Angie Colee (00:02):

Welcome to permission to kick ass, a podcast about leaving self-doubt in the dust, punching fear in the face and taking bold action toward your biggest dreams. I'm Angie Colee, and let's get to it. All right. Welcome back to permission to kick ass today with me is my friends, Nicole Piper, and I am so excited about having Nicole on the show. I've been trying to get her on for a while. So why don't you tell us a little bit about what you do, Nicole?

Nicole Piper (00:33):

Hey, yeah, first of all, I am so excited to be here. Thank you for asking me to be on. Um, so I'm a direct response copywriter, which is basically, um, a fancy way of saying I write words that sell shit.

Angie Colee (00:52):

I love it. Cause I do it too, but I love the context for people keep going.

Nicole Piper (00:56):

Yeah. So yeah, I've been doing this for, um, about gosh since 2016. That's when I started. And, you know, before that I was hanging out in the corporate world. I was there for about 29 years and, um, worked for some amazing companies. Um, I spent 12 years working for MTV networks and I was building the Nickelodeon and MTV brands around the world, which is really awesome. I worked with, uh, Pokemon for awhile and yeah, and I actually did it a lot. Um, I didn't work for other entertainment, these other entertainment companies, but I worked with them. So companies like Disney, Fox, angry birds, you know, all those. So I did a lot of stuff in the entertainment space.

Angie Colee (01:44):

You know, I'm a Disney fan. In fact, they're not going to be able to see this, but you can see it cause we're on video talking to each other, I'm wearing my typical, a Disney Jack Skellington hoodie, which is a favorite of mine. So you can talk Disney to me all day long and I would Be happy. But we were talking Before we started recording about kind of your origin story, how you wound up becoming a copywriter from somebody with this wealth of branding experience and corporate background. And I would love if you just share your story with the listeners today.

Nicole Piper (02:13):

Yeah, sure. You know, it's a, it's funny because, um, you know, I think like most people can relate to, I had, you know, ups and downs in my, in my career. Um, actually the first two, uh, the first 17 years of my corporate career, I worked for two companies. So that was really kind of like the thing back then. It was like, you, you got in with a good company and you stayed there for a really long time. And then the financial crisis hit, and um, all of a sudden it was like hard to find a job, hard to keep a job. And um, so I ended up like in this crazy thing where it was like just, you know, constantly worrying about my job. And I also worked with some wacky bosses. I had, I had some great bosses, but I had some that were really kind of toxic.

Nicole Piper (03:03):

And I was like, Holy crap. You know, what am I, what am I in for today? Type of thing. And I remember just thinking, you know, man, I just wish I could like move to a little village in the South of France and right. And that's, you know, that was kind of like my dream career. And I was like, but you can't make any money writing again, I had this idea that, you know, writing meant like writing novels and that sort of thing. So I didn't know anything about copywriting. Right. And, um, and the other thing is like this whole, like I was really always very conservative about, you know, just my career and all that. And I, I had to have a paycheck, you know, it was just like I had to have that steady paycheck. And I remember it was so funny. I remember like when friends, I had friends who were, uh, freelancers, right.

Nicole Piper (03:57):

And they would tell me they were like, you know, working freelance, I would have like this physical, like a visceral reaction to it because it would like freak me out. I was like, I, I, you don't know how you can do that because I need to have a steady paycheck. I need to know that there's money coming in every, every couple of weeks. And um, so, so as there's like the way the universe works is just so it's so, so amazing. So weird. So amazing. Um, so there I was, I've been like going through a lot of, um, career, you know, or, or, uh, you know, company changes. And I finally found a job with a company that was about 20 minutes from my house before that I was commuting into New York city. So that was like an hour and a half each way. So here I was like, awesome.

Nicole Piper (04:45):

I want to retire from this company. It was a great company. And I was there for six years. I was, I actually brought them in the angry birds license and it was their highest performing license ever. So the company made like $85 million off of these deals that I brought in. And, um, so, you know, I thought things are going well at that company. Right. And I was married at the time and my husband had decided he didn't want to stay married. I was the primary earner. So, um, he was in the fire service and, um, I was like, all right, fine. We just, we worked out our settlement. And, um, our son at the time was about, I think he was probably about 10 years old at the time. And for me, the most important thing was to keep the house, you know, his childhood home and keep him in the same school.

