Welcome to the Cultivating Growth Podcast, where each week we discuss different ways in which we can grow as followers of Christ. This week, we have Andy Cantrell joining us to discuss how we can grow in the study of God's Word. We'll tackle questions like, where should I even begin with my Bible study?

And how much should I read each time? How do I overcome resistance that I'll inevitably face? It was a joy to discuss these questions and more with Andy, and I'm excited to share the conversation with everyone today. So with that, let's get right to it. 

Thank you everyone for joining us again today. Um, I've got Jeremy here with me as always, but today we also have a guest with us. Andy Cantrell, who's been holding a gospel meeting for us this weekend, is joining us today. And we're going to be talking about growing in our Bible study. How do we become better Bible students?

How do we grow in our appreciation and our understanding of the word? And so that's where the discussion today. Is going to go. And that's, that's a big topic and we can go a lot of different directions with it. And we'll talk a lot of, uh, about a lot of different aspects of Bible study and, and why it's important and why this is a topic worth spending some time on.

So, Andy, I'll put the first question to you since you're our guest today. Uh, obviously you've been a Bible student for a long time, but what drew you to that initially? What was, what was kind of the, the motivation for you, uh, to pick up the Bible? And to really begin studying it, to treat it as something that is an important part of your life and that you realize a need to spend time in it.

Where did that come from for you?  Well, I grew up on the pews, you know, um, as a kid going to church and we had Bible classes as a kid. And, uh, I really don't remember much about all of that until, uh, I went through some things in my life that,  that made life difficult. You know, my mom passed away when I was young and she had given me a Bible the year before she died.

Uh, I was about 10 years old at that point.  And I remember, um, My relationship with God's word really changing because I had to find something, you know, I was hurting. I was, I was sad. I was confused about things. And I, um, I started going to God's word. Finally, I think, you know, even though I was young, more for hope and for healing and knowing that I needed, you know, I needed to hear what it had to say. 

A lot of that was based on commendation. You know, there's times in scripture where you read about people commending the word of God to others. When Paul said goodbye to those Ephesian elders and he commended them to God and the word of his grace,  you know, in a sense, my mom had commended. The word to me before she left.

And, um, I, I had a good example of a father who was a good Bible student. You know, my dad wasn't someone who had been highly educated. He'd only gone through high school, but  probably one of the wisest men I ever knew, even without all that extra education. And all I ever really saw him read was scripture.

So, you know, those commendations and then the, the difficulties in my life kind of drove me.  To, to the word, but I don't ever remember it after that being something I felt like I had to do  it. It was something that I got to do and something that I enjoyed, you know, doing. Um, we may talk about this a little bit more, but  I,  I wasn't so much of a Bible reader.

Or sort of a student of, as I was a meditator on the word.  And I do find it interesting that scripture speaks more about meditation than it does study. And I think that's one of the, maybe one of the things that happens to a lot of people nowadays is they think, Oh, I need to study. I need to sit and read. 

And what I, what I think, you know, would do a lot of Christians well, or would help is if they wouldn't read so much. Uh, they would maybe read less and think more, um, people that loved the word of God throughout human history didn't always have access to it. You know, they'd have to go hear it read publicly, and then you'll, you'll, you'll see the Old Testament often saying blessed is the man who meditates. 

So I, I, you know, as a kid, I would read a little, you know, maybe I'd read some things during the morning or during the day or some thoughts from scripture.  But then I'd go, you know, surf and I'd sit on my surfboard and think about what the word was about and why did God say it like this? And why didn't he say this?

And, you know, I'd, I'd spin those things over in my head. And,  uh, I think that did me a lot of good. Uh, I still am like that with my own studies for preparing for classes and sermons. I'm not a scholar. I don't read tons of books about the Bible. I do some. You know, there's certainly helps I need, but  most of what I do is I just, I'll look at a text, and I'll look at the text again, and I'll think about the text, and, uh, and sort of marinate on it for a long time, and there's lots of truths that start to, to sort of become apparent when you do that, so.

That really indicates.  A love for what you have in front of you to recognize the need to meditate and to think about it. If you read a novel, I know Jeremy, you're a big reader, you read a novel, you read it for entertainment sake, or maybe you're reading non fiction for the sake of learning about history. 

