The Value of Intention in Portrait with Janice Smith

Janice shares her journey into the world of portrait photography, starting her business after turning 60, emphasizing the importance of printed art over digital images, and the importance of intention in our work. 

She discusses the challenges and decisions involved in establishing her photography business, including the necessity of having a dedicated studio space. Janice also highlights the impact of community and systems in her work, leading to her current project focused on tattoo portraits, which aims to celebrate self-esteem and personal stories through photography. In this engaging conversation, Janice Smith and Cat Ford-Coates explore the profound impact of photography on personal growth, community connection, and the importance of intentionality in business. They discuss the significance of celebrating resilience and strength through visual storytelling, the value of printed memories, and the challenges of navigating a photography business with care and purpose. As they look ahead to 2025, they share insights on embracing growth, the power of connection, and the excitement of upcoming projects.

Find Janice here:

• Website: https://janicesmithphotography.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/janice_smithphotography

Transcript

Cat Ford-Coates (00:01.25)
Hello and welcome to the Studio Takeover Podcast. I'm your host, Kat Ford Coats. Today, I am joined by none other than Janice Smith. Janice is in Canada, in British Columbia, near Vancouver, and I've been watching her closely for the last year. And really, you know, we met last year in Vegas and it was kind of this, really want to make this work and...

Now you're running campaigns and projects and really like building that momentum. So Janice, could you tell us a little bit about, you know, why you've gone down the portrait rabbit hole and who you serve and why you love what you do?

Janice Smith (00:44.623)
Yeah, so when I made the decision, I had turned 60 and I decided I had 20 good years left to really make an impact. And I had what I consider a true side hustle when it comes to photography. And I decided to do it full time. And to do it full time meant quitting my job, which I'd had for 14 years.

and really dive in deep. So I immersed myself in anything to do with Sue Bryce's program. So the portrait system, which led me to the portrait masters, which was actually the last one that was done in 2023 in Scottsdale, which is actually where I met you for the first time, because I took one of your classes.

and I took one from Sarai and I was just blown away. I stood in that room and went, these are my people. This is what I've been looking for. So I thought it would be a lot easier than it was, but I jumped in and went to Vegas to WPPI last year. And again, just like, met some of my idols, got to talk with Sue.

Cat Ford-Coates (01:51.37)
Yeah

Janice Smith (02:09.871)
personally, which was really fun, made some really great connections. And then we met again and I had been thinking, oh, I'll wait a year. I'll have a year under my belt and then 2025 I'll do the studio takeover. And when we met and we talked, I was like, I just can't wait. Like if I need to get it started and I want it to be successful and I want to do

Cat Ford-Coates (02:14.529)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (02:40.117)
all the things now so I can be very busy later. I took the leap of faith and as my husband always says, take the jump and the net will appear.

Cat Ford-Coates (02:55.374)
Bit of a maverick that one, isn't he?

Janice Smith (02:57.951)
Yeah, so I did do it and I was scared to death and was overwhelmed for probably four months. And then things started to shift and it was because I got really clear on what I wanted to do. And so I focused completely on fine art portraits, things that are printed. So I don't sell

Digitals separately. I do print everything and my studio is full of large printed artwork and one of the reasons that I Really wanted to focus on that is Because everyone captures everything on their phone But when you're gone, nobody looks at the 2,000 pictures on your phone I mean they might for a second, but usually they're in some cloud storage that they don't have the

Cat Ford-Coates (03:32.59)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (03:57.59)
I don't have access to.

Janice Smith (03:57.849)
They don't have the password and you know, and everyone's like, my goodness. And it really hit home for me because when my mom passed, we had known it was coming because she had end stage Alzheimer's. And we gave my daughter the option to go to the hospital and say goodbye or not. And she decided to stay home and she pulled out all of our photo albums and she went through her childhood.

and how she connected with her grandmother through those pictures. Instead, her last memories of my mom are very different than mine. And what we realized through that process was that I was actually non-existent in images for the last 25 years since probably one of her last family photo shoots we did when she was about four.

Cat Ford-Coates (04:31.566)
Ugh.

Janice Smith (04:56.207)
And I was like, as a photographer, that's wrong. And so then I started kind of really looking at why that is. And I think, you know, it's it's the typical thing. You're a mom, you're a wife, you're an employee and everything is on the back burner. And so I wanted to try and shed the light on being present now, right now, and be an existing in this time. And so.

that is the biggest catalyst I have for being seen in portraits. So almost harkening back, as my daughter says, in the 1900s, when they used to put things on the wall. Ye old times, the 1900s. So yeah, so that was how it all kind of started. And it really...

Cat Ford-Coates (05:40.639)
Ye old times. Yes

Janice Smith (05:50.901)
has been fulfilling for sure and talking to people about the just the work that I do and showing them the work that I do. It is kind of back to a little bit like what Richard Wood does, like those painterly kind of styles on some of the work that I do is very much that style. But I encourage people to print large. Like I just did a 30 by 30 inch canvas and it's breathtaking. It's

breathtaking because it's so large and to be proud of something so large is crazy.

Cat Ford-Coates (06:27.086)
and to be on something so large and see it and then when you put it on the wall realize how large 30 inches is not.

Janice Smith (06:29.923)
Yeah.

Janice Smith (06:35.215)
I know, I know. It's really amazing. And one of the things that I've always put family pictures up on the wall. And so when my daughter's friends would come over, they're like, here's the only house where there's like family pictures up on the wall. And I was like, wow. And they go like, we really like coming to your house because we get to see your family all the time. And so that has always been sort of the journey that I've been on. And it isn't until I actually decided to.

do photography full time and promote that, did it really start to blossom?