Nicole Piper (05:38):

Cause I thought, you know, I don't want this kid going through his parents' divorce, the new school, you know, a new, a new home and puberty at the same time. So I just wanted to make sure I could stay in the house and I could afford it. Right. So I was like, okay, I'm going to buy my husband out of the house. And that way I can keep life as stable as possible. So we had like signed all the paperwork for me to do that. I had to take out a, like a cash out refi, really, you know, a whopping big mortgage, right. To do this. And so that happened on December, December 29th, 2015. Right. So I sign over, um, I take over ownership of the house sign this new mortgage and December 30th, the president of the company calls me into the conference room conference room and he lays me off.

Nicole Piper (06:33):

And yeah. So didn't see that coming. And he knew what was going on in my life too. Right. So here, this is like, you know, honestly I'm just sitting there and I'm thinking, Oh shit, you know, th the panic attack is going to hit and if it doesn't hit right. And all of a sudden I have this like really amazing sense of calm. And I swear, it's like one of those things I want to say, like I heard a voice, but it was more like, I felt it, it was, um, you know, God's not going to push me off a cliff if he doesn't give me wings to fly. And I just had this thing, all of a sudden where it's like, man, I don't know what's going to happen next, but I know it's going to be good.

Nicole Piper (07:22):

Oh, I really felt that because I was like, there was no way that like something this, like, so, you know, bad could happen all at once. You all these bad things, if there wasn't going to be something good coming out of it. And the thing is, it's like so funny. Cause just like a couple months before I had gotten a copywriting course and I actually thought, um, wow, this is good. As they say, you know, that you could make six figures, you know, writing copy. Maybe this will be my exit strategy from the corporate world, you know, in three to five years. And here I'm thinking the universe was like, yeah, no, no, we're not waiting three to five years

Angie Colee (08:03):

Try three to five months lady!

Nicole Piper (08:04):

Exactly. That's exactly right. So I started, I remember I was like, you know, I was going to parallel path that I was like, okay, I'm going to, cause here I'm thinking I got to replace a six figure income, you know? And um, so I was trying to find a job in my old corporate world. Uh, plus I was also doing this copywriting course. Right. And they had just, it was like just as I started doing it as a flat, I had forgotten about this really how the timing works out. All of a sudden they decided to do like a live version of it. So this was, this had been kind of like a, you're a self study version of it. And then they're like, you know, we're going to do a live version of it. It was a few hundred bucks, like yes, sign me up. So that way I could go through this course much quicker.

Nicole Piper (08:52):

Right. And I gotta tell you, I just fell in love with copywriting. And this was like, I remember I'd wake up at like three 30 in the morning. And I would like race down to my desk to start working on the copywriting course because I couldn't sleep right. Then when I'd go on like a job interview in the city, I felt nauseous. And I was just like, okay, I got to listen to this. I've got to listen to these, these vibes that the universe is giving me. And um, so w after a couple of months, I finally, I put a stake in the ground and I just said, you know what, I'm going to give this two years. I'm going to go it all in two years and, um, just do copywriting and see what I can make of it. So, um, and you know, as soon as I did that, and here's, I think this was like really a key thing about this whole thing was something in my mindset changed. So, you know, there, I went from this idea of always needing to have a paycheck to one where I was like, I couldn't even see the path ahead of me. I had no idea, but I just expected it to be good.

Angie Colee (10:06):

That I think is critical. And like, you might've seen me over here, scribbling, furiously, because you dropped so many good things that I wanted to circle back to. So the first is this idea of the toxic boss, which I think really connects with that feeling. You mentioned you were getting in your body, and I think that's important too. I'm going for interviews and I'm feeling nauseous. Well, no wonder you feel nauseous because you used to work with people that made your life crazy on a daily basis. And I've been there too. That's exactly why I left my old day job because people would literally come to my cube and scream at me if they didn't agree with my choices, didn't matter that my choice has made millions and millions of dollars for the company. If they personally disagreed with it, then clearly I was an evil person.

Angie Colee (10:50):

And I just, I was always bewildered by like, you don't like what I wrote. So I, you don't like me. What's going on here. I don't understand this, that meanness and toxicity. And, you know, circling back to this steady paycheck that you mentioned too. That's a big fear for everybody that's ever started a business. Oh my God, how am I going to pay all my bills? And I've made this joke before, but I think if it's like, we always think I got to stay where I'm at, or I'll wind up homeless under a bridge, surrounded by Wildcats. There's, there's never any, like, I stay where I'm at and I'm miserable, or maybe things work out way better than I anticipated, even though I can't see the clear path now, and life is amazing. You never go there. We always go to homeless and starving to death.

