Hello and welcome back to Cultivating Growth. I wanna thank everyone for joining us this week. We are on the last week of our month long series on Abraham. We've had an episode talking about the promises that God made to Abraham, uh, an episode talking about the moments in Abraham's life where he struggled with his faith.

And then ultimately an episode talking about his great faith that was on display for much of his life. And today we're going to wrap this up with a conversation about Abraham's life, and we've got a special guest with us. Jeremy will introduce him in just a second. And so with that, let's get right to it.

We've made it to the very end of our discussion on Abraham as we have each and every month. This year. We brought in, in this last week a guest, and this week we have Gary Chumley with us, a member here at Traders Point, good friend of ours, and he has joined us for this final discussion on. Abraham, you had made mention that we kind of went in order with the promises and then we moved on to his lack of faith and then his great faith.

And I thought for our discussion, let's hold the promises to the end and kind of just start with, you know, the, the times in Abraham's life where he exhibited incredible faith, but yet there are times where he exhibited an incredible lack of faith as well. And so maybe just kind of throw it out in kind of a general way to the both of you guys, you know, what is it maybe that stands out?

On either side of those, whether the lack of faith side or the great faith side, kind of at the outset here. Maybe something kind of in a general way and then we can kind of move into the specifics that stands out to you guys when it comes to Abraham and his faith Strong or lack of. Well, Gary, you're the guest, so you go ahead.

Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. It's good to be here. Um, you know, I'm, I've always been, you know, as I've grown in my own faith and looking at these people that we read about and, um, that we think they're, he, these are heroes. Mm. Right? Mm-hmm. But then you, it doesn't take long to really start to realize. There was nothing superhuman about these people.

Mm-hmm. These were broken people. These were people that failed miserably at times. And I'm thinking, I, I can relate to this person, and yet. They're looked upon and told us about by the Holy Spirit, these are heroes of faith. These are the people, well, what, what, what made them be like that? And that's because in, in, in these times, like with the Abraham, you know, he, he was lying.

For, to, you know, to save his own skin. But I, I understand that fleshly part of him, because he was doubting God and, and I, I, I look at my own life at times and I'm like, you know what? I've done that. I didn't have the faith. Now I can turn that around and I can look and see what Abraham did do. And I'm like, I can do that.

I just have to put myself in a better position where I'm. I'm presented with a situation I need to remind myself and to prepare myself. Almost like I always like to use the word war gaming. I need to be war gaming in when Satan's going to hit me with something. Mm-hmm. I need to be ready. And that, especially in the good times, when things are good, things are calm, they're comfortable, they're coming.

Mm-hmm. And to know, you know what, when that happens, I need to be like Abraham in those better times. I need to look to God immediately and figure out what's going on and look to him. 'cause he's going to show me the way out. That's a great point. I, I think you used the word hero, and that's one of those words that when I think of, you know, superheroes for instance, there, I can't really relate to Superman.

Right. Whether you think he's a superhero or not, I can't really relate to Iron Man. Right. They're, they're, they're just. People, characters, et cetera, that I just don't have any connection to necessarily. But when I think about the quote unquote heroes of the Bible, Abraham being one of those man, I can relate to a lot of the things that he went through.

I can relate to the doubt that he felt. I can relate. To the uncertainty that he felt. I can relate to the lack of patience that he had, and I think that's one of the beau beautiful things about the way that God has given us the Bible and the way that he told us the stories of these individuals. He wants us to be able to relate to them.

He doesn't, he doesn't want these people that we hold up on pedestals as men and women of great faith, to be people that we can't relate to. Because if that's the case, then we're all in trouble. And so when we see someone like Abraham who in the New Testament especially, is singled out as a man who is to be admired and revered and respected for his great faith, we then go back and we read his story.

And I think, man, I can relate to a lot of the things that he went through and that gives me confidence that I then can have the same kind of faith that he did. And so it's an interesting way of thinking about heroes because in our culture we think of them as individuals. That are set apart, very different unrelatable, but the ones that we hold too deeply in the Bible are ones that are very much like you and I and face the same struggles that we do.

You know, one thing that kind of set on me, even when Gary was just talking, he kind of used the phrase about how we operate in even the moments of. Prosperity. Are we operating with faith or you know, a lack of faith? Sometimes we struggle the most in moments of prosperity and it's in the moments of poverty that we're leaning on God.

