Angie Colee (00:02):

Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass. A podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. And welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my new friend - Brook McCarthy. Say hi, Brook.

Brook McCarthy (00:25):

Hello.

Angie Colee (00:26):

Tell us a little bit more about who you are and what you do, Brook.

Brook McCarthy (00:29):

Sure. I am a business coach. Please don't hold that against me, Angie. I'm also a digital marketing trainer, but I started life as a freelance copywriter and digital marketer. I called myself a digital marketer because it was 2008 and no one really knew anything about the internet back then. It was the olden days of the internet. And I had had some experience on the internet. So I thought, well, me and Google can figure it out. And that's what we did.

Angie Colee (01:04):

I love that. Okay. I think that that's so smart that we're just starting with the compliments right off the bat. I hope you don't mind. I think it's so useful. Like me and Google can figure it out. Okay. Newsflash, for those of you that are out there going, oh my God, where do I start? With a Google search, my friends. You can find any number of solutions. Just pick one that feels good and go. I promise nobody else knows that you don't know what you're talking about. Google an answer and make it work. Um, I love that. Like you've been in digital marketing for a long time. Um, I've been in digital marketing for a long time. We have this shared background as a copywriter, which for, if you're new to the show and you haven't heard me rant about copywriters before, here's my little disclaimer, spiel. Uh, we are sales writers. And so we may throw around a little bit of marketing and sales and conversion jargon and stuff like this, but it's all good stuff to know for you in your business, because you're going to have to communicate with people, uh, because you need people, even if you don't like people. So there you go. There's a little

Brook McCarthy (02:04):

People need people.

Angie Colee (02:07):

I love it. We're gonna sing! So we were talking a little bit before the call about how you got started, which you said was an interesting origin story. So let us, let us have it

Brook McCarthy (02:22):

Look, I think it, I thought it was an unusual origin story, but the more I speak to people in self-employment, the more I realize how common it is that people start businesses. They start self-employment for negative reasons because the internet is full of 20 something year olds who decide that they're going to quit their jobs and stop working for the man. And they're going to find their freedom. One of my favorite propaganda lines, and that's dripping with sarcasm, by the way, in case I didn't come across, it's the whole, I'm going to be paid for being me. Some schmuck decided that, that was a smart line. And started pushing this, I'm going to be paid for being self-expressed. I just needed to be more of myself and people will be lining up to throw money at me, which I just find bizarre-o, you know? And I keep looking at it from a different angle thinking maybe they mean it like this. No, I mean, it's kind of attractive. I can see the appeal, but no one's really ever paid me, you know, for being me. But yeah. So back to, you know, why people start freelancing and start their own businesses. I took a sideways step, um, from one job or career into another. So my dad was a journalist. Um, when I was young, I won a couple of writing competitions, short story, competition competition. And I, yeah, I wanted to be Jack Kerouac. I went looking for, you know, misadventures so that I could write about them because my family was pretty middle-class and I ended up in public relations. That was my default career. You know what I mean? By default career? Your fallback?

Angie Colee (04:08):

Like you kind of fall into it. Yeah.

Brook McCarthy (04:10):

Like the easy the easy fallback career. So eventually I thought, okay, well, um, this has been fun and this is really where I got, I, I was paid for writing for the first time. And it's also where I was paid for, you know, where I started exploring the internet. Cause I was doing online communications on behalf of a client. So for all of those reasons, the more I'm grateful for, for PR, but I wasn't my heart wasn't in it. And I wanted to be a journalist. I wanted to be a writer. So I applied for a job as a writer and it was a $15,000 pay cut, which was pretty significant when you're earning peanuts. Um, and yeah, it was supposed to kind of solve all my problems and it turned out to be the job from hell. I, I tried really hard and failed to get on with the boss and it was a small business. It was privately owned business. So she managed me out in this excruciating process, protracted process that put my self esteem through the ringer. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about?

Angie Colee (05:20):

Absolutely.

Brook McCarthy (05:21):

Yeah. I found myself gainfully unemployed. And I just thought, you know, the funny thing is that she gave me the idea cause I did have vague, you know, I was pretty young. I was only 28 and I did have vague ideas of working for myself. I, you know, I was an independent capable can do kind of person. And I'd actually, I'd been working as a tour leader for two years in Southeast Asia, which basically means you have a credit card and a budget. And that's like, and I'm crossing borders at the ripe old age of 22. You know, I was crossing international borders and bribing immigration officials and, you know, negotiating with bus drivers when the roads, you know, washed away in the monsoon, um, dealing with, you know, all manner of freakouts by customers, they're just coming on a normal trip and then they realize, oh wow, this country is very behind.