Nicole Piper (11:43):

So true.

Angie Colee (11:44):

And I think it's amazing that you did all that and had this like almost split second mindset mindset in the middle of divorce, taking out this massive mortgage and a surprise layoff all happening at the same time. I think you mentioned before the call that this happened in less than 24 hours. Yeah.

Nicole Piper (12:09):

Yeah, exactly.

Angie Colee (12:10):

And so I really wanted to highlight that because the fact that you were able to sit there in a room and think panic attack is coming, panic attack is coming. Wait, no, I'm strangely calm. I don't know what's coming, but it's going to be good. Oh, I think that's the key to all the progress that you've made. You want to expand on that a little.

Nicole Piper (12:30):

Yeah, totally. So, I mean, there's, there's really a difference of kind of being hopeful and expecting. And I think that's, that to me was the big difference. Cause I've, you know, I've read all those books on, you know, positive thinking and all that kind of stuff.

Angie Colee (12:49):

Manifest at all!

Nicole Piper (12:50):

Yeah. Right, exactly. Um, but it's this thing where when you expect it, you, so you don't all of a sudden it kind of like, it takes the pressure off. You're not kind of like, um, you know, it doesn't matter that I don't know when it's going to happen or how it's going to happen or what it's going to look like. I'm just going to expect it to happen. And then, you know, let things work out, get out of, get out of my own way. I mean like,

Angie Colee (13:19):

let go of the how, and be open to the end goal, but the path may be changing between now and when you get to the goal. And I think that's so critical because like often we'll come up with a plan and a backup plan and a backup backup plan, you know, how it goes over planning and then feel so deflated or like we're failures when the plan doesn't go according to plan and like, Hey, that's kind of the nature of plans.

Nicole Piper (13:47):

Yeah.

Angie Colee (13:49):

They like to change despite our best intentions. Um, and I think that mindset again is just so important because the options aren't stay where I'm at and be miserable or death, the options could be stay where I'm at slowly dying in this cube and being miserable or recreate my entire lifestyle. And it turns out even better than I anticipated. I know that that was true for me because I was commuting, you know, to, you mentioned going into the city in New York, I can't even imagine that commute. I was driving. I was on the other side of the country in San Francisco, two hour commute, 10 to 12 hour days. As I mentioned people yelling at me in my cube, people calling me names in meetings, VPs like truly toxic BS. Right. And I couldn't even imagine another kind of life. And now I'm going to sound like all of those, you know douchebags that promise you're gonna be, you're going to be drinking my ties on the beach and like making money.

Angie Colee (14:52):

First of all, sand in my laptop. No, I'm not taking my laptop to the beach. If I'm at the beach, I'm there to enjoy the beach, not to work, but that's, that's a rant for another day. Uh, I, to sound perfectly, douchebaggy, I'll wake up when I want to. And I take my time getting ready and I don't have to commute anywhere. In fact, right now my commute is walking from the bedroom into the kitchen to turn on the coffee pot and then sit down at my desk. I like that commute. I can handle that commute. And this isn't even a reality that I imagined before I took the leap. So planning for this as a reality, just like, how do you even plan for something that you can't even imagine to be real? You know what I mean? And I think that's what gets so many people stuck. I don't even know what this looks like. So how do I make a plan for it?

Nicole Piper (15:44):

You know, it's funny, someone once told me, and this is I thought was like the best advice. She said, you don't need to see the whole path. You only need to see the next step. And you know, the way I like visualize it is like, if you're walking through the fog, you know, you can see if you're walking on a stone path through the fog, you can see the, the stone that you're on. And the next one you can see clearly you can see the one after that, it's less clear. And then they just start to, you know, kind of fade out in the fog. But with each step that you take the ones that are further away become clear, you know? So it's really this whole thing where it's like, you don't have to have all the steps in place. You really, you know, you can't, you should have kind of a direction and a goal, something that you want.

Nicole Piper (16:31):

And then I think, you know, that's why, like my whole, this whole experience really, really, you know, changed my mind about energy and your, and the energy you put out. I shouldn't say it changed my mind. Like I had read about this stuff before, but like, I, I never experienced it. You know what I mean? And this, it wasn't until this where it was fine. You know, I had the experience and again, like that whole key of just, you know, the energy around expecting something to happen versus like hoping and praying and wishing it. You know what I mean? It's just so different. Right?

