Star Wars: Safespace
"Star Wars: Safespace” is a positive force for long-time fans and the Swarsy curious. Free of gatekeeping, judgment, and negative Star Wars theories, we break down a different TV episode or film from the Star Wars franchise each week, in a relaxed, easily accessible atmosphere. This is your Star Wars safe space to learn more about a galaxy far, far away, with people who love Star Wars, even if they don’t always like it.
Star Wars: Safespace
Clone Wars Rewatch-Season 4 Preview: Dark and Gritty
Hey there Star Warriors! As we venture into the depths of Star Wars: The Clone Wars Season 4, the narrative takes a darker turn, promising intense story arcs and rich character development. With Dave Filoni's expert direction, the series matures, capturing the hearts of both new viewers and long-time fans. It's a season that demands reflection and rewards patience, much like the excitement of its original weekly release.
We also tackle the evolving landscape of Star Wars content, from shorter episode formats to the ambitious pace of Disney's annual film releases. All that and more this week in your SafeSpace.
Follow us on social media @TheSWSShow. Once we get our poodoo together, you'll find show clips, behind-the-scenes shenanigans, Star Wars news, memes, updates, and more!
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right, yep, good coming up this week. Things are getting dark and wet and if you know, you know it's star wars, the clone wars, season four. Right here on your star wars safe space. Stick around around, hey, hey, hey, howdy there, star Warriors, welcome to Star Wars Safe Space, your non-toxic, low-sodium Star Wars show. That doesn't make you feel bad for not knowing that THX 1138 was the very first film George Lucas ever directed and is referenced several times throughout Star Wars lore. So, whether you're a hardcore fan or just a little swarzy, curious, this is indeed your Star Wars Safe Space, and we are the Circle of Nerds and we do absolutely love Star Wars, even if we don't always like it. So let's meet the crew, shall we? From my left, your right pilot of the infamous Parma Flyer, it's Crash.
Speaker 3:Hi everybody, S-Foil's locked and ready to go. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:There you go, there you go, and hailing from parts unknown, it is t to the oni welcome back to the galaxy, everybody.
Speaker 1:Hope you all had a good holiday yeah, yeah, we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2:We'll talk about that too. Yeah, thank you for reminding me, because I totally forgot. We had a holiday and I and tommy d you're more than slightly obnoxious. Star wars know it all. So what are we doing here? Well, it's very simple. Our mission is to watch all of the canon star wars films and tv shows in chronological order, mostly breaking them down, connecting the dots and learning a little more about star wars, and maybe even about ourselves. Isn't that just warm and fuzzy? So word of warning to all of you would-be Star Warriors there will be spoilers. So we're going to get into it. We're going to be looking ahead to season four, but first the news Crash. You got something for us.
Speaker 3:Sadly I do. Over the holiday we lost Angus McInnes who played Gold Leader in A New Hope. He was the leader of the Y-Wing Squadron so I had to bring out my little Y-Wing to represent. I met him at my first Star Wars celebration Cool guy. And then, you know, we talked a lot. I actually patterned my Rebel pilot costume.
Speaker 3:Tommy remembers me when I used to troop with the Rebel Legion. My X-Wing helmet was done in Gold Leader style but in our squadron colors and I was really proud of that. I actually got to meet him again after I got out. I got a picture with him in the helmet with the helmet and I told him like man, this is because of you and I love Y-Wings and I thought you know they were cool. Man, this is because of you and I love Y-Wings and I thought they were cool. I like the Bombers. So I was a little sad to hear that when he passed, because he was a really good guy and it's just one of those things that you make a connection with some of these people that you see on these movies and he was a good dude and he'll be missed.
Speaker 2:All right. And was he a fan? I mean, was he one of us? I think?
Speaker 3:so he was very personal. He understood the fandom has a lot of nitpicky trivia things that people like to ask about. He doesn't have the answer to say everything. I think he appreciated it. He did tell me the second time I saw him we were talking about how they worked him into Rogue One and how they used old footage that they'd shot back in the 70s and he did some ADR voice recording.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 3:So when you don't see him on camera that's fresh dialogue. But the footage you saw of him was digitally enhanced stuff from the 70s so that they could work in the original Red Leader and Gold Leader in the movie. That's like taking place just hours before New Hope, so he kind of bookended the saga. He even had a cameo in the sequel trilogy as part of the First Order Rise of Skywalker.
Speaker 3:He was one of the First first order officers in that briefing conference room that's so cool yeah, so, uh, his family put out a statement, uh, the christmas eve, I think, saying that he had passed away and, you know, shout out to the wishbones out there and if I'm not mistaken, the parma flyer is a Y wing.
Speaker 2:Is that correct?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's sort of my unofficial nickname, for I guess I might. When I was a character in the rebel legion, my ship, I called it the Parma flyer. So shout out to gold leader.
Speaker 2:Love it. Oh, man, you know, and I have to say, um, rogue one was really cool for that, like you know, when, when they did digitally I mean cause, you know, red Leader was in there, I mean, we had, we had all of the original X-Wing and Y-Wing pilots represented. Um, because, yeah, like you said this, you know the events of rogue one. Well, at the end of Rogue One it takes place just maybe hours before the events of A New Hope, if not sooner, maybe less than an hour. I mean, vader was hot on Leia's tail.
Speaker 3:True, that was a great way to tie in the two movies and I think John Knoll said in an interview one time, like you know, he pitched the idea for rogue one to Kathleen and basically it was like it says in the scroll. You know, you know the, the, the first real victory for the. You know, against the. You know what if it was stealing the Death Star plans. You know, and and how did that come about? It was a great way to tie in a new movie with something that's been established for well over 40 years but they, they, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think we could have, we could have done without that. We didn't. We didn't necessarily need to see that crazy uncanny Valley creepy princess Leah, but I don't know. That's me, that's me being a nitpicky fan, because other than that, it's, it's up there, it's, it's it's my number two star wars film like, out of all of the films, it's it's my number two. Rogue one is just a great great star wars film, absolutely love it.