Angie Colee (06:25):

We're going to dig into that for sure. Cause that you just threw out something that I was like, oh my God, that's fascinating. I'll circle back to something that you said real quick and highlight it. Um, the negative reasons to quit and this idea of I can get paid to be me. And like, I just want to clarify, like I think if you want to get paid to be you great, but figure out a way to make it valuable for other people. Because like when you turn it to all about me, the world is not interested in you, sweetheart. Like, unless you're a Kardashian and you already had money and you get to spend a ton of money, getting people interested in you and then you get to be paid. Like they paid to play a lot of those people. So let's just be clear there you can be paid to be you after you spend a shit ton of money getting in front of a lot of people and making sure that your name is said over and over again to where people actually pay attention to you. But like, yeah,

Brook McCarthy (07:19):

Absolutely. And you know, I think there is a nugget of truth there in so far as, um, you know, I am super passionate and keen on, uh, putting more of yourself in your business and understanding what your strengths are playing to your strengths, putting more of your personality and your business. I asked people about their music tastes in my client intake forms. I asked them if they're a cat or a dog person, you know, I'm deliberately trying to repel people in my marketing because yes

Angie Colee (07:54):

I love that because especially like behind you, I'm looking at the picture of the queen with the David Bowie lightening across her face, which I thought was great. And of course, nobody gets to see this video with my "Fresh out of fucks" plaque right behind me. Um, but I think that's like, that's a way that you can get paid to be you by providing a valuable service to others while being yourself within your business. But like just straight up going out into the world and being like, I'm interesting. Give me money. What are you smoking?

Brook McCarthy (08:25):

And you know, I think maybe some of that kind of aspirational stuff works when times are good and everybody's rolling in cash, but during like an epidemic or a financial downturn, when people, you know, they get insecure, they get frightened, they stopped spending money on things that aren't strictly necessary. Like there needs to be more of a compelling reason for them to open up their wallets. Then, you know, then trying to get paid because you've got pink hair or whatever. And people want to be around people with pink hair is, you know, a hell of a lot harder. You really need to, you need to hone in on the value that you're exchanging.

Angie Colee (09:06):

Absolutely. And I thought it was funny that you mentioned like you wanted to be Jack Kerouac because of, okay, here. Here's my guilty little secret. I wanted to be Shonda Rhimes. I don't know if you know who she is. She's a show creator and show writer. And I was in LA for awhile, like actively trying to be a show creator. And then I got laid off and I fell into copywriting. So

Brook McCarthy (09:25):

Yeah. Well, I mean back to, you know, people start businesses for negative reasons. I hear this variations of this story all the time. People tell me, you know, the reason they start a business and I've worked with a lot of women. Um, and it's often a negative reason. They've had one baby, two baby, three baby four or whatever, and gone just a second. Two people with full-time jobs. Two parents with full-time jobs is completely incompatible with, you know, having, having young kids or they get bullied in the workplace or perhaps they get to a certain age that they become far less desirable. Um, maybe they have a special particular skillset and experience and they want to do something specific with it and there's just no jobs for it. So they have to invent their own. There's a variety of reasons. And most of them aren't, you know, oh, I just want to vacation around the world and be a digital nomad and live the dream.

Angie Colee (10:23):

Like I am a digital nomad, but. To give a quick overview of the story. Like I was getting ready to quit my job, move in with my partner in our new house and start this podcast and start the new evolution of my business gave notice at my job. Six days later, my partner says, I don't love you the way you love me. I think we should break it off the next day he starts moving out and then I got to figure out what to, I had all these plans to start my business and grow the podcast and stuff like that. I took that as a sign from the universe. Like sometimes you need a great big old kick in the pants to do things differently and stop coasting. Um, and I think, you know, to tie that into what you were saying about like negative reasons, part of the reason that I left my, I was a full-time copy chief and running teams and a copywriter was just, I fell out of love with doing that and I needed to do something different. And then that breakup happened and it was kind of like, oh yes, something different has to happen. Like now you don't have any more options.

