Misunderstood Connections: Unveiling the Impact of Addiction and Alcohol on Relationships!

#014 - Hosts open up about their personal struggles with addiction and alcohol and the implications it had on their relationships. They traverse their journey from the highs and lows of substance misuse to their ultimate decision to seek help and live a sober life. They also discuss the critical challenges faced by couples where one or both partners are struggling with addiction. Shedding light on their experiences, they highlight how addiction progressively infiltrates relationships causing tension and unrest, and emphasize the importance of individual healing for successful recovery.

Transcript

 And so  we met when I was drinking and I was social enough to go talk to her. And now that I think about it, it wasn't, me because when I drank, I played a character. I played a character that I wanted her to like

 ​ Why does it feel like the New York just kicked in, Jody? 

Yeah, time flies easy, holy, especially when you're busy, like we both are. But yeah, you're right. Whole month down already  good to see you, man. You 

too.

I feel like I haven't seen you in  a couple of weeks. And I was out of town last Sunday. But time does fly. Let's put it that way. 

Yeah, it really does.  I'm excited about recording a little bit more material for. For Rat Race podcast I think we've had some really cool episodes go out, we've been getting some really positive feedback about this  and I'm really excited about sitting down again today and recording a bit more and.

I know we've also been talking about getting some guests on real soon, and I know that's going to happen sometime in the next couple of weeks for us. 

It is lots of positive feedback from people I know in Western Canada and Eastern Canada and just saying they're excited to hear people's stories and how they got out of the so called rat race and what they're doing to stay out of it.

So there's more to come on that this year. And just actually, I just, something just caught my eye right before while I was setting up today is I didn't realize we had a bus service in town that picks up people and drops them off at home. How 

does that work? Yeah. Care bus. So care bus  is a project that runs here in Thunder Bay seven days a week from one till 9.

00 PM. And Yeah they're able to pick people up around the city and keep them out of the cold and take them to where they need to go. So it's a really awesome project that that helps some of our marginalized people here in Thunder Bay to stay safe. 

Yeah, that's it's definitely a need for that and  I've seen that service very similar in Western Canada to something to do with Mothers Against Drunk Driving, I think it was, and they had  a team that would go around with the caravan at night on  busy nights throughout, especially like New Year's Eve, let's say, or  long weekends, they would go around  And they would pick up those that were, let's say needed a ride home, but they were under the influence of something.

But I don't know how that would work in terms of security if they had security with them. But it was a bus, right? Yup. And they would take them home. And it was in efforts to, yeah, one, get them home safely, but, less people. Drinking and driving or minimizing that 

I remember one of the big challenges of that in the big city was that there was always a waiting period. And so if you got to wait an hour for this van on a busy night to come pick you up, I love the idea. I wonder if that person that needed a pickup would wait an hour.

I don't know. , but I remember someone talking to me about that at one point and they just they ended up staying out all night rather than spending the money in a cab to get home. And it's funny, like you, you always have money to get high or get drunk. But you never look at, okay, how am I going to get home?

Oh, I know. 

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of times I have people messaging me asking if I can e transfer them some cash for a U ride or cab fare, and I love them, but I'm thinking to myself, man, like you had money to drink all night. Come on, we got to think forward a little bit about getting home safely.

But unfortunately when we're stuck in that active addiction that getting home safely is an afterthought a lot of times, when you're in the moment and you need more  booze or more drugs that's what you use your money for, and then you deal with those consequences later and sometimes that consequence can be being caught off guard somewhere where you don't want to be and not having the funds to to get out of there or get home.

And that's a frightening thing, but that's the reality of it sometimes. Yeah. 

Yeah, 

definitely. Yeah. And can relate that just to  having enough money to drink, but then it's not even the whole getting home part.  There was times where I never made it home.

I would just pass out on a bench and But then those other things too I would always wait till the last minute to pay my bills. Be like, okay, look, let's secure  my booze fund first for the next two weeks and, I'll pay my bills closer to the end, and there was times when I used to drink where I was like kind of penny pinching, like in a sense that like I was counting my pennies to make, waiting for that next check to come in.

 It wasn't a healthy way of living. I didn't like that feeling  of living paycheck to paycheck. And a lot of it had to, again, do with let's fuel the addiction first, let's secure the booze, and then kid you not, I had stashes in the vehicle, stashes in the drawer,  my personal workspace area at home.

