Angie Colee (00:01):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my new friend, Vivian Garcia-Tunon. Can you say hi please?

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (00:26):

Hi.

Angie Colee (00:27):

I like saying it that way, cuz it's like a 50 50 crap shoot as to whether somebody's just gonna say hi. Hi Angie, or like hi Vivian or

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (00:34):

Freak out

Angie Colee (00:35):

And do do the dad joke crew like hi Vivian. Hi hungry. My name is dad. There you go. Now that we're laughing at ourselves, tell us a little bit about your business and what you do.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (00:47):

Sure. So I would say I'm a, um, retired HR executive. I retired at 35.

Angie Colee (00:56):

Wow.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (00:56):

Um, and decided, um, to launch, um, an executive coaching and leadership development business. So for the last seven years I have been speaking truth to power inside organizations.

Angie Colee (01:11):

Ooh, that's awesome. And, and I think that's so desperately needed to, because one of the reasons that I went to freelancing, um, as a copywriter, which is what I do is like sales oriented writing was as that I worked for years at a super toxic place where there were a lot of personalities at high level positions that would say mean shit at meetings in front of witnesses. And I remember being in meetings and being like, is it, is somebody gonna, are you gonna stop this? Like, is that allowed? Can they talk to me that way? That's that so rude. Um, so, you know, that's a, a long winded way of saying, I appreciate what you do, cuz it is so desperately needed. Please be a human being, whether you run your business or somebody else's.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (01:56):

Absolutely. And I, it's funny you say that, cuz I that's exactly why I left corporate, um, as an HR person, um, I didn't feel empowered to speak truth within the organization it was more a risk function. Um, and so when I would see those toxic behaviors, um, I had to put a filter on it and deliver it in a way that, um, may not change the behavior. And today I feel like I'm, I'm unleashed and the ability to speak truth, um, and really help people turn those behaviors around.

Angie Colee (02:29):

Well, that's awesome. So what, what do you like most about doing this work?

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (02:35):

Um, I love seeing people soar. Like I, I really often get people that are stuck in some capacity in their potential, in their performance, um, or are really kind of trying to get to the next level or launch a new business. It really depends. Um, but I love being able to unleash them in their full potential and, and a lot of people come to me and be like, I know I'm not reaching my full potential or like I'm really miserable in this job right now and I don't know what to do next. And so it, to me, it's really fulfilling to be able to help people, uh, navigate different phases of their career.

Angie Colee (03:19):

I, I really love that. And, and I think that it's critical to circle back and like really highlight that fact that when you are stuck or overwhelmed or feeling like it's time to move on or you're fearful of the next step, but you know that you're not really doing everything that you could, that you get some outside perspective from someone, especially someone like Vivian who has the experience to like it's the outside perspective to be able to point out things that should be obvious, but aren't because we get wrapped up in our own nonsense, right? Uh, we are our own biggest blind spot friends for everybody that's listening. You are not the most objective observer of your own talents and skills or your flaws for that matter. So like, um, yeah, I'm a big fan of coaching. I am a big fan of investing in yourself. If you can't invest in yourself by hiring a coach, at least invest in yourself, by getting books, taking what courses you can, going to free community workshops and developing your skills. And I'm gonna challenge everybody here listening to develop their skills in leadership because these are skills that can be developed. And I know this because I have not always been a super empathetic person and I know that a lot of the toxicity in that of our, it was my fault that that happens. But I certainly didn't do anything to like put boundaries in place to short circuit the process when it was starting to go off the rails. Um, so I've since learned that since then to be a little bit redundant there. Uh, I've learned since then that there are ways there are systems and processes that you can put in place to kind of short circuit, something before it starts to devolve into a downward spiral where everybody is defensive and trying to attack somebody else and trying to pretend like they don't have any responsibility in this cuz they're feeling all but hurt. Like there are ways to short circuit that, and it doesn't always feel comfortable, but it gets a lot easier with practice. So yes, long way of saying investing, coaching do it.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (05:22):

I agree.

Angie Colee (05:23):

Yeah. I get up on soap boxes. So like don't mind me here. Um, so it's been seven years, correct. Would you say it's been all sunshine and roses in your business?

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (05:33):

Absolutely not. I mean, I wish I could say it again overall. It a it's been the most, the experience with the most growth in my life. However, with the growth comes a lot of shit as well. I've learned to work through both of them.