Speaker 2:I mean, we based we based the intro of this show on the infamous hallway scene, which also divides fans. There's a lot of fans that find the hallway scene to be like really hokey and corny and just I don't know. A lot of fans don't like that hallway scene and, uh, I don't know why. If you're listening, if you're watching, please comment, let us know. If you don't like the hallway scene in rogue one, tell us why. Because me personally, that is exactly how I always wanted to see Vader. We get to see Anakin being a complete badass and a savage. We get to see Luke eventually being a badass and a savage, but not until the Mandalorian. But not until the Mandalorian, but we never really get to see Vader really being scary as fuck and rogue one gave us that and and people kind of. They kind of poopoo on the hallway scene.
Speaker 3:I think there's some. I'm kind of in between. I see both sides of the coin. I think there's this element of the nostalgia for that entrance of Vader. Everybody talks about how Vader's an iconic character in cinema history. That shot of him walking in was on all the storybooks when we were kids. It was the image you had of Vader, your literally first image of him, and that was after the shock troopers went in and busted up the hallway defenders. So the idea that, oh, maybe Vader took the first swing, got through first and what needed to take a breather had to dial up the asthma machine or something. I think that's maybe the only reason people kind of like, hey, I had this image of Smoke and Vader whooshing in and all that. Why didn't he just come in and tear up some more guys like he does in Rogue One? That's the only reason I can see people having a problem with it. Because you're right, it is peak Vader to see him with a lightsaber just plowing through guys with blasters that have no idea that they're already screwed.
Speaker 2:Right, and I'm looking something up right now, but you bring up an interesting point too about that image of Vader where we just see him like like silhouetted, you know, and it's just, it's just him and his lightsaber, and, um, it reminded me of the cover for splinter of the mind's eye. Yeah, and I'm, I'm, I'm pulling it up here, I'll see if I can drop it in, but um, it's his, his, his saber wasn't out, but um, that was the first, the first uh sequel, uh, two star Wars that came out in 78. I think that was like our first EU book and then it ended up being like decanonized.
Speaker 3:It was a backup plan in case the movie flopped.
Speaker 2:Right, it was a great book. I encourage everyone to read it. It's a great book. You know we hadn't worked out yet that Luke and Leia were brother and sister, so there's, there's a little. There's a little game of Thrones going on in there a little bit.
Speaker 3:It just hurts to think about.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you just think oh, um, but uh, oh man, where is it? Where's my? Uh, where's the? Where's the image? Oh my God, I just lost it. But anyway, um, I'm gonna have to cut all this out because I can't, I cannot multitask like at all clearly, um, so silhouetting vader silhouette.
Speaker 2:Yes, so the hallway scene again, I don't. I don't know why it gets so much hate, because I uh, I absolutely positively 100 love the hallway scene in its entirety, like it's just everything about. It is just so freaking badass. I can't stand it. I mean it's like you hear the breath. The lightsaber ignites as the music starts and he's just saucing the hell out of people left and right and the one, the one trooper, he's just beating on the door.
Speaker 2:Help us, nobody, help us, like that terror of seeing this, this giant wheezing, black armored, you know, demon, you know, with an archaic weapon that you haven't ever seen before. You know a lot of those guys. They didn't, they'd never seen a lightsaber before. This is what you know. 18 years after, after order 66, 18, 19 years ish, after order 66. So some of these guys probably never saw a lightsaber. Even if they were alive during the time of the Jedi, the likelihood of them even encountering a Jedi was slim.
Speaker 2:So now here you've got this scary, like I said, very demon-like entity walking down the hall and just destroying your buds. I mean, like you know, an hour ago you guys were kicking it in the cantina on the ship and now Vader just takes Ralph force, pushes him to the ceiling and then cuts him in half and it's like wait, wait, what you know, mr Vader, I'm sorry. I'm sorry we got on the wrong ship. I'm not supposed to be here, I'm supposed to be somewhere else. I swear, but and then I think at the end, when he's just like launch. I love it, tony, please.
Speaker 1:I love it, tony, please. I love that scene too, don't get me wrong. I do understand, though, why some people might have a problem with it, because now, if you're looking at it like as an original person, when you first see, okay, yeah, cool In episode four, you see again, the troopers have already taken out most of the guys, and then Vader walks in and you see Leia standing up to him and being her badass self. Okay, I can see that, because we as an audience haven't seen Vader do all of that stuff yet. Right, so it's the.
Speaker 1:We know he's the bad guy, we know he's a threat, but we don't know to what extent he is. So like, and again like. We're literally talking maybe an hour's time from the time that he has that hallway scene to when he's confronting Leia, in hours time from the time that he has that hallway scene to when he's confronting Leia. And I'm sorry if I'm Leia and I've experienced and heard this whole commotion, this whole hallway scene I'm not standing up to. I don't care how badass of a princess I am. If that guy is threatening me, you win. Do whatever you got, right. It's like my bad, my bad big guy If that guy is threatening me you win, I'll do whatever I got Right.
Speaker 3:It's like my bad, my bad Big guy Vader had a very submissive person Like you know, Tarkin. Yeah, Some of the officers, even the guy he choked, you know, sort of like disrespected him in a way.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, he's like Vader release him and then, and then and then, and then you know, don't try to frighten us with your, your sorcerer's ways, lord vader, it's like motherfucker, you've.