I had a stash in the garage  and I had to keep it topped up, because if I'm in that room, I want to have access. 

Yeah. You prioritize your addiction. You want to make sure that you've got what you need when you need it, I can relate to that. 

And when my boys come over, I don't want to be going from one room to grab the booze.

I want it ready to go. Yeah. It was just one of those things. Yeah. Reminds you of your story in your home bar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's I yeah, man,  one of the things I've been thinking about this last week was my first relationship now  I have a relationship with my mom, my dad, my three sisters,  my immediate family, but I'm talking about an intimate relationship with someone else and like  my first relationship was when I was 21 and I dated a girl in university and it was around the time I started drinking. 

And so  we met when I was drinking and I was social enough to go talk to her. And now that I think about it, it wasn't, it was not me because when I drank, I played a character. I played a character that I wanted her to like and it was in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

I was going to university there at the time and it was like 2006,  yeah, is  when I met this person and even convinced myself, even though I think we might've hung out slash dated. More so hung out around the university and stuff.  If you call those even dates, right?

But it felt like I missed that in high school because  I was pleasing my parents and my parent structure that I thought, okay, I can get this in university now. I can play that character I wanted to play in,  high school. I could play it now. And it felt like a lot of fun, but everything revolved, I couldn't talk to her, I kid you not, without booze in my system.

And she even said, Azria, I know you recently started drinking, but I think it might become a problem. I remember her saying that. I'm so glad that she just Eventually she just said, Hey, it's not going to work. And I'm like, and I don't even think it qualified as like we actually dated.

I think it was the first time someone showed me that love back that affection back that I was like, yo, like she's the girl I'm going to be with for the rest of my life. But now that I think about it, like  almost nine years sober, is that Hey, that was such a fake relationship because it wasn't me.

I was trying to A, be accepted by a person and not really focusing on accepting myself and B, I needed booze in my system to even have a conversation with her, just some really like scary things and when people make it long term with requirements just those two things at the table in terms of like booze to facilitate a relationship and being someone you're not.

And when that becomes serious and it results in like kids and buying a home together, that's a very toxic recipe for disaster, in my opinion. I agree. 

Yeah, it sure is. Yeah, it's it's it's interesting, eh, like  I can relate to some of the things you said, Izzy, because, most of the relationships that I was in when I was drinking, I had to be with somebody who was also drinking, because almost everything I did revolved around drinking.

So if the person I was with wasn't interested in drinking, we weren't going to be spending a whole lot of time together, um, and of course,  When two people are drinking in a relationship, or drugging, or a combination of the two,  it's absolutely a recipe for disaster long term. I've seen that happen in my life.

I'm sure you've seen that happen in your life. I'm sure a lot of our listeners can relate to some of the toxicity that comes along with  two people who are in a relationship who are both using. It can get really ugly in a lot of different ways. But it's not even just like a, an intimate romantic partner even my relationships with friends, right?

Like everybody I hung around was also either drinking or drugging  or okay with me drinking and drugging. I, I didn't even entertain the idea of hanging around with anybody sober because why would I do that? That's not how I was living my life. I didn't want to  commit to sober downtime and doing like healthy activities.

I just wanted to drink. I surrounded myself with people who also wanted to drink and that included friends and partners. Yeah.

It's a hundred percent,  and through university, I can relate to the whole like friends thing as well. It wasn't just the intimate relationship. It was even being around so called friends and being social. I needed that booze as well. So this relationship ultimately, like it ended We kept in touch after I left Halifax and graduated, in 2008 2009, but we weren't like obviously dating or anything, right?

And I realized, and I continued to drink, I continued to drink and my second relationship was 2010 2011. I was a practicum student in Prince George, British Columbia. It's just right, almost dead center British Columbia. And two of  Canada's major highways cross  Highway 97 and Highway 16. 

Highway 97 runs north south to Vancouver and then Alaska ish. And Highway 16 runs east west all the way to Manitoba and the terminal being in Prince Rupert, B. C. So we're in Prince George, right? And I was doing my practicum with public health,   and I met  this lady and she worked in the same building as me and, I remember  I remember taking shots to do that practicum.