Angie Colee (05:57):

Oh, that's awesome. I was reading about, um, your story a little bit before we got on the call and I thought it was interesting about the time that you almost quit and you're like, that's it I'm done. Entrepreneurship is not for me. And like right when you gave up the work started finding you, can you tell me a little bit more about that?

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (06:15):

So I have to tell you, it kind of happens to me every 18 months.

Angie Colee (06:20):

Oh.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (06:21):

Um, so I, I, I feel very fortunate in the sense that, um, people still view me as marketable inside organizations and still wanna hire me into jobs when I'm not looking for jobs. But it's normally like every 18 months I, I get a call from someone that's like truly trying to tempt me with putting an absurd package in front of me. And every single time I'm like, okay, I mean, it's going well, it's going really well. But like, is this the right path? Is it not? Um, and every time I say no to the opportunity and let's be clear, sometimes it's really hard to say no to that opportunity. Cause you dunno where the next big contract is coming or the next client's coming from. Um, every time I say, no, I get like exactly what I want on the other side of it. And so the first time it happened, it literally was my, my old boss that called me and she had just taken a new job and she's like, come on, like, you've done this long enough it's time. Um, and I, I was so torn cuz I was a damn good people pleaser. Like, let's be clear. Someone wants me, I'll say yes, of course. Like, um, and it really took me, um, a lot to sit in my truth of what I wanted, um, and say no to her. Um, and I was kind of scared cuz I was like, maybe this will never come around again. Maybe this is my last shot to like get back if I need to. Um, and literally no sooner did I say no the next week I got my largest enterprise contract and I was like, what? I'm like, I didn't even know this was possible. So, um, it does happen. It does happen frequently. And I think the universe likes to test you and say like,

Angie Colee (08:15):

Are you really in this? Okay, cool. You said, you said, no, I'm gonna bring you an opportunity. You know, I'm gonna former boss of Vivian. If you are listening to this show, you probably aren't. But if you are, um, you've done this long enough. That's a shitty thing to say to somebody that's working their ass off and starting a business. I know that you meant well and your're looking out for your friend and your colleague again, you wanna give them a great opportunity, but don't say that stuff to your entrepreneur buddies and don't say it to yourself, you've done this long enough. Like, uh, yeah. I, I thought it was important to highlight this, this idea of saying no, cuz especially, especially women. I think we struggle with this a lot. I and the people pleasing. Totally, totally get that. Um, but saying no is necessary one because you can't say yes to everything. You can't be all things to all people all the time. Um, and two, because, and this is the thing that really changed my mind or around, I can't really say no. Especially if, if they wanna throw money at me and they wanna work at me and they wanna tell me that I'm brilliant. Yes, please. Um, no, my default is no now because saying yes to something is saying no to like six other opportunities

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (09:27):

That took me a long time to realize I'm not gonna lie my first few years I just said yes, cuz I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna pay the bills. I don't know how like I, and again, was it my market worth? Was it my value? No but I was so scared that I wouldn't be able to pay my bills that I just said yes. And I wish someone along the, the path would've been like, I, Hey dude, say no and better things are coming. I probably wouldn't believe them. But it still, would've been nice to hear.

Angie Colee (10:05):

It's it's hard to believe that when somebody that's further along the path that has like a little bit more experience and a little bit more context tells you to do something that doesn't yet make sense because you're missing that experience in that context. Uh, one of my mentors put it in such a great way that really helped me. And he would tell me, Angie, I know that you can't see around this corner, but I can. So like just keep walking, turn the corner. Things are going to be all right. We're not going to let you fail. Uh, and I was like, okay, okay. I need this be cuz I needed, at least the first time I went out on my own, I really needed someone to hold my hand every step of the way. And like almost believe in me when I couldn't, which is interesting.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (10:47):

Absolutely. And I have to tell you, um, one of my friends that I met in my coaching certification was like, look, I believe in you so much that no matter what you can call me in a day's notice and I will pay your rent. He's like, I got your back because I believe in you. And again, never did. I know I had people in my life that would be so generous. I, it wasn't something I had take. I know I have people that are generous, no one had ever offered something to, to that extreme. Um, and just to know that I had a safety net, I never used it, but I knew that I was gonna be okay. Um, and to your point, he believed that I was gonna be around the corner just like your, your old mentor. Um, and it makes a really big difference.