And you glean some things from it, you enjoy it, and then you set it aside and you move on to the next thing.  But we treat the Bible differently because we realize what's in front of us. And it demands meditation and thought and concentration and focus because  We recognize we're reading the words of God, and it impacts us differently than reading a novel does.

Yeah, I mean, that focus, you know, for me, just listening to, you know, Andy, I mean, our upbringings have been very similar. You know, I grew up, you know, writing a pew, right? And my parents are both great Bible students, and so I had that example in front of me for a long time. And I went to Bible classes, and so you're learning those stories, you know, you're just, you know, you're kind of picking up, you know, the stories and things that are happening, but probably for me, that really Kind of switched my mindset. 

on God's word and really how different, how different it is from, you know, just a novel, you know, that I still read solely for entertainment in a lot of ways. But it was that, you know, probably when I was a teenager and you start to realize  there's stuff in here that's helpful, right? There's some practicality to it.

It's not, it's not just, you know, some, some neat stories. There, there are. Certainly that. But it's now become more than that. And you start to see that man, this can really have an impact on my life. And if I start listening to some of these things that I'm reading and meditating about, man, it can have a positive impact on, you know, my life.

And so when you start to kind of look at it that way, it It can make a big difference pretty quickly, and, you know, it's interesting the point that Andy makes about meditation. You know, it's one of those things I've thought a lot more about as I've gotten older, for sure. But, uh, there is. There's so much more, almost, about meditating upon God's Word than reading it.

You've got to be able to read it in order to meditate upon it, for sure. But, you know, we've used You know, Psalm 1, just in this podcast about growth, right? We've made reference to Psalm 1, you know, a couple of times.  And, you know, I always find it interesting that, you know, you think about the Book of Psalms and,  you know, sometimes when people are like, well, you know, it's kind of disjointed, it's about a whole bunch of different things, and they kind of stand on their own.

And to a point that's true, but  What is similar? It is relationship. That's what the book of Psalms is. It's relationship with God. And it's, to me, it's always been interesting how this incredible book, 150 Psalms compiled for us in every way about our relationship with God. The very first one, I mean, the very first one, you know, paints the picture of this strong, growing analogy of the tree.

But it is, you know, his law. That he meditates on, day and night, that it is just, it envelops, you know, who they are. And when you, when you come to that understanding of, man, this really can impact my life, and you're able to see that, and you're applying it,  now that's where the delight comes, and the joy comes. 

You know, certainly. I mean, we grow, you know, in all things. I'm certainly much older now than I was, you know, 20, 30 years ago. But I just enjoy it now. There's so much more joy in opening up and thinking about it. And it, you know, it takes a little bit of time, you know, certainly to get to that spot. But, man, the turn is that understanding that boy can have a huge impact on. 

You know, every, every aspect, you know, certainly of your life. So, then I think it begs the question, then, Andy, how, how do you help someone  develop that love for God's Word that leads them to meditate on it? How, how do you, how do you help someone along the path? Or is it something that they have to come to on their own?

Are there ways in which we can help one another grow in our appreciation so that we have Uh, that same type of relationship with God's word that you were describing.  Can we help one another with that, or is that something that we each have to come to on our own?  Well, yeah, like I said, you know, there's, there's commendation that people make about God's word.

But if, if you've ever met someone who has genuine peace in their life, or goes through something difficult, and, uh, shines through it, and, or they just have kindness, and you, and you really sort of are attracted to the light of that person's life. And then they say, well, yeah, this comes from the word of God that's in me and, you know, we can help each other in that way.

That's the way that God designed it.  I was thinking as you guys were talking, though,  I remember, I don't remember when I first heard this, but I use it now when I, when I teach classes about how to study the Bible, how to read the Bible.  Um, one of the questions I ask in that is if you ever got a love letter from someone, how would you read it?

And of course, one time there was a guy that was like, well, what if you never got a love letter? Like,  well, imagine if you did. Um, but if you, if you've ever had that, like a point in your life or someone that you really, uh, were excited about or you knew, cared about, you gave you a note or gave you a letter, you know, you probably didn't just crumple it up and throw it away.

You probably read it. A number of times  and you, and you'd read it in certain ways, like you'd, you'd say like, why did they say it like that? And why didn't they say this? And you know, you'd, and then you'd share it with, like, you'd tell other people, you know what they said about this? Like there's, there's a way to come at God's word that like you said, you recognize that God wants to have a relationship with you.