It's because I couldn't function, man. I didn't do the work on myself to learn how to connect my mind to my speech pattern without Booze.  And Booze gave me that taste of yo, this is what it feels like to speak  in front of people. And I couldn't help not take it.  It was like my strength, and so because of that, I was able to talk to this lady and this she was a few years older than me and we hit it off and we started hanging out after I was done my practicum, we started hanging out cause we worked in the same building. And But every time we hung out, like I had a home, a upper flat of a home I was renting.

So I had the whole furnished place to myself  and things were good. But guess what? Every day after work, we just co signed each other's behavior. We drank vodka. Yep. Vodka was her drink or I had my gin. We would just, we would have appies, but that's how we would justify it that, hey, we're eating food.

We're going to work and this is what life is going to look like for 

the rest of our lives. Yeah. And when look at us being social here together, hanging out, having a great time, yeah. Yeah. 

 Man, it was like the first time I felt like,  this is the one I want to be with,  but not really realizing that, like how fake that relationship is because I'm playing a character when I'm drinking because I haven't done the work on myself without booze in my system, and not even knowing where to start.

Without the booze. And it gets to a point where now I'm like, hanging out with like people she knows and I'm drinking and I get to a point where in a crowd, I'm a very silent person. I'm very observant one on one. I  can be social if I know you, and now I'm drinking  there's like a snapshot of me being social throughout that night.

And then I drink so much that I'm like talking to a brick wall. I'm not. I'm not responding properly or I'm responding with one or two words. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I've been there, yeah. And then smiling. That's it. Not a conversation at all. I'm physically there, but mentally checked out.

There's no engagement. Yeah. Yeah. And, but drinks were flowing, so it was supposed to be okay.  Plus, everyone in the room is co signing each other's behavior 

in that sense. That's the biggest thing. You just nailed it right there, co signing each other's behavior. And I think that's why a lot of times people who are still living in active addiction, they hook up with other people who are living in active addiction because you're not calling each other out on each other's bullshit, and cause how can you, like, how can you call? Someone out on their bullshit when you're participating in the same bullshit, right? So it makes it really easy co signing each other's behavior. Just like you said, I think that's the key  You know, I think it's true though in recovery that the same thing also is true But in a positive way, I mean you're co signing each other's positive behaviors you know if I were to ever get into another relationship it would have to be with somebody who is either in recovery or just doesn't use at all.

Because know that's the road to a healthy relationship for me. And that's what I'm looking for at this point in my life. If I would ever get into another relationship yeah. And then you're co signing each other's positive behaviors, and encouraging each other and and you're really having connection and building real bonds and, that real connection that, that just was never really there.

In the relationships that were based solely on, on booze and drugs. Yeah, I think it's really tough for someone who's using to be with somebody who's not using, and it's really tough for somebody who's not using to be with somebody who's using. Now, sometimes what happens is that maybe you both started out using and one of the partners decides to stop using.

Yeah. And obviously there's a lot of problems that come along with that, right? Yeah. And the other thing that can happen, of course, is that maybe neither one of you is using and then one of the partners starts using, and obviously there's a lot of problems that come along with that too.

Yeah, it's tough. Like I don't think that relationships can really grow in a healthy way when drugs and alcohol are involved, and I may take some flack for that statement, but I think that's true. I think that the healthiest relationships are. Relationships that are based on sobriety, truth, honesty, respect, where there's real connection and, um, I enjoy those relationships that I have in my life with my friends that are sober. It's real. Yeah. It's not fake like it was when I was drinking and using just co signing each other's toxic behavior and co signing each other's addictions and just living a, yeah, fake reality, just small talk bullshit and just hanging out.

And really the, a lot of times the only thing that we had in common was the fact that we like to drink and party. That was it. Yeah. Like you take that away and there was nothing left.  

Yeah, and I like what you said about it can be disastrous and it's almost like it is progressive. So at the start it might not look like a problem, a big deal, but then, one might recognize it out of the group and say, Hey,  I'm going to taper it down going forward.

But another one in that group. In that relationship might say, Hey, I'm gonna progress with it. And or they both progress with it, or they both taper it down. So it's with addiction and alcohol being progressive in terms of one day turns into two days a week, two days turns into three days a week.

Every dinner with my partner turns into drinking. It, it just, it's progressive. Yeah. Which can potentially be a problem. Yeah. Yeah. And so this relationship in Prince George, never. It died it faded 

. I can honestly say today that it was the best decision that she made was to let me go because I would have had to take her through all the stuff of me discovering myself.

