Angie Colee (00:00):
Angie Colee (00:03):
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs, helming nine figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Colee, and let's get to it. And welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass
Angie Colee (00:34):
With me today is my new friend, Kevin Palmieri. Say hi.
Kevin Palmieri (00:37):
Hello. How are you? Thank you so much for having me.
Angie Colee (00:40):
I'm doing great. I'm trying not to bake alive in the South Texas Heat. We're recording this in August, and it's, it's hot. It's hot . So tell us a little bit about your business.
Kevin Palmieri (00:50):
Yeah, so we have many different things within our business, but at the end of the day, we are a podcast who wants to add value to our community and the community members who want more value pay for one-on-one coaching, group coaching, and many other things like that.
Angie Colee (01:07):
Excellent, excellent. And how did you stumble into that
Kevin Palmieri (01:09):
? I was actually interviewed on a YouTube channel, and after the interview I said to one of my friends, I said, imagine if you could do that for a living. That hour and a half went by in what feels like five minutes. Yeah. If I could do that, my life would be complete. And he said, there are people out there that do that. So I went home, I went on YouTube University, I went on Amazon, and I ordered everything I needed to create a podcast. It, it came from a place of curiosity and a place of fulfillment, and it has evolved in many, many, many different ways where 1,430 episodes in. So a lot has, A lot has happened, but it started from curiosity, it started from fulfillment and wanting to add value to people from a genuine place.
Angie Colee (01:55):
Mm-hmm. . Well, now I feel kind of silly because this is one of those few instances where, uh, my philosophy about conducting this as a conversation at the bar kind of backfires because I took you through this whole, like, set up to prepare you for the podcast, and you've done 10 times more episodes than , so you're like, yep, yep. I know. It's cool. Well,
Kevin Palmieri (02:16):
But that's important. That's important. I, I, I may be further along than some people, but I've made all the mistakes that you, you've made you will make, maybe you won't make. So mm-hmm. , I want to hear, I want to hear your process. 'cause your process might be different than ours.
Angie Colee (02:30):
Yeah. I think it's great when we can open ourselves up to learn from each other and not get baked into the own the processes that we've set up. Just because there have, right? Yes. Yes. Um, I pitched to talk to Alex and Philipo of Pod Match about that mm-hmm. , like how to create a better host process. So it's interesting to me, and, you know, it's, it's funny to me how so many of us come to podcasting. I think you're the first, uh, like professional podcaster, somebody that's not doing it as part of a different business model that I've met. And yours was about curiosity and fun and oh my gosh, that time flew by. What if I could make a living about that? I came to podcasting out of pure resistance . I was on stage, uh, critiquing copy, uh, at a marketing conference.
Angie Colee (03:15):
And I had somebody come to me at the back table, and they found me in the chaos, dark ballroom, loud music, people dancing on chairs and hugging each other. It was, it was chaos. Hmm. They find me in the dark and they tell me, you have a great voice. You should have a podcast. Do you have one? I'd love to listen. And I was like, what? Are you smoking ? I hear, I hear myself, do you hear me? My voice is weird. Doesn't sound like other podcasters, . But then I heard it again at the next conference and again, at the next conference, and then I started to put together like, oh, that's, that's three people who don't have anything to gain from telling me that, who said the same. Like, there's a universal pattern that's popping up here. And when I started thinking about it, like I'm, I'm a marketer, that's my background. So many people talk about the different ways that you can get your name out there. Right. Be visible. Podcasting is one of them. Albeit it's technically complicated. It can be like video production. And man, I love talking , man talking comes easy to me. , I imagine it was the same thing for you, huh?
Kevin Palmieri (04:20):
Less than you think. I am a natural introvert being on camera at this point. I don't know. I don't know. Thousands and thousands and thousands of hours. I am numb to it now, and I'm used to it. But when I get to the end of a long day, I recluse. I like to sit in the dark and I don't wanna have conversations with anybody. So I do enjoy speaking, but it probably isn't as natural to me as you might guess at this stage.
Angie Colee (04:45):
That's an interesting thought, because, you know, over the years I've developed my podcast process and we're always just refining it. But I've discovered the same thing. I love to talk, I love relationships. I'm definitely the super connector in my group of friends. And also when I do these podcast recordings, which I batch record in a day, several episodes, I have literally designed my life version recording . So like Wednesday is the day I don't do anything but talk to people for recordings. Mm-hmm. , I don't even cook dinner on Wednesdays. I don't even go to the gym on Wednesdays. Like the workout plan that I picked is literally Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. 'cause after I get done with the final recording today, I'm gonna write up my notes from all these conversations, and then I'm just gonna become one with the couch.