He cares deeply about you.  Um, and so some of those kinds of things, I think help.  Uh, I was also, um,  when it comes to helping each other, uh,  in scripture, you have times where the writers will say, like, I'm thinking of James one here. Don't be hearers of the word only be doers of the word.  And I know for me, when I really began to buy in to the word of God and appreciate it  is not just when I maybe see the, the beauty of the.

The stories or the way it's put together. But if I really take it and say, all right, I'm going to practice this. I'm going to do what this says.  And then I realized, Oh, this is powerful and God's right about this. And I really appreciate the changes that it's made. Um, it'd be the difference between somebody picking up a cookbook and reading it and being like, well, this is interesting versus the person that's like, yeah, I'm actually going to like.

I'm going to cook this. I'm going to use these ingredients. I'm going to do the thing. And then they get to eat the food that they made. And they're like, this is amazing. You know? Yeah. Um, so scripture will put a high priority on meditation and obedience and putting the word of God to the test.  And any one of us that have really done that, knowing that it's coming from a place of love, from God, uh, we're going to develop an appetite for it, you know.

I think it's, what you're describing is kind of that lighthouse effect where the, the power to help someone grow in their knowledge and appreciation of God's word comes more from the example we set with our. Relationship with God's word more so than telling someone you need to do this or this will be good for you That that may have a certain amount of benefit, but that's certainly gonna be limited Whereas when someone can see it in you and see what it's done for you That's where true impact is going to come as you try and help someone else along that route  yeah, I mean it's you know, we talk about this all the time right and in the example that That we have in our lives and people are watching you and developing a question about the way that you handle the situation or the way that you've dealt with something that, you know, those are the greatest questions that you could ever get right.

You know, when somebody is like, Hey, I know you're going through this difficult thing and you're handling it now in a very unique kind of way. Can you tell me, you know, how is that even possible? Well, now you're, you put yourself in a position to. You know, now you're, you're opening, you can open up, you know, God's Word, and let me tell you how I'm able to, this is, you know, this book right here has been everything for me at this time, right?

We, we talk about that when it comes to salvation, and rightly so, that we can, we open this book and we're able to share, you know, salvation, but we can share life. I mean, that's every aspect of life.  You know, you have somebody to ask you about your marriage or ask you about parenting or the way that you, you know, deal with your neighbors or the way that you handle yourself at work.

I mean, every question like that is an opportunity to say, well, you know, it's coming from here. And so now you're drawing, you know, people to God's word and to a relationship with it. And I think that's, you know, a lot of ways where we are, right? I mean, it is, it's more than just, hey, you know, I read a book and I put it back on my shelf. 

You know, I'm, I'm entertained, or, you know, maybe I'm moved in some way by that story, but when it comes to the Bible, you know, God's book that's in front of us, it is, it is garnering that relationship with it. And I love the, you know, analogy of the love letter. We see that in movies all the time, right? You know, somebody goes away to, to war, and they're writing their, their wife back, you know, at home, and she's collected all of those letters, and they're in a book.

And, you know, we see that montage of her pulling them out and she's reading through. I mean, it's a great analogy. I mean, it is exactly now she has a relationship with those letters, right, with that person through those letters.  And that's how it is with God, right? With that, it is, it enhances our relationship with God through his words right here.

And it can become something pretty special pretty quick. Yeah. I think the, the reality that. Without communication, there is no relationship. It is so important for us to recognize. It's not that my relationship with God will be better if I spend time in God's Word. It's that I can't have a relationship with God outside of His Word.

This is how He's chosen to communicate with me. Just as I spend time in prayer communicating with Him. He has communicated with mankind through his word. And so in the absence of that in my life, there's no relationship. If I, if I only talk to my wife, but I never listened to what she says, well, there, there's not going to be a relationship there.

It's going to be very superficial at best. And, and the same is true as, as proclaimed followers of Christ. If we want to have a relationship with God,  and maybe we spend a lot of time talking to him.  But we don't sit and allow him to speak to us and to meditate on what he is saying and what it means to us and why he chose to say it this way.

Well then one half of that relationship is missing and that relationship will never be what God wants it to be. to be because that aspect of that relationship is missing. And so one of the things that I think is, is that important as we're talking about this is recognizing we all come to this appreciation of God's word differently and at different stages in our life.