Speaker 2:You've been around long enough, you know you're. That guy was old enough to remember the clone wars and he probably had served in the clone wars in some capacity. So it's like, wait, vader was like maybe you forgot who I am, let me choke this into you here real quick. But to see him, but to see him get that physical. You know, that's not something that we had seen, nor would we see. We wouldn't see, I mean until until empire, but even even an empire. It was a really a one-sided fight and he, he was still not like going off, going off you know he was toying with Luke in many ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he wasn't like showing his full straight until the end. When Luke clips him on the shoulder and I was like okay, fuck it this kid's toast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but he knew, he knew his name, he knew that that was his son. So I mean he was. I think he was still trying to not kill him. But I mean, you know, he doesn't really have a good track record for not killing children.
Speaker 3:So as we know, anakin vader. Well, does you know? Hands can be replaced easily, easily.
Speaker 2:So, all right, anyway, we're supposed to be talking about the clone wars, but uh, that's what happens when you get people who love star wars talking about star wars. So, um, season four, clone wars, uh, we've already, obviously, we've already watched seasons one through three. We've watched a few other things, but uh, I think, tony, have you, have you seen all of season four? I don't know.
Speaker 1:I know I have seen none of season four.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I know at some point in the Clone Wars series we would be in uncharted territory for you because you'd seen one through three, right?
Speaker 1:Prior to us starting to watch it, I had not seen any of it, oh.
Speaker 2:Oh, so this is all brand new to you. Okay, cool, cool, cool, excellent. So, seasons one through three, the episodes jump around quite a bit, as we, as we learned. So, despite us trying to watch everything in chronological order, dave, our lord and savior, feloni, he did kind of throw us for a loop once or twice, or 10 times. Um, season four, however it, uh, it maintains its its chronological and release order. So that's very nice. So we're going to be watching all of season four chronologically in its entirety. Plus, we're going to be watching Tales of the Empire, episode one, because chronologically that does fall in during season four. So we're gonna be watching that as well.
Speaker 2:Um, so, tony, up to this point and crash, I'm sure you could probably, uh, agree with me on this. On this, up to this point, the clone wars have been fun and, uh, there's, there's been a few heavy moments, but shit's about to get real. I mean, mean, crash, would you agree with that? I feel like the series as a whole really starts to get. This is when people start saying that the Clone Wars is dark and gritty and not a kids' show, and then they get made fun of for saying that Clone Wars is dark and gritty and not a kids show. And then they get made fun of for saying that Clone Wars is dark and gritty. I think they forget about how things kick off here with season four.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, this is, I want to say, the dividing line, but this was a part where the older audience was starting to make their voice known about. Okay, we're cool that it's animated, we like that Star Wars is for kids, but give us something a little deeper, a little darker. You know Umbara is a metaphor for darker stories, both literally and figuratively. But I think this was the season where, now that Dave sort of had a turn around the galaxy or two with you know the first couple seasons and we've established who's who and what's what, now it was time to really put a signature on it. And I think some of these, you know we were just before the show, we were kind of planning out what, what our homework was going to be, and it's really going to be a case of building around the particular arc of episodes. You know a three episode arc, a four episode arc.
Speaker 3:In some cases you think about it as a viewer that's almost a month or a month of yeah you know episode episodic television where you know you see, like the first episode, you had to wait a week for the next episode and you wait a week for the next episode. There were some cliffhangers, little ones and as a younger viewer, I'm sure it was exciting, because it's like reading a comic book and you get to that last page and it says to be continued. You can't wait for the next issue to come out. Because it's really easy now afterwards to binge watch a show and you go okay, here's plot A to plot B, to plot C. But when you've got to wait that week and you've got to talk about it with your friends in the playground and go, hey man, did you see what happened on Umbara? Or did you see what happened in the Mon Cal episode?
Speaker 3:There's some great stuff that happens there. There's some great. You're starting to see a shift in Anakin's personality. He's taking a little turn to the dark side in some spots. Your friend, your buddy, papa Palpatine, you know, is pulling on the strings in certain ways. I think you're going to find out. And this is when it really started to cook. I said that last season, but in terms of these long storm parks, I promise you, tony, it's going to get good and it's going to get good quick.
Speaker 1:I've already thought that it's been good.
Speaker 1:Don't get me wrong, I am looking forward to seeing it get a little bit more serious.
Speaker 1:Of course know, seasons one through three had their moments of seriousness, but, but sure, but I am definitely intrigued by this. Um, one thing that I am going to try to do for this season that I have done in the past is, you know, I've always been and I've talked about this before on the show that I've always been a binge watcher, like, like I rarely ever have the patience to just sit and watch an episode of something and then have to wait. But one thing that I'm going to try to do, especially for this season, is not do that, sit down, watch one episode and at least give myself like an hour to think about it and, you know, really come to terms with what I've watched and and about it. And you know, really come to terms with what I watched and and and make my, make my expectations for what's gonna come in the next one before I sit down and watch that next one and really like, like, let that suspense build up in me.
Speaker 3:So that's a good. That's a good way to look at it. I remember watching them when they first aired. It's interesting, it's great watching them without the Cartoon Network commercials, because some of these other shows they used to have was like I can feel my brain melting. But when you get on Disney Plus now and you can kind of go, okay, I'm going to watch, like we were talking about earlier, the episodes, the Mon Cal Arc one, two, three. Watch the first one. It's going to end on a cliffhanger, you know, and and enjoy the cliff. You know, enjoy the moment of I don't know what's going to happen. You know, we know certain characters have plot armor because they're going to be in revenge of the Sith, but you want to see how they get out of this and that's that's what really sells some of these arcs. We've hinted at it before. I don't want to give too much away. The Umbara arc alone is effing cinema.
Speaker 2:We hype it so much. I mean we hype it so much, but it's worth the hype.
Speaker 3:And you're going to. I remember watching it when it first aired and there's a moment that happens. I was man-tearing because you get so connected to these clones and you know the bonds they have. There's this. There's going to be a moment that's and you're out. You'll, you'll tell, you'll know what I'm talking about when you see it. It just breaks your heart.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to lie. I was ugly crying. I'm not, I'm not even gonna lie, I'm not going to lie. I'm not even going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to try to stand on airs. I was ugly crying over a cartoon, a cartoon, and I, I'm not. I'm not ashamed to admit it. I'm not ashamed to admit it because it's just like you said it.
