Clone Wars Rewatch-Season 5: Episodes 17-20

The Jedi turned their backs… and everything changed.

This week on Star Wars: SafeSpace, we break down The Clone Wars Season 5 finale arc (Episodes 17–20: Sabotage, The Jedi Who Knew Too Much, To Catch a Jedi, The Wrong Jedi) — the moment Ahsoka Tano is betrayed by the Jedi Order and walks away for good.

👉 Did the Jedi deserve to fall?
 👉 Was Ahsoka the only one who saw the truth?
 👉 And is this the moment that doomed Anakin Skywalker?

We connect the dots between Ahsoka’s wrongful accusation, the Jedi Council’s failure, Barriss Offee’s actions, and Anakin’s growing distrust of the Order — all leading directly into Revenge of the Sith.

This wasn’t just Ahsoka’s story.
 This was the beginning of the end for the Jedi.

Follow us on social media @TheSWSShow. Once we get our poodoo together, you'll find show clips, behind-the-scenes shenanigans, Star Wars news, memes, updates, and more!

For questions about affiliate opportunities, guest booking, public appearances, or collaboration, reach out to us at sws@circleofnerds.com

Transcript

Cold Open And Heartbreak Setup

SPEAKER_03 0:01

All right, let me get that energy back. This is something, this is nothing, this is something, this is nothing. All right, so been framed. The Jedi turned their backs Anakin Spiraling, and we're asking the question that nobody wants to answer. It's the heartbreaking conclusion of the Clone War, season five. This week on your Star Wars safe space. Stick around. Unbelievable. Hey there, Star Warriors. Welcome to take two of Star Wars Safe Space, your non-toxiclow sodium Star Wars show that doesn't make you feel bad for not knowing that Ahsoka was almost killed off in her original Clone Wars arc. That is correct. Early drafts had her dying at the end of the series during Order 66, but Dave Faloni and George Lucas changed course because she'd become too important to fans and to Anakin's story, as we clearly saw this week. So whether you're a hardcore fan or just a little swarzy curious, this is your Star Wars safe space. We are the circle of nerds, and we do absolutely love Star Wars, even if we don't always like it. So let's meet the crew, shall we? Hailing from Parts Unknown, it is T to the Oni.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Welcome back to the galaxy, everybody. It is a sad day in this galaxy, but we are gonna pull through it.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Yes, yes, we will, because there's always hope, right? Always, always hope. And captain of the infamous Parma Flyer, it's crash.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Hey everybody, we got a lot to go over, so let's get those last foils locked and get at it.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Yeah, we oh man, we do. It's a lot. Heavy, heavy stuff, heavy stuff, and star of stage and screen. It is the sensational sherry.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Hey everyone. Wow, you guys are really nerds, man. I'm just kidding. I'm just fucking with y'all. I'm half asleep, y'all. I know, but I'm here.

Star Wars Celebration News Roundup

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Coming back from your world war, world war, worldwind tour of uh taking a nap on the couch. That's all right. After I watch the show. After you watch the show. That's all right. So, what are we doing here? Our mission is to watch all of the Canon Star Wars films and TV shows in chronological order, breaking them down, connecting the dots, and learning more about Star Wars and maybe a little bit about ourselves too, along the way. So, a word of warning to all you would-be Star Warriors out there, there will be spoilers. So, if you didn't do homework this week, be uh be forewarned. There's gonna be some spoilers. So, this week we are gonna be discussing what was supposed to be the actual series finale of the Clone Wars. This was supposed to be it. They were gonna wrap it up on this incredibly cruel cliffhanger. Ahsoka walking away, beautiful shot, walking away from Anakin. Uh even though we're on take two, I'm still feeling this in my heart. Um, so this arc is a perfect example uh to explore the moral collapse of the Jedi, Ahsoka's identity crisis, and how all of this, specifically this moment, really sets up for the events of Revenge of the Sith and even beyond that. Um, it's a tragedy for Ahsoka, of course, but it's also a red flag for the entire Jedi idea, like you know, this idea of having this, you know, far, far light side organization, and we see how it can become corrupted from the inside. Um, and we are gonna be asking the big question did the Jedi deserve to fall? So that's something that people don't want to talk about, they don't want to deal with, but uh, did they deserve to fall? We're gonna talk about that. But first, we have some news coming out of Star Wars Celebration, Holocron Master Keeper, Jedi Master T to the Oni, Jedi Master Baloney.

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Please take it away. There is a whole lot of news from from uh celebration. Uh, there's way too much for me to be able to touch on here without going way into overtime, especially since we're on take two, so we're just gonna keep it short and simple. We're only five minutes in. It's it's good. New projects. Um, there's a brand new Star Wars Maul Shadow Lord series that's gonna be coming, animated series. Uh bringing back Sim Witw to play the role of Maul. Um, obviously, we love uh the character of Maul, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing that. Uh, there's also, of course, the new uh starfighter TV uh movie that's gonna be coming out with Gosling. Um, obviously, we don't know a whole lot about that, but the people that are involved are fantastic people, so yeah, uh definitely gonna look forward to that. That's a big get.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Shane Levy, Sean Levy and Ryan Gosling. You know, he you know, those are two big names in the industry right now for them to sign on to a Star Wars project like this.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

Yeah, that's huge. 100%. And Sean Levy, of course, uh directing Deadpool. Him and uh him and yeah, yeah, he's so funny. Just by himself, he's funny, but him and Ryan Reynolds, man, uh doing Deadpool and Wolverine, they're like best best besties. So maybe we'll get a I don't know. I mean, Disney owns you know Deadpool. Do you think uh we'll have hilarious? We'll have an incursion into the Star Wars universe.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

I don't I hope I don't know. I don't I hope not. Like I was really rooting for the Galga Dot Rogue Squadron idea, and this one supposedly is gonna be set post-rise of Skywalker, so it's gonna be like more in the Podameron era of X-Wing pilots. Um possibly, you know, that's my say it could be just generic starfighters. We don't know. There used to be a a great PS2 game called uh Starfighter that covered all sorts of it was centered around a Jedi Starfighter, but but there were other characters, and so you can see a non-New Republic uh character involved. Um, but right now everybody's kind of hoping it's this is the evolution of what Rogue Squadron could have been into more of a yeah future timeline.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

We'll see. And you know what? Gal would make a good uh good Mara Jade. Another conversation for another time, though. Tony, please continue.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Uh there's also some game news. Uh, we've got um an expansion coming for uh Star Wars Outlaws. Uh that's gonna be dropping next month. That looks like May 15th. And that the official title for that is called A Pirate's Fortune. And of course, that means we are bringing in none other than our favorite pirate Hondo, our boy Hondo. It's gonna be a lot of fun. So, for those outlaw players out there, and this might even get me on board with that. We'll see. Uh, there's also a new it is listed as a turn-based, uh turn-based tactics game called Zero Company, um, which there's gonna be a bigger announcement on tomorrow. So, I don't have a lot of information about it, but it looks like something I would be very interested in. So, looking forward to seeing more of that. And then lastly, uh, there is a third season of Young Jedi Adventures that's gonna be dropping this fall. More drinking game activity for us. Absolutely, and we can definitely have a lot of fun with that. Of course, like I said, there's a lot more news than just that. If you want to check out more news, feel free to hit up our blog page and at circle of nerds.com. There you go. Hey, I did something out more.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

All right, awkward pause, but that's okay.

