Angie Colee (00:01):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today. I'm so excited to introduce is, Adam Rosen say hi.

Adam Rosen (00:25):

Angie, how are you doing so good to be here? And, uh, thanks for having me.

Angie Colee (00:28):

Yeah, I'm doing great. I'm excited this weekend. I'm moving to Vegas. I'll be there for six weeks. That should be fun. And I was looking at your time zone. Are you in Hawaii?

Adam Rosen (00:38):

I am. I'm currently in Hawaii. I've been here for a few months and I've been bouncing from time zone to time zone over the past few months and will be throughout this year. So it's, uh, it's, it's always, uh, an interesting scheduling assignment anytime trying to find people in different time zones.

Angie Colee (00:51):

Oh, tell me about it. So you're a digital nomad too. It sounds like I am currently in Arizona and we just, as we're recording this in mid-March we just had daylight saving time change week Arizona doesn't change. So this has been a very confusing week for meetings for me.

Adam Rosen (01:09):

Hawaii doesn't either we, we stay the same. Everyone else changes except for Arizona too. So it's just, I think it's just us two. I think it's Arizona and Hawaii are the only two states that do not change. I think,

Angie Colee (01:18):

I think so. Yeah. Cuz I have a, Wednesday's the only day that I really have a morning meeting, but it's on, it's like 930 east coast time. So today, like I got up and I normally get up at seven and then got the messages, like, are you coming? I like, oh crap. I'm already on Pacific time. Right. Need to learn this. So here you go. Welcome to the joys of being a digital nomad. You never really know what time zone you're in.

Adam Rosen (01:41):

It's true. And you never know what, uh, what time zone anyone else is in too, so it always makes things, uh, interesting. Keeps people on their toes keeps me on my toes as well.

Angie Colee (01:48):

Oh yeah. So tell us a little bit about what you do your business.

Adam Rosen (01:52):

Yeah. So to, to describe what I do now, it probably makes sense to hear a little bit of the backstory. I'll keep it brief though.

Angie Colee (01:58):

Go for it.

Adam Rosen (01:58):

Uh, basically never had a, a real job. I never held a true nine to five. Uh, I did a one year MBA in college where I was running an entrepreneurship program and then three weeks before I graduated me and my two co-founders at the time decided to start what ended up being our first business. Uh, we did that for about five years and, uh, it was basically a platform connecting college student organizations to companies. So our customers were like bank of America, Amazon, AT&T. We had about a hundred thousand student organizations from all across the country. So it was a jobs platform as well as a platform for companies to, uh, get data through surveying of the college students. I did that for five years. Yeah. Did that for five years, we were acquired back in 2019 by a college marketing firm. When, uh, when I say we were acquired though, uh, people assume I moved out to Hawaii, uh, and retired with a mai tai in my hand all day, every day. Um, one of those is true. Sometimes two of those is true, but the retired part, I definitely was not retired at 27. Um, I say that to share that it was not a wild successful exit by any stretch of the imagination. Um, it was a journey filled with as many failures and as many bumps and as many falling flat on my face as I possibly could. Um, so it was five years. Did that, um, moved out to Hawaii, like I said, uh, was advising a lot of startups and entrepreneurs did some real estate work. And then nine months ago I was talking to one of the startup I advised and he said, Hey, do you mind talking to our head of sales? Uh, you know, we're struggling to get meetings on the calendar. I talked to her, I went back to their founder and said, Hey, I can help you get more sales meetings through cold email outreach. He said, sure do it for me. I call my business partner. We put something together for him. It worked well. We got another customer, another customer and another customer. And here we are, nine months are planning to, uh, continue traveling the world, building this virtual business.

Angie Colee (03:43):

That's awesome. And I, I love that because it's just another example of what happened so often on the show that just like by following the steps and saying yes to different things, a whole new business opportunity presents itself. Like I didn't hear anywhere in that story that you were like, so I saw that cold email was a trend and then I decided to like joke. It was just, it happened as the course of over the course of working with somebody that you were already working with. Correct.

