Protest to Peace: Jewish Voices At The Frontline

Join Penny Rosenwasser, a queer Ashkenazi Jewish feminist and racial justice leader, for a profound conversation on Jewish and Palestinian liberation. A founding board member of Jewish Voice for Peace, Penny shares her inspiring journey from leading peace delegations to Israel and Palestine, to being arrested at the White House for protesting for a ceasefire. Discover how she bridges activism with empathy, co-teaching anti-Arabism and anti-Semitism, and the role of Jewish-Palestinian solidarity in striving for peace. 

#JewishJoyfulResistance #ReclaimingJewishIdentity #ValuingEveryLife #BreakingTheChainOfPain #SolidarityAgainstOppression

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Transcript

Hello, everyone. I have Penny Rosenwasser with me here today on Superhumanizer. She's a queer Ashkenazi Jewish feminist, a founding board member of Jewish Voice for Peace, and has been a lifelong dedicated activist for both Jewish and Palestinian liberation. She's a racial justice leader involved in national and international humanitarian organizations and peace delegations.

including the Jewish Center for Nonviolence, Jewish Caucus of the National Women's Studies Association, and the Middle East Children's Alliance. Since 1989, she has led peace delegations to Israel and Palestine and has consistently been at the forefront of the biggest acts of civil disobedience by American Jews.

She co teaches an anti Arabism and anti Semitism class at the City College of San Francisco with a Palestinian colleague. And she's authored several books including the the multi award winning Hope Into Practice, Jewish Women Choosing Justice Despite Our Fears. Wow. I found Penny when she called me last year to thank me for being a continuous member of Jewish Voice for Peace, definitely an honor of mine.

This was much before October 7. She was warm, kind, deeply empathic, and so curious. We really got to know each other on that phone call. In a second phone call after October 7, We were both devastated. And while we were sharing our grief with each other, that's when I learned what a Shero Penny is. She told me how my monthly donation contributed to her travel to the White House, where she got arrested with fellow Jewish elders who chained themselves to the fence, protesting for a ceasefire, a profound act that made world headlines.

Penny, you really are the ultimate superhumanizer. Thank you so much for being here. 

Sure. And just a clarification, I'm no longer on staff at the Middle East Children's Alliance, but I'm still connected and support their work very much. 

 I can't wait to hear all about that. But before we begin, I like to play a game with all my guests called What Brings You Joy.

Would you play it with me? Of course. Penny, my dear, what brings you joy? 

My kitties. 

Oh, my God. Yes, I have two kitties too tell me about your kitties. 

Mario and Skylar there. One of them is around me now. They may I guess you probably won't be able to see them, but they enjoy the zoom call somewhat. 

Oh, nice.

They just sit by 

your side, huh? Yeah.

Beautiful. Thank you. What brings you joy?, 

Yesterday at 5am going to the port of Oakland when the cold and dark and rain and thinking there would be a handful of us and there were over a thousand people to shut down the port in solidarity with Palestine.

Wow, that's amazing. That also brings me joy. Thank you for that. One more. What brings you joy? 

The creek outside my house and with the rain, I can hear it gurgling , it just makes me happy. I, I talk to it all the time. Say thank you Creek. 

 Amazing. I bet that's like your meditation, 

Yeah, my deck, it just overlooks the creek. And even in the middle of the city, I have this quiet, calm, peaceful, beautiful reminder that life is good and the world is good.

Yes, mostly it is. Absolutely. Thank you for that. Would you mind doing that for me?

Of course 

Hani tell me, what brings you joy?

You, my dear, you bring me joy and you accepting to come on this podcast and share all your awesomeness with us. I had so much admiration going through everything that you've been doing and learning about your books and all the work you've been doing since 1989. It's really, really amazing. That brought me joy that you accepted to be here with us and share all your awesomeness with us.

Thank you. 

Thank you, Hani. Tell me, what brings you joy?

 A postcard came in the mail recently. You might recognize it. It's actually from you. Thank you so much for this it really brought me so much joy, for our, , audience who are listening to us. This is a picture of the Statue of Liberty, where the Jewish Voice for Peace organization held a huge protest, one of the biggest actually, at the Statue of Liberty, again asking for a ceasefire.

And in the back, Penny wrote me a really sweet message, and part of it says, we're grateful to have you with us as we do all we can to stop the genocide, let Gaza live. So when I saw this card, this really brought me joy. Thank you so much. 

 Lovely to hear. Thank you. 

Hani tell me, what brings you joy?

Sharing a meal with my friends that's been really bringing me a lot of joy just sitting down at the table with people who care, especially people who understand where I'm at emotionally, even if they have no connection at all to the Middle East seeing my friends try to hold space for me and my partner wherever we go, even if it's at a gathering that's, meant to be just all of us having fun, how our friends are showing up in all of this is really bringing me joy. Thank you so much for asking. 

I love playing that game. It's a quick way for us to get to know each other before we really get to know you So let's dive into all the awesomeness that is Penny. Would you tell us about you, where you're from and your 

background? Yeah, so I'm a white Ashkenazi Jew grew up in the suburbs of Northern Virginia in the 1950s.