Mandalorian And Grogu Cast Talk

SPEAKER_00 7:50

And and we know the news, the latest project is gonna coming up, is gonna be The Mandalorian and Grogu, the movie. Uh the thing that really got my attention was we heard we've heard that Sigourney Weaver was joining the cast, but we didn't know much about her. Uh, turns out she's gonna end up being part of the new republic, uh, a former rebellion star fighter pilot. So cool. More X-Wings, and just seeing Sigourney Weaver in the orange flight suit uh was a picture of her and John Favreau and some of the new droids uh that are gonna be seen in the movie. It's just cool to see somebody of that again. Major star power joining the Star Wars universe.

SPEAKER_03 8:28

That's gonna be a real have they wrapped that, or are they still are they still filming or are they in post?

SPEAKER_00 8:34

They might be in reshoots or posts. Like it's it's okay, you know, it's coming out next year.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Yeah, 2027.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

So they're probably in post at this point, they're probably in post at this point, but they could always do reshoots if they need to add on stuff because people always freak fans like on the internet freak out whenever they hear the idea of reshoots. Those are the kids that like turn turned in the first draft of their paper they wrote on the bus on the way to school. Like reshoots happen because people see things and they need to fill in gaps, tweak things.

SPEAKER_03 9:03

You know, it doesn't mean the production's in chaos, it just means somebody's actually putting some time and some craftedness, which is usually a good thing, and they'll show it to test audiences too, and they'll say, Hey, this works, this doesn't work, because at the end of the day, there's you know, they still want to make money. So, I mean, they're gonna run it by test audiences. Yeah, reshoots happen, it's it's not a big deal. I mean, how George was reshooting scenes from a new hope, I think, like a month before it released. I mean, they were really, really down to the wire on that.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Well, the effect shots alone, they were running down to the wire. You've watched that new season of the industrial light and magic documentary. You know, they go into I mean, those guys were like cutting it close, really close.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

It's like they were bringing the the the cut film like to the theater while people were lined up around the line, not that close, not that close on, right? Like they've got like the first three reels done, and it's like the fourth reel is still being edited. Like, wait, wait, okay. Um, so can we can we just talk about speaking of the Mandalorian and Grogu, and then we're gonna get into the show here in a minute. But can we talk about Pedro Pascal, please? This this Joe, yeah, Daddy Daddy Pedro, he stays working, he stays working, Fantastic Four, Last of Us, Star Wars, and uh whatever. I don't know what else he's doing, but I mean a million things. He stays working.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

Holy crap, he's the hotness right now.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

And and don't forget, you know, he's yeah, people like this make a big deal about him. There are two other guys that do the bulk of the heavy lifting on Mandalorian, especially in the later season. When he's got the bucket, I mean, he's really at this point a glorified voice actor. It was a big deal to do you know, they do film scenes with him in the suit. It was like when they take the helmet off and it's gotta be him, but he's got stunt guys doing it. Brandon Wayne and I can't remember Latif, something the guy that do the the fighting, the stunts. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Plus the gunplay one does the martial arts. They're the real stars of that that show because 90% of the time, that's those are the dudes you see on screen.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

We should get them on the show. Pedro's eye candy for the ladies.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Uh okay, I'll give you that.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Not just for the ladies, not just the ladies.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

I mean, I like looking at at Papa Pedro too.

SPEAKER_00 11:19

And and if you anybody who's been watching the uh the live stream stage from Celebration, which is a great thing to even watch in person, having been to Celebration, you just hang out there and they shoot a lot of stuff uh the first couple days, and then over over the course of the weekend they'll replay them for people like us who missed it, but even seeing it live in person or or as it's airing, like on like for the people who aren't watching us right now or waiting for the live stream to start.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Yeah, I I just downloaded a Star Wars app, and uh just for news, it came up, and I was like, this is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

So him and uh Dave Caloni were on stage together, and and he's just it's great seeing these guys go to an event like Celebration and see the positive side of the fandom. You know, you get all kinds of hate and negativity on the internet and and YouTube channel other YouTube channels out there, but it there's nothing like going to celebration and just being filled in a room full of people that love what you do.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Yes, and there's there's uh there's an individual um who shall not be named, but uh we we know him as uh a member of the fandom menace. He comes up with all these crazy Star Wars theories. Uh, we won't mention who he is, but uh recently yeah, fuck that guy. But recently he posted a video. I'm not watching it because I'm not gonna give him the views or the engagement, but essentially he goes to a Star Wars themed amusement park and gets thrown out and kind of brags about it. So it's like you're a you're supposedly a Star Wars fan and you're doing everything you can to be miserable in the fandom. Just so just stop. I'm you know, I mean, like do something else, like five.

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Find something else to do with your time other than engaging in the worst parts of the fandom to just because you're monetizing it. I said he also has booths now at cons. Uh he's a fan expo cleaner. What really?

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Yeah, he's schlocking his saber.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

I mean, yeah, these are actual like look lightsabers from the show, these aren't custom originals or anything. Um got cheap costume part, yeah. Like you want a robe, I'll sell you a robe, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

All that's overpriced, all that's overpriced.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

All yeah, fan groups and people can make way better stuff than he does. I'm the only reason I don't think Lucas hasn't sent him a cease and desist is he wants the attention. So once again, let's say to our Lord and Savior Dave Loney, fuck that guy.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Well, and he's he's blacklisted from everywhere now. I mean, this guy, this guy, what a fucking idiot. He was in a position to literally be invited to everything. I mean, I mean, because of he has such a large following, unfortunately, you know Lucasfilm and Disney would have invited him to red carpet events, celebrations. He could have got a free. There is there's another group. Uh, it's a husband and wife team. I think it's Star Wars Explains. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

I watch their stuff. They're pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Yeah, they're great. And they're they're kind of like the light side version of this other fool. They get invited to places, they get sent boxes of swag when um when skeleton crew came out. They got sent this big box full of really cool things from the skeleton crew show. They get invited out to red carpet events, and then this dude hates on them for that. Like, it's like, you know, it's like I am so grateful that that I can find joy in Star Wars. Yeah, I don't like all of it. Some of it's some of it's trash. There's a lot of stuff in Star Wars that's complete trash, but there's a lot of stuff in Star Wars that's just great. And the overall message of Star Wars, no matter what what iteration you're watching, whatever property you're watching, the theme is always consistent. Hope. Hope and cautionary tales. You know, this is what fascism looks like. Beware, don't do this thing, don't be a dick, be nice, and don't go to extremes on either side. Lit lead a balanced life, always have hope no matter how dark things are. That's the message to Star Wars. And I fucking love it. And I'm so grateful that we can be happy in that. How miserable, what kind of a miserable existence is this guy? I'm sure that he's gotta hawk his his cheap overpriced sabers. It's clickbait. It's clickbait. Of course it's clickbait, but he's losing monetization.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Oh, is he?

