Today I’m joined by my Marisa Corcoran! Marisa is the brains behind Copy Confidence Society, where she helps coaches and creatives craft copy that attracts dream clients. We're both proud 'hookers with a heart of gold'—no, it's not what you're thinking (you'll have to listen to get the full story). This episode is full of so much gold. We're diving into authenticity, giving 'professionalism' the middle finger, and giving you a sneak peek into our wild digital nomad adventures... Listen now!
Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:
This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!
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If you dig the show and want to help bring more episodes to the world, consider buying a coffee for the production team!
Today I’m joined by my Marisa Corcoran! Marisa is the brains behind Copy Confidence Society, where she helps coaches and creatives craft copy that attracts dream clients. We're both proud 'hookers with a heart of gold'—no, it's not what you're thinking (you'll have to listen to get the full story). This episode is full of so much gold. We're diving into authenticity, giving 'professionalism' the middle finger, and giving you a sneak peek into our wild digital nomad adventures... Listen now!
Can’t-Miss Moments From This Episode:
This one is jam-packed full of advice. Don’t miss out - listen now!
Let's collab:
Let's connect:
If you dig the show and want to help bring more episodes to the world, consider buying a coffee for the production team!
Welcome to Permission to Kick Ass, the show that gives you a virtual seat at the bar for the real conversations that happen between entrepreneurs. I'm interviewing all kinds of business owners, from those just a few years into freelancing to CEOs helming nine figure companies. If you've ever worried that everyone else just seems to get it and you're missing something or messing things up, this show is for you. I'm your host, Angie Coley, and let's get to it. Hey and welcome back to Permission to Kick Ass. With me today is my friend, Marisa Corcoran. I can't believe it's been so long. Like whatever, I am happy to have you on the show. I can't even tell you Say hi.
Speaker 2:Oh, angie, I'm so happy to be here. You know you're the first person. I talk about you all the time because when you talk about like pandemic life, covid life, the first person I shared a dessert with like post the pandemic that I was like sure I'll put my spoon in the same plate as you was you. When we went to the coffee writer meetup in Atlanta and I always people always ask me like when did you feel like maybe things might be okay? And I was like I split a dessert with Boston Prime at for the very first time at this coffee writer event and everybody was like I don't want dessert and I look over at her and she and we were both like we want dessert. And it was this moment where I was like I think life is going to be okay. Yes, I shared a dessert with Angie Coley and I feel like I was like that's what I thought, maybe life was going to be Okay.
Speaker 1:I didn't know ordering dessert had that big of an impact.
Speaker 2:It's so funny. It's the first time I'd met you too at that dinner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we'd always run in similar circles and I knew of you and I'd spoken to you, but we had never met face to face. So shout out to Daniel Lamb for coordinating the dinner of all dinners with the Atlanta Copywriters. That was fantastic and that's always how I know I have found my people, by the way, like if we're all willing to order different things and then just like pass plates around so everybody gets to try a whole bunch of different things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was something about you that night that I was like, oh, this is a person for me.
Speaker 1:You know we've both done some digital nomad travels too, and I told I don't know how much I've talked about it on the show One of my biggest fears when I hit the road was how lonely it was going to be because I was traveling solo. I know you were traveling with your partner, but lonely wasn't. The experience that I had and it was kind of a pleasant surprise and it ties into food in a lovely way. I remember being in Flagstaff by myself, going to a local pizza restaurant and sitting at a bar with a bunch of strangers right and I ordered my pizza and I looked over at the lady to my right and she had a different one, one that I had been thinking about and went oh man, that was the other one I was thinking about.
Speaker 1:Please tell me. It is as amazing as it sounded. And she goes do you want to slice? I was like, do you want to slice of this? And before long all of us along the bar were trading pizzas back and forth so that everybody could get a slice of something different. We didn't elect each other's names, phone numbers we don't keep in touch but it was just such a lovely human experience, bonding over food and stories that like. I love that stuff.
Speaker 2:I love that story, andy, so much, and I think, and I was going to ask you, when you said loneliness was not the thing that you experienced, I was going to be like, what do you think is the reason you didn't feel that way? And then this awesome story is like just such a great example of that. And we stopped in Flagstaff on our way to the Grand Canyon, and that was my biggest thing on the road was there were the bigger cities or big, not cities, but experiences Like of course I wanted to see the Grand Canyon, of course I wanted to, you know, from sea to shining sea, like dip my toes in the Pacific Ocean, sure, but the things that were the most memorable to me are those small moments in these smaller pockets of town. Like we had a similar kind of experience like just bonding with people at breweries all over the United States. One is in Flagstaff. Just these like small pockets of moments. Another one happened when we were in Montana. Just these like small things that I wasn't expecting that really stand out.