Because what happened was  Let's fast track from 2011 to 2015. Okay, I'm working in public health and I go to rehab in 2015, okay? And I would have had to drag her through all of that bullshit, and, knowing what she's already been through, she had alcoholism in her life. Her dad, for example, her.

Her distant cousins, let's say,  for me to drag her through all that again I'm just saying what's thought to be disastrous at the time. Oh, my God, she's not, she doesn't want to be with me was the best opportunity in disguise for me.  And I didn't see it. And so I go to rehab, Jody. 

And it's like any sort of treatment facility where  was in rehab or call it an institution, whatever for  48 day program. Okay. That was the inpatient program. And then the outpatient, I was there for another like 28 days. So I did a lot of work on myself, but  counselors say they're not stupid when they say there's three rules that would get you discharged from  the treatment facility.

And one was like, no using drinking on site, right? No violence, you're not allowed to fight. You get in a scrap, you're both gone. It doesn't matter if your parents are billionaires or millionaires. The third one, fraternization with the opposite sex. . Okay. And counselors say and I saw that with the 80 dudes that are there, we all come in at different days.

Like someone might get enrolled, they're at day one and you're there with people that are at day 20 day 30 day 40 people going off to outpatient. So it's like a cycling system of. You have mentors within mentors, right? Like you have your counselors and your leaders on that front, but then you have what do you call it?

The patient mentors as well, or examples of what you're supposed to be at, like at day 20, so you know, day one might be the first week might even be detox, for sure. And counselors, it's hard to see at the time when they say no relationships for the first year. No relationships for the first year of sobriety or whatever you're trying to get off  because they know in history and research show that  If anything pisses you off with a relationship, 

what are you most likely to go do as an addict or an alcoholic? You're going to go pick up that bottle or you're going to go get that needle or whatever the hell you're shooting up, that's the default to us. So they say, figure your own self out, learn to accept, validate, confirm yourself, learn, figure out your identity, spend a year doing that.

And when healthy go into a relationship when it comes, but we shouldn't, I'm not relying on that to bring me happiness today.  I understand myself. I love myself, right? I'm happy. I'm here, man. I'm happy myself, but hey, if something comes along and I have to add to my happiness, great. But guess what? If that individual disappeared or left today, I would still be 

happy because I've done the work.

I totally agree with you. That's because you and I are both on firm footing in our recoveries. And we've done a lot of work on ourselves. I'm like you, I feel very confident, comfortable in my own skin. I'm very confident. I'm single and I'm happy with myself. And like you said, would I be interested in adding something positive to my life?

Possibly. But it would have to be very positive for me to even consider that, because yeah, it's a, once you're comfortable and confident with yourself and you've done some healing work and you feel good about yourself You don't need anybody else. It's more of a situation of wanting somebody else, whereas I find I think maybe a lot of points in my addiction, maybe I felt like I needed somebody else and it wasn't about wanting that person.

It was about needing someone there to maybe co sign my behavior or just keep me company. And I wasn't feeling real good about myself at the time either, and But but no, in, in recovery, it's different and yeah, I remember just going back to something else you said there, like, how.

When you were in active addiction and you were drinking and you met that one lady there and how you were Drinking gin and she was drinking vodka and it just became a normal thing It made me think of how it was for me too Like we were even just about justifying the drinking by drinking like fine red wines, right?

Like we'd have it with meals and it was like, ah, like that's just part of the experience you've got to have a bottle of red wine with a meal and again just justifying the addiction and in our minds like, yeah, how could you possibly have a a nice steak or a seafood dinner without a glass of wine?

You'd be selling the meal short. It wouldn't even be a, worth having if you didn't have that that glass of wine or you weren't splitting that, that bottle of wine with you, with your partner. Yeah, it just, it's amazing what happens when you're not well.

And when you've got alcohol driving your  boat and it's amazing.  

Yeah. Thank you for that wine and dinner example. And there's nothing wrong with that. If people can folks can just like, if that's it, if it's just one glass. You and I to me, it's not 

that.

It never was for me. It would be, it'd be, we'd split a bottle and then we'd open another bottle and then we'd have that third bottle, and then we get into some Baileys and coffee afterwards. That's how it went. It was never a glass of wine with a dinner.