But I think if we're all honest with ourselves, we've also had to overcome a lot of obstacles along the way, uh, whether that's as a young person or as someone who is, who is older. We've all faced obstacles with embracing God's Word that way and really appreciating it for what it is and meditating upon it and spending time in it.

And so, how do we help people overcome some of the obstacles that they face? Maybe someone is saying, yeah, I hear what you're saying and I really want to do that. I really want to spend more time in God's Word. I really want it to envelop me so I'm thinking about it all day long. I'm just I'm just not there.

I'm facing some resistance in some way.  How do we help people overcome some of that resistance and obstacles?  So, um, I'm not sure if this is going to mess anybody up or anything or you guys, but  I think actually one of the mistakes that is made is a push sometimes to make people feel like they need to read the Bible in a year.

For example, I mean, every year there's always like a, Hey, here's a program to read the Bible in a year. And people are like, Oh, great goal. Let's do that. Let's try that. You know, and many people have started and they phase out somewhere. halfway through Exodus or into Leviticus or, you know, or whatever it is.

Um, and then some people have conquered it, you know, some people have done it and they read the whole Bible in a year and they feel really good. But here's my question about that. Do you remember what you read in a year? That's, that's an awfully fast pace.  Um, some of the obstacles I think are obstacles that I put on people as a preacher and as a Bible teacher.

I make it such a daunting thing, um, by creating what I would just call arbitrary goals for Bible study.  Um, what some people should probably be doing,  instead of trying to read the Bible in here, is reading the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5 through 7.  Every day for three months, you know, or just make it that make that the, the year you're going to have is to pour over the words of Jesus in that sermon. 

And again, don't just hear them or try to understand them or look up the words that you don't understand or whatever. But, but like Jesus says at the end of the sermon. Blesses the man who hears these words and does them, you know, read about, um, loving your enemies and turning the other cheek and read about, you know, not calling people fools and, you know, and, and, and just, and, and work on it for the year and don't be surprised if you get to the end of, you know, uh, your year of that kind of study and, you know, Lifestyle and you're not in love with something about God's word that you've never been in love with before.

So  again, some of the obstacles are we make it such an academic pursuit or we, we  are, we're asking people to bite off far more than they can chew.  Uh,  and maybe it's because I'm just, I'm just not that smart or I'm not that gifted a reader, but none of that ever really did much for me. Um,  taking bits and pieces of God's word, um, and really focusing on them and trying to master them and understand them and live them, uh, has been, you know, helped me get over some of those obstacles.

Yeah, I think for me, I mean it  I'm in this much the same way. I'm certainly wouldn't classify myself as a scholar  in any capacity, but you think about even, I was going to say religious culture, but I mean, it's been almost all time since there's been scripture is you've had, you know, almost religion trying to convince the people that this is too much for you, that this is something that you can't, you know, you can't handle.

I mean, that's, you know, Historically, you know, well known. That's where the Catholic Church was for the longest time, right? Nobody can understand it. You can't read it for yourself. It's just an impossible task. But I think there's still a lot of that, you know, still even today that  you look at the book and, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot there.

There's a lot of words. There's a lot of pages. There's a lot going on. And I think within us, for whatever reason,  We attack it with that mentality in a lot of ways. This is too much that I can't understand that. There's so many books that have been written about it by really smart people, and if they had to have had those books written about it, maybe they're the ones equipped to understand it, and I just can't.

So you're going into it kind of with that mentality of, it's just, I'm not equipped to take something. I'm not equipped to understand it.  And, you know, you think about, you know, I think about that a lot.  And, you know, what I come away with, I'm like, well, what kind of God would that have been if, if he would have provided something for us that the average person just isn't equipped to grab hold of it?

They're just, it just isn't. You have to have, you know, so many degrees or you have to have so much intellect. And if you're able to reach that, then you're able to open up, you know, God's word and to really grab hold of it. And I think, I mean, what kind of God would have done that? I mean, that, that would have been sinister.

You know, almost in a lot of ways,  but I was to kind of help with that obstacle. I always just try to tell people, I mean, don't, don't turn off your brain when you read it. Don't turn off logic. Don't turn off common sense. You know, a lot of times, most of the time when you read a passage, you can come away pretty quickly with, you know, that, that makes sense to me in this capacity.

You don't overthink it. Don't overcomplicate it. And I think to your point that you started, uh, I'm not a huge. Uh, fan of the read the Bible in a year. It just, it's those, the chunks that you're chewing off are so enormous  and you become beholden to that checklist, right? It becomes just pushing through the day just to get through the day, you know, at that point, but pull something, you know, much more manageable, right?