Speaker 1:So I like that story.
Speaker 1:Travel is so transformative and I know like this is interesting to me, like we haven't even gotten to talking about business yet, but I know that this is a big concern for folks in our age bracket 30s, 40s who are like it's hard to make friends as an adult. Well, this is exactly where it starts. Go find something that you like to do, challenge yourself to go out solo or with a small group of people and then just start conversations. It's probably not going to go anywhere in a lot of times, but you'll have fun and then you might meet a good friend.
Speaker 2:You know, we I did meet so when we were in LA. So my partner and I put our stuff in storage in Atlanta, georgia. We hit the road, we went to 28 different states and, as of last week when I saw you at Copy Chief Live I don't know that was I've slept in 47 different places this year and we were now. We, yeah, we were now like just overnight and we stayed at this hotel on the sunset strip which is now called the Andas, but it was like the old and my partner or the name of it, it's the. It's like the old rock and roll like hotel that everybody stayed at.
Speaker 2:So when you walk in, they have guitar hero in the lobby and during the pandemic, while everybody I don't know was writing the great American novel and baking bread, I was mastering college Marisa was bringing guitar hero back and I am really good at it. So I knew I was going to like be there for the night and we we went to get a drink at the bar and you can bring your dog in there, and we had our dog with us on the trip the whole time and they let us bring our dog like into the lobby bar area and we struck up a conversation with this couple because they wanted to meet our dog, jake, and we ended up spending the rest of the night with them. I taught them like the the husband hadn't played guitar hero since college and the wife, glory, had never played. We were with them till one in the morning Me, my husband, eric, my dog, our dog Jake, glory and Evan playing guitar hero in the lobby of the Andas hotel to like one in the morning.
Speaker 2:And when I like I just talked to Glory yesterday, like on Instagram, she was asking me about Jake because he hasn't been feeling well and like Glory became a friend from that night. I never like saw them again after that, but we like became a friend from playing guitar hero and our dog and you know, and I was like teaching her and how to play. And then, like I was got five stars playing Metallica and just lost my mind and they got to like witness my own like personal Cause I've been working my way up to get so hard to get.
Speaker 2:It's like the hardest song and it's so hard to get it. They were. They were my witnesses that night. So, like this thing, I've been working for over years.
Speaker 1:Isn't that always great when you have a witness to something. It's like one of my best stories from when I was younger and this is I remember it fairly vividly. This has been 2007, for smartphones were everywhere Damn it. A friend of mine shout out to Shanna. Shanna and I were at Howl at the Moon at Universal City Walk in LA and we were at this dueling piano bar and I was still scared to audition for bands at that point, Like I hadn't embraced. I'm a good singer, let's go sing.
Speaker 1:So Shanna got me good and rip roaring drunk and signed me up for a song and I get up on stage and I start superstition and I'm having fun. I'm finally starting to loosen up a little bit and a bunch of guys walk in with instrument cases and I was like that's kind of weird. The piano player looks at me and gives the signal for like, keep going, we're going to go another round. So we do this 15 minute long song with a full horn section. It turns out it was the horn section from Big Bad Voodoo Daddy. They had hit a curfew at the amphitheater down the road and we're looking for a place to play and people told him to go to Howl at the Moon. They got the dueling pianos there you could play, but Shanna was there. Shanna got to witness the glory. So I did have a witness, even though I don't have a recording.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I don't have a recording of me that I took a screenshot because when you get done they have like the fake write up about like how your performance was, and I took a screenshot so it says the five stars, but there's no video of me playing it. And my husband says he's like something came over you. You were just like in this trance. He was like and you didn't miss a note, like my note streak was wild. And so my witnesses are Glory and Evan, who think I'm like some sort of incredible guitar player and it's just like this is what I did, all pandemic, but it was just this bonding moment.
Speaker 2:And a lot of the other people that we met along the way really came from our dog, people wanting to meet Jake, and I can name a couple other people that we don't keep in touch with like the way that we did with Glory or the way I am with Glory, but that we met through Jake or through having a conversation. Somebody that like helped us know what place to book in San Diego came from a bar in Tallahassee Because they saw Jake click in the lobby of that hotel or whatever. So our dogs seem to be like our meat cube for, like all of our, like road trip, like brief romances of people you know so yeah, I had a similar experience with Stella.
Speaker 1:Granted, you can't take a cat to suit a whole lot of places for myriad reasons, right, but there were neighborhoods that were relatively quiet that I was able to take her out on her lesion harness for a little walk around the neighborhood, and people were like, oh my God, tell me about how you got a cat to walk on a leash.