Speaker 2:This is cinema, this is so it's. It's a master stroke of storytelling and it's for for an animated series, is it? Is it as as heavy as something like band of brothers or saving private ryan? I, I think when, when, when people are like you know, the clone wars are dark and gritty, and then you get made fun of for saying that. I, I don't think that.
Speaker 2:I don't think anyone is under any illusions that this is as heavy as some of these other IPs out there. I mean, of course, this is not Band of Brothers, this is not Saving Private Ryan. It's not that heavy, it's not that dark and preteen audience. Um, as an adult, you can still watch it and still get all the feels, especially it crashed, like you said. You know, as you start becoming emotionally invested, you know, in some of these characters. So I mean, when we, when we see that and this was 2011, 2012, I think, when this, uh, yeah, yeah, 2011, when, uh, when the season, when the season came, came out. So I was uh, I was a younger man, but uh, Weren't we all.
Speaker 2:Weren't we all but? But I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready for what we see at all through the whole. I mean, there are still some corny moments, there are some corny bits, but not nearly as many. Like, if even like. If you do a Google search, if you just go into Google and you type in Star Wars or Clone Wars, season four, and it's going to bring up the episodes and there's, you know, the little, the little thumbnail pictures, just the little thumbnails alone. It's like everything is just so dark, everything is so moody and it's just like what is about to happen. And I think it's at this point. I think dave is like all right, childhood's over like, and you'll see that in.
Speaker 3:I won't give anything specific away, but as Ahsoka grows through the Clone Wars, I found it interesting that her outlook on things gets a little dark. Things are a little more serious for her. It's not all snarky comments and quips with Anakin. It's like girl's been through some stuff and that's starting to wear on her, and you'll see that in various episodes I, I really, I really would love to get to get ashley on the show.
Speaker 2:We we talked, we spoke with ashley. I've spoken with her a few times. Um, first time I talked to her was in celebration europe and uh, she, uh, she had just launched the her universe line. So she was actually just, she was just chilling. They had a little pop-up shop inside inside the, uh, the convention center, so she was just there hanging out.
Speaker 2:I didn't even really realize who it was at first, um, um, because especially there in Europe, you know, in in Germany she's not a big deal because she doesn't do the voice, obviously, for you know, she doesn't do the, the, the German voice of of Ahsoka. So, um, but I got to, I got to talk to her again at um, uh, fan expo up there in boston and, uh, we talked to her about the show, we told her about the show and she, you know she was really interested in it because it's, you know, we're doing something positive. So I got her contact information and we got to get her on. We got, I mean, because we got to get her up to talk about Ahsoka and her journey, sherry working behind the scenes.
Speaker 3:I too for years. I've known Ashley since the beginning of her universe and, like I said my sister is like a 10th level Padawan of hers.
Speaker 3:We saw her at Steel City over the holidays and she's still amazing. She still gets a huge line of people wanting to meet her. She'll spend as much time as she can with everyone. I heard a guy grumbling in line Hi, mr D. I complained to her. Hi, I was the guy with the VIP badge, complaining about how this is just a kid's show. He had something he wanted to get signed because he was trying to complete an item with everybody. And you just tell she loves their fans. She loves the Clone Wars fans because she knows everything. She's got going for her right now with her universe, and all this voice work she's doing came from Ahsoka. She's a fan. I love talking to her as a fan because she gets us. She'd be a great person to have on the show just for tell us your tale. What do you think?
Speaker 2:I would love for us to sit down with, like her and sam at the same time, and it'll end up being a fucking two hour long show. Because you know, and sam wit, we're another one, I, he is another one who is a fan and he knows his shit. Oh, he is so smart. I feel like that guy. He's forgotten more Star Wars than I'll ever know, and Dave as well. I would love to sit down with Dave because Dave is a fan. Dave played with Star Wars toys as a kid sitting in his bedroom and now he's playing with the fucking coolest collection of star wars toys ever and I would.
Speaker 2:I don't know if we'll ever get dave on the show, but I, man, we gotta, we gotta get ashley on at least, because I, we, I do feel like, as we're, as we're going through the clone wars, we always, always seem to come back to ahsoka and her journey. Because as much, as as much as the clone wars are about anakin and the relationship between anakin and obi-wan, it's also really, really about ahsoka's journey from from little snips, you know, to this fucking badass but sad ronin that we see portrayed by rosario dawson. You know, this whole evolution of ahsoka tano is. I'm getting a little choked up. Actually, it's, it's just it. She's such an amazing character. She's such an amazing character, such a a cool, well-written character, who has arguably more growth than any other star wars character.
Speaker 2:I would say, you know, you can talk about people's redemption arcs and all that, but in terms of like this sweeping growth, I mean it's, it's ahsoka, and we're still not done. We're still not done with ahsoka. I mean there's still. There's still more stories to come. So I, oh god, I just I'm looking forward to it so much. And we get more clones. I think, up to this point too, there was a lot of complaining that you know, this is the clone wars. We're not seeing a lot of that. But, brothers and sisters, we get our fair share of clones air in season four and and different environments and different.
Speaker 3:You know there were. There were some. I'm sure tony would agree there were. There were certain stretches where you could tell things kind of got bogged down in the political weeds. Yeah, jedi, you know mystical side of things for a show called the clone wars. Every every once in a while it's good just to throw a bunch of clone troopers out there and a bunch of battle droids out there and just say go nuts yeah, and you know we we have to tell the story of anakin and obi-wan and Palpatine.
Speaker 2:those stories have to be told because they're relevant, of course, but yeah, I want to see more clones. So, tony, as someone who is fresh and new to all of this, I have to ask what are your hopes, your dreams, your expectations for season four, if we haven't already ruined it for you?