A few verses, a chapter, you know, and I love the idea of the same few verses over a Period of time or the same chapter over a period of time. I mean it is a life pursuit  Reading and studying and meditating upon God's Word not a year long pursuit or a three month pursuit It is a life pursuit. And so you've got to put it in, you know, those manageable chunks and You've got to you've got to go in it With the attitude of, God wants me, He wants me to apply, He wants me to pull, He wants me to understand, He wants all of that, and so He's given me a book that I can, that I can grab hold of, and just, just kind of switching that mentality.

Uh, I think can make a big difference. And I, I've found, you know, as I, especially as I've gotten older,  at different points in my life, different things are going on, and I'm being drawn to different parts of God's Word as a result of that. If I'm going through something in my life and, and Proverbs speaks to that, or some of Paul's writings speak to that, or, or the Sermon on the Mount speaks to that, I'm being drawn to those parts of Scripture.

Because of what's going on in my life. And I would say, lean into that. I would say, don't, don't be beholden to the checklist. Well, you know, I know Proverbs has a lot to say about what I'm dealing with right now, but I'm actually in Deuteronomy today.  Well, lean into letting God speak to whatever is going on in your life.

And I think that is really brings to light the, the living aspect of God's word. It is living and it's active in my life. And so we shouldn't be surprised when we're drawn to different parts of God's word, depending on where we are in our life and what's going on. What we're facing and the challenges that we're encountering, uh, God, God is working through us through his word.

And so we, we should lean into that and allow him to teach us and lead us through his word, depending on where we are. And so I, you know, I'm a, I'm a big fan of just allowing the situations of your life to lead you through scripture in a lot of ways, and others benefits, obviously in, in studying through the Bible and in an organized fashion, I'm.

Not in any way trying to demean that. I think that there is importance to that. But day by day if you're facing a challenge or you're having certain feelings and it's You recognize that there are parts of scripture that really speak to that  Sit down and think about that meditate on that I think that's really where a lot of the power of the Bible is unlocked in our lives on a very personal level is when we Make that connection that God understands what I'm going through and he has spoken about that this.

And he has words of wisdom to lead me through these times and to give me strength where I need strength. That's, that's a different level of connection to God's word than, you know, the more academic approach to it that, that sometimes we take. But that, that is something that I think it comes with time in a lot of ways. 

I didn't, I didn't necessarily experience that as much when I was younger as I do now, and that's something that I've grown into over time. And so I think there's some realization that some of these things grow with time that, you know, you described an experience where you were very young and, and you began to develop that relationship with God's word.

And so it happens at different points of people's lives. And I think there's some, some patience and grace that, that needs to be extended as each of us kind of explore that on our own. Uh, but I do think that's something that we should recognize as part of God's power in his word is, is leading us, uh, during some of these times where we're struggling.

So that kind of leads us then to, to the next question, which is,  what are the expectations that we should have of one another and of others, of ourselves? Most importantly, but you know, we were just talking about how our love and appreciation for God's word grows and at different points in our lives.  So if you're looking inward or looking at someone else trying to help lead them, is it appropriate to have some expectations about where they are in their appreciation and love for God's word and their study of it?

Um, how do we, how do we approach? That topic of having expectations for ourselves and for others when it comes to the love and appreciation of God's word. Andy, what do you think about that?  So I'm not, you know, I'm not sure who all listens, uh, in on this. And so I don't know your situation, where you are, where you live.

Um,  but where I, where I, where I worship and where I work, the congregation up there in Northwest in, um, New Hope, Minnesota,  you know, the elders. Um, put a lot of thought into the Bible curriculum that we have. And so for example, right now in this quarter on Sunday mornings, the adults are studying the gospel of Mark,  uh, just for a quarter.

So we're going to, we're going to move through Mark fairly quickly. And then we're studying the book of Job on Wednesday nights for two quarters. And that's still pretty quick to go through the book of Job, you know, a couple of chapters a week.  We have a lot of new Christians in Minnesota, people who've been come to the Lord in the last few years. 

And the idea of Bible study for them is overwhelming, you know, and Bible reading and all that kind of stuff. And so one of the things I tell them is just really pour yourself into the, into the, into the, the, the work for the week, you know, like instead of thinking in terms of, I gotta, not only do I have to like do my Bible lessons, but I got to read through the Bible in here.