Adam Rosen (04:06):

Exactly. Yeah. And the, the biggest problem we had as a tech startup was, and I always encourage every entrepreneur to every small business, every startup to get to product market fit, cuz until you get to product market fit, you're just gonna constantly be plug in the holes of a, a leaky bucket. Uh, that was our biggest problem. That's why we weren't acquired for the amount that we all dreamed and hoped we would be. Um, and like our investors hoped we would be as well because we never could get to those retention numbers you need as a tech startup. But what we were great at was getting on sales meetings and closing a lot of sales meetings and it was all done through cold email, which people always say, cold email doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. And you work they're right. It does not work. If you don't know what you're doing, we had to become good at it in order to survive. Um, so it, it, it was something that came out of necessity. Yes, it was. I did not expect to have a lead generation cold email business. That was certainly not what I thought, but I, I love adding value and I, I love that. I finally feel like I have a business where there is product market fit and now I could do you what I enjoy doing most, which is bringing more customers and bringing more value.

Angie Colee (05:05):

And I have to say like there, there's a difference between people who talk a good game and people who execute a good game. So I, I feel compelled to interject at this point that the whole reason that Adam and I are speaking right now is because he and his team reached out to me via cold email. And I've started getting a lot of pitches on the podcast, but it's clear that people aren't listening. They're just like flinging information at me. This would make a good guest for you. You have no idea what would make a good guest for me. And so yeah, if I may say, I ha without even seeing the rest of your work, I have an inkling that you might know what you talk about cause you my attention.

Adam Rosen (05:44):

Well, thank you. I'm happy I did. And yeah, the, the biggest thing that I always look for and with anything I, because of the tech start up I had in the college student space, we would do, uh, me and my business partner would do, uh, keynotes on gen Z in the future of work. And we always share that gen Zers, they have the attention span of a goldfish. So eight seconds, uh, millennials, I'm a millennial. We ain't much better. We're about 12 seconds. And frankly, because the technology, the attention span for all generations is a steady, not even a steady, it's a steep decline. Um, and the reason why I bring that up is cuz no matter what medium we are going after using cold email as an example, but in no matter what the medium is, you gotta show the other person that you respect their time. You respect them. You value them by getting right to the point. What's the problem you solve. What's the value. And what's the ask, but you gotta get to the point, no bulky paragraphs 12, 15 sentences, four paragraphs. No one's reading that. No one cares enough about you to read it. I hate to break it to you.

Angie Colee (06:38):

Oh yeah. And it's, I consult with a couple of different agencies and I get a lot of writers, uh, reaching out cold, pitching me all the time. And the biggest mistake that I see them doing in their cold outreach emails is just like attacking me overly aggressive with their certifications. Here's all the courses I've taken. And I'm like, I don't give a damn how many you've taken. Show me that you actually get what my agency does and can actually jump in and help without me having to hold your hand for the next six months. Cool. Yeah,

Adam Rosen (07:06):

Exactly. Well, think about even, you know, for you when you, when you meet somebody, right? And, and you're, they're telling you about what they do for work, what their businesses, if they talk to you for five minutes, 10 minutes, they do a big soliloquy, what are you probably gonna do? You're gonna be falling sleep. You're gonna be thinking about what you want to eat. You're gonna be thinking, how the hell do I get outta this conversation? First, if they can pitch their business in 10 or 15 seconds and intrigue you, you're gonna be like, oh, I wanna learn more. I wanna learn more. I wanna learn more.

Angie Colee (07:28):

Yeah. And I'm totally gonna agree with you that, I mean, just your example, not withstanding, I turned to cold email, right? When I left my job and started as a freelance writer and incidentally, the very first cold email that I sent wound up landing me my very first client project. It took awesome a couple months for that to come to fruition. But he was like, okay. So I'm really interested. The email caught my attention. We don't have a need right now, but reach out again on date. And we, I think we're moving in that direction. So I set a calendar reminder and I reached out again on that date and said, Hey, just circling back. You said that you were interested in speaking this date. Let's, let's see if we can make something happen. And we did. I love it.

Adam Rosen (08:10):

Yeah. You, you know how to use it when you know how to use it. It can be an X factor, a great tool in the tool kit. Um, but like with anything, I don't care what type of marketing it is. If you don't know how to do Facebook ads, if you don't know how to do video, if you don't know how to do SEO, it's not like there's just a magic button. You push and it's gonna be successful. You either have to know what you're doing or you gotta work with people that know what they're doing, but there's no magic button. If you don't know what you're doing, obviously the results aren't gonna be there.

Angie Colee (08:33):

Yeah. I, I think that's really interesting too, cuz I know a lot of particularly copywriters. So I work with a lot of sales writers. You've listened to the show. So I presume that you know that, um, of course they, they get really caught up in this idea of I have to close. I have to close. I have to close. And I love what you said because that really highlighted the difference in your approach. I think, which is I gotta start a conversation. I gotta get their attention. It's a totally different frame of mind.