Speaker 1:No, not at all. I think. I say this at the start of every season. My biggest thing is I want to see the character growth. I want to see these arcs, I want to see how they go from where they are now to where they end up, and I just I love that aspect of it yeah, you're for a while and then we kind of get away from that because we're covering other parts of the galaxy.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, this is a great time to kind of revisit that side of the galaxy too that's just.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited like I've been like holding back re-watching this season because I want to watch it together. I want to watch together. So I'm hoping that some of our viewers and some of our listeners are also new with uh, with the show, and you're also going to be watching it together with us, um, because there's also a lot that I've forgotten, you know. So I mean, there's, you know, I've seen, I've seen the clone wars in its entirety, maybe three times, I think I've watched it, um, but but again, it's like maybe every few years I'll watch some of it, and so there's, there's a lot I've forgotten, so, and but I I'm, I'm excited for people to see it with fresh eyes, like tony right, and because I admit, you know, the last since I've come on this show, I told you off camera one time I was like I've watched these things so many times, I'm an angry binge watcher.
Speaker 3:If I was like, oh, I feel like clone wars, I gotta start at season one and just chow through each season because I'm like, oh man, I can't skip season two. There was that thing here, there was this thing here and I, you know, it's just the. There's a flow to the way that, the way this show grows over time, that I, you know you watch them. You know in in completion and see, you know, in sequence and like we talk about story arcs, the other three, four episodes that all are relevant to each other, yeah, you gotta watch all three or four of them, otherwise you might you miss that little D and and you know Dave's telling you know many. There are many movies.
Speaker 3:It's almost like shows where people online complain is oh. Online complain is oh. I can't get into, say, skeleton Crew, like we talked about in the other show, because it's only 30, 40 minutes long. Yeah, but it's eight episodes of good Star Wars content broken down because we, the audience, have such a short attention span. Now They've realized, okay, we can't just put out a trilogy of feature-length films because you people have to be on your phones that they've realized, okay, we can't just put out a trilogy of feature length films because you people have to be on your phones every 10 minutes saying what happened here. Oh, my God, did you see that? They're breaking it down for us? They're breaking it down for us like a fraction because they realize a lot of the audience can't sit through an Avengersgers endgame marathon every other day or or a five hour, lord of the rings.
Speaker 2:Oh ended director's cut I.
Speaker 3:I love peter jackson's enthusiasm for that, for that ip, but my god man, I have to pee right, and so it's like you know, I, I agree, I agree 100.
Speaker 2:I am very, very grateful and I'm very thankful that we're getting things in bite size, easily digestible chunks like this. I would. I would have liked for skeleton crew to be a little bit longer in terms of episode length closer to that 50 minute hour.
Speaker 3:You know, like basic tv kind of setup would have been nice.
Speaker 2:But it works the way it is now. Everything is very snappy with the pacing, like the Acolyte. I liked the Acolyte. I know I mean people get crucified for saying that, but not on this show, you won't. But one thing that I always probably my biggest complaint about the Acolyte was the pacing the pacing of the episodes was a little bit janky sometimes.
Speaker 3:I just re-watched that over the holidays and I agree it's a great again. It's like I said on the other show about skeleton, group acolyte was great. It would not have been a great movie up against top gun maverick or whatever was coming out that time of year where it would have been middle of the tier of the box office. It would have been a flop.
Speaker 3:You'd never hear about it, because you just can't rally the entire Star Wars fandom to go. Hey, go check out this new movie every year. I think one of the few mistakes Disney did make since their takeover was this new sequel trilogy and then the anthologies in between. A new movie a year was tough, especially when they're trying to announce a Star Wars celebration every year to promote it. That's hard on the wallet, guys.
Speaker 2:But I think Acolyte could have worked as a movie. Iolyte could have worked as a movie. I think it could have worked as a movie. I think I would have been cool watching an hour and a half two hour movie of the acolyte that ends on a cliffhanger with the prospect of maybe another movie in a couple of years. Um, but I mean I happy with with what we got and I do agree, I think that the, the, the TV series doing it in that format it's just easier. I mean, each episode costs as much as a whole fucking movie. So it's not like they're they're skimping out on anything.
Speaker 3:But and compare that to strange new worlds. I'm watching season two of that now, so good, yeah. And that's another tricky thing where there's so many streaming services now that I think part of the problem. You know, people look at the I don't know how they do streaming ratings, but you know the. The word is that the, the ratings for, like, a show like skeleton crew, are low. Well, it's low because there's so many platforms now, there's so many streaming shows now, that people can't.
Speaker 3:You got to commit to something and exclude everything else because I don't know about you, I don't have the attention span to watch you know one show and then jump to another show, then jump to another. Yeah, and yeah, I'm a, I'm a bender, I do like to watch. You know when I watch, like I said, when, when I watch Clone Wars, I start season one and I don't stop till the end Because I just I want to take it all in. I don't like jumping timelines and stuff like that. But even with Strange New Worlds, I think they only have maybe I think it was nine or eight or nine episodes, something like that. Yeah, for the kind of production budget that show episodes something like that. Yeah, for the kind of production budget there.
Speaker 3:You know that show is like top tier. You know those sets are immaculate 10 and the amount of you know same. And that's what happened with accolade. They wanted feature-length, top tier looking production quality. But you're breaking it down into short. You know shorter chapters for everybody to stop and and you know what's trending, what's tweet? I don't think the audience has the attention span they did back in the original trilogy days where you could take two years off between star wars films no, we got it.