Speaker 2:Yes, I remember seeing your post like on Facebook and stuff about bringing it, and I thought it was so cool because I felt like you were able to bring Stella to like way more places than, or way more experiences than I would have thought.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, sometimes it required some negotiation with the Airbnb host, because that was a surprising learning to some of the hosts. It would probably surprise people to learn that there are a lot of pet friendly places are probably 75 to 80% of them are dog friendly only, and so like sometimes finding a place that will allow cats can be a challenge, and so, thankfully, I had a flash of insight when, when I first started traveling, I asked my very first few Airbnb host to specifically mention Stella and the state of cleanliness and the fact that she hadn't destroyed the place, and from then on, I got every host to say, like Angie was there, stella was fantastic. You would never have known that she was there with a cat for six weeks.
Speaker 2:That's such a great idea to do that, because I don't. Similarly people and not so much like what with dogs. There were more possibilities, but there were times where maybe there wasn't something available because we didn't always plan ahead where we were going to go stay. So a lot of times we would write and I would like say what like a little paragraph about Jake, but I should have had people put that in the in the review. You know he's a 16 year old dog that's going to like sit around all day yes, for teeth.
Speaker 2:His tongue hangs out, and that's.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we can do it in the show notes but I feel like I need pictures of him now because that's the door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we turn them into a sticker. In the coffee confidence society when you complete like a first piece of core coffee, I send you like a really cute like coffee confidence society tote. And I had asked the community I wanted to create some stickers what you would want and they gave me a series of like things that I say that people would want. And then we have a thing called the copy stars and you got to identify your copy star. So I made stickers of that. And then the other thing they said they wanted was one of Jake. So I had one made and I actually have it on my like. You can kind of see him here. It's on my to do pad. I had a to do pad name, so that's his little face as a. So people get this as a sticker.
Speaker 1:His face. That's so cute. And hey, that's a wonderful segue, because we've been ranting about travel for quite a bit. Now tell us a little bit about your business. I'm not traveling America.
Speaker 2:While I'm traveling America, I'm still working and yeah, we support, you know, and I'm sure your audience, so many of your audiences, you know copy folk and it's likely you know. But I always say, you know, copy isn't icing on the cake, it is the cake, it's the butter, it's the gluten free flour, if you're like me, it's the eggs that tell all these other things we want to have happen in your business come to life. You want to sell in a way that feels good, you want to call in the right people to sell to and as a business owner and that's really who we work with. If you, if you, in order to do those things, you have to know what to say and how to say it, and that's what we help business owners mainly coaches and creatives create what we call your uncopiable message and that magnetic copy that supports it inside of our signature program, the copy confidence society, which we just launched for the 10th time this past September.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice. Yeah, I know that's something that I talk about a lot in various business circles that I'm in. And for anybody that's on the newer end of the spectrum or you're just not familiar with the industry jargon yet, copywriting is basically marketing and advertising kind of sales writing. It's a specialized branch of writing and creative stuff. But, man, I love it because you get the right single right concepts, the right ads and you get people's attention. It's like a puzzle piece. I've always loved that and I have great admiration for people that can teach copy like I'm doing skill set. I've been a copy chief for a long time and I can help people who have a decent understanding get better at what they do. But like I, kind of suck at teaching fun fundamentals. I'm impatient.
Speaker 2:Yes, also even for myself, because a lot of what I did I took from my time as an actor and I realized that, like everything that you did on stage was what I was actually doing for my clients. When I wrote privately, when I wrote copy, I realized I was really doing this like actors guide to copy. And then when I started teaching it, it was like I just kind of knew how to do it. So I hired a former tea, an online curriculum specialist, so I had run the copy confidence society about three times live. And then Cassie came in and worked with me for a year as I ran it again.
Speaker 2:But now going through every step of the way and really breaking, like this, my brain down step by step by step, like in ways that I was like, okay, but really to serve all the different learning styles, so that when we transition the society to more of a course in community, where it is now today that people really it could benefit their, their learning style because, yeah, first, like I knew, but how to like explain it and I was at first I was always teaching it the way that I learned, which was the way that I learned best, which is just show me an example, like I just need an example, and like swipe copy like step by steps, my brain I'm like I can't, I can't, but there's people that that doesn't help. So that's what helped me do was break it down step by step, and so it's one of the things rave reviews we get about the society is that people feel like, oh, this is the first course I actually like went through because it served my learning style, and then they'll like say what that is that's like different from mine. But I but at first I'd be like why? Yeah, of course this is the how do you not see that this is what it is? But trying to break that down was a struggle for me at first, for sure.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you for sharing that, because I feel like I've encountered that a lot with people that I've coached or worked with or just people in the industry in general, who hear the message right from the gurus of just create a course. But wisdom business teach what you know online right, and that's a skill set in and of itself. You hit the nail on the head with so many of us have different learning styles. It wasn't until I started teaching people that I realized that my brain skips a bunch of steps, and not because I'm taking shortcuts, but because it just the way it works is. It automatically finds the fastest, most efficient way to do things. I am a lazy girl at heart. I want to get this done well, but I want to get it done fast and without killing myself in the process, and so when I share my like easy ways with people, I would get the kind of what be world or reaction Same.