Adam Rosen (08:58):

Yeah. Well I'm forgetting which episode it was. But I remember you talking about just when you're selling, no matter what you're doing, you gotta add value. You gotta be focused on adding value to the other party you're talking to. It's not about just pitching. No one cares enough about me. You anybody, cuz everyone's got their own lives, their own worries, their own fears, concerns, blah, blah, blah. But what can we do to add value? And if they don't want that value that's okay. But we gotta get to that as quickly as possible to respect their time. And frankly, even to respect our own time, like let's just get to the point and stop pitching ourselves more about just, Hey, how can I add value? And if I can't that's okay. Let's both move on.

Angie Colee (09:30):

Oh yeah, that was one of my mentors phrased it as a, he doesn't even like pitch. He's like I'm make offers and I provide value and I'm never even gonna ask for a sale, a sale until I know that I have said enough to help somebody, whether or not they choose to work with me. And that is yeah, that's basically the foundation of my philosophy. Just give, just give, so let's go back a little bit to the tech startup. Cause you told me about something interesting that almost made you give up and I, uh, do you wanna share that story?

Adam Rosen (10:00):

Yep. So there was a few times that were really tough, but I'd say the, the toughest time and, and uh, I'm assuming you're, you're referring to the co-founder incident that we had.

Angie Colee (10:09):

Yeah.

Adam Rosen (10:11):

That's always a juicy one for people. So I've heard people in the startup world or entrepreneur world that's say a well, if you're a co-founder you can't get fired from your own company. And you know, that happens way more often than people realize. And there was a, you know, a time with my startup. We originally had me and two others. There's three of us. And that by our peak, we had five co-founders and it ended with me and one other. So you can imagine what probably happened. Uh, our CTO left at one point. Um, we had another one that we, we parted ways with. And then, uh, another founder that we had to part ways with and there can be some ugly times. Um, even if the people are good and you enjoy working with the people, I hear horror stories all the time with founders and um, for us it was, we had to make the tough decision to part ways with, with one of our business partners. And uh, during that time I was taking probably my first vacation in what felt like forever. Like I used to work like a dog. My life is very different. Now I try to enjoy life and work at the same time, but I used to not be like that. I used to be office 6:00 AM till 8:00 PM, Monday through Saturday, Sunday going late. I go at 9:00 AM and leave that about six or 7:00 PM, but it was literally seven days a week. So I finally took a vacation and uh, I went out to see my father who also lives in Hawaii. And right when I land, I got an email from my business partner saying, Hey, so and so is threatening to pursue legal action. Um, on us long story short after consulting with our, uh, in investors and everybody they're like, yep, unfortunately they're gonna be right. And you're gonna either have to give them their full equity or you'll have to buy them out for a very significant amount of money. And at this point it's like, what's the point? You know, we, we've only vested half of our salary or half of our equity. They're gonna be fully vested. We're gonna be working to make them hopefully a lot of money. This isn't worth it. It's not worth it anymore. Me and my business partner, we had some, we did some digging. We did some digging. We did some digging. We're like, this just does not make sense. So we called our attorney and long story, slightly shorter, basically we were right. And, uh, that individual was wrong. And, uh, we were able to resolve the issue. We were able to part ways, I wish him the best. He's a, you know, a great person. It just wasn't the right fit, uh, for us at the time. But it was the time where it was the one time, my business, where I was like, screw this. It just isn't worth it anymore. But thankfully we've found a solution to it. And we were able to overcome it.

Angie Colee (12:35):

I heard a couple of great things there. I think one of them was just this, first of all, it's like a super whammy, right? I'm I'm taking a vacation, I'm finally unplugging and then shit just went to hell. What, what is even going on? And then hearing from all of your advisors and these people that you respect that like, well, basically you're screwed. So just suck it up. How did you find that? Like the, the wherewithal, the strength to go seek out other options when you've got this like loud resounding message in front of you saying, Nope, you lose.

