Thank you for listening to the Cultivating Growth Podcast. Uh, we're excited about, uh, this episode. We've got a guest with us, Curtis Cooper from up in the Noblesville area, and we are going to kind of close out our discussion this month around the life of David. And so I'm looking forward to this conversation, so let's get to it.

Jeremy, you mentioned that we've got a special guest with us today, Curtis. Has joined us. He preaches for the congregation at Stony Creek in Noblesville. And, uh, we're excited to have him and we're excited to get some thoughts on, uh, David, that you wanna bring to the table today. We've been talking over the past several weeks about the story, particularly around David and Goliath, and then David and Bathsheba and Uriah.

And then last week we talked about David being a man after God's own heart, but. Curtis, let's maybe start in the story with David and Goliath, and we talked about the great faith that David shows there, his courage, that he shows his reliance upon God and that interaction that he has with Goliath. But I'm just curious as you've read that story, no doubt many times over your life.

It's a story that even the youngest of children know and can usually tell us all about, but there's so much depth to that story. And so I'm curious, just maybe as a place to start, as you read through the story of David and Goliath, what are some of the things that come to light for you that you feel are particularly impactful from that part of David's life?

Yeah, I think what David is, his perspective of what's going on, understanding that what Goliath is really doing is mocking God and his people. His army is pretty impressive for a young man in, in his perspective of it. Yeah, I think I perspective is a big key for me too. We've talked a little bit about this.

I think it's interesting in kind of a three chapter kind of range from first name of 15 to 16 to 17, is you really get a great contrast in perspective of the way SA operates. Mm-hmm. Specifically in chapter 15. Yeah. To the way David operates in chapter 17. And you get the kind of the reason why, you know, in the middle, I mean, you, you.

The story in one Samuel 15 was Saul in the Amalekites. I mean, he's operating based upon himself. It's all about what he wants to do and the way that he wants to do it, and God rejects him because ultimately Saul has rejected God. And then yet you come to one Samuel chapter 17 with David and Goliath, and you know, he's standing up against Goliath and he is able to do so because his perspective.

I mean, you're right on the money is he's thinking not of himself. Mm-hmm. He's not gonna be able to do it if that's what he's thinking, you know, he's thinking of God and then you kind of get in between there. We're kind of, when we're introduced to David in chapter 16, when he's chosen by Samuel and anointed to be king, you know, we're reminded there that God, the way he operates, he is not looking at.

Outward appearance that would tend to lean towards Saul, but he's looking at the heart. Mm-hmm. And so you really take a look at those three chapters together. And again, the heart, we talked a lot about that last week, you know, kind of goes to the forefront and I think you're right on the money. Yeah. It, it is his perspective, uh, of God, less of self.

That is really in contrast to solve from just a couple of chapters before. And man, I think about just the application that needs to be made from that. There, there's so much to be said for our perspective today, especially as children of Gods. He has empowered us in this world and, and we live in his grace and in his power and in his mercy and in his salvation.

And, and it should give us so much boldness in this world. And we see David living that in this story about he and Goliath meeting on the battlefield. David is coming in as a young man. He's not an impressive warrior at this point in time, but his boldness isn't in his physical attributes. It's in God's grace and his mercy and his strength that he is showing to David.

We see that in chapter 16 as we're told that the spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward, and you see David living into that reality. That God is constantly with him and it emboldens him to do things in the world that otherwise he would've been incapable of doing. And I think the same could be said for us, that's the life that we need to be living.

One of boldness and courage. Not because of our own skillsets, but because we are living a life connected to God. And we have that perspective that David shows here. Yeah. Just real quick on that. I mean, you, you take a look at one Samuel chapter 17, and you have a passage like in verse 33, when David has already let Saul know, listen, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go up against, you know, this giant, and he says, Saul to David in verse 33.

You're, you're not able to do it. Right. You're not able to go. And he's not wrong about that. Right. Right. Like he, he is right. About that. And so then when you have what David says in verse 37, what he reiterates to Goliath himself in verse 46 and verse 47 is exactly what we're talking about here. Yeah.