Angie Colee (17:10):

I think that's an important point too, because I think there's kind of a school of thought of, we, we kind of joked about manifestation and that's not making fun of you that are very woo I'm. You know, I take the same line as Laura Belgray and some other people out there talk about "woo adjacent". I understand how critical mindset is to this, but I'm not lighting candles and saying spells or anything like that. And nothing against those of you. Who do you do you, if that works for you, that's the important thing. Um, to me, praying, meditating on it, thinking about it without taking action means that you're setting yourself up for disappointment, because like just wishing it into reality isn't enough, taking the steps, even though that path is foggy and unclear. And I love that analogy too, right? Two steps from now, there might be a mud puddle. That means you've got to step to the left, right, right. work Your way around this thing, we do that every day in real life, without even thinking about it. And we trust ourselves to step around the mud puddle and keep moving forward on the path. But for so many starting a business, they think that, Oh shit, there's a mud puddle. What do I do? This is like, this is not the clear path that I imagined. And they let it stop them when it's really not as big of an obstacle as it might seem,

Nicole Piper (18:25):

yeah Or they imagine all the possible mud puddles. And then they never take that first step.

Angie Colee (18:31):

Oh, there's a mud puddle here. There's going to be a wall. Clearly. There's going to be a drop off a cliff somewhere. And I'm not going to see that in the fog. So I might as well not even start.

Nicole Piper (18:38):

Yeah. Right, right.

Angie Colee (18:41):

Trust me, I am the best at catastrophizing things like this. I think you were on a call once where I told a story about how, uh, advertising my business would clearly lead to nuclear winter. And I had all of the steps logically mapped out. Like they actually made sense. And the world ended, did that actually happen when I started advertising my business and telling people that I was in business for myself, we're all still here. So I'm pretty sure it didn't,

Nicole Piper (19:08):

You know, I read somewhere recently that we have, I think it's five times more, um, pain receptors or, or fear receptors in our brain. So we're like biologically we're, you know, we're wired to, um, look out for danger. So that's why it's like, we always have this thing where it's like, it's, you know, the, the, the fear of loss, the fear of pain is, is what we feel it much more intensely than even just, you know, our positive stuff.

Angie Colee (19:42):

Right. Oh yeah. And you know, the, what is it? The ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, like solving problems before they become major problems is generally accepted wisdom. And yet we can't really make ourselves move until the pain is too great to ignore because of that fear response, you know? Oh my God. I'm imagining things that are so much worse until I acknowledged to myself that this thing that I'm doing right now is so painful that I can't stay here. Yeah. All right. Well, I think I can make it through the fear now. And that's why I love to go back to the mindset thing that you mentioned when you were sure a panic attack was coming, but then just had this haaa! Moment of like, yeah, that's going in the trailer too. You had that moment of clarity where you were like, Oh no, not panicking.

Angie Colee (20:37):

It's going to, this is going to be good. I don't know what happens next, but it's going to be good. And I, I'm going to repeat that until people have it burned into their brain, you don't have to know what happens next to know that the good options are equally likely to all of the worst case scenario that you can imagine. So the choice isn't stay where I am or death, the choice is stay where I am or do something different. And then what happens next is the likely result, you know, and it could be something that you didn't expect in a good way could be something that you didn't expect in a bad way, but as long as you are alive and able to react, and there's always going to be a way to adjust for the thing that just happened to you.

Nicole Piper (21:21):

That's so true. I don't think we give ourselves enough. Um, you know, uh, we don't have enough faith in ourselves that we're going to be able to figure it out. And, you know, like when you hear stories of, you know, tragedies that fall on other people, and we're all kind of like, Oh my God, how did you deal with that? And when you, when the person's in it, they're like, you know what? You just do. You just do, like, you can't plan for this sort of thing. You just figure it out, you know,

Angie Colee (21:51):

