. I love people's stories, and I've thought about like how else I could do this, but I don't I really do I like to find out. Like for me, just finding out your story now. I'm like, oh it's so good, yeah. It's so exciting.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Yeah, no, I like to keep it you get the real side of things, right? Absolutely. That's like really refreshing.

SPEAKER_01 59:01

Yeah, yeah, so important.

SPEAKER_00 59:02

Yeah, career highlights. I think honestly, this tour has been such a highlight. I've felt a little bit of that imposter syndrome. I'm like, why me? And then I was like, I actually am really good. Yeah, I'm actually really good at this and I'm doing really well, and I deserve it. At this point, I've been doing this for a really long time, and I this is so nice to be seen as the person that you know, so they're like, Oh, you're really good, and we want to make you like, and we know that I don't know, they almost knew it before me, yeah, in a sense, and I think yeah, I think just becoming more sure of myself has been like a really big career highlight from this tour. I think just honestly working for myself, it's like that's the career highlight. Like being busy, right? Being booked or not. Being booked and busy and like just working being my own boss, like that is the career highlight. Like, I think it's so cool. It's always say, do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life. Yeah. And I'm working, yeah, lots of days, but but you don't wake up and not want to go to work. You just no, when I wake up, I'm like, yes, I've been booked for some years. Yeah, I don't. I'm like, I'm so happy to be here. Oh god, catering and like, oh, it's yeah, nice. And even I'm washing my brushes, I'm like, oh, I have brushes to walk. Anytime I'm working, I'm like, fuck yeah, except if it's a location. Not happy then.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

Oh my gosh, I'm at night shoot. Not happy. I had a night shoot on Friday, just gone. Start at 4 30 till 11:30. 4 30 is almost a late night for me. I know it was fine though, it's good, but my gosh, I was so wrecked the next day.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

I also feel like I spend the days leading up being like like dreading it. Or early morning call. I had like a 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

call not that long ago, and I was like, Well, that's even worse than a night show, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:49

Yeah, but they had a lenty catering and I was like, Oh, okay. You know what? I'm actually okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:55

Yeah, that's good catering. Have you ever wanted to explore the creative agency kind of path? Are you happy just to self-represent?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

I have looked into that and I think that it just didn't align. Yeah. I've had a couple of almost, yeah, and it hasn't aligned. And I think that like I do think that I'm like, you gotta see the vision. I want my agent to be like, fuck, yeah. Like I see it for you. And I think I don't know, because my agent that I have right now handles like partnerships, not my makeup booking, so it's completely separate. So I don't know if now an agency would how they would feel about the double up or what if that even is possible. But right now I'm good. You're happy with that. You know, I'm happy where I'm at. Yeah. Also, it costs a lot to have an agent. And if I'm getting if they're taking 20%, I need to be making I need to be working 25% more. Yes. Even 21% more for it to be worth it. Yeah. And who knows? Because I ha was assigned to an agency and it didn't work out. And it was like, yeah, they didn't do anything and they took my money. Oh, I see. Yeah. And yeah. No, I get it. Anyway, and I was just like, oh, this is not worth it. Yeah. And I can send an email and I have I use Henry, shout out Henry. You want to be my that's a good brand deal.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:20

Yeah, Henry!

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

Henry, I love you. I think I've seen you shout out Henry before. What is Henry? Tell us. But it's changed my life. And it also saved me a lot of time in terms of doing taxes. Yeah, and so invoicing and all of that stuff, now I'm telling you. But oh no, I think there's more to Henry than what you're telling. But it streamlined that. So I'm like, if my agent, if I'm getting my own clients and my agent's doing the invoicing, I'm like, it takes me two seconds to do that. Yeah. And they take one percent of what you earned. It's like the how it cut like the cost of it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:51

Yeah. Which I'm like, oh, that's how it pays. Yeah. Whereas I use zero, which is different to Henry. How does that work? So it's just an accounting software, and I invoice and it's connected to my bank accounts and like all my expenses. But it's I think Henry takes out your super and things like that as well. It's a little bit more intuitive, might be the right word. Whereas I still do my own Bass and things like that. Oh, yeah. It's actually. I suppose that's good if it's taking 1% because then it's only taking from what you're earning. And it's up to $1,500.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:24