Adam Rosen (13:09):

Yeah. Well, as, you know, being an entrepreneur part of the prerequisite to be like a real entrepreneur that can do it for a long time is you have to be solution oriented and you have to, you have to be able to hear an answer, digest that answer, but try to find a solution when the problem seems, uh, you know, worth solving or needed to be needing to be solved. Um, and I'm lucky, very, very lucky. I still am lucky my business partner, uh, we've been partner now for seven years, eight years. He's like a brother. We travel together. We're building these businesses together. And, uh, if I didn't have him, I don't know if I would've been able to persevere through it. So one having him there is huge two, I'm a big believer in the George Washington quote, perseverance and spirit have done wonders in all ages. Um, and then number three, I, I love to study success and people that have done amazing things in this world. And the one thing that they all have in common is they've all fell flat on their face and picked themselves back up and, and were able to overcome things that were frankly a hell of a lot tougher than anything I've had to overcome. Um, so those are probably the three things that were able to push me through not just that situation, but everything that I had to go through with when running that startup and frankly, things that come up today.

Angie Colee (14:16):

I know, I thought it was funny that we were talking right before we started recording about how both you and I were frustrated with the sheer volume of entrepreneurs that particularly in podcast seems to attract people that just want us to, to share their overnight success story that took 10 fucking years to get there.

Adam Rosen (14:32):

Exactly.

Angie Colee (14:34):

But the funny thing is, if you hang out with entreprenuers you know, that we're all at the bar telling about all the times we fell flat on our faces, because those are the best stories and they teach you the most like,

Adam Rosen (14:44):

Uh, it's everything, it's the learnings it's it's. But it also why I think it's so important, you know, for podcasts like yours and, uh, just to have these groups for entrepreneurs where they can have these real conversations. Cause the truth is it's really tough to have these conversations with people. So that's why having groups and podcasts do and likeminded people that have fell flat in their face, who had given up everything and took no money to try to build something. And three years, five years, 10 years, however long, building something and failing and having to overcome that where that's, why it's so important towards, uh, podcasts like yours.

Angie Colee (15:21):

There was another thing that you said that I thought was really great. Like I wish him, well, I think he's a great guy that the implicit meaning there that I'm getting at, for everybody listening, being sometimes you can love a person and not work with them. And it's it's okay. It doesn't mean that you're never gonna talk again. It doesn't mean you're gonna burn them to the ground in your raft. Like yeah, there are all kinds of reasons that relationships fall apart, including you outgrow each other, you're moving in different directions. Uh, something changed in somebody's life and this just isn't compatible anymore. But I think like a lot of entrepreneurs I see, especially on the newer end of the spectrum or the growth stage, they'll take this shit so incredibly personally, like, uh, no, and there's hard feelings and yeah, there's a lot of feelings. I don't wanna discount the feelings that come along with something like that. And I imagine that you guys had some pretty strong ones, especially being on vacation.

Adam Rosen (16:17):

Of course. Yeah.

Angie Colee (16:18):

But long term success means that you can't go around burning every bridge that you cross. Like you might need to backtrack across one every once in a while.

Adam Rosen (16:27):

Yeah. And, and the truth is, is that most relationships aren't meant to work out. You know, even if you look at romantic relationships, they're not supposed to work out. And sometimes we have animosity towards another person, but the truth is it's hopefully the next person you find is the right fit. Hopefully the next person that I find is the right fit, but we just weren't meant to work out together. And the same goes for, for that, you know, that business partner is I, again, I think he's sincerely an amazing person. I wish him nothing but the best. Um, but we just weren't meant to be as partners anymore. But again, selfishly, I learned so much from that experience and I'm so grateful that I had that because anything I do in the future, I'll be better off of, because I had to handle that adversity.

Angie Colee (17:04):

Oh yeah. I love it. It's becoming like a theme in my life lately, especially, uh, you know, I've been on other people's podcasts and they've been interviewing me about starting Permission to Kick Ass and, and living on the road. And I'm coming up against this recurring theme. I don't know if this ever happens to you where like you get the same message multiple times in different places. And you're like, oh, universe, you're trying to teach me something. Um, but the theme that keeps recurring for me lately is the best thing was actually the worst thing. And like the worst thing to happen to me. And I know a lot of people are fascinated with how became a digital nomad, which started with a relationship breakup that was unexpected. And you know, at the time that was the worst thing to happen to me in a long time. Like we were getting ready to buy a house together and then everything just turned upside down when we broke up. But it also led to starting this podcast, meeting so many awesome people on the road doing some really cool shit. Like, I don't know how many more years it would've taken for me to get my in a hot air balloon. If I hadn't been on the road, you know, like things that I've always wanted to do are now possible because he and I broke up. And that way, like the worst thing to happen to me was actually the best thing. It, it set me down on a path. I couldn't have imagined without it.