Brook McCarthy (11:26):

Absolutely. Yeah, my God.

Angie Colee (11:30):

Well, and I, I mean, I think there are good reasons to leave a business too, but it winds up being more often. Cause you know, cause I work with a lot of newer entrepreneurs too. I think the negative one is easier to leave for if that makes sense. Like

Brook McCarthy (11:44):

It's absolutely. I think, you know, that kind of comes to the crux of, of conversion copywriting. If we're going to pull it back into copy writing, but you know, people are more motivated to get away from negative situations than they are to move towards positive situations. And I think that absolutely that, that is the case with, you know, big life decisions for sure. Um, you know, and even getting that, uh, getting that tour lead job, you know, I had, I had such a shitty time. I was just like I need to, I need to go overseas and I need to get paid to stay away. I'm like, how do I get a job where I'm paid to travel? And my cousin gave me this job ad and that was the job.

Angie Colee (12:30):

Oh, that's interesting. Well, and that was a nice segue too. Cause I wanted to dig a little bit more into like how you found yourself being a tour guide haggling with bus drivers. Tell me more about that. I want to hear about that.

Brook McCarthy (12:44):

These are, you know, these are skills that I continue to use absolutely every single day in my business, because I think regardless of the technical part of what you do, so let's pretend you're a painter. So let's pretend you're an artist and, and you do beautiful artworks and people buy them and whatever still at the heart of every single business is communication skills. And I really think that the better you are at communicating the better you are at life. Um, and you know, I've been doing this for decades now and I've been a professional communicator and on a good day, I'm like, no, I'm okay. I'm more right, because so much of it's outside of your control. So, you know, that's a, that's a huge part of it. And, and this job was really, um, meeting people in Bangkok, for example, or Saigon in Vietnam and having to, you know, create a first impression, a good first impression, which I wasn't always great at. And I often, you know, one thing I remember very vividly is I, I remember thinking, oh, I did a great job. I really nailed that first meeting. And then, you know, two weeks later I'm on an elephant in, you know, wherever we were Thailand or Lao or whatever. And I'm talking to one of the passengers who I really liked, I'd developed, you know, I thought this guy's, you know, this is, this is my guy, this is my kind of person. And he said something to me about what a terrible first impression I'd given at the dinner. And I was like, oh, in my mind, that went really, really well. And I totally nailed it. And you know, and here was somebody whose opinion, I respected two weeks later who was like, No, you got it wrong. So, um,

Angie Colee (14:29):

Did he at least give like helpful feedback?

Brook McCarthy (14:33):

Yeah. I think he did say how plus things, he did say a couple of things, but you know, it was, it was an, it was a really steep learning curve, not least of which was because I was traveling in third world countries that I didn't know that well dealing with local suppliers, local people, you know, and both of these countries were actually, um, uh, war-torn countries as well. So Vietnam and Cambodia, especially Cambodia, you know, it's a country that I think the whole nation is suffering from post-traumatic stress, you know? And, and I think I was a bit shell shocked too, because I'd had a big misadventure, you know, which had led me into, to relating. So I think me and Cambodia were an interesting pair.

Angie Colee (15:18):

I find it funny that life like seems to put you where you need to be, to learn what you need to learn. I'm not a very woo person, but when I look back on my life at all the things that I thought were like drastic, left turns that came out of nowhere, it was like, oh no, I see how that led to that. And what I picked up from that, that led me here, like So crazy.

Brook McCarthy (15:42):

Absolutely. For sure. Absolutely. So, yeah, that was like just a fabulous, um, learning curve in communication, intercultural communication, dealing with difficult situations. Like there will always curve balls. There was constantly, you know, things that went wrong, anything that could go wrong would go wrong. Um, and, and learning how to blag and how to look confident and how to act confident and how to be resourceful. Like I think looking confident, acting confident and being resourceful are like central to self employment. You know? Absolutely crucial.

Angie Colee (16:20):

Which is funny. Cause like I've been talking a lot about with, with one of my groups of friends about something called inner authority, which just like really resonated with me. And I think a lot of people mistake it for confidence and a lot of people therefore like wait to take action until they feel confident. And if you're waiting to feel confident, waiting to feel ready, it's probably never going to happen. Uh, the secret is that most of us feel scared and then do the damn thing anyway.