Very white Protestant suburbs. There were a few Jewish families around, not many. In my graduating high school class of 450, there were about four Jews. So I grew up pretty assimilated, but I did go to Sunday school to Temple. It was a reformed temple from the age of four. I was confirmed at age 16. I didn't like it much.

Didn't feel very connected there but my family was visibly Jewish. My parents, for them, it was also very important that we blend in and belong as Americans. Both of those things were part of my identity. We had the Hanukkah menorah in the window and we also celebrated Christmas cause they felt like that was an American holiday.

It was very loving intellectual Jewish family. Grew up with a lot of music and poetry and theater and caring about people. My mom was very active in the community. She was a high school English teacher, and my dad was a lawyer for the Coast Guard. 

Wow, beautiful. They were also activists, it seems like.

 My mom was very active in the community. Yeah. When I started getting arrested, she was not that pleased. The first arrest was in the 1980s, there was a meltdown at, at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania and we were two hours downwind from that.

And there was a group called the Potomac Alliance this was happening all over the U. S. To do a civil disobedience at North Anna Nuclear Power Plant, I was doing it with a lesbian affinity group. I told her that was going to happen and she said, why would you break the law?

 I said, well, you, you told us to do what we thought was right. And I said nuclear power is very harmful and, it's poisonous but she came around and to the point that then she eventually started bragging about my arrest, including around getting arrested to protest the occupation of Palestine by Israel.

So, so she was able to change. Yeah. 

Amazing. You were an activist from a very young age. What was your journey towards being an activist?

 When I was in high school, I was president of the Kietz Club, which was a service organization, and that was the closest thing I knew.

we adopted this child from Vietnam during the war in Vietnam, in terms of sending money to help support this child. We did things we helped disabled children in the neighborhood, things like that. But I wasn't a political activist that my parents cared about.

They were liberal, but they weren't politically active. The civil rights movement was happening not far away and I wasn't that aware of that. But when I went to college I was really into theater 

 But it was a conservative kind of school, Denison University. the very first week they played a film called War Games, it really showed what was happening in Vietnam and the U. S. using napalm. And I was horrified. I had not been exposed to that.

 I immediately became a pacifist. This was the late 60s, early 70s. I wasn't a leader, but I became very active. We went to the Vietnam War moratoriums in Washington, D. C. We drive all night on the Pennsylvania Turnpike through the snow to get to those to protest the Vietnam War.

 Then I was a junior advisor in the freshman dorm which was an honored position. The black students at Denison started a movement called Black Demands.

 There was a huge mass meeting, hundreds of people. And these two young black women were standing at the center of the meeting next to this beautiful chair. It was the shape of an egg and cream colored and inside it had red satin cushions and it sat in the study lounge.

 They were making the point that the university was spending thousands of dollars on this chair Instead of spending money for scholarships for black students one of the demands was to have black faculty black classes a black student union and black scholarships this young woman, she was in tears and she talked about the racism she had encountered at Denison.

 Here was I, her junior advisor, and I knew nothing of this and I had never asked her about it. I felt tears. I just felt terrible. And that night I went to her room sat on her bed and she and her black roommate thankfully were willing to talk to me and we stayed up all night and they told me what it was like growing up black in East St.

Louis it opened up my world. I had no idea about that. I went out the next morning and bought Soul on Ice by Eldridge Cleaver and other books on black liberation. We shut down the campus and had this alternate college for two weeks where both students and faculty gave classes about racism and black liberation and other kinds of social justice issues.

 It changed my life. I've been grateful for that and never gone back. That was a key. period. I was what, probably 19 or 20 at the time. Yeah. Amazing. 

I'm not surprised at all that your journey took you from protesting the war in Vietnam to protesting racial rights, black rights, and all the way to where now you're protesting for Palestinian rights.

 There's so much in common between all those causes. Of course, at the root of it is this deep, profound humanity of just caring for people and life. I know that you've been to Palestine and Israel. In an op ed you wrote in Yes magazine, you talk about your moment of awakening.

It sounds similar to the moment you had understanding about Black liberation. You had a moment of awakening about Israel and Palestine when you were watching a play about the Sabra and Shatila massacre, and then that sparked your first visit to Palestine during the first Intifada. Since then, you've been seven times. Would you tell us a little bit about that moment of awakening and your time in Israel and in 

Palestine? Sure, Hani, I will say to backtrack a little, I grew up very assimilated. I never hid my Jewishness, but it wasn't that important to me.

 Then there were these Jewish feminist conferences in the early 1980s and I read a wonderful book called Nice Jewish Girls, a lesbian anthology. For the first time, I really emotionally deeply connected to my Jewishness and was very thrilled and excited about it. So when I heard about the occupation.

I didn't want to deal with it. I thought, I just want to feel good about being Jewish. It was this newfound, exciting identity that was connected to my feminism. When I heard these negative things about the occupation, I didn't want to deal with it.

I didn't want to look at it. Well, my lover at the time, Colleen, of blessed memory was managing this group called the Dance Brigade that was doing this play so I went with her because I cared about her, we were on the grass at the Vancouver Folk Festival, 

and, Nina Fichter also a blessed memory was the actress and she was reading the letter of a Jewish nurse who was taking care of Palestinian children who were dying at Sabra and Shatila refugee camps, thousands of Palestinians were murdered by the phalangist soldiers and the Israeli soldiers had let them in to the camp and so were complicit. I broke down in tears. I was sobbing. I felt that came into my heart, what was happening. I felt I have to feel, I have to look at this. I have to face this and see what's really happening and have to believe I can still feel good about being Jewish and also face this injustice that's happening here.