Kevin Palmieri (05:32):
I understand. We do seven on, we usually do seven on Monday.
Angie Colee (05:35):
Holy crap.
Kevin Palmieri (05:36):
Yeah's. And then it, it's a lot. It's a lot. And then, but the reason is because I'm on, I have another podcast. So I, I'm doing eight episodes a week minimum, and then I'm on anywhere from seven to 12 shows a week. So I do more in a, a week than a lot of people do in six months, but in the be beginning one episode and one coaching call for me, and that was, I was on the couch. You and I would be watching the same thing because I was on the couch after that. So it's just a good example of how the more you do something, the better you get and the less pressure it is, it gets a little bit easier as you get better. Yeah.
Angie Colee (06:11):
And it almost feels the same thing as building strength in the gym, right? Yeah. Get in the reps and it becomes much more tolerable. I hit my limit at five, so I admire you a whole hell of a lot because the day that I did five, like I could barely, I was barely coherent.
Angie Colee (06:27):
So now I cap 'em out at four a day. But we have this interesting thing happening where I, I had a wait list because I take breaks after I have filled my sleep. 'cause nobody wants to hear when you book in for a podcast. Okay, cool. I'm happy to have you. We can record next month and that'll air next year. Yeah, yeah. In nine months. Mm-hmm. . And that's kinda where I'm at with the production of the show where we just opened up, we invited everybody on the wait list to apply and to book their spots. And two weeks later I'm in talks with my assistant to shut it down again and start another wait list. Because at this point I'm gonna have to tell people again, we're recording in August. I can't hear you until March . Mm-hmm. I'm sorry about that. Nobody wants to hear that. So, yeah. It's
Kevin Palmieri (07:07):
A good problem to have for you though.
Angie Colee (07:09):
It's a, it's definitely a good problem because it allows me to get a little bit more organized. It allows me to get a little bit more focused on who would be the best fit for the show. Hmm. And all of that stuff is awesome. So enough about me and my show. Tell me a little bit more about your journey, because I imagine that it wasn't just like, I went to YouTube University, I got all of this stuff, and we just cool . We, we had the machine running the next day. What was that like?
Kevin Palmieri (07:33):
Yeah, when I started, I was working in an industry called Weatherization. So we would go into buildings and make them more energy efficient. And the upside was, I made a lot of money. The downside was I lived in hotels and I lived in the road pretty much. So I fell in love with podcasting. Mm-hmm. in the very beginning. It was just a hobby. I was interviewing my friends. I wasn't taking it super seriously. I didn't have a business plan. I was never planning on making this a business. I ended up making a hundred thousand dollars at my job. And I had this moment where I realized that I was super unfulfilled and the money didn't fix any of the internal problems I was dealing with. And it broke my paradigm. And I said, I don't wanna go to this job anymore. I don't, I don't wanna do it.
Kevin Palmieri (08:19):
I'm done. I don't want to climb to the mountain. I've already been to the top. I don't wanna do it again. So I doubled down and fell even more in love with podcasting as I fell out of love with my job. And I ended up sitting on the edge of a bed contemplating suicide later that year because I was, I just felt so stuck and so trapped and so hopeless and helpless. And then I ended up leaving that job a few months after that. And then I went all in on the podcast and that's when it was, okay, how do I post in the social media? How do we get to know our listeners? What kind of equipment do we need? Do we need audio editing, video editing? How do I get better at all that? So in, in a weird way, Angie, the first year was actually kind of the easiest because I wasn't taking it very seriously. The second year is, I'm broke, I'm now an entrepreneur, I'm now a business owner. How do I figure everything out? And that was 2018. Right. So the landscape of podcasting was a little bit different in 2018 where I didn't really have anybody to ask other than mm-hmm. , good old YouTube university.
Angie Colee (09:24):
Yeah. . Oh man. That's an incredible journey. Uh, and I find that a lot of folks really have that same experience on their business journey, especially if they enter into a kind of creative endeavor. My background is copywriting and marketing, but I know graphic designers, photographers, choreographers, all kinds of people that did the same thing. My business started as a side hobby and I didn't really have a reason to get serious about it until, yeah. And man, talk about motivation. When you have to make happen, all of the fear-based excuses go out. I can't do that kind of promote 'cause what would people think of me? Who caress what people think of me? I need to get the word out somehow. Yes. Let's try it and see what happens.