Yeah. Saul's right when he says, you're not able to do this, and Saul's like, I, I don't, I don't dis, I don't not disagreeing with that. I'm not able to do it, but yet when I go up against this Philistine, it's not me. It is God and his perspective. Was right on the money with that Saul's perspective is simply on the outwardness of this young guy.

And he is like, oh, you are in deep trouble. And David's like, yeah, if it's just me, but it isn't. And so now everything about that situation changes. You've got this whole army that is cowardly, you know, afraid of this giant, but David's perspective is what, what? Tell says, Hey, I'm gonna go do this. And I, and God is gonna be the one who delivers me from this giant, uh, I just, I love his faith.

I love his perspective. Um, and that's a real challenging thing for me in thinking about there, there may be some things where I think, well, I don't think I'd be very good at that. Um, and certainly in my life that that's happened before, but to think, okay, well if, if I'm going out there and I'm doing what God's asked me to do, mm-hmm.

I can rely upon him, uh, to gimme the strength to, to be able to accomplish great things like David. And we see that, I mean, throughout David's life, with some exceptions, and we've talked about some of those previously and we'll probably talk about them some more today. But, you know, in general, you, you see David living a life.

Lived on faith. Mm-hmm. I mean, he, he is constantly, uh, connected with God in a meaningful way, and we see that expressed through the Psalms a as he relates his emotions to God in a very raw and real way. Frequently, uh, we see through the decisions that he makes, his, his connectedness to God is something that it really defines him in a lot of ways.

And, and we talked about that being one of the reasons that David is described as a man after God's own heart because yes, he, he sinned and he was a flawed man, but, but he never abandoned God. He, he never turned from God. He constantly turned back to God when he was guilty of sin, and he tried to live a life on faith.

And I think we see that in these types of stories, even from the youth that he was in. First Samuel chapter 17. We see him living a life on faith and when we live lives with that type of perspective that that I'm living my life, I. Determined by and led by my faith man, that changes the way we think about challenges that we face.

It changes the way that we view hardships in this life. So I think from that perspective, David is such a good example for us as to how we need to approach some of the challenging aspects of this life. It's also how it is, it comes to the forefront when the, in the way that we react. To sin, certainly in the, in our own lives.

I mean, a again, not to just, you kind of harp on this contrast, but you, you have in one Samuel chapter 15 with Saul, when you know Samuel comes to him and is like, listen, you've disobeyed God. And Saul's like, no. What? No, I haven't. Yeah, you did. No, I haven't. Yeah. And he, he's justified. Justified. Point the finger.

Point the finger. Point the finger. And then when David's sins, listen, it was egregious in second Samuel 11, we talked about it a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. And, and he was compounding sin, right? I mean, he had. Tons of opportunities that was in front of him to, to do the right thing and he didn't. Right. He had, he had lots of times where he could have got off that sin road and gone a different way, but he didn't.

I mean, it is a terrible and just ugly chapter to read, but yet when you get to chapter 12 and he is confronted and, and he reacts now to, to his sin, you, you see that relationship with God. And, and we see how he reacts in chapter 12 of, of Second Samuel. We, we see. What his mindset is as he writes specific Psalms about that moment, like Psalm 51 and, and so you're able to see that even in sin, it's not that he was a perfect person, but yet now because of his relationship with God and that heart.

The way he reacts to sin is going to be ultimately in the right way. Oh, I was just gonna say I love the Psalms 'cause it does give you insight into David's heart. Mm-hmm. Uh, I was studying one the other day and I can't remember which one it was, but there was a psalm where like at the beginning of the psalm, he is pleading to God.

You know, begging him, his enemies are after him, and by the time he gets to the end of the psalm, he's like, I put my faith and my trust in you. Oh Lord, like it. He, he almost had to work through it. And as he's praying to God, he gets to the point where he realizes, I've always been able to trust you, Lord, since I was, since I was young.

I was able to trust you. It. It really gives you an insight into how much of a heart for God. He really, really does have. I thought the words, the phrase you used there, David, working through it. I think that's really a good way of describing some of the Psalms that David writes. Mm-hmm. And honestly, it should be more of the way that we pray sometimes if I'm struggling with temptation or I'm struggling with sin, or I'm struggling with a relationship who el, who better to work through it with than God.

