SuperHumanizer Podcast

Decolonizing Cinema: Unapologetic Filmmaker Takes On Hollywood

• Dr. Hani Chaabo & Katie Bogen M.A. • Season 1 • Episode 18

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Join Rolla Selbak, a multi-award-winning queer Palestinian American filmmaker, as she shares her unapologetic journey through the landscape of Hollywood. From her Sundance-backed feature film to developing series for Sony and Disney, Rolla exposes the industry's deep-seated stereotypes and the cost of speaking truth to power. She discusses the myth of the "good Arab," the importance of artistic integrity, and how she's using her platform to humanize Palestinians and challenge the gatekeepers of cinema with her new project for aspiring filmmakers. Through personal stories of struggle and resilience, Rolla offers a powerful vision for a decolonized cinema where queer and Arab voices can finally be heard.

Like to read? 👉🏼 Check Out these Blog Posts:
Decolonizing the Screen: Rolla Selbak's Mission to Reclaim Palestinian Narratives

The Self-Taught Revolution: How Rolla Selbak Broke Into Hollywood on Her Own Terms

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Hey, wonderful super Humanizer friends. This is Dr. Hani Chaabo. Before we dive into this awesome episode, I wanted to take a moment and be real with you. So much work goes into bringing you these conversations, the research, the preparation, the production. It's a labor of love, and it's a lot of real work. If you found value in these stories, we'd love your support. Join our Patreon for as little as $10 a month. You'll get early access to episodes, extended interviews, and even direct access to Katie and I, or you can send a one time or recurring donation through our PayPal link. Both links are in the show notes below. You are helping us build a team to produce more content and inspire more humanity. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Welcome to Super Humanizer Podcast, where we promote empathy and understanding in polarizing viewpoints through stories told by people living them.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Hello everyone. I have Rolla Selbak here with me today on Super Humanizer. She is a multi-award winning Palestinian American filmmaker who's also queer and Muslim. Her films have been critically acclaimed for shedding light on experiences of immigrant Arabs and their marginalized communities and challenge stereotypes related to sexual and gender identity. Her stories also tackle mental health and the Israeli Palestinian conflict. She's a Sundance Alumna 2022 winner of the prestigious Blacklist Muslim list, and is currently working on developing television series for Sony Pictures and Disney's freeform. I found Rolla on Instagram when she was calling on all storytellers and filmmakers to channel their art into humanizing Palestinians and telling their truth. Rolla's work goes far beyond entertainment. She's the founder of the Sena Filmmaker Project, which provides free mentorship to Palestinian filmmakers around the world. And right now she's working on The Visitor, a Palestinian folk horror film that's being produced by Watermelon Pictures, A project that's breaking new ground by bringing Palestinian folk core to the horror genre. What's remarkable about Rolla is how she's used her platform, not just to tell her own story, but to amplify Palestinian voices at a time when that comes with real professional risks. Since October 7th, she's become one of the most prominent Palestinian voices in Hollywood, appearing on podcasts and using social media to educate people about Palestinian history and the ongoing struggle for justice. She's unapologetic and remarkably gifted. A true super humanizer empowering Arabs, minorities, and women. Rolla, thank you so much. It's truly an honor to spend precious time with you today.

Rolla Selbak:

No, thank you. Thank you for this, and thank you for such a beautiful uplifting and hopeful platform. I'm happy to be here,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Habibti. Thank you so much. So before we begin and get to know all your awesomeness, I'm gonna play a game with you called, what Brings you Joy that I play with all my guests. Are you okay with that?

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah, let's do it.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Rolla habibti what brings you joy?

Rolla Selbak:

Uh shoof a'oullak(look ill tell you), it's hard. I want to acknowledge off the bat that it's hard to feel joy when your people, cannot feel joy when your people are not joyful. But, there are things that, do bring me hope, and hope is, adjacent to joy. So, I think what brings me hope and joy,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

um,

Rolla Selbak:

is

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I love that,

Rolla Selbak:

thank you, habibi. What brings me hope and joy is the beautiful global, movement and community that we have, found ourselves in. it's something that you only kind of, dream about in a way, that we all collectively come together, not just for Falasteen, but for oppression, and marginalized people around the world. and it's really brought people from all walks of life, no matter what land language you speak, no matter where you're from, no matter who you are. And, and that brings me a lot of hope, which in turn brings me joy.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Beautiful. So beautiful. Thank you. What brings you joy?

Rolla Selbak:

Music, uplifts me, which brings me joy. Mm-hmm. with music, you even see like in Gaza, and in Falasteen itself, it's a way, to really, spark your inner hope, which again brings joy. I really have been leaning into music a lot. even when I do, like my Instagram lives, I always have music in the background because I feel, again, it, it's a way that we collectively experience and something we can collectively share. Again, no matter what language, no matter who you are, where you're from. So I think music also brings me hope and joy.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Beautiful. And I did see you're a wonderful, accomplished piano player.

Rolla Selbak:

How'd you find that?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I told you I went into the Rolla vortex.

Rolla Selbak:

A'am betbahbish(you went digging). Okay.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I did. I went into the of Vortex and it was wonderful. Thank you, my dear. One last one. What brings you joy?

Rolla Selbak:

I'll do something simple. What brings me joy is really the simple things that, Are people and Gaza and a lot of places around the world, don't get to experience, which is, just taking a breath without pain. physical pain, drinking water, having a meal when you feel like having a meal, drinking shea when you're feeling a little chilly now in the winter. Those are things that, it's not necessarily that they make me feel joyful. But it's that I always feel with our friends and family who cannot have that at the moment. And I always, hope, I hope that, changes, in the future and hope that we are part of that change

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

thank you so much. I really enjoyed listening to those joys, and I've learned more about your heart. would you mind doing that for me?

Rolla Selbak:

Let's do it. I love it. So Hani afandi (sir), what brings you Joy

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

being here with you, my dear. It's bringing me a lot of joy. I was so happy to connect with you. Like you said, like us coming together and all of this has been truly a miracle and a blessing. And when I found you and started learning more about you, I was, I thought, wow, an Arab that is really out. Spoken and sharing all these stories that need to be talked about in the Arab world, especially for me as also a gay man and an Arab. To see somebody telling stories that on some level also tell my story. So that really brought me a lot of joy.

Rolla Selbak:

I love that. That actually means, means the world to me. and what else brings you joy?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

So I am also a piano player and

Rolla Selbak:

I love it.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

That has been my saving grace these days. Absolutely and I definitely need, that interstellar, sheet music from you.'cause you played it so beautifully.

Rolla Selbak:

You're very,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

and that's a very complex one.

Rolla Selbak:

Very sweet

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

watching that brought me a joy as well.