SPEAKER_03 15:45

Oh, yeah, yeah, because his stuff is like so toxic and so volatile, you know, he's he's lost fans, he's lost monetization. You know, I'm sure that he's gotten hit with some cease and desists that he's not going to talk about, but but yeah, it's he's he's built this entire life and he's built his wealth off of being miserable and capitalizing on the miseries of others because he wants to antagonize those of us who love Star Wars for for for better or for worse. We love it. And he wants to antagonize these people, and he he earns money and finds joy in that, and that that's disgusting to me. You know, it's like you want to make a buck, you want to do some clickbait thumbnails, whatever. That's fine. I get it. Everybody, you know, it's it's hard to make money in on YouTube, it's hard to make money in the internet space. I get it, but you don't have to make other people miserable, and you don't have to prompt.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And you're just dragging the fandom down in general. Oh, you're define a lot of these before a lot of this like toxic fandom started in Star Wars. I mean, you know, I I I talk all the time about how during the prequel shows, yeah, there were people who were complaining about George Lucas, you know, George Lucas ruined my childhood. Hey, grow up and get a life, you know, and you just start them moved on. But now we've gotten a point where people are literally making being an angry Star Wars fan a job option. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, dude, there are better things to do with your free time.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

It's not worth it because we have there, we are whether you are a Star Wars grifter, you know, or if you are a Star Wars shill or simp, as they like to call people that have positive views, it doesn't matter what side of the Star Wars fandom you're on. To the eyes of the other 99% of the people out there, you're still a fucking nerd and a loser living in your mom's basement, watching movies, arguing about movies that involve space wizards and laser swords. So, because we're getting all of this external hatred, you know, and bullying from outside sources, why do we want to try to destroy it from within? Like we're a family, we're a Star Wars family. So, why can't we? We don't have to agree on everything, of course, but why do we have to tear each other down? And that's what I don't understand. And I don't I don't see the point of that.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

And and it's even affecting the actors. Uh John Boy, I just saw him last week at CC We2. He was great in his panel talking about how it's great, you know, be being in a room with people that enjoy Star the vibe you get off of that. He just came back from Galaxy's Edge himself. He went with it on his own and wrote the rise of you know, the rise of resistance that he's on. I asked him, I was talking about that in the panel, and uh Kelly Marie Trant. They changed, you know, the the talk the fandom menace chased her off of Twitter because god forbid there be an Asian girl in Star Wars, yeah. And now so much time has passed where she's like, you know, I'm see we're we're seeing you're hearing the positive side of the fandom trying to take it back the narrative. I'd come back to it. Yeah, they're open to coming back to a future project because now with this you know Ray movie coming, it's like look, the sequel trilogy had fans, they just can't shout as loud as the grifters and the out there and we need to and we need to make our voice heard for the the positive side of the fandom, right? Like as if there were a Star Wars safe space, as it were.

Clone Wars Arc First Reactions

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Yeah, imagine that. Imagine that. All right, so speaking of Star Wars safe space, let's get into it, shall we? Go for it. So this this week, this arc was brutal. Started a little slow, but it was it was a you know plot building, you know. So we we needed that first episode that was a little slow just to kind of set the foundations. It was a caper. Um, it was it, you know, again, if you're if you're into procedural crime dramas, it was kind of like uh you know, kind of like CSI or bum bum bum bum right, but star warzy. So but we needed that in order to launch the rest of this. And by the end of these these four episodes, it was absolutely heartbreaking. Again, that last shot with Anakin and Ahsoka outside the temple. I you can't see, but I have literal goosebumps. It's just a beautiful shot, it's just so well done, and everything about it was just painful. I, you know, watching it when Sherry and I were watching it, and she was when when the when they were in the council chamber and the council was like, Hey, our bad, come on back. Sherry was like, you fuck you, fuck you, fuck you. You're cool, fuck you. I'm out. Yeah, it was 100% bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 20:25

It was 100% happening now. Are you kidding me? In real life, yeah.

Did The Jedi Deserve Ahsoka

SPEAKER_03 20:29

So you know what? So so Sherry, this first question. I want to start with you um because you you had some feelings about this. Um Ahsoka's loyalty to the order is absolute, it is absolute. There's no question about that. She, you know, she has you know, she questions some certain things, her loyalty is absolute. The Jedi Order, not so much. Did the Jedi ever deserve Ahsoka?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

No, no, the my thing is for playing. Yeah, no, it's just like because see I the force and the Jedi, I think they're great. Like, I think overall what they're trying to do is great, but again, it's just indoctrinating children into learning something a certain way um that is not correct, and it's it's not it's about themselves, it's not about again, it's it goes right back to them, you know. We're we're almighty, we're the ones that can, you know, we have the force, we can do this, blah blah blah. They don't use it to be honest, they don't use it for good that often, especially within this series. I mean, they're warriors, they're not supposed to be warriors, they're supposed to be peacekeepers. Um, you know, it's it's like if monks went out and started fighting. Yeah, like are you are you kidding me? Like that's that's not the whole point is peace um and balance and and but again it's all about power um and control in a lot of a lot of ways yeah they want to control how they use the force because they feel that it's wrong like if you do if you love someone if you you know what I mean like if you create attachments if you do this and that and blah blah blah and instead of just showing them how to actually create an attachment without using anger and I think Ahsoka has already mastered that yeah she it's that balance for her yeah and I and I think for her it was that was the last straw she I think she was already having feelings coming up to this just about certain things and um but my issue was how do you not believe someone that stood by you and fought yeah all these all these missions yeah she did so many missions on her own and with them and and Plo Cloon Plo Koon it brought her in for her for him to even have a doubt that actually made me sad because I like Plo Clon. Yeah I I like him a lot um especially with her I thought that was they had a really good dynamic um to be honest I think he should have been you know her master but or her teacher I don't want to say master I don't even like using that word but I get it I get it um but yeah for I mean she just and even Anakin had a doubt not I'm not saying it was long a long doubt I think he you know quickly brought it back but he had a a little doubt and that is you know yeah that's bullshit it's bullshit she has gone through so much so she should be teaching them and by her leaving that's that's that's her teaching them listen no we're not gonna put up with this anymore so Sherry Sherry don't hurt them that was yeah yeah you I don't think I mean so I kind of think they deserve what they got in the end and how about that how about that little moment when Anakin when she said I have to you know I have to go I have to do this and he's like I don't I understand I get it I understand wanting to leave the Jedi order and she said I know and he looked at her so she's she knows his heart she knows she knows she knows about him and pad me she knows about Annie and Padme yeah but so yeah that's so that's my thought on it maybe she's the one that should have become well she does kind of become the teacher but anyway that's that's a later sherry with the hot take maybe Ahsoka should be training the Jedi masters I love it I love it Tony what are your thoughts did the Jedi ever deserve Ahsoka the whole no did Anakin yes okay um and and uh like I know that there are some upcoming things that are going to be watching uh Tales of the Dark Side which I'm sure is going to touch on this a little bit more um I mean the questions that I have right now having not watched that stuff yet is like to me there's so many obvious things of y'all are being played and you don't understand it.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