Angie Colee (11:41):

Mm. It really does. And that's why I love to tell people, like, be careful who you let into your be, be careful who you share your dreams with because not everybody needs to be part of that. At least not right away. There are gonna be people that are skeptics who care about you and who like they're deeply concerned and they're worried about you and they will shit all over your dreams and you know, and they see themselves as protecting you from being hurt. So like, I don't get mad at those people, but I'm like, all right, well, I don't need you to shit on this right now. I need to be working with people that help me, uh, see how to make this shine. Let's talk about shit versus shine. I need shine in my life right now. So, uh, you person that, you know, you're a little bit skeptical. I'm gonna wait until I've got proof and then you can join my shine party over here. Um, keep your shit to yourself.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (12:29):

I, I, I love it. I, I recently had a conversation. I was like, look, all I need is support right now. All I need is supporters. I get that. You may not like my ideas. But for me to have overcome the mental like process of getting to my next phase, I just need people that are championing me to say way to go rather than be the shitstorm is to be like, Nope, there's no way this is gonna happen. Don't do it. It's it, it just doesn't work. It doesn't help.

Angie Colee (12:59):

And all my love to those of you who are listening, who are the honest defenders and shit stormers of dreams. Um,

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (13:04):

Absolutely.

Angie Colee (13:05):

I love you. I think that your heart is in the right place. And I'm going to challenge you to reset your expectations because as none of us really knows what's going to happen, right. And something that has failed for a thousand years could suddenly work under the right circumstances. So like, since none of us see the future, none of us gets to tell somebody else that something won't work with a hundred percent certainty. Um, and then, you know, I, I just talked about this on the last episode I recorded, but somewhere along the way, last year, this idea popped into my head and I feel like I've been obsessed with it ever since. Like, I don't ever wanna be the reason that somebody gave up on themselves.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (13:47):

Me too, of, I, I think I, I think it's my life's mission to help people believe that the can make it work. Yeah. Like people come to me and they're like, there's no chance in hell. I'm gonna make this work. And I'm like, okay, let's make it like, Oh my God, I like, I am, I am the biggest champion of the underdog in their own belief system because I really do believe when we believe in it.

Angie Colee (14:15):

Yep.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (14:16):

We can create it and we can experience it. Yeah. Um, and

Angie Colee (14:20):

I know you believe in that you're not even gonna see the opportunities that could make it possible.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (14:24):

Like, um, exactly. Yep.

Angie Colee (14:27):

All right. Abrupt segue. So we talked about how we're positive and rosie and we're super supportive, but let's talk about a time in your business when it was growing that you were like, all right, that's it I'm fucking done? Uh, I don't know if I can make this work,

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (14:40):

You know, I think it was, uh, when I got, uh, an IRS audit. Um, and, uh, first of all, I thought that that was the plague. I thought it was the Scarlet letter. And I thought that, um, like I was so in, I didn't, I was so embarrassed by it. I was like, here I am thinking I'm doing all the right things. I'm and like, holy shit, the IRS, like, am I going to jail? Like, I, again, I didn't, I didn't know what gonna happen with this little audit. Um, and it really made me kind of double down and be like, there's risk and liability in what I'm doing each day. Um, I, I like to believe that I'm adding value and I'm helping people, but this risk of the IRS audit, um, what was kind of impactful. And it, it was innocence, um, in, um, and, and it was a really disturbing experience. I'm not gonna lie when, when you can't talk to a person and you can't engage with a human to actually resolve the issue or explain the issue.

Angie Colee (15:47):

So they don't do like a, a meeting or even like a phone call. They just like, send us all your shit and we'll get back to you?

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (15:53):

Exactly. And exactly like, it's literally, like here are your most vulnerable pieces of information. Please explain them. And like with zero human interaction, we'll decide if we believe you or not. I was like, oh, okay. Um, so it, it, that to me, and that was probably in year three, four year one, um, that really kind of stuck with me. And I was like, dude, if I'm gonna continue down this path of getting IRS audits all the time, I, I like, again, it just, it wasn't something I signed up for a challenge and I had to figure out the way to get, get to the other side.

Angie Colee (16:33):

Yeah. I love it. Like, because our rational mind knows that like it's not necessarily something that I did on purpose. An audit can be a completely random thing, luck of the draw, um, or unluck of the draw as it works.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (16:45):

Exactly.

