Welcome to the Cultivating Growth podcast, where each week we discuss different ways in which we can grow as followers of Christ. This week we have a special guest with us. Josh Lewis is going to join us to discuss how we can grow in our prayer life. So we're going to talk about different strategies and ways in which we can grow closer to God through our prayers.

We're excited to share this conversation with everyone. So with that, let's get to it.  Well, gentlemen, I certainly appreciate you guys being here and having the opportunity to be talking. about, certainly what we're talking about today in cultivating our growth when it comes to our prayers. We've talked about our Bible study already in the past, several weeks ago, and it's almost one of those things, when you talk about prayer and you talk about Bible study, and you ask people, everybody will answer, I can be more, I can grow in these areas.

And prayer is certainly one of those, but sometimes it also becomes  Kind of one of those things, I don't know exactly how to grow. I may know what it is, I may know how to do it, but how do you grow in our prayers? It's easy for us to understand how important it is, it's communication with God, we understand that, but I think it's interesting that, Even the disciples understood the potential to grow just in the simple passage when they ask Jesus to teach them to pray.

When they ask Jesus to teach them to pray, they're showcasing that here there is a way in which, you know, that I can grow. I think one of the things that stands out to me about that passage is their willingness to recognize a need to be taught. And obviously they're speaking there to the perfect teacher in Jesus himself.

But I think it's appropriate for us even to talk to one another the same way and to talk to someone who is older and more experienced and clearly has a very deep, meaningful prayer life. Can you teach me, can you, can you help me grow in this? This is something I want to grow in. I want to grow closer to God in my prayers.

Can you teach me some things? I think that's an appropriate question to ask of someone who is more experienced and certainly has spent more time in prayer. And I think sometimes we may shy away from that because it feels kind of awkward to ask someone to teach you to pray. But the fact that the disciples saw a need.

To learn from Jesus in that area, I think is an example for us to do the same thing. And so whether it's conversations like this, where you're just discussing prayer in a more generic way, or if it's private conversations that you have with an older Christian and someone who's more experienced in those areas, don't be afraid to just ask them, can you show me some things, talk to me about some things that have worked for you?

That have been effective in your life and, and teach me. I think that can be really helpful. Josh, what do you think about that?  I was thinking the exact same thing in terms of how awkward that might be to ask somebody. caUse I was just imagining myself, cause I have that same struggle and I was just imagining what it would feel like.

Cause I don't think I've ever done that to walk up to someone and be like, Hey. I know I need to pray.  Can you show me how to, how you do that? Cause prayer is such an intimate thing. I think that's one of those basic things that we understand about it, right? Is that this, this sort of personal, private endeavor, right?

It's your relationship with God. It's not someone else's. And so that feels, I think there's a, there's an aspect to that that is rightly isolating. It's just you and God, and that's how it should be. But maybe one of the negative side effects is we don't really involve In the learning component, others, like maybe we could,  but I guess when that happens with Jesus,  I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm then asking the question to myself that I'll kick to you guys is  what made that not awkward for them?

What made that like a natural question for them to ask Jesus? And so I was turning to that text. I found it in Luke 11.  And it says Jesus was praying in a certain place and when he finished, one of his disciples said to him, Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples. And it kind of brought me to a little bit of a chicken and egg situation, right?

I need to be a praying person. And I need to be willing to ask people to pray. But if you're not a praying person, when am I going to ask you if you're not praying, because Jesus is there to ask because they're watching him pray. Right. So it's like, if none of us are praying, we don't have anyone to see praying.

Then we won't ask them to pray and then none of us are praying. So it's like, well how do we get this going? Yeah, yeah. Well I do think it's, there is something to be said for just doing it. And, you know, in that sense, especially as you are growing and learning as a new Christian and you're really developing that relationship with God.

God, I would say that there isn't necessarily a wrong way to do it except not doing it. And over time, the depth of those prayers is going to expand and the way in which we talk to God is growing, is going to grow more meaningful. But initially. Just just do it. Just talk to him. I think so many passages of scripture, especially when we read through the Psalms, and we can see just the intimate nature of those prayers.

It just shows us so clearly how God desires that relationship with his creation. And so he just he wants us communicating with him and just like a child. When you have little children and they're learning to talk, sometimes it's really hard to understand them. They're, they're trying to form sentences.

They're trying to form words, but you've got to listen really closely to even understand them. And, you know, Josh, even you, you've got, you've got little kids and, you know, they're at our house right now. And sometimes they'll say something and I didn't really understand what they said, but you did. Because you're around them all the time.

And so you're kind of hearing them more frequently. You understand them. And I think there's some similarities to our prayer life when we're, when we're an infant, so to speak in our relationship with God, our prayers may not be fully developed. And to anyone else, they may seem a little awkward and hard to understand, but yet God, our Father, can hear us and understand us.