I've been fighting for justice, in all these other areas. That's when I decided I had to go see for myself. My friend, Barbara Lubin, who is head of the Middle East Children's Alliance, I knew she had led trips to Palestine. A few months later I went, I was a producer at KPFA a community radio. So I brought my recording equipment with me. I was very interested, especially in hearing the stories of women. You know this is before email, before cell phones. I had the contact info for different Palestinians to contact.

And there was also an Israeli women's peace march and conference schedule. So I was excited about that. I got there and started calling people and was there for about a month and stayed with Palestinian families in the West Bank and Gaza in villages and refugee camps.

It was life changing. I can remember whether it was a refugee camp in a room where, 10 people were living and that the toilet was a hole in the floor or whether it was a more middle class home on the West Bank, I was always greeted with such hospitality and warmth.

I felt very at home there. It felt very familiar. I always let them know I was Jewish. There was this love of food. Love of ideas, of arguing, of laughing. It was a life changing experience. And then also with the Israeli women, peace activists, many of whom were lesbian, they were the heart of the Israeli peace movement at that time.

 There was a big march of 5, 000 Israeli women israeli Jews, but as you know, there are also Palestinian citizens of Israel. So Palestinian women were in the march as well, all around Jerusalem with signs that say, (Hebrew Language) end the occupation. It was very, very powerful.

 What had just started then was this movement called Women in Black. That was a non violent. movement by Jewish and Palestinian citizens of Israel. It was based on former peace movements by women, women of the black sash in South Africa and mothers of the desert disappeared in Argentina, women would stand for an hour every Friday, dressed in black with signs that said, end the occupation in Hebrew and Arabic and English.

They would be at different cities and people would come by often and call them traitors and whore and throw eggs and tomatoes at them. I remember going up to one of these older woman. I had my microphone in my hand and I would ask people why they were standing there.

 I said, why are you here? She said, I'm Italian my whole family died in Auschwitz. I'm here because I don't want that to happen to any other people. I just deeply remember that story. I could also share more stories if you'd like to hear them.

Absolutely, please 

do. One that stands out I was going to Gaza for the first time. And I was taking a service, a taxi from West Jerusalem, I was by myself. But I had the phone number of this woman Alia at Marna House in Gaza City. I got in the service and everyone else in the taxi was speaking Arabic. We got to the Erez checkpoint going into Gaza, and the Israelis made everyone get out of the cab and apparently told the driver that he hadn't paid some kind of tax, so he couldn't keep going. So here I am standing there on this highway. I don't know any Arabic. It's not like there were Uber that you could call to get somewhere.

I wasn't sure what to do. This Palestinian woman in the hijab looks at me, motions for me to come with her. Takes me to the side of the highway, sticks her thumb out and Thumbs down a big tractor trailer truck and gave the driver the address where I was going to take me there.

 I've never forgotten that, kindness, that care, that was typical of the experiences that I had from Palestinians throughout the West Bank and Gaza. This was 1989 so that deeply touched me. An Israeli story. My friend, Terry Greenblatt, who is head of the Israeli women's peace group, Bat Shalom, talked about going to a group called Makson Watch, where Israeli women go to the checkpoints and monitor the checkpoints, and they say that when they're there, at least the soldiers let more of the Palestinians go through.

 She said it was scary for her. Even to go there but she said, I have to be able to look my children in the eyes and tell them that injustices were committed in my name, and I did my best to stop it. Another one, Neta Golan, Israeli Canadian woman, who I met there. One of the things that happened in the occupation, the Israeli soldiers uproot the olive trees of Palestinians, and olive trees, I know you know this, Hani, people who are listening might not know, it could be in your family for generations.

 It's very sacred, as well as getting sustenance from the olives and the oil. When they uproot these trees, it's a huge violation. Netta would chain herself to the olive trees to try to keep the Israeli soldiers from uprooting them. I also heard that they would put Palestinian towns under siege and the children wouldn't have milk, Netta would take milk and walk through the lines of the tanks to bring milk to the babies.

 In the Palestinian villages. So Netta had called and said, there's an action tomorrow. Dress in black and bring your toothbrush and meet us at this shopping center. There were ten of us. I was the only American, the others were Israeli Jewish women, this was at the Jewish Olympics called the Maccabiah. We went in there we got up to the stadium. Ariel Sharon was speaking as soon as he started we stood up and yelled war criminal. In Hebrew, and we unfurled a huge banner that we had smuggled in, and the idea was to try to get this on the media to expose him as a war criminal because he was one of the people that was behind these Israeli soldiers being complicit and their murders in Sabra and Shatila.

 Neta her arm had been broken by Israeli soldiers from one of the protests so she was in a cast, there was a Holocaust survivor, Hava Keller with us in her seventies as soon as we stood up and started yelling war criminal, all the people around us started yelling at us and beating on us.

