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Own the Outcome with Tyler Deveraux
Own the Outcome dives deep into the real stories of resilience and triumph that arise from the depths of failure. Join Tyler Deveraux on a journey of inspiration, growth, and authentic conversation. Within every stumble lies a valuable lesson, a chance for transformation, and a path towards success. Each episode features compelling stories from a diverse range of guests, from entrepreneurs and artists to everyday heroes—all sharing one thing in common: their ability to turn adversity into an opportunity for growth. Because in the end, it's not about avoiding failure; it's about owning the outcome.
Own the Outcome with Tyler Deveraux
Master Influence and Communication with Rene Rodriguez
Unlock the secrets of mastering influence with behavioral neuroscience expert, Rene Rodriguez. Join Tyler Deveraux on today's episode, where Rene takes us through his 30-year journey. Through his book "Amplify Your Influence," Rene shares his insights into the importance of framing ideas correctly and understanding how our brains process information amidst the challenge of negativity bias.
Thank you for listening to today's episode. If this podcast has brought a smile to your face or sparked some new ideas, I'd love to hear from you! Leaving a review would mean the world to me. Appreciate you!
Connect with Tyler on Instagram: @tyler_deveraux
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All right, aloha y'all. Welcome to the Only Outcome podcast. My name is Tyler Devereaux and today we have Rene Rodriguez. Rene, thanks for being on the podcast, bro.
Speaker 2:It's a pleasure, man, great to see you and excited for the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too. We're going to dive right in. We have those of you who don't know Rene. You need to look him up. I'll put all of his social links down below. He has a big event coming up called AmpCon, on August 16th. Where's it at again?
Speaker 2:It's in Dallas, Texas.
Speaker 1:In Dallas, texas. In Dallas, texas. Y'all need to get there. He has a great lineup of speakers, but, man, the best speaker there is Renee has to be, and I might be biased, but, brother, I'm excited to dive in and pick your mind a little bit, because your main topic is influence and you are a master at it. So I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions. But one of the stories that I heard about you that I loved is that you were somewhere and your mom asked you what's the one thing that these, all these people have in common? And you know you're looking at skin tone or genders or clothes, or whatever.
Speaker 2:And what did she say? Yeah, well, that was I'll never forget. It was almost 30 years. It was 30 years ago, 31 years ago, and I was really trying to figure it out. What, what's that? One thing that we all have in common and I couldn't figure it out. She finally looked at me. She said renee, everybody in this room has a brain, and if you understand how their brains work, life just becomes easier. You, you learn how to negotiate, uh, situations, you learn how to communicate better, you can be more empathetic, you can close more deals, you can be a better leader. I mean, these are, I mean literally everything. If you understand that there is a sequence to the brain was a sequence of how we process information and how we listen to it, and if we can learn to communicate with it versus against it which is what a lot of us do everything is just much easier so you went on to study it.
Speaker 1:Right, you have a background in um behavioral neuroscience, is that?
Speaker 2:yes, sir yeah, it was. I. I didn't like school until I remember my first psychology class in high school and I mean literally just was not a student. I was a basketball player and so I was a jock and he brought in a magician and the magician was doing these crazy magic tricks and it was just the most. It was the first time I'd been engaged and excited to be in school and it dawned on me I'm like okay, if school can be this fun and it's about psychology, this is exciting. And so I knew I wanted to do psychology.
Speaker 2:And then, when my mom had that conversation with me, I realized that there's a combination of psychology and how the brain works and there's where neuroscience sort of intersects. And for me, that fascination of how we understand life, why we make decisions, why we interpret things, why some things are resisted versus accepted. Why is it when he says the joke, everyone laughs, when I do, no one does. Why do they like him versus me? Why me, why, why? Why is it that you I mean the why questions are forever. That's endless and it's a study that it's just never ending, and so to me it's, it's perpetually fascinating yeah, and, bro, because we're going to get into it.
Speaker 1:I'm going to we're going to dive into that part, but I'm going to tell everybody right now if you haven't read his book, it it's called Amplify your Influence. You're going to want to read the book. We're going to dive into some of the things within the book, but you're going to want to read the book. You can find it anywhere that's out there. The reviews are phenomenal. Just in case you don't trust my review here, but go and read the book. We're going to dive into some of those. So let's talk about amplify your influence and, uh, one of the things you talk about is you know three steps to communicate a main idea. But first off, is it okay if we talk about what is the main idea and then how you communicate it, like you just said, you know, to make it land yeah, well, we'll think.