Cat Ford-Coates (07:10.072)
Well, decision is a lot, right? because, you know, being decisive, just from a business standpoint, like even taking the artistry off the table for a moment, being a CEO requires that you are decisive and...

when there's risk involved, right? And this could be for anything, right? We have to measure the risk and know where we're gonna make a commitment immediately. And when you're starting, starting and in that place of like, this is really valuable to me, I want to have an impact like you said. And we'll get into that in a second.

Cat Ford-Coates (07:54.218)
what does that decision and commitment actually look like? Because, you know, photography, relatively speaking, is a low-barriered entry, right? I need a camera and a way to take payment. And, okay, that's true. It's not a legislated space, right? You don't have to have specific certifications, so you want to be able to present yourself. Your portfolio is your certification.

Janice Smith (08:12.781)
Yeah.

Janice Smith (08:21.719)
Yeah, exactly.

Cat Ford-Coates (08:22.004)
I can produce this level and quality of work in a consistent style in a consistent way, la la la la la. But then you look at all of the opportunity that's available to you, right? Like this is what it means to me and what I want it to mean for my clients. That could be my impact. But then it's time to have the business and the business is no longer only about your heart connection.

Now your sales will reflect your heart connection and what you struggle with and what you're avoiding and all of the things, but your business is a separate entity from you. So committing to that kind of a partnership with a vehicle of business, it's not like buying a car for, you know, a used car, maybe eight, $10,000. This is something that you are going to continue to invest in. So people invest in you so that you can facilitate that impact.

for them. So what is that impact you want them to experience?

Janice Smith (09:26.905)
So the first big decision I made was actually to get a studio space because much like beginner photographers in a business is they think that they will go on location and then they forget about the little things like how much effort it takes to move good equipment around and set it up in an unknown space and how tired you are by the time you get it all set up. And so the first

Cat Ford-Coates (09:39.395)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (09:55.523)
big thing that I did was I rented a studio space in a co-working space because I have a separate office for it, but there's a receptionist, everything is included. So it became an easier decision to make. And that allowed me to arrive and be calm and to have everything kind of set up the way that I wanted to. And I had a lot more control.

Cat Ford-Coates (10:00.878)
Okay.

Janice Smith (10:24.195)
So that made a really big difference in the way that I interacted with clients because they also knew that I was relaxed and that whole process really calmed down. And the images that came out of that really improved because of that.

Cat Ford-Coates (10:39.97)
Well, that control is important, right? And not just the control of the light in the room and the space and the weather, right? But also the actual weather. When you're shooting on location, well, even before shooting on location, if you think about the sales cycle, the life cycle of a client, once you're on location, like I remember we did this destination gig in Manhattan for a client and she got blown away confused because I made her pick a backup date.

Janice Smith (10:42.382)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (11:10.082)
for my entire team and she's of course responsible for travel and accommodations, not just for me, but for a producer and a second shooter and an assistant and a digitech and blah, blah. And it wasn't like it was like three months out, it was no, I need the primary day and then also this other day because if it's pouring, like you're gonna look at me and be like, whoops, sorry. And we can't.

plan on that for the next day because you don't necessarily know that that storm is going to pass in 24 hours. And the same thing is true in a community, right? If like we shot one day and typically my rule is like if it's more than 40 % chance of rain, you know, three hours prior to the session, then we'll reschedule. But you now all of sudden we're extending that life cycle.

well, it's raining. can't shoot today. So what else do you have? And next thing you know, nobody can get onto a calendar for three more weeks. And now the life cycle you've been taking, the revenue that you were going to earn that day disappears. And now you have to take up another day to hopefully generate revenue. And it just, when you control the space, when you control the weather, you're in a much better position to control the sales in your business.

And so I'm sure that contributed a lot to your just capacity to breathe let alone pack a car and then shoot and then unpack a car

Janice Smith (12:39.073)
Well, and even at the in the early stages, I was renting a studio from like Peer Space or one of those online portals you can go into. so you were a slave to their schedule as well as your own. So. And then you have your hair and makeup people and all the rest of it. There was just too many balls to fall. So when you talk about logistics and how how long that.

Cat Ford-Coates (12:44.802)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (13:07.247)
period of time is from the intake call to the end where you're delivering any way you can kind of shorten that scale up, the better it is. Because once people see the images, they want them, which I want them to have them too, but it still takes time for them to be printed, to be delivered, and the rest of it. So yeah, so the studio was a huge big step.

Now it was also a huge big weight because that meant I had to pay rent every month, which was nerve wracking. So yes, I still struggle.

Cat Ford-Coates (13:38.655)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (13:43.512)
How did that shift, how did that requirement you put on yourself shift how you showed up in your business? Or did it?

Janice Smith (13:55.627)
It didn't at first. It didn't at first. It probably didn't really shift until September of last year. And that's when I consciously made the decision that the business was going to pay for everything. And I wasn't going to fund it unless absolutely necessary. And I think there always comes a time when you have to

Cat Ford-Coates (14:13.55)
you

Janice Smith (14:25.185)
Really you have to separate yourself from your name. I mean your name is on the door but That business has to live and breathe on its own and it has to be responsible to that and the only way that I became responsible for it was by making that line in the sand

Cat Ford-Coates (14:43.224)
Well, you I mean, you hear me say it a lot, right? But your business is a separate entity from who you are. And when we're playing at business, and I'm not saying that you were playing, like, or pretending to be in business, but it is a mindset shift from, well, I'm in business and I can take money for it, but I can also fund it if I have to, to going to, no, this.