It was multiple glasses, followed by liqueurs and it just, it was ridiculous. And a lot of times we justify it because how can you possibly have a problem when you're drinking a. A 90 bottle of red wine, right? Or, Bailey's and coffee, man.

That's not what alcoholics drink. Come on. You know what I mean? But. Of course it is. And a 

90 bottle of wine, that's yeah, we're successful. We're doing well in life. That's right. So we can continue to drink. Exactly.  

But I think we alluded to that in an earlier episode when we were talking about the bar that I stocked at my place, like it doesn't matter what label is on the bottle.

Yeah. Alcohol is alcohol, and it's all poison. Whether it's a $15 bottle of Kelly's or a, $150 bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon, it doesn't matter. It's all alcohol and it's it's all just  poison for our bodies and minds.  One of the things I've 

noticed too, with that example of wine and dinner or alcohol and dinner is like,  everything can be going.

In a relationship and I'm basing what I'm saying on my observations of couples. I know. Okay. And it just takes one catastrophic event in either of their lives in the couple's lives. Usually it's loss of something could be a person, it can be a thing, you know, and to cope with it. Now those dinners are turning into like you said, more than one bottle.

It might've been that at the start. But the easiest thing to do is to continue to drink and so I've seen other catalysts in people's lives that, that escalate that, that wine and dinner 

thing. Yeah. A hundred percent. All of a sudden, to go along with your glass of wine there you're having a couple of shots of tequila, and Things just escalate and yeah, man, I've been on that ride enough times to know exactly where that goes and how that goes,  you 

know, and there's some signs to like, when I I have a problem drinking if I can't just have one glass same here, when I, in my drinking days, there, there's some signs at these dinner parties that this is when you know that, it's, I'm an alcoholic or you're an alcoholic.

When people around you don't finish all the booze in that glass and it just sits there, like that used to bother me. It's you're not going to drink that, and let that go to waste. Yeah.  And opening the fridge and the family has like. A bunch of booze and  yeah, Johnny just has one after work, but he's got like that would not be present in my fridge because the booze in that fridge was for that day only. 

And then the next day it'll be stocked up for the next day. That's not my secret stashes. This is aside from my secret stashes, and another indication was,  this is a big one for someone that has a problem. I used to drink in the vehicle too, before going into the party.

I did that too, because I didn't want people to think that I've already had 12 drinks or a Mickey in my system. So I thought, okay, I'll just put on a character that, Hey, I'm going to have one or two drinks there. I'm going to roll in thing. Yeah. I had a long day, I need a drink. Yeah.

But these guys don't know later, they probably knew that, this guy's sloshed or hammered or you just stopped getting invited. You just stopped getting invited to these events. And then you end up staying home and drinking yourself. But. But I used to have those drinks in the system okay, I'm already social ready to go.

Okay. Now let's go see what they 

have to offer. Oh, same. Same. I used to prime up before I go out all the time. Prime up. I like that. All the time, and then it was like his, a lot of times it was that that embarrassment, a combination of, I wanted to feel good when I got there already.

And the second thing was, I didn't want people to see me having to to  drink, eight or nine Ryan Cokes to just get in the zone and be comfortable and be social. So I would just do that before I showed up. So a lot of times, yeah, I drank on my way to the party or I have a few at home before I hopped in a cab and headed over somewhere that happened all the 

time.

A hundred percent. And then I remember  one time at a event I drank a lot and I ended up passing out in the basement on their couch. There's no one down there, right? So I'm like, yeah, it was a close buddy of mine. So it was no problem. I think throughout the night they were wondering where did this guy go?

But I was downstairs. I was passed out on the couch. And then when I woke up, everyone was still sleeping. It was like, probably like 5 36 in the morning. I'm like, shit I, I passed out cause I started drinking all day. I think it was a Saturday. I started drinking all day. Yeah. So like it would have taken one or two glasses of wine mixed with like hard liquor that I already had in my system.

Didn't just knock me out. Just to put you right over the top. Yeah. I was looking forward to this party. So I spent all day drinking and then I got there and then I didn't even enjoy it. No. I didn't even remember. This was closer to the end of my drinking. And so I'm, I woke up and guess what? The first thing I was looking for when I woke up, you've been there, right?

Of course I've been there. It was like, okay, where are these bottles at? Let's get a shot in my system because it's Sunday morning. I don't have to go to work till Monday. So I'm going to, I'm going to, I want that residual. Let's go. But that's what I did the night before, the day before, when I woke up, I was at my place and I started drinking early.