The police arrested us. They dragged us out. They took us to the police station. Interrogated us until 2 in the morning. I remember when they took me in, they said, now you're going to have a record in Israel of being arrested. I said, oh, well, that'll be like my arrest record in the U. S. Finally at 2 a.

m. they let us go. Netta and I were standing there together to take a taxi back to Jerusalem. I said isn't it scary for you to do all these things? How do you do it? And she said, I'll never forget it. She turned to me and she smiled and said, of course I'm scared, but that doesn't stop me from doing what's right.

 I wanted to share those stories with you and of course I can share more, I'm 

sure I'm sure you are a wealth of very profound stories. The fight and partnership with these very heartful people, Israelis and Palestinians and Palestinian Israelis. It's been ongoing for so long.

When you were talking about the protests that you did where Ariel Sharon was, it's so similar to many of these protests that we're doing now with the senators and the congressmen in the US. It's really striking that you're 35 years down the line the fight is still ongoing and it feels like the fight has to go even stronger.

 How do you feel reflecting on that moment and where we are today?

I'm heartbroken. I'm struck with grief. I can't believe that these bombs are being dropped on Gaza as we speak, 23, 000 Palestinians killed, probably 30, 000 counting people under the rubble that we haven't been able to retrieve them yet. One Palestinian child killed every 10 minutes.

Every day, 10 Palestinian children lose a limb, lose a limb. I mean, Hani, I just showed you a video of my five month old new grandnephew, Zev, imagining him losing one of his limbs. I am complicit as a U. S. taxpayer. The 3. 8 billion that the U. S. sends to Israel every year, and now Biden is wanting to send much more, it has to be spent on weapons manufacturers in this country, on Boeing and Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin.

I am complicit in those bombs that white phosphorus that burns through your skin. I feel like I have to do everything I can to stop it. That's why I've been doing these actions I'm also thinking of when I was in Gaza our host took us to where 20 houses had just been demolished. It was the area size of a football field. This was in the middle of the night. So all those families were left without a home in the middle of the night. Our host Ali took us to a house that was left standing nearby.

 I remember, seeing this mother, she showed us the bedroom of her children that had artillery shells, holes in the walls of the children's bedroom. She introduced us to her two year old son, Dia, who had these beautiful bright brown eyes, and he wore these pajamas that had elephants on them. She said he still didn't speak because he was so terrified from the constant bombardment that he was too terrified to talk. That stands in my mind. And then Manal, who was a young Palestinian woman, former political prisoner, who took me all around Gaza. 

 She still had nightmares from being beaten by the Israelis when she was in jail. What was she in jail for? For being part of a political organization that was fighting to be free from the occupation. She would laugh, she had this beautiful spirit and when it was time for her to leave, She said, please don't forget me.

And she took a bracelet off of her arm and gave it to me. I think about these Palestinians wondering if they're still alive or not, you know? From the Middle East Children's Alliance, one of my former colleagues there Wafa is in Gaza right now, and she wrote on the blog, this is happening in the last month in Gaza City being together even so crowded We feel warm and we care about and support each other We hug the children and keep them close to us. When the children play they get a few minutes to forget what's happening around them Until the next shelling when they run back to their parents overwhelmed with fear There are hundreds of people Thousands, actually, still under the rubble.

This is what could happen to us at any moment. The psychological impact is unbearable. It's a continuous massacre. We hear about entire families who are erased. Our brains cannot absorb it. When we sleep, we try to choose the places that might give us a chance to survive if the house is bombed. We think about it all the time.

I can't imagine how it would be to live like that. This is three months now. Every night, not knowing if you're going to survive until the morning, or if your family members, your children, especially, are going to survive. how do you live like that? And the trauma from that, if you survive, and your children survive, is going to be ongoing for generations.

So I am in such grief, and so many around me. My Jewish colleagues, certainly my Palestinian Arab heritage friends. That's why I feel like I have to do everything I can, and I've been honored to be getting arrested as a Jewish elder at the White House fence.

The morning that Biden was having his Hanukkah party that night or closing down the Oakland Federal Building, with 700 others, 470 of us arrested yesterday morning at the port with a thousand closing down that port in the rain, in the dark fighting hard to press our government to demand a ceasefire.

The U. S. could stop this and Biden is refusing to stop it. And that breaks my heart. But that's why we have to keep doing all we can. 

You are, my dear, who is doing more than Jewish Voice for Peace right now. And if not now, and all these amazing Jewish led organizations that are really screaming out loud, not in our name.

You yourself are wearing right now a beautiful t shirt. Yes I 

will show you. Jews say cease fire now, and the back says not in my name, 

 When we see you guys do that, especially us as Arabs, has been one of the most empowering things for us to see.

 You are literally standing up to the Israeli government to the American government really the Western governments right now that don't see anything wrong with what's happening. We're at day 100 and we're seeing a fight in the ICJ through South Africa.

However, now we're seeing Canada say there's no basis and Germany wanting to come in and defend Israel. And the fight is still ongoing, Jewish Voice for Peace has been at the helm of that fight how did the idea for Jewish Voice for Peace happen, and who are the people that made it come about?