Business is going to be responsible for the investments required for me to produce the work at the level in which I do.

Janice Smith (15:13.049)
Yeah. Well, I think too, when you, when you look at that statement, you also realize that if you want people to take it seriously and not treat it like a side hustle, then you have to treat it that way with respect. And I think the biggest shift that it made is I was able to justify saying my packages started $2,000.

most people are in the $5,000 range because that's where they see the most value. And I know I have yet to do a shoot where out of the 250 pictures that we look at it first that they're able to get it down past 70. It's just like, I don't want to be the one to cut them down. That's your job. I told you we are going to have a lot of fun and we did. And so I think that

You know, once people realize that it's not so scary behind the camera and they see the images and they see themselves and they see the difference between what is happening. So what I see versus what the camera sees, because I had tether and I shoot into a computer mostly because my eyesight is crappy. And so I can see focus a lot easier on the computer screen. But it it lets them just kind of. Go like.

That's what lighting does. That's what a camera does. That's what good posing direction does. Yeah, as it's like, my goodness. Yep.

Cat Ford-Coates (16:41.87)
That's why my phone doesn't do that.

Cat Ford-Coates (16:50.072)
Well, and you know, like the way that I teach y'all how to sell, you know, I want the blinks and the out of focus, right? I'm a human, I make mistakes right next to something that is beautifully posed and lit intentionally because that helps to instill value. So many photographers wanna take away all of the mistakes because they're supposed to be perfect and da-da-da-da-da. And it's like, nae-nae, fluffy, like, you're human too, it's art, like.

Janice Smith (17:17.039)
You

Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (17:20.096)
It just makes that image so much more valuable because of those skill sets behind it. Now, does that mean that you may not look at it for two months and come back to it and realize, this would have been so cool in this crop? You certainly can. But it just gives you an opportunity to reconnect with that customer and show them an image that they purchased in a completely new way.

And that always makes people feel good when they're not just transactional, that you stay connected to them because you actually appreciate what it is that you're doing together as almost a collaboration.

Janice Smith (18:00.195)
Yeah, I think the other thing too is that they always pick the things that you would never pick every single time. I even, so I was doing my cousins, because I like to play with them a lot. And so they're graduating. And so we were playing around with some kind of very dramatic poses. And she kind of just laid back in the chair and like.

flipped her hair back and then she had this humongous dress on and it was a typical teenager. the shot actually was a misfire on the lights, but you could see that there was something there and actually entered it in the Icon Awards and it did really well. She hated that picture. She's like, I don't like that. I don't look like that.

Cat Ford-Coates (18:48.131)
Janice Smith (18:52.911)
And this is like, so I would, was talking to her mom, she's like, yeah, yeah, I can totally see that she would never, she doesn't see herself that way. So it was interesting because I was just like, that's cool. So that was very fun. But the other thing that I, yeah, the other thing I've realized is that with some people, they're always like, no, you just do your thing. I like what you do. I want you to do your thing. And I'm like,

Cat Ford-Coates (19:11.605)
It's super fun.

Janice Smith (19:23.213)
Well, what is that? So there's a lot of pressure when they say that because you're kind of like, well, OK.

Cat Ford-Coates (19:33.399)
Part of my thing requires communication.

Janice Smith (19:36.033)
we have to do this together. But yeah, it's been very interesting kind of watching people pick their images and being able to see them right away and to really go that distance with them. But I think the other big part about getting involved in the community when I did was it allowed all of my systems to be in place right from the beginning. So it might have been overkill to have some of them going.

But anytime I did portfolio work, I put people through that system to see where the errors were and where the bottlenecks occurred and what happened along the way. And so by the time September, October rolled around and I started getting more busy, those systems were insane. Like they were, there was so much, the automation. Like I never dropped one ball because of them.

Cat Ford-Coates (20:27.788)
and invaluable.

Janice Smith (20:35.951)
And then when people kind of went, well, you know, I didn't get that email. And you're like, well, actually, I kind of see that you opened it up. So you're like, oh, oh.

Cat Ford-Coates (20:45.586)
Well, actually, this checks and balance here. No, and I get that. And you know, is a tightrope, you know, because when you're just starting and you're just putting the pieces in place, it does seem like a lot of overkill. But then as you build momentum and start building sales volume, you're like, God I thought to do that. man.

Janice Smith (21:07.971)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (21:10.606)
Whereas the people who come in who already have somewhat of a business in place, some experience in sales and photography and how they do things, it can be even tougher to sort of untangle what they're already doing to pinpoint, okay, how are you not doing what I teach? And that's just speaking as like a mentee because on the surface it seems like they're doing the right things, but the whole is like,

Your clients will show you where your gaps are before anybody else can ever see them. And so when things aren't working, right, it's really a matter of like, okay, what's not in place? Take me through your entire sales process, start to finish, to really kind of figure out what's the missing piece because we make assumptions. Once we're kind of sort of good at something and have found some success, and I do it too.

Janice Smith (22:01.901)
Yes.

Cat Ford-Coates (22:08.32)
I did it with the coaching program that I'm in now. Like I made assumptions about the process that cost me multiple sales because I was making assumptions. And the same thing's true with your photo business, with your job at the grocery store, like whatever, when we make assumptions, you know, it can get tricky. So do you feel like your work is having the impact at least on a granular scale?

of what you were envisioning or intending? Or is it doing something different? Like, what does that look like in your world?