Adam Rosen (18:16):

I love that. Yeah. They say, uh, what is it? The, the teacher will continue to appear until you learn the lesson. So until you're able to overcome that lesson, that teacher, the universe is still gonna smack in the face until they're like, all right, Angie, did you learn this? Or did, do not learn this if you didn't learn it, I'm sorry, but I'm gonna come back to teach you again until you finally overcome that lesson. So I love that

Angie Colee (18:36):

My, my brain immediately started singing that old, the Chumba Wumba song I get back.

Adam Rosen (18:40):

Of course.

Angie Colee (18:41):

I get knocked down, but I get up again.

Adam Rosen (18:44):

Even a good singer there. Well, I was very impressive.

Angie Colee (18:47):

I used to, I had a blues band way back in, in the day. I do miss it, especially since, you know, in COVID times on the road, there isn't even a karaoke bar to indulge in like, mm

Adam Rosen (18:58):

I'm so jealous of people like you that are actually good singers, cuz I would love to just go to a karaoke bar. So I have a podcast too in my podcast. So he's a, I don't wanna say a very famous musician, but he's very, you know, pretty famous, you know, over 500 million streams. He's, that's how I met him, was through his music and he's very talented and he'll go to these, um, he'll go to, uh, you know, just random karaoke spots and he'll just start singing and he's obviously very talented and, and so are you me? I'm the worst. If I start singing in karaoke, every place everyone in that place would either leave or throw bottles at me. Oh. So I I'm envious that you have a good voice and can do that.

Angie Colee (19:30):

You know, to me, karaoke is about how much fun you're having. Cuz I've heard some like really horrible singers that still owned that freaking stage. Like this is American idol and like give me a chance baby. But it's the ones I think that like, you know, they, they aren't confident in their skills and then they kind of like sink down.

Adam Rosen (19:47):

Sure, sure.

Angie Colee (19:48):

Those are the ones that it's like, oh baby, my heart breaks for you. No like just have fun with it. Embrace it.

Adam Rosen (19:54):

Confidence.

Angie Colee (19:55):

Yeah. Right. Well, and I, I really liked something else that you said too, about how all of this taught you a great lesson to make an abrupt segue, like the, the business, uh, partner and you having to part ways and figure out your way around all that you were saying that you learned a lot of legalize, you learned a lot of skills that you might otherwise not have known. And for me, that brought up an interesting thing. I hear with coaching students all the time. Like they don't feel like they can make a move until they know all the things. And like those were things that you didn't even know that you needed to know, you know?

Adam Rosen (20:27):

Yeah. Part of being an entrepreneur again, because the path isn't painted because it's, you have to kind of fit figured out, like sure. There's best practices. There's things that you could do to probably be most successful. But for the most part, we gotta learn on the fly and we're gonna make mistakes. And if you wanna be an entrepreneur, if you want to be a business owner, if you wanna be a business leader, you just have to get comfortable with making mistakes. And uh, frankly, the only way you do get comfortable making mistakes, unless that's just naturally in your DNA. Which for me, I don't, I don't like, doesn't feel even today when I make a mistake, it's like, Ugh, it gives me a little pit in my stomach, but you have to be okay with that pit in your stomach. If you want to be an entrepreneur, because you just don't know all the answers, you're gonna make mistakes. It just inevitable. It's part of the ride.

Angie Colee (21:06):

Yeah. And without great risk, you don't get the great reward. Like you talked about everybody being like, oh, you had an exit and they're picturing, you know, your instant millionaire. Do you wanna talk a little bit more about what that looked like? How the, the reality differed from the fantasy?

Adam Rosen (21:23):

Yeah. Well, I mean my fantasy in the beginning was my thing was I wanted to run the company for ever, you know, IPO or bust. I would say billionaire bust. Like I was such a pup, you know, I was a 22, 23 year old kid starting a company. And just thinking, I knew stuff that I didn't obviously know, um, very fortunate to have great investors that allowed us to make the mistakes that we did. Um, but yeah, I mean that, that was always the dream. And the reality was first of all, how we found the acquiring company. It was someone I had spoken to in the past, but we did cold email outreach to a bunch of potential acquirers. And we had a bunch of conversations and they ended up getting back, you know, a few months after we first sent the email and they ended up being the great ones to, uh, to do it. But for us it was really how do we get as much money back for our investors as possible? How do we make sure that the customers land in a good place? How do we make sure that the students land in a good place and how do we make sure that the company can, uh, prosper and thrive past us? And, uh, thankfully we're able to do, you know, at least parts of all of those. Um, and because of how we handled everything with our investors too, like we still have great relationships with them. And, um, because as we were honest with them from the start, we never, never lied. We never deceived, we never tried to paint a picture that wasn't accurate. I think because of that, they appreciated us. So if there is ever a time where we could work together again, I think they'll be much more open to it. And I think they'd probably be more likely to work with us again because of what we went through. And hopefully next time we can make them, you know, a lot more money.