That's what he wants from us. He, he's there. For us in that way. I need to have more faith and more confidence to work through those things with God. Far too often I'm trying to work through all of those things internally, or maybe I'm trying to work through them with other people, which can be healthy and needed in the appropriate context, but let's never replace.

The opportunity to work through those things with God by trying to work through them with others or just internally. Yeah, and I think you're right. We see David doing that. Psalm 51 specifically connected to the Sin with Bathsheba is a place where, where he's doing that, he's pleading for God to cleanse him and he's pleading for God to show his mercy to him.

I mean, he is. He is trying to emotionally work through this part of his life and the sin that he committed, and he does so with God and that that is such an important thing for us to do as well. Let's work through the challenges of this life with God. He's, he's there for us. He's our father. He wants to have that type of a relationship for us.

But we need to take the step that we see David doing so often and have those conversations with him. I think the temptation a lot of times is, is for us to say, listen, he, I, I've got this. Whatever issue, whatever problem, even if it's sin, I'm gonna work through that and I'll get back to God. Yeah, right.

Like, this is something I'm gonna work through in, in whatever way that I'm gonna try to work through it, and then I'll get back when I've worked through whatever this issue is. Then, you know, then I'm gonna be ready to get back to God. And I mean, you guys make an incredible point that David didn't operate that way.

Yeah. He, he operated in the way I, I need God to work through, you know, this situation. I mean, not just the sin, but I mean that's, that's how he. Stood up against Goliath. I mean, he's, I'm gonna work through this. I need God right there. And I think for us, a lot of times we're like, listen, I'm gonna really, I'm gonna work through this.

I'm gonna try to, to straighten this thing out. I. So when I get all straightened out, then now I'm ready to kind of go to God. I'm ready to get back to, you know, being God instead of, Hey, God is really good at straightening out. Like he's very, very good at that. So let's, let's let his hands on the working through kind of side of things instead of mentally saying, well, let me work through this and I'll get back to God later.

Psalm 1 39 is one of my favorite Psalms where he just says, God knows me inside and out. He knows before I speak my intentions, and he knows the words before they leave my tongue. And he knew me, you know, when I was in the womb. And at the end he says, you know. He invites God in. He says, come search me. Try me, see if there's any wicked grievous way inside in, in me, uh, and help me walk in the way of righteousness.

And so, you know, David's not saying I'll prove it to you, God, God, he's saying, come in and help me clean house Lord. Mm-hmm. You know, I need your help to see what is wicked inside of me. And so he is, like you said, he is working through with. With God. Um, 'cause he knows that God is the most qualified person to cleanse his inside his heart.

Um, and so he, he really depends upon him. And if he reads Psalm 51, I mean creating me a clean heart of God, he knows the importance of what's inside of him. Mm-hmm. And so he is asking God to be the one who comes in and helps him, uh, be the man that he needs to be. And one of the things I've. Always appreciated about this story of David and his interaction with Nathan is what takes place after that as the child that was conceived, is born and then ultimately dies.

You see David really struggling during that time period where that. Child has been born, but David knows ultimately what the consequences are going to be because of his sin. And we see David just complete grief. He's fasting, he's just laying on the ground. He's inconsolable. But as soon as he hears that the child is dead, David understands that there is now a a time that he needs to hit the reset button, and he gets up immediately.

We're told in in verse number 20, he washes himself, he anoints himself. And he goes into the house of the Lord to worship. Yeah. And, and there are so many times in life where, listen, when you're going through a hard time, the words of Psalm 51 may be all you can muster. God, just, I, I need your mercy. I need you to cleanse me.

I need your help. I'm pleading for your mercy. I'm at a low point in my life. And there comes a moment in time though, where we need to be able to hit that reset button and say, I need to put this behind me and I need to be able to move forward in faith with God. And that's what we see David doing here.

Thi this time in his life kind of has come to an end with the death of this child. Mm-hmm. He has taken full responsibility for his sin. He has asked God for forgiveness. He has asked God to cleanse him. He is worshiping God and he now needs to move forward and, and that is sometimes really hard to do for us.