And it doesn't require you to be super human. I know that one of the ways that you and I bonded was we have kind of a similar background and, you know, I, I don't have children, but I know that I was thrown for a loop when I had an unexpected breakup and then like facing all of this move. And I had just left my job to start permission to kick ass. And like, all of these things were coalescing at the same point. And we talked about it and I'm not talking about, you have to be super human to get through this. Cause I, I called for pizza just about every day for like weeks and from the doughnut place down. It's like, I was single-handedly on a mission to support all of the local restaurants with my junk food orders. I'm pretty sure that was my coping mechanism, but I felt the fear and I did the processing and I got through the pain. I didn't push it back and then kept my eyes focused on that. Like, this is only temporary, this pain, all of this overwhelm, all of this bad stuff that I'm going through right now. You mentioned that as part of your revelation as to why the panic attack didn't come on. It's like only so much bad stuff can happen. Eventually it's gotta be good. Right. Yeah. And we forget that investing in ourselves when we're trying to, when it comes time to put that faith in ourselves.

Nicole Piper (23:09):

Yeah. You know, the other big thing again, was like, I think that whole putting the stake in the ground where you're like, you know, I'm going to do this. And like I said, you know, I gave myself the two years and um, and then I was just like, I, wasn't going to look at any, any companies, you know, I'm going to do my own thing. I'm going to see what I can do, build my own business. And then, you know, amazing things started showing up. I couldn't believe it. It was like one after the other like amazing opportunities.

Angie Colee (23:41):

Funny how the universe kind of rewards you after you are brave enough to stake that claim. And I think that's such a great thing too, because so many people were like, well, I'll dip my toe in the water and I'll see if this business can become something. And then maybe if I see some results, I'll get serious about it. I think the thing to do is to get serious about it and then know that when you're serious about it, the results will come or at least the path would be the path to the results you're hoping for will become more clear.

Nicole Piper (24:12):

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Yeah.

Angie Colee (24:15):

Love it. Love it. All right. So Nicole, do you want to tell people a little bit more about how to find you in case they want to do a little bit of cyber-stalking here?

Nicole Piper (24:27):

Sure. Okay. So there are actually two places. So, um, Piper marketing solutions.com. That's the site, which is, you know, kind of out more about me, um, and my copywriting, my life as a copywriter. Um, and then I actually have, um, you know, part of the evolution here over the past few years is I put another stake in the ground and I decided that I'm really going to focus only on working with people in health and wellness. So I'm a health and wellness copywriter. And I also coach a lot of doctors and practitioners and health coaches on building, um, six and seven, seven figure funnels. Um, so that website is Piper wellness marketing.com. So there are two places to find me.

Angie Colee (25:16):

Oh, that's fantastic. And so that's something for everybody. If you're listening to this and you think you want to be a health and wellness coach, well, then you need to head over to Piper wellness marketing. Uh, and if you want to learn a little bit more about copywriting, I've, I've interviewed a lot of copywriters on the show, but that's my background's in, in the creative field. And even within copywriting, there are a bunch of different specialties like health and wellness or coaching, or, you know, I did, I taught, um, with my copywriting people, how to start online businesses, which is why transitioning to what I'm doing now was such a perfect fit. So wealth of opportunities for you to explore and potentially work with Nicole if that sounds like a good fit. She's got amazing brand building experience. Like, come on wouldn't you want somebody who helped make MTV into what it was helping you with your brand? I know I would!

Nicole Piper (26:07):

Yep, I definitely use some of those strategies when I'm working with coaches. So, yeah, absolutely.

Angie Colee (26:12):

Right. Because your past experience really transfers into any business you build. Like, remember that you've got skills and business building skills can be learned just like any other skill. So thank you so much for being on the show. This has been an amazing chat. I'll make sure that they have links, that they can click to check you out in the show notes. And we have to do this again soon.

Nicole Piper (26:34):

Absolutely Loved you, Angie. Thank you so much.

Angie Colee (26:37):

Thank you. So that is it another awesome Episode of permission to kick on the books. If you want to know more about the show, if you want to know more about me, Angie Colee and the mission I'm on to help entrepreneurs punch fear in the face and do big bold things, then head on over to permission to kick ass.com. That is all one word together, permission to kick ass.com, make sure to sign up for my email list so that, you know, whenever there's a hot, fresh and ready podcast episode out for you. And also on Mondays, I like to send out a little newsletter called kick Mondays ass I'm sure you're totally, totally surprised by that. So thank you for being here with me today. I'm Angie Colee. Make sure that you share this with a friend that needs to hear this message today. Like it, share it. Comment wherever you're listening to this today and let's go kick some ass

Speaker 5 (27:33):

[inaudible].