And you know, I was just thinking about that. You know, in Genesis chapter 12, in a lot of ways when we're re, we're introduced, even though his name is made mention of, but we are really introduced. To Abraham in Genesis chapter 12, and we are introduced to him at a time of incredible prosperity. At a time that he has everything going for him.

He has everything in front of him. He is incredibly wealthy, he is incredibly comfortable, he is at ease in every way is how we're introduced. And yet here at the very outset of us being introduced to him, God tells him, listen, pack it all up and head off into a a spot that you don't know where you're going.

And so here he is in this moment of prosperity. And how he engages in his relationship with God really sets the stage to his mindset going forward. Absolutely. I mean, he made mistakes and, and you know, even in the lies that he tells about Sarah, his wife, it, it is to protect himself. I mean, there's selfishness, you know, in the midst of it.

And certainly his impatience, uh, with God, uh, with the Ishmael and Hagar. But yet he, he still had that life of mm-hmm. You know, acknowledging God and trust in him. And you see that at the very outset, but it is at the outset, everything is going great for him. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But yet he still puts his complete trust and willing to give up whatever.

Ultimately, when you get into Genesis 22, willing to give up his own son even so, he, he, he's willing to sacrifice and to do with whatever God has asked of him. I think the sacrificial part of Abraham is something maybe we haven't talked about a whole lot. Mm-hmm. But it is, it is one that really stands out to me so much of what God called him to do, involved very personal sacrifice on his part, whether it was his homeland and all of the wealth that had been accumulated as a part of that, and the security that comes with having a land that's his own going.

Then somewhere that he's unsure of or certainly the, the call to sacrifice his son, Isaac. God asked this man of great faith to demonstrate that faith through sacrifice, and so we shouldn't be surprised then when we're called on to demonstrate our faith through sacrifice, and that's certainly gonna look different for every individual.

God's not calling on me to sacrifice one of my children. But he is calling on me to live a sacrificial life, and my willingness or unwillingness to do so is going to be determined by my level of faith. And I think that's one of the reasons that we see Abraham held up as this man of great faith is because he was willing, when called upon to sacrifice whatever God asked him to do, whether it was his homeland or his own child, if God said sacrifice that Abraham said.

Okay. And, and that's, that's a good lesson for us today to think about. What am I gonna be willing to sacrifice to demonstrate my faith to God when, when I'm called upon to do so? My time, my money, my resources, whatever it is, am I gonna be willing to sacrifice? And my answer to that question is going to determine whether or not I'm going to truly have faith in God the way that Abraham did.

Well, you know, we're called to that. Even by Christ. He says, take up your own cross and follow me. That's right. And then Luke talks about he uses, he adds the word daily. Mm-hmm. Every day. You need to be prepared to make a sacrifice. Now, last check, sacrifices I don't think are very pleasant or comfortable.

They're, they don't. They're not, they. Not, not usually not fun games. Um, thankfully, you know, God does give us at a lot of times a very comfortable life, you know, uh, other areas of the world than others. But, you know, here, you know, we are blessed, but still there are going to come times where he is going to call upon you to quote, unquote pick up your stuff and go to another country.

Mm-hmm. And you don't know what's going on. I do. So there, there's the rub. Do I trust God or not in this? Mm-hmm. I, I may even lose my life literally in this process. Do I trust him enough or am I going to let fear, which is what Satan's like, no, you do this, it's gonna come and you, it's gonna be bad. Like Abraham and these other heroes of faith that we read about in Hebrews 11, they go, Nope, I'm gonna have to set, set up, set fear aside, and I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna do this.

I trust God. I'm just gonna have to just trust him with whatever happens here. I mean, trust is the biggest word in the life of Abraham, certainly on this faith and lack of faith, you know, moments, I, I think in a big general sense, he trusted in God, there's no question about that. But in those moments of weakness, it, it is a lack of trust.

I mean, whether it, it was in his. You know, lying about the situation and the relationship with his wife, not trusting that God can take care of him in that moment or take care of his wife in that moment, or, you know, his lack of trust in God's timing of things with him having a son. Uh, I, I think early on he probably trusted in God when that.

Promise was made. And a little bit of time goes by and he is looking at his watch and he is thinking, oh, I don't know. I'm getting older. My wife is getting older. Let's kind of help God out a little bit. And so you have those, you know, kind of momentary lack of trust. But yet, what's really interesting with Abraham, and we saw this with David that we talked about a couple of months ago on this same podcast, it it is how they then responded in those moments, right?