And then as we grow, our speech becomes more clear, our vocabulary expands, and that relationship deepens. I think even, you know, just hearing this passage in Luke 11 that Josh had just kind of turned us to, and I was looking at it again, and we're sitting here at a table, we're having conversations about prayer, and we've talked about how it isn't a conversation we have to have.

Tons of just sitting down and saying, Hey, tell me about how, how it is that you pray. Well, what are some tips that, you know, maybe can help in my prayers? It just, it does seem to be a little bit more of an awkward conversation, certainly more so than we talk about a Bible study all the time on tips to, to better our Bible study, to increase that and to grow in that area.

But it seems that here in this passage, I think there's a point to be made that Seemingly this kind of talk is going on a lot. I mean, the disciples are seeing Jesus pray, and they say, you know, teach us to pray as John taught his disciples to pray, and so I think they're pointing out that this is a conversation that's going on, and certainly Jesus didn't seem bothered by this.

He wasn't turned off by this. He shared with them kind of how he goes about it. with this model prayer that he provides and then even follows that up with kind of a principle about persistence. I mean, even helps them even, you know, with the tip. And so I think it's good  certainly for us to be having this conversation and, and maybe to kind of employ, you know, the idea for everybody that's listening to be open to more of these kinds of conversations.

You know, one other thing I'll say, both of you guys use the word intimate in talking about. you know, prayer. And that's a big part of what it is. I mean, it is a personal thing. It's a huge part of what your relationship is to God. And I think there is a reality that the closer that you get to God,  the better your prayers are going to be.

It's, it's good. It's going to take place. And, and so when you're building upon your relationship, it in a meaningful way, a byproduct of that is your prayers are going to become more meaningful. And so really digging into that relationship, listen, your study is going to be more meaningful.  Your prayers are going to be more meaningful because that relationship itself is so meaningful. 

Would you say, Josh, think about, you know, the last, 20 years of your life as you've grown in your faith, grown in your understanding of God, grown in your relationship with him.  What, what would you point to as the biggest changes that you've seen in your own prayer life? Now, you're still relatively young, and so my guess is if I were to ask you this question again in another 20 years, your answer will probably be even different, but I think it's, it's interesting to think about, you know, where the disciples are in, in Luke 11, they're still in their infancy, so to speak, in terms of their relationship with their savior.

I wonder if in 20 years from where we are in Luke 11, there are probably other people now asking them a question like this, and they're able to draw on the experience that they've had. It's like, as you look at the last 20 years of your life, I mean, what, what changes? Should we see in our prayer life, what have you seen that grow, what areas of your prayer life have grown over those years in your life?

Well, first of all, I was a little put off by the question because the fact that you're positing to me that I could have 20 years of adult life prior to now just made me wake up to the fact that I'm, I'm getting older than I thought. But thank you for calling me young quickly after that. Thank you for it.

Yeah, it's a good question. It's I'm, not sure i've reflected on my own prayer life in that way So as you were talking I was really like pondering that and  I think maybe what's number one for me And maybe even kind of comes back to the chicken and egg thing that I I posed a moment ago Is as I grow closer to jesus because jesus Has modeled for us in such a unique and perfect way what it is to be close to God. 

I, I just notice more in like Bible studies that are abundant in my life. I notice more Jesus making time for prayer. You know, that that's always been something that you might like teach and you'll highlight, but like really kind of more deeply appreciating. Like Luke 11, one says that he just had a place that he did that. 

And it was usually from what we can tell a quiet place, a calm place, a singular kind of place for him. And so maybe in that regard,  the closeness of. Of Jesus in his last 20 years to notice that. And then also my own mimicking of that. I know that Jesus instructs us all, even in this text and sort of parallel ones in like Matthew six to find a similar sort of quiet closet like place to pray.

And so that's something that I've really tried to do for myself. Particularly in the last five or 10 years  as a, just a little something about me is I don't know what it is about prayer. And if Kirby ever listens to this prayer or this podcast, she can vouch for this. I have a hard time praying with people.

It's it's that personal barrier that I have it. I don't know something about that intimacy or that whatever I just have a hard time with it. Kirby has even to my face asked me like I wish you would pray with me more Mm hmm, and like it's it's just a really hard thing for me to do with her for whatever reason and she's my wife Imagine just some random person coming up to me and be like, hey, can you show me how to how you pray?

Right, that's just hard for me  And so in the years and answering this question in a long winded sort of way You  yeah, I've, I've really tried to mimic this quiet place because that's worked for me and my personality more recently. I'm trying to grow in a way that I'm inclusive of other people in my prayers.

Like I have small kids now, I have to show them how to pray, right? Like that is now number one on me, like, and so those are probably the two big areas is finding a quiet places. I've appreciated Jesus's instruction and then more recently opening up.  Myself to be seen praying not in a hypocritical vain way, but just in this instructive way for my children.