Angie Colee (22:47):

You know, I love that. You said that because it, it really just highlights the importance of relationships. And I know that that's become kind of a trope in entrepreneurship. It's about your network. It's about your relationships, but it's a trope because it's fucking true guys. Like, and the best part of that relationship too, is that those, like you said, it sounds like the worst thing, but it's actually the best things, the investors and the people that you partnered with got to see you in a bad moment. They got to see how you handle yourself when you're not putting on the polished, shiny exterior and the gloss and, and fooling everybody into thinking it. And I also thought it was important that you told the truth, that it wasn't just about the money. Cause I think that can be hard, especially in this day and age where like the glamor of entrepreneurship, I like we were talking about before the call is, you know, Mercedes and like, I'm not driving a fucking Mercedes, I've got a Kia soul

Adam Rosen (23:39):

And Kia's are reliable. So that's a good thing.

Angie Colee (23:40):

Oh yeah. 18 months on the road. I haven't broken down once just saying, uh, Kia, do you wanna sponsor me?

Adam Rosen (23:48):

Are they a sponsor? Cause if not, you should not be giving them these shoutouts.

Angie Colee (23:50):

I know.

Adam Rosen (23:51):

Too much value for that.

Angie Colee (23:52):

I know. See, well, look at that. Given the, given the value, developing the relationships, they're gonna give me a new Kia. I can feel it.

Adam Rosen (23:59):

I agree. I love it.

Angie Colee (24:00):

But like even when I left my old job, when I got disenchanted with be writing and I decided to start this podcast in this business, I didn't like, you know, fuck this job. I'm outta here. Burn all the bridges. I, I actually, okay, this is how corny I am. I wrote a note to everybody on the team and told them what I enjoyed most about working with them over the last several years and gave them my email address. And so I, I went a little bit above, beyond just here's my email address, keep in touch. And then I screenshotted the results because everybody wrote back and they gave me wonderful compliments. And then I wound up crying and being like, do I really wanna leave and stuff like that. But yeah, it's true. It's about relationships like you, you just can't underestimate the importance of getting to know people. And in fact, I just had a call with somebody the other day who I'm getting to know. And by the end of the call, she goes, I don't know how it's going to happen. I don't know what is going to happen, but we need to work together. We're gonna find a project to work on. And that has been the most pleasant surprise in my business journey. So far just the people like I like you, we're gonna find something

Adam Rosen (25:04):

Exactly. It's, it's good people, people when you've been through that ringer, you can relate to it and you can understand it. And then when you do find people that have been through that in are trustworthy, uh, you wanna find ways to work together. You wanna find ways to find mutual value.

Angie Colee (25:17):

That's awesome. All right. So abrupt segue, let's go back into the current business. So you said about nine months that you've been working on this cold email. So tell me, tell me me a little bit about what business is like and what you're excited about as this company grows.

Adam Rosen (25:32):

Biggest thing that I'm excited about right now is how can we create, uh, a successful business from anywhere in the world with workers from all over the world. Um, and that's the big focus right now because we didn't do a great job of my tech startup of building systems and hiring and managing employees and getting the most outta those employees. We did not do a good job of that. Now the focus is how do we continue to build systems in every single area of this business to make sure that this thing can run without us, to make sure that our employees can be successful, that it can grow and that we can focus on what we do best to get this business, to whatever level we want, whether that's, uh, selling the business, whether or that's growing the business to a, you know, a big, a big number, whatever that means to us, or if that means, Hey, let's keep this. As you know, let's put it as a side hustle, let's focus on something else. I want to be able to have that decision. But the only way to do that is by number one, adding a lot of value, but two having a great foundation, you have a great foundation by creating repeatable, scalable, smart systems.