Janice Smith (22:45.167)
No, I think that the impact itself is doing exactly what I intended it to do. But I think that came from focus and understanding the look and the feel and also promoting printing over just doing digitals. So I think that focus, it also gives a story to talk to. So people in turn

when they have it up on their walls, they have a story to tell about what we did. I think it's opened up my eyes to what it can be and how you can work with the larger community as a whole. Like I was always really impressed with Josh Beaton's Tween Esteem project because, you know, really that happens, that starts young and good humans.

Cat Ford-Coates (23:36.098)
Yeah.

Janice Smith (23:42.425)
grow up to be good humans when they're nurtured all along the way. so I did manage to find a group locally who is doing something similar, not so much on the photography end of things, but on the education side of things. And so we've started chatting on how we can make a photography project out of some of the work that they're currently doing. And that just kind of illustrates again the long

game that gets played when you start doing things like marketing things today. Like my marketing background goes back 35, 40 years and it was like print and you sent out press, well, and you still send out press releases, it was very, there was easy things to kind of go to. You went to the newspaper, you went to the local magazines and you did all of these things. Well, everything is online now and social media is such a big part of it.

and how do you deal with this? And when you make a change, it's a long time for that to actually come to fruition. And if you had told me that in March, which I think you probably did tell me that in March, and I was like, no way, it's never gonna take that long. And it does, like I made some changes to my SEO on my website six months ago.

Cat Ford-Coates (24:55.039)
No.

Janice Smith (25:05.771)
And those effects are just starting to trickle through on the analytics. it, you know, when you, when you jump into a big project like that with a company that plans for a year, so they've already planned 2025 out. So we're actually working on a project that's going to happen in 2026. And so you just have to shift your mindset when you see these big opportunities and realize that they need to be nurtured.

just like the idea of a new business and they all take time to kind of move. But in turn, I think that being able to let people know that these options are available and they're not that difficult to do, you know, like they never even thought about doing something like this. And now they're just like, well, how can we work it in? And even chatting with them at the beginning of January,

Cat Ford-Coates (25:58.626)
Yeah.

Janice Smith (26:02.413)
They were like, can we do something like in the next three or four months? And they're like, wow, have all of our programming's already done. And to do a big part of a gala or to do all the photo shoots like with Josh, his project takes a year to do. So they do the applications, then they do all the shooting, then they do all the artwork and then they have the exhibition. And so you really start to see how all of these pieces, it's kind of like planning a wedding.

Cat Ford-Coates (26:31.832)
bit, you know, when you get into this bigger collaborative projects like that, absolutely. You know, and I think that's the beauty of, you know, really mapping out your year, like from the bird's eye view, right? As, okay, where can we like, how can we have little wins? Right? And where can we have those larger projects? And you right now are working through your tattoo project.

Janice Smith (26:32.714)
That's kind of what I thought.

Janice Smith (26:37.955)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (27:01.376)
Incandescent is what it's called. Tell me more about that.

Janice Smith (27:03.577)
Yeah. So I love tattoo and I have quite a few of them. I like them a lot. And I'm always admired them. I didn't get my first one until I was 50, but since then I've gotten quite a few. And one of the things that I realized is that people always like to talk about them and

Cat Ford-Coates (27:08.504)
Me too.

Janice Smith (27:28.919)
I realized that they're photographed really horrendously for the most part, like usually with somebody's iPhone and they're usually taken when they're still red and they're still really not well. And so I started thinking, well, wouldn't it be great if we started taking tattoos, image portraits of tattoos. And it got elevated when I was at WPPI in March last year.

And I was sitting in a very small group with Jerry Guionis at the Graphy Studio booth. we were talking about different campaigns that we could do. And because there was only four or five of us there, he's like, let's dig into it. And the first thing he did is he looked at my arms and he said, you you obviously love tattoo. Why not do a tattoo project?

And then and so like within 15 minutes he was like had everything kind of sprinkled out. I was like, holy cow, that is so I could do it because I didn't want to do 40 over 40 or something that everybody was doing. Came home super excited, told my husband about it. He's like, yes, that's it. I was talking to a creative business coach that I had done some training with a long time ago.

Cat Ford-Coates (28:42.456)
Ha ha.

Janice Smith (28:52.217)
brought that up and she stomped on it like it was garbage. And I was like, she goes, yeah, people who get tattoos, they like to have their picture taken, but they never buy anything. And I was like, I don't know about that. So I kind of put it on the back burner and then we started talking about campaigns and I was like, I gotta do this. Like, this is so cool.

Cat Ford-Coates (28:57.592)
Really?

Janice Smith (29:19.599)
So I did manage to take some portraits of a beautiful young lady with some beautiful tattoos and that was great. And then I went to a women's expo and I started talking to people originally because we, saw their tattoos and we started chatting and the conversations became really easy. One girl I ran up to in the aisle and

tapped her on the shoulder. I said, I'm not stalking you. Well, yes, I am stalking you. Because she had been by a couple of times and I said, I really love your tattoos. They're amazing. Here's my card. Give me a call. Let's chat. You're obviously going to another thing right now, but here's my card. Let's chat. So two days later, she emailed me. We started the conversation and we had her shoot booked. We had like it was.

everything happened within two or three weeks and she was just so fun and she was so amazed at what we came up with. And yeah, she was just amazing. And then I ran a contest and the girl who won just happened to be an indigenous model who was tattooed like she had both sleeves done. She had some stuff on her legs and I mean it was amazing. And the photos that came out of that were

crazy. And she ended up purchasing as well as doing the gift certificate that she won. And so we created a portfolio for her with the matted prints in it. So on the front of this beautiful leather portfolio, says portfolio. And so now she can show her work to other modeling agencies with all of this work because we incorporated her tattoos into these amazing photographs of her. So

Cat Ford-Coates (31:04.193)
Janice Smith (31:12.439)
Now I have no problem talking to people on the street and say, Hey, this is what's going on. Do you want to be a part of it? so word of mouth, I've had four or five people just from word of mouth who are now booked and in the system and are going to be having their portraits done. Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (31:30.83)
That's terrific. That's terrific. So what's the goal? it like 10 more, 40 more, 80 million more, five more?