Speaker 2:And then I think, am I not good, Like what's happening?
Speaker 2:And that's another reason why I really encourage people when you do start the kind of one to many model and you don't have to, by the way, that's.
Speaker 2:The other thing is like all this, like you get to do whatever you want inside of your, your business, but if a one to many or you want to do that, I think something that really helped me was not going straight to the course right away, which was I taught this live four times, by six, seven, eight, nine, 10. That's not even true, I think five times, and I think then the last five have been the course, but live just over and over. So every Monday, every round, I was still let's say we're talking about websites I was still teaching that live. It was recorded so they could go back and listen to it, but I didn't turn it into a course until I had done it four or five times To really know that it was going to. Then then bring Cassie and work for the different learning styles and I think that's something we'll be like oh, just go record the course and it's like I think there's a lot more steps to it than that you really want to create something that people are going to use and be beneficial.
Speaker 1:But I'm glad that you brought that up, because that's one of my favorite tactics, for I think a lot of folks spend a lot of time creating offers that they think people want or they're like I know that there's a gap here in the market and so I'm going to go ahead and fill it, because I know people need this right.
Speaker 1:And that always becomes a danger zone, because then you get excited and you build this thing, you build the whole thing, and then you go start to sell it and if you find out nobody wants it after that or you need to do a whole lot more education to get people in it, then it feels like you failed somehow. It's hard not to take that shit personally, and so I love what you did, because I think that's so smart and strategic, especially for people that work in coaching or that work in teaching dynamics, anything like that information industry. Talk to more people, coach more people one-on-one, run more live classes so that you can collect all of the questions that you're getting, because then, with all the data, you'll start to see the patterns and recognize what people are really asking you for. Slide in a little bit of what they need there, but don't build it around what you think they need. Build it around what they want.
Speaker 2:First, would you say that, zachary, oh beyond, and a quick example of that is the first round of the Copy Confidence Society. We dove right into copy. It was like, all right, you're here, you're here. It was a group of 12 people. I was like, all right, let's do this. We're going to get right started on the most immediate like your email, social media, let's go. And I was like, why can't people do that? What's happening and what I realized was because something I always say, or I've learned in this process, was I could give people all the copy tips in the world. A lot of my people were a little bit newer. I was like I give you all the copy tips in the world, but the best copy cannot fix a muddied message.
Speaker 2:And so we needed to first work on messaging. So if I had had a course all recorded I would have been screwed, angie. Because second round of the society, we changed the first month. The first month was now messaging what I do, statement, getting clear on you. Then the second, okay, which led to extending the society a little bit so that we could then fit those things. Then the third round, it was like, oh, okay, when it came to the personality piece.
Speaker 2:I come from an actor background. Right, I spent three years rolling around like feeling my feelings and like showing up and knowing what my character like, who I was supposed to be and moral people don't go and put themselves into $100,000 of student loan debt to go and do that, right. So that's when I created the copy stars, which was helping people kind of identify their personality in a way that they could see it. Because just telling people like, oh, go be yourself, people know how to do that in real life and how do you translate that to your business. And the copy stars got added in. So every step of the way, stuff was added in to where, finally, after the fourth, fifth time, I'm like, okay, this can be recorded and I feel confident to sell this as a quote, as a as a course, and even now we're. I just reported the content module this last round. We still add in extra things that I'll add into bonuses, and I'm already like it's time to rerecord the messaging module. Things have shifted, you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I couldn't agree more. I love that it has to be iterative, like you're never going to figure out anything or everything. I should say you're never going to figure out everything in advance and just like immediately launched to a winner. It happens sometimes, but that's kind of like playing the lotto I wouldn't think on it, no, wouldn't build a future around when I win the lotto. This is what all, what all is going to happen. And it's really interesting that you mentioned.