Brook McCarthy (16:51):

You know, we have so many weird misconceptions about confidence. You know, I treated as an action because yes, it is a feeling, but you can't afford, you know, to not feel confident when you're self-employed you have to get on with it because if you sit at your desk and go, oh, I'll wait, I'll wait, I'll wait, I'll wait. You know, nothing will happen. And you'll be there. You know, eating bloody water and dust for dinner, you gotta get out there and you've got to blag a little and you've got to act confident in order to get, to acrrue the experience that's going to actually give you the legitimate feelings of confidence, but you know, waiting until you feel, you know, the amount of times in that job where I just wanted to die, you know, where I'd be hung over, I'd have to walk down, have 20 eyeballs looking at me, trying to figure out what she wearing today or what she do. How does she look today? You know? And I just want to throw things at them, give me a coffee and leave me alone and don't make me smile and then do small talk. Um, you know, you just have to get on with it. And I think that's kind of crucial. Yeah, absolutely.

Angie Colee (17:55):

And you have to make mistakes and kind of put yourself into those uncomfortable situations because sometimes that's really the only way to learn. Like I love that you, you talked about getting thrown into having to learn communication skills because I think that's something we don't talk about enough in entrepreneurship that it's not just being good at your thing. Whether that's like making music or baking cakes or writing copy, whatever you're good at is only one piece of the equation. Communication is probably close to half of it. And I see in so many like writer groups, and this drives me nuts. Okay. Here's my little soap box rant. Um, if you think all clients suck and clients are the enemy, uh, you don't have a business and you're not going to be in business for very long. They don't all suck. They really don't. I have clients that I've worked with for a short time clients I've worked with for a long time and they are amazing people. I would go to dinner with them, sit down and have beer with, I would ride roller coasters. They're awesome people. Yeah, it didn't just fall out that way. I've done a lot of work on my communication skills and I've gotten really good at taking, taking the first step in an uncomfortable conversation. I don't let it get to the point where I'm in a Facebook group with the Pitchfork mob bitching about all my clients suck. Are they trying to take advantage of me? And we all have that experience. So I'm not trying to like shit on you if you're going through a rough experience with a client, it happens. But nine times out of 10, in my experience, when you're having a lot of hurt feelings and really struggling with the client, there's a communication breakdown somewhere. A mismatch of expectations. Somebody wasn't talking to somebody else, somebody made some assumption somewhere that proved incorrect and everybody's got their feelings hurt. And then rather than coming to somebody and saying, Hey, I'm really disappointed. How do we fix this? Everybody goes off to their corner of the internet, gripes about everybody else gets even more in their feelings and then it blows up. Oh, so frustrating.

Brook McCarthy (19:52):

And I I'll tell you what, none of us, they said skills, you know, I'm a bit of a self-employment geek, Angie like a half to say, I'm one of those people that think that self-employment will save the world. And it's the future of working. And regardless of whether or not you intend to have a job and you want to have a job and you're comfortable with a job. I still think a side gig is really, really useful. And one of the reasons is that it forces all these things that you could actively avoid for the rest of your life, including the art of having a difficult conversation and you know, the ability or the willingness to go towards the awkward and towards the uncomfortable and to, you know, to realize that you're not going to die because you know, things are a little bit odd with something. So you know, that, that the skills we learn and self-employment, I reckon are life skills and they are so applicable in so many different areas.

Angie Colee (20:50):

Yes, absolutely. And I I've 5000% agree with you that even if you don't want to be like full time, look, I understand that it's different situations for different people at different times in your life. You may feel more comfortable with the job you may need to be secure. It's all good. It's not shitting on jobs. I just want to point out that the only person that you can depend on at the end of the day is you. And if that job goes away, because they've got an obligation to protect their business, not take care of you, then who do you depend on? That job's gone. You gotta be able to get yourself back up and get. And so like, I totally agree with you. I think that that's the future of work and that if you want to have any semblance of control over your life, how close you get to your dreams, what you get to do, uh, you absolutely got to have some sort of side hustle, if not go full-time, self-employed. Absolutely.