Kevin Palmieri (10:06):
Yeah. There was a lot of necessity. There was a lot of necessity. Now I don't ever suggest anybody does it the way we did it, because there's a lot of pressure and there's a lot of anxiety that goes into it. But looking back, I can't imagine doing anything else. I mm-hmm. . I get that. Oftentimes we get that philosophical question. If you couldn't podcast, what, what would you do? I don't know. I have no idea. I'd start another podcast. That's what I would do. . I don't care if it's against the rules. That's what I would do. I love podcasting. That's what I would do.
Angie Colee (10:33):
too, because it's kind of like getting to be the host of your own talk show. Mm-hmm. . And you get to make up the rules of your talk show too. Uh, when I created this show, it was just because I didn't have any kind of show like this. And so I decided to be the show that I wanted to listen to. Yeah. Um, and you know, on the one hand it could be a very shortsighted business decision, but again, I didn't start it to be a business. I started it just to see what would happen and to get my name out there. Mm-hmm. But wow. Like everything that I've learned from this, and the more I hear from guests, the more I'm like trusting your instincts. There's really something to trusting your instincts. Going all in, not knowing what will happen, but being open to it.
Angie Colee (11:15):
Because every once in a while I'll hear from somebody that goes, man, this just spoke to my soul. And it's kind of cool getting to be a fly on the wall, listening to two people's, like private conversation. And I was like, yes. That was the whole goal because I got, I got so off. And everybody who's listened to this show before has heard this story a hundred times. But I got so off at the, the dichotomy at business conferences, and I haven't been to a podcast conference yet, so I don't know if this holds true, but I suspect it does. Hmm. There there are the, the amateurs and the beginners and the growth stage people who are struggling, who are watching the people on stage with this thought that that person has their together. And I am hopelessly behind a perpetual and will never figure this out.
Angie Colee (12:01):
I could never be that person. And the piece that they're missing is that conversation at the bar where somebody goes, they walk off the stage giving their shiny presentation about how to make a million dollars in six months, whatever, . And they sit down with their buddy that they've been itching to talk to for the last six months, but the Schedule's Haven Alliance. And they grab a beer and they go, oh dude, dude, I just lost my biggest client and I got hit with a lawsuit. I have no idea what the I'm gonna do. Hmm. But like, these two things are not mutually exclusive. Yeah. They could be happening at the same time that you are successful and not successful in different arenas. I just kind of love that we get to contain multitudes in business as humans. Yes.
Kevin Palmieri (12:47):
It's never what it looks like. Mm-hmm. , it's just what, what do you allow people to see? We had a, we had a time, uh, probably like six months ago where, so we have a podcast production company. As part of our business, one of our clients came to us and said, Hey, there's somebody who's is offering to do everything that you do, but it's 50 bucks a month or something. And I said, this is not real. I'm certain this is not real. I've researched these people. Do not do this. You will regret it. Mm-hmm. . And we ended up, we ended up losing three clients. A whole group of clients ended up going over there and we ended up getting word after that. It was a whole Fugazi and none of it was real. But I was freaking out. I remember thinking, oh my goodness, my business model's not gonna work. We're not cheap enough. We're not, it was a whole, I was, I lost sleep. I told my wife, I said, I think we're in trouble. I don't know what to do. Now, luckily my trauma response to stuff like that is usually work harder and, and just get more clients. But I was very, very, very scarce for a whole week where I was freaking out and I thought everything we had built was crumbling to the ground. So that is the real piece behind the scenes of being an entrepreneur for sure.
Angie Colee (13:52):
Mm-hmm. , I love that. I wrote it down and I circled it a couple of times, but that it's never what it looks like. Mm-hmm. And it's all in what you let them see. Right. Because it's not, it's not deception the way some people who haven't been in business might see it. And I have heard people who don't have a business. Right. We've all seen those, the, the customers that this is not the way you run a business. What do you know about running a business, sir or ma'am or person? I don't think you know anything about how a business runs, but thank you for sharing your opinion with me. I'm going to throw it in the trash can and light the trash can on fire. It means nothing to me. But what do you let them see? Right. How do you instill trust in the people who are working with you if you let them see that you are falling apart? Right. Yeah. It's not hiding things from people. It's being selective about who you're sharing your story with. And I know whenever I'm going through the and I'm, I'm elbows deep in it and I'm stressed out, that's gonna make a great story. Someday. Yes. We'll be sharing it with people someday, . But I live by that philosophy of share from scars. Not open wounds
Kevin Palmieri (15:00):
A hundred percent
Angie Colee (15:01):
While this thing is bleeding, we don't need it out there. Bleeding all over people. I'm just gonna keep this to myself. I'm gonna go through it and meant, oh, in a couple months when I'm past a really heavy situation, I will be sharing some stuff with podcast listeners. So everybody stay tuned for that. But you get to let people see what you let them see. And you still get to be a whole complex hu human that contains multitudes that is doing their best. Oh, I love it. . And I wanted to circle back to something that you said about not being cheap enough. Do you wanna dive into that fear a little bit more?