Speaker 2:I mean, they got to keep. I mean, and we and you know, there's a lot of hate on disney, star wars again, because of dei and wokeness or whatever they want to complain about. But, but, like, we have to be realistic Disney is in the business of making money. That's, that's their business. Their business isn't entertaining children, their business isn't entertaining people. Their, their job is making money through entertainment, you know. So they're gonna, they're not gonna do things just for the sake of entertaining you. They're, they're good. There has to be money behind it and they have to be smart about it.
Speaker 2:And you know, I think that, like with the acolyte, I think that the acolyte was, it was poorly marketed, um, I think it tried too hard to be too many things and didn't always get everything right, um, but I think that they, they saw that it was hard. It's like, um, like when people talk about, like, if you want to start a youtube channel, for example, and they say, you know if you're, if you start a youtube channel about cars, and then you know, one day you get, uh, you know, a cool hat in the mail and you decide to do an unboxing about the hat. You know, your. Your viewers are used to seeing stuff about cars. You do car stuff, not hat stuff, so if you're all over the place, there's nothing for them to grab on to. And I think that was the problem with the acolyte is like there wasn't, like what do I, what do I grab on to here?
Speaker 3:but with skeleton through do you jump up, do you invest yourself emotionally in this, as we find out later. Flawed jedi and who you know kind of, in this, as we find out later. Flawed Jedi, who kind of got a little obsession here he made a mistake.
Speaker 3:And you're like do you make that your lead character? Do you make the assassin twin who's kind of abusive to her sister when they were little? We have to stay together. I will kill you if you don't. If you try to leave me, I'll burn the house down. Is that your focal point? There were a lot of people that weren't the focal point of that show and there was nothing really to kind of who was this story about? Was this about May? Was this about OSHA? Was this about Seoul?
Speaker 2:It was about all of them. Yeah, and that was. I think that was one of the problems. It was like giving us like way too much to try to absorb. You know, again, the show, the show was not without flaw, you know, but that doesn't mean that it was worthless, it was still. It still had its moments. I, I'm actually very disappointed. We're not going to find out, you know, more about darth smiley, more about the twins? Um, was that plagas at the end? I mean we're not going to know now. I mean we might find out in novelization or comics maybe, but we're not going to see it on the screen anytime soon, unfortunately. But, um, I, uh, but skeleton crew man, they, they knocked it out of the park.
Speaker 2:I mean they knocked it out of the park. There's nothing. I have no criticism at all. I can find something to criticize and critique and everything. I have no criticism I have. No, there's nothing. You know what. I have no criticism, I have. No, there's nothing. There's like you know what, in in uh, I guess it was episode six when they're on, when they're on the resort world and they get shot out of those tubes and they're walking around in the snow and nobody really complains about being cold or anything. I mean I guess I can complain about that. I mean that's not, you know. Or when they're on that moon and they go to see kim how is their gravity and atmosphere on this, you know?
Speaker 2:but that's reaching so hard that I'm looking for a reason to be angry basically, I'm looking for a reason to be, and I can't, I just can't find one. I just cannot.
Speaker 3:I cannot find a reason to be mad at skeleton crew and and this was the same way with clone wars Again, I remember back in the days, on the fan forums and even within the costume group, you and I Tommy and I could have an interesting conversation about that. But on the forums, even within the groups, there was a bit around this time of the season for the show there was still a little resentment about this being animated. There were people who were diehard Original Trilogy fans, who just couldn't process the idea that Star Wars was animated. Stormtroopers were better than Clone Troopers because Stormtroopers were real and even costume-wise.
Speaker 3:When Tommy moved back here to Ohio, I was giddy because the first thing I saw was he had a Captain Rex and we were doing events. And I'm a pilot, a rebel pilot or I'd be a Jedi, but I could interact with the kid. I wasn't very in character. I was sort of that bridge between the normals and the ones who try to play act. But I would talk to the kid oh, did you see Clone Wars this week? Man, yeah, where's Rex? And I'd have to make some excuse. We used to do a laser tag event. We'd get the guys dressed up, they'd put on laser tag vests and we'd let the kids shoot us. For you would have been a rock star. I would have paid money to borrow your armor just to be double wielding, captain rex. You know, in a laser tag arena.
Speaker 2:We, we did that. I mean, we're getting way off topic here, but yeah, that's okay. When, when we were um, prior to moving back to the states, we were stationed in germany and we did this thing um years ago, years and years ago, the 501st, and I'm sure you know, they did this thing called shoot a trooper and, uh, get some nerf guns and you, you shoot at people dressed up like stormtroopers for charity, you know. With the, with a rise in gun, they decided to move away from that and the German garrison said we can't do something called shoot a trooper and we can't do anything where we're encouraging people to shoot at our people. So we ended up having to do it without the approval of the garrison.
Speaker 2:So we ended up having to do it. We couldn't have any 501st or garrison merchandise or logo or is there anything like that showing. So we had to be basically like independent contractor nerds and we called it the Galactic Showdown and I did that. I kitted up in Rex and we got people with Nerf guns to shoot at me. They paid money but we ended up raising. We did it over a weekend and we ended up raising over $10,000 for the local Fisher house.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, fisher, house oh, wow, and that was like we were. We did it on base inside of the bx and, yeah, we raised over 10 grand, me, me, louie and a couple of our other friends. Uh, we did we. We we kidded up and um, the german garrison was mad they didn't want us to do it. But we, we can do whatever we want in our costumes that we bought and paid for, and you can't say anything about it, as long as we don't have any 501st branding, which we didn't. But one person showed up wearing their, uh, their 501st jacket they weren't participating.
Speaker 2:They were just there. They were just they were. They weren't were just there. They were just they were. They weren't even a handler, they were just somebody out of, out of costume that they showed up. They had their 501st jacket on and they tried to. They tried to, um, they wanted to kick me out.
Speaker 2:Um, I ended up getting suspended for another fraternity brother right, I ended up getting like hit with a six month suspension, um, because I went against the Garrison CO. You know, like most Garrison COs, they're so fucking full of themselves. Anyway, I'm not going to.