Angie Colee (16:46):

But when those things happen, sometimes it's really hard to convince your rational brain to take over for your irrational brain. That's like, I fucked up, I did something wrong. This is horrible. Oh my God. Like catastrophizing, you know, um, I haven't had an IRS audit, but I did have two years in a row where thanks to, um, me wanting out of a relationship so badly that I let him like buy me outta the condo and I didn't claim anything. Um, and then the following year, I am a space cadet tend to avoid the numbers in my business. And that's why I've hired talented and capable, uh, bookkeepers and advisors to help me with that. But there was one year where, uh, I did work with a bookkeeper who didn't stay on top of me for quarterly payments and suddenly an entire year went by and I hadn't made any quarterly payments. And I got stocked with a big ass bill and was like panicking.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (17:35):

Oh, I had that too, oh, the financial things, you know, they come up, no surprises, even if you hire the best person, even like, so you think it's the best person. Yeah. Those surprises aren't really, um, that enjoyable. Um, and

Angie Colee (17:49):

There's, there's not really any way to prepare for it other than to do your best. And then like face it down when it comes. And the interesting thing that I thought about what you said was I, I was writing down some notes and I was like, isn't it fascinating to me like how terrifying the unknown is? And I'm putting like unknown quotes. Like, I don't know what's going to happen and I am scared. But now when somebody tells me, like, I'm, I'm worried about having, you know, owing the IRS and I'm like, uh, they'll, they'll probably put you on a payment plan, just automatically draw it out of your pay. And, and as long as they're getting their money, they generally leave you alone, at least in my experience. So I'm not your tax advisor consult your tax professional, just saying, but like, now that I know what, having a huge unexpected tax bill feels like, it's like, okay, I can deal with that. That's fine. Hmm.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (18:36):

Absolutely. But again, where do you get this information? When that happened to me, it was like, just at the time I had to make the payments and I was like, what? I'm like, I, I, I thought I was making all the payments. I thought we were good. And one of my friends was like, oh, this happens all the time. And I'm like, why didn't anyone tell me that? Like, why weren't we honest with one another? So like, again, it was helpful when I had the problem. And that's what we start realizing is when we have an amazing support network of other entrepreneurs that are kind of learning and growing or have, or further along, you can always ask them questions because truth is, they went through the same situation. Most likely, maybe they didn't talk about it. But when you put them on the spot, they're willing to, to support you and, and get you to the other side.

Angie Colee (19:25):

I love that. I wrote that down too. Like your support system is there to help you remember that you're not alone. Right. Cuz you're not the most objective person. So when you're panicking and that takes up all of your awareness, it's hard to imagine that like you are actually a tiny piece of the world and this is not the end of the world. Um, and it feels like you're alone, right? Because this is your only experience with this to date. But exactly having that support network in place will show you that this is not as unique an experience as you think it is. And it's totally get pastable.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (19:59):

And I think one point that like you also came out of kind of corporate. And so when I came out of corporate, I didn't have a lot of friends that were entrepreneurs. I didn't have, like, I started going to different communities and getting to know people and networking. But again, you still have to bit find your sisters or your brothers and sisters that are like, Hey, this is what's happening. Like this is how you get through it. And it's a whole new community of people that you are trying to get to know as you're also trying to of yourself that like, Oh, I can make this, like, I'm gonna make it. And you're like, what? I have this IRS issue or I have this tax issue. And you're like, it, it, it's a tricky dynamic. Um, yeah.

Angie Colee (20:44):

So you have to be, you have that support network, but you have to be brave enough to actually use it and not just like bluster and pretend. Everything is fine when it's not because the F it's, it was funny. The last couple people that I, I spoke to when I was recording, they were like, so tell me a little bit more about your audience. And I'm like, I, I really feel like they're creatives, they're growth stage entrepreneurs. They're people that are on the verge of giving up that we kill to be a fly on the wall. When we're talking at the bar about all the shit that's gone wrong. And the times that we were about to give up, like, and that's really how I wanted the show to play out, like, okay, you're just listening to two friends at the bar go like, oh God, I'm dealing with this IRS shit. And everything's going, hell. You know, I feel like just burning it all, but here's what happened. Like it's to, it's totally available to you, if you are brave enough to be vulnerable with the right support network. Not, not the shitters, the shiners. Right.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (21:38):

Absolutely.