Thank you, Hani. I also did want to say that the Port of Oakland protests yesterday was organized by the Palestinian youth movement and the Arab Resource and Organizing Center. Those groups have also been doing phenomenal organizing. In the U. S. And around the world, Arab and Muslim communities and interfaith groups as well.

 But I am proud that as Jews. We've been able to do that as well. I was at the very 1st action which was in 1996. There was the tunnel incident in Jerusalem connected to the Western wall.

 They were drilling a hole underneath the area where the, temple mount is and the western wall and there ended up being huge riots. Palestinians and Israelis were killed. This was in the West Bank and Gaza for several days. These three young white Jewish students at UC Berkeley, they were just graduating they wanted to do something.

Julia Kaplan, one of them called around at all the Jewish organizations and said, what are you doing? And they said, we're not doing anything around it. So they organized this protest at the federal building of San Francisco and got a local rabbi rabbi Pam Baugh to speak and they were friends of mine

so they asked me to come. There were a hundred people there it was very powerful to have this protest and then people said, what's going to happen next? That's when they decided they needed to start this organization that they called Jewish Voice for Peace. Every time something really terrible happens like the bombing of Gaza or the invasion of Jenin refugee camp and 50 Palestinians massacred, more Jews become aware of what's happening and want to become active. So Jewish voice for peace has always grown when horrible things happened to Palestinians. And that's definitely been happening now.

 I got involved in 2002 again when the invasion of Janine happened and in 48 hours, we organized a protest and shut down the Israeli consulate and the streets in San Francisco and were arrested and our message was Jews to Bush and Sharon end the occupation and it put JVP on the map.

And then in 2007, at that point, we were just meeting in people's living rooms. We were a Bay Area chapter, and we decided we needed to go national because our aim was to change U. S. Policy to conform with international law. And that means ending the occupation and giving Palestinians rights, Palestinian liberation. Since then , we've grown, we now have 1 million followers on Instagram. I think there's 30 staff where we have chapters all over the country and doing these different actions. Again, since October 7th, have been able, with support to have these very large, visible actions over 2000 have been arrested.

I think there've been over 500 actions around the country. Those are not just the JVP actions. It's so many Jews saying not in my name and a lot of them younger generation folks, a lot of them queer. But we are multi generational, we're multiracial, we're the largest progressive Jewish anti Zionist organization in the world.

 There are other Jewish organizations around the world that are also doing this work. In this country, if not now, which focuses on younger Jews is also very powerful and doing fantastic organizing work They do a lot of integrating jewish ritual into their work as well rabbis being arrested, there was the statue of liberty grand central station the capital. Ours at the federal building.

We just did a big action Interrupted interrupted the california assemb of a california assembly 2024 by starting to sing ceasefire now just as the assembly was starting to meet, um, so yeah

The most iconic imagery I've seen is when the Jewish tradition is folded into these protests, like with the prayers and songs that have a very Jewish character to them.

But the words are about Palestine or about liberation, I love how it marries the essence of being a Jewish person, the struggle, the resistance, the resilience, you talked so much about the resilience of Palestinians when you met them in Palestine. And there's so many parallels of also Jewish

resistance and Jewish resilience. And it really shines through these protests and the way that these protests are communicated in artistic ways, in visual ways. There's so much thought put into these protests. It's not just a bunch of people showing up and saying cease fire now. There's so much more creativity that's going into these acts of disobedience.

 There's several songs that have been going really viral when it comes to these protests and I know you were a song leader. Yeah, some of these songs. Would you mind sharing one 

with us? I would Hani. When you were talking about the Palestinian resistance.

 My Palestinian colleagues have instilled this in me that even though some of the stories I've told have been how Palestinians have been victimized, the spirit of resistance that you referred to and of dignity and courage is so strong. And one of the things that most struck me, I remember I have a picture of this.

It was spray painted on the wall in Khan Yunis refugee camp. If you destroy our houses, you will never destroy our souls. And that to me, epitomizes the power and the dignity and the courage of the Palestinian people. I will sing this song, Cease Fire Now, that was written by Sol Weiss, a young Jewish activist. I will also mention that in terms of the symbols, when we did the event disrupting the California Assembly the idea was to pressure this Assembly to pressure our congressional representatives to sign on to the ceasefire resolution. So far, I think 63 have signed on only four senators but many House members and interesting that many of them are people of color. Um, but some of the symbols we used people were making poppies out of crepe paper because a poppy is a symbol from Palestine and the idea was to make 1500 poppies and that each crepe paper poppy would symbolize 20 Palestinians who have been killed.

 Including a lot of art as we as we do these. I will sing for you now. This is how we interrupted the California Assembly and this song has been sung at many, many of the protests at Grand Central Station at the Statue of Liberty. Cease fire now, cease fire now, cease fire now, cease fire now, let Gaza live.

Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Let Gaza live. Not in my name, not in my name. Not in my name, not in my name. Free Palestine. Free Palestine. Free Palestine. Free Palestine. Cease fire now.

So beautiful. Chills. Really chills, goosebumps, tears. Thank you so much. I know that song I remember hearing it when it was being sung at Grand Central Station and how it was ringing through the halls and everybody was just in harmony in grief. I thought it was one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard.

Thank you for singing that to us.