If you make over $150k, which I would love to. One day. You don't pay more than that. And it's also like I have to track everything and all my expenses, and it you can it just streamlines everything and it makes it super easy. Yeah. And for me, I'm like, that has saved me so much mental work that I think it's really good. The mental load of it. The mental load of it. Also coming into a new financial year, I would be I would switch if I was you to me. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe I should have a look at it. Yeah. Do you want to do the affiliate code? That was the thing. Okay, so I posted about it a year or two ago, and I was like, you guys have to do it. And then I went on the app and I saw that I could share a code, and then I was like, I literally didn't know this, but it's gonna seem like I'm lying. But if you use my code, you get 50 bucks or 20 bucks. Yeah. And like show notes for you. It's it's the code that you share with people, and like you get some money. It's great. Go wrong. Go for it, but also you can do it without it, but we both get some money. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:26

Yeah. Yeah, I love that app. Okay, I'm gonna have to look into it. Yeah, definitely.

unknown 1:04:30

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Do you do private clients or anything? Yep. Yeah, you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:34

Yeah, I do private clients. I don't I do some it's on and off. Yeah. I'm not always doing private clients, but I won't say no. I don't think I really advertise it, but if people ask, yeah, yeah, I do that. I love doing private clients. I look the little jobs here and there. It's great. I'm like, I love having my day and having one little thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:54

I love a private client. I did two yesterday. So good. And I do hair too. So if you can do even I'd do two private clients a day and I'd be happy, right? Like that would be just the dream.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:07

A lot of the time they come to me too. Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:09

Which is really good. Yes. Because I just have my little setup. Do you have a little setup? That's good. I've got horrific lighting in my house, so and I don't really want people to come to my house. I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

No, I get that. I didn't want that. And then I have a room with my desk and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Do you still do much testing?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:29

Test shooting?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Yes. Yeah? Yeah. I still test. I love to test. I think it's a really great way to express yourself and be creative and try something new. Work with new people, work with new faces. Yeah, get content, portfolio stuff. Like I most of the things that I post in terms of images on my Instagram are from test shoots.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

Yeah, I can't.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:50

Because sometimes with a client, like you don't have the control. I don't have the control. Also, most of the time what they're asking for me is not something that I'm like dying to advertise. If it's that No makeup thing, and I'm like, okay, I can do that, but I think I'm I think I've become really directional in which way I want my career to go, and I do want to step into the celebrity. Yeah. And that aligns especially with working with I really want to work with beauty brands and I think that to me is really interesting. And I think that doing like campaigns and working for fashion houses like or brands, it's something that I can do, but it's not necessarily what I want to do. I think that I was trying to chase that for a while, and now I've realized, oh, that's not me.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:31

But then sometimes you realize too that there's another avenue. Because I think for me, I'm going, I'm he feel like I'm heading more the way you just mentioned.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:40

And it's a small industry and there's only so many brands, and like I've sent out hundreds of cold emails to every single brand. Yes. Ever oh my god, I have done it. Yeah. I've like sent so many emails.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:56

Yeah, I hear you, babe.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

And sometimes you get a hit, sometimes you don't, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:00

I think I just feel like no one really wants to work with you until they've met you. Or someone else has recommended you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:08

And yeah, so I've just got to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:10

Yeah, I do think in Australia they they are not as willing to take a chance. Whereas in America, I know my friends have said, oh, they'll just be like, okay. You send an email, they'll be like, okay.

unknown 1:07:21

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

Not always, obviously, but like obviously they need to like your work or a line of people. But if they see your work and they think it's good, they'll go, oh, okay. Try someone new. Yeah. It's a little bit more flex. I don't know, but I've heard different things. Again, maybe it's like the grass is greener. Yeah. But I actually, yeah, I think it's all you don't really know until until you're in the situation. Yeah. Are you a kit condenser? I do my best. Yeah. But I'm type B. Okay. I'm not a. I wish I had the gorgeous, immaculate, all artist kit coat. Yeah, Kiana's kit is everyone's wet dream. I'm like, Jesus, that is so hot. I'm like, okay, wow. It really is. I'm like, how do you do that? And it always looks so perfect. Yeah. I'm just like, I also like when I do makeup, it's a fucking mess by the end of it. Yeah. I get so overstimulated by my kit. Like when I have to pack up, I'm like, I know I do not know where to start. I'm like, this is just especially doing a test shoot, and we're doing like all the colours, all the different things, and it's like, now my kit's fucked.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:29