Sometimes we get caught in the Psalm 51 world and we can't move forward anymore. Yeah. David gives us an example of how. We need to have confidence in God's forgiveness and in his mercy, and we need to be able to move on from that point in time. And that's why I've always appreciated that aspect of this story as David sets a really good example for us of how we need to be able to move forward in faith after we have been involved in sin like he was.

You know, you think about guilt and shame and that's no question what David was feeling. Uh, when he's confronted with this sin. Listen, guilt and shame is a tool that both God and Satan use. Yeah. But only one of them use it productively and rightly. You know, it's used, you know, on the good side, like we see from David who.

Because of his guilt, because of his shame is broken and rightly so, but that brings him to God. And then once he gives that to God and he is forgiven and he understands what that is, he's letting that guilt and shame go, and now he's ready to move forward. Well, what Satan oftentimes will do is even at the moment of forgiveness.

Satan's gonna try to use mm-hmm. Now that guilt and shame and, and it becomes a tool in his tool belt that now after, you know, the forgiveness has occurred, he, he's gonna be whispering in your ear and now something that should be, have, should have been put away. Now it's not a productive thing anymore.

Yeah. He's using us to pull us further and further away, but yet we see a great use of it, you know, certainly with David there in second Samuel. David says some amazing things in two Samuel 22. Uh, after all of this takes place, uh, in verse 21, he says, the Lord's rewarded me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands.

He has recompensed me for I have kept the ways of the Lord and have not wickedly departed from my God. And I just wanna say, David, don't you know what you did back there? Like you did you, did you even read chapter 11? Like you gotta know, but. David has just such faith and confidence. Mm-hmm. And he knows something that we should know on this side of the cross.

Like he wrote in like Psalm one 30, uh, or 1 0 3, where he says, for as high as the heavens is from the earth, God has removed my sin as far as mm-hmm. East from the west. And I just, I, I think it's so helpful to see his confidence in God's forgiveness, his faith. And like you said, he's not letting that guilt and shame bog him down.

He's, he's moving forward. Yeah. That, that is such a great, great point. And the guilt and shame conversation is such an important one because you're right, Satan uses those tactics and, and the world. Has embraced it. You know, we see all the time people who have been involved in all sorts of sin, and that guilt and the shame that they carry just cripples them.

That's right. They can't get over it and they can't get past it. And at the end of the day, what that's doing is it's preventing them from experiencing the true freedom that's found in the forgiveness that Jesus offers us. And, and when that true experience of freedom and forgiveness is found, it's life altering for people.

David experienced that and we can see that so clearly. I mean, that was something that meant the world to him to have this opportunity to be cleansed. Of the sin that he has committed, even the egregious ness of his sin, he was able to be cleansed from that. And the freedom that he found on the other side of that is remarkable.

And to your point, Curtis, I mean we have, we have now the cross to look back to. Yeah. And we can see that far more clearly even today. And we should be. The kind of people who just absolutely embrace the forgiveness that Jesus's blood has has brought to me, and I can move past my sin because I know and I have the confidence that his blood has cleansed me of that.

That, that is one of the most powerful evangelistic tools I think we have in our tool belt, is to offer that to individuals who are struggling with that sin and the shame and the guilt that comes with it. Yeah. I mean, we could full circle ourselves back. I mean, you know, 20 minutes ago we were talking about perspective, and that's, that's what's pushing David through life.

Mm-hmm. I mean, he, listen, he made a, he made mistakes and it, it, listen, second Samuel Evans not the only mistake that David will ultimately make. Yeah. But man, his perspective is. Is always so, so good. You know, I'm even reminded of, you know, when he, he has the idea to, you know, to build the temple, to build a house for the Lord.

A great idea and his motivation for and reasoning behind that was right on the money and was good. And then, you know, kind of God drops a kind of a. A bomb on him. A little bit of, listen, that's a great idea, but it it's not gonna be you, you're not gonna be the one to do it. And, and we don't see him sulk or we don't see him kicking the dirt.

