
The 4PM Podcast
Transforming 4PM through: Integration to Deliver Value!
The 4PM Podcast is the newest platform in the UrukPM Outreach Trio.
The outreach trio includes the Applied Project Management YouTube Channel, the Applied Project Management Blog Site, and the 4PM Podcast. We will use these three platforms in an integrated way to provide maximum flexibility and benefits to our community.
In these podcast episodes, we will discuss various topics related to 4PM. In this context, 4PM refers to project, program, product, and portfolio management.
Our topics include various educational content such as case studies, books, practical tips, the latest trends, the pioneering Uruk Platform, and future interviews with respected project management experts and thought leaders.
Do you have topics or questions that you would like us to discuss? Please share!
The 4PM Podcast
Is the project management division different from a project management office?
In this episode of the 4PM Podcast, host Mounir Ajam tackles a common yet often misunderstood question: What’s the difference between a Project Management Office (PMO) and a Project Management Division (PMD)?
While PMOs vary widely in scope—from departmental support units to enterprise-level oversight—most fall short of treating project management as a strategic, enterprise-wide function. A PMD, on the other hand, represents a paradigm shift: it is institutionalized at the board level, permanent, and central to governance.
Mounir breaks down the different types of PMOs, offers a practical exercise to help you spot gaps in your own organization, and highlights why a PMD isn’t just an “upgraded PMO” but a redefined approach to project management. If you’re curious about the future of project governance, this episode will give you the clarity you need.
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Welcome to the 4 pm podcast, where ideas take shape and strategies find purpose. I am Mounir Ajam, founder and CEO of Rook Project Management, and I have a deep-seated passion for project management and community development, growing on decades of global experience across diverse industries and roles. I am here to guide you through the transformative power of the 4PMs project program, product and portfolio management and our focus on business integrated project management. Let's explore how integration unlocks unparalleled value for you and your organization. Talks unparalleled value for you and your organization. Good day, Welcome back to the 4 pm podcast. I am Munir Ajam, your host. Thank you for joining me today.
Speaker 1:In this episode, we'll tackle a question that often comes up Is a project management division really different from a project management office? At first glance, they may sound the same, but their scope and impact can be very different. We'll break down the key differences and share a simple exercise to help you spot gaps in your own organization. Spot gaps in your own organization. Introduction when we discuss the need for a project management division, pmd, it may appear similar to a project management office PMO. If it is, it would be a rare case where a PMO is formally recognized as a core organizational function and division, but for some reason or another it is still called a PMO. However, in most cases this is different from a PMO and, depending on the type of PMO, the difference could be massive could be massive. To date, I am unaware of any PMO that fully aligns with the vision in the book's vision realized and successful transformation. Most PMOs cover only part of this vision. Part one different type of PMOs.
Speaker 1:Project management professionals know there are various types of PMOs. Some might have a mandate limited to offering passive support, others could provide some direction and others could be responsible for the project management system. Similarly, some PMOs might be limited to a department or business unit, while others would be enterprise level, with support or oversight of the entire function. Further, some view the PMO as a temporary unit, while others see it as a permanent organization unit, even a department. Unfortunately, that leads us to too many different types, inconsistencies and, as a result, non-optimal performance. For example, a PMO within a department departmental PMO is only responsible for projects within that department. Often it is IT. A corporate or enterprise PMO might be involved in decisions about project and it is also possible that these PMOs might be involved with strategy formulation or portfolio management. However, these PMOs will not be involved in project delivery. Some PMOs might implement the organizational project management system, but many do not. Some PMOs might be responsible for project delivery, but this is not true for most PMOs. In some organizations, multiple PMOs operate independently, each with a different mandate. This fragmentation can dilute synergies, create inconsistencies and hinder enterprise-wide alignment.
Speaker 1:Part two exercise for organizations. Let's do a quick exercise. This one's super helpful If your organization already has a PMO. Grab a pen or open a notes app. First, list everything your PMO does today all the reports, support tasks, compliance, delivery, strategy, whatever it touches. Then imagine what a full project management division looks like a body that handled governance, change management, resource management, project delivery, learning from past work, etc. Now compare. You'll probably spot some gaps. Maybe your PMO handled reporting and compliance, but not much delivery. Or perhaps strategy gets talked about but resource management and lessons learned are weak. That's totally normal. According to project pros sharing their experience online, these aren't theoretical. They're emerging from workaday realities in organizations around the world. The value comes when you see the gaps. Then you can decide do we enhance our PMO or move toward forming a full PMD? Part three the critical difference, perhaps the most important distinction. Part 3. The Critical Difference.
Speaker 1:Perhaps the most important distinction between a PMO and a PMD lies in their governance and permanence. A PMO can often be created or dissolved at the discretion of a single executive. Leadership changes or shifting priorities frequently lead to the dismantling of PMOS. In contrast, a project management division is established at the board level and integrated into the organization's governance structure and hierarchy. As such, dismantling a PMD is not simple. It requires significant organizational decisions and justifications. Let me share a brief story to illustrate this. During one executive meeting, the vice president of project management expressed deep frustration with the performance of the cost estimating unit. He was ready to dismantle the group and outsource the function, but he couldn't Because the unit was institutionalized within the governance structure. He had to focus on solving the internal challenges rather than eliminating the team altogether.
Speaker 1:In closing, a project management division is not just an upgraded PMO. It represents a complete paradigm shift. It breaks out of the PMO box by treating project management as a strategic, enterprise-wide function, without discarding the valuable foundation that PMOS can offer. This is the future of modern project management governance. Are you ready to make the shift? Do you want to learn about implementing a project management division? Consider this executive-level workshop urukpmcom slash learning and development. Slash building the project management function division slash. If this episode helped shift your perspective, I invite you to subscribe, leave a review and share it with your teams. For more episodes, tools and templates, visit urukpmcom or connect with me directly on LinkedIn. This is Munir Ajam for the 4PM Podcast. Until next time, keep learning, keep leading and always deliver with purpose.