When I was leading the songs at the Oakland federal building, another song that we use a lot is it's an Israeli peace song. The Hebrew is (hebrew language) and the English is everyone needs a vine and fig tree shall live in peace and unafraid. Thinking about those children in Gaza that can't live in peace and can't live unafraid. That's when I threw my arms in the air and that's when the AP photographer took the photo that was used a lot because I think it was typifying the incredible grief and anger and compassion and heartbreak that so many of us feel.

We want the Israeli Children to live in peace and unafraid, and we want that for the Palestinian Children as well. Yes. So to let our hearts break for everyone who has been killed, including the Israelis massacred by Hamas. That was 1200. The hostages who we want to come home safe to their families, who it seems like Netanyahu doesn't really care much about because he keeps bombing.

No, they don't. And the, and the thousands and thousands and thousands of Palestinians being killed every day. All of them, many of them, women and children. We have to let our hearts break for all of them. We can hold all of it. It doesn't take away from our humanity. For me, it's a fight to hold on to my humanity in the midst of all of this to grieve all those and know that there's a power differential.

There's an occupation. One, the Israelis are occupying the Palestinians and we can hold all, we can grieve for all and also demand that the occupation ends and this system of apartheid that gives Israelis rights that Palestinians don't have demand that that end as well. It's a system of apartheid that in some ways is similar to how Jim Crow operated in the south in this country and how racism still operates in this country.

All of that is connected and part of the root of all this was anti Semitism In Christian Europe for thousands of years, which because of the Nazi Holocaust Jews were terrified and had to flee Europe and most countries would not let Jews in, including the U. S. It only let a few. So that was one of the only places they could go meaning to the area that was Israel and Palestine. Tragically, tragically, Jewish militias in 1948, drove out 750, 000 Palestinians. Many of them ended up in Gaza. They had to flee the area that was in Israel, and that was the ethnic cleansing that's still going on.

 You teach about this a lot I know you teach specifically about anti Semitism, anti Arabism, white nationalism, white supremacy, the links between all of those things. A talking point that comes from a lot of this propaganda that we hear the Arabs ethnically cleansed the Jews first, and the Arabs hated the Jews.

They kicked them out of all of these Arab countries, and that's where anti Semitism comes from, and all Arabs hate Jews. Can you give us some context about 

that? Well, that's complete misinformation. I mean, most of the anti Semitism in this world and I have studied this a lot but the core of it is Christian Europe anti Semitism.

That's where Jews experience violence and were killed in the pogroms in Europe, hundreds of thousands of Jews killed in the Inquisition in Spain, where Jews were either forced to convert or be killed or burned at the stake. That happened to Muslims too in the Crusades. In Muslim countries there was not that same violence.

Against Jews. Jews were treated as second class citizens along with Christians, but there was not that kind of violence. The violence has definitely come from Christianity and then continues in this country in terms of white Christian nationalism, which of course antisemitism is a core tenant.

 Which says that Jews are controlling power behind the scenes and that it's the Jews who want to displace white people and bring in black and brown immigrants to replace white people and that's what's called the great replacement theory. It was the white Christian nationalists who murdered 11 Jews in the Senate tree of life synagogue in Pittsburgh and also later in a San Diego synagogue, also white nationalists, of course, that have murdered black people

in their church in Charleston, South Carolina and in San Antonio, Texas, mostly Mexican people, black people in Buffalo, so there's a real, the white nationalists, uh, really want to expel Jews. People of color, they don't consider white Jews white. There are Jews of color, of course, they want to expel Muslims.

They want to expel people of Arab heritage. So what we really have to do is be in coalition and fight this machinery that is trying to harm and act with so much hate against any of us who they don't consider white. That's a really important message. And another really important piece, is that this is really key.

It is not anti Semitic to criticize Israeli government atrocities, like uprooting olive trees, torturing and killing children, stealing Palestinian land. Making it very difficult for Palestinians to travel it's no more anti Semitic to criticize Israeli government policies than it is anti American to criticize U. S. Policies. It's only anti Semitic if you're demonizing Jews as Jews. Yet what's happening today is people are being accused, especially people of color, especially Palestinians and Arab heritage. People are being accused of anti Semitism when they're just advocating for Palestinian rights, students are being attacked, professors are losing their jobs.

 This kind of repression is terrible. That takes away from the real anti Semitism that is happening in this country from white Christian nationalists. In my own neighborhood, the beautiful big Hanukkah menorah was destroyed and thrown into the lake. That's vandalism, but that's so it's really important to look at what's real about anti Semitism, from the white Christian nationalists and then to 

 Inform people that criticizing Israel is not anti Semitic. 

Thank you for that clarification. What is anti Semitism? It's a hatred towards Jews as a people. It's not criticism of Israel and to tie it to this movement of white nationalism, which really has been at the core of a lot of hate actions in this country and in Europe and beyond, I would say, because hate tends to be contagious.

What about christian Zionism? Do you have any insight about that? 

I will. And I also just wanted to make sure we also include the anti Arab racism killing this young six year old boy in Chicago. Wadee Al Fayoumi stabbed by his white landlord for being Palestinian? The three young Palestinian students in Vermont, shot at on Thanksgiving weekend by a white man who certainly seems likely was full of hate and very possibly a white Christian nationalist, and one of these young men paralyzed. I think it's really important anti Muslim and Arab hate crimes rising in this country all over the place along with the anti Semitism rising in terms of Christian Zionism.