Rolla Selbak:

I love that. I'll tell you a secret about that, after I ask you. One more time. Hani, what brings you joy?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I'm gonna, echo you on when I see that our family in Palestine are getting some aid that there's so many people advocating for them, people that you would never think would be advocating for them, like actors in Hollywood. Like politicians in South Africa. Like just people like me and you, regular people who, just can't see this anymore. They can't see oppression. And what brings me even more joy is that standing up for the Palestinian cause has also allowed us to stand up for the people in Sudan, the people in Congo. And we're seeing those voices amplified as well, which, which also brought me joy. Thank you. Yes, thank for playing that game with me.

Rolla Selbak:

I love this, because it's easy for us to get into despair especially now, and so I love that this r eally makes you look inward and be like, not all of it should be, or could be despair because then we'll destroy ourselves. And without hope and without joy, then, we can't give other people hope and joy. So I love, I love this game. Do you wanna hear a, a secret about the interstellar?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

yes.

Rolla Selbak:

Sheet music?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Yes, please. Here's a secret. I don't know how to read sheet music.

Rolla Selbak:

What? I don't, I play by ear, so

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

mind blowing. Mind blowing. Wow. So

Rolla Selbak:

I listen to something and then I, I play it, but I don't know how to read. Yeah.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

That's amazing. Even more telling of your genius and your creativity and the art that lives within you. Thank you for telling us that secret. I encourage all our listeners to go immediately to Rolla's profile and listen to her playing interstellar that she learned without sheet music. So tell us more about you. You're so awesome. Where are you from and what is your background?

Rolla Selbak:

my background, my family's Palestinian, my mom and my dad. so my mom's family is min l Kuds (from Jerusalem). So from Jerusalem, and my dad and his family, is from Amer, which is kind of, I'd say next to Haifa is maybe a good way to think of it. so that's where they're from. and then I grew up in Abu Dhabi, in the UAE and yeah, and then after the first Gulf War, we came here to the United States. Because, things were unstable, opportunity, all that type of stuff. So I came here, to the US for high school, university, and yeah.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Nice. And how did you get into filmmaking?

Rolla Selbak:

Ooh, filmmaking. I have been obsessed with filmmaking since I was a kid. So when I was in Abu Dhabi, my dad, brought home like one of those big, like VHS cameras, you know, like it was the size of my head.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Yes.

Rolla Selbak:

Uh, and uh, originally he got it for what do you call it, like birthday parties and all that type of events, events. I immediately took it over and I would, do all sorts of, like, I'd dress up my little sibling, my younger siblings, sorry. Oh, they hate that I said that. My younger siblings, in funny outfits and music videos and stories and movies and, I did my first short film, official short film, when I was like 10 and it was called Never Give Up. Uh, and my mom was my dp'cause I also acted in it. don't worry, like no one will ever see that, ever. So I'll never show it to anyone.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I wanna see even more now.

Rolla Selbak:

No, it's eager and as, as a title, right? Like never give up. So ridiculous. yeah, so I, I fell in love with it, but you know, when I was younger, There was a place called, uh, Dukkan(shop), so like a little bodega it's called AlKamal. and it used to sell, hummus sandwiches but, they also sold bootleg VHS tapes. So you'd just leaf through these folders of these American movies and TV shows and all that stuff. And you'd be like, oh yeah, I wanna watch, The Simpsons or the Sound of Music or, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, and then they'dliterally record it on a VHS tape for you and then you take it home, so,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

wow. Mm-hmm.

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah. Yeah. So that's was, I was obsessed with movies, tv, all that stuff, but I never thought in a million years that I'd be able to do, it. Wow. Right. It's like, oh, you're playing around with a camera and your friends and your siblings and your family, but I never thought that. It's oh, filmmaking is for people like Spielberg or for people like James Cameron or for, Scorsese. Like, I can't do it. Mm-hmm. or not that I can't do it, it's not for me. It's not meant for me. I'm only the audience. I'm not the creator. I'm not the maker. I'm not the whatever. So when we came to the US, I love technology, so, I got my computer science degree, but as, as I was getting my degree, just, it kept nagging at me. I'm like, I just love writing. If I can't direct, why don't I just write? So that's how it started. How do I write maba3ref (I don't know)? I literally went to the library and I got like screenwriting one-on-one. I didn't know anything about it. I just. Started writing and trying and do this, do that, and I got scammed. I got scammed some Hollywood's like, oh, pitch your script to Hollywood for like, something crazy, like $10,000. It was some big scam that like, like 7awwashet kol hal masare (hoarded all this money) Like, saved up, and I went to LA and I tried to whatever and took my money and. I know this, you live and learn. this is what I learned.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

In Arabic we would say, what a ba3sa (screw over). Yeah, right. Yeah. like they screwed you over. Totally

Rolla Selbak:

screwed you over for definite ba3sa. So this was a lesson I learned, which is I'm like, look, if no one's gonna make my stuff, I should learn how to do it. Okay. Halla2 (now) I did writing. Let me try and direct. So I wrote some short film. I went on Craigslist. I didn't know what I was doing. I just, I'm like, what's in a crew? I guess you need a camera person. Let me get a camera. But yeah, and I just started literally making up, you know what I mean, looking, da, da, da. So I got my first crew. I did my first short film. I actually snuck into my, my place of work. I was working at a technology company at the time. And then the weekend I used my badge, my security badge to go in and, use the office as a office location. Thankfully the security didn't catch us. But I did that. I did a short film and then I'm like, huh. I saw my editor editing. I'm like, I need to learn how to edit. So I paid him extra. I'm like, listen, if I pay you a little extra, do, do you mind if I just sit here literally over your shoulder, nag you, every day, ask you questions, he's like, yeah, go for it. So that's how I learned to edit. And that's, that's literally how it started. Like writing, directing, editing, producing and I just kept going and going and going I made another and another, and another until I started getting into film festivals and, you know, getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And then finally the, the kind of big moment was when I did three veils, which was,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

mmhmm.

Rolla Selbak:

My, my second feature film. And that kind of really catapulted me into the. Kind of international like film festival scene and Yes. Yeah. And I never looked back after that. So

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

beautiful. So you, you basically did the same thing you did with your piano playing. You got crafty, you taught yourself, and you did so amazingly well. And I'm, I'm definitely going to explore some of your films with you 'cause they're mind blowing. But before I do that, you are a triple minority. Especially in the film world, you are a queer Palestinian and Muslim. How do you reconcile being queer and Muslim?

Rolla Selbak:

I don't think that there's any reconciling for me. I don't know what there is to reconcile really. But maybe other people, it makes other people have to reconcile with whatever they need to reconcile with. faith and who you love really, I.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Mm,

Rolla Selbak:

don't have anything to do with each other in, in some way. I understand that, maybe, different interpretations of holy books, whatever they are, right. I understand that. There are people whose job it is, is to interpret these things. And very specifically, and this is what it says, but I also know that, there's a pick and choose type of a thing that's going on, right? I think in the end, it's between you and the universe or you and the maker and And kind of live and let live as long as not only as long as you are not hurting anyone else, but as long as you are helping people and in service of people and in humanity, I feel comfortable putting my head on my pillow at night, and that's the most important thing. So.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Beautiful. I wish, as a child I knew of you because it would've been so important for me to see that and to help me, come into myself and to also reconcile my Muslim upbringing with being gay. And I know your movies are so important for both Arabs and all people, really, all people that are experiencing having to wear a different mask.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Or having to conform.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Um, and so I'm so grateful for you, and I wanted to ask you that question because I thought it was so important for people that didn't have that like me and you. Uh, to, to hear that from you because they can be reconciled and it's between you and your maker.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And spirituality is, not about who you love, it's about how you move in the world.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And how you interact with others. And I definitely think Islam is something that can exist at the same time as being queer. So thank you so much for answering that for us. How has being a triple minority, given you opportunity in the world that you're in

Rolla Selbak:

opportunity? I think the stories are more interesting. there is something to walking in world, being able to not just relate, but to experience different ways of moving through the world, right? Whether, it's, as a woman or as a, Falastiniyye (Palestinian) or as a queer person, I think there's something, that I'm very thankful for, to be able to relate and experience so many different types of ways of moving through the world, and that makes my empathy even grow more to other experiences that are not my own. So, I think that's really important as a storyteller. The, the point is to show, stories and characters and journeys and experiences, that people don't usually see, or that people don't usually connect with. And that is, is something that I wouldn't be able to get if I wasn't, as you say, like a triple minority. So

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Beautiful. Yeah. What would you say to those who would argue that the only reason you're able to tell these stories, which tackle touchy Arab subjects is because you live in the US?

Rolla Selbak:

Look, I can't say that it is not, helpful, to be, in the US I cannot say that at all. Especially because, in Los Angeles specifically, there are a lot of resources, that I am afforded that I have a privilege, to access that other people even within the US cannot access and certainly around the world. So I would like to acknowledge that privilege a hundred percent, but I would also like to acknowledge the phenomenal artists in the Arab world, who I look up to. You know, like Nadine Labaki, um,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

yes.

Rolla Selbak:

Right. I mean, just that alone. Like, she's phenomenal. Like, and I'm just mentioning one person, there's so many. So yes, absolutely. I would like to acknowledge that, the privilege that I have, but I do not think that just because I'm here, that there are not artists in the Arab world and around the world, that are doing just work that I aspire to, that I look up to, and I hope to one day even hold a candle to the flame that that they are. Dr. Hani Chaabo: I know that you conversation is being had in the Arab world through your movies and just the way you tell your stories. Uh, I know many are looking up to you in the Arab world that want to get into filmmaking, and I love that you mentioned Nadine Labaki, because actually one of her most famous movies also tackles, the queer identity, even though it was made in Lebanon. I loved everything you said, and I agree like there is much openness and freedom in the Arab world, even if it's not in your face. Yes. And it does show in the way that artists express themselves, especially in film. Yes. So, let's explore some of your amazing films. The common thread that I found really, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is advocacy of representation and challenging stereotypes through storytelling. Why is that important to you? I would say that that's certainly a big aspect of my work. But the way that I like to kind of categorize it is, is I really like to tell stories that push boundaries, but that unite audiences at the same time. Hmm. That, that really is what I would like to do. And I hope to do that in my work. You know, whether that's through representation or characters or storylines you don't usually hear about, or something that makes you think or something that makes audiences who are watching it be like, oh, I never, I never thought I'd connect with someone like that, or a character like that, or, I didn't really understand and now I kind of, do you know what I mean? It's not about trying to convince anyone or trying to preach to anyone, but it is trying to, kind of express and show experiences. And you'd be surprised how many people connect with things they don't think that they would have ever connected with, when you present it in that way. I don't think anyone likes to be preached to, or kind of hit over the head with that stuff. Not even me. Like I don't enjoy it. I don't actually think it's,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

me neither.

Rolla Selbak:

And you feel it. Right? Right. You, you have this feeling

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

yes.

Rolla Selbak:

Humans are very sensitive. We're more sensitive than we give ourselves credit for. Like we understand when we are being preached to and we understand when we are simply being told a, a story that we are then invited to listen in on, and that's what I try to do,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

so beautiful and I definitely feel like in, in the stories you're sharing, it's about us being inspired through their journeys rather than us being told, this is how you must live. Yes. Or this is wrong, or this is right.

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And I definitely felt that. So thank you for sharing that. your second feature film was three veils, which you released in 2011, but that was kind of your debut into where you're at right now, and it's won many awards. It follows the story of three young Muslim women who, to the outside world appear to be typical young college students dealing with the challenges of growing up and finding their place, but they each have complicated brimming desires. Layla is engaged to be married, but has cold feet. Amira is a devout Muslim, repressing her lesbianism, and Nikki copes after a tragic death in her family with promiscuity. So how did that story come about?

Rolla Selbak:

I love this idea of these three characters who really seemingly have nothing to do with one another. But that each of them is going through you. You mentioned masks a little bit ago, and I think that's actually something that is probably a very, Theme in a lot of my work, right? So each of them has this, these masks because of these secrets that they have to hide about who they are or what they're going through and so, somehow their, their lives intertwine. There was these stories that I had from my own life, and from life of, friends, as well and, and people in my community. So I thought ambitiously, let me try and meld them all together in this like tabkha (dish), and see what comes out. And so that's how it came to be

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

What did it mean to you to tell these, these particular stories for these women?

Rolla Selbak:

I think they, they, each of them had this journey of realizing who they are and, in the end, coming into their own right. kind of like turning into butterflies in a way in their, each with their own journey. And I thought it was, you know, we don't, we don't all get to do that in our life, but If I showed the journeys of these three women and how they actually came into their own, like it might inspire and do keep in mind that I have no, no spoilers, but it's not like all of it is, is happy endings or anything the point isn't to be happy. the point is to be yourself and. That's actually even more important than happiness. I think so. Beautiful. Very inspirational. I definitely recognize these three stories also in my upbringing in the Arab world and in Arab communities that I see here. It's so important to be able to see the story, where it goes to completion, to authenticity, to coming into yourself so that it empowers us to do the same whether we are there or we are here. So Choke was the one you released in 2018. It is about a young Arab American woman who struggles with anxiety and OCD as she becomes a well celebrated MMA fighting champion, struggling to hide her refugee status from her small American town and the world. How did this one come about? So she's a Syrian refugee specifically.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Mm-hmm.

Rolla Selbak:

And I had this thought of, I wanted to do a film about identity, but I wanted to do it in reverse. So instead of someone who has their identity that they're proud of, that they, wanna come out about, what if they were ashamed of their identity? And so you see this very strong young woman, right? She's an MMA fighter. Like you can't get more physically strong than that, right?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Yeah.

Rolla Selbak:

She's a strong MMA fighter who, is hiding the fact that she's a Syria refugee because she can pass, she can pass as American, she can pass and her parents cannot, her parents, they have accents, her mothers hijabi, like all that stuff. So, I just found it a interesting subject to tackle. What if someone can pass, should they pass, uh, as uh, the privileged class, mm-hmm. Uh, yeah. So that's kind of my idea.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

One theme that you tackle is the mental health OCD and anxiety in this film. What insights can you share with us about specifically tackling mental health in that way?

Rolla Selbak:

I'll be honest, I don't have a lot of, official experience with, with mental health subjects. Obviously they're subject matter experts that are way more, way more versed than I am. But I can at least, express, what I think someone might be going through. I myself have experienced a lot of repression and repression can really, really mess you up in a lot of ways. And I think one of the ways is, it can come out as, someone being neurotic or having anxiety or something like that because there's something you are actually actively repressing every second, every minute of the day.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Rolla Selbak:

So if you are hiding who you are from your small town, if hiding, you know, her being a Syrian refugee, if she's hiding who she is in front of her, parents, as, as being a, having a girlfriend, being a lesbian, like she's hiding something from everyone. So there's no safe space for her. So I can only imagine, I mean, I myself, had a lot of feelings of repression that really, ended up messing me up in a lot of ways. Hamdullah (Thank God), I'm, much more at peace now, but, but yeah, especially when you're younger and, so yeah, so that's what I wanted to express, someone who's going through that.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Beautiful. I love that aspect of that film because I felt the same like that, that repression. All the way through my childhood. I grew up in Saudi Arabia and then I moved to Lebanon. So all that repression, even in medical school. Mm. when I was doing my internships, like it just, I was, I always had to wear that mask. And I myself have been medicated for anxiety and I've seen OCD tendencies within myself. And it wasn't until I took off that mask and was able to be myself, was able to practice that authenticity piece that, that for me was very important because, and what I tell my patients, so I'm a doctor in mental health, and what I tell my patients is that the antidote to to most mental health issues is being yourself, practicing authenticity..

Rolla Selbak:

Mm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And so I really, really enjoyed hearing you talk about that, especially in the context of her story.

Rolla Selbak:

Wow. Wow. That's very powerful. I love that. Yeah, I would've loved to have you when I was growing up as well.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Thank you so much. Thank you. So for our viewers, would you tell us how she eventually came into herself?

Rolla Selbak:

Feel free to watch the movie. it is, it is on Vimeo and it is,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

is it a spoiler if we do that?

Rolla Selbak:

Uh, maybe a little bit.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Okay. Yeah. Nevermind, nevermind. Watch, watch the movie. Watch the movie.

Rolla Selbak:

I'll say, I'll say that there is kind of a, I feel like a triumphant note at the end. So how about that? Like, you're not gonna be watching a depressing, a depressing movie. So

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

amazing. I love that. And your next movie was in 2021, which was Fenjan. This was a short film. Fenjan means cup of coffee, and it's about a young woman who lets a coffee cup reader decide her fate and what she'll do next. Which in the Arab world, I feel like all of us have had contact with a coffee cup being read on some level, whether it's our own mothers or their friends, or actually going to a fortune teller. So this really tickled me. How did this one come about?

Rolla Selbak:

That's exactly what you said. it started with, it's exactly what you said. I think a lot of us, whether we're, whether our culture is Arab culture and like you said, like, you grew up with like your mom's friends, like reading your cup or like all that fun stuff, or whether you're in other cultures. I think we're all looking for answers. it, there's some sort of, comfort or security in believing that someone else has the answers for you. Because it's easy to feel lost in this world, and so you have this this young woman who, is, is experiencing ghorbeh (feeling far from home), right? So she's away from her, her dad, who is in Palestine, she's in, in, UCLA. She just got into, med school, so on and so forth. But her ailing dad is in Palestine and, not doing very well. And so she's experiencing this ghorbeh(feeling far from home), right? So it's a very, Palestinian term, not just Palestinian term, I think arabic term, right, of being away from your Yes. Family. Yeah. Your root, your core, being outside of it. and so she's experiencing this, like, what do I do? Do I go back, to Palestine and be with him? and of course her dad would never want that. Her dad's like, you, you are, you need to. Excel and, and succeed and, and, and, you know, have a full life and don't worry about me. So it's this kind of push and pull. And so she decides to go to a fortune teller, and be like what should I do? What do I do? And so I'm not gonna tell you what happens next because that for sure is well

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

no spoilers, no spoilers

Rolla Selbak:

However, However yeah. I will say, that there is kind of a Nizar Qabbani, poem, that I included in the, um, in the movie, that really talks about your sense of place, your sense of home. In this world. and that's really what it's about. It's about, where is home?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Beautiful. That was gonna be my next question is what did you want us to walk away with after seeing fenjan? And the theme of home is so important, especially now when we're talking about forced displacement and ethnic cleansing. And for us who are living in the West as immigrants. Disconnected from our families and the communities that bring us joy and support us in all of this. Home is important to, to really feel connected to. yeah. Especially for Palestinians who are watching their homes go into non-existence. Really? Yeah. And so thank you for tackling that, that subject. So your your films tackle so many, topics that are touchy in the Arab world. I'm curious, how have you been received in your family?

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah, at the beginning, let's say, let's say. When Three Veils came out, right, like 2011, it was pretty tumultuous. the world was also different, as well. I mean, the world is changing. I'm not saying anything is. It's great or perfect or anything like that. But there are changes and, and, and I wanna acknowledge those changes because I used to get, death threats, even for fundraising, my movies. And now I don't get as many, if any. Um,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

so not as many. That's a good thing, I guess.

Rolla Selbak:

But yeah, I also do a good job locking people. I, I don't even, I don't even give, pay them any mind, ya3ny(i mean) I really, really don't. It's such a waste. I think when you're younger you feel, oh my gosh, I'm being personally attacked. You feel this, you feel that, and then as you grow up, you realize it's a complete waste of time and to just focus on people. On people who you wanna reach and people who are curious. that's the most important part. yeah, at the beginning it was, it was quite tumultuous. you know, I didn't maybe feel extremely, supported in some ways. But I think we all grow and, and I always leave room for people to grow. for them to grow on their own time, and they did and, and hamdulillah (thank God). I'm good. Like, it's, like I said, it's not perfect, but, in some ways it actually doesn't matter, in a weird way. Like, I feel like if I just focus my heart and my energy and, and who I give reverence to and who I am in service of. Mm-hmm. If I just focus on people who, also do that for me, then that's the most ya3ny (i mean), that's the privilege of a lifetime and those who are not and those who don't wanna come on the ride or whatever. I literally. Don't care. So if, for lack of a better answer phrase, I literally, I'm over it. So, and I think that comes with, with experience, right? Like, like we said, right when we were younger, maybe we, we were more hurt or more vulnerable or more sensitive. now we understand stand, what's a waste and, what's the value? So

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

We all, it's the common experience of us being queer, whether we're in the Arab world or here, that we have to go through the hater's gonna hate and the developing the thick skin and the anchoring in our sense of self-worth. And I love that you, your movies do that for us. It's really come out of a very personal journey that you've had to go through that. How have your films been received in the Arab world? I know you said you, you still get death threats. but let's focus on the people that you wanted to reach. What kind of feedback have you gotten from those people in the Arab world?

Rolla Selbak:

Honestly, I, I've gotten meaningful. extremely meaningful and it's the reason why I do this, and even, just as meaningful are the not, so there's two, there's two spheres of people that it means a lot to me. One of them is I saw myself, I connected, thank you for for me being up on, for me being able to see myself on screen, da, right? So that's one beautiful sphere. And then the other sphere is, wow I didn't think I'd ever connect with a character like this, or I didn't think I'd understand or I didn't think I would feel with someone. Who I thought I would never feel with. And that also means a tremendous amount to me. And, and that's really what I get mostly. And like I said, probably because I'm not afraid of the block button. I'm not interested. I never engage online. And like I said, unless someone's curious, if someone's really genuinely asking questions or really doesn't know, curious is very important, right? Because. They're not, aggressively, violently staunch in their, in their ways. But they also don't know enough about, other experiences to know how they feel about it. So I'm happy to. To engage with anyone curious, but haters block immediately,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

That's all that matters. I actually ran, some ads to promote the episodes, on Facebook and Instagram, and the comments are just absolutely atrocious. Racist comments, hateful. Misinformation, propaganda. And in the beginning as I was reading all this, I'm like, this is a labor of love. I don't wanna see all these comments. And then at some point, I was like, okay, well I'm gonna focus on the likes that are coming on these videos. And you're absolutely right. Like we, we all have to learn to just block, delete, block, delete, moving on, block, delete.

Rolla Selbak:

Yes a 100% because look, im asking you Hani inta sou2al (you, a question), Have you ever been able to change anyone's mind arguing with them online?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

No.

Rolla Selbak:

No. That's it. That's the only data point you need. And for me that's, I see it like there's no if, ands or buts. So, so that's why I always say I'm open to the curious, but never for the. Haters. So it literally means zero.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

That's exactly why I feel you're a super humanizer. Not only do you feel for people who are in difficult situations and tell their stories, but you're also able to anchor in your humanity enough to be able to be the kryptonite to all this hate. Absolutely. Wonderful.

Rolla Selbak:

Thank you.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

so let's go a little bit into. a sad subject right now that we're all devastated and consumed with. We've all been destroyed by the horrific events. We're witnessing now why is this nightmare continuing to get worse? And there's no end in sight. It's so awful. how have you been affected?

Rolla Selbak:

I will start by saying, it almost doesn't matter how I've been affected, as compared to, and you know this, I'm not, I'm not saying anything you don't feel. but I do wanna vocalize it too out loud, which is, it doesn't actually matter how I feel compared to the Palestinians in Gaza And then also the Occupied Palestinians.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Mm-hmm.

Rolla Selbak:

But since you are asking Yeah. Occupied Palestinians. Exactly. since you're asking, yeah, I think like all of us, exactly what you said destroyed is, is for sure, a perfect term. Very destroyed. I think what we're all feeling, Is exactly again what you said, which is it seems never ending. It seems like there's no end in sight and that comes from a feeling of why is no one stopping this on one hand, we're very used to the imperial powers. Attacking oppressed people, taking lands, doing what they want. Right. We're used to it, so it's not a shock to us. Yes, absolutely. A genocide like this has never been quote unquote televised as it has and as documented as it has. And certainly this is the worst atrocities that Palestinians have seen since the Nakba. That's without a doubt.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Yes.

Rolla Selbak:

But we are not shocked. It's not a shock. The shock comes with why is no one stopping this? That's the shock. We expect it from Israel. We expect it from America and the UK and maybe Western Europe in some ways.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Mm-hmm.

Rolla Selbak:

But the rest of the world.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Yeah.

Rolla Selbak:

What?

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Yeah.

Rolla Selbak:

What is happening? So that is where we are. that's the biggest shock. And that's, and that goes along with the gaslighting, right? the gaslighting. You're not seeing what you're seeing. it's not happening. nothing to see here. It's like, what are you talking about? And you, you marry that with just how violent and aggressive and inhumane and. Destructive. This has been, the gas lighting feels even, even more insidious. And it's enough to make you, and you, you're in mental health, right? It's enough to make you truly question your sanity, truly. It really has been quite awful. But, but I think that's where social media has come in and that's what has been connecting all of us.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Mm-hmm.

Rolla Selbak:

And I feel like first and foremost, what it has done is made us ask each other, forgive me for this term, right, especially the men mental health expert. But like, Am I crazy? Is this nuts? And then

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I felt, felt that too. Yeah.

Rolla Selbak:

And then, so for others to validate, no, you're not crazy. I, I'm seeing this too. Are you seeing that? I'm seeing. And so you start, collectively coming together. Like, wait a minute, we know what's happening, don't tell us what's not happening. And that's grown and grown and grown and, and like you said, like bringing in, to light, so many other important, atrocities. Happening in the world. And so, but yeah, that's kind of where, where I'm at mentally at this point.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Me too. I've really questioned my sanity in the last three months. I found myself for the first time in, in my career. I've been practicing medicine for about eight years now, and

Rolla Selbak:

mm-hmm

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I found myself for the first time being comforted by my patients instead of me being comfort.

Rolla Selbak:

That's so profound.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And, it's, it's beautiful that a lot of them are curious and want to know, and when they learn about it, they're angry and they want to be involved and

Rolla Selbak:

mm-hmm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

That's been helpful to me, to feel like people care and want to do something about it. But I myself have had to restart my antidepressant because I was just so consumed.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And not able to regulate that. And I had to use my own tools to help myself navigate all of this.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And then, starting this podcast has also been helpful, so trying to do everything I can.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

To help. Instead of just sit and simmer in what I'm feeling.

Rolla Selbak:

Yes.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And I know you've been doing the same. That's how I found you. your profile is full of activism and what people can do, and one really powerful video was your message to other filmmakers and storytellers. So would you mind saying that message on here so that people can hear it?

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah, certainly. I've been in the studio system for a few years now, so I moved from independent film to the studio system for a few years now, I have some insight into how projects get green lit, how projects are made, what projects are made, and what I was saying. Is that right now, Hollywood, and I'll say Hollywood, but I'm not talking about independent film, right? I'm talking about studio system, Hollywood system. I call it corporate. the corporate system. Essentially, the types of projects that are being circulated are so. Ignorant mm-hmm. Are so harmful. To, to Palestinians, to Arabs, to Muslims, to brown people in general. Quote unquote people with beards. it's, it's, it's really, really awful. And so what I was saying is that, keep your eye out 'cause these projects are being greenlit, There's gonna be this whole swell, and I was saying that because it takes, a year or two to make TV shows and movies. So saying, keeping an eye out, for the next year or two, just the swell. Of, movies and TV shows that are gonna vilify who they wanna vilify. Put up as virtuous who they wanna put up as virtuous, amplify voices that they wanna amplify. and that it was a call to all artists, filmmakers, writers, directors, even musicians. To write the stories that they wanna write, make the movies that they wanna make. I myself am going back into independent film as well, because that's where you truly are able to speak your voice and your truth. And, we need something to counteract what's, what is happening and what's about to happen, in Hollywood. So that was my message.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

You yourself are now taking your activism even deeper and really standing up against this vehemoth machine that manipulates the narrative, however, is politically convenient with ulterior motives.

Rolla Selbak:

Yes.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And unfortunately, if people like you don't step up and tell more stories about our truths and who we are, we are going to be painted in a negative light again, which has already happened to us, especially since nine 11.

Rolla Selbak:

Yes.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

And it's so important for us to do everything we can to humanize, arabs and brown people and anybody who's really minoritized

Rolla Selbak:

Yes. Anybody exactly.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

For us to be part of the people that are being defended, just like we're standing up for black rights right now in America. You know, it's, that also means our rights and we should all be contributing to that. So thank you so much for that powerful message. Rolla, you're not just sending a message to others to do more. You've also been so busy yourself practicing what you preach more than anyone. Since October 7th, you've become increasingly vocal about Palestinian rights, appearing on podcasts and creating educational content on social media. You've talked about how Netanyahu himself said that the battlefield is now on social media and how the purchase of TikTok would help address problems with a Zionist narrative, which unfortunately they've been successful in doing that. You've also faced professional consequences. CAA dropped you as a client. You've been offered countless projects over the years to quote unquote humanize Palestinian terrorists or write the Wives and Sisters of terrorists. Roles you've consistently turned down, but now you're working on "The Visitor", a Palestinian folk horror film about a young man in Jerusalem who must save his family from a "Ghouleh", a female demon from his Grandmother's folktales. The film is produced by Watermelon Pics and stars, prominent journalist, Ahmed Shehab El-Din and Gazan journalist who escaped the genocide Plestia Al-Aqad. You've said the film is about erasure and the deep human need to be seen and that living under occupation can be scarier than the monsters in our folk tales. How does it feel to finally be telling a Palestinian story on your own terms? And what do you hope this film will show the world about Palestinian culture and experience?

Rolla Selbak:

How does it feel? I feel very humbled and proud to be working with such Falastini (Palestinian) talent telling our own stories. I feel so, so humbled and proud about it. You mentioned me being dropped by CAA, I want to say that wasn't a small thing for me, meaning. In general, like as a kid, I had always dreamed about being part of the Hollywood studio system. And so, rising up in the ranks in indie filmmaking and then finally getting signed to CAA in 2018, it was a big deal to me because it meant like, oh, I was achieving the dreams. The, these filmmaking dreams that I had is like, I am finally part of Hollywood. Right. Then and at the time, like you mentioned, like at the time being Falastiniyye(Palestinian), 'cause I was always like very mish bas (not just) open about who I was, but very proud. But at the time, like you mentioned I started realizing that I was a token, so they only want fini voices or filmmakers, whatever, if you are a token to them. So they can either parade you around or some sort of diversity box, or they have already stories that they have put in place that they want you to come and validate. To your point, masalan (for example), I remember like my agents called me up and they said, oh. We have this project and they're looking specifically for a Falastini (Palestinian) writer. You wanna come on board? So I was so excited and I, I said, wow, who is, what, what, what story is this? This sounds amazing. And Hollywood, Palestinian story. They're like, oh, and then just come to find, it's not a Palestinian story at all. It's a Israeli filmmaker who was making

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Oh my God.

Rolla Selbak:

Israeli story about this sort of double agent who was like Israeli civilian by day and like some sort of like infiltrator by night. And I was gonna be coming on board as a writer to "humanize" the terrorists and then the wife of the terrorists as well, and then the sister of the terrorist as well. And so it like, quite literally was that. And so I declined it. Yeah. And so I declined it.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Thank you for doing that.

Rolla Selbak:

dude, shoo. Thank you. Ah, my gosh. Like, imagine. Imagine I couldn't sleep at night. Imagine doing that to your own people. I don't know. I know some people do. And I would like to say, Hey, no shade to them, but full shade to them. shade and shame.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Of course. Shame with three bells. Shame, shame, shame. How?

Rolla Selbak:

It's shameful. And you're just like, enslaved by this system that just wants to use you for, anyway, my whole point is to say that even when I came into Hollywood and I realized I was a token, I'm like, huh, yemken(maybe) Okay, I'm getting these things. I'm gonna reject them, but maybe I can write my own stories and my own things. And maybe then they will, and then of course I started speaking up about the genocide because how could you not? Then they dropped me and it was the biggest gift in the world to me because something that I thought I wanted, I thought this was my dream. I thought this was the pinnacle. I thought this means you are validated as a filmmaker. You're in the same agency as Tom Cruise and whoever else, like you've made it. And then come to find out that it's all just vapor, it's all smoke and mirrors. It doesn't, it's meaningless. Meaningless. So, my only regret, as I like to say, is that I didn't call them up and drop them first. I should have done that. I should have done that, but I didn't. But every week I would like joke with my, like, family and friends. I'd be like, oh, it's they CAA still hasn't called to drop me. I wonder what's gonna happen.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I'm so sorry that happened to you. You know that absolutely sucks. It's wrong. On one hand, you worked so hard to even be in that agency and really in that space and then on the other hand, you've become larger than them. You've become larger than that, and your humanity, your message, your mission is larger than that space. And you're a free woman and you're a free filmmaker, and here you are using your talent and your awesomeness and the reason you were even in that agency, you're using it without limits. On this new film and a horror film of all things. You know, When I think about people making films about Palestine, I think like, make films about the occupation, make films about 1948, make educational films, show what's happening there, but a horror film that's so special. How did you even get there?

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah, I love that question. So, so what I was trying to do, and by the way, I wrote this I dried the ink on it at the top of January, 2023. So I wrote this even before the genocide. And it's by, like you mentioned, it's set in Jerusalem. So my whole mom's side of the family is from Jerusalem. My whole dad's side is from Shefa-Amer. So anyway, so, so it was like basically based on, obviously what we've been seeing in, in Al-Quds(Jerusalem) and everything going on. The world started understanding when they saw Sheikh Jarrah, right. So I'm like, okay, the world's starting to understand. And then what really inspired me actually was two films. One of them was Get Out, Jordan Peels Get Out, and the other one was the film Parasite. So I was thinking like, first of all, this is horrific. It's an actual horror that is happening in front of our eyes. And I want, by the way, I want audiences to be very clear. This is not trauma porn. This is not body horror and limbs and blood. This is not that This is. Sinister, more creepy, more very similar to like get out, very similar to parasite in the sense that it's a movie about something much deeper, but it is very compelling and it is scary. So, so yeah. So, so anyway, so it was set in, it's set in a and I wrote it January, 2023. I was inspired by Get Out because I myself am not a horror movie fan, but I remember what Get Out did. It brought people in to the universal experience of fear. Experiencing fear and the fear of someone else or the fear of something else. And so it's a very universal feeling, this feeling of fear and for you to be able to process that fear and go through that fear, while just sitting down watching a film.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

mmm,

Rolla Selbak:

And I loved what Get Out did to, to really show the deep seated sinister, white supremacy in America, essentially. But of course when you watch the movie, you don't think, you think, oh, it's about a guy, his white girlfriend takes him to his family. His family turns out to be like, psychos. So on the surface it's just a, an amazing horror film on its own. And deeper, just like, oh my God. It shows the darkness of what this country and the United States was built on. Parasite was similar, right? Similar in the sense that it takes the horror genre, but it's talking about the complete violence that it, that is enacted upon a society when you have the 0.1% owning all the wealth. all the rest of us, right. Trying to make it, it's violence on us. Mm. But of course you watch the movie and it's about the, these two, this family who tries to calm this rich family and then, they found this whole family in the basement that like, it doesn't, yeah. It's a compelling. Horror movie or social thriller, let's say on

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

yes.

Rolla Selbak:

And the last thing I'll say is the thing about parasite is that it was all in Korean. A complete foreign language film that won the best picture at Oscars. Not just best inter right, not just best inter,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Oh yeah. Oh

Rolla Selbak:

not just best international film. Just best film flat out. So with those two films, it signaled to me that the audience is ready for something compelling, for something entertaining as heck. For something bold for something that says the thing that's not just dancing around and two sides and nuance, oh, we have to have this character be good and nice, and this character be, la2 khalas (no enough). It's just a bold, compelling, entertaining as hell film that's also talking about something very deep about the human condition. And that's really what the, and it's in Arabic so

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

It's in Arabic. Wow.

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah. that's why parasite inspired me because I'm like, dude if the world can, the world's ready, the world's just ready for all. You know what doesn't need to be English, And it needs to be authentic. It can't just be for specific audience. It just has to be what it is. So, and Inshallah (God willing), that's the vision of The Visitor. I will say the thing about the Ghouleh, so each village in Falastin (Palestine) has its own kind of folk monster,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

huh?

Rolla Selbak:

So has the Ghouleh that, right? Yes.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I didn't know that.

Rolla Selbak:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And you can imagine, and it's of course even pre-Islamic, like you can imagine in a place that's already so. So spiritually, like there's something about that land, which is why, we all find it very sacred. And even if you're not religious, there's something so sacred and beloved and precious about that part of the earth. And so you can, and so there's lots of, folk tales, like even pre-Islamic that are around the Falastini villages. This Ghouleh lives in the well if you go to her and you give her a ring, she'll do this for you. Or this Ghouleh is a good one. This Ghouleh is a bad, but this one, this one's mischievous, this one, you know, so each one has its own kind of character. So this Ghouleh in the visitor one, look at her, they say one look at her will erase the memories all from your mind. So one, look at her and you'll forget everything.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Wow

Rolla Selbak:

And that could be a bad thing. That could be a good thing so there's a lot to it but it is in essence about the horror of erasure. So.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Oh my goodness. Wow. That blew my mind. I loved hearing you reflect on how it came together from like what was the source of the inspiration, and of course like bringing in this heritage of Palestinian, almost like ridiculousity, which really exists all over the Arab world. Even me growing up, just like with your movie finjan, with like looking at the coffee cup, right? This is another thing that we all grew up with where my mom's like"byeklak el ghoul", the ghoul will eat you, the monster will eat you. All of us grew up with some form of this folkloric horror. That you've turned into storytelling here. And of course, brought together the faces, two big faces of Palestinian excellence and bravery and courage and and watermelon pictures of course

Rolla Selbak:

Yes, of course. Big shout out. Big shout out. Yes.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Yeah, so we actually got to interview both Watermelon Pics, president Hamza Ali amazing human being, and of course, the amazing journalist, Ahmed Chehab El-Din. So for our listeners, check out those episodes. Really important work, and it brings me great joy and pride to see all you mammoth humans collaborate with each other for the greater good of humanity and not just Middle East, but humanity in general because you're doing so much out there. And in 2024, you founded the Safina Filmmaker Project, which provides free mentorship to Palestinian filmmakers around the world. The name Safina means ship in Arabic, like a vessel carrying people to new shores, you're literally training the next generation of Palestinian storytellers. What do you hope this new generation of filmmakers will be able to accomplish that maybe wasn't possible for you and your generation?

Rolla Selbak:

Like I mentioned, my dream was to be in Hollywood, right? Oh, I'm in Hollywood. Why? Because I thought, oh, this way we can tell stories that we wanna tell whether Falastini (Palestinian) stories, whether or not whatever, right? It's like, oh, I wanna tell my story because you wanna be seen. Right. And so what I want to really impart on not just for the Falastini (Palestinian) filmmakers, but anyone who is looking to get into filmmaking or has a story and wants to tell you don't need Hollywood to tell story what Hollywood like, there's no, it's unnecessary. It's an un. Not only is it un an unnecessary part of the whole global kind of venture of storytelling, it's actually dangerous. Toxic and insidious, and it's not to be trusted with your story. So what I wanna do is I wanna take everything I've learned from the studio system the real craft of filmmaking, of writing, of directing,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

um.