I know. And then it's the pat you look at it all and you're like, I don't understand how that all fits.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:33

But yeah, I do condense my kit, but I think once we're going into the depressing eyeshadows, I'm like, no, that's just not gonna be my bag.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Like, yeah, that's but I've depotted eyeshadows before and put them in other palettes, and I just that to me, they just they looked it looked like a five-year-old's makeup kit. I'd buy it. So now I keep eyeshadows in their palettes. Yeah. Because And how many eyeshadows do you use? Yeah. Do you use a lot of eyeshadow?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:03

Um yes and no. Like I think that I definitely I feel like it's funny with my kit. I like eyeliners or like films or like pencils and like colours from that printing. Yeah. But eyeshadows, you just need a good colour palette. There's one from Beauty Bay and it's like oh that one, yeah. Colour palette. It's for every colour. Yeah. Great. I'm covered for life. Yeah. For that one job a year. Yeah. I tried to depot it and I fucked it. Oh, did you? It's not magnetic on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:32

I do like your blush today, actually. Thank you. It's good cheer. Is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:36

It's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

It's really good.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:38

It's such a nice peach.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Yeah, it's very nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:41

I'm loving the blush. Yeah. Been painted by Esther, like trying out her technique, and I'm like, oh, okay, this is fun. Yeah, no, it suits you.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

I like peach. Thank you. I want to talk some cute favourites. Yeah. But I really want to know what your go-to foundation is.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:01

For a long time it's been Shoshido Synchro Skin. I love that foundation. But now I think I've got some new ones coming in. I love the Natasha Denona High Glam foundation. I think that's a beautiful formula. And Makeup Forever is coming out or has just come out with their new updated formula of the HD skin. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:25

I've s I heard someone, I think must have been on TikTok, they said it's great on everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

It is. And it's I went to a uh sort of like event with them and they've tested it like 400 times, and like all these makeup artists like have a say in it. So it's like a makeup artist brand. I love makeup forever. People always are like, oh, what would you only use? And I'm like, makeup forever, they've got it all. Like they have everything. And I think that like I could easily okay with just their products in my kit. Yeah. They do have everything. Yeah. And they're really good quality. And like so you tried that foundation. Yeah. What's the finish? It's like natural, like natural finish. Okay. Maybe like slightly more matte, but not like super matte.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:09

Like I think I'd prefer a slightly more matte because then you can always add the glosses, add more hair or you know, different things.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:17

But yeah, so those are my that's not one.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:20

I think that was good. That was a I knew you loved the synchro skin. Yeah. And concealer? What about concealer?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:27

I always use NARS soft matte. I love soft mat. I think it's so good. Such a good one. But I also like the Huda concealers. Oh, I haven't tried that. I like the liquid one. Yeah. Huda or House Labs, I'm liking. Yeah. But the applicator's dog shit. Yeah. The foot came off of one of mine. Because it's huge. Like it's this huge paddle, and then like it doesn't fit through that little hole and it's like okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Yeah, I do. I used that bit of that the other yesterday. It is actually a little bit hard to get in and out. Yeah. And mascara.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:59

Always tubing. Which one? I use the MCO for a bit. I like the Merit one. Yeah, I used to like the Merit one. It's quite fine. Yeah, it's fine. I just got Revlon is doing a new one. Yeah, I just got that in PR. And it's a little bit more chunky.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:16

What have you got on now?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

I've got a mix of the Merit and the Revlon. Okay. Yeah. So Merit.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:22

So you have to use tubing you transfer. Does that you curl? Is that your natural curl or you could? I did get a uh lash lift. Oh, okay. And yeah, it's kind of growing out. You've got good lashes. Thank you. Thanks. But yeah, always tubing. Half magic one's quite good too, I thought. But yeah, tubing, they're coming a long way. Oh. Yeah. Alright, tell us. I've given every UR thing. Five kit favorites.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:45

Five kit favorites. Okay, number one, always Elizabeth Ardenay. Okay. This is so good. I put it on. I always love it at the end of a glam. Yeah. Just really lightly on the cheeks. I talk about it on my TikTok, but it just brings the skin back to life. I also love it as a lip product. I love it as cuticle, whatever, just for dry dryness. Yeah. It's really beautiful. It has a very distinct smell, and people are like, oh my god, my mum wore this, or like it's kind of nostalgic, but it has a really great finish. Yeah, it's nice. Yeah, I just love it. I think it works for if you're doing glam, if you're doing no makeup, it's just a good product.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:27