Speaker 3:Anyways, tying this back to the point we were talking about.
Speaker 2:Anyway, let me just say I love the 501st, I love the Rebel Legion, I love the Mando Mercs for what they represent. I love the fact that they're charity organizations and I love the fact that they are working to reach out and interface with the community. These costume clubs do a lot of really, really good work. They raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for charity. So, despite the, the individual little power trips and things like that that go on um as organizations, I, I, I believe in, in their, I the ideals, I believe in the, the concept behind the clubs the concept is great.
Speaker 3:The execution gets a little murky and tommy, and I will be starting a podcast where we will spill tea on both sides of the oh shit, okay look at tony's about to check out.
Speaker 2:he was like all right, I'm not in 501st, I don't have a kid.
Speaker 1:I'm not, but I like the stories. It's fun.
Speaker 3:There's a certain element of when these shows aired versus how they were received at the time by the fandom, by the groups. I was kind of saying there were people who were for lack of a better term Princess Leia obsessed. They hated Clone Wars, because who cares about Padme, who cares about Anakin? It was always how it affected them. I remember, like I said, during the prequel trilogy, the fan forums, fanforcenet, kind of forums where you just the internet, sort of opened the doors to the entire fandom and it wasn't just your circle of nerds that you talked to, it was some creepy guy, I kid you.
Speaker 3:Not short story, we had a guy here in Cleveland. I was the head of the Cleveland chapter and I had to be Mr Polite to everybody, even if you were the most rude, obnoxious person in the world. There was a guy. We called him Pervert Scott, if that gives you an idea. He wasn't even a member of the group, he was somebody's plus one that they kept bringing, and we got a private screening for all the work we'd done for at the opening weekend for, uh, revenge of the Sith, the movie manager said hey, your last night here, you guys go into theater 13, it's on us. Well, somebody yeah, one of the guys. One of our members brought pervert scott to my private screening and I'm sitting there watching and all I hear is all these rude under-his-breath like strip club creepy guy comments he's making about Padme and I'm just like dude. If I didn't have to be the designated nice guy, I'd be throwing your ass out of here, pervert.
Speaker 1:Scott.
Speaker 3:The adventures of Pervert Scott yeah yeah, and that's the problem with the fandom menace. Over time it sort of evolved into that where on twitter and other platforms, where the more toxic you could be drew more toxicity to you. You know the the sequel trilogy got a lot of Hate, gets clicks, and when you go on a forum and say how much you hate Rey, she's a Mary Sue. Blah, blah, blah. My mom, hate me. Whatever that draws attention from other dudes who also want to be, they want to seek attention for that and they'll play off of their worst instincts, whereas people who actually genuinely enjoy Star Wars whether it's if you find something like we say on the intro, whether you like it or not, whether you think it's good or not enjoy. I always say to people coming into Star Wars like Tony he's watching Clone Wars for the first time enjoy the ride. There may be an arc that doesn't quite play for you as well. You've heard us talk about the Umbara arc.
Speaker 3:That particular episode may not hit with you as well, as it does. Enjoy the ride. I should put on a t-shirt, you know. You know, phil, our episode is prologue for, for, you know, dave filoni, because that's what he'll take a little thing that he, you know, he played with in season two. And now, all of a sudden, it's a bigger deal and we're going to find out this year with the mandalorians. There's going to be something that's going to come back, that has ramifications all the way into the Mando verse, if you get my meaning Boca tan.
Speaker 2:So, and speaking of that, we need to get Katie on the show too, so we'll have to reach out to her. So, yeah, I, I don't know, I, I. One of the main reasons I wanted to do this show was just for the positivity. We need more of it. The fandom menace is still out there. They've been quiet, but they'll be back. There was one individual again. I don't want to name him, but he is a Star Wars theorist. He has a lot of theories about Star Wars.
Speaker 1:He knows who he is and anybody else who knows who he is.
Speaker 2:Fuck that guy. Yeah, but he said, he said something when, when, when the accolade, when it was, when it was, uh, it was announced that there wouldn't be a second season. His one of his first comments was you know, thankfully, thankfully, we're not gonna get a second season. And here's, here's why I have a problem with that. And then we'll, we'll wrap for the night, but you say, thankfully that we're not getting another season. You're saying, thankfully we're not getting more Star Wars. And that's the problem that I have, because it's like, yes, for you, the Acolyte was awful, it was terrible, it goes against everything that you believe in and you hated it from top to bottom. But there's a dozen other Star Wars properties you can engage with that you do love. Dozen other star wars properties you can engage with that you do love. But now, by saying, thankfully we're not getting more acolyte, what about those people that were drawn to star wars because of the acolyte? What about the people that were actually fans of the acolyte before they were fans of star wars? You know, they saw the acolyte, for whatever reason, they were drawn to it and they loved it, and then, because of that, it opened up this whole new world of star Wars for them. Are they going to stay? Were they only here for the acolyte? And now that it's gone, they're gone too. So you know, never, ever ever be thankful that we're not getting more star wars. Always be thankful for the star wars that we get.
Speaker 2:You don't have to like it. I don't like all star wars. I don't like, I don't like the sequels. I don't hate the sequels, but I don't like them. They're, they're okay, you know. I don't like, you know, every episode of the clone wars, you know. But I'm thankful that we're getting something. I'm thankful that we're getting star wars, that we have star wars, because what I don't like, somebody else is gonna love it and that's gonna turn them into a lifelong star wars fan and they're not gonna like the stuff that I like. You know they, they, they're gonna on the hallway scene and I'm over here like, yeah, so, but that's it on the hallway scene.