Janice Smith (31:41.039)
I, you know, I originally said 20 because I want to do an exhibition this year. So I definitely want to have the 20 done, which at this rate, I think we'll probably have them finished before the summer, which will really allow us to plan for the exhibition. But I would like to continue it because I think that when you're talking about self-esteem and, know, when you.

are having a kind of a crappy day and you walk by this amazing portrait of yourself and the meaning behind all those amazing tattoos that you have, there's just nothing better. There's nothing better than going, I can rock this day. You know, so you can remember it. And I described that to a woman yesterday and she was brought to tears in a cafe.

Cat Ford-Coates (32:21.966)
I love it so much.

Janice Smith (32:34.191)
Because all of a sudden she's like, you know, that's exactly what I need. I need something of me. So when I need to pick me up, I can do it for me. I don't have to rely. Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (32:45.071)
Well, it's that tangible evidence, you know, and I think I spoke about this on another episode recently. You know, there's there's real power in having, you know, that's why print is so powerful, because it's tangible evidence that that version of you exists. It's proof. Right. Like, and I don't care if there's costuming involved or hair and makeup or whatever. Right. There's still like, hey, that

Janice Smith (33:04.717)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (33:15.778)
That's me, right? you know, when that's in one of the tagline for my studio, right, is to celebrate the strength and grace of everyone that we photograph. Does that mean that there's never vulnerability showcased or tragedy or pain? Of course not. But the capacity for resilience, think is...

Janice Smith (33:16.857)
That's me.

Cat Ford-Coates (33:43.776)
really meaningful for people to see in a way that is, even though it's 2D, it's in front of them. Your brain doesn't know the difference. So when, you know, maybe you are having a rough day, but you know what? Maybe you're having a terrific day. Maybe you're like, everything's going my way, everything's coming up cat today, like yeah, yeah baby, that's you, that's all you, right? And have gratitude for that piece of art.

Because that version of you is the strength and grace that got you there.

Janice Smith (34:16.983)
Yeah. And I think, you know, like when you look back, like we were married 26 years ago and that's kind of the last really big kind of photo shoot that was ever done. And I mean, we we have our wedding pictures up on the wall because I have all the family pictures up on the wall. And there isn't a day that I walk down the stairs and don't look at that picture and go, wow, because we had a group shot taken of everyone who was there and not think

Cat Ford-Coates (34:35.342)
Ha ha ha!

Cat Ford-Coates (34:44.184)
Love it.

Janice Smith (34:46.573)
wow, all these people are there to support us every day. You know, all we have to do is ask. And I think that's what photography really does is it has that callback to when, you know, you had that amazing event and you're just like, wasn't that awesome? Like that was fun. You know, we go on these grand trips and, you know, we take a lot of pictures, which are great, but then print them.

put them somewhere, make an album, because they do get looked at. I think that's the one, know, print is such a big thing for me. you know, finding products that are tactile and are really luxurious only elevate the way you feel about yourself. yeah, like that's a big thing.

Cat Ford-Coates (35:41.688)
Well, print is about appreciation. Right? saw, forgive me, y'all, but it was a meme yesterday that was, I think I even shared it in the stories. But it was, know, photography is that craft that whose raw elements are light and time. Right? It's not, you're making something out of nothing.

and having that sort of impact. And so when you start considering like the medium, right, the medium could be projection, right? The medium could be printed on leather, speaking of Jerry Guionis, right? Like the leather pieces at Graphi Studio are, whew, wow. But it's about appreciation. When you have appreciation for a moment.

Janice Smith (36:22.095)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (36:38.83)
A moment in time, a version of you, a relationship. Having enough respect for that relationship, that moment, that chapter in your life, demands that you appreciate it with quality. Yes, we can put it on Facebook, 1000%. I could even take a bunch of photos and turn them into a video and put them on TikTok or Instagram or insert platform here.

And those platforms are terrific. The memories function on any of them. The archive function, awesome. Oh yeah, oh I can't believe that was six years ago. La la la la la. But it's ephemeral, it's gone.

Janice Smith (37:22.831)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (37:25.388)
when it's sitting right in front of you to remind you of all the things that you love or maybe hated about that time.

Cat Ford-Coates (37:37.698)
That's the power. Because you can step forward with full knowing about the feeling that carried you through that time period.

And so yeah, you can print it at Walgreens. You could put it on Facebook. But if it's meant to be part of the story of who you were, you have to have some form of appreciation for how it's brought to life.

Janice Smith (38:16.427)
Yeah, and I think that, you know, the one thing that I learned very quickly is I became a part-time employee so I could be a part-time mom at the school because here in Canada, and it's particularly in the area that I am, it's growing so fast and the schools need so much help. And so I became the school paparazzi and I was at the school all the time. I went on all the field trips. took like probably seven or eight thousand pictures over a year.

and then I would bring it down to about 1,200 and I would make a 20 minute slideshow for them at the end of the year. And the goal was to get everyone in there at least once. And so we're talking about a school that grew from 250 kids when she was in grade one to 900 when she came out of grade seven. And so we did this.