You, you have this lack of trust and, and you have a weakness and, and you have a slip. And you sin. But because in general he's living a faithful life, that's what's propelling him forward. And now he's able to respond, you know, in the right way with all of these things. And I, and I think that ultimately is a big application for us in the moment, certainly of our missteps and our own sin, to be able to pick ourselves up and respond in the right way.

Yeah. Response is a, is a key word when it comes to our relationship with God, because you're right, we've all, we've all had moments where our faith is weak and we stumble. How are we gonna respond in those moments? And Abraham is a great example of how to do that in a positive way. You know, just if you look at just the timeline of his life, the times where he lied about Sarah.

The times where he, he struggled with his, uh, relationship with his wife and Hagar. Those things proceeded. Then the great faith that he demonstrated in Genesis chapter 22, when God called on him to sacrifice his son. It was almost as if God was giving Abraham a chance to respond to these times in your life.

What, what are you gonna do, Abraham? You gotta make a decision. You, you gotta decide what kind of person you're gonna be. You've shown great faith. You've shown weakness. You gotta make a decision. You, you gotta, you gotta decide. And, and in that moment where he was faced with arguably the biggest, most difficult decision of his life, there was no hesitation on his part.

And, and that's those, that those actions are recorded in the pages of Hebrews for a reason because God saw what Abraham did in that moment. And it is something to be held up and admired for all of time because he responded in a way that demonstrated his faith. And, and all of us are gonna be given that opportunity when we struggle as, okay, well now what?

You know what, what's, what's next for you? You gotta make a decision. You can either decide that you're going to continue in rebellion, you can decide that you're gonna continue in a lack of faith or. You can respond in a way where you're gonna make some changes and you're gonna turn back to God. And Abraham's a great character, great reminder that when we face those moments, we need to respond in faith.

And when we do and God is faithful and he is going to bring us back and show us the love that he's promised to us. You know what kind of going on top of that is. While we can relate to that. 'cause some people, you, you're talking to them and they're, maybe they're a new Christian and they're getting into it and things start, Hey Satan, as soon as you become a Christian, now you're a target.

Mm-hmm. And Satan's gonna come after you and it gets hard and, and, and, and then the doubt and stuff starts to creep in. What I love so much about these stories, like Abraham, David know it, you name it. When you start reading the story, they all doubted. Yeah. They all, God knows that's coming. He, he, he's not going to be surprised when you're like, okay, wait a minute.

I didn't know this was involved. He already understands that the, the, the key is like David. 'cause David asked my God, my God, why are you forsaken me? Uh, where are you at? Are you asleep? Uh, I'm on fire here. I need to be put out. Where are you? God understood it that the key was David went to God. Yep. To ask.

I need some. My, one of my most favorite stories is, uh, in Mark, uh, chapter nine, the man with the, um, ailing son, and he goes to Jesus. Will you help my son? He goes, well, do you believe, I do believe, help my unbelief. Mm-hmm. I love that so much. Mm-hmm. I have taken that with me. So for so many years I do believe, but there are times like, I really need some help here.

Yeah. But I need to go to God with that. Not to other entities. 'cause they're not, that's gonna get you into more trouble. Yeah. And your, your doubt will it, it will succeed and your faith will fail. That's a great point. Sorry, I'll real quick. You know, because when you said that, man, that just, that struck me really, really strongly.

There are gonna be times where we need help with that unbelief and, and God understands that, but he wants us to take that to him. And that's the key is don't, don't try to then, uh, try to fix that situation yourself. Or or rely on your own capabilities, take that to him. That's where the strength to overcome that unbelief comes from.

And I think you're right. There's so many examples in scripture where God shows us just that very thing. Hey, when you struggle, I'm here. I'm right here. Let's talk about it, let's work through it together. But you gotta, we gotta take it to him. And, and that requires faith and that requires trust to do that.

I mean, we've got, faith is something we can grow in. I mean, I don't think there's any question about that. And, and I mean, you bring up a good point and sometimes we miss the simplicity of. Just asking God to increase our faith. Right? Yeah. Just the simple prayer of increase our faith. Certainly the, the apostles did that to Jesus, I mean, specifically.