Kevin Palmieri (15:40):
Yeah. It, the big part of me knew that this wasn't real. There was a big part of me that knew, I know the numbers. I understand how this, all this works. We have a team, we have a huge team. I know how this works. This can't be real. But then the pro, the next thought I had was, well, if this person is able to get people in the door and then they have some sort of upsell that works, it doesn't matter if they end up being the same price as long as they get people in there. So that was really the only time I have ever had that fear of our price being too much, because everybody else has always given me the feedback of, wow, that's wildly affordable. Mm-hmm. . And I've never been of the mindset that if somebody says, wow, that's cheaper than I thought that you should raise your prices.
Kevin Palmieri (16:25):
I'm just, I don't, I don't aspire to that. I'm focused on impact first. And I believe if you impact enough people, profitability follows. Yes. That's a deep belief that I have. Right. So I've had a lot of people say, Hey, you should really add a zero to your pricing. You should double, you should triple, you should quadruple unless you're playing the same game. We are. I don't, I don't take that advice really, because I don't, I don't know if you truly understand why we're doing it. Mm-hmm. . Right. Much to your point about taking advice.
Angie Colee (16:52):
Yeah. There's this, oh, I've been on a rant about this before, but there's this prescriptive version of coaching that assumes that from the outside I can tell you what's wrong with your business. Hmm. And on the one hand, yes, bring in somebody with outside perspective who's not mired down in the the same way you are, can help you identify gaps. But then some folks take it a step further and they go, okay, I've identified a gap. Here's how you should fix it. Here's what I think the solution is. And I'm not a fan of that at all. I think that whole like, well you need to raise your prices fits into that. I usually start with coaching clients by asking, well, how do you feel about your pricing? Do you feel like it's helping you meet your goals? Are you seeing people bulk at it a lot?
Angie Colee (17:37):
If you are seeing people bulk, is it the situation that you mentioned earlier where they found a cheaper vendor but that person had no idea what they were doing and royally screwed things up? I don't wanna wanna compete with that. I have no desire to bring my quality of service down to that level and play in that, in that field. Right. Um, so some people don't wanna raise their prices. Yeah, that's fine. Not everybody wants a multimillion dollar business in a huge team. And for those who do, they're gonna find their pricing. Whether or not I think it's right or not.
Kevin Palmieri (18:09):
I think the, the why is your pricing the way it is. That's a good question. Because yes, at this point, I've worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs and this is the thing I get so often. They say, I'm gonna make an online course and I'm gonna charge $4,995 for it. And I say, why? How'd you come up with that number? Well, that's what my coach is charging. Mm-hmm. , uh, does your coach have a ton of demand or are they brand new like you? Oh no, they have a ton of demand. They've been doing this for 10 years. Okay. You should probably lower your price because you're not gonna get that. And you're gonna set yourself up for failure. Yes. And then you're gonna think you suck and you're gonna think you're not good. When in reality there just is not enough demand, yet you have plenty of supply. Mm-hmm. let the demand let the demand grow. And that's one of the reasons our prices are gonna stay the way they do. 'cause we have demand. I'm good with that. We could raise 'em if we wanted to, but we don't, we don't need to. It's not, there's so many other things in the business and there's so many whys. So that would, that's just, I would say, why do you charge what you charge? Is it for you mm-hmm. or is it for the customer, consumer client.
Angie Colee (19:07):
Yeah. I see so many people that fall into that trap of, and and that's the same thing that I talked about earlier with people who comment on how you should run a business that clearly have no business experience. Those are the ones that are telling you what the price should be, how you're gonna lose business. And if you're newer or in growth stage or hitting a money, you know, a, a block or, or time where the money is scarce. Right. It's tempting to lean into that and follow that advice. 'cause here's a customer. But I always ask myself two things. One, is this a, a paying customer? Is this somebody who just theoretically buys some product somewhere but not actually mine? Um, if they are a paying customer, had they just bought, you know, one $5 product from me all time? Or are they a repeat fan telling me something that I could do for them that would make them even happier as a customer?