Do my own personal studies on this and this and this and this,  you know, let the shepherds feed you. They're trying to think about how to feed the flock. So  studying this section of Mark that you've got in your booklet and then look at the text and read it every day and try to come up with answers for the questions and be thoughtful about your observations. 

And I really think that if most people would just set that as an expectation for themselves, They would find themselves growing in lots of good ways. I'll give you an example. We recently converted  a Russian girl, uh, and her husband who's, um, from Belarus. And, you know, they're, they're new to scripture and she in fact still doesn't even read English very well.

So she's got like a Russian English parallel.  And this is the advice that I gave her when she was feeling overwhelmed by it. It's like, why don't you just, just work on your Bible lessons for class.  She's coming to class. like far more energetic and prepared than people have been, you know, Bible students for 30, 40 years.

And she's making amazing observations. And if you were to ask her like, well, what are you doing? She's like, well, I'm just, I'm doing my Bible lessons. You know, that's the expectation. I'm, I'm, I'm letting the life of this church and the shepherds forethought about feeding us.  I'm just leaning into that and finding all kinds of things she needs as a new Christian in.

in her studies.  So I guess that's one answer I'd give to some of that. That's a great example where some structure and some appropriate expectations have really been beneficial to someone. And so you were, we're kind of talking about different ways that is, it helps different people. That's a situation where that structure was very, very helpful.

So, I mean, Jeremy, have you experienced some of the same things?  Or what are some, maybe some expectations you would see are appropriate? Yeah, I think almost similar to, you know, prayer in a lot of ways. I mean, a lot of times we'll talk about, you know, these two topics in similar kind of manners, for sure.

And, you know, there's one word that, to me, comes to the forefront. Certainly in this expectation land, if you will, with both prayer and study, is to try to get people to focus first on becoming regular. And maybe that regular looks different, you know, for, you know, for a lot of people. Maybe it's, you've never opened up God's word.

And, and looked at it, you just never done that and opening it up, you know, for the very first time now is something, you know, very different for you and then doing it the second time, you know, now, and so to kind of put yourself in a position of,  it's just something now regularly that, that I'm doing right.

It's just something now it's becoming a part. of who I am. And so, you know, maybe, you know, going to, you know, Andy's, uh, analogy of, you know, doing your Bible lesson, maybe you're doing a Bible lesson on, you know, Wednesday and you're doing that on Wednesday afternoon, or you're doing a Bible lesson on Saturday night or Sunday morning, you know, before you go to services and that, and that's where you've been.

And, uh, and now you're adding.  Uh, Tuesday evening and you're reading that passage or you're adding Friday afternoon and you're reading, you know, that passage and you know, you're, you're doing something, you know, kind of manageable, right? And so you're, you're trying to build yourself into regular, right?

You're trying to build yourself into this is a part of who you are. You know, listen, we, we, we throw a throw around words like habits and things like that. I think those words scare people sometimes  because it. You know, it carries, you know, a connotation to it,  but it's in that same, similar vein, right?

You're, you're trying to become, uh, regular and I love the idea that you threw out it. And, you know, I think about it all the time and have not articulated in the way that Andy did, but of allowing your worshiping at a place that has elders, we do here, you know, at Trader's Point, they've. Also put together a Bible class curriculum, and you know, it's certainly that's helpful in the moment when we're here on Wednesdays or when we're here on Sundays, but leaning into that throughout the week, right, can be helpful.

That work, that thought has been done and provided for you, and now, you know, lean into that a little bit. And that, man, and you know, you talk to people all the time, we feel it ourself when you're  You've read that passage a few times, and you've come to Bible class, and now you've spent 45 minutes or 50 minutes in discussion of that passage that maybe you've read, you know, three or four times the, you know, the three or four days before. 

I mean, those 45 or 50 minutes become a very different thing, a very different moment than when you weren't doing that before. And that's been given to us right there in front of you. Something easy to certainly to begin, uh, you know, to kind of be thinking about. Yeah, I've always, the, the consistency part of this has always been personally so important for me, you know, to, to give a, an example.

If you were to go to the gym. And you worked out super hard for six hours.  But then you didn't work out anymore for the rest of the month. You just sat in a recliner for the rest of the month. Well, you're not in any better shape at the end of that month than you were when you started. And you worked out really, really hard for longer than most people spend in the gym one time. 