Speaker 1:Well, this is one of my big pet peeve. You know me and who I've worked with in the past. I've run some pretty big teams, worked with some pretty big names, and there was one instance where it became kind of a team thing and eventually I had to kind of like snap on people a little bit. But I was like stop saying it's a fucking copy problem, because so many times they would say, well, we haven't completed planning this course, or we don't have the details for that, or people are confused over this. That's a copy problem. And I was like copy can't fix everything. Nope, I'm a brilliant wordsmith, I will admit that, but I can't fix everything with words, I just can't. Y'all got to pull your part too, so I don't know why that rant popped up, but for anybody listening who's been sold a bill of goods about copywriting being like the magical cure that will exponentially grow your business. It's true if you've got your offer in your market in place 100%.
Speaker 2:It's an essential tool. I always say, like, good copies are non-negotiable, but it's one of the tools that brings it together, like if we don't have the messaging isn't right or the offer, yeah, all of those things go together. And so in the society, angie, I don't even let people unlock the copy modules until they do the work of the first three modules, which is your copy star, that personnel. I always say people make purchasing decisions based on two things One is what you're selling, something that I want or that I need. That's your messaging. And number two, are you the person that I want to do it with?
Speaker 2:So the first part is where we introduce this concept of the copy stars. Call it, like your word, closet. It's essentially branding, but through the lens of what you do as an actor, I just apply it to business. Then the messaging, then the work of ideal client, but not asking your ideal client like, do they drink coffee or tea? Like asking them real questions. That's gonna get so that when you write, when you open the copy modules now you actually have stuff that is true to you, accurate, of your ideal client, to insert into the copy, and that's my goal for people. So I don't even open people and I try to make this really clear in all of our selling stuff is like when you come in you're not gonna get to just go straight to the website module Not on this reputation of this program. I need you to go through the or revisit it and then go for it. But I gotta make sure that you're not out there saying some weird muddied ass message and then saying you learned it here.
Speaker 1:There's a method to the madness and you know, one of my mentors used to say this and I thought it was kind of corny at the time, but I recognize the wisdom of it now which was don't be too cool for school, because people who are widely considered masters are constantly going back to revisit the 101, the very beginner level skills and seeing what they've picked up with their expertise and all of the time that they've spent doing the thing and bring it back to the beginner level and see how that they can improve their foundations to improve their business.
Speaker 1:I freaking love that. And there was another thing that you brought up about personality, because I think a lot of us I mean I struggle with this too and I'm arguably an expert at copywriting and messaging but I remember and it wasn't too long ago either, after like 13 years in copy one of my good friends hi, jimmy, jimmy parent told me that I was was a kind of bipolar personality. I had two different personalities online. He's like there's teaching you that writes all of your emails, and there's like fun loving Angie that's out like in a hot air balloon or doing llama yoga, and it's like I don't understand why it changes so drastically when you're sending emails versus when you're posting online, like there could be so, and it's so funny how that kind of gets baked into when you're in professional mode. Suddenly the personality gets stripped away. It happens to all of us.
Speaker 2:Yes yeah, and this is what I try to tell people like help people bring together authentically. We're not just doing it to like it, but that there is this like essence of Angie that's being left off the table. Okay, how do we do that? So it's likely inside of the coffee confidence society, angie, we would say you're a strong mix of the nerdtastic leader and the hooker with a heart of gold. What I need an immediate profile.
Speaker 1:I need it, I need it.
Speaker 2:So I'm the hooker with a heart of gold. So I often need to borrow from nerdtastic leaders or from what we call like the relentless cheerleader. But so in your copy it's like how do we take the hooker with a heart of gold Like adventure Angie, who's like super direct fun, like the person that everybody wants to like hang out and do all the fun activities, and bring that into nerdtastic leader like email Angie? And once people understand that or see it, I never say it's easy because, like, there's days when, like, why are we running around, but what are we doing? But it became quite simple to then.
Speaker 2:So this is what I have people create. I call it like the you on one page, and it's just reminding yourself of that, of being like okay, am I leaving the hooker with a heart of gold, part of me off the table? It's intentional for whatever, it is okay, fine. But just to remind myself, and I often found myself not a couple of years ago feeling like I had to lean more into like the relentless cheerleader, and then I was like no, I'm straying, I'm getting away from what makes me me, which is like the direct the pop the. So I had to even go back and be like no, I'm the hooker with a heart of gold, you know. So this is what we help people do, and you can also. There's the quirky misfit, which is for all our woo people out there Crookie misfit. And then there's also the red hot trailblazer. So there's the hooker with a heart of gold, hooker with a heart of gold, relentless cheerleader, nerdtastic leader, quirky misfit and the red hot trailblazer.