And I and like I mean so you have the technology in this prison to have a hologram of the cell but just so happens that the voice breaks out right yeah right she runs out and all these people are dead you don't have images of all that to clearly show that she didn't kill these people because she was still running into that area yet like it's so obvious that like and and the fact that like you know and it's a relatively new development for for the show to say hey you know there's a lot of pushback now against the Jedi about the war and all this and and you know a relatively new upsurge in power of the um of the republic to say okay like you know yeah we wanted you guys to be our generals our our our commanders but now we're ready to take this over on our own we don't need you anymore and the fact that they just cave in like like you know the well hey we want you to expel her from the order so that we can try her and they and they just do it and they do it what the fuck totally and nobody even questions the hey well why can't we see the you know why can't we see the footage from the prison why like I mean again this whole thing started with it with an explosion that happened when neither neither Soka or Anakin were even on that planet probably even in that sector no like how the fuck are you gonna come back and say that this is that she started all this right when there's no way she started all of this yeah they were understanding hey there's a question as to how this woman died like because obviously again like you know it was not a good look it looked like he was choking her out it was not a good look for sure but but to go from that to you killed all these clones and you and you were involved in this bomb plot like how the like that is a leap that is ridiculous you are so right and the fact that and the fact that the nobody on the council bothered to say hey what the fuck Obi-Wan started to but then even he he he backed off too yeah where was that robot that was the investigator where was that motherfucker at because he should have known that like he said Tony he's that that part to for me is big because that sort of spoke to a larger narrative about this trend in the Jedi Order um after you know after discussing it I find it interesting that Mace Wind who I feel doesn't trust Anakin this guy and this plays Revenge of the Sith yeah never has um I don't think he even respected Ahsoka um you we see her at the beginning of this arc almost as if like an equal yeah she saves Anakin from on Kate and Moida from a plane crash oh you know it was like she was the the Obi-Wan and Anakin now they were they were partners they weren't master and apprentice they were partners 100% and so and they brought like we you said they brought them specifically back to the temple because they were not there you were going to be a you know sort of like a red team to break you know to see outside the box for anything and immediately mace backs double backs on them and says no no I'm gonna send this analysis droid uh to to do to look look over your work and and basically do a whole almost like a separate investigation while they're doing their job.

SPEAKER_03 29:06

He was a babysitter.

SPEAKER_00 29:08

Babysitter 100% and I also want to know if I find interesting you know Tarkin obviously what a jerk that guy um that guy he um you know I'm sure Palpatine in some grand way you know whatever part he you know he had involved in this this was the last straw of breaking Anakin's attachments to Ahsoka.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

Yeah and we know Tarkin's his lap dog so of course he's the one that says no no we're not gonna deal with this and with through Jedi tradition we're gonna you know the republic clones were killed so we're gonna you know this is now a military matter and now the military is going to supersede our generals and in in how to proceed with this and it was just you you could see because we know where this is this is this is where the plot armor starts to get thin where we understand that there has to be somehow we have to divide Anakin from Ahsoka because we don't see her in Revenge of the Sith but you just you start to see the branches of the tree where okay mace windu's arrogance you know compromise Ahsoka Tarkin is just by chomping at the bit to undermine the Jedi order's authority um and it's just it played out it is it's the classic scooby dude I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids and you're hiding besides entrust as lightsabers yeah does Tarkin know that Palpatine or that I think he does I think he knows he knows he's Palpatine or I I have a feeling at this point in the game he he he would have brought somebody like he knows he has bigger ambitions I don't know if he knows he's the full on Sith lord no I don't think so at this point no I it's just he was really nasty in this episode well even when we first even when we first meet him in the um uh citadel arc he had a very low opinion of the Jedi order as part of the grand army uh I'm sure that's that was like a a a uh a a red flag opening for Palpatine to bring him into the fold oh yeah that maybe being like we're military and then you're bringing in these monks like yeah yeah and Tarkin is that military guy he's he's that climber you know he we see he becomes a grand moth you know that's what he wants he wants that power he wants that influence you know he's he becomes a governor he becomes you know this monk and he doesn't and he never liked Ahsoka to begin with now because she was giving him SAS at the citadel and and if he is part of Palpatine's grand design on having Anakin as an apprentice you got to get rid of the first apprentice before you do that and I think all part of a larger strategy to you know of all the Jedi that were out and about in the galaxy why do we pick Anakin and Ahsoka to come back and and investigate this bombing unless you're trying to frame Ahsoka for the bombing that's all Palpatine pulling strings because Palpatine he he needs he needs to work he's he's sculpting he's sculpting Anakin right now he's he's grooming him for the dark side and you know it's interesting one thing that you had brought up too is you know how Ahsoka really gets under Tarkin's skin and that's a really nice parallel to what we see in the comics and the EU with between Leia and Tarkin because she's the same way with him she recognizes that he's just like she yeah I think in one of the comics she ends up like spilling like water or a liquid or something on him from a balcony and he just he's just like he hates her so and we see that we see that in in this episode when he when he grabs a soap same way he did Leah yeah you know and you know when he says when he tells Leia he said you know you don't know how difficult it was for me to sign your execution order or whatever um he just did that he was he felt so good because he's been trying to kill her since she was like 10.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

You know so what a slimy bastard he is he is a bastard and and to answer your question as somebody who survived eight years of Catholic school the part that really just bothers me is the fact that okay the Jedi were manipulated into abandoning Ahsoka you know they they could have stood up for her more I think oh 100% is that instead of having this hearing or whatever in the council chamber yeah even projecting the image of like there's of their traditions they don't do it in the in the council chamber that we've seen out in the open they have a private little chamber of judgment and anyone that's been in enough fan groups and I'm like oh god this is the private forum where everybody talks trash about people they don't like it's very intimidating it's very clickish and it's very dark very Catholic schoolish and I'm just like oh man I I I I had flashbacks of my childhood going oh yeah I remember being called the principal's office because so and so ratted me out on something like I was just like because you're you know you you go you start doing the he said it it wasn't it was a split Yoda said it was it was a not a divided decision so I'm like okay maybe Obi-Wan that was it and and maybe maybe plo. Because there's a great show I'm gonna share it on the Facebook page somebody did a when when Ahsoka said she was leaving his face changed like the express even his mask like the the the expression just went from like normal to like almost sad like just total like shock like that this yeah it's knowing that I think I think in his own way he loved Ahsoka too of course yeah of course those two and and maybe Yoda I can almost see being like the three votes for there were probably four or five of the full council so I don't think it was I don't think I don't think it was a mandate but I think it was just enough a majority that mace's bureaucracy won out the day and I'm just like mace is a Trump supporter I can't Mace voted for Trump.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

I can't wait to see that guy get thrown out a window I'm just saying this this is why I said Mace is one of the worst characters you're not wrong you're not wrong he has potential I think he needs he needs a redemption art I think we need to go back we need to revisit mace post being barbecued and tossed out a window because he's got a he's he's a he's a he's an interesting character he's a fun character but and he's a necessary character he he's he really is does embody that dogmatic uh arrogance arrogance and and structure of the Jedi so I don't know hopefully we'll see I don't think again I don't think Sassi T and teen voted for Ahsoka I don't think Kiadi Mundi voted for her.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Mundy might have I think Mundy and a few of the other but like Obi-Wan Yoda I think got outnumbered and I think it was just Obi-Wan and Plo.