Those are the two areas that I've been focusing on lately. I think the, you know, the picture that we see of Jesus on that getting away to a quiet place, I think that is accentuating kind of how serious that time is. That, you know, he's not interested in distractions. And you could study, you know, through the Gospels, and I mean, Jesus was, they were full of distractions and things, you know, pulling at him just all the time.

And we see multiple times throughout Scripture, Jesus praying. It's mentioned lots of different times of him, him praying, and A vast majority, if not all of them,  is him going away to that quiet place. It is them not being able to find him and he was away praying or getting up early in the morning before anybody else and going out onto a mountain to pray.

Even at the very end in the garden, When he's, he has his disciples, and he takes not all, all 11 of them then, but he takes just three of them. But even leaves those three, and he himself goes further out, you know, where he can be by himself, you know, when he prays in the garden, you know, right before his crucifixion. 

And so I think that there is something about being able to find that connection. quiet place because of the seriousness of what's happening. And I think that's a big part of what Prairie is, is really understanding what's going on, right? If you can really comprehend what's happening, who it is that you're actually speaking to, it really can have a huge impact.

on the way that your prayers go, and so that really is one of the very first things that I think needs to happen, and that's an area that certainly people can grow in, is to really start to comprehend that, who am I speaking to? And when you can really grasp that, there's going to be immediate impact on your prayers themselves.

You know, I was just sitting here thinking as both of you were talking,  You know, my, my wife and I do this where if, if she and I need to talk about something important, then we may go in our room and close the door. So the kids don't bother us, or we may tell them, Hey, you guys need to go outside and play for a little while.

Cause you know, mommy and I need to talk about something for a little bit. We want that quiet time.  Where we can be uninterrupted and focused on one another to discuss something of value and importance. Well, that same thought process should carry over into our prayer life and really be magnified because now I'm talking to the creator of the universe, the sustainer of life, the giver of salvation, the one who can intercede on my behalf, I have an opportunity to talk to him. 

I want to do so uninterrupted and I want to be able to focus and give my all to the conversation that I need to have with my father in heaven. And so, yeah, I'm going to carve out some time and I'm going to make sure that it's quiet and that, you know, the kids aren't running around crazy. Now, that's not all.

Always possible. And we even have examples in scripture. I'm thinking of Nehemiah when he's talking to the King. He, he just seems to pray in the midst of conversation there. So briefly and quickly. And so it's not as if we have to do that every time there are going to be times and places where you given the circumstances, it may be kind of loud and it may be kind of crazy and it may be kind of short, whatever, but when we have the Ability and the opportunity, we need to carve out some of that quiet time so that we can really have an uninterrupted conversation with our father in heaven, just like we do with our spouses or, or anyone else that we want to have an important conversation with.

We tend to do so somewhere where it's quiet and somewhere where there aren't a lot of people around so that we can really give our all to that conversation. And so when we apply some of those same principles to our prayer life, I think that's where we see Jesus. setting that example for us of going up on a mountain or getting up early in the morning or staying up all night.

He's doing so, and there aren't other people around. And he has that time to just completely devote himself to what he has to say to God, because what he's really doing and what prayer is, it's an opportunity for that relationship to build between us and God. God speaks to us through his word, and he wants us to talk to him in prayer.

That's how relationships grow. That's how relationships are built through communication. And we have to make sure that we're giving it the appropriate time and space so that that communication can really be all that it should be. Yeah. All right. Well, before we close out, let's talk about maybe just some.

You know, some quick practical things that we can be thinking about as we move forward. I'll share a couple and then John and Josh, if you want to share a couple and then we'll we'll kind of close out our thoughts, you know, two of them that really kind of stand out to me  and both of these, interestingly,  from the beginning of our conversation on, you know, being able and open to have conversations about prayer.

Really, both of these came from other people long ago that's really made an impact. And one of them, you know, is I'll kind of get the easy one out of the way first is just take note When you're studying of the times that people are praying to God, take note of those. There are way more illustrations of people praying, talking to God than you could ever imagine that there are in Scripture.

I mean, going all the way back to literally at the very, very beginning from Adam and Eve and their discussions with God to the very end. I mean, it is full. And so take note of that. Take note of the circumstance, take note of the words that are used take note of the timing, take note of their posture.

I mean, take note of those things and I think that that certainly can have an impact. The second one that a good friend of mine several years ago now kind of laid on me from something that he did and it is now something I employ, I always struggled with it.  What to pray about genre wise almost is that do I need to include everything in these prayers and suddenly you're praying for long stretches of time and he had told me once that he almost breaks out, you know, his prayers into topics where he'll pray.

only a prayer of praise. He'll pray only a prayer of Thanksgiving. He'll pray only a prayer of supplication for himself or only a prayer of supplication for his family or only a prayer about others. He really breaks out, you know, all of these different, you know, different topics into their own prayers.