Exactly. And then and you find hard liquor, you take a shot, what's sad.  Beer bottles that still had half the booze in it? I drank, I would drink out of those. That's a prob. Yeah, that's a serious problem, man, you know, and then all of a sudden Monday rolls around and you know what?

I got sick time in the bank. Let's call him sick. Yeah. So that was a an ongoing cycle and I was in no shape to be in any relationship. No, not exactly during my drinking because it would have been toxic to 

the, to the person. Me neither. Me neither. And we didn't realize this at the time, obviously, like it's perfectly clear now in hindsight.

But that's why it's interesting and cool that we can talk about this and maybe share these experiences with others because, yeah, at the time, I think you probably thought that those relationships were normal and amazing and incredible. But yeah, looking back and knowing that that we weren't healthy in those relationships and we were struggling with our addictions.

It's clear as day to me that caused a lot of the problems and a lot of the grief in the relationships that I was in and inevitably led to them not working out.  

And it's hard to see that like when we're in that relationships, the one person that the people that are more likely to be blinded based on my own experience are the ones in it.

If you're in that relationship and I was more likely to ignore the signs. Yeah. Yeah. It sometimes takes an outside lens to realize, Hey, there might be something there. I think being aware that, Hey, addiction is progressive can take a couple a long way and be like, Hey, something's not right here.

Let's try to nip this in the butt earlier rather than later before it becomes a problem. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Know?  What are your thoughts, AZ when we're talking about couples who maybe are both using, right?

And then one, one of the people in that relationship decides that they they want to work on themselves and heal from their addiction. Do you have any thoughts  on that and how that works and and how that can play out?  Yeah. 

Love is powerful. If the couple is in love, it's hard to let the other person go when they're still actively using, while at the same time, they're trying to  heal themselves and be a journey of like strength and healing. I personally never been through it because  the relationship ended.  So we were independent, but having said that I've experienced close people to me.   Go through something like that. I know a couple today where the person has like X years of sobriety, strong, goes to meetings every second night, has a home group, but husband's still at home drinking. 

They're still together.  And she shares these things at these meetings. This is in British Columbia, Northern BC. She can't let him go because the love is there. Do you know what I mean? They've had kids together and they still have a home to get, 

you know what I'm saying? I do, but that's gotta be really hard.

. I just, I can't imagine how hard it would be  being sober and, having alcohol, not only in the house. But having your partner using, because

I don't know, man, like I've been there myself where, I got sober and my partner was still using and what I really wanted, in, in my fairytale land was for my partner to decide to make those same choices that I'd made to get sober, and and I held on for a really long time hoping that would happen.

But I wasn't happy with the setup that we had. I wasn't happy with her still using it was making me miserable and her addiction was actually causing me a lot of grief.  I was able to stay sober, but our relationship was. Not healthy and it was not healthy because of her continued addiction, and I don't blame her for being addicted I mean she was struggling just the same as I was struggling, you know She had a lot of unresolved trauma and so on  but it's like I held on for a really long time hoping and waiting and it it never got better, and and the relationship just got more and more toxic and more and more unhealthy. 

And so I'm just sharing from personal experience, and I'm sure that there are lots of different experiences out there, but I found it really difficult to to try to maintain a relationship with somebody who wasn't serious about  healing from their addiction. For 

sure, Jody. And thank you for sharing that.

I think. There's a level of investment as well emotional investment as well. When  the couples I know, they had kids together, they had a home together, they have grandchildren together. So they did it, they made it work because they thought of everyone else. And it was healthy in that sense to have the grandparents around, let's say, and, but whereas like in today, if I were to in a relationship and my partner's all of a sudden using. 

I don't want anything to do with that because I have less, let's say investment with this person, both emotionally, both asset wise, you know what, it makes sense if I don't have my mental health and it's diminishing my my it's renting space in my head. Then it's the best thing for the both of us is to discharge and go do our own thing.

Yep. I'm going to take my path. I will be here if you ever want to talk. But and I will pick up that phone if you call and if you need something in that sense I'm here to listen and support, but you have to go figure that journey out on your own. It's probably the smartest thing because rather before investing into it, it's going to be more toxic later anyways.