Cat Ford-Coates (38:56.75)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (39:11.881)
they were actually splitting the school up. So I had each kid hold a whiteboard with the grade on it and I took a picture of every single kid and every teacher in the school and then I ran it as a fast video. So you saw the kids from kindergarten go all the way up to grade seven and you saw the whiteboard slowly go up as they got bigger and the kids

went nuts because they all got to see themselves on this huge projection screen in front of the entire school and their friends and their parents and teachers. so that's where I really developed the power of seeing something printed or large or put out in a way that there was care attached to it. So the music was picked and they, you know, all the different things that they went through in that year was really, really big.

Cat Ford-Coates (39:59.95)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (40:07.565)
But I really put that on the back burner because I always thought, know, well, when I, you know, when the time is right, well, you know, it's like having a kid. There's never a right time. You know, you just jump in. so when I when I turned 60 and it was like, no, this is it. This is the time. This is the time. And it's going to be hard. And setting up this business has been the hardest thing I've ever done. And I've set up three different businesses in my lifetime. And this one has

Cat Ford-Coates (40:17.164)
hahahaha

Janice Smith (40:37.273)
being the hardest because it's meant the most.

Cat Ford-Coates (40:41.806)
yes, care. Care being attached to anything changes the dynamic instantly, right? And that's not to say that we can't go out and start a business or have a job that, you know, doesn't belong to us, right? With, you know, it's not like, well, screw you, whatever, right? But when it's attached to, like, the artist version of you, it suddenly gets monumental because...

Janice Smith (40:44.655)
Yeah.

Janice Smith (40:49.487)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (41:11.086)
we wrap up so much of our own self-value in how much we love it. And so when you start dealing with things like rejection and sales objections, you have to really learn how to, again, appreciate that for what it is. It's not a rejection of you as a person or who you are or even your artwork, right? It's just not in alignment today. And that's...

That's tough for a lot of people. still go through it every time I raise my prices. I'm like, God, nobody is gonna pay this. Nobody's gonna pay this. I am gonna just go broke and like, and then it's easier and easier and easier the higher you go. And you know, part of that is reputation, of course, right? It's not like you just come out of the gate swinging and people are paying you millions of dollars. Like it just doesn't, unless you're selling photos of a potato, it just doesn't really work that way.

Janice Smith (42:09.209)
or a banana taped to the wall.

Cat Ford-Coates (42:10.11)
Or a banana duct taped to a wall, right? But it's once you can start to untie, then what you're caring about, you get to watch it grow and then to flourish. And witnessing that with you just through 2024 and we're at the end of January in 2025 right now, like, and see the strides that you've made.

Because some days, you could come to calls and just be holding on to the top of your hair and just being like, just, I just, you know? seeing that evolution to, you know what, this was really hard. This was really hard. But, but, there's always the but. And the but's the great part. Like, literally and figuratively, right? Because that's the growth.

Janice Smith (42:58.873)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (43:02.946)
Because you can now take this entity that you've created that you love and adore and nurture regularly and scale it exponentially. And that scale looks different for everybody. For some people that is, OK, I want to work half as much. For other people that is, you know what? I just want to double the sales side of it. I don't want to work more. For other people, it's like, OK, how do I outsource? I need my time. It's any direction.

Right? Is it associate photographers? Is it upping prices? Like, what does that scale look like? And when you love something as much as you clearly love what you do and who you do it for, like, you can see in all of the portraits behind you, you very clearly love every single person that's in every one of those frames.

Cat Ford-Coates (43:57.794)
That's why you attach your campaigns to what you love.

Janice Smith (44:03.327)
Exactly. Yeah. And I think the other really interesting part is that you... So we all want growth to be a slope, right? We want it to go up gradually and we want it to just sort of happen. But the reality is you have to go through these big jumps. And when you're hitting the wall before you make the jump is really painful. But all of a sudden the jump happens and you're like...

Cat Ford-Coates (44:17.038)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (44:32.619)
What just happened? What, what, like why, like I, even last night, like I got a DM through Instagram and I post religiously and very consistently and I get like nothing and all this and I look and it was somebody who was like in my little town. That's amazing. And you know, just to start, start chatting with them and kind of getting, and it was about the tattoo project and

Cat Ford-Coates (44:34.051)
Ha

Janice Smith (45:01.999)
She was just like, yeah, the mind made, they mean so much to me. And I was like, yeah, I hear you sister. hear you. So I think when you, when you accept that things are going to be jumps rather than a slope, because that never happens, then you can kind of do that. But one thing that a quote that always meant so much to me was you can only connect the dots when you look backwards. You cannot.

see what they're really all like if you look back at your life and you look at all the things that you did like I can see now all of the stuff that I went through to get to where I am today but if you told me that 25 years ago I would have thought you were crazy absolutely and I think if in March I didn't see this future I hoped maybe it might be something like this

Cat Ford-Coates (45:40.729)
yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (45:50.328)
Yes, we cook bananas.

Janice Smith (46:01.945)
but I didn't see how I could get there. And so, you know, when you really sit down and the one thing that I have realized is that you have to tell people what it is that you want. If they're gonna help you and you don't know who's gonna help you, you have to let people know the story so that they can and they will.

Cat Ford-Coates (46:27.406)
And they will. Well, and you know, the how is not your responsibility until the map is delivered. Right? And so we were talking earlier about, you know, being decisive. And being decisive means that you have to make a commitment. And most of us are like, did you say the C word? Did you say commit what? And for why wait, right? But then the how starts to unfold.