Speaker 3:But come back for something else that's star wars related I don't think a lot of people I should say a lot of people, uh, people who make comments like that, I feel, and even us original trilogy generation types, have sort of forgotten what the dark times really were like. You know, we talk about how there was a gap from return of the jedi to the beginning of the expanding universe with the books, and then eventually, and then and then and then. But when you look at it chronologically, the dark times was a big gap of time where all of a sudden, star wars is over. I mean, there was no new movies. Uh, droids and ewoks were a quick blip as a cartoon, that's it.
Speaker 2:And we were making our own stories. We had the action figures, we had the toys, we were that's and that's how we kept going and we were told.
Speaker 3:I'm amazed how many people I've been I'm still friends with from like grade school, high school, even college, who I was casual friends with. But yeah, we didn't really. Yeah, like I was like the things we didn't connect with. I find out later in life. Oh wait, you like my star wars, but you're a star wars fan. Why didn't we talk about this when we were 10, 11, 12? Oh right, because star wars was over and only you know the nerds. Before nerd culture became okay to be popular again, there was that time where you know, we were all told you know, shortly after returning okay, now it's time to grow up. Dude, you know cool kid things, but you're cool, that's yeah, but you're right like star wars fell off.
Speaker 2:Star wars. It never really went away, I mean, but it but it did end up like in in my toy box. You know star wars got replaced with transformers and gi joe and you know I was using stormtroopers, you know, as fodder for you know transformers, I mean you know the decepticons were stomping on you know luke skywalker and kicking yoda across my bedroom and so it's like they were. It fell off. It fell off and then through the comics. But even the comics were wacky because of the weird licensing. I mean, if you look at some of the old school Star Wars comics, I mean Luke's wearing green pants and Vader's helmet is funky colors and there's reasons behind that, and that's a whole other episode we could talk about. Why marvel star wars comics look as freaking psychedelic as they do. There is a reason behind that, but we won't get into that because we are we're wrapping up for another time for another time.
Speaker 2:Crash what you had something to say. It looked like what else you got just kind of agreeing.
Speaker 3:Like I said, you know, the clone wars were at a specific time where a new generation of fans were growing into being Star Wars fans. Yeah, I would hate for somebody to says, oh, I'm so glad the acolyte failed, so we don't ever see that. Yeah, if somebody had said that about Clone Wars in season one and we kind of talked about this when we were rewatching the show, that you know if, if, if, if there'd had been a theorist around back then that was making streaming videos, bashing season one, you wouldn't get season two, and then the amount of great Star Wars content just storytelling that would have been lost.
Speaker 2:And then Rebels came along and people were mad about Rebels because of the art style. But again, that's a whole other show.
Speaker 3:A whole other show.
Speaker 2:A whole other show because I was one of those people. I was like Rebels that looks dumb and I didn't like it. I hated it first season and then I was like, oh wait, that wasn't good. Now, rebels is probably one of my favorite shows. So anyway, hey, for Christmas I, I was like, oh wait, that wasn't good.
Speaker 3:Now, rebels is probably one of my favorite shows, so anyway, hey, for Christmas I didn't get a lot because I got a new computer. You know what would have been a really great thing to get? I need some Star Wars safe space merch. Where do I?
Speaker 2:get that. That was a really nice segue. I mean, I had it on my list here, I was going to do it. But thank you for uh, for doing the uh, the, the pimping early so you can head on over to star wars, to star wars. Jeez, I can't even head over to circleofnerdscom slash merch and, as you can see, uh t to the only there is wearing that really sweet star wars safe space hoodie and uh. So yeah, crash, you can go over there. We've got the swarzy curious shirts and hoodies and we've got the uh, the star wars safe space logo. We've got some other stuff, other goodies, on there too. So, yeah, check it out circle nerdscom slash march for all of your nerdy apparel needs. So thank you for the plug and I guess that's your not so subtle way of saying let's go ahead and wrap it up. Just tell me how I can. I appreciate you, I appreciate you. Well then, maybe next time you should be the. We'll make you the brand ambassador and you can, you can do the pimping.
Speaker 3:Okay, if, tony, he's got to keep the Holocron I could be the merch for Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right, you're the pimper of the merch. So yeah, tony's the keeper of the holocron. You're the pimper of the merch, got it? So next week, there's the holocron right there. There it is For all of our listeners. You can see it All right. So for next week homework, watch the Clone Wars Season 4, episodes 1, 2, and 3. So we've got a very interesting way that we're breaking down the clone wars this season. So if you head on over to our website uh, circle of nerdscom, slash the sws show you'll be able to see our roadmap for the rest of our our season. So head on over there, follow us, of course.
Speaker 3:On all the socials and bring a snorkel, or it's gonna get wet.
Speaker 2:Follow us, of course, on all the socials. And bring a snorkel or it's going to get wet.
Speaker 3:What's that For the homework? Bring a snorkel.
Speaker 2:It's going to get wet. Oh yeah, those first few episodes Especially. Yeah, that's what she said. Oh, wow, oh man, wait, hold on, there we go. I knew I had the button somewhere. So, yeah, there we go. I knew I had the button somewhere. So, um, yeah, so check us out on all the social medias. Uh, at the sws show. I think we are probably more active on tiktok than we are anywhere else. Um, but we're putting out clips of the show everywhere. So, whatever your favorite platform is, you can check us out on there. And, of course, we're on youtube. Uh, we do post full video episodes of our show on YouTube and, again, that's at the SWS show. Or you can listen to us on your favorite podcast platform. So that's going to do it. You guys got anything on the way out?
Speaker 3:Anything, anything, no, like I said, we're just getting excited about the season. This is going to be a fun ride.
Speaker 2:It is going to be a fun ride. All right, absolutely All right, looking forward to it, all right. So thank you so much for tuning in this week and, of course, as always, a very special thank you to all of our active duty military members and veterans for their service and sacrifice. Uh, I absolutely 100 appreciate that. And, as always, of course, star warriors, if no one does anything nice for you, do something nice to yourself, and we're going to see you guys next week. Bye.