Padme Steps Up As Jedi Waver

Barriss Offee And A Broken Order

SPEAKER_03 35:51

I don't even think Yoda because Yoda and Yoda and mace are usually really really together on most votes because Yoda Yoda can detach himself Yoda kind of pissed me off but yeah I'm just saying we'll see later I don't want to give too much away for Tony but I we we've seen instances where Yoda's wisdom is yeah is overridden by the bureaucracy of the order and I'm I have a feeling yeah he he cared about Ahsoka too like I think there was I think he was like he would have rather dealt it with within the order but the idea of expelling her so that this this show trial that that Palpatine you know was Palpatine the judge of this trial and he's sitting up there you know talking about how yeah he's basically announcing her guilty before the the the senators could even vote oh yeah we've had some crazy Senate votes in the in the last few years but even this one I was like what is this shit so somebody who's been through a trial within the three groups let me tell you you know getting rail you know when you're getting railroaded and it's just like what the hell all right so crash I I uh so yes or no did the Jedi deserve Ahsoka the Jedi most definitely deserved Ahsoka but I don't think they appreciated her enough no no again it was it was their arrogance that pushed her away now this this whole moment this let's talk about Anakin for a second um was this was a betrayal for both of them I mean this was hard for Anakin and and Ahsoka was this the moment do you think that Anakin truly began to began to lose his faith in the Jedi or did it kind of oh okay all right yes but I mean can we talk about Padme Padme stepped she stepped up yeah she said and I really like that I just thought I was I didn't expect her to even be there so I mean I don't know Padme came in hot I just thought that was a big deal and no no questions asked as far as Padme was concerned you are innocent until proven guilty versus the Jedi saying right to prove your innocence right and and and with what time like should at what point from when they captured her her to the show trial in with in the set at the republic you know Anakin's the only one that even made an attempt to prove either prove or disprove that Ahsoka was involved. Correct all it was was Ahsoka say hey I was with Ventress she you know she I thought she was helping me and then she jumps like no one checked anything out they went from you know indictment to sentencing like it was because again this was a just a show trial to remove Ahsoka from Anakin's life so basically Ventress saved her in a way yeah by telling Anakin what actually happened that was a great scene where it's like she oh she has nothing to lose she has nothing to gain by lying and Anakin I think that was you were saying he lost faith in the Jedi that boy was unleashed yeah to whoop some ass to get some answers he held back though I mean it really did he held back so we I mean I love like at multiple points throughout this arc you just see his face like he is this is his snips you know this is his his friend it's it I can't even define their relationship it's yeah but it's like almost it's like it's like daughter sister bestie it's like it's such a unique relationship it's such a beautiful relationship that the two of them have and we'll we'll get to see this this relationship move in different directions and it's just the entire thing is heartbreaking and you know when when we see her lit much later on talking to Luke about anyway all right okay okay I can't I can't do it I can't do I'm a sorry all right so my next question is for for the group of course you know um go ahead and jump in on this um was Baris Offie right for the wrong reasons like she was she was the wrong messenger but was her message valid I mean the way that she delivered that message not great I mean she straight up murdered some innocent clones and innocent people you know innocent workers and things like that but was she right yeah yes but she should have done what the Ahsoka did and left the order and tried to fix it some other way like go off and try to figure something else out but I I think she was angry about her master and so she didn't turn all the way to the dark side but she did tap in and yeah I I think she felt betrayed and well Luminara is still alive her her master's still alive I think she was angry about the the role of the Jedi and and the you know the what the Jedi are supposed to represent being slowly eroded away she's right in that the Jedi were losing their way unfortunately it's the difference between peaceful protests versus rioting or you know setting off bombs because you don't like the way something's going um and and especially to to frame your friend yeah at first yeah that was a lot I at first I I but you didn't catch it when I first watched the show years ago but you see a lot of familiar characters walking around the background and and a lot of times you thought okay they're recycling animation rather than drawing you know new figures or whatever you know because um we saw the younglings from the lightsaber yeah episode uh at and and that so I was like okay we're seeing a lot of recycled animation and I was like okay there's bears walking down the hallway no problem and then all of a sudden she's like when Ahsoka's talking to the um the bomb suspect girl she uh she peeks in the doorway and you don't think much of it until you realize oh she was spying on Ahsoka and getting information just like when Ahsoka was talking to her on the phone but you know Barris overheard the name Asaj heard the name Barris and when she told Anakin oh yeah she did talk to somebody at the temple yeah it this is almost like a classic film noir kind of thing where it's like everybody's got a little piece of information that builds up that sort of reveals who the killer really was but you know at first when you see a bear is walking through the temple you don't think much of it in fact we went to console her because she was upset and she you could tell her friend was not in in a good place.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

No but she was just she was just fishing for information that's why she inserted herself into that that conversation exactly so Tony what do you think well uh I mean we make a lot of good points um I I mean Barris the initial point is correct that they're not supposed to be soldiers and I completely agree with that point however she's clearly not in a good you know clearly not in a great mindset to to do the things that she did to get that point across um now I will say like I have a little bit of empathy for her because I mean I still remember her suffering through the brain worms and all that shit like yeah it's something like that's gonna mess with you. Now I do wonder I again we know the Luminara is still alive at this point I'm curious as to why she's not present where her where her Padawan is or if she at this point had passed the trials and was now a knight on her own. Because you know if Ahsoka hasn't passed the trials yet I don't understand how Barris would have um but I mean that's maybe that's something we'll find out later. I don't know Um so again, I think you know she has a point, but I mean this is not the way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Right. You know, and and speaking of the trials, or is it or is it? I mean, you know, you have a way to do it when you get pushed to a certain point, you know, but um I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 44:23

I agree, I kind of agree with what she did, unfortunately. Not not at Ahsoka's Yeah, that was fucked up. Um it was, but uh like they said, I know they said you know, us to Ahsoka, these maybe this was your trials, like this is bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

I'm not sure that's a Catholic cop out.

SPEAKER_01 44:43

I could it is it's it's a very religious cop out.

Walking Away Takes Real Strength

SPEAKER_03 44:45

It's like you, Mace Windu, fuck you for even offering that, but I think she went the right way with it by just leaving the order, and that's a good point, too. And that I have I have another question about that as well. About you know, she walks away from the order, not out of weakness, no, but but clarity, you know. So so what does Ahsoka's choice say about real strength of character? You know, you've got all these Jedi masters that are there, you know, they personify power, they personify strength. But who who really you know had the most strength of character here in terms of you know Ahsoka walking away.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