Angie Colee (19:58):
Like not every piece of feedback is treated equally and nor should it be. And I hate that blanket pricing of like, oh, well my coach charges this. Yeah. So I should charge this. It seems like a number that is reasonable to me, but it's not based in your own reality. Based on what you need to make, based on who you, how confident you are in your sales process, in your sales calls, based on the value that you know that you can deliver to people. Like there are so many variables here. And I'm not meaning if you're on the newer end of the spectrum and you're listening to this, I'm not meaning to make it sound super overwhelming, trust me, I am a natural born creative. I am a writer by trade. None of these things were things that I knew going into business . This is all stuff that can be learned. So same. Yeah,
Kevin Palmieri (20:44):
Same.
Angie Colee (20:45):
I love that. And supply and demand plays so much into this. Right. That's why it's such a great strategy. And I recommend this over and over again to people of like, okay, so let's look at what you want to make and let's look at where you're positioned in the market with this product, and let's figure out a super attractive price that you can limit to a certain number of people or a certain period of time so that you can get some results and get some feedback, and then get some referrals and start generating that demand. Yes, exactly. Like you talked about.
Kevin Palmieri (21:13):
Yes. I love free stuff. I'm a huge proponent of doing free trials, free test runs. We are at the stage now where we don't have to do free, but we do, we still do free trials because if you enjoy it, it's going to the supermarket. Somebody gives you a hotdog on a stick and you eat it and you say, that's a really good hot dog on a stick. Oh, there's a box of it right now. I'll pick up a box of this when you might not have. It's, I know it's one of those old time things, but it's always worked. And I think what has happened, and I've seen this so often, many people attach their self-worth to their pricing.
Angie Colee (21:51):
And
Kevin Palmieri (21:51):
It doesn't have to be that way. I do. So I do a wild amount of things for free. It doesn't make me feel bad. I feel good about doing it for free. I, I really do. I feel like I'm adding value. So a good question to ask is how much of my pricing in the way I'm doing my business is directly connected to my self-worth? That is a really interesting conversation to have with yourself.
Angie Colee (22:14):
Oh, it really is. And I was, I was trying so hard not to laugh over the top of what you said. That is the first time I ever heard basically like a business freebie or a lead magnet compared to a Costco sample. . Yeah. But that was, that was genius
Kevin Palmieri (22:28):
. It works. It
Angie Colee (22:31):
Works. It really does. It's the highest. But in marketing, we talk about demonstration as the biggest form of proof. A big buying lever that you can lean on. Um, one of my favorite examples of that is, do you remember the Will it blend series on YouTube?
Kevin Palmieri (22:45):
I do
Angie Colee (22:46):
Forever ago. But yeah, I mean, if you wanna prove to me that your blender can blend just about anything, including all of my frozen smoothie ingredients, coat an iPad in that blender and show me that it can blend an iPad, buy that blender. I do have that blender
Kevin Palmieri (23:01):
. It works.
Angie Colee (23:02):
It definitely works. And I loved what you talked about, like free stuff. There are people that argue vehemently against it. Like, you should know your value, you should have worth you. You worked and you earned this expertise and you have earned that money. And then there are folks that believe like you and like me, that there is value in that. Even if I'm not charging for it, the value the person gets from it is what matters to me. And I have a similar rule. I call it my five minute rule. If somebody asks me for something and it takes me less than five minutes, I'll usually do it. Mm.
Kevin Palmieri (23:32):
I like
Angie Colee (23:32):
It. Yeah. I can, I can make an intro, I can write a recommendation in five minutes. There's a lot that I can do in five minutes. Once we start getting beyond five minutes, we're talking about a coaching call or a consultation or something else. And because I have to go deeper, I'm going to have to say, well, here's a link to my calendar. You can book a paid consultation, otherwise I can send you some more resources and you can go digging for these solutions on your own. Mm-hmm. Either way you go, I am fine. Yeah. It doesn't matter to me. You gotta do what's right for you. Yeah. So
Kevin Palmieri (24:00):
I love that. I love that frame.