Angie Colee (26:28):

I think it's brilliant that you said that because, uh, I know I work, I coach a lot of folks that are freelancers or consultants and they're looking to grow and scale their business. And one of the things that most of them aren't even thinking about, and I know, I didn't think about in my early days as a freelancer was how do you replace yourself in this business? You have to, and not just because eventually you would like to retire and do things that are actually fun to you and not like work yourself into the ground in the business. Like you hired yourself to be an employee I've been there and done that with my own business. Um, but what if something happens to you and you're not actually to execute anymore, the business fails. The people that are depending on it are, is gone. And so you have to, at a certain point, you know, obviously when you've leveled off your income and you've gotten some stability, then the long term planning is a necessity. How do I systematize this? How do I bring in people? How do I build in redundancies that will keep this thing going? You know? Um, one great example is that, uh, my client that I've been working with for a long term, Chris Orzechowski, he has an agency. And right after we started working together, the breakup happens and I wrote to him right away and I was like, look, this is what happened. I just, I, I don't know I'm in a state. I, I can't guarantee that I'm gonna be able to produce it any level. And I'm sorry to disappoint you. And he goes, no, actually you're not disappointing me at all. Which made a world of difference to me to have his support. He goes, you showed me that I have a flaw in my system and I don't have this built in a way right now to support someone being out long term. So now I need to think about how I've built my company and make sure that I've, that space built in so that I don't have to put pressure on people that are dealing with some hard shit.

Adam Rosen (28:09):

Wow. Wow. That, I mean, that's, that's just even a good way of like, for him, he took the personal responsibility of not being like, Angie, how you doing this to me? I don't care. What's going on. You gotta produce versus like, man, I gotta create better systems in place so that when this inevitably happens in the future, again, I'm ready to handle it. That that's pretty cool.

Angie Colee (28:25):

That's that relationship first approach in action. I think like, not just, well, look, your life just got turned upside down, but what about me? It's oh shit, your life got turned upside down. And I know that this is inconvenient for me, but like this too shall pass. And because I had his support, like, I can't even tell you, I can even imagine how the, the difference in processing it would've made if he had come down on the other side of that coin, but we've worked together for so long in different iterations. That it, again, it was just like, oh man, I'm so sorry that that's happening to you. Or let me know what you need, do what you can just keep in touch and we'll figure something out. And then sure enough, just going into work with him. And the team was something to look forward to every day and helped get me through the worst of it. So

Adam Rosen (29:11):

Well, it's also, you were honest, you know, like you, you, you could have handled it two, one of two ways. One is the way you handled it. But two, you also very easily could have been like, I'm gonna keep working. I'm gonna keep getting paid. And I'm just gonna produce at 30% of what I can normally produce and still collected your paycheck. And I'm sure part of what, what he really respected of you is that you said, Hey, here's where I'm at. I, I'm not gonna be able to produce right now. Let's figure out a solution for it.

Angie Colee (29:36):

I've definitely done that in the past where I tried to hide it and just kind of bury myself in the work. But I had like, it's my go-to now something crappy just happens. I just, I'm gonna let you know that this is where I'm at. Here's how I'm working on things. And I'll just keep you updated, like you and I talked about how I just finished recording the first podcast, like rerecording, an episode that I lost, cuz my computer crashed. And, and when my computer or crashed, there's a, there's a fun symmetry to this story. I'll get to it in a very circuitous manner. But my computer crashed. And the first thing that I did was get on my phone and tell my clients, my computer crashed. I'm gonna do my best, but there's a snowstorm in Santa Fe. I don't know when I'm gonna be back up and running, but you know, I'm here ping me if you need me and I'll figure out a way to get it done. Um, and then I took the afternoon off, ultimately figured out the computer thing and it was fine. The cool thing was, so I'm in the process of hiring a VA right now, a new VA. One of the questions that I built in for my VA was like, you're on a deadline and your computer crashes, what do you do first? And to me, there was only one, right. Answer, contact me and tell me that your computer crashed. And I got some interesting answers from people that were like, oh, I'd borrow a computer from my friend down the street and I would do this and I would do that. And I was like, call me, tell me what's up so that I can make preparations. I can move deadlines and things like that. But yeah, that's, that's the interesting symmetry.

Adam Rosen (30:58):

I love that. No, it is true. And that's, it's just, again, is being radically, its parent, it's being honest and it's just being forthright. When you do that, people we are forgiving, human humans are forgiving people for the most part. Like we, especially for something light like that, we would rather, at least for me. And I'm sure you agree and I'm sure most people, if not everybody listening to this would agree. I'd rather tell me what's going on and be, I'd rather tell me what's going on and be honest versus just try to get away without a side without telling me if you're honest with me, I can forgive. If you try to go a background with me, then it's gonna be a lot, lot, lot worse.