Janice Smith (46:49.977)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (46:56.63)
Right? remember, you know, several years ago, Sarai, Taylor Roman and I opened a brand in Sarasota, Florida. And man, that was tough. Both of us were back and forth from Tennessee and North Carolina to Florida, month after month, networking every week, like, da-da-da-da-da. And finally, it was like, OK, we need to branch this out a little bit and slow down. Right? Like,

We were hemorrhaging cash going back and forth and it was never for vacation. And that was the whole purpose was like, we wanted to build this brand in order to just go to Florida and relax. And you know, it was kind of defeating. Like both of us still can photograph people there and you know, have a foothold. But it wasn't building the same way that we had built our independent from one another studios in Knoxville and in Asheville.

And, but when we started working together on the portrait system and co-hosting the 12 month startup and leading the mentoring team with them, I remember looking at Sarai and being like, that's what this was about.

we had to learn to work as a unit, even though we are completely independent of one another. Luckily, we're great friends, so it was like, okay, we can do this thing. There were some uncomfortable conversations that happened, right? But in looking back, could we understand and appreciate what those challenges were really meant to do for both of us? And I can visualize what I want.

but it's always in the abstract, right? Like rarely is it filled with detail outside of an ideal.

Cat Ford-Coates (48:53.902)
and an ideal is a moving target.

Janice Smith (48:57.582)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (48:58.83)
And so if you treat an ideal like a horizon line, right, for me in 2014, it was, you know, just idolizing Sue Bryce and her mentoring team and spider belts and leather pants and cool studios and warehouse and all this stuff, right? And like, I could visualize that in my head and I could sketch it out and see it and smell it and taste it and like feel just

completely lit up by that dream.

Cat Ford-Coates (49:31.778)
But it's a moving target. Like that was accomplished by like 2017. So then what? Then what's the new dream? What's the new ideal? What's the new horizon line? Because by the time you're halfway to something, it changes.

Janice Smith (49:52.335)
Those are some true words. Yeah. And I couldn't agree more because I think you, a lot of times you just can't dream big enough. you know, if that's the one thing that I take out of the studio takeover is you, it's the, what if this takes off?

Cat Ford-Coates (50:04.302)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (50:16.768)
Are you going to be prepared? And if you're not prepared now, what do you need to put in place so that you will be? And that's very different than the other businesses that I started. I didn't look at it from that perspective. This one I do because I can see how it can multiply once things start to move on their own. Like right now the rock is being pushed up the hill and it's

Yeah, it's tough, but it's for a purpose that is really personal. And so I can talk about it a lot more and move that stone a lot easier. And eventually it's going to start really going. And so I want to make sure that everybody who takes advantage of being in front of my lens, they get the same amazing experience every single time. that's, that took considerable planning.

to make sure that those pieces will actually work. And I think that's one thing people forget.

Cat Ford-Coates (51:19.054)
Well, Well, because we as photographers even fall into bad habits, right? I just need to shoot it. It's fine. I don't need to prep for it. It's like I'm going to go through, you know, the same poses and, you know, see what she brings to wear and la la la la. And the second you go to cookie cutter.

Cat Ford-Coates (51:43.936)
is when you're disconnected. Like there's a difference between being intentional and then working solely off of muscle memory. Because if you're working solely off of muscle memory, you can make a lot of money. And I'm not saying you can't, you absolutely can. But if the mission of your business is to deeply connect and facilitate empowerment for people.

then you're no longer serving as a technician for that mission. You're serving for something two or three rungs below. And if you can't be accountable to the purpose of your business, God, how could you possibly expect anybody else to A, support you in that, and B,

Pay for it.

Janice Smith (52:35.065)
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that's one thing that the portrait system and going to portrait masters and going to WPPI has really highlighted for me is that, you know, it's the connections you make when you're there. So go there with intention. Use the models who are there.

Cat Ford-Coates (52:53.646)
Mm-hmm.

Janice Smith (52:58.681)
to try different things, to build your muscle memory for posing and being able to articulate that to somebody. Like that's probably the one biggest challenge I think everyone as photographers has. How do you communicate what's in your brain so that they can do it and don't like feel like they're in a pretzel? You know, like how do you, it's about communication and you have to learn to communicate in a very kind and loving manner.

Cat Ford-Coates (53:07.086)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (53:15.054)
Sure.

Janice Smith (53:28.611)
but assertive so they understand what it is that you're looking for because you know that when you do that, you're going to get that amazing image is going to come out of there. And people really gravitate to that because that's what they're paying for. They're paying for somebody who's going to help them get to the place they want to get to. So.

Cat Ford-Coates (53:48.43)
Mm hmm. Well, and you know, when it comes to posing and that's, you know, appreciating, man, appreciation comes up a lot today in this conversation. Well, posing is a skill. It is a skill. And that's not to say like you shouldn't have sort of a library to pull from. In posing for me, I really like to sort of streamline

Janice Smith (54:02.127)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (54:18.016)
what happens when somebody moves their body in a natural way for them. So instead of just putting everybody through the same, you know, whatever, right? Okay, create diamonds and triangles, go. yeah, expression, right? It's really more how do they move naturally and then how can I tweak it for the end result? And you know, there's a lot of ways to approach posing. But when you get stuck,

Janice Smith (54:38.541)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (54:47.734)
And I used to get stuck constantly. Like, god, what do I do? What do I do? I don't know what to change. you're trying to do all the things, right? You're trying to throw the dress and change the light and get different expressions all the way and go into cover girl and then do all the things. And you're like, I am totally stuck and they're looking at me like a deer caught in headlights and I look like an asshole because I don't know what I'm doing.