Angie Colee (21:41):

So, yeah. I mean, you got into it a little bit, but tell me more about how you moved past that and like got comfortable with that and decided to, to keep the business going

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (21:51):

Really what happened was, um, I had a plan, so I knew what, like first the numbers, and again, when you're first launching a business, like anything is a, is a success like a five, a $5 client, or like a, 1500 whatever it is like just getting money in the door is exciting. Um,

Angie Colee (22:13):

I think my first one paid me 50 bucks.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (22:15):

Exactly. Like my brother used to take me to lunch and I was like, OK, like this counts for, like, you're just learning you, you have to go through those growing things. Um, at least for me, I did not, everyone has to go through them, but once I was able to quantify the number, um, and you know what, it's kind of weird, but the universe just had the money in my account when I needed to pay it. So I got the warning from the IRS. It was like three iterations back and forth of like, here's my paperwork. No, we don't trust you. Here's my paperwork again. And so it kind of took some time, which again was a blessing for me. And so by the time we got to the amount that I had to pay, I actually had it in my bank account. It wasn't a big deal, but in the moment I was like, this money isn't here. Like I can't pay it. Like I just need to like give up and like go back to what I was doing, because it just felt so confusing that I like didn't have the money in my bank account. And I didn't, I couldn't put it on a credit card. Yeah. Um, so what was I gonna do?

Angie Colee (23:25):

It's so interesting. Like, I, I love how in life, if you're paying attention, there are themes that keep recurring and I'm I, well, I told you before we were recording, but I didn't mention on this. This is like a marathon recording day for me. I've got five episodes back to back. I'm talking to people and everybody today has had that kind of story of like shit, I'm, I'm running outta runway here. I've got staff to support. I don't have money to pay them. I don't know what the hell's going to go on. Like, I don't know how I can pull myself out of this, but then they just kind of sat with the discomfort, worked through it, figured out some sort of plan that gave them some power and some utility in their lives instead of feeling helpless. And somehow every single one of them pulled off that miracle thing that pulled their ass outta the fire at the 11th hour. It's been an amazing day. I can tell you that.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (24:17):

Well, aren't your listeners so lucky because they're gonna listen to this and they're gonna be on fire. They're gonna be like, there's no way I'm stopping.

Angie Colee (24:25):

Oh yeah. I, I love that cuz I, I didn't even know when I started the show, I kind of had a vague idea based on, you know, hearing one of my friends that was doing some really big business with people that I respected melted down in a mastermind. And I was like, oh shit, you could be anxious all the time and still do awesome things. Cool. This changes my perspective. And so when I went out to people and I started, I'm looking for people to, to talk on this show, we're just gonna converse about this. And you know, ideally you share a time that you fell flat on your face. Well, yes, please. Let's come on my show and tell the world how you failed spectacularly. And uh, we'll laugh about it. Like our worst fear

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (25:04):

And you know what? People need to hear those stories because it isn't all like it isn't all, uh, sugar and candy or I, it, it isn't all like peaches

Angie Colee (25:17):

And not unicorns and rainbows.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (25:19):

Exactly. But you work through it and you get to the other side

Angie Colee (25:23):

And I've been astonished at some of the stuff that people have shared with me. One of my friends told me about, um, uh, getting served with a six figure lawsuit in the middle of losing all of his clients while things were shutting down for COVID and like, oh my God, the panic moment of that. One of my friends shared a different kind of fear and one that I think a lot of entrepreneurs feel and share. And that's why I had her on the show. She was like, do I get to call myself an entrepreneur If I take a job? And I was like, absolutely, you get to call yourself whatever the hell you wanna call yourself. Um, if you wanna call yourself a Turkey, I'm gonna give you the side eye, but I'm gonna be like, all right. Turkey. You do you boo.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (26:05):