There's a group called the Christians United for Israel. It has 10 million members. That's greater than the population of Jews in this country, which is about 7 million. They are under the radar. They very strongly advocate for Israel and Israeli policies because they want the whole area that's Israel and Palestine to be populated by Jews because that will then, according to their belief system, usher in the second coming of Jesus. The other part of it is then all the Jews must convert to Christianity or be killed. That's deep and intense and people, I think that again, under the radar, most people in this country in the U. S. are not aware of this strong power of this Christian Zionism that definitely backs the Israeli government policies and is a major factor in all of this.

 I didn't know that they expect all Jews to convert to Christianity afterwards. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I know there's the epic battle story where basically Israel is pushed into this huge world war three kind of apocalyptic battle, which actually ends with the destruction of everyone.

It sounds like in that story then the Antichrist comes, which then leads to the coming of Christ himself. Which to me I was raised a Muslim, but I was raised in Lebanon, a Christian country. I myself am very spiritual. I'm not religious at all. I love Judaism. I believe in taking the good out of every religion and creating your own, I learned about reconstructionist

judaism recently. I feel like I'm a reconstructionist spiritual person. I've reconstructed all these faiths into what I believe today. First of all, Jesus was all about love. I have no idea how we can reconcile this epic battle. Everybody gets destroyed. that's how Jesus is gonna come from this, mass destruction of people. That's one that I find completely ridiculous. The other one I've read that these beliefs are also anti Semitic because they are supporting Israel because they want to see it destroyed so that Jesus can come back. It's so striking to see these alliances that are happening between these governments and the influences of these religious groups on the government.

 It's striking to see that some of these alliances are not based in the mutual prosperity and safety of each other. It's really based in just furthering each other's religious beliefs, which is so shocking to me.

 When you mentioned the Jewish spirituality I just wanted to add when I go to a synagogue something in the liturgy that's been leaping out to me since this all started on October 7th is something that says, choose life that you and your children shall live. That's kind of the core for me.

 There's also a quote from the Talmud, which is the sacred Jewish text. I'm going to read it. Whoever destroys a single life, destroys the entire world. Whoever saves a single life. saves the world entire and valuing every life is precious. That's really the bottom line for me right now.

 My synagogue, Kehillah Synagogue in Oakland was founded by Rabbi Bert Jacobson to combat the narrative that's so prevalent around Jews as victims. He didn't want that to be the Jewish identity. We can be informed by how Jews have been persecuted, but that should not define who we are.

 Of course many groups of people have been victimized. I think Jewish victimization also gets manipulated by Jews and Christian leaders to manipulate support for Israel. It's an imperialist mentality because it feeds the weapons industry. It gives the U. S. a foothold in the Middle East and access to Middle East resources.

 It's important to look at all of those pieces. My book, "Hope In to Practice Jewish Women Choosing Justice Despite Our Fears" talks a lot about that. Yes. 

And that was going to be my next question for you, actually. Your book zeroes in on this victimhood piece and how to free ourselves from it.

 Your book is called Hope and to Practice Jewish Women Choosing Justice Despite Our Fears. That's only one of many books you've written that centers around Jewish liberation and also embracing the beauty of being Jewish in terms of the B'Tselem Elohim and Tikkun Olam. This all lives are precious, this kind of identity that's rooted in strength and mutual humanity.

There's an editorial review that says in your book the question, what could Jewishness be without suffering or victimhood is asked in joy, not in shame. What does that mean? 

 What I was talking about before with Rabbi Burt founding Kehillah, my synagogue, based on joy.

There's a program for the children that we have at the synagogue called Joyfully Jewish. That is about celebrating the joys of that and not focusing, and it's not denying the victim part, but not focusing on that. In my book, I have a chapter called Jewish Positive, where I talk about, all the positive things about being Jewish, including all the ways Jews have resisted oppression and all the allies who have fought for Jews.

In fact, here's a story, that I'd love to share it's about Rosa Robota. This was during the Holocaust, one of the most courageous unsung heroes of the Jewish resistance. She was 19 years old. After seeing her own family march to the ovens, Rosa organized the smuggling that supplied dynamite that blew up the Auschwitz crematorium.

Working in the camp munitions factory for months, Rosa and her friends carried out little wheels of dynamite, which they smuggled in their bosoms or in the hems of their dresses. Our guide at Auschwitz said they smuggled the dynamite in their fingernails. After she was captured, as she and her friends were hanged, Rosa shouted, Chazak ve'hamatz, be strong and of good courage.

 These kinds of stories combat this image of Jews as victims, there's the famous story of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. 650 young Jews holding off the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto with very minimal weapons for over three weeks before most of them were finally killed, though a few did escape through the sewers.

 That uprising awakened the conscience of Europe, and there became many more uprisings after that. Those are just some examples of reclaiming this history and basing it in a joy of our Judaism and not focusing on how we've been victimized again, not denying that, but that's part of who we are.

And many, many groups, look at black people have been slaves. Look at Palestinians under occupation, around the world, we can look at groups that have been victimized and we can use that experience to join together and be in coalition together and in solidarity. To fight back against these different kinds of oppression.