I mean, you can always use it if someone needs a really hydrating moisturizer afterwards. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Super lip. It has got a distinct smell, hasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:36

Then we've got another lip product, but I feel like as a makeup artist, this is the one, homeoplasmic.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:43

Mine's a different colour.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

And it's a matte lip balm. So it's hydrating, but it is matte, so you don't get that shine. It's great for male grooms. It's great for again natural makeup looks. It just is a really great product. It's really good for prepping the lips. Did you end up buying it here through that site? I'm pretty sure I sent my partner to get it when they were in Italy. I was like, can you get this? Because I nearly out of money. It lasts forever. You only need a little bit. It's a huge tube. It's great. Love that. Okay. Then I have my Huda powder. Ah, you mentioned that earlier. I just think this one is so smoothing and great. And you can use it for baking, you can use it for setting. And I remember I was working on the voice, and one of my friends had it, and my makeup applications were looking incredible. This powder is witchcraft. It's so gorgeous.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:40

I'm gonna have to get it, I think, because I have heard a lot about it. Yeah. It's really fine. Super fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:46

Is this is there many colours? Yeah, there's heaps of colours. But yeah, I got I have the pink and then that one, and I have a banana one. Like what's this? Is this just a I can't see a colour?

SPEAKER_01 1:14:59

Oh my gosh, it's the hugest writing there. It's called banana bread.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

Yeah, the banana bread. Oh, that's a good colour. Yeah, really good colour. Is it do you use that one on you? I can't, yeah, I can use that one on me. But I like I have a cherry blossom one and it's really nice. It's pink.

unknown 1:15:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

That's good. Yeah, I like that. But yeah. Then I've got the Charlotte Tilbury setting spray. Just it does the trick. It's really good. And it's also nice and hydrating in a way.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:27

It's not drying like those aerosol ones.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

Yeah. But I like to layer them a little bit. But yeah, the the aerosol ones are drying. So you do this one first? I do that one throughout. So I'll do I'll do my creams and then I'll spray it. And then I'll do my powders and then I'll spray it. And then I'll, you know, okay. Do a few layers of stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:50

So you'll set with your hooter. Do you use a sponge? Do you use a puff for it? I use a puff, yeah. And then would you spray this?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:57

I'll yeah, once I have brushed away the excess, I'll spray it. Okay, and then you use your final one at the end. I love that. And then Mecca zoom sticks, these are just the best. They they're really smudge-proof, long wearing, they make life just so easy. If you've got 10 minutes to do a glam, you can do uh an eye that looks really good and it just stays. You just set it with a bit of powder. Yeah, yeah. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:25

They have so many colours now.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:27

So many colours, they have different finishes too, but I just have mainly just the matte ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:31

Yeah. Yeah, they've got I had a few, but I actually lost them all.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

Oh, I lost my entire eyeliner and lip liner that bag one.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:40

Yeah, I was like, that's what happened to me. I still I still hoping it's gonna show up. Yeah. It's all these extra colours, like extras. I've got no idea where it is. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:50

I lose things all the time. Do you? Yeah. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

I just lost it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:58

Next. I can't get mad. No, because I just do it too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:01

I'd be like upset every time. All the time. Yeah. Any pieces of advice that you would give to the audience who look up to you and maybe they want to get into the whole TikTok thing, maybe they want to work with celebrities. What do you wish someone told you?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:20

Like, really just believe in yourself and like keep going. Like just keep showing up. Yeah, exactly. And it's just like brick by brick. And you're building it over time, and it's not always gonna happen straight away. And I think age is a big part of I remember being when you're young and you're green and you're not being a bit older, I'm like, it's been really helpful. And I love getting older. I'm like, I was not born to be a kid, I was born to be an adult. And I think that I've always been so impatient. I'm like, Yes. And I think it's just patience and like trusting the process and like everything's gonna work out the make the way it's meant to, and that's a really shit thing to hear when you're having a tough time. But it just will. It's a bad day.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

What a bad life.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:10

Yeah, love that. Yeah, so I don't know, just keep going. Yeah and great advice. You'll find your groove. Don't stop. Yeah. Keep going. And there's a place for everyone.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:23

Thanks for joining me today on the Makeup Insider. I hope you've enjoyed the show. Please don't forget to rate and subscribe, and I'll see you soon. Bye for now.