This kind of ranks up there with the I mean it's a yeah, we it yeah, 40 years later we sort of you know look at it at that moment where Luke throws his lightsaber away at you know and says, I'm a Jedi, I yeah, I won't fight, I won't kill my father, right? You know, that was a very moment of clarity, moral strength kind of thing to do. And you don't quite understand it when you're a little kid and you think, no, you're supposed to fight the bad guys. Well, sometimes the best way to fight a bad guy is to not fight, is to stand up for what you believe. And with it with Ahsoka, I mean, they literally were just trying to like do an oopsies with her and say, Oh, we'll welcome you back to, you know, and like and act like nothing happened. Our bad, and yeah, and and you just you felt for her that you know, after all this trauma and betrayal, she felt you know they were just gonna do a mulligan on her. And I like the fact that when she walked, when she left and Anakin follows her, you know, Obi-Wan, you know, Plow grabs his shoulders, like, no, no, let them he's like, let him be a man, let him be a man, let them talk, let them talk, yeah. Because that's why I think Obi-Wan voted for Ahsoka, because I think you know, again, he she's part of that family, he's part of that family too. And I think that was a sign where it's like, yeah, uh Obi-Wan joining the council was sort of he was the best of them, and at the same time, he was the junior member, and so I don't think he had as much sway as we like to think he did.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

No, but also him being on the council was also a means of separating him from Anakin, right? You know, and I think we as the audience needed to see that Obi-Wan wanted to go after Anakin and Ahsoka. So I'm glad that I'm glad that that happened. You know, I'm glad that we saw that because I think I think we needed to see that. Um, before we get to the big question, I have a what if scenario. So what's the butterfly effect of Ahsoka walking away? Like, if had she stayed, could she have saved Anakin at all? Tony, what do you think about that? Do you think this had anything to do with the potential uh Anakin's fall? Absolutely, I do.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Um yeah, I mean it again, you know, we we asked him before was this the moment where he started to doubt the council? Was this the moment where he started to lose his faith in the order? And clearly he did. And had this not happened that way, had she not left, that wouldn't be as much of a factor. Um, I actually thought you were gonna ask a different question regarding the butterfly effect. Um, let's take this back even further. If Qui-Gon were still around, does that vote go the same way?

SPEAKER_03 48:18

If if Qui-Gon was around, they wouldn't, I don't think any of them would still be at the Jedi Temple. I think I think little Annie would have been with Qui-Gon somewhere else, possibly Obi with them. I don't I don't think that no, it never would have gotten to this. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

It does raise the question. I I like the part, and this is fast-forwarding a little bit, but in the last Jedi, when Luke's trying to explain to Ray the failure of the Jedi Order, yeah, he's he's not wrong at the height of their hubris. They let Palpatine rise up and destroy them. And this was the beginning of that that end where it was just like, okay, you had this supposed chosen one, he has an apprentice. We're separate, we're gonna separate her from him, we're gonna separate his master from him, and everything is just feeding him towards Palpatine, feeding him towards the Chancellor, you know, yeah, his uncle. And it was just like you you could see again. We have the the the beauty of hindsight in both directions where we've we know where the story goes, but if for somebody watching this for the first time, having not seen the movies, you know, even there's even they're starting to connect the dominoes of okay, you remove every little piece that makes Anakin who he is the good way, yeah. And clearly it's it brings out his worst instincts.

SPEAKER_03 49:37

Yeah, absolutely. And Sherry, what do you think about that? Like, do you do you think that she could have it had she stayed? You know, and we're not we're not blaming Ahsoka, obviously, for Anakin's fall. This was all Alpatine and the and and the Jedi orders doing had nothing to do with her, but could she have could she have saved him, much like Qui-Gon? I mean, could she have maybe put kept him from going down that really dark path?

SPEAKER_01 50:02

I think so. I I think she had the patience and the the foresight to do it. But I think she also knew that he was going down the wrong path, to be honest. I think she knows that there, you know, he's she's seen him go to his dark side.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

Um, so so that might have scared her for herself. Like, I don't want to go to that path. So, I mean, really, let's look at it. Would she have saved him or would they have become Sith together if she would have stayed? Yeah, you know, I I think that because I think she would have eventually if she would have stayed and he turned to Darth, I I think she would have I think she would have went with him. I do she was so thinking she loved him. Oh my god, she loves him so much. As a father, but I think she I mean with everything that happened, this was for her, this was this was the the catalyst that was like enough is enough. I gotta go, even leaving him because she was losing herself to these in everything. I mean, she was losing yeah, she was losing her own because even her culture is beautiful. Um I thought, you know, where she was born, you know, her yeah, they they are very in tuned with the plant, their planet, with their animal, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 51:36

Oh, yeah, and how emotionally mature and healthy is she? I mean, that's that was really shocking for someone being that young and having, but she's been through a lot, but that was the healthiest thing that I think she could have done. It was the most mature thing was to get out of this abusive relationship.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

It's like, yeah, it's like leaving a toxic relationship. Like I have to go and find me, and then I can come back, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 52:02

And let's not forget, she actually warned herself in in the mortis trilogy. She saw that vision of her older self warning her about the path Anakin was on. So I think that was her a Burma shave signpost for her going, Hey, that mortise me was right. Anakin's having these moments, those having a few more of his moments than he used to.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

Oh shit, yeah, I guess so. That would do it.

Did The Jedi Deserve To Fall

SPEAKER_03 52:31

That would do it when you have that kind of a wake-up call, right? I mean, that'll do it. All right, so so last question the big question did the Jedi deserve to fall, and what they fell, as we know, they fell hard. Did they deserve it? And I thought it was interesting because every every Jedi that was in that room, except for Obi-Wan and Yoda, they all got taken out during Order 66. So I'm wondering if that was by design. I wonder if if they were all in there set up like that as a you know, Order 66, maybe a bit of you know, karma for the role that they played with with Ahsoka. But what do you guys think? Did the Jedi Order deserve to fall? Did it need to fall? What are your thoughts? Crash, what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 53:21

I don't think I'm a very big fan of the Jedi as a concept, yeah. Um, and this kind of hurts me to say, but I think the Jedi Order, and again, like Luke, even preface to it, it I don't know if it needed to fall this hard. I don't need you know, I I I can't imagine I can't think of a scenario where going into a school and killing the children is necessary. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, I think the dogmatic side of the hierarchy of the Jedi, of the singular vision of what the force represents needed to be put in its place. I don't know if you can change the Jedi, yeah, the Jedi from within, but I think there needed to be some uh forces either through the Republic or within the order that sell. Yeah, I I think it I think that changes. I'm I'm really looking forward to seeing maybe what this these new Ray or you know, Jedi movie is gonna, yeah. How are the Luke and we see in book above that you know he's trying to rebuild the Jedi, but he's trying to build it the way he was taught by Yoda and Obi-Wan. So I think there were mistakes inherent in the way he learned about the Jedi. I think Ahsoka would be a much better teacher of what went wrong, right? Because literally for her, it went wrong.

SPEAKER_03 54:52

It went all sideways, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

So I think I don't know if the Jedi needed order needed to fall, but it definitely needed to be changed.

SPEAKER_03 55:01

All right, that's fair. Tony, what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 55:05

The council deserved their fate. Okay. Um now the the order as it as a whole, no. Um did they have some good qualities to them? Of course they did. Um but their leadership had fallen away from what they were supposed to be doing, and there needed to be a change. Uh you know, whether that's a a culling or however we want to phrase it, it something had to change to get to get them back to where they needed to be. And again, did it go way too far? Yeah, of course it did. Yeah, a little bit, yeah. The whole youngling thing, maybe overkill, a little bit. Yeah, um, you know, inquisitors hunting down individual, like, yeah, it definitely was what way too far. Um but uh you know, did they they had fallen off of the path where they were supposed to be on, and as a result, yes, they deserve to fall.