Speaker 1:I love those personalities and I'm gonna have links in the show notes so that people can go check it out. I'm sure they're instantly gonna want it. But they are as well with names like that. That's fantastic. And you know, I have a random question and then I will circle back to the other direction that I wanted to go to. But the random question is have you encountered with people that you work with a certain resistance to leaning into that natural personality and that natural strength? And I'll tell you why I asked this. It's because a lot of the folks that I've coached and I have worked with they get super in their heads about how hard this has to be and it can't be that easy. It can't be that easy to just be myself on the page and lean into this thing that naturally comes to me. I've gotta like steep myself in these skills over here and become a better version. Have you encountered something like that with the people that you work with?
Speaker 2:Yes, and something that you said before, Angie, is the most thing that I encounter is that people go I have to be professional, I'm professional and I'm like, okay, professional is that we said we were doing this interview today and we're here. Professional is that if I say, yeah, I'm gonna be there, copy chief live. When we say I'm gonna be there, right, Professional?
Speaker 1:is.
Speaker 2:I think we have a skewed idea of what professional means. Now, in a business where you're the, I understand if you work within a company, I get that, but if you are a solopreneur or the face of the company, it's like we've kind of skewed like what professional means. We take it very seriously. Inside of the company we live by these five values and one of them is depth. And I mean this because the team knows like don't let shit fall through the cracks Like depth. But outside of that I'm showing up as my hooker with a heart of gold self, because, again, people are making purchasing decisions based on two things. And that second thing is are you the person that I wanna do it with? So it's actually quite like. It's very much an integrity Like once you get on the inside, if you really wanna get results with your clients, you're gonna be yourself like on the inside. So we gotta show people who that is so that they make the best purchasing decision for them. So slowly, when I kind of walk people to that they're like okay, but also I say give yourself the opportunity to play with it, to just start to see what starts to happen. So the first thing is like let's just break the mold of a little bit of like. What professional means For me?
Speaker 2:Like when I came into the coffee space Angie on God, I was like I do not belong here. I didn't have like celebrity clients. I was. Everybody was sitting around talking about like evergreen funnels and trip wires and I was like I guess I gotta sit here with my antailer blazer and just like. And then when I was like this is not who I am and that's for me.
Speaker 2:It also changed how I was, what I. For me it changed what I was wearing. I'm very much like a costume per like how I dress. So I was like okay enough with this. I like I know I have sleeves on today, but normally I was like I'm done with sleeves. I'm gonna be in like in my rock t-shirt with my hoop earrings. I'm gonna start telling stories about my grandpa, my former life as an actor, my dog and just see if that starts to bring in the people that I wanted to bring in and trust that they have the skill set to help them, you know, create the copy that they wanna create. And that's where I really started to see things change inside of my business. But even for myself. It wasn't overnight, cause I was like, well, is anybody gonna take me seriously?
Speaker 1:Cause I was like all of these copy people are so like yeah, I love that I wrote down a couple of yeah, I wasn't either, but I thought that that's what I had to be when I fell into copywriting.
Speaker 1:I fell into we're just not gonna name it it was a hyper macho, super competitive cess pool of the internet and that was where I started to get to know marketers and I thought it was all about stirring and braggadocio and like all of that stuff, which I mean somewhat comes naturally to my personality but like the bragging and the talking about myself is very deeply uncomfortable to me still when something I struggle with. So when I found people that I resonated with and went, oh oh, you can do it differently, I like that. And I still got bogged down in professionalism because by then I had a corporate copy job and I got that message of, like, you know, show up and there's a dress code and all of those things and the expectations that come with that. So and I think I've told this story on the show before I certainly told it in Nashville and surprised a few people. I don't know why it's surprising about me to find out that I've been in Mosh pit fights what? So yeah, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:I'm not gonna say Well, I hit it and I remember in 2014, 2015, something like that I went to an event with some of these online copywriters for the first time and I was sitting there like the piercings were out, the tattoos are covered. I'm wearing my blazer at the bar sipping on my drink. They must have made that drink extra strong because Angie got a little tipsy and somehow we wound up talking about concerts and I was telling a story about one of the Mosh pit fights that I've been in and I literally saw people go what's this? What do I not know this about you? That's fat. And I went well, that's not something that's wrong and bad and shameful, and I don't need to go home and overanalyze that for like the next three years about how I fucked up so badly by sharing a Mosh pit story.
Speaker 2:That's your magic and that's what I saw in you. When we met that night at the copyrighted dinner, I was like, well, this is somebody that I wanna know. This is somebody who has had adventures on this, you know, and I'm also somebody and I think it's probably surprising to a lot of people is my like. I'll tell you this. So my husband always says there's two things he was I can't believe I'm gonna say this, but I'm gonna say this and it's totally fine.