Brook McCarthy (21:43):

You know, I, I have a lot of respect for people that have side hustles. I never had a side hustle. I jumped straight in. I look at people that have jobs and a side hustle. And I think, Shit that looks exhausting. I teach people how to start side hustle. So, you know, in the training that I do, I run courses face-to-face and online, and I teach people how to start businesses and how to start side hustles. And I can almost, you know, at the risk of sounding a little arrogant, I could almost tell right off the bat, if somebody is going to make it or not. And it has nothing to do with their experience and their hard skills and everything to do with their attitude. And you know, whether or not they, one of those people who are, you know, I can figure it out. It'll be fine. Should be right, mate. You know, I've got the resources. If I don't know what I need, I'll, I'll, I'll go and Google versus the people who are like, you can see that, you know, things get really real for them because when I'm teaching how to start a business and how to start a side business, the homework is go and start a business and find someone who will pay you for your goods or services. And people have this panic look in their eyes. And then often, you know, not often, but I'll have people at the end of the course, come to me and say, you know, what book should I get from the library? You know? And it's like, oh dude, were you paying attention? I said, in the very first session is 99% practice. And 1% theory, you know? And he's like, "If only I had the book, you know, my fear would go away." These people ain't ever gonna make it. And you just, you can tell because the attitude is all back to front, they're waiting for direction. They're waiting for signposts. They're waiting for the rule book. They're waiting for the guidelines. They want to be told and taught exactly what to do and what not to do.

Angie Colee (23:36):

Hey, guys! That's an employee. That's exactly what an employee does.

Brook McCarthy (23:42):

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this ability to make it up as you along like, it just, it fills me with joy because I was the kid who, you know, I was the teenager. Maybe I was a little bit more biddable, um, when I was younger. But when I was a teenager, you know, I was the smart ass. I was the person that sat in the back of the room and made, you know, barbarous jokes or what I thought were funny at other people's expenses.

Angie Colee (24:09):

Over here nodding, going yup.

Brook McCarthy (24:11):

Heckled the teacher, you know, and did religious studies. That was my major. And then I went on and did religious studies at uni, like with an arts degree, I think they call it liberal arts in the states. You've got to make it up as you go along, there's no job waiting for you. There's no career path you're on your own.

Angie Colee (24:31):

Like I've had writers in the past that were like, what, what degrees should I get? I'm like, first of all, don't get a degree. If you want to be a copywriter, just like how much writing are you doing? Are you writing? Well, haven't been paid to write yet. There's your problem right there. You need to start writing. I don't care if it's a blog just for you. I don't care if it's a diary that you write in every day that nobody sees, but you, but like, if you want to be a writer and eventually get paid for it, you need to be writing consistently.

Brook McCarthy (24:55):

Yeah, absolutely. And that's one of the reasons I actually moved out of copywriting because I love writing, but it was sapping my joy for it. And I actually specialize for the first seven years in alternative health and yoga and I was being paid to write about meditation. I was a newly qualified yoga teacher being paid to write about yoga. I was like, I've hit the bloody jackpot here. I can't believe people are paying me to write all this stuff. And yet, and yet still I kind of got to the end of it. And I thought, if I have to write another God damn article on yoga or meditation, I'm just going to scream. And I love writing. I love blogging. You know, I'll happily write free articles on things that I'm interested in, but you know, it sucks the joy out of me when I need to kind of keep writing the same thing at the client's direction.

Angie Colee (25:53):

Absolutely. And it's like, that's why, I'm glad you brought that up because I think we also, from outside business building have this impression that like, once you figure it out, it's all great. No, because once you figure it out, you could be coasting along a little while happy. Like, oh my God, I can't believe people pay me to do this and then hit that wall of, I don't want to do this anymore now. What's that? I know more people that have pivoted as entrepreneurs completely change. I have a friend who started as a writer and now has a cheese business. I have another friend who started as a writer and is now a life coach. I started as a writer and now I am an I'm a confidence coach and a podcast host. Like we all get to a point in that career. Even if there are periods of extreme joy where it's like, I don't want to write about this anymore. I don't want to do it. Yeah. I'd rather tell stupid stories about my travels with like the lady that was shrieking, uh, Bohemian Rhapsody on a random Tuesday night. Cause she was drunk. Those are the stories that I want to write now. Like I don't want to write big, long sales pages about this course and the next internet marketing.

Brook McCarthy (26:57):

Yeah, absolutely. For sure. Absolutely.

Angie Colee (27:02):

Uh, and I think that's, that's great. Just talking about, so you were in that sweet spot where you got to write about the thing that you loved and then you hit that wall. Is that what led you to becoming the business coach that you are? Or was there a step in between there or what?