But if you don't work out consistently, and you don't bite off things that are manageable,  So that it becomes something that can be long term, a positive influence in your life. Well, then you might as well just stayed home that one time. I mean, maybe there were some minimal benefits. You were probably sore for a few days.

But you have to develop something that's consistent and sustainable in order for it to have a real impact on your life. And I really think, you know, we talk about studying God's Word. Is a lifelong endeavor in order for it to really become that and to have those impacts on us, uh, throughout our lives,  we have to develop a consistent practice around it.

And that means doing study that's manageable, not asking someone. Who's just becoming familiar with God's word to go and read 15 chapters from Ezekiel. That's, that's not sustainable for that individual. And so, because it's not sustainable, it's not going to be something that they do consistently. And therefore the benefits are going to be limited as a result of that.

And so what can we do to help people recognize you need to approach God's word in a way. That it becomes something that you can do consistently every single day. It's manageable, and it becomes something that you look forward to, and that helps grow your appreciation for what it is. Those are really important things, I think, to teach people at an early stage, wherever that is, that they become familiar with God's word. 

Teach them to approach it that way, because I think long term that's going to pay dividends for them. They're not going to get burnt out as quickly. They're not going to feel overwhelmed as easily, and it's something that I think is going to be helpful for them long term.  Any other thoughts on that idea of just expectations, how we can help people  develop healthy habits around this? 

So I'll just say, you know, I, I have the benefit of getting to, uh, spend all of my time in Bible study and teaching. And, you know, I'm a fully supported gospel preacher minister. Like  most people don't have that, you know, they're, they're working. A job, or they're a mom with kids, or they've got lives that are filled with all kinds of other things.

And maybe this gets back a little bit to the meditation thing and expectation. Uh, I heard a story one time told is true. Uh, I got no reason to doubt it, but,  uh, there was this man and wife. He was a farmer. They'd wake up early in the morning and eat breakfast together and read, read a little bit of scripture and usually read like whatever was going to be the Bible class coming up for that week.

And  then the husband would go off and get in the tractor and be in the field for, you know, from Before the sun came up to be after the sun went down and the wife, um, would spend a lot of time in Bible study. She'd, you know, she'd spend hours sometimes like looking at the scriptures and pulling out books and doing things  and then they would go to class and  Uh, the husband had all kinds of interesting things to say in class and this conversation took place on the way home one day and she was kind of upset  and said, I don't understand.

Like you have all these great insights and I'm the one that studies way more than you.  And he said, you don't study more than me. And she said, you only have like the morning to spend it. In the word. And he said, what do you think I'm doing all day out in the tractor and on the field? Like I'm, I'm thinking about what we read and I'm spinning it around in my head.

So again, going back to expectations,  the key to this is what are we doing with our hearts and in our minds with God's word? Not necessarily how many hours are we putting into having it open in front of us,  if we're genuinely. You know, chewing on it and eating it or ingesting it, you know, with our hearts.

Um, so that might be something I'd throw out there about expectation. And it may be almost, you know, it may be a practical thing to kind of go with that. What may then help us is thinking about  ingesting something. In the morning as your day begins right ingesting something, you know, even a few verses, you know, you read or chapter not anything crazy long, but something then in the morning that now can you can sit on, you know, as your day, you know, as your day progresses doing, you know, what it is, you know, whatever that you're doing, you know, maybe, you know,  It would be surprised, I think, you know, how many times maybe that passage pops up in your mind, you know, throughout the day and man, it's just, it continues to work on you and it can really have a profound impact just thinking about whatever, you know, whatever that passage was that you read maybe earlier that day.

Yeah, I mean, that takes us to the whole point of why we do this. I spend time in God's Word because it Has the power to change me to be more like him. You know, it's not, it's not a textbook. Uh, it's not a novel. Now, there are a lot of historical aspects to God's word, and there's a lot of narrative to God's word,  but it is different.

Than any other book I pick up because it has the power to make me more like my creator and and that is Ultimately my goal. I want my life and who I am to look like God and who he is and so when I recognize that And come to terms with that, that's going to draw me in. And you're right, you know, as you guys have both said, maybe that's a couple verses at a time.