I think you bring up a really good point. During COVID at the beginning of COVID. That was another really big surrender. And I was like, I had been in Japan. Uh, I was the, I was on the last flight out of Japan when Japan shut down. Um, and I come back to the states and I'm like, oh my God, did I really just go to Japan? And now the world is shutting down here. Oh, this is not so good. And, and for the first, probably three to four months of COVID, I didn't have any clients coming in. I didn't have any, like, everyone was scared that the end of the world was coming and it was, it was another moment of surrender. And I was like, this is a time that the universe is either gonna show me that this is gonna work or they're gonna show me another path forward. Um, and truthfully, I think again, the surrender brought me to kind of, so I'm of the most, one of the most successful years ever in the business. And, and I was like, what I learned there was, I had fear that was under, was like the underpin of my business. I had the fear that I had to keep on doing, doing, and doing. And if I didn't do, I wouldn't be able to survive. I wouldn't able to make, to make money. And it was in those four months where I was like, I can't sell anything like humanity, we're like lost and confused. Like, we're, we're all worried that we're not gonna have enough toilet paper or whatever. Like, we don't know if were gonna have job. Like I'm like, I can't sell and I won't sell. And it was in that surrender where I was like, look, if every day I'm worried that this business isn't gonna work. I need to be able to heal that inside of me.

Angie Colee (28:00):

It's like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (28:01):

It totally was. And I was like, and I just sat there. And I was like, oh, okay. I'm like, I'm letting go of that fear. And I'm gonna see what happens. And yes, there were moments that I was like, oh no, this isn't gonna work. But Hey, as soon as I let it go more came in.

Angie Colee (28:18):

I love that. Like this concept of surrender is one that I think we're super like, uh, leary about or worried about like resistant to this idea of surrender and by surrender, like I wanna make it clear. I don't think we're talking about giving up here or giving up your power. I think we're giving up on the idea that we can control anything and refocusing your attention on what you can control. So you can control your breathing right now, even if you can control nothing else on the world, like on the face of this earth. Um, and I remember that, like, I I'm sure everybody here remember remembers it vividly. I was still working with one of my long term clients. And for those first two weeks, it felt like suspended animation. It felt like that first initial drop on a really tall, really fast roller coaster, but like permanent, just that gut in your throat feeling like nonstop for two weeks, I was very fortunate at the time that the, that the client after sitting with it, um, well, first of all, he was incredibly generous. He immediately sends everybody on the team 500 bucks and was like, go stalk up on toilet paper, get yourself some groceries, hunker down while we figure what to do, which I think is like a great surrender too. Like I'm gonna reassure my team in this time when everybody's scared, they're looking to me for guidance and the longer I stay silent, the more they're gonna be terrified. Right. Um, nice, neat little unintentional circle back to developing the leadership and that empathy.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (29:44):

Absolutely.

Angie Colee (29:45):

I know. And then, um, right after that, he started and I loved this about him. He's super strategic dude. He's like, all right, well, everybody's sitting at home, they can't go to work. They're probably gonna get bored of watching Netflix after a while. Uh, nobody could have predicted the sourdough baking trends, but you know, whatever. Uh, and he goes, okay, well, I sell an online course and people are probably gonna wanna up their skills now that they know that the job is not as safe as they thought it was. And immediately moved into launching the product, which incidentally two weeks into the shutdown made almost as much as we would've made in a normal year. And we were all just astonished. Like there is a need here. People are turning to online education and not, not gonna lie. We still sunk into Netflix for quite some time. But just like seeing him kind of lead that charge and be like, all right, well, we're not gonna stay in this fear state forever. We're gonna figure out. And, and if this doesn't go well, uh, we'll figure out our next move from there. Like he never went into that thinking it was gonna be like a normal launch.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (30:45):

Well, and, and I think to your point, it's when we get out of our fear and we see abundance of opportunities.

Angie Colee (30:53):

Oh yes.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (30:54):

And, and so he, he was, he was like, you know what, this is gonna work for me. Not against me. I'm gonna, I see something I can create and intuitively he trusted himself. And he is like, let's try and see what happens. And it sounds like it went incredibly well

Angie Colee (31:12):

There. I mean, and there were stories like that all over the place in entrepreneurship that was happening. I, I know I've told this one on the podcast before, but it bears repeating there's this taco standout in LA that, you know, like they're faced with all of the, this meat going bad all at like, not being able to pay their workers and stuff like that. So they turned it into, I think they wound up selling like taco packs, where it was like four pounds of meat, all the sides. Then they gave you eggs. So you could make the leftovers into breakfast tacos and also here's some toilet paper, like come pay $200 instead of 20 bucks. And they kept themselves and their employees in business. And I was like that, you know, I wanna see some more resilience like that. Some more surrender like that in this world. Okay. I can't control that people can't come into the restaurant. What can I control? Let's go

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (31:56):

Well. And, and I think there's a lot of fear, um, in toxic leadership. And so, um, the fear that we're gonna mess up the fear that we aren't good enough, the fear that kind of, we have to stay the course, all of those. I mean, there's endless amounts of fears. Um, but those that are actually able to pivot and actually try new things without are the ones that end up having a lot more success, because they're willing to, to shift gears and see other opportunities and not stay stuck.