Brook McCarthy (27:19):

It kind of happened concurrently? So I, I started, um, well, funny, funny story, Angie. I was working from home have always worked from home. My partner is also self-employed we borrowed a million dollars from the bank in order to buy this house in Sydney, because you've got to sell your kidney to live in Sydney, to own a property in Sydney. And we had two babies or rather I did in fairly quick session. Baby number two was a woopsie. And, um, it was all chaos all the time. There was vomit down the whole way that stayed there because none of us had time to clean it up. And every time, every time the phone rang there'd be this, like you take the baby, no you take the baby. You gotta take the baby. I gotta get this phone call. It was just hugely, hugely stressful. And our friends kept saying, "Oh, you guys are living the dream. Look at you. You know, you, you both working from home with your babies." And I was like, kill me now, I'm dying. And I just started, um, I started fantasizing about standing on a stage and I started fantasizing about somebody calling me and saying "Brook. I've put this group of people. I was wondering if you could teach them? Hey Brook, could you come and talk to my group of people?" And the second that became more obvious that that was my fantasy. I booked a flight to Melbourne and I booked a venue and I started teaching and it was, it started off as a way to basically legitimately run away from my babies. I was dying. Oh, seriously dying. And um, you know, it, that's where it began really. And I traveled all around Australia. I've taught all over Australia and all the magic capital cities. Um, and yeah, and then somebody at one of the courses in Brisbane said to me, "do you do this one-to-one? Could you give me one-to-one help?" And I'm like, sure, I guess so. Yep. And that's pretty much it. That's how I started coaching. Um, and that's what I've continued to do. I just kind of follow my curiosity. And I think if you follow your curiosity and you do so with, you know, a view to, will people pay for this, is this something people will pay for, then I think you can't go wrong.

Angie Colee (29:31):

I love that too. Especially the, the thing that really stuck out to me about what you said was approach it with curiosity, follow the curiosity. I think that's brilliant because so many people, I think approach business, like do or die, succeed, or fail and it like, no it's it's do and then figure it out on the fly. And I think kind of circling back to what you said about the people that, you know, are gonna make it. I think the ones that make it have this attitude of experimentation, like, Hmm. That seems like something I want to try. Okay. Let me figure out how to do that. And we'll just see what happens. And so I love that you tell that with your story about like, well, I have this vision of me on stage, so what do I, okay, I'm going to go book a venue. I'm going to have a class, let me see you. And then you just like followed that curiosity. Exactly. Wound up where you are. Like sometimes you can't start with the end in mind because you don't even know what the end looks like.

Brook McCarthy (30:30):

Yeah. And oftentimes we like the idea of a thing, you know, and well, as I experienced, you know, the idea of the thing is very different from the actual thing and you, you get the experience and go, okay, well, that's done, I can cross that off my list cause that was shit. And the next thing now, um, you know, and at the moment, like following the curiosity, you know, at the moment I'm really interested in facilitation and that's like the next step beyond training. I did some facilitation training yesterday or maybe the day before. And the guy the trainer made this point, he said, facilitation is just a really good conversation about what are the elements of a really good conversation and how can you bring that to the fore? And I'm like, oh my God, this is like heaven to me because you know, like conversation is my, my joy, my absolute joy and the art of good conversation and the artist storytelling. And you know, when you're at a party and there's a little crowd forms around somebody and everybody's leaning in and they're laughing and you kind of, you drawn towards it and you're thinking, what, what, what, what, you know, the opposite. Like my, my dad's a terrible storyteller, great writer, terrible storyteller. Everybody's leaning out, you know, and they're kind of excusing themselves to go and get a drink. Cause you know, he just doesn't know how to hold people. Um, you know, I think facilitation is just fascinating and having done, you know, my training is moving more towards facilitation and having paid before for this is a great example, Angie, you know, client calls up says, Hey Brook, um, you know, I was hoping that we could talk about the future of our industry. Do you think you could help? And I'll get my, my, my clients, my staff together. And I'm like, Hmm sure. I dunno how to, I've never done this before, but yeah, I could give it a, give it a go, you know? And then at the end of the session they go, that was great. And you're like, oh, well that's good. I guess,

Angie Colee (32:35):

I was just flying by the seat of my pants. Yes. I'm going to underline that and put like five exclamation points on that. Say yes. And figure it out. If it sounds like an interesting thing and people will pay you for it, say yes and figure it out

Brook McCarthy (32:47):

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yes. Because there is a reason why you think you're not good enough. There is a reason why you think you're an imposter. There is a reason why your confidence is shaky and it has absolutely nothing to do with your ability and everything to do with your social conditioning, your socialization, the country you grew up in the people that infiltrated you and told you that, you know, you needed another degree and you needed you to cross your T's and dot your I's. So I'm trying to act like a mediocre white man. That's my resume. I'm trying to just do that, you know, and have the confidence of a mediocre white man. And so far it's working really well.