Absolutely. So beautifully said. So profound, Penny, just like your soul, everything you're sharing I'm learning so much as I'm hearing you speak. I love this identity of Jewish joy. rather than Jewish victimhood. I'm hoping that's something Jews around the world can reclaim, especially Jews in Israel, and Jews in America who are on the fence about calling a ceasefire, who feel scared that a ceasefire is going to actually equate to Hamas rising again 

and who are actually afraid of stoking anti Semitism if they criticize Israel. So what would your message to them be? 

A big part is about valuing the preciousness of every life. That is really core to who we are, again, the choose life that you and your children shall live there's a quote from Rabbi Michael Lerner.

The message of Torah is that the chain of pain can be broken, that we do not have to pass on to others what was done to us. Everything I was saying about what's happening right now, this is one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world right now. It's the most unsafe place for children. As Jews we have to honor that and place that foremost. One of the messages of my book is have the courage to face our fears, but not act on them. Irina Klepvich escaped the Warsaw Ghetto when she was four years old with her mother.

Her father was one of the leaders of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising and he was killed . She just retired from teaching at Barnard. She's a white Jewish lesbian. She was teaching Yiddish and women's and gender studies. She talks about how she has to keep reminding herself. Our fears are real.

They're rooted in history, but they can't keep us from speaking out and making just choices. We have to choose justice despite our fears. That's how I got the subtitle of my book. I also want to quote here, this was written by the Youth Wing of Jewish Voice for Peace, We are punks and students and parents and janitors and rabbis and freedom fighters.

We refuse to knowingly oppress others. We refuse to oppress each other. We will not carry the legacy of terror. We won't buy the logic that slaughter means safety. We commit to equality, solidarity, and integrity. We seek breathing room and dignity for all people.

 As a racial justice leader in my synagogue for me, ethnic cleansing and genocide are not my Judaism.

They're not Judaism, they're not Muslim, they're not Christian, they're not. They're not human. Anybody who believes that this is part of their self preservation, there's a missing link there. Something went wrong there in terms of how we attach our spirituality, our religion to something that can be so destructive to others, and especially in Judaism with valuing all life. Thank you for sharing all those posts with us. I just want to say this time went by so quickly, Penny, I could hear you tell me stories all day. I hope one day we will sit at the same table and I will absorb more of the awesomeness that is Penny.

To wrap up our time together, I know you've shared a lot of posts with us today, but would you happen to have one more notable post, poem, or piece of writing that helped you navigate the conflict? Or if not, if you have a stress management practice that's been helpful to you?

I have probably more than you really have time for, but I'm going to share three of these.

 Let's do it. Hani, and my hearing your stories. I know that you have a lot of beauty and wisdom to share, so it's an honor to be in conversation with you. This is a quote from Jewish Israeli anti occupation activist Sahar Vardi who says it's that moment when you talk to an Israeli friend who doesn't know whether their relatives are dead or kidnapped and to see the helplessness, the fear, the deep pain.

 A moment later, it's talking to a friend from Gaza who can only say that every night is now the scariest night of her life. That she calculates her chances and those of her daughters of waking up alive the next morning. It is to hold everyone's humanity, and it's hard. As if we don't understand that there is no solution only for the pain of one, without a solution for the pain of the other.

 I will just say that the there are several practices I definitely use, including one I used this morning before getting on this call with you. You're very likely familiar with the emotional freedom techniques, the tapping. Yes. And I find that people can Google emotional freedom techniques.

It's a way for me to deal with grief, anxiety, worry. It's about tapping different parts of our bodies that are the acupuncture points that can just help. It's not to take away the troubles, but to help me at least be calm access my own humanity and ground myself feeling in my body, being grounded in my body.

 I find it a very, very helpful way to handle stress. I'm a big advocate for it. Then just the breathing, paying attention to the breath and that technique of breathing in. I use this a lot in my workshops, breathing into the count of four and breathing out to the count of eight.

 That's also I find a beautiful way to deal with stress. So thank you again.

It's been a real honor to be here with you. 

It's my honor. And I'm not surprised at all that you have a mindfulness practice there that helps you deal with everything. To end our time together, I'm just going to share one small post with you and then a prayer. Is that okay with you? Please. This post is from a profound human being that I wanted to commemorate. Her name is Shazi Weisberger it was actually the one year commemoration of her death on December 1 that just passed of 2023. She says, I'll fight like hell for a free Palestine until the day I die. Then I'll keep fighting.

Your queer ancestor is with you. I wanted to honor her legacy and her spirit and her queerness, which are all very much still with us today. Rest in power, dear Shazi. Thank you so much, Penny, for being with me today. It's really been such an honor to listen to you and connect with you. It's an act of the universe that we found each other and having this time with each other. Thank you so much for being here.

Well, it's a joy to me to get to connect with you, Hani, and I look forward to more. Thank you for your beautiful patience in navigating our technical challenges. 

It was a pleasure.

I'm really glad we got to do it. I'll end with a little prayer. May all beings everywhere thrive in peace and dignity and share in all our joys and freedoms. And may we see true peace for all in the Middle East in our lifetime. May 

it be so. Thank you. 

Thank you.