Mm-hmm. You know, we don't see, you know, any of that. We see him immediately saying, okay, listen, you still deserve this. I'm, I'm gonna do everything that I can still to make that happen. So you, you, and we see this, I mean, throughout, we've talked about Moses a little bit. You know, he is a, he is a similar, you know, an incredible leader of God's people.

Uh, we have a full picture of his life, kind of like we do, you know, with David. And, you know, he, you know, he sends there in the wilderness. Moses does, it takes glory from God and is is levy to heavy. Punishment because of that, but yet you don't see Moses sulking or, or, you know, kicking the dirt as we'd say.

We see him listen, pushing forward and preparing Joshua to take over. And, you know, the relationship that he has, you know, with God, literally at the very end is the closest, most intimate relationship that you could ever have with him. On the mountain with God dying there with God, God burying him personally and no one knowing where the, it was only him and God.

Yeah, and, and that is after. You know, a, a, a sin. It's after, you know, a heavy punishment, but yet he's able to push that guilt and shame away and he is able to press forward. And that's exactly what we see David do. Yeah, I think you know what you're talking about. There is another sign of David's faith in all of this, you know, for him to be able to take the No.

That he received from God about building the temple. And to be able to take that and then move forward with Thanksgiving and move forward with praise. 'cause that's exactly what his prayer essentially is after he receives that news. To be able to do that, you can only do that when you are living a life of faith.

Mm-hmm. And again, it goes back to what is said ultimately about David being a man after God's own heart. He knows that if the answer is no. From God, then that's what's best, right? And he moves forward and praise. And if the answer is yes, then he knows that's what's best. And he moved forward with Thanksgiving and praise.

He, his, his, his relationship with God isn't dependent upon the answer that he's going to receive. And that, that's, again, such a good example for us to follow today. Being children of Gods. Listen, we may think we know what's best for our lives. We may think. Think we know the direction that our lives should take.

God may have other plans. Can we accept that and move forward in faith? That's gonna be a challenge each of us have to face. But David sets a really good example for us of how to do that and how to remain confident in God's providence and God's plan for your life. And again, he, he's somebody that we look to as an example, for us to follow today.

Trusting the will of God in the end. Yeah. Amen. Yeah. Uh, let me throw one other thing in before we're done. Uh, in talking about David for this month, we've kind of alluded to it. You know, one kind of final thing for me that really stands out, especially when you get to David and the Psalms, there is a rawness to his honesty.

Um, with God as he's working through some things that I think really, really stick out and, you know, just kind of to make an application for me here at the very end, I is that in a lot of ways is what stands out, is that when I'm in it, when I'm in the middle of something, how raw am I with God? How honest am I with God?

And you take a look at the Psalms and you can almost, you know, thumb through and pick one. And there is a, I mean, a. Uh, and honesty that almost at times you feel like you're encroaching when you're reading it. You know, that level of rawness I is the kind of relationship that David had, uh, with God. And, and for him to then be referenced as a man after God's own heart, you start to see some, and that's what I want, right?

Yeah. That's what I want. Yeah. Yeah. And, and. You learned that ultimately from David, you know, through the study of the Psalms? Absolutely. We'll go ahead and put a bow on that and, uh, conclude our time this month on David, uh, Curtis, thanks for joining us today. I enjoyed this discussion and I appreciate the thoughts that you brought, uh, to the table this morning.

It was, it was really, really helpful and I enjoyed the conversation. Appreciate you having me on. Yeah, always. So let's, let's wrap things up in, uh, Psalm 51. We've, we've talked about this psalm a a handful of times over the course of this month. This Psalm directly connected to the time in David's life in which he is sinned against, uh, God with Bathsheba.

And we're told at the outset that the Psalm was written when Nathan, the prophet, came to David to confront him about that sin. I'm gonna read just the first two verses and we'll allow these to kinda be the last thoughts on this topic for the month. Have mercy upon me. Oh God. According to your loving kindness.

According to the multitude of your tender mercies, blot out my transgressions, wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

Thank you for listening this week. If you haven't already done so, we'd appreciate it. If you would take just a second to subscribe to the podcast, whatever platform you're listening. Rate and review the show so we can continue to spread the good news of Jesus widely and effectively as possible. Thanks again for joining us this week, and we'll talk again next week.