Angie Colee (24:02):
Yeah. And I've generated a lot of goodwill that way. And I mean, not, the point of all this to me is not telling you the listener, that you have to do everything that everybody asks, that you have to provide free. I'm a big fan of you finding the way that feels good for you and learning to not become the person who absolves themselves of responsibility for making decisions by hiring a business coach that has the one thing that always works, . And when it doesn't work for you, you go, well, I did everything they told me. It's not my fault. It's clearly a problem with their system. There
Kevin Palmieri (24:37):
Is no one thing, there is no one thing. There are, uh, somebody, I had a client ask me one time, I said, what, what are the three things I should be doing? And I said, I understand what you're saying. I do. You are looking for the big rocks. But you have to understand there is no one chunk of gold in the backyard. The gold is everywhere and you gotta keep digging for it. Forever, forever, forever.
Angie Colee (24:57):
I love that. I love that. It's down to what we can do. And I could tell you as a coach what I think you should do. And I have had people that come to me and say, I just, uh, I've got so much going on. I just need you to tell me what to do. I just need plan that I can follow. And I go, I am not the person for you. If that's what you need, I can't do that for you. Because what will happen is I will help you build a business that works for Angie because every decision that I'm making is going through my filters, through my life experience, through the kind of work that I like to do. And none of that may be right for you. You may get into that business and discover that you hate it, and then you gonna hate me.
Angie Colee (25:32):
And I don't like that . So no, don't build a business for me. You have the answers in you somewhere. Even if it's the not right for right now, answer a k a, you know, we, we attach a lot of feelings to wrong. So I was trying not to use the word wrong there. Mm-hmm. not right for right now, but follow that path anyway and learn what you can learn. Uh, I imagine that you did something similar throughout this process of building the podcast into a business. And we touched on it a little bit lightly, but can you tell me about a time that maybe you didn't think that this was for you and you should go back to a job ?
Kevin Palmieri (26:07):
Yeah. When I, I was, it was 2019, I was two and a half years into this. I had just moved in with my girlfriend, who's not my wife. And I couldn't afford to pay for groceries. I couldn't afford to pay for rent. My car broke down. I couldn't afford to get it fixed. It was literally breaking down at every red light. It was just shut off. And I'd have to turn it back on and, and get it going. The brakes were gone. It got to the point where I had a mechanic come to me because I thought it would be cheaper. And they pre-charged my credit card and I was, I got sent to collections. It was a whole thing. Yeah. I had that moment where it was like, I don't know if this is gonna work. I'm mm-hmm. , I'm so far in debt. I don't know. Sales, I don't know numbers. Yeah. It, it would be a lot easier for me to go find something else. Definitely. Definitely.
Angie Colee (26:58):
And how did you get out of it? Like how, what helped you find the strength to keep going? Was it a supportive partner? Was it an internal voice? Some combination thereof?
Kevin Palmieri (27:07):
I have a, I have a world-class business partner. I'm very, I'm very blessed where my business partner, he couldn't explain this to me at the time. Now I think he, he would be better at it, but he said, Kev, right now doesn't matter. It's gonna be fine. I understand. Thank you. Thank you for that breakthrough thought. But it does matter. It matters so much right now. 'cause I can't afford to buy groceries, man. What do I do? So yeah, I had a very supportive business partner who did a really good job of painting the picture of the future for me. He is far more of a visionary. I am a creative, more of a creative than a visionary. So that was a big piece. And then here's the other thing too. I traded in everything for this. So my why power to keep going and why I started this, I really do wanna have an impact on the world. I can say that it sounds really cool. I can tell people that if I'm not putting one foot in front of the other and actually doing what it takes to impact the world, I would regret that at a very deep level. So I always check in with, with that level of commitment as well. And that's what I did back then too.
Angie Colee (28:08):
Mm-hmm. , I love that school of thought and that, I mean, if I could prescribe that to everybody, that's what I would do is to try and face the fears and figure out what you can do because it matters to you, right? Yes. Because all of this stuff, to be super, super trites is gonna be the stuff that you're thinking about at the end of days. That, man, I should have done this, man, I should have done that. And I learned this on my, I'm a digital nomad. I travel a lot. And I learned this on my travels. I had so many people that were like, man, you have, how do you see all the sites when you're in a particular town? And I usually spend six weeks in each town, so there's plenty of time, but I gotta work in between, right? It's not just all Instagram models of me hanging off a cliff and crazy stuff.