SPEAKER_03 56:14

Yeah, and you know, it's it's interesting too that you know, and crash you had mentioned it as well about uh you know things going too far left or right or whatever. But we the Jedi dealed in absolutes, you know. We hear we hear Obi-Wan admonish Anakin for that, you know, only the Sith deal in absolutes, but the Jedi do as well. They're they are they are hardline on certain certain ideals, you know. They they definitely have they are the other side of the the Sith coin, like without a doubt, you know, light side, dark side, it there's no in between. So so I Tony, I agree with you. I think in many ways that this this sort of a of a culling needed to happen just to shake things up, thin the herd, and maybe uh maybe look at things a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_01 57:03

Sherry, what do you think? Oh, I agree with Tony as well. I um, you know, the council did have to go, I do agree with that. But I think I think like if Qui-Gon would have lived, because I know he was trying to get he saw it, and he was trying to get them to change and and and use the living force, and I think he would have so I know that's just a what if, but sure, but I mean it's all this. Um I think man, uh him and Ahsoka, wow, he would have been. I I'm not saying Anakin wouldn't have been her, you know, her teacher, but I think if he would have lived, the story obviously would be totally different and a little more, you know. And I know this is their story, and this is you know how the writers write it, it's no big deal. Um, I don't hate it, but um can you imagine that though?

SPEAKER_03 58:00

But yeah, I mean god Anakin QuiGon, Ahsoka, Padme, Luke, and Leia all living in this little fun hippie commune going on fun Jedi adventures, defeating evil and uh yeah. It was a little much, it was a little bit, but that's because you know, look who was doing it. So right. We had we had we had one extreme quote unquote cleaning up another extreme, right?

SPEAKER_01 58:31

And again, I don't I personally don't even think you know, I know they were like, well, Anakin, you know, is gonna bring balance.

Coruscant Underworld And Deep Cuts

SPEAKER_03 58:37

I I don't even think there was there wasn't it it was no there's there's debate that it was actually innocent that didn't need to be oh so many, so many, so for no reason, but um but yeah well a lot of people think it was Luke Luke was Luke was Luke brought the balance and you know Anakin Anakin was a chosen one and he was going to bring balance to the force, but not necessarily him through his lineage through his lineage, yeah, through his his his seed brought balance, but what I mean I'm this I mean I mean he didn't he didn't get had May Pregars using the force. I mean he you know I'm sure there was some force applied. Well, no, and we talked about that today. What could she have been pregnant now? At this time, I I mean I don't think so. How after does he turn? No, we've still got about almost a year left. Oh, okay. There's still we've still got some time before order six. I don't know the timeline. I don't I just yeah, I think I think we're still just a little bit we're still a little bit off that. Um getting closer, obviously. Um I think season seven, I think she's she is with child in season seven, but season six, I don't I don't think so. I don't know. Keeper of the holocron. That'd be uh that'd be something that we could possibly look up, but um but I do want to mention the uh the guards, man. Oh yeah, the Jedi Temple. They look cool, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

I yeah, I was I like their their outfits.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

I know nothing about them.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

I really know they're white.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:11

I was like, damn, they're yellow, they're yellow.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:14

Oh well, they look white to me. They're yellow.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:16

It's it's a little what a little white, a little yellow mixed in. Cream. See, I've seen a few of them a cot a great costume.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:24

Um oh, you've seen them like out people caught them.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:28

This is my first time ever seeing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:30

I'll uh I'll find some I got some old pictures from uh celebrations when I'll put them up on the uh safe space page.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:36

And okay, I guess they're really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:38

Yeah, but the my favorite part of this entire arc, besides the goodbye scene with Anakin and Ahsoka, which is great because if you ever heard Ashley and Matt Lander talk, they had to kick everybody. They they recorded as an ensemble, they had people and they had to kick everybody out of the room. It was just her, Matt, and Dave. And apparently that was like an all it took a while to get that scene right. It was it was an emotional scene for the characters, it was an emotional scene for the actors, yeah. Of course, but the one I like is uh in the second episode, yeah. Um when Ahsoka's running from the clones and she's just dodging stun bolts left and right, which we will we'll get a hint of where that comes from. But I like the big literal cliffhanger. I I called it the fugitive moment where she's like standing there at the edge of the drain, yeah, and and and you know, Anakin's pleading with her to come back, and it you can also hear like Tommy Lee Jones. I don't care. Only this time he does, I do care.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:44

Right, and it's so it's it was so cool, and yeah, because of course we see that you Harrison Ford old Han Solo did that, and then they just we were sitting there, he met, he goes, Oh my god, the fugitive. Yeah, and Dave, you know, Dave did that shit on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:56

Oh, yeah, there's a lot of little references of things that you know a younger audience might not get, but as as you get older, you start to go, oh, okay, there's some there's some media literacy going on here.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:08

And I thought it was interesting too because they when she when she went down into the into the depths, they talked about how she was on level 1312 and level 1315, but they never mentioned 1313. And I thought that was interesting because that was for those that may not know, that was supposed to be like the Boba Fett origin story video game that was scrapped, and I am I've always been very disappointed that that was scrapped because the concept art for young boba's armor at that time, and it was just him in on level 1313 becoming boba fett, you know, and so I I I I I like that they were at least using level 13 something, but I I found it interesting that they didn't mention 1313.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:01

Yeah, at the time it was I think the game was still in development, it was it was a kind of potential kind of um, but just the concept. This was like really the first time when we started seeing the underworld of Coruscant being explored, and you go from like the prequel movies and clone wars where Coruscant's this bright big, you know, Asaj even mentioned, you know, not everybody lives in a town in a grand temple on the on the surface, shiny temple, shiny temple, and I was like, okay, so the captain Coruscant's got a C tier side, and you know, there's all sorts of potential, like you said, with the the game, there was so much potential storytelling you could do on Coruscant, and it it just never developed, and it's just another case of where it's like a great concept, you know, kind of got salvaged by Dave in that okay, we can't do 1313, but how about the floor?