Yep. And, and sometimes we miss, we miss that. Well, that, that should be something I should just have, right? Mm-hmm. That should be something that should just be there. And it is something that should be there, but it also is something that you can grow in. I mean, when, when Abraham sets off to sacrifice this son, Genesis chapter 22, that's not the Genesis 12, the beginning of his story.

I mean, that's not the very outset, you know, of his story. Yeah. He, he has grown into this where he's able now to look back and he is able to analyze his relationship with God and now he is to the point that he trusts God. Even to do something that is seemingly impossible. I mean, that's, we talked about this last week.

I mean, that's what Hebrews 11, you know, helps us with this story on how is it that Abraham was, was able or willing to do something like this? Well, Hebrews 11 tells us his mindset was, if I kill my son, God's promises are so sure he's gonna raise 'em from the dead. Mm-hmm. And so his trust now is so high.

Yep. He is believing God. Will do the impossible and, and we can look at a story like that, maybe full circling back to even where we started. We can, we can look at a story like that and think, well, that's just Abraham. I mean, I would never be able to get, you know, to a position like that or that, you know, that's Peter, he walked on water.

I would never be able to, you know, to do something like that. No, Abraham is, is here so that we can look at him and be like this and have this level of faith. Yeah, you, I mean, I think if we had a chance to talk to Abraham today, it, you know, he, he would, he would tell us, listen, it's, it's all worth it. You know?

It's all worth it. I mean, have the confidence, have the faith, have the trust. You know, do what seems uncomfortable at the time. Make the sacrifice, it's all worth it. And that's what I mean. He speaks to us through scripture in that way. We need to learn from his example and see. And no matter what it may cost on our end, no matter how uncomfortable it might be, following God in faith is worth it.

And, and that should embolden us to do that and give us the courage we need to make those decisions in difficult times, he did it and he stands as an example to us today. Fight through the weakness. Take your unbelief to God, go through the struggle, but remain faithful to him and, and do what he's asked you to do.

And, and it is, it's a rewarding life. And it's a rewarding eternity, and it's one that makes it all worthwhile. And these, you know, Abraham and others, like you mentioned a minute ago, Gary, I mean, all of them speak that same truth to us still today. And that a life of faith, no matter what it may cost us, this side of eternity is always worth it.

And it is always valuable to us to pursue that. You know, uh, there, there's a section in First Peter chapter one where Peter is, you know, he's. Older in age. He, he, he's addressing, he's, you know, his children, all these younger Christians and he's, it's almost as he's looking out upon them, he's like, you people amaze me.

I walked with Jesus. Mm-hmm. I walked with him. You know the stories. Everybody knows the stories and here you, you've never seen him, you never talked to him, you never touched him. And you believe mm-hmm. I'm in awe of you. These people. It is something to that, that's where the whole sharing this faith comes in.

I am thankful that we, God has shared the faith that these people who we romanticize them. Mm-hmm. I guarantee if we talk to 'em, uh, no. I mean some of 'em were sa in half as you read about in Hebrews. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So they're like, no, but you know what, like you just said, it was worth it. And when I see you do the same thing.

It is worth it. Yeah. Yeah. It is worth it. That's the cloud of witnesses, right? That are kind of cheering us on in Hebrews chapter 12. Yeah, exactly. That's, let's close out last couple of minutes. Uh, I wanna go back and kind of talk about the promises that are made. We did that weeks ago. But we made mention that those three promises made to Abraham in Genesis chapter 12, in a lot of ways set up the remainder of scripture from that point forward.

And you know, these incredible promises are made to Abraham and you know, to a point he's able to see Isaac born, but. Not to the level of his descendants, you know, filling the face of the earth and, and certainly not, you know, the land that's given to those descendants. And ultimately, you know, you make your way all the way to Jesus.

You know, I, I was thinking about it. It, it, it really is everything from this point forward. Nearly every page. It is about Genesis chapter 12. I mean, whether it's, you know, the, the whole Jewish family, Abraham's family, the rest of the page of the Old Testament. I mean, the book of Joshua is all about, uh, God fulfills his promise.

God fulfills his promise. God fulfills his promise. Looking back to Genesis chapter 12, and of course you know the gospels we made mention in Matthew chapter one, the very first gospel at the very beginning. Sets up with this Jesus, the Son of Abraham. And, and so I, I just don't think it can be understated.