Angie Colee (33:32):

Don't talk yourself out of things like throw your hat in the ring because the worst that happens is you are exactly the same as you were before you threw your hat in the ring. The best case is your life changes for the better. And you can trace it all back to that one moment that you decided to bet on yourself and try something out. Uh, I've seen it happen. I'm not even exaggerating. You can have one single moment where you made a decision to say yes, and that changes the whole forward trajectory. I talked about being laid off and falling into copywriting. I had no idea this field existed before I got laid off. It was one random conversation in passing where someone mentioned a book. And for some reason in the depths of my despair, because there were some wallowing that happened after the layoff, right? I was, I got laid off from the Oprah Winfrey Network of all places. So I was extra special wallowing. I go, remember this book, all of a sudden go spend 20 bucks. I don't have on this book go. I could do that. And then proceed to like fumble my way through building a career in copywriting, which I eventually left. Like, so this is all part of the journey for everybody that's listening. Just like figuring it out, saying yes to getting really good at communication, reading things like experiments,

Brook McCarthy (34:45):

Follw your curiosity.

Angie Colee (34:49):

Oh, this has been so gold. So Brook, I love everything about this conversation. I think we're going to have to have a follow-up we're going to have to have a follow up. So tell us more about where to find you on the internet.

Brook McCarthy (35:00):

Yes. So I have two websites, which is one too many.

Angie Colee (35:06):

I have two or three it's okay.

Brook McCarthy (35:09):

The main website that I put most of my efforts into is hustleandheart.com that I use. Uh, and my other website is BrookMcCarthy. There's no E on brook.com. Um, you can find me on all the social channels as Brook McCarthy. I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram, I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook. I teach social media. So unfortunately I'm also on TikToK and Pinterest. I teach TikToK. I have taught TikToK to 18 year olds at the university. My God, I felt old and don't go looking for it. It might make a TikTok, please. Oh my God, everybody's going to go.

Angie Colee (35:52):

That was funny. Cause I was like, Ooh, could you teach me TikTok? Because like I got, I've got people telling me that I need to be on there. And it actually sounds kind of fun the way it's described to me. Like, because I have this vision with Permission to Kick Ass, to show people, uh, how much fun you can have failing and falling in and just, just try something and maybe you fail and Hey, the best stories come from when you fell flat on your face, think of all your favorite movies. Planes, Trains, and Automobiles is one of my favorite movies. I don't know if you've ever seen that one with Steve Martin. It's the best story. Ever. Everything went wrong. And it was the best story just to watch that, like, it makes a great story. Nobody ever wakes up, you don't go to pay 20 bucks to see a movie that was like, they woke up and everything was perfect.

Brook McCarthy (36:39):

Oh, absolutely and you know, as a writer, you got to go looking for that. You've got to go looking for, you know, the, the disasters. And then you're like, this is going to be a good story. This is going to be a great story. Even if I want to die right now, it's going to be so funny.

Angie Colee (36:54):

That's going to be my mantra to get me to sleep. I'm in the most stressful period of my life. It's going to be a good story someday. It's going to be a good story.

Brook McCarthy (37:02):

You're a digital nomad during COVID. I mean, say no more.

Angie Colee (37:05):

Yeah, absolutely. What can go wrong will go wrong. I have no doubts about that. Oh, thank you. This has been so much fun and I will talk to you soon.

Brook McCarthy (37:14):

Thank you.

Angie Colee (37:18):

So that is it. Another awesome episode of Permission to Kick Ass on the books. If you want to know more about the show or if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permissiontokickass.com. That is all one word together, permissiontokickass.com. Make sure to sign up for my email list so that you know whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called Kick Monday's Ass. I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass.