EP. 50: Happy New Year ! Coyotes and Precision Shooting !

On the 50th episode of Game Seekers!, Shawn and Dave discuss what's going on this time of year for Game Seekers, as well as some precision rifle topics.  Tune in for a great episode to start 2026!  Happy Game Seeking ! 

Thanks for listening ! Please like and share ! Thank you all for being Game Seekers !

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Welcome back. Welcome, welcome. Welcome back to another Game Seekers podcast. First one in a while. We took a first one of 2026, isn't it? First one of 2020. Hey, happy new year. Yeah, happy new year. It's February now. February 1st, yep. We took a whole month off, really. The last one was the day before Christmas Eve. December 23rd was the last one that we put out. And since then, we've finished up the holidays, which for our family is pretty big. And you know, Papa had a birthday and a couple other things. You know, just cherishing family time and getting back in the work grind. Usually by the end of the year, all the vacations burned up after hunting season, and then you gotta go back to work. And Luke is traveling the country. And he's working, but he's doing a bunch of game seeking stuff along the way. Going to he went and stopped at like a sniper training school and made a video out of that. So go check that out on the GameSeekers YouTube channel. Um then what else have we been doing? We've been hunting some coyotes. Hunting some coyotes. We've only made it out, I think the few times that I went with you is really the only time that I really went besides uh a couple day stands. Been trying it the daytime with a shotgun. And been dry. Been doing a couple dry stands, so not too productive. I don't think I've even shot a coyote yet this year. My last one was uh uh Christmas Eve. Early wee hours of Christmas Eve morning. I had a coyote that I shot, and that was that was it. Yeah. Couple haircuts, a couple haircuts when uh we did our little first outing there. We were pretty rusty. We got out of the truck and had a bunch of coyotes howling when we first got out of the truck, made a little move on them, tried calling them. They weren't really committing to where we were. We had a couple obstacles in the way, did a little bit of moving around, and I uh gave one a haircut that night. And then 22 arc strikes again. 22 arc strikes again. Yep. And boy, man, I would not be a good 22 arc salesman that day. I was oh I was bashing the 22 arc before we even knew what happened. At first, I thought I hit the coyote really good, um, and we kind of set that up so we would be the wee hours of the morning, so we would catch the sunrise, so we hit a couple other stands after we decided we were gonna give it a minute because it ran out of the field and tried a couple other spots and then came back when the sun came up, and upon further review, we realized it was not a not a mortally wounded animal, it was just a haircut. Um but before that, when the thing ran out of the field, man, it was like non-stop. I was just bashing the arc. Yeah. Which I which I should know better. It was really the shooter on that one, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

And then there's something about that gun, though. It's just yeah, so there's juju.

SPEAKER_04 4:24

Right. And and like we were talking earlier, our buddy Connor, he he's borrowing the rifle right now, and he's getting into the thermal game, and I put uh the thermal that I let you start with, got that back from you, threw it on the arc, got it sighted in, gave it to him, and he shot one right off the bat, and dropped it, stoned it. So I think it was like I was telling you, I've never sold a rifle before, but he had a little interest in buying it, and like Lexi told me, you know, sometimes like the energy, it might just be his gun. Because everybody that shoots them loves them, and I've killed 11 coyotes with that gun, but I just ugh, there's something about so like after that one, I went out on my own, I did two stands, and then ended up doing a spot and stock on one and did the same thing. I gave it a haircut and the thing jammed on me, which it does it hasn't done terribly much, but I put a new mag in it, one of those flush fit mags, and I don't know what's going on with that mag, but there's like on the rider part of the mag, there's like this little they almost put like this little stopper so the the shell can't slide backwards off the mag, so it like stops. But they left like a sharp jut on that stopper so when the bolt face rides back, it hits that and it hits it enough where enough of the the bolt face will pop the shell out of the mag but stop on the rider. So you got a loose shell on the chamber, and then you can't then when you go to feed it again, it pops the next one out.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Right now you got two rattling around in there.

SPEAKER_04 6:21

Yeah, and that coyote I had plenty of time to try to get some follow-up shots, because I hit him low, I know I hit him low. He did a little spin, and I obviously had the malfunction cycling it. And dude, I almost just took that gun, and if there wasn't a six thousand dollar scope on it, I would have just put it in the snow and then just like built up the snow over it and just walked away. I was so mad. So mad. I could have left that thing right out there, but lucky for that rifle, it was now we did we did have a little blood on that deal, but we were thinking maybe it was you know bullets. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

You know, there was something weird going on, but when you look back at the thermal footage, it definitely looks like you were a little bit left.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

So that's right.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

So like I started running my mouth before we watched the video back, which Right, it's never your fault until it's literally you know, um Dylan, you know, my cousin, obviously, me and you have been talking about it. You know, he actually borrowed that um that first ATN that you bought, and uh, you know, he when we went coyote hunting the other couple weeks ago, you know, we were using that as like a a uh just like a scanner. Yeah. So he's like, man, this is really cool, you know. And so finally he's uh he's like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm gonna get a scope. So we ended up getting him, you know, uh the uh ATN, just basically the same um same thing, but the newer version, I guess, you know, the newer generation that records and this and that. But I told him one of the things I told him was the nicest thing, I mean you don't really think about like, geez, I don't really need to record this, but you're gonna miss. And it's really nice to be able to record, and then if you do miss, you can play it back and be like, oh, that's you know, I pulled it, or you know, this is what happened, because it it doesn't lie. When you record it, you can see right, you know, you can see everything.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

So I would say that I get I'm I'm very passionate about not wounding game in the first place. That's not my goal. My goal is never to hurt anything, it's to put it out like instantly. Right. So if the thing about this arc, I killed 11 coyotes with it, but I probably had another dozen that I had some sort of hit and run, and I was I would always like I get so wound up in the moment that before I play it back, and I feel so good about being on them that I just it you don't think about like I was I was on them, like I wouldn't squeeze the trigger if I didn't think I wasn't solid on them, and all those mishaps that I had the scope told the truth, and I had to swallow that pill instead because I've been bashing this 22 arc and just saying it's not enough, you know, I I feel like I hit it really good, I still got a runner. But if you look at all the ones that I I killed, the like the 11 that I killed, minus one or two that ran that had to follow up, but like all those ones, that bullet had no problem putting it down. So that's not a cartridge issue. So all my all my you know complaining and whining about it before I actually look back at the recording, you know, it it's not telling the truth. You know, it's it's not the cartridge, it's the shooter. I though all the mishaps I have, but I'm also a big believer in good energy, in like superstitious, and like and I do believe some sometimes things are just a lemon. And I've just been I've been wanting it to work so badly because I actually like that rifle. It's a Ruger American Gen 2, and it's got the short little barrel for nice when you have a suppressor on it, it's light to carry, you know, the stock, every I love everything about that. It's a cold hammer forged barrel, so it's extremely accurate when I'm shooting it on a bench. And I just I'm forcing it to try to work, but in my hands, I think that gun's just a lemon. I mean, I had a 22-250 Savage 110 in their predator version, and I don't think I've ever had a coyote get away from me. You know what I mean? It's kind of like the it's just a lemon for me. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

But I Yeah, no, that happens for sure. I mean, there's just bad juju, man. Yeah, Connor Connor takes it, and the first night that he uses it, smokes one.

SPEAKER_04 11:24

Drops it, flattens it. So I think I'm just trying to force it too much with that rifle, so I'm in the market now for a different one just to get you know, I I bought my brother a muzzle odor years ago for Christmas, right? I actually started making some money. Um, so I wanted to do something nice for my brother, and I buy this muzzle odor for him. And right, he was like over the moon about this muzzle odor. Like he's like he like he was like, you know, he shows up Christmas time, whatever, just hanging out. I was like, Yeah, yeah, I got you something. He pulls out a muzzle odor. He was like when he left, he was like, I'm gonna kill more deer with that gun. You know, my brother bought me this gun, it's just gonna be something super special. And he took it out, had a mishap on a really beautiful boky tract, then he hit another one in Maine, and then he sold it. He was like, Nope, it's just I I love you, dude. Thank you so much. Uh means everything. And you know what I told him? Get rid of it. I was like, pfft, don't uh because I know I'm like I'm that superstitious. My 760, 30 odd sex when I'm tracking a deer, man, that thing could be like motoring away from me 250 yards through the woods, and I just pull up and bang, and the thing will drop. Like there's just some guns that just like they're they're meant to be. It's I think that rifle's meant to be Connors.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Really, it needs to be an extension of your arm or else.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

Yeah, it really does. You know. So uh game seeker-wise, coyote hunting, right? Well, we are up to four. And why don't we talk about that? Because for game seekers, the start of 2026, this might be your year. Yeah, all four coyotes. Yeah, good start, off to a good start. So all the coyotes that Team GameSeeker has under their belt is thanks to Davy. Yeah, what's up, buddy?

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Yeah, finally, finally contributing here.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

Yeah, why don't we uh get started? Why don't you just tell them about the gun you belt? I think you talked about it a little bit, but just give them an idea about your setup and just talk about some of these hunts because I know one of them was pestering you for a while.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Yeah, so um you know I've had uh some coyotes around the you know, around my property. You know, they're always around, I guess, but um seems like in the winter time, you know, they they're around more. So anyways, you know, this is kind of the time of year we try to get after them. But um you know, a couple years ago Sean got me into the thermal game and uh I was using that ATN scope and this year I decided to upgrade and I ended up getting a um it's a Pulsar Thermion uh basically uh G2. Um it's a 640 scope, so it's quite an upgrade from the ATN. Um and I actually I had a Thompson Center Compass Compact that I bought from the local gun shop down here. And the whole reason for me buying that, it's a it's a 243 Winchester, which is probably besides my Ot 6 carbine pump gun, you know, 7600 is my favorite caliber um on the planet. It's just super versatile caliber, it's got really good ballistics, it's been around for a hundred years, and I've always had good luck with it in the past killing coyotes, you know, when we ran hounds with your brother. Um so, anyways, I picked this gun up, and really the reason I picked it up was it was a really good deal, and I was you know, I was gonna let my son use it when he's ready to hunt someday. And so when I got this new scope, I was like, man, I'd really like to build a gun, you know, just for coyote hunting. And um, you know, I'm looking around online and I mean you can spend some wicked dough um on some of these short-barreled, you know, carbon fiber barrels and you know, carbon fiber stocks, and this and that, like a really sweet rifle. And I'm like, you know, I'm not gonna be hiking through the mountains of Colorado with this thing. You know, I don't need a a uh you know 12 ounce carbon stock on this gun. Like I can do away with a lot of these things and cut the price down of building a rifle. And then I got thinking, I'm like, I I've got that 243, why don't I just put it to use and we'll see what we can do? It's my favorite caliber, you know, and it's perfect coyote uh predator cali you know caliber. And uh so so I started doing some digging around online, and my my goal was basically to find a uh uh a different stock because the the stock that came with those um guns was they're they're kind of garbage, you know, very generic um uh laminate. I guess it's not really laminate, uh I don't know what you call it, plastic, plastic, you know, yeah, synthetic, I guess. Yeah, so you know it's not carbon fiber, it's synthetic plastic, you know, very cheap. It it's like you it torques in your hand, you know, kind of just a crappy feeling thing. So I've I got digging around and I found a company out of uh Canada called MDT, and they're pretty well known uh for building precision rifle stocks and chassis. So I got digging around. They were the only company I found that made a drop-in uh chassis for a Thompson Center compass. Uh I'm like, well, it's meant to be. Uh so it was around Christmas time, they actually they were running deals and stuff like everybody does. So I ended up purchasing their Oryx uh chassis. It's a machined aluminum. So we're not saving any weight here. Um Sean's Sean's felt this gun. It's definitely it's definitely all there.

SPEAKER_04 18:00

Um keeps you steady though, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 18:03

It it's incredible, man. And so this chassis, you guys can check it out. You know, go to MDT, you know, it's mdttac.com. You can check out their stuff, but um this is you know it's it's it's like an AR kind of um style uh chassis, you know, it's got the pistol grip, it's you know, um it's just a super comfortable setup, but it is a little bit on the heavier side, but at the end of the day, boy, it really holds steady. And um we'll be putting a video together with some thermal um kills here probably in the next few weeks, but the four of them that are mine, you can you can really tell how how steady this gun holds.

SPEAKER_04 18:50

Yeah, so like for people wondering about how we hunt coyotes, we pretty much hunt them any way possible. So um we've run them with dogs. Um I have in the past trapped them. Um in I mean, driving down the road, see one mouse and out in the field, if you can get pulled off in a place that you can hunt, we'll put a little stock on them. Um going through your yard, we'll shoot them. Bait piles, we shoot them. So uh in call, you know, calling at night time, we run, you know, tripods. So like weight for us when it comes to in in coyotes are anybody who hunts coyotes know that they're a really small, small target. You're like trying to hit like a little four-inch circle, really, is a kill spot on a coyote. Um and they they never stop moving really. So like we're we're shooting, like when we're when we're baiting coyotes, you know, we're camping out for them, and we usually got you know a pretty good, you know, I got a bag, you know, like even in the shanty metal, like you're sitting in a shanty, like we're we're camped out on the bait piles set up pretty nice. Um, and then when we're calling, we got them on tripods, and we're not like going 10 miles out in the woods. I mean, we're we're getting into some places that are you know not that far of walk. So I mean a weight, you know, it you what you gain with a heavier gun, which you you wouldn't like for like maybe tracking, is perfect if you're shooting off a bag, you know, off a bench, um, on a tripod. So like the weight actually helps your steadiness and accuracy. So anybody who's kind of wondering about like worrying, or anybody who's trying to get set up, don't worry about weight too much unless you're planning on tracking them. Which is probably like the only way we don't do it. I won't I won't follow a track, but yeah, you know, but like if you're if you're riding around with this thing and you got the back seat, and even though it's like swinging a hammer around, you know, big heavy gun, you're riding down the road and one of the farms got permission and there's one mouse out in the field, and you're probably only gonna get somewhere off the road, you know, where you're legal, get off the road and climb up on a hay bale and try getting it, you know what I mean? It's like coyotes are not like uh it's not like a deer hunt. It's you know, if I was running hounds, we usually pack nice light little 870 shotguns or something, but for for this style where we're baiting a lot, which all your kills are bait, right? Bait piles. So I mean so having a heavier gun steadies you, and you'll see that in Davy's videos, because he's he's like he's camped out in a sniper perch, right? Just waiting and waiting for these things to come in, and you know, booyah, there you go. Like you were one of those ones that you sent me, you were like flipping through like different color palettes. Yeah, yeah. And you were like setting your you're setting up your reticle.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah, yeah. So Luke, after so I've killed, I guess, so four four coyotes in five days in this last week. And crazy week. That's a good week. Yep. And um three males and one female. Um and just we'll throw a plug in there for uh oh what is Sarah's company she's got going on. Does she have a name for it yet? She does. She's got a Facebook page and everything. Fowler Brook Furs. Fowler Brook Furs? I think that's what she's called. I didn't know that. So Sarah, uh a friend of ours, Sarah Barker, super talented. She's she taught herself how to make fur garments. Garments. Habs. Super, super high quality. Like I asked her the other night because I ended up bringing her those coyotes. And uh and I said, uh, where did you learn how to do this? She said, Oh, I just taught myself. I'm like, well, this is incredible. You know, but check her out.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

So she's making her out.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Yeah, check it out. It's on she's on Facebook, Fowler Brook. Pretty sure. Let me just double check here. Hold on. Pretty sure it's called Fowler Brook Burge because her. And anybody who's right there.

SPEAKER_04 23:35

Yeah, anybody who who does check them out, like the price tags on a lot of these items are up there, but you have to understand the work that goes behind it. But you also have to Yeah, it's it's incredible. You're you're one, someone's spending the time to hunt these things, for one, and buying incredible amount of equipment to hunt these things, and then you have someone that takes the time to put the fur up, so they're skinning, fleshing, stretching, drying, sending to a tannery, which there's tannery cost, and you get them back. So by the time then somebody has to sit down and make a hat or a mitten or something, you know, she's obviously buying fur. So like the price on some of these, you look at them and you're like, oh gee, that's you know, it's up there, but just understand one, you're getting in the world the highest quality fabric to make any kind of cold weather garment possible, and that's fur. You cannot you cannot take that away from anything made with fur, right? There is such a thing as fake fur, but when you actually look into you know what it takes to make fake fur, you gotta open up a factory, you gotta pollute Mother Nature with that factory, burning diesel, burning everything it takes to heat the building. I mean, like when you look at the actual carbon footprint of a fake fur factory, there's nothing green about it. No, and then you throw the th like and then the thing gets stained or whatever, and you want to throw it out and get a new one, it sits in a landfill, and because it's made with petroleum products, it doesn't break down for hundreds of years. Where fur fur is organically made and grown, and then if you know there's no emissions into making it, just time, and then if something were to ever happen, let's say you lost your mittens, which I doubt you'd ever want to do, but if you lost your mittens or your fur hat and they would just go back to the planet, they break down naturally as if the thing just died out in the wild. It's pretty amazing. It is really an amazing thing. So, like I really hurt hope that fur makes a comeback, and I think it actually kind of is making a comeback because I think people are starting to realize that if you actually want to talk about green, then you have to go to Earth to find it, and that's it's right in front of your faces, right? And probably nabbing a chicken or a cat off your porch, so it's like win-win-win.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

Exactly. Yep, so Fowler Brook. So yeah, anyways, um Fowler Brook first, yeah. Check it out. Sarah Barker, great person, very talented. Um so yeah, those uh you know, our our coyote uh harvest will go to her and um it'll go to good use. And um, you know, check her out and you guys can uh get yourself a set of she's making mittens now that are really nice. It's pretty incredible. Um but uh yeah, so four dogs, five days, um that 243 man. So uh just kind of an OCD thing when I set this gun up. Of course, we're we have um I've got a Banish 30 uh suppressor on it. Um the we'll go into suppressor just real quick. Um you know there's all there's a million different brands out there now. There's you know all kinds of designs and stuff. That I like the banish because it's user serviceable, so that which means you can take it apart and clean it, right?

SPEAKER_04 27:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

So and I didn't know this uh until I I shot quite a because I I had that your scope on my 300. Actually, I had it well no, I had it on the 300 blackout because that's the only thing I had a threaded barrel on. And I was just I was shooting 150 grain deer season XP, you know, lead bullets out of that thing. And I was uh that that gun shot really well too. You know, obviously it doesn't have the same ballistics or um speed as a 243, but it was a good gun. Anyway, so last year I used it, took it, took the suppressor off this year, wanted to clean it. First time I cleaned it. So I took out the the manual that came with it, and I'm looking at it, and you get reading through it, and it's like right towards the end of the manual, there's a thing in there that says not recommended to shoot lead bullets through the suppressor. Oh and I'm like no kidding. I'm like, you can't what do you mean you can't shoot lead? What kind of bullets are you supposed to shoot through a I didn't know they made bullets that weren't lead, you know. I guess uh I'm just a redneck that never really looked into it. Yeah, I mean I should shot you know core locks my entire life fusions, those have lead in them, they're lead, you know, fused with feeding them lead whatever yeah, copper. Yeah. So I got digging into it, and I'm like they've they've since the eighties, early eighties, um, they have made copper alloy bullets. And I didn't even know that was a thing. It's all copper, super hard copper. And I got digging into these, and I was actually where I got the most information was from an article I was reading that Ron Spoomer wrote of how these bullets they're basically a hollow point, what I have, and uh right now I'm shooting um Federals um Power Shock, copper alloy, their sixty-five grain um sorry, eighty-five grain two forty-three. And these bullets kind of crazy, were designed because there are some states where you cannot use states, regions, whatever, where you cannot use lead bullets. Right? They did away with it for the waterfowl hunters quite a few years ago. You're not allowed to use lead anymore. You can't use lead sinkers when you go fishing. There are some states that require to use bullets that are non-lead.

SPEAKER_04 30:23

New York's I think they're going in that direction.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Right. And I'm sure every state will soon, right? But so we got two things now, right? I've got this suppressor that's recommending I don't shoot lead bullets through it, which to me is crazy. Right. But I'm like, alright, so that that led me to digging into this. I found that they make actual all copper alloy bullets, right? And it's probably to keep down on the fouling, but you're still gonna get some fouling, right? And then it's gonna act differently in the rifling of your barrel as far as the fouling goes, right? It's gonna be a different kind of material being stuck in your uh rifling, right? And so I said, I'm gonna try these bullets. And these bullets were designed to not break apart, right? These things are an extreme mushroom when they hit.

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_00 31:17

And uh boy, I tell you what, I mean, you've seen the videos.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

Yeah. Weight retention, weight retention.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Yep. Instead of you know, like a ballistic tip that wants to break apart and and make a bunch of shards in there to cut everything that it can get its hands on, this thing is just holding its weight and just total blunt force, as much as it is in front of it, it's gonna pound it, you know. And uh it's been it total hemorrhage. That's that coyote I scun out the other day. Um it was a pr you know, a couple of them, you know, had pretty decent uh hemorrhaging or whatever, but that last one, I mean it was like you you could tell, like it was instant bam, like it was just getting hit by a freight train. And um so I was I was impressed with that. And it does leave a bit of a an exit wound. Uh but on average I'm getting like a golf boss size exit wound, which to me is not bad.

SPEAKER_04 32:29

Nothing, honestly. Like when you're making hats out of 'em. Right. Right, if you're trying to make a blanket, even that can be sewn. And I think the importance of you know, they always talked about fur-friendly loads, and like they would have like the Horny D 55 grain V Max, 50 grain VMAX, like V Max has been all over the place, but like they would get these hot these small calibers, like 22250s, 243s, and what they were marketing was just the bullet completely fragments, so that ballistic tip actually blows up your lead bullet, and all that fragmentation is internal, and it sounds good, and it's fur friendly because there's only one little pinhole on one side, but what I have found for those non, you know, those marginal shots that aren't like precisely where like you want to hit a coyote right in the shoulder to put it down. If you hit them in the ribs like a deer, they are such a tough critter, they're gonna run. That's where you get the spinners, they're gonna run. It's it's lethal, but now if you get that fragmenting back in the lungs, yeah, the thing might run off 100 yards and die, but no exit wound and a pinhole entry wound doesn't make for good recovery. I'd rather have a golf ball size exit hole so at least I can find it if I didn't hit it perfect, if that makes sense. Like, for years, fur friendly, fur friendly, just rapid expansion just blows up internally, just kills them that way. That's true. But what about those ones like let's say you're me and you don't shoot that great, judging by your recordings off your scope, and you come to find out you're not as good a shot as you thought, and you're hitting them marginally, then there you go. It's gonna be hard. Like I had that one, I was shooting the 62 grain ELD VTs uh by Hornity, which is a great bullet if you put it in that four-inch circle, but I didn't. I hit a coyote back, and me and Luke tracked it for 180 yards. We had snow, two drops of blood. Yeah, dead coyote, two little specks on top of the snow. The only way we found that coyote was its footprints in the snow, and that I don't like. I don't like that. Yeah, I'd rather get that golf ball that you're talking about, and I actually used to use like the spire point bullets um for a long time when we were running coyotes with dogs. Whenever I'd use a 22250, I was using the all-led, like almost like the Winchester Super X. I would use those for years, and that's that's just an all-led um spire point bullet. And they mushroom great in that they would actually pass through the coyote and there would be a little golf ball size exit hole. Um and I loved them. But what you're talking about is with the all copper ones, and even even those ones, um, back in the day, those those all lead bullets, I mean, even those ones, I mean, they're not as great for your barrel like you're talking about with the different kind of fouling, but even if you hit something hard, they would the lead just like almost pancakes, you know what I mean? It's just like right, it's super like anybody knows lead's kind of a softer metal, so like you could even hit something with those ones and you wouldn't get that pass-through. So I almost and and you they just don't bleed when you don't get a pass-through, but yeah, I ran lead for years, but I actually um just started using copper bullets um this past year or two years ago now, but uh Domov Victory, when we went on our moose hunt, he talked about a good option would be a full copper bullet for my 30 odd six on the moose hunt, and uh and just the weight retention of those things, they just hold their form and like you when a bullet breaks up, so now you put like those lead bullets, you put a polymer tip on them, then it just shatters the lead, right? So actually what you're doing is you're taking away the energy of the bullet, if you think about it.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:20

If that bullet doesn't retain its shape, it won't retain its energy either. The energy, as soon as it breaks apart, goes in multiple directions, which in the old theory was that's what you want. You want that just rapid energy going everywhere internally, but coming to find out with coyotes, it's really it's not that great if you don't have a blood trail and they go off. Remember that one that you shot, I think it was the first one that you shot out behind your house, and you didn't even think you got it. You looked for it a little bit and then you had a party. Was it Cardi's birthday? Yeah, and uh did I see you you described it to me. I you didn't have a scope that recorded, but you described how it spun and spun and spun, and I was like, man, a spinner, and you were you agreed, you were like spinners are dead coyotes. Like you get a spinner, that's a dead coyote, you hit them good. You're like, man, I just couldn't find the thing. Well, I went up, and the only reason I found it was because there was a flock of crows. Remember that? Yeah, yeah. Like, how are you gonna find it if it's not bleeding? And it didn't. There was no no exit wound with that one. Yep. But that might have been with my 22 to 50. Yeah. Yeah, so all copper bullets, and I didn't know that about the suppressor. That's that's actually good to know because I shoot lead through mine.

SPEAKER_00 38:49

Yeah. And you know, obviously you can shoot copper bullets through it because I did it. It's not like the thing blows off the end of your barrel, but you know, I think that they recommend that because of the fouling. Yes, I would agree. It is much dirtier, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 39:05

Yeah, I my um my Yankee Hill can that I have um was the first can I bought. And that one's funny because I shot a lot through that thing. Like a lot of lead through that thing. Because I was I would try a polymer. I tried a nozzler and lost a couple. I had a I had a coyote once. Oh man, I wish we could like too bad, like, podcast. You can have video podcasts, but I wish everybody could see this coyote that I'm thinking of. I smoked this thing. I mean, it was like whack. I mean, it was just like and crumpled them, folded up, crumpled them, dropped them. It looked like that expansion inside of him, like I just hit him, he was facing straight on, and it was almost like he grew an extra size, and that must have been just an internal damage, but that ballistic tip, well that thing go to go to retrieve the coyote, and he wasn't there where I saw him drop. And I mean this thing was like down, bang. But of course, shooting at night, if you're not looking through your thermal, you can't see anything. Obviously. But I never I knew where he was he was standing, but when I went out to go get him, he was gone. And I had a blood trail for like a hundred yards, and then it just was spec'd. And then I lost that coyote. I know he was dead because there's just too much. So anyway, I went after that instance, I was like, man, and I can remember Ronnie Alger years ago. He had though he brought him into the waiting store in the morning before we ran, and they had the green, he was shooting 2250, he was shooting a savage, and he showed us a green ballistic tip, and he was like, Yeah, this thing's like the cat's ass, you know, and we're all I mean back that was like what twenty years ago now.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 41:08

And so like, yeah, yeah, hard to believe, but it was like twenty years ago, he brings in this green-tipped ballistic 22250, and he's like, Yeah, I'm gonna wreck him. He had like four or five runners where the dogs ended up catching them, and they wouldn't go right down. Now Ronnie is shot in I mean in the Northeast, I'd put him up against like anybody. He's killed piles of coyotes. I've been with him on Daisy Kill five, and I've done that multiple times. And he was he was at a half a box of those shells, and he hit every shot he hit him, but he was like, I'm done with these things, going back to lead. So I th I thought about that, I tried these nozzlers, had that hit. I said, Nope, I'm done, I'm going back to lead. Well, I shot hundreds and hundreds of rounds, because I shoot anyway, like I'm constantly shooting my coyote rifles, I'm constantly shooting my coyote rifles. And what I noticed in my Yankee Hill can, which you can't take apart and you can't clean it, but whatever the lead's doing in there, fouling it, now it's at the point where if I shoot around, and let's say I set the gun down, and I set it down, you know, you like you lean it up in the corner of the the shanty meadow or something, you lean it up in the corner of the shanty. Right? Yep. Or let's say you lean it up on the bench and go check your target or something, you take that next bullet out, and it the bullet that's chambered, it will like just be completely black. Like whatever's in the can is just coming down the barrel and building up on your bullet. I'm like, that can't be good. That cannot be good. But with that Yankee Hill can, you can't take it apart to clean it. They have like solutions and stuff. Yeah. But um actually uh Rod uh hold on, so you can grab it. Yeah, he sent me his Bortech, right? Bore Tech came out with a uh suppressor cleaning solution.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

Sorry, I had to run over to my gun bench here. Yeah, it's it's Bortech. Borec. Yeah, Bortech. There you go. So that's what I started using to clean my guns because it's actually like super awesome. Um yeah, no, it's the best. It's it's really good stuff. Um, but they make a two-part solution for suppressor cleaning. So, like you like you said, you're Yankee Hill, you can't take it apart. I believe what you do is you literally put a plug in it or find something to plug it, you dump the stuff in and let it sit, maybe slosh it around or something. You dump that stuff out, and then you dump this other stuff in, let it sit or whatever, slosh it around, you dump that out, and you then I literally think you put water in it to like rinse it out, and then you let it dry, and that's about as good as you're gonna get because you can't take it apart, you know. Yeah. But that's kind of why when I bought the banishes, you know, when I that's why I bought the banishes, you know, and um they are um there's cones inside of them basically, and um they're all machine, so you can always put them back exactly the right way, and but they all come out one at a time. You take a little anything, wooden dowel, you know, something not metal, but you can stick it through the end of the silencer and and push these. Combs out and they're each one of them, there's they're titanium, you can just clean them. Um so for anybody that you know hasn't really been in the in the suppressor game that's looking to get into one, there's like I said earlier in the podcast, there's literally a million different companies building them nowadays. But if you're gonna shoot a lot, you know, I would spend the extra money because like the banish that now they have the the banish 30 v2, which is like the updated version or whatever. Um but they're you know you can take them apart and clean them. Yeah, and if you're gonna shoot a lot, like I do believe I I believe they say like if you shoot a box of shells through a suppressor, you're supposed to clean it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 45:32

So that's changed crazy, you know. That's changed because when I first when I first got into the suppressor game, it's been a couple years now. Um Luke told me that it was or maybe it wasn't Luke, I don't want to put the words in his mouth, but I thought he was the one that told me that in the lifetime of your barrel, like if you had a suppressor on your rifle for the lifetime of the barrel, you wouldn't have to clean your suppressor. But now they're saying the opposite, and I think it's because like what I'm seeing with that Yankee Hill can. I mean, geez, I can't imagine I just don't believe that.

SPEAKER_00 46:10

I mean, you need to clean your actual firearm. I mean, why wouldn't you have to clean the Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, I mean, like, especially a suppressor, because all of that crap is getting blown you know, into it. Like it's catching it. It's literally catching all of your muzzle blast.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

It's catching all the time.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

What you would normally see, you shoot a you shoot a rifle in the dark and you see the sparks in the fire come out the end of it. Well, your suppressor is catching all that. Yeah. Basically, you know, so there's no way that that thing is not gonna get comp I mean not compromised, but that it is catching all that crap.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:48

So, you know, to me, it's like you clean your rifle, you know, you clean your barrel, you know, why not clean your suppressor? And that's kind of like when I bought mine. I think the bandit, I think I just looked at them. I'm actually getting ready to buy two more suppressors. I love them. And now it's zero dollars for a tax stamp, so yeah, um, but that's why the ones that I'm gonna buy are you know gonna be user serviceable. I do like the bandit. They actually um, of course, I'm a I'm a fan of Silencer Central. I know you're not, but um they have a lot of information on their website. Not a not a ton, but enough to be able to make my decision a little bit easier. But one thing they did do, they're like number they're big dogs in the suppressor game, obviously, but they they have tested, right? They've same rifle, three different 30 caliber suppressors, or probably more than that, probably twenty different suppressors, shot them all, measure decibel ranges, um, and recoil, and the banish are actually number one. They're the number one 30 cal. The banish 30 v2 is the number one out of all of them. Um and the nice actually the other thing I like about the banish is you can uh it can either be I believe it's a seven inch, or you can add another extension on the end. If you want even a little bit more decibel cut, yep, and um a little bit more recoil. You can add that there's two more cones that go in the end, right? But it makes it turns it into like a nine-inch suppressor. And I think it'll go down to a six inch in case it might be six or seven, I can't remember actually.

SPEAKER_04 48:37

I think it's like six, and you can add it.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

I actually had it, I had it full length on that on my gun that I built, but I because we were gonna be h hunting with it, I ended up taking that end off. And you know what? You can hear it because you know, obviously we got we can record audio on the uh thermals, but it it's amazing how quiet the thing is. And I when I went over to my dad's to shoot a couple weeks ago, he had never he'd never seen a thermoscope, you know. You know, and uh he'd he'd obviously never shot a gun with a suppressor on it. So we shot I brought my 204 Ruger, which I did not have a suppressor on it, but I wanted to shoot it. And um, so we were shooting that, you know, we had earplugs on. That thing barks pretty good. And then uh so I got the got my my coyote gun out on the tripod and I took my earmuffs off. I said, and uh he had earplugs. I said, You can take them out. And he looked at me kind of funny. I was like, No, I promise you, you can take them out. He's like, Alright. So he took him out, and you know, we shot it probably 10-15 times, and uh he's like, Man, I can't believe how much quieter that is.

SPEAKER_04 49:50

So I remember the first time I shot a suppressor, and I I am a believer that once you go suppressed, it's so hard to go back. And so I was always I was always the guy on the ridge that wanted to let everyone know I just got a deer. You know, that was just like I wanted everyone in the morning that was hunting around me to know that I just shot the turkey. You know, it's just it was like a badge of honor to have your your firearm break the silence. Like it's just I always, you know, when we were coyote hunting in a big group, right, and the dogs were running your way, and you told people that the coyote was coming your way, and you know, everybody's waiting to hear the shot, right? Or like that was my mentality was like if I knew the coyote was running to you and you're like, oh, you know, it's coming my way, and I'm I'm going radio quiet for a second, you know, there's you know, there's that level like we were such a team, you know, hounding that like whenever one of your teammates says, you know, like pass me the ball type feeling, like you got that good feeling when somebody's like, hey guys, I you know, it's headed my way, I'm gonna turn the radio down a little bit. And so somebody goes radio quiet, you know that they're in the game, and then you just like the anticipation to hear if they were gonna shoot for me was like more fun than if they were running at you, you know what I mean? And then you just hear the and you're like, oh, yeah, and then guy turns radio back on, you're like, God damn, I just missed that thing, you know, or or or dead coyote, you know, or whatever. And you know, so that was like the fun of it. So I never ever in a million years would I ever said that I'm gonna be a suppressed hunter, like I'm just gonna hunt suppressed. Never, never, ever, ever. Luke, Luke, and I, we've been friends for probably ten years now, but the first time I ever met Luke and he invited me over to do some shooting, uh, and this was years after I met Luke or whatever, but he's like, Yeah, come over, do some shooting or whatever, and he just got a can. And he let me shoot it, and it was on a 6'5 Creedmoor, and I was like, Well, I got I want to do the the test, right? Shoot without it and then screw it on and see the difference. So I shot it and boom, of course, I wasn't wearing earplugs, and so I was like, Whoa! I was like, all right, yeah, that's a loud gun. And he screwed that thing on for me, and I was aiming at a he had a tar like a it was a six by six piece of wood. So I was aiming at this block, a a six by six piece of wood, it was a block, and put that thing up and shot it, and I heard the bullet hit the block, and it was the first time I ever heard the force of a bullet. Because you can't hear it with the bang of a gun. But when you actually heard the actual whop of that bullet, and you're like, Holy crap, I was like, that that was insane. So I do a lot of shooting around my house, always have, and my neighbors probably have always hated me, you know, because I just shoot because I just shoot that much, and so I was like, after shooting Luke's, I was like, Well, I might not hunt with this thing, but I definitely could be a little easier on my neighbors, right? So I uh sc bought one, took me a year to get it back then, and then I got this crazy, yeah. Took it took me over a year, and I remember when I got it at Parro's, which is a gun store in northern Vermont, so I had to travel up there, so it was kind of like out of the way, like really out of the way. And they called me, told me I could come pick it up. Because when you buy these things, you have to go get your fingerprints done, you gotta let the know let the government know that you're getting it, you gotta do these background checks. Takes forever, and then Parrows keeps that can because there's a serial number with it, so they just have to keep it on a shelf for a year, let the dust build on it before they call you up and say, hey, you can come get this thing. You you know, you're approved, you got your stamp, bada. So, like, they called me and they're like, hey man, you your suppressor is good to go, you you can come pick it up. And I I was like, Oh, good to know. Well, I just waited a year, and I'm not just gonna run out of the way. So I was like, you know, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna when it's convenient. So they actually sat on the shelf for like another like couple weeks. It was on the shelf, and then Connor, our buddy that we were talking about earlier, he was in the process of getting one, and he was like, he was furious how long it was taking because he wanted it. And he literally looked at me one day and was like, Hey, you they're telling you you can go pick this thing up. You I'm gonna go get it for you. Like, I can't believe you're not just running up and get it. Well, I took the bike to work that day, so I was on my Harley, it was a nice day for a ride, so I was like, Yeah, you know what, I'll just go up and get it. So I buzzed up there two hours north from where I live, then two hours back, so I added four hours onto your day after work to get this thing, screwed it on my gun, shot around the yard with it, and you know what? I think I don't know if I've taken it off. Now I hunt with it. You know, the last you know, 50 coyotes I killed has all been suppressed, and it's just it it's so much more enjoyable hunting because you wouldn't know it, but like I don't know, just it's just it started becoming a thing where it's like, wow, it's easy on my ears because you're not wearing earplugs when you're hunting. You know, you can you can hear it hit the coyote, the bullet, so you know you either missed or didn't. So it like adds an element of like of you knowing your shot, right? Like with these recorded scopes and we can play it back, you know, it's just another thing, wow, it looked good, sounded good. You know, there you go, you're putting the puzzle together to go before you start tracking the thing, or like and they drop in their trash, it's just wop. You know, and it's like okay. Once you start doing that, and once you start hunting suppressed, of course, this whole you know, Luke really he was I wish he was on this one because he he would tell you, you know, he just went to a sniper training school or whatever. Because like Luke is I would say a shooter hunter, you know, like a lot of guys just hunt and they just have these old rifles they go to every year, go out in the woods, get their stuff, put it away. But then there's passionate shooters that they really enjoy shooting, and then they just go hunting, right? So like I would say Luke's a shooter above everything. Well, becoming good friends with him, it was the same thing as Louie back in high school. So me and you got our bows, and Louie hadn't even bought a bow yet, and we're we're shooting with our bows, and then we talk Louie and oh, you gotta get a bow, you ought to start deering with a bow. Well, what's he do? He gets so into it, and he becomes such a profession at like a perfectionist with shooting that when you go to shoot with him for fun in his yard, you don't have any fun because he embarrassed the hell out of you.

SPEAKER_01 57:41

Right.

SPEAKER_04 57:42

You know, it's just it's the same with Luke. Like, Luke's like, you want to shoot for fun, and it's like, well, I don't know if I've ever really shot f for fun. I've always shot to see if my rifle was on so I could take it hunting and I I could feel good about spending all that time in the woods. I'm not gonna you know it's gonna be me, not my rifle. But then you sit on a bench and then Luke kicks your ass and and is yeah, no wonder why you enjoy shooting, because you're embarrassing the rest of us. Like, you know, it's fun for you because you're making us look bad. But whenever I run up to somebody like Louie, right, Louie made me step my game up. And then you get you get it. You just like you get it. Alright, there's more to this archery thing than just you know, having a bow that you can shoot well. Like there's it's it's an art, making an art, and then next thing you know, I was like killing two deer a year with my bow and wounding two to now I get four deer with my bow. Well, I apply the same logic when I started shooting with Luke. I'm like, I gotta step my game up. And Luke, it just he already has the wealth of knowledge, and I'm just such I'm always been in my life, I've always been like a student. Like I want, I want to learn this, especially if I'm passionate in it. So like he made me a passionate shooter, where now, you know, like if somebody heard of said ten years ago, 15 years ago, you know, I'm shooting these high BC bullets, I would have been like, I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 59:23

But now you know, and you learn bullet coefficiency, and you're like, it wasn't really until I started shooting with Luke, shooting suppressed, he was the one that got made me get make me, but he's the one that introduced thermal to me. You know, I mean this was I really wish it was like later on, you know. I think you got into it in a great time because the technology is getting more affordable. Like really, when I got into it with Luke, I literally had to pay six thousand dollars for my scope. And here we are, what, four or five years later, and you can get the same damn thing for twenty seven hundred bucks. Yep, you know, technology just moves so much faster than the optic now. So so now it's becoming more affordable and they're perfecting it all like every single day. Like the thermoscope that Connor just bought, you know, he just bought a NoPix, um, Nockpicks, NoPix, NockPix, Nock P NockPix, yeah, which is an IRA, was an I right, an iRay product. They're yeah, they're whatever sister companies.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:35

So they're using um their technology, right? So what they did was so mine's a 640 unit with a 12 micron sensor, and pretty much what these sensors are, like you thermal is a uh you have a thermal sensor, and all it's doing is picking up a heat signature and then making sense of that signature so it can display it on a screen. This is like this is I could really dive into it, maybe we will someday, but just for the sake of this conversation, just very simply your thermal sensor is picking up heat signature and then it it puts it onto a screen into something that makes sense. It makes sense of all that heat and then creates a picture out of it so you can see it on a display. So like every year they come out with a new best higher megapixel TV, right? Well, same with these thermoscopes. So what they're doing is they used to have like these 12 micron sensors, which is in the scope that I have, which was a six it was a six forty unit, which at the time was the top line before they came out with the 1024s and the 1280s, those were like military technology, they wouldn't even give them to the public. So 640 was the top, and they would use this 12 micron sensor, and you would have to have uh, you know, it it was the 12 micron sensor was um the highest quality sensor to pick up the heat that could display it on you're pretty much buying a screw in your optic that could handle the clarity of a 12 micron sensor. So um but now my like my screen is obsolete right. So where I'm going with this is he bought a 384 but now with the advancements in having better displays and sharper displays they couldn't put those twelve uh those twelve micron sensors in a 380 before uh 384 before. Right. Because it won't give a c the the screen part that wasn't on a 384 wasn't able to give as clear a picture. Right. So now go ahead five years, and like they've already got something that they like they're just they just now launched all these new thermals for this year. There's a lab somewhere where they're making this shit and it's already obsolete. Like what they put out for this year's scopes, I guarantee you, where they're making this stuff is already obsolete. You can't push the technology, like the marketing doesn't move as fast as the technology, right? So so but now, fast forward from when I bought my six thousand dollar scope, you're buying the highest technology we can give you, so that's what it costs. Well, now it's it's obsolete. So he bought a 384 resolution, and if you look at the recording on these 384 scopes, you would think you're looking at my scope.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:14

I know. So I was impressed with that that scope that Dylan got when I was looking through it. I'm like, this is actually way better than I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

Yeah, and it kicks the butt out of the the one that I let you use. Because that was my that was my inaugural one. That was the one that got me into the game. And honestly, that thing, you just you're looking at a blank screen, and then if you see something hot, it'll show you a blurred out picture of it. You know, like a really important and then you get like then when I bought my scope, like I decided, all right, I'm I'm in it now, I'm investing, and it took me a year to save up, you know, to get this thing. It was like a year and a half before I felt comfortable paying six thousand dollars for a rifle scope. That's ridiculous, right? Right. But yeah, you want it, you work for it, so worked really hard and saved up, put pennies away until I could afford it, bought it, and I looked through it, I'm like, oh my god, I can see trees. I'm like, I you there's actually a picture out there where this before that scope that I let you use doesn't have that. It just found the heat signature and showed you. It's almost like the like the first GPSs you ever had, they didn't even give you topo lines, they just showed you that like you know what I mean, those old GPS where this little triangle is the truck, and you're gonna make a line, but there's no topo map. There's no now you have on X and you can see the cranberry on my phone. Yeah, right. Right on your so it's just like that's what we're talking, like that's what we mean by the technology. So it's like now these scopes, like he just bought a 384, it's uh you know, it's a$2,000 scope, and it's it's pumping out the same quality as the one I'm using now. That's why I'm saying like I I really wish I could just wait it a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Yeah, but yeah, you know he bought it through Midwest Thermal too. Yeah, is that the one dude? I wish I know knew you were doing that because I'm an ambassador for them and I would have gave you my code. Damn. Should have taken to uh he was playing around, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:27

Well, I think when you go to work every day and this this one guy comes in and he's like talking about all the game he's gathering. You know, you kinda wanna you know you kinda wanna get on it. And I I think it's chasing He said you showed him my videos from the last week or something too, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, and then I set him up with that rifle. I l I was like, here, why don't you try this? You know, why don't you make yourself a little bait site and and see if anything comes in? And he had coyotes coming in, so you know, last night it was the first time he put it to use and he he killed one just like that. Yep. I mean, I I do think thermal being cheaper, it's changing the game. I do think that when I first, you know, e I haven't been doing this long. This is still so new to us in the grand scheme of things, right? If you wanted to go run some hound dogs or whatever, I you know, I'd feel like I could, you know, point you in the right direction because we have a lot more experience with that. But this whole the way we're hunting coyotes now is way different than it ever has been before. Right. Like we're I mean, we're I got a shanty out in a field over in New York, you know, with a bait site. You know, we never used to do that. I mean and calling was very new to us. I think I killed maybe six coyotes in my life with a call over the years. Yeah, that just actually works and they run in and you shotgun them or whatever, but you know, this whole thermal shooting and everything, you know, Luke's kind of made me dive into the pool, you know, without checking for water, and man, I splat on the pavement because I'm I'm all in it now. I'm I'm trying to learn everything I can about the shooting game, the suppressed game, the optic game. I mean, I'm learning things about these, I mean, these scopes are making me learn things about bullet trajectories that I never even comprehended before. You know, I always I always thought you take a gun out of the sh gun cabinet and there's a deer standing there 70 yards and you pull up and you shoot it and you drag your deer out. Like that's that's all I knew about ballistics. Hold on the deer that's 70 yards away. But like some of the things that I'm learning, like I I knew what, like I'm not I'm not naive to it. Like I knew that you know there's snipers. You know there's snipers for the US Army that'll peg you out to a mile, right? You've I understand that stuff. But I didn't really my mind didn't comprehend how a bullet at 300 yards is dead nuts if you're shooting at two inches high at a hundred. Right. And then you look at two inches and you think to yourself and you're like, well, wow. And then you actually stand out to three hundred yards. Me and Luke shot three hundred yards when he was last home, and I was shooting a s a steel target at three hundred yards, which I never used to shoot that far at all. And you're just kind of going to yourself, you're like, Wow, like if you think about that, I'm still holding on at 300. My bullet was only two inches high at 100, and now I'm hitting dead nuts at three. I couldn't I used to not be able to wrap my mind around that. That's kind of scary.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

Yeah, no, no doubt. Yeah, these bullets. And it you know, obviously caliber to caliber, it's like when you bought that 22 arc, you know, you obviously bought it with intentions to coyote hunt with, and that's kind of what sparked this whole precision rifle thing with me, because uh, you know, we I never owned any kind of a you know, I I I do have a few, you know, ARs or whatever, but I've never used them for hunting. Um you know, but that whole precision, you know, the different ways to build guns to make them more accurate, you know, right down to a different trigger in them.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:27

Yeah, right. So like your stock you're talking about. Right. You people won't think about this, but by you adding a stock onto your rifle, change the whole dynamic of that rifle.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:39

And it it's not just a stock, it's a it's a precision aluminum machined, free-floating barrel. Right. So the barrel is not touching anything. And the whole the whole idea behind that is the harmonics, right? So the you w you you want the harm the harmonic to jive. Right. Right? And you want them to be consistent.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:04

So like what you're talking about, like so how how harmonics can change if if anyone's listening and be like, wow, they're just really diving into it. Well why anybody should read into some of this, and for the guys that are taking this and saying this is actually interesting, and have never really put thought into it, this is why barrel harmonics matter. Because if you sight your gun in and you're on a bag, and you place your hand I've seen some shooters, they like place their hand over their barrel to kind of hold the weight down on the bag, your hand on that barrel changes the harmonics. So if you shot and you grouped it, and now you're like, okay, I'm gonna go hunt with it, and now you're shooting at a deer, but you're holding the the stock underneath the barrel, the harmonics are gonna be different. That bullet's gonna be doing something completely different than if your hand was just on the barrel. And yes, it might not, for a deer-sized animal at 70 yards, probably won't make a difference, and you probably never notice the difference. But when you're trying to hit a coyote at 300 yards and you're trying to hit that four-inch circle that puts them down, it is a m.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:23

Oh, yeah. And that's kind of what I was getting at. That's what sparked the whole precision aspect of the city.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:29

Well, we became you know, this. We kind of became when we started baiting coyotes, like I said, we used to run them with hounds. They're running by uh, we got, you know, our wool-on shotguns, shotgun, number four buck, number four buck, or you're just you know, uh prey and spray, you know, shooting at them as they're running by with your rifle, right? It probably doesn't matter much. But when we started baiting and camping out in in like shanty, like our shanty meadow, and you're camped out there, you're you're now a sniper.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:07

It's uh it's a completely different game. If if we have a bait pile out somewhere and we go walk up and we're hanging out behind the round bales, and we're just waiting for them to come in, and you're sitting there for hours on end, and you because of where we're at doing it, the shot's a 200 yard shot because you can't get any closer without alerting them that you're there. So you're waiting somewhere, like you know what I mean? We kind of became sni we kind of became snipers. You know, you you have to now you're 200 yards away trying to hit a four-inch circle and the thing won't sit still. Right. Man, you gotta have everything on, like, even with your setup. Like yours are what, a hundred yards on all the four that you killed were on your site.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

Yeah, there it's actually it's called it's probably like a hundred and fifteen, probably, hundred and ten, somewhere in there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:05

So this setup in this spot, you're a hundred and fifteen yards away, and I mean you're with the videos that you sent me, you're a sniper. Like you you literally are hitting four-inch circles every single time at 115 yards on something moving. Which is that changes you can't just you can't just be good enough anymore, you know what I mean? It's like Louie and his bow. It's just like repetition, repetition. If if you were just gonna do this with you know that 243 that we were using, you know, when we were, you know, running them with hound dogs, you're trying to do it, you're probably gonna your success rate is gonna be like fifty-fifty. Probably. Right. Or less. And right now you're batting a thousand. Yep. Right? Getting everyone you shoot at.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:00

And that's and those fancy copper bullets we were talking about earlier, those are fifty dollars a box. Oh yeah. You know, I've got one bullet for each coyote, you know, so we're saving money here, folks. Yeah, and you know what?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:17

I've done that. I did that with uh my so I so Tom LeVictory um handloads, and he made me a box of 22250. And so these are like to me, I treated these like it's not just like going, you know, on the drive home and swinging in the gun store and buying a box of twenty two fifty and then going out and running your hounds or whatever, and then you got one running across the field, you missed four with it, and good enough, right? These are handloads, like this this took him time to build these. And in my mind was he just made me a box of twenty. So shot it to make sure it was sighted in for that round. We played around with it. We played around with a little bit of you know, change of powder, uh, like our charge, and um and the bullet. And you check your lands and all that stuff, so you do all this stuff to get it so your your gun likes it, and find a bullet. I think like I said, we went through a couple different bullets to find which one that barrel liked. And then I brought the when I got it dialed in, I brought the empty brass back and he loaded them again. So now I have a box of twenty. And by God, I was gonna shoot twenty coyotes of that box. And I did. Yep. That was like my goal. And I would I would wait until they were sitting so still. You know, if the if the shot wasn't right, if they were just coming through and you you've seen the last few nights how they like, well, that one that you were after, I mean there was one that was taunting you, right? Because I mean it it was it was there when you weren't, and when you were, it wasn't. You know what I mean? It was just that kind of thing. Well, man, when I was using this box, I was like, I'm gonna get a coyote with every round in this box. So I was w really patient, and I did it. I was 20 rounds, 20 coyotes, and that's what you try to do. That's what that's like it changes the game. It goes from I mean, it's just a different element of the hunt, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:34

Yep. Yeah, and and uh it's it's a lot more personal, and it's just when you put all when you pull it all together, uh everything you've learned and everything you put together and it works out, you're being successful, it's a it's a good feeling because you know that you've done everything you can possible to at the end of the day harvest this animal in an ethical way, and you you've got a science degree behind you, you know, backing it up.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:07

And you and you know, with with coyote hunting, you know, a lot of people that you know will get on there and watch these guys in coyote tournaments and stuff out in the Midwest or in the western states where they're killing 15, 16 coyotes a day. The Northeast is not the same. The Northeast is not the same when the coyotes are any different. You know, they might be it's just the terrain they live in. And we don't have as many coyotes like they do. I mean, they literally can just drive their trucks out into the prairie and you know call one up and or two or three and shoot three and then they drive a couple more miles down the road and call again and more are coming. Like I think they have more coyotes because let's face it, you know, those those areas that hold jackrabbits and you know, thousands of small game for coyotes to really thrive on, you know, they they're gonna have more coyotes. Like the coyotes up here, we don't have as many because they're really they're really relying on a road-killed deer or be able to catch a sick deer or something. And you know, you get coyotes in the area, you've seen how fast, you know, our old rabbit hunting spots just poof. You know, rabbits disappear pretty quick when you got coyotes in the area. So it's like we don't have as many, and the terrain that we have them is just a lot harder to kill them. So I'm telling you right now, for the month of January to be a guy in the northeast that killed four coyotes. You're doing something right. Yeah, yeah. That's a pretty successful month. Absolutely. But uh we'll we'll wrap this one up.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:55

We're yeah, we've been at it for a minute here.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:57

Yeah, we we are. We actually were talking before it too, so um probably try to get this one out. Luke's still gone. I'll probably try to get this card to you tomorrow. Yep. So we can put it out. It's not gonna drop. Yeah. We're in the new year. Um, this is still the same same season. We're not gonna change the season up. Our season is from uh bear hunting in September to the end of turkey season. That's our hunting season, and then summer is our really our break time. But we did take a little break. We apologize for that. We thank everybody for uh continuing to listen to us, and thanks for everybody who reached out to make sure that we were still alive. Uh had a fair amount of people that were hoping that we were still doing this. We are. The band did not break up or anything.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

Um Lucas, and actually, uh let's see, what's today? A week from tomorrow, I'll have a baby girl.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

In our family. We'll go from a family of three to family of four. So that's gonna also change up my schedule. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:11

In in May, I got a baby girl coming too. Yeah. So we got we got a lot more than just game seekers going on. So we're we're very thankful. Um, everybody's been staying patient as we took this little break. There's probably gonna be little breaks to come, obviously, with your change and my change in the not as near future, but near future.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

Um we're also people can probably figure out what we're doing when we're taking a break, obviously. We got two kids coming here.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:44

Yep. If if if we're and if we're taking a break, it's a great time for you guys to reach out like you did and get a hold of us for things that you want us to cover. We got a lot of we're gonna sit down and talk to Rod. I talked to Rod probably about four weeks ago about coming on the podcast, and then I just haven't been able to bring this stuff over and and sit down and chat with him yet. But we want to talk to Rodney.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

I really uh you let me know when you do that because I really wanna I want to be there for that. That and and uh I he wants to go coyote hunting too. Yeah. No, I told him, you know, we don't have to do it when it's eight below zero out. We can wait till closer, you know, even we can do it in the middle of summer.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:25

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:26

And you know, just fall time just yeah, do some call do some calling with him and find some spots that are easy for him to get to and and uh course I send him these videos, you know, and he's he's uh he's loving that and uh he likes being a part of us, you know, because he knows we're the next generation and he's trying to give us his knowledge too, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:49

I can't I can't, you know, thank Rod enough. He's been a great friend to us for a lot of years. Um you know you've known him obviously a lot longer, but I have known him for a while and I've I'm just getting to know him even better. And I mean he's a great guy. I can't wait to sit down and talk to him because he's a wealth of knowledge. And yeah, I want I want him to get out. We'll we'll get him out for sure. But I definitely want to sit down and talk to him because man, the guys, the guy's story is just a great one. I mean, just he's he has such a big part in the outdoors. Uh he's done a lot of really cool things in the outdoors world, and he he's an expert at uh reloading and firearms, and we'll probably like spin off from this conversation we had because he can really break down details and he can give us you know some insider stuff, and he can also probably correct us on a lot of the stuff that we've been saying that maybe we're not we're not experts. We're getting better, we're we're learning it as we go, and then we're trying to teach the listeners. Um, I'm sure there's a lot of listeners that know more than we do. Yeah, um, maybe they enjoy hearing it, but maybe some of them are like, well, you guys need to learn more. That's what we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:09

But we're trying to Yeah, and and we've we really want our listeners to reach out to us, you know, and you guys want to you want we like to be in have you guys be involved with this stuff and you know, call us out or you know, give us a shout-out, you know, whatever. But uh, you know, we like to hear from you guys. And I was just gonna say one more thing about Rod there. Um we're having a conversation. He's like, I'm really that's I'm so happy to see you using my favorite caliber, you know, ever, which is the 243 Winchester. And he's and you know, we got talking about bullets and stuff, and he said, you know, this just goes to show how much um knowledge he has, but he said, I haven't shot a box of factory ammunition in sixty years. Yeah. So this is how long he's been, you know, making bullets just just for an example.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:01

What I love about Rod too is like he is not afraid to give you constructive criticism in a in a jab when you when you need one.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:13

Because I've been I've been I want this 224 weather be mag and and I've been talking to him about it, and he's just like, dude, oh my god, what's mat like he's he's not like what's the matter with you, but he's just like what like shoot a 243, a belted, uh freaking belted casing, like what I didn't even think they make those in the and he goes, he's like I don't think you can get them, and then he goes, then I got on the internet and I found him. I'm like, oh my god, here we go. I'm gonna have to start making these for him.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:48

But then he's like, the 22 arc, right? So the 22 arc. I was at his house, we were loading up some 22 arc, and he's like, I remember when I brought the arc, he's like, You just come up with some shit, man. He's like, You just come up with some weird shit. Like, I was like, Well, you know, I kind of like shooting the oddball stuff. He goes, Yeah, but you know, the 243, that is just and he's so right.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:12

Like he's he's right, he's not wrong at all. But like he he'll uh every other day or so I'll get a message from him on Facebook, and it's like this this How or Tika 243. Like he'll send me like, yeah, you can get this one tomorrow. You don't have to wait for that freaking 224 for them to start building that thing again. He's like, Oh yeah, don't and uh if you do buy this, don't you won't have to wait for bullets either. Right. Uh and he said they certainly aren't gonna be a hundred dollars a box. Right. Yeah, so we got Rod. Hopefully we can get him on next, but we also got John Chaffee, Black Dog Shooting Supply. He just got back from the ATA uh the uh shot show. Shot show. Yeah, he got back from the shot show, and um he wants to get on here, he can kind of go over some of the stuff that he can get a hold of you right here in Rutland. You know, he he's um good local business, good guy to have in your pocket, because uh he can really get his hands on a lot of cool stuff, and he's gonna go over that stuff with us. So we have talk been talking about sitting down and talking to him. Um, and then we still have I said it a dozen times, but uh, we're just kind of waiting for things to um uh the sessions and stuff in Montpelier, but we have um hopefully we got a senator coming on who's gonna talk about some of these uh game laws, which are really just I've been scanning through them. We're we got some episodes coming up where we're just gonna have to talk about some of these laws. I think we're gonna do our annual the deer hunting laws in Vermont did change. We kind of covered the talking in the process of it was gonna change, but now that they are laws and they have changed the rules, we will just go over those so any listeners can get um get some input or get our input on some of the new rule changing and what it's gonna look like for the state. Um I do know that there's some bills in there right now that are still going after the coyote hunting, all this baiting stuff that we talked about. They're trying to get rid of bait piles, they're trying to make it posting your land, blah blah blah blah blah. I just oh my gosh, I could just it's protect our wildlife. It's it's wild. The thing I like I get caught up in reading some of their shenanigans and stuff, but then it's already Sobering and always good. Like, I don't know, I was looking at something today that it was like talking about um like the posting and this and that, but you know, it's it's really comforting to me. Like, I went to go check out their YouTube channel, and they've had a YouTube channel for a couple years now, and I'm just so glad that they get like 60 views of video. Like, good for you. Like, good for you. Like they just they uh we'll we'll go over that. Uh that's that's a whole nother two-hour long podcast. Oh my gosh. I I try I I do just keep my eye on it because they are the biggest thorn in the side to any sportsman in Vermont. Yes. And I mean you have to keep an eye on them because they are there's they sued the Vermont Fish and Wildlife. They literally found ways to sue the fish and wildlife. And it's not science-based, it's all feeling based. But like we do keep our eye on it because they almost slipped a bill in there that would have made this whole baiting thing illegal. So like we'll just we just want to inform people. We'll talk about that on one of them, and we'll have the senator on, and he can shed light on he he's gonna give us how the process is of bills and laws being made and changed. Go over the whole process, uh, which will be good because I kind of want to learn more about that, exactly how some of these things, and like you and I, Dave, we're talking about like maybe we can have him introduce new laws ourselves, because there are a few things that we can we can get into on the next one. But we we would like to be active for Sportsman, and maybe we should have some pro hunting bills come out. So all good stuff, all stuff coming. Uh thanks for being patient with the break. There's more breaks to come, but there's also a lot more good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:42

And yeah, and don't forget to tune into our uh GameSeekers uh YouTube channel because although we may not be putting out podcasts you know once a week, yeah. Um we we are still putting new content on there, usually every few days.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:59

Every few days, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:00

Luke's on the road, but he's always he's got his laptop and he's he's putting up stuff, so you can catch us on there um most any time with some new content every few days.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:12

With that said, uh as we sign off here, I want to congratulate you on we just hit four million four million views on YouTube. Oh wow. So congratulations on that. Yeah, congrats.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:28

That's that's amazing. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:30

Yep, just hit four million views. Our channel is three years old. So uh if if you come to the podcast and this is your place to see what we've been up to, um and you haven't yet, go check out the YouTube channel because that is another another place where you can see us, hear us, find out what we're doing, and keep on game seeking. That's right. Later, man.