And I started doing that and that really, really made a difference for me. Allowed me to focus in that moment and not lose sight of, did I forget something? You know, I've been praying a long time and you start to wander. It really allowed me to stay focused in a little bit more. Now that may not work for everybody, but it is interesting that tip came from someone else and it was certainly really useful for me.

That's a good idea. One that was kind of in my mind as, as I was thinking about that question one thing that I have done more so the older I've gotten is if I am struggling to formulate my thoughts or to really voice what's in my heart,  I'll go to the Psalms, for instance. And I will read some that kind of speak into the emotions or the experiences that I'm going through in the moment and really just hit home with where I'm at.

And I will pray those Psalms and I'll read those as I'm praying to God. And I think there's, there's certainly. Maybe a little bit of a danger. You don't want that to become repetitious in any way or, or to do so vainly. But those words oftentimes resonate with us in a very deep, meaningful way that I think can help us at least begin to express some of the things within us that maybe we struggle to express.

And oftentimes what'll happen is if I'm reading one of the. Those, it will then lead into prayer beyond that Psalm, because now my, my mind is more focused, my vocabulary is opened, and I'm really able to express what I want to say to God more clearly than I would have been previously. And so that's something that I've begun doing more so and not, not all the time, but at moments where I just feel a little lost as to what to say or how to begin or, or where do I go with these feelings that, that I have.

And the Psalms also kind of opened my eyes to the reality that all of the emotions and the feelings that we have, those are God made. He gave those to us and he wants us to express those things to him. And so our prayers should be emotive and really should express what we're feeling inside. And the psalm is Give us such a wonderful example of how to do that.

And so they can open our minds to maybe broaden the, the vocabulary we use and the expressions that we use when talking to God. And so if that's something that maybe resonates with anybody that's listening who maybe is struggling to, Express to God what's in their hearts. Maybe turn to some of the Psalms and read some of them that tend to resonate with you and begin there and see if that doesn't maybe expand your, your prayer life with God, Joshua, about you.

Yeah. So listening to you guys, first of all, it's just like. I think Jeremy even referenced this. It's God is so big and his truth is so encompassing that we all can have our own versions of expression in relationship with him and it be suitable and helpful, right? And so again, I guess maybe not all this stuff's useful for everybody, but it's encouraging to me to hear how you guys have kind of carved your way into this.

Life of prayer with him, one thing that I'm, that has been directly useful to me in a very practical way is I'm a guy of reminders, like  my life is on the reminders app and the calendars app. I like, if you tell me something and I, I'm expected to retain it in my head, it's gone, I'm offloading it to some app to remind me to do it.

And so with that has come literal, like reminders in my phone, like pray. And I said a couple of times in the day, or I set. You know, a particular day with, you know, a reminder because of an event or something that I'm trying to remember to do, just like I would say, call mom. Otherwise I forget to call my mom.

Right. Hey, like pray at 10 AM or, you know, 10 PM or whatever. And previous to smartphone times, because I apparently am that old,  you know, and I still do this occasionally. It'll be like a dry erase marker on the mirror in the bathroom.  Get up, go to the bathroom. You see prey.  So that, that kind of thing has been a very practical, very basic prompt for me to just even get it in my head.

Because sometimes the challenge for me is I can't even get the words. If I don't even remember that it's a thing I should be paying attention to. And so that that's been really helpful for me. Another one is that I've found helpful for people that I'm around. And I've, I've dabbled in this a little bit as a journaling is really kind of popular right now.

And journaling is a very natural segue to prayer. And And so I tell people like, Hey, when you journal.  Like just take a moment in your journaling to like give a part of that directly to God and make that just sort of a written prayer for you. And then worst case scenario, you never revisit it. Best case scenario, maybe next time you can turn back to that page and just read it again.

Yeah. And you have in your own words what you were feeling and the next time you feel like that you've got it something written down that you've said. And so those are two things that I found really practical for my prayer life. Yeah, well, I'll kind of close with this thought, and we've mentioned it already a couple of times.

I've really enjoyed, you know, this conversation. And maybe the final tip is, you know, for everybody to be open to other conversations like this. Be open to, you know, talking to other folks about, you know, their prayers and helping each other to grow and to cultivate this growth when it comes to our prayer.

So let's close, as we do, with a passage, and we'll use Flipping Shepherd 4, verses 6 and 7. That really points to what prayer is all about, and certainly What a prayer can provide. And so in Philippians chapter four, beginning of verse six, it says, be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding.

We'll guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.  Thank you for listening this week. If you haven't already done so, we'd appreciate it if you would take just a second to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're listening and rate and review the show so we can continue to spread the good news of Jesus as widely and effectively as possible.

Thanks again for joining us this week and we'll talk to you again next week.