Speaker 2:My husband always says there's two things he was so surprised by about me. Number one is that my boobs were way bigger than he thought. And number two, that he was so surprised to find just how actually like my anxiety I had about like how people thought about me or felt about me. He was shocked because I will present, like you know, at Copy Cheap, I have red leather pants on a stranger things muscle T-shirt and like 80 pounds of tour like I was like Mr D. You know what I mean, but I am definitely somebody who will like analyze what people think.
Speaker 2:So, actually, when I go to like certain events where I find myself shining, as if I can have conversations, like somebody tells me that, where we can talk about real life. That's how I feel, my anxiousness like okay, and I think people are surprised because I'm very like confident, but I have my own shit. I'm like dealing with you know what I mean. So I love to have, and I think that's what made me gravitate towards you that night. At the dinner was like yeah, let's just talk about like real life stuff and we'll get to the business and all the other good stuff when and if that needs to, and that's usually where my best collaborations and relationships have started.
Speaker 1:Right, just personal shit, and that was the hardest lesson for me to learn when I'm younger. And another reason why I love having this show to kind of dispel those myths is that if you are at an event or a mastermind meeting or a networking meeting with the goal of building your business right, getting some clients, building those relationships, et cetera we know why we do these business events right, but you think that you're gonna go to the bar and be like so last week I worked on this amazing campaign that did blah, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 2:I wasn't fucking cares. They hear that all the time 24 seven in their business lives.
Speaker 1:It's great it may come up as it pertains to them, but they really wanna get to know you as the person. They wanna work with you as a person. And everything changed for me when I realized that, like I want clients that I could go have a conversation at the bar with. That becomes such a stupid thing. But at the last Copy Chief event in Knoxville no, it was in St Pete earlier this year I had promised a ride to one group of colleagues and then they like walked off and I thought they had already found a ride. So then I promised a ride to another group of colleagues and that second group and I were walking to the car. We ran into the first group and then I was like, oh shit, I can't fit this many people in my car. All right, well, the options are a couple of you find an Uber and everybody else piles in the car with me, or we could just go back to college glory days and somebody gets in the trunk.
Speaker 2:This is where my friend right.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, I'm in front of being in the trunk and we just repeated it in Nashville a couple of weeks ago. But that was just because while we were out on that final night, somewhere between like 10 and midnight, the temperature plummeted by like 20, 30 degrees. And all these poor dudes that we were hanging out with we're out walking without their jacket. I was in my nice little red jacket that I love, but they were walking around in their t-shirts just like freezing, like all right, everybody in the yep, one of you is gonna have to get in the trunk. Well, this is gonna be a thing at the events. Now Somebody gets an Angie's trunk. It's gonna sound like some mob shit, but it's not. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's how you get. I always tell people like how do you get people to like the three Rs that they'll like remember you, rave about you or refer you or like all three, and it's from these things, like I've heard the Brenna in the trunk story, you know. So it's, it's, that's the thing. And in I don't know if you remember this, andy Kevin was saying this at Copycheats. He was like you know, there's those three kinds of people you either walk in with, like remember it's like the social energy, or somebody had said that are you walk in and one of the things he said is that some, there's that. Third, and I'm kind of telephone hour in this, but the point of it was like some people walk in and there are more of those wallflowers. So I know that my energy is like I want to talk about real life, but I know that somebody might not like want to just like approach and do that.
Speaker 2:So I'm very mindful of like approaching people and then like hey so like I sat down at like the VIP dinner at Copycheats and literally the person said to me I was like, okay, so tell, I have my red one, so tell me everything about. So who are? Tell me everything about you. I just like giving space for people to do that. If maybe you are somebody who's a little bit more sociable Cause I know some people might be listening and be like, oh my God, I'm such cause I'm like such an extrovert, I'm totally recharged I always say I should never be alone, even to shower, come in and talk to me. You know what I mean. Like just come in the room, you know, but a lot of my friends are those introverts. So me reaching out to a lot of my friends to be like what's up, how is it going, and I think thinking about that events too. If you are somebody that's a little bit more extroverted and you see that in someone just being like, hey, I'm so and so, like where did you fly into from today?
Speaker 2:And just like help create that space for them, for, like the non us in the room, that's such a great piece of advice.