Angie Colee (32:31):

Yeah. Like, I mean, we're not saying to never feel fear. I don't think because fear is inevitable and it's there for a reason. Like it exists by biological design to protect your life. Fear is there for a reason, but you have to be able to step back and recognize when fear is not is controlling you instead of serving you. So like, if you were walking alone, down a dark alley and suddenly find yourself two miles away, your fears served. You just then thank it. Give yourself a big old hug. You protected, you saved my life. But, uh, if you're facing a, oh, I hate this fucking job, you know, I've been having a lot of people ask me to take on side work. I wonder if I could start a business and you're starting to feel like you're in danger. You're not, it's just discomfort. It's not death.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (33:19):

That's true. That's very true.

Angie Colee (33:21):

So that's awesome. Like we've been all over the place, but tell me about, uh, like one last thing before we end. Um, if you could go back in time and tell like new entrepreneur, you give, give her some advice, what do you think that would be?

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (33:37):

Um, it's funny. I know it exactly what it is. Um, and it, and it, and I've, it's funny, cuz I give this advice. I've given this advice the whole time to people, but I wasn't taking it. Um, and it it's own your worth and it's own your value. Um, and as someone who spent 15 years recruiting and 15 years bringing in talent into organizations, kind of, I saw all the numbers, they were all just numbers like, uh, and get confident with your numbers and your values. You're always gonna get no's and truthfully it's not about the numbers. It, it, it, most of the time, it's really not about the numbers. Um, but kind of start with a number that you feel comfortable in versus having the market set it for you. Um, and so I, I went through a journey of auditing and trying to understand the market and doing all these different things. And through, through that whole journey, I just kept on short selling myself because I thought I had to do it like everyone else was doing it. Um, so the simple message is just own your value. Get comfortable on your value today and guess what? The numbers are always gonna change. It, it it's okay if they change, um, the, but just keep consistent on your value, um, because your time and your energy is really your biggest asset.

Angie Colee (35:11):

I love that. Like I even wanna unpack that a little bit more. Cause I think you're speaking to validation. If I like a lot of, and I went through this at the beginning of my entrepreneur journey too, like market rates, right? Market rates aren't a fucking thing. Uh, there's an average of what people are charging you. There's an average of what some people are willing to pay, but there are outliers in every situation and the bell curve exists for a reason. You could be the person presumably way out in front charging so much money that other people are like, wait, what? You can, you can charge that much for this. I mean, yeah, you gotta deliver on the value and your client's gotta, you know, love working with you. So there's some caveats there. You don't just get to go out there and be like $10,000 for a single email, please. Uh, you get to set your rates, you get to decide what you think you're worth and you get to challenge yourself to step up and deliver that kind of value to the people that you work with.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (36:06):

It's that simple.

Angie Colee (36:08):

It is. It's that simple and that hard. Oh, this has been fantastic. I could talk to you about this. Tell me more about where to find you online. Give us linkee all that stuff.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (36:22):

Sure thing. Um, you can find me at www dot VGT people advisory.com.

Angie Colee (36:31):

Fantastic. I'm gonna sure they have a clickable link in the show notes. Thank you again for being on the show. Like I don't even think people are gonna believe that this is the first time we met, but this is the first time we met and it was fucking awesome.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (36:45):

This was unbelievable. I felt like I am immediately. I was like, this is my kind of person. I love it. So thank you, Angie. I'm incredibly grateful for you.

Angie Colee (36:54):

Yay. Thank you so much for being on the show and we will talk soon.

Vivian Garcia-Tunon (36:57):

Take care, have fun in Vegas.

Angie Colee (37:03):

So that is it. Another awesome episode of permission to kick on the books. If you want to know more about the show, if you wanna know more about me Angie Coley and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on a, over to permission to kick ass.com. That is all one word together, permission to kick ass.com, make sure to sign up for my email list so that, you know, whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I'd like to send out a little newsletter called kick Mondays. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm I'm Angie Coley. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it, comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some as.