Angie Colee (31:30):

Oh yeah. And I mean, this happened too, cause I'm in the process of rebuilding one of my websites. Uh, and I, I got that copy to my web guy. I wanna say like a week or a week or week or two ago. And I didn't hear from him. So I just circled back today. And again, it's the not like taking a offense or assuming he's dropping the ball or trying to screw me over. It's the relationship first. So I just checked in with checking in to make sure that you got this. Do you need anything else from me? How's it going? Just, just keep me updated.

Adam Rosen (31:54):

Exactly.

Angie Colee (31:55):

I heard back from him within two minutes and you know, he told me without he's going through a personal situation and didn't realize that like it, in his minds, he had replied to me, but didn't realize that he hadn't replied to me. And so like, I can only imagine the damage I would've done if I had come in scorched earth, like bro, what the fuck? Where's my website. Where'd you go? Right? Yeah.

Adam Rosen (32:19):

Most things are just a simple misunderstanding where when we go into attack mode though, then it puts, then the, a guard comes up and then we never get to the real solution where sometimes it just takes, Hey, just sending a quick follow up here, making sure that you receive this or Hey, is everything okay? But instead of being like attack, where is this? Where is this? Where is this? Cause we don't know what's on the other side of it too. We don't know what they're going through. We don't know what's happening with them. And usually it's an honest mistake. Um, now if it becomes a repetitive thing where it constantly is happening, constantly is happening, constantly is happening then of course need to address that. Uh, but yeah, just it's like one of just the basic fundamental rules, just treat people how you'd wanna be treated. Just be nice. And typically you're gonna get the results that you want. Be honest typically you're the results that you want, if you don't that's okay. Then you have to make the decision after that happens. But yeah, I, I would always rather lead with kindness, lead with empathy, lead with openness versus leading, with attacking.

Angie Colee (33:09):

Yeah. I, I think that that's really brilliant just because it doesn't take any extra effort to be kind like, why do we convince ourselves the at like being mean or being demanding or being entitled is so much easier than reaching out and being like, Hey, are you okay? This is out of the norm for you. It's it's not like you to go radio silent. I'm concerned. Are you okay? Versus like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Why did you go away? Why did you disappear? You're letting me down. I think they know that you're letting that they're letting you down. And there's almost a magic that happens when you acknowledge that and just get it outta the way, like, okay, something happens. I'm aware of it. Can we just reconnect and figure out how to get this going forward again? Hmm,

Adam Rosen (33:55):

Exactly. It's it's simple, but it, I can, I think it could be very, very, very, uh, important. And for us all, my it's a daily reminder for myself too, cuz sometimes I don't do a great job of that either.

Angie Colee (34:05):

It's always a practice. It's always a practice. And like we're talking about this at a high level, but each of us is easily talking about five, 10 years of hard experience and making mistakes and learning all of these lessons by, you know, I, I joke with some of my students, uh, is bashing your head against that wall. Uh, opening any doors for you. You might, you might try actually moving down the wall a little bit and opening the actual door instead of trying to create one with your face.

Adam Rosen (34:32):

Exactly. Exactly.

Angie Colee (34:35):

Oh man, this has been an amazing conversation. Uh, tell us a little bit more about your business and where to learn about you.

Adam Rosen (34:41):

Yeah. So if you wanna learn more, basically what we do is we, we book sales appointments for primarily for startups. So we, we send cold emails and we put the meetings on their calendar so they could do what they do best, which is hopefully closing new business. So if you wanna learn more, the company is email outreach company. The website is EOC works.com. My email is Adam EOC works.com and for what I connected me on Instagram, that's where I'm most active it's uh, at Adam I Rosen. So a D M I R O S E N.

Angie Colee (35:09):

Awesome. I'm gonna make sure that they have clickable links in all of the show notes and we're, you know, I think we're gonna have to do a follow up like in a couple months, see where everybody's at with the business and just keep pontificating on all this. It's been fantastic.

Adam Rosen (35:22):

I love it. Let's do it now. Angie, I appreciate you having me on, I, I love the work that you're doing. So keep up the great work and yeah, thanks for having me on.

Angie Colee (35:32):

So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permissiontokickass.com. That is all one word together, permissiontokickass.com. Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.