The importance to Genesis chapter 12 plays, uh, you know, in our Bibles and we, we made mention then, and I'll reiterate it, you know, whether you have these three verses just. Directly word for word memorized in your mind mm-hmm. Is one thing, but I, I think it's good for each and every one of us to understand that these promises are made and these promises are made in Genesis chapter 12, and you know where it is and you know how to get to it.

Yeah. Well, it's gonna be really difficult to understand all of the New Testament without, without it. And I think we, you know, we, we mentioned this when we did the, that episode, I think Abraham's name is mentioned over 70 times in the New Testament, that that should tell us that what happened in Genesis chapter 12.

And then, you know, God reiterated those promises to Abraham on a couple of different occasions. His story is a really important one. For the New Testament Christian to understand. I mean, that's the point that Paul's making in Galatians chapter three is he talks about, you know, being heirs and, and it, it, that, that relationship goes all the way back to the time of Abraham and, and certainly today it's no longer connected to the bloodline, but we now have, uh, that relationship with Jesus through Jesus' blood that we can be part of his family.

But it all goes back to these promises that God made to Abraham. And so you're right. I mean, you're probably not gonna wanna start studying the Bible with someone in Genesis chapter 12, but you probably need to get to it before too long because a lot of the New Testament kind of hinges upon these promises that God makes, and it really is a crucial part of understanding the flow of the Bible.

And certainly when you get to the New Testament, understanding all that is contained within that well, you know, and with these promises. It's this global, like I have this plan for everybody, but I could even peel that back and like when he made these promises, he was thinking about me. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He was thinking about you.

Yeah. Like personally thinking about Gary. Yeah. John, Jeremy. 'cause you go to end of Hebrews chapter 11, as there's multiple times where it kind of references the future, this future joy that they all looked toward. Mm-hmm. I mean, Moses looked toward the reproach of Christ. What, how did Moses know about Jesus?

Yeah. Yeah. But it because said at the very end there, because God had provided something better for us. That was why. So when you read about these promises and they're amazing stories, it leads you up to Jesus. You peel back a little bit more. Wow. He was thinking about me at that moment. Mm-hmm. That's amazing.

That's a promise. He's, he's promised me if I want it. And we're also then reminded that God keeps his promises and, and he is not beheld by time. Right. Right. I mean, we, you know, it is, everything is a time in our world, but God is not held by that. But yet because these promises are made and then referenced.

So many times throughout scripture, even into the page of the old, the New Testament, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years later, it, it is a reminder each and every time that God keeps his promises. Mm-hmm. And, and you can lean upon that. Certainly Abraham did in Genesis chapter 22, when he takes Isaac, you know, up on the mountain, he's leaning on the promise that God.

Had made to him. And, and that's where we are. I mean, God has made promises to us like he made promises to Abraham, and those promises can be so sure that we can lean completely on those mm-hmm. In every way, just like Abraham did. And that, you know, that that requires that level of faith we've been talking about today because.

Like we saw with Abraham, you know, some years started to go by and this son of Promise still hadn't come and you know, it's one thing to have to wait a a couple of days and a week. Yeah. You know, we start to get impatient really quickly. You know, we don't like to wait on anything today. And God asked Abraham to wait for years.

And years. And years. And Abraham grew impatient. Mm-hmm. And that's when he sinned. And it's a reminder to us that, listen, the promises that God made to us, they are, as you said they are. Sure. We don't have any doubt about that, but the timing of that, that lies in God's hands. Mm-hmm. And I need to be okay with that.

And man, that's easy to say. It's hard to do sometimes. Mm-hmm. A as we get impatient and we struggle with that. But Abraham's a great reminder. God operates in his time and I need to be okay with that. Well, let's go ahead and put a bow on that. I certainly appreciate the good conversation. Appreciate Gary for being with us as we conclude our kind of discussion points around Abraham.

We've made mention to Hebrews chapter 11 multiple times and we're gonna close with that passage and talking about Abraham and Hebrews chapter 11 verses eight through 10. The text says this, by Faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place, which he would not re, which he would receive as an inheritance, and he went out.

Not knowing where he was going. By faith, he dwelled in the land of promise, as in a foreign country dwelling tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him at the same promise for he waited for the city, which has foundations whose builder and maker is God.

Thank you for listening this week. If you haven't already done so, we'd appreciate it if you would take just a second to subscribe to the podcast on whatever platform you're listening. And rate and review the show so we can continue to spread the good news of Jesus as widely and effectively as possible.

Thanks again for joining us this week, and we'll talk to you again next week.