Maybe that's a chapter at a time. Maybe that's a book at a time. But, but I'm approaching God's word as this is the power of God to change me. From the inside out, He can change who I am. When I spend time in His word and I'm I'm thinking about it throughout the day, and I'm thinking about, you know, when he said that, what does that look like in my life, or, you know, what did Jesus mean when he said this on the Sermon on the Mount, you know, or how does that, how does that apply to this situation that I find myself in? 

That's when  that relationship with God's Word, I think, really becomes what God intends for it to be. And I think we could be surprised. I mean, listen, the mind is a magnificent thing that God has created. And there's a lot that can go in there that we don't even know. I mean, you know, listen, it is the You know, the classic, you know, song that you haven't heard in 20 years, and it pops on the radio, and suddenly, you know, those words are in there, right?

It's a magnificent thing, the mind is, on what, you know, so if we're putting stuff in there, and we're thinking about it, I mean, we never, we may not know. A year, two years, three years, whatever circumstance may pop up, and now that that passage or that thought that God has given to us that we've put into our mind now pops out and how incredibly helpful that that can be.

I mean, it is, you know, Jesus being tempted in the wilderness, right? I mean, it is. You know, dealing with those temptations and he's, he's combating that with Scripture that that's the way that it can work. And it's not just, well, I'm certainly glad I was reading, you know, that passage, you know, an hour ago to have that ready.

Maybe you read that  a year ago. But now, you know, the the beautiful mind that God has created is helping us. That man, that thing is popping out right when I need it. And uh, it, it, uh, You know, listen, I don't understand how all that works,  but I don't have to, you know, to know how incredible, you know, a moment like that can be, you know, Well, we'll start to wrap this thing up, but Andy, any closing thoughts on anything that we've talked about today?

Anything you want to leave people with before we stop?  You know, we, I started this whole thing by bringing up meditation and some of the things we keep coming back to with this, uh, we have a word that we use sometimes, uh, the word ruminate, which is a lot like the word meditate, but it also is used of animals that chew their cud, you know, so I like to tell Christians, think of like Bible study as you being more like, you know, you have seven stomachs, so, you know, uh, you eat it and then you, yeah.

You know,  sort of regurgitate it back up and chew on it for a while and then you swallow it again and then you spit it up again and chew on it and, you know, we don't really have that in, in our human anatomy and our stomachs, but all of us have eaten a burrito and a few hours later burped and been like, Oh, I remember that carne asada.

Like,  but if you, if you legitimately come at, at, at feeding on the word of God with those concepts, you know, uh, whether that's in the morning, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to pick something out and chew on it and think about it,  um, purposefully throughout the day, bring it back to your mind.

We fill our lives with so much noise. I think, you know, I tell Christians  when I was a teenager, I really I turned a corner with Bible study when I, um, stopped listening to the radio all the time on my, when I was driving around, I'd turn it off. I'd go through the books of the Bible in my head. I'd say, you know, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus numbers, and I'd say the books of the Bible.

And then I'd go, all right, Genesis, what do I remember about that book? And I'd talk through the care, you know, the, the characters and try to remember what I could.  Or just thinking about whatever I had read that day, um, spend some of the, the time that you have instead of filling it with, you know, music and Netflix and, or mindless other things and, and purposefully bring God's word into your, into your thought process.

I mean, that's a, listen, it's a phrase we use, right? I mean, it's in, it's in our, our verbiage, right? Chew on that. Hey, why don't you chew on that for a second? And it, that's where that comes from. And I think it's so helpful, you know, and a lot of times. It's most helpful if what you're chewing on is a smaller piece of scripture than trying to chew on, Well, listen, I've read the Gospel of John this morning, and I'm going to try to chew on all of John today.

Well, I mean, that's a lot of chewing, you know, but now you read the first, you know, 14 verses of Of John's Gospel, now you've got, you know, something that you can really, really, you know, kind of, you know, chew on and think about and wrestle with. And it can make a massive, massive difference, certainly in that area of meditation.

For sure. I love it. Well, we'll stop there. Thanks Andy for your thoughts today. Uh, and Jeremy really enjoyed the conversation and appreciate, appreciate you guys a lot and, uh, the wisdom and insight you bring to this topic. 

Thank you for listening this week. If you haven't already done so, we'd appreciate it if you would take just a second to subscribe to the podcast, whatever platform you're listening, rate and review the show so we can continue to spread the good news of Jesus as widely and effectively as possible.

Thanks again for joining us this week and we'll talk again next week. 

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