So it's better to be aware today and get out of it. And if you don't know go get help. There's health professionals out there from counselors to whatever else that can help. And what's more, even more effective is just sober or safe spaces like group settings where others share their own stories, whether it's a meeting, whether it's how let the moon cafe.

It's there's tons out there and I find I get more out of that because other people share in the real life stories, 

what about what about couples? We talked a little bit about it earlier on in this particular podcast, but what about couples who maybe we're gonna, we're gonna start off either sober or literally as casual drinkers, but one of the partners their addiction spirals, what about that?

 That's gotta be tough too. Maybe you're, you're, your relationship is going really well. But then your partner their addiction just starts to get progressively worse because like we've talked about addiction is a progressive thing.

And what what are your thoughts on that Izzy? Like it, it, again, it's I'm just thinking again it's really tough, like you might care about that person a lot. You might even have kids or a home or a family. But , like I just I see some people who are reluctant to and those relationships and it's nothing short of living hell sometimes for people, and that's just the sad reality of it.

Any thoughts on that at all? 

Yeah. More on the lines of, what your thought processes on all of this I think stuffing it and bottling it up is toxic for. The individual that's going through it especially the observer of the person that's, um, spiraling down this path.

I think talking about it in group settings and just not stuffing it can lead to some sort of decision on what to do. Every scenario is case by case, but I'm a huge believer of  therapy and getting help. And I don't know what that always looks like. And it. It's therapy for the observer and the person that's going through it.

Now, the person that's going through it, in my experience, is usually in denial and does not want to have anything to do with it. Yeah, exactly. So  what worked for me was  80 people in rehab that, that were going through it as well. And they're sharing their stories. And so there's support groups out there for people Where their loved ones or the people they care about are going through something, addiction or alcoholism.

And that's my kind of two bits, is to reach out and have those discussions because  you know it, it's not gonna give a person a script but it will give some sort of direction. Now  here's the thing, man it's crazy. It's wild because. I look at all the people that are using the sad thing is they have to realize it on their own.

They do. The reality is that  some of them aren't going to make it. Yeah.  Reality is that some of them are going to get help and then come back and spiral again. And then also a reality is that some people are going to. Go get help and then be on a great healing journey.

I'd say it's 33%,  counselor rocked the stat and rehab. He's yeah, 66 percent of you are going to relapse and not make it or continue to relapse and be in this crazy rat race cycle. Isn't that wild? They're 66 percent and one third.

We'll figure it out.  And we're like the highest of the risks, like highest of the high risk. 

And you're looking around the room  and you're like, there's what, 20 of us here and you're thinking like, God 12 of us are going to be in that cycle of addiction. And And eight of us are going to make it out.

And it's, yeah, that's a tough stat, but that is the reality of it. You 

know the way I see it, man, is  if it's just me and a partner at this point in my life, if someone's going through it. I will be there for them to listen and all this stuff, but then you got to go get help yourself.

They have to. But that's easy for me to say now nine years sober because I know what life is like sober, 

And you just nailed it too. Like they have to get it themselves and they have to want it, and I think that's, I think that's a problem that a lot of people who love somebody, like maybe their partner is is really struggling hard with their addiction.

Is that we want to, we want them to get better, obviously, because we love them. Like we want them to get better. And we we push them and encourage them to get better. And we're hopeful that maybe we can  make an impactful change in their life and help to direct them in that right direction.

But  the cold heart truth is that it doesn't matter how much we love them. If they're not ready to acknowledge that they've got an addiction problem and they're not ready to seek out that help and work on themselves, there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it. And that hurts and that's really hard and that's really difficult, but that's just the way it is and that's the truth.

We can love and encourage from a distance. The truth is that the people who are bullied into going to treatment or where it's court ordered or where they're doing it because their partner wants them to or their mother and father want them to they often end up relapsing because they're not, they don't want to, they're not there, they're not at that point.

And and that's a really difficult place to be when you love someone who's addicted because you just want them to get better, and but yeah, when those when our addicted loved ones aren't ready there is, there's nothing we can do  to speed that process up or make them want that recovery that we want for them.

They've got to want it. They've got to do it. I'm with you, 

man. I couldn't have said it better myself. Jody

man. I think that was a good conversation. Yeah, 

absolutely, man. And thanks for sitting here with me today.

Yeah, likewise. I'll see you next week. Thanks again.