Angie Colee (28:54):
Uh, some of us do, uh, digital nomadism differently. And it's not, look at me, it's, oh, I'm having fun. I forgot to take pictures entirely. Sorry. Um, so I only have six weeks in each place. How can you possibly see everything that you wanna see in each place? And I tell them, I don't, I don't. I see whatever I can see that fulfills the question of, if I never came back again, if I never had the opportunity to return, would I be happy with the time that I spent here? Would I feel like I got to do everything I wanted to do? Those are the things that make it to the top of the list for me. And everything else is a cool, someday when I come back and I have every intention of coming back, but it may or may not happen. I'll go through those other things.
Angie Colee (29:38):
And so that was how I got to do some really cool things like llama yoga. That was, that was one of the most interesting experiences of my life. And it, there are actual, real life llamas wandering around while you're attempting to do yoga . It doesn't, you're not yoga in very well in that situation. . Um, I got to visit an aquarium in Georgia where you get to have these, you can pay extra to do these experiences. I got to feed stingrays and sharks and like pet a shark. That was the weirdest, imagine. They're not slimy. They're, they're warm and sandpapery. That was weird for me. got to go in a hot air balloon in Santa Fe. So like, all of the choices that I'm making are from the perspective of when I get to the end of my days, whenever that happens, hopefully many, many years in the future. Mm-hmm. Uh, will I be happy with the choices that I've made? That's, I'm trying to work toward future Angie's approval, not everybody else's approval. Yep. I love you guys, but I don't care what you think. ,
Kevin Palmieri (30:41):
We call it reverse engineering regret.
Angie Colee (30:44):
Ooh.
Kevin Palmieri (30:45):
Every thi this changed my life. This, this thought changed my life. And this is, if you're, whether you're watching or listening, you have somewhere in your life you could probably use this. So I'm sitting at my desk right now. This is where I do all my work. Every morning one of my cats fudge. He jumps up on this desk and he headbutts me and he stands in front of my keyboard and he walks all over my laptop. And I used to get off and I used to get frustrated. And then I sat there and I said, one day, fudge is gonna die. And I am going to regret all the times. He just wanted a simple headbutt. I pushed him away. Mm-hmm. . And now every day when he jumps up here, I love on him until he runs away from me. Because one day I'm not gonna have that opportunity. I know that's heavy, I know that's hardcore, but I'm trying to reverse engineer regrets now so I can avoid them in the future. And I thought it was appropriate to share that based on where our conversation was.
Angie Colee (31:37):
No, I think that is, that's a beautiful sentiment. And I think we often get, I mean, part of the mission of permission to Kick Ass is to help us talk about those fears and shine a light on the shame so that people hopefully feel a little bit less alone. And I know regret is deeply tied into shame and how we present ourselves to the world when we're feeling shameful is very small, very noded in. I have a very similar philosophy. I, and that's exactly why on these travels, uh, much to people's delight and surprise. I travel with a cat. She comes with me on the car for sometimes 10 to 12 hour days in the car. She stays with me in hotels and Airbnbs. All my hosts have met her. People have stopped me at rest, stops watching me walk her on a leash. And more than one person, I've managed to lock her out of the room that I'm in now. But usually she likes to crash a meeting and I won't like push her away when that happens. And people laugh 'cause they'll see like her tail come across my face and look like a mustache. She'll demand to be held like a baby. And she'll sit right here and I'll just carry on the meeting or the recording. Like, yep. Cool. Yeah. Oh, tell me more about that. Yes, I see that as a multimillion dollar opportunity while I'm Mr. Eviling over here, Dr. Eviling with my cat,
Kevin Palmieri (32:53):
I'm all about it. Mm-hmm. .
Angie Colee (32:54):
But those, I mean, that's a relationship to me too. That's a responsibility to a loving living creature that I want to keep that bond with. And that, you know, this thought just popped up to me for that, but like, who are you investing in? Mm. And it's so easy when you get in business to like ignore friends and family and the close people to go talk to these entrepreneurs over here and build relationships with those people that you wanna be with. And I think it's a delicate line to walk. Like we don't always get it right when you're trying to build something and you've got a big mission. But, well,
Kevin Palmieri (33:29):
On either end though, that's, I've worked with a lot of entrepreneurs who value entrepreneurship and success more than friendship. And they're afraid to be honest about that. Hmm. E either way, just be honest. Maybe you value your family more than the business. Good. Just admit it and then live your life based on that. I am somebody who I see my family three or four times a year. Mm-hmm. . But that's just the way I'm wired. I love my family, but I would rather work. Mm-hmm. , I'd rather, I'd rather be podcasting. I'd rather be coaching. One of the best things I ever did was admit that. But there's fear behind that. I know people might hear that and say, oh my goodness. What? You don't care about your family at all. You don't care about your mom and your grandmother. I do, of course. But I also believe what's best for me is what's best for the business. And that's what's best for me.