Speaker 1:Well, and actually I think a lot of people mistake me for an extrovert. I actually identify as an Ambervert. This actually happened. I went to meet some friends in Dallas and through like a just weird series of miscommunications I didn't really understand what I was signing up for. So my book coach shout out to we're just gonna shout out everybody today Kathleen Coil, she's helping me with the go to market strategy of my book launch, permission to kick ass. And she reaches out. She's normally in Arizona, but she says I'm gonna be in Dallas, which is just a couple of hours drive north of me. And I went okay, cool, I'll come up and hang with you on your free day and we can talk book stuff and we can catch up and it'll be nice. So when I get to town, she goes hey, you should come over to the Airbnb. A few people from our old group that I used to be a part of a mastermind with are here, and so I was like all right, well, I'll stay in my ratty, sweaty travel clothes and we'll hang out at the Airbnb for a quiet night with these people that I know. Well, not an hour later they're like oh, we're gonna go to the Sheridan and we're gonna meet with our friends. And I went huh, the little light started going off, but it wasn't enough to clue me into what I was about to walk into, because my old work wife from Jeff Walker's team had mentioned that she was flying to Dallas a few days prior and I went. She's probably there for business, but I'm still not connecting the dots. So we show up at the Sheridan and I see Jeff and John and all of the Launch Club members and all the Plat plus all these people that I used to work with when I was on Jeff Walker's team, and everybody's hugging and they're stopping me for selfies and they're like oh my God, I knew you were gonna be here and I'm like I didn't know I was gonna be here. I would have told a whole lot more people and I would have spent several days psyching myself up for that. And I think the funny thing was it was kind of legendary on the team about how I was known for the Irish exit. I would just straight up disappear.
Speaker 1:When I got peopled out, they wound up going to sit down and get a late dinner at a sports bar that was in the hotel. We walked into that sports bar and it was so freaking loud that I swear you would have seen me standing there. I don't know what to do with this right now. So I got an Uber and I went and picked up my car and I left. And they asked me about it the next day. They were like oh, I was so sad that you left and I was like I hadn't.
Speaker 1:I had mentally prepared myself for like a quiet night with five people. I had not mentally prepared myself for like 30 people and screaming. But I have to prepare myself for these things. So do I, and I'm glad that you mentioned like extroverts bringing more introverted people into the circle.
Speaker 1:That's something that I try to be aware of too, because I've actually been to an event where I was one of the like I didn't know anybody there and I remember walking up to a circle of people that was kind of open and starting to introduce myself and watching the circle close and like people turned their backs to me and I went oh wow, I'm super uncomfortable now and I don't feel very welcome. And then I sat down and like stayed away from them. So and I don't think that they did it on purpose. I don't think that they saw me and they went like what the fuck is this weirdo doing trying to talk to us? I don't think they even knew who I was, but that was such a notable experience at a live event that I vowed that in there to like to the best of my ability to not ever be that person that turns their back on someone else that's trying to butt in, like I love that.
Speaker 1:Make the circle a horseshoe guys.
Speaker 2:Make the circle a horseshoe. That's the sound I agree.
Speaker 1:We haven't talked hardly anything about the business, but I love this. This is the best possible way we could have spent this time, but this has been fantastic. Please tell us more where we can learn about copy confidence and maybe figure out what our personality type is.
Speaker 2:Yes. So the best thing is you want to get like a taste for what we do inside of the society. I would say there's like two places. Number one is to come to the copy chat Facebook group. That's a great place where we I'm live in there every week I talk about copy stuff, but we're also talking about like this like well, people are watching on Netflix it's been going on on the road trip what Taylor Swift song you might be into or not into at the time. And then over on Instagram I'm at mtony T-O-N-I, like Tony Braxton, and I always tell people DM me on there. I always love to know, like, if there was something that stood out to you from what we talked about or something that you heard maybe you heard it before, but heard it in a different way and I will personally respond back to you, and so I always just love to know what's resonating. Yeah, so come on over to the copy chat Facebook group and or find me on Instagram and, yeah, tell me if you're an extrovert?
Speaker 1:or an extrovert yeah, that's a great way to kick off the conversation. Or an ambivert yeah, or ambivert we're a lot of people learning about ambivert now. It's an interesting conversation. I'm going to make sure that they have there's going to be clickable links in the show notes so that they can follow up pretty easily. I encourage everybody listening to reach out, start that conversation, get to know Marisa Cause she's a fucking badass and thank you so much for being on the show. We're definitely going to have to do a follow up because we've got so much more to talk about.
Speaker 2:Anytime, happy to do it. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:That's all for now. If you want to keep that kick ass energy high, please take a minute to share this episode with someone that might need a high octane dose of you can do it. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to the permission to kick ass podcast on Apple podcast, spotify and wherever you stream your podcasts. I'm your host, angie Coley, and I'm here rooting for you. Thanks for listening and let's go kick some ass.