Janice Smith (55:01.505)
and flick the hair.

Janice Smith (55:10.607)
Yeah. yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (55:12.162)
Take a breath. Take a breath.

What one thing can you change? Every time you change just one thing during your flow posing, even when you're out of flow, the composition has changed. So whether that's a shoulder, a chin, eyes, expression, where a hand is, right? Instead of this, like wrist to camera, just turn it this way, tilt the head. Okay, now we move that shoulder. All right, awesome, bring that arm around.

Janice Smith (55:20.781)
Yeah.

Janice Smith (55:28.015)
you

Yeah.

Janice Smith (55:41.891)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (55:47.352)
Tighten up, like it's just one thing because posing is just body language.

Janice Smith (55:53.827)
Yeah. And you know, the thing is, was funny because the last shoot I just did, she had this beautiful long hair, much like yours. And we had her do like the the 80s hair flick. And we realized that we had a big necklace on. Whack. Yeah, it was her. Yeah. And so but every time we did it, like I kept missing the right.

Cat Ford-Coates (56:02.99)
Thank you.

Cat Ford-Coates (56:08.878)
Ha

Oh no! At least it was your chin, god.

Janice Smith (56:22.401)
plays and she had a fair amount of product in her hair and so when we did it it it kind of didn't flow the same way. She's also a hairdresser so she had good product and

Cat Ford-Coates (56:22.68)
Mm-hmm.

Cat Ford-Coates (56:33.486)
She's like, there's $800 in my hair right now.

Janice Smith (56:36.131)
this works and she was right, that sucker worked well. But it was interesting in the, you know, finally we just looked at each other and went, this isn't gonna work. But when we looked at the pictures afterwards, when we did the incident reveal, she was just, she was howling, because we were both sitting there remembering, yeah, whack.

Cat Ford-Coates (56:54.14)
I'm sure.

Cat Ford-Coates (56:58.978)
Well, like, as I've got some necklaces, I actually just got one in from Free People. That's just like one of those big statement pieces, right? And I was just picturing that because it's got like a neck piece here and then it kind of comes down like some chains are holding another large piece here. And I'm just picturing that coming up and like taking somebody's tooth out.

Janice Smith (57:21.905)
yeah, it was that big. Like it went right down to the center and it was big rhinestones. Like it was a big piece and we had it kind of tight. So it was kind of up to in under her chin. But my goodness, when you have that much hair and you got to whip that hair back. Yeah, it was fun. She was she was a good sport.

Cat Ford-Coates (57:40.694)
It's a vibe. It's a vibe for sure. Awesome. Well, Janice, you know, it's the beginning of the year. What are you really excited about for 2025?

Janice Smith (57:52.857)
So the incandescent project is really going well and knowing that I'll be able to do the exhibition before the end of the year really lights me up. I've been working with another woman from a networking group that I got involved with and we're actually putting on a Women's Day Summit on International Women's Day. And I'm going to be one of the speakers and we're going to be talking about what it means to...

know why barriers are set for you and who actually sent them. So and getting back to that, what is what if I am enough? Like what if I didn't have to be anything other than me? And so the speakers are all going to be talking to that. So that's really exciting because that came together very quickly. And so I'll be talking a little bit about how photography really aids in that as well. And then. Yeah, my.

Cat Ford-Coates (58:32.494)
Cat Ford-Coates (58:39.298)
That is exciting.

Janice Smith (58:52.207)
My daughter's gonna graduate with her master's in August and yeah, I'm really excited about 2025. All the planning that's gone in and all of the, as you always say, the bird's eye view, like there's a vision there and I can see now where I need to continually look from above and then come down, not look down and go up and go, oh my God, how am I gonna do that?

Cat Ford-Coates (59:16.79)
I love it.

Janice Smith (59:22.937)
Yeah.

Cat Ford-Coates (59:22.968)
Well, just don't fly too close to the sun for too long there, Icarus.

Janice Smith (59:27.009)
Yeah. Exactly.

Cat Ford-Coates (59:30.656)
No, no, but in all seriousness, no. Like working on, you know, I know firsthand, like the care and attention to detail you've put into creating this business. And, you know, you've made some incredible strides in 24. And I remember like we spoke back in September, right? When you were really kind of struggling with time management and how do I balance this?

and my actual business, like it's moving and I feel tied and what do I do? Because you do care so much. And I can only imagine how that translates to how you shoot and how you show up to connect with your clients. And I know for a fact, like not just the exhibition, but for you to work all the way through that tattoo project for Incandescent to really bring something in.

incredible to this community of people is just going, you're gonna fly my friend.

Janice Smith (01:00:33.741)
Yeah, for the first time, I actually feel like I can and that I have the knowledge to be able to do it. So here we go, 2025.

Cat Ford-Coates (01:00:47.606)
I love it. I love it. I love it so much. Awesome. Janice, where can people find you online?

Janice Smith (01:00:55.385)
So they can find me on my website at janissmithphotography.com. I'm on Instagram at Janis underscore Smith photography. And yeah, look around, I'm gonna be big.

Cat Ford-Coates (01:01:10.316)
Yes, words I love, words I love. Janice, thank you so much for being here. And guys, make sure that you go and follow Janice on Instagram right now to keep up with the Incandescent Project and all the beautiful things that she has coming up in 2025. And of course, if you'd like to be photographed in your near BC and Vancouver, give her a ring.

Janice Smith (01:01:31.107)
Vancouver.