Angie Colee (34:18):
I love that. 'cause I've wrestled with that a lot too. I have the spirit of a wanderer as obvious, you know, by two and a half years of being a digital nomad. And I have always felt that that shearing of the soul almost of like, I love my family and I want to be able to spend more time with them. Ideally I could just take all of them with me on the road, but that's not gonna work for them in the lives that they've chosen for themselves. So I have to reconcile it to be like, to be true to myself. I need to go out and spend time away from them. And it's not 'cause I wanna get away from them, it's 'cause I have other things that I wanna do that they can't or won't be part of. And that makes getting together even more fun because we get to appreciate like, oh my God, I've had all of these adventures.
Angie Colee (35:02):
And then like a couple years ago, um, the first year on the road when I came back, I had six weeks to spend with my family over the Christmas holiday and I didn't want them to buy me presents. And that's really hard in the south. 'cause if I bought them presents, they were gonna buy me presents and it would be a whole thing. I couldn't argue against. The southern cultures is weird like that . And they had all mentioned at some point you look like you're having a lot of fun. I would love to be able to do that. So I decided, okay, cool. We're gonna do an adventure for Christmas instead of presents. We're just gonna go out and have fun together and we're gonna create memories. And so, like my mom and stepdad and I went to this random castle in southeast Texas that some guy built 'cause he wanted a castle.
Angie Colee (35:42):
And now he, uh, charges people to do tours of it. That was a whole lot of fun. We made, uh, we found a blacksmith who's been on that weird show, forged in Fire. I love it. It's a guilty pleasure. Uh, he teaches people how to make knives out of horseshoes and you can go pay for that experience. So we did that. Uh, my brother and his girlfriend and I went to a museum and then I got to introduce them to the delights of Indian food. My sister and my niece and nephew and brother-in-law. We went to a ropes course. It was fan fabulous . It was so amazing to be able to share all the things that I learned with them instead of just defaulting to the normal pattern of like, here's a bunch of Christmas presents. Mm-hmm. And I love Christmas presents 'cause I'm a wrapping nerd, but like, I don't know, sharing that part with the people that matter most and staying true to yourself. There's, there's a special kind of magic to all of that.
Kevin Palmieri (36:30):
A hundred percent. If it's not sustainable, you're not gonna be successful. It's just not gonna work. Mm-hmm. , it has to be sustainable. And then even a layer deeper, if you are an entrepreneur, think of all the things that Angie did. Ropes course that's a business that probably sucked and was not winning in the beginning. Making knives outta horseshoes. I wonder where that person was before they got on the show. The castle thing. He got laughed at for sure. Are you gonna build a castle and charge people? So your idea might be more viable than you think. There's a million people out there doing things who, or doing things that got laughed at and nobody believed in. So you never know.
Angie Colee (37:04):
I love that. That is the perfect philosophy to wrap this up on because I always tell people whatever you think, no matter how weird or outta the box, like follow your gut and find a way to make it happen. 'cause odds are, you're not the only one looking for that out there in the world. You could be the person to create it. And if you think it's impossible, remember that there are several people whose full-time job it is to blow up at Disney World. , that's a real job blowing up full-time. So whatever you can imagine, building a castle, becoming a blacksmith, you can becoming a podcaster like both of us have, you can make that a reality and just surround yourself with people who pump you up instead of drain the life out of you. A hundred
Kevin Palmieri (37:45):
Percent.
Angie Colee (37:46):
This has been fantastic. Thank you so much for being on the show. Tell us a little bit more where we can learn about your show.
Kevin Palmieri (37:51):
Yeah, all you gotta do is search Next Level University. We're on all the podcast platforms, we're on YouTube. We do an episode every day. So you'll either fall deeply, passionately in love with us or get sick of us very quickly. That's a, a great place to find us. And then my, the best place to find me on social media is Instagram. My handle is at never quit. Kid. Questions, comments, anything. I do my own dmm. So I'm just a, a message away if you need me.
Angie Colee (38:15):
I love that. Thank you so much again for being on the show. Of course. And I have to do a part two.
Kevin Palmieri (38:19):
I'm in.
Angie Colee (38:23):
That's all for now. If you wanna keep that Kick Ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high octane dose of you can do it. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the Permission to Kick Ass podcast on Apple Podcast, Spotify and wherever you stream your podcast. I'm your host, Angie Colee, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go Kick Ass some.