Rolla Selbak:

and I wanna take that. And as I say, I wanna liberate that knowledge.'cause that knowledge is usually gate kept right behind a gate. How do I,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

you know,

Rolla Selbak:

write a script? What happens after I write a script? How do I, what does even a producer do? Like what, what do these people on the crew do? How am I supposed to, get my films out afterwards? What's a distributor? How much should they take? Like all this type of knowledge that I've learned in the Hollywood system is gate kept behind the gate. And I just wanna liberate it. I'm like, look, here's all the tools you need. You have your stories go forth and tell the stories because that's what the world needs. It doesn't need someone gatekeeping a story deciding what story's worthy, what's not worthy. So that's really the precipice behind it. So not just, like I said we have specific programs for Falastini(Palestinian) filmmakers specifically. Like example we launched our our fellowship year, where they literally like. Five filmmakers, literally got both funds as well as mentorship, like direct mentorship to make their films and stuff. But all of our workshops are free for anyone. So our workshops are free for anyone around the world. We try to make it in a time zone that covers almost all the world. The only one that gets a little shafted a little bit is unfortunately Australia. Australia and a

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Of course. Oh my God

Rolla Selbak:

But, But I know I'm so sad

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

But we love them. We love them even though their the opposite side of the world of us, but we love them and we want them in our circles, yes..

Rolla Selbak:

know, I just like, just put an alarm on. I swear be worth it.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Can people see the recording somewhere?

Rolla Selbak:

No they can't and why is that? I've been, yeah, I've been asked that a lot by the way, like, oh,

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

you know what I mean?

Rolla Selbak:

because the point isn't to make content and the point isn't just to disseminate information. The point is to be in community other. And to have moments with each other. It isn't just, hey, it isn't a passive act. The act of working on your craft shouldn't be passive. It should be communal, and it should be very active.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Um,

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah. So that's really the idea behind why we should all be together, learning from each other. Talking to each other. And then after the workshop, commiserating with even the people who are at the workshop, that's not me, for instance, talking to each other, Hey, oh, I have a film idea. Would you be interested in reading it, giving me feedback, and then doing the other way around actors who are trying to work on their reels, find editors, like, so it's really meant to be a community and not just a one way street of here's information, go and passively watch it. You know what I mean? Without any support, without any community.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Beautiful. So important. It's the way we're going to reclaim the narrative. It's the way we're going to paint our own picture and spread that to the world. And community is so important on so many levels, whether it's in filmmaking and crafting and art or mental health, and just basic humanity and there's nothing more important than finding your people and reflecting off of them learning from each other. And thank you so much for creating that circle of people that can do that with you. You in particular with all your talents and gifts and the knowledge you know, It's going to pave the way for people to get there quicker. I know like for you, and you told us at the beginning of this episode how it started for you and it was a rocky ride and here you are not wanting that same experience for others by creating this avenue so thank you so much for that. How would people be able to apply for this or find Safina?

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah, no, no application necessary at all. Either follow us Instagram Safina Filmmaker project, or go to www dot safina filmmaker project.com. Um, yeah, not necessarily. so we announce we go seasonally. So we should be announcing our next kind of slate of free workshops like for January to March. And. I just wanna give a huge shout out to every single mentor who's come on board, shared their craft with people. We we've people from previous Disney animators, you know, do a workshop in animation. We've had people who, you know, Sundance winners of documentary filmmaking. Tell us about, how to start, making documentaries. What are the steps to think about, we've had people teach us how to pitch in a room to producers, investors, so on and so forth. We've had, like, it literally runs the gamut. And so I just wanna take this second, just to say thank you to every single person who has come and help us mentor and be mentors to this community. And they do it by the way, voluntarily. They do it completely voluntarily. They volunteer their time , and it means the world to me, and I know it means the world to us, as a community of independent filmmakers. So big shout out to the Safina filmmaker mentors.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Such a gift. A gift to all of us. we are almost at the end of our time together. I don't like endings, by the way. I don't like them. Yeah. But to wrap up our time together, would you share with us a notable post poem or piece of writing that helped you navigate all this or a stress management practice that's been helpful?

Rolla Selbak:

I'll be honest with you, that's you. I knew that you were gonna ask that question and I am, 0% prepared. Um, So I'll say, um, and, and the reason why I feel overwhelmed is because there have been so much, in fact, in fact. messages through social media, which is the main way that I'm connecting with people like you. Mm-hmm. And people around the world. Mm-hmm. Ha has been, it's gonna sound very, very counterintuitive. But it has been my saving grace. It's, it's been. The place where I go to, to, to, like we said, it's am I going crazy? It's like, no, you're not. We are all feeling the same thing. We're seeing the same thing. And then secondly, lifting each other up, educating each other, keeping each other vigilant. Hey, I, I, I saw this piece of information is not cross-referencing this, holding each other accountable, making sure we're, we're really getting the clean, information. That we can then use, and to empower us. So, so to be honest, I can't think of just one, one post, but it has been, it has been my saving grace and it has been the thing that I go to in order to feel solidarity, to feel, hopeful to be honest with you.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

So it sounds like your, your stress management practice has really been activism and, and worldwide community. And connecting, which is really beautiful.

Rolla Selbak:

Yes.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I have, one post for you to share.

Rolla Selbak:

Yeah. Oh, see, you're prepared. Ana fashleh (I'm a failure)

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

(abadan mesh feshleh) You're not a failure, you're an inspiration and a mentor to so many of us. So this one was, I've act, I actually heard this one, while Interstellar was being played in the background, and it says, don't be afraid to say what you want to say. Create what you want to create. They got us out thinking that art is just expression. It's a product that can be copy and pasted on an assembly line. That's not what art is. Art by definition is a unique expression. A copy of something great doesn't make it great, just a commodity. Art is being bought and sold by people who've never created anything in their life. People can tell the difference. By the time this is all done, people will be hungry for something real. So keep creating your art. Don't be afraid. Don't let them make you afraid to create. Who's that one from?

Rolla Selbak:

You got me blushing.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Oh, yes. That's, that was so beautiful. Thank you for making that. So for our audience, you were playing interstellar in the background and your voice was narrating what I just read. So beautiful and inspirational and the comments really. Just pure love in the comments.

Rolla Selbak:

Thank you. Habibi. It means a lot to me. All the Thank you.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

Thank you.

Rolla Selbak:

This was such an honor and pleasure and so many will learn from everything you've said today. I certainly learned. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you. And thank you for having me on and for this beautiful, uplifting, helpful platform that means a lot to me, so thank you.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

I'm gonna end our time together with a little prayer. Is that okay with you?

Rolla Selbak:

Yes, for sure. Please.

Dr. Hani Chaabo:

May all beings everywhere thrive in peace and dignity and share in all our joys. And may we see true peace in the Middle East for all in our lifetime. Hey, super Humanizer, it's Katie Bogen here. Before you go, I have a quick ask. If today's conversation moved you, would you please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Pod chaser. Both links are in the show notes and your reviews really help us to reach more people who need to hear these stories. If you found this episode valuable, please share it with a friend, a loved one, or anyone who you think would benefit from it. Your reviews and sharing help us inspire more humanity in our world. Thank you for being a friend of Super Humanizer. See you next episode..