No Homework And Community Plugs

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

Yeah, we'll yeah, we'll move up, we'll move up a floor, down a floor, and and that'll be all right. Yeah, yeah. When they went to the bottom when she jumped, that's straight up reminded me like so. I'm wondering if that was influence as well. Again, I don't I don't know the dates of the fifth element, but I I I'm pretty sure it predates oh, yeah, that was like clone was like late 90s, yeah. So Dave is such a nerd. Dave, we love you. You're such a freaking nerd. I'm I I know you're pulling all these references from different places, and and we love you for it. Um all right, so that is gonna that is gonna do it. We're gonna get into our uh obligatory pimpage here for next week. There is no homework, so there's nothing to watch because the season is wrapped, but we're doing one last episode in our season. Um, and we're gonna be looking ahead to season six, and we'll be talking about the future of Star Wars. You know, we we kind of touched on a couple of projects, you know, today, but we'll go a little bit more in-depth next week. So so we have homework to do, but uh Star Warriors, you guys don't have any homework, so but come join us anyways. Yeah, come hang out anyway. Come hang out anyway, jump in the in the comment section, and uh we'll be doing it live again. So come in and join us and be part of the conversation. And we'll remember to record, and we'll remember to record the first time. Um maybe yeah, and it's because that this isn't this is unfortunately not the first time this has happened, and in the past, Tony has reminded me, but I've been pretty good about it, and uh, so I think Tony is not to be fair, you're kind of quicker this time than last time. Yeah, the last time we were like we were we were like 30, 40 minutes in. Yeah, it was bad. I was like, oh, what the fuck? So that was that was a rough one. All right. Uh so before we head out, we're gonna do uh I guess our obligatory pimping. Check out uh check out the uh the blogs. We're gonna start uh posting blogs, probably not on like a regular basis, but uh, you know, if we've got something to talk about, something newsworthy, we'll throw it up there. So circle nerves.com slash With an S. Um, and of course, if you want to get some of the sweet, sweet merch, you want to get all drippy like we are, circle nerds.com slash merch and uh show the world that you are swarzy curious. And speaking of swarzy curious, you can look for our Facebook group full of like-minded, swarzy curious folks who uh don't make each other feel bad for not knowing every little intimate detail of the Star Wars universe because you know we we know a lot collectively, but we don't know everything. So you know a lot more than you give yourself credit for. Um so we're not Dave Falone. Dave Faloney knows everything. Sam Whitwear knows everything about Star Wars. We are not them. We know a lot, we know a lot, but not not everything. So join us in the Swarzy, Swarzy Curious group. Uh Tony, did you find something?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

Uh from what I can see, they don't offici they don't give an official timeline. However, um she is not pregnant at this point, right? Um there is a there are later episodes within the show where where it is made obvious to the audience that she is pregnant, but it is still not made obvious to Anakin, which is a whole other question because like this actually you know cut me down a little bit of a rabbit hole with when she announces when she tells Anakin that she's pregnant, she's at least like seven months long. Oh, yeah, yeah, easy. And how the fuck does he not know at that point?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

Like she's gone, man. It's the road, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:41

Well, you're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:43

And and he was away on you know, in the movie they talk the outer rim sieges. You know, the the him and Obi-Wan were off in the you know, the outer ridges of the the galaxy with the war. He may not have been able to call in as much as he used to.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:56

Yeah, he might not have. I mean, yeah, he was out for I mean, really, you we we see uh a nice little montage of that in the uh the micro series with you know Obi-Wan and Anakin just they're out there just so long, you know, Anakin's hair grows out. I mean, it's like they're just they look a little more battle hardened. I mean, they're just out there in the shit, so so it's possible, yeah. Yeah, and also, you know, we know Padme likes to wear a lot of like in big robes and shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:24

So I understand. Yeah, I even even if we're not talking clothing, like I'm sorry, you have the force and you can't tell if there's something going on.

unknown 1:08:31

Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:36

That is a great point.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

Well, and don't forget, not only is you know, Padme's not necessarily keeping her pregnancy secret from Anakin, but she had to keep it secret from the Republic. Yeah, oh nobody can know the local news, and yeah, she starts wearing um in the Queen's. I can't remember what the EK Johnson books. Uh they talk about Padme in the Senate. They had to adjust her wardrobe, and and some of the other senators were noticing she was wearing more flowy, big, big you know, gowns. Yeah, she's gotta hide the fact that she's got a baby bump from C-SPAN.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:11

Yeah, because who they're gonna ask who's the daddy, you know, who's baby daddy? I like that C-SPAN corusant political network. So, all right, but yeah, so I I'm thinking that's yeah, there's there's a lot of ways to cover it up. But Tony, you bring up a very, very good point, and again, one of the plot holes with the cheat code that is the force. How did Anakin not sense those two powerful life forms growing inside of his wife's belly?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:42

I think because they were with the light side because they were innocent babies and he was reaching into the dark side and it was clouded, he couldn't see it. Okay, or was Pal they were protecting themselves. Luke might have been, I mean, pregnant or not, he still had the force, so he might have been protecting Padme and Leia.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:04

Palpatine knew Palpatine could have Palpatine's a different uh he's a different animal for sure. But he knew he knew Padme was pregnant, he knew that they were together, he knew everything the entire time. He did, yeah, and he used it to manipulate Anakin. And I think maybe actually now that I think about it, maybe he did mask that from Anakin because he still needed Anakin to do some stuff. The last thing that he needed was Anakin to be distracted by knowing that his wife is pregnant. Because I think that had he known that, oh, he would have left, he maybe would have dipped out, he would have dipped out straight up. I mean, who knows?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:42

So no, he would have dipped out and took care of those kids, and that was it. Yeah, he would have ran away with Padme. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:48

I mean, he was he was kind of a deadbeat dad with Luke and Leia, though.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:52

He didn't know about them.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:54

No visits, no child support. There's, I mean, well, when he found out, I mean, he could have done some bad child support. Do you see his house? I mean, he's living all right, he's he's getting that good government paycheck, he's doing all right for himself. He's got that big temple on Vajun, you know, he's got his own, you know, his own stuff. He's he was doing all right. When he did find out, he could have he could have sent the check, but he didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

He found out this reminds me of a meme that I saw where uh just a little like cartoon meme, and it's uh from from episode four where where where Vader's in front of Leia and she's you know, he's like arguing with her, and she's like, you know, dad, you never let me do what I wanted. He's like, go to your room, my room was on Aldera. That's hard. But we've we've seen how he argues more and she goes, Well, let's just see what mom says. Oh, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:48

Ouch!

SPEAKER_01 1:11:49

I'm sorry, that's funny.

Thanks Veterans And Closing Words

SPEAKER_03 1:11:50

I could see Leia saying that though. She's sassy, she's she's sassy bitch. We we know that Anakin and Darth Vader, we know that Darth Vader doesn't like kids, clearly. So I mean, you know, he clearly does not like children, unfortunately. So yeah, he was a terrible father, terrible father. Anyway, all right, let's wrap this up. All right, we're forking it, it's done. All right, so uh head on over to the website circle mirrors.com, check out our merch, check out our blogs, check out all the stuff. You can check out the timeline, circlemirrors.com slash the SWS show. I need to make a thing for that too. Um and you'll you'll find uh out, find what's coming up. You can check out our podcasts there, all the information about the show, most of the information about the show, because I still need to put more information about the show there. So, all right, that's it. So thank you for joining us and for tuning in this week. We appreciate you. And of course, as always, um, a big thank you and much respect to all of our active duty service members and veterans uh for your service and sacrifice. We appreciate you. We love you, thank you for all that, and especially for what many veterans are going through right now. It's uh rough time, rough time. So um, anybody have anything else on the way out?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

No, this was a good season, and it was just brutal that this is the way the show ended, but we we get a comeback.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:07

We get a comeback. Oh, and and and and season six and seven, talk about it. Comeback.

unknown 1:13:14

Woo!

SPEAKER_01 1:13:14

All right, all right, all right.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:16

We're gonna get into it. We'll get we'll talk about it. All right, it's gonna be good stuff. All right, so Star Wars, as always, remember if no one does anything nice for you, do something nice to yourself. And we will see you all next week. And if I can push the button and do it properly, yeah, we'll see you next week. All right, bye.