Speaker 2:I mean it's, it's almost going to sound elementary, elementary, but I think we lose sight of the purpose of communication is to bring one idea for me to you, and that idea might be an emotional response. It might be for the idea for you to buy into something, it might be for you to believe me on something, it might be for you to learn one plus one equals two, or to realize that drugs and alcohol aren't good for you, or we all have ideas that we need to share, and so then we go okay. So then, how do we process ideas? How do we learn something? The process of learning isn't about so much just sharing data and information, because when I share data and information, the brain is saying what, how do I understand this? And so it has to choose past or previous frames of reference to bring some context to this here and now idea. That's where the challenge lies that if I don't provide the correct context or the correct framing to this idea, the listener's brain is forced to do it based on their own experience, and I don't know their own experience. It could have been positive, it could have been negative, and so if I, anytime I communicate without a frame and I'll explain those in a second. It's basically rolling the dice on whether they'll get it.
Speaker 2:Now, added to that equation our propensity to be negative, which is called negativity bias, which is over. As we've evolved as humans, we've realized that the more we assume the negative, the safer we'll be. You hear a twig break in the woods at night. You're probably not going to get curious and want to know what it is. You're probably going to feel that sense of stress and fear and maybe move away from it or run. That's an instant negative. Now you don't have enough information, but that's enough for the brain to say let's not wait around and find out.
Speaker 2:And so there's a bias to that. That's why the media uses so much negativity in the news, because it captures attention, and so they're just trying to get eyeballs on stuff so that they can then deliver information. Once I have your eyeballs and your attention, I can then tell you other things. Now there's an abuse of that, obviously politicians, the media branding, there's a lot of abuses of that process, that clickbaitbait, social media. I can go on and on. So let's remove the the good or bad use of it. Let's just understand the use and what's happening. And so when we understand, like I'll give you the easiest example if I were to tell you a profession, what's the word, first word that comes to mind when I say used car salesman?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, just pushy aggressive right, and so immediately.
Speaker 2:Why did you come up with those words? All I said was a profession. Well, you had to access your previous experiences in a profession that carries a stigma, which has this underlying tension to it, and that's how you framed up this profession. Well, how would I change that? Because that's how you perceive the reality. Well, how would I shift your reality? Because this is really what influence is about. Some people see an event as negative. Well, after talking to somebody else, I might see it now as positive. There's a shift in reality and perception. There's lots of ways to do it.
Speaker 2:But, for example, if I were to tell you about my grandfather, who was in Cuba before the Cuban Revolution, saw that it was coming, knew it wasn't good for his family, and so he said I got to get my family out of here. So he wrote a letter to the president of the United States and said if you can get me and my family out of this country, I'll come in and fight for yours. Well, that letter made it to the right person and they pulled my grandfather out, my grandmother, my aunt and my mother. So his whole goal was to pursue the American dream. Now he served eight years in the American armed forces. After those eight years he finally landed in his American dream quote unquote in Homestead Florida. Now, if you know Homestead Florida, you know that back then especially, it wasn't much there except for Patrick Air Force Base. And so his income, his American dream, was limited to how far he could walk. But there was somebody who believed in my grandfather, saw what he did for this country and got him into an older vehicle. And that older vehicle allowed him to extend his reach by 50, 75, even a hundred miles, changing the ability to make an income and changing the trajectory of his life, my mother's life and ultimately my life. But that person who believed in my grandfather was a used car salesman.
Speaker 2:So now, did that trigger any negative thoughts? No, no, it didn't. And the reason it didn't is because I provided the frame first. That's me working with how the brain processes information. It needs a frame. So if I don't provide one, the brain will say hold on a second, I got some in store here. It might be positive, might be negative, might be helpful, might be not, but if I provide it for them, the brain goes thanks. I don't need to do that now, especially if I buy into your frame. I might not buy into the frame that means that you might have. Maybe there's trust issues, there's credibility issues. This is where we start getting into the depth of, you know, the analysis of why it works or doesn't work. But if I follow that sequence and I understand that now, all of a sudden I have a better chance of shifting your perception of things, which ultimately shifts reality.
Speaker 1:What is up y'all Listen. What is up y'all Listen. If this podcast has brought joy or value at some point as you're listening to it, we would love it if you would be so kind as to leave us a review down below. That is how we keep this thing moving and finding individuals just like you to pour value into. Now let's get back to the show.
Speaker 1:Brother like that alone on this podcast anybody listening to this it's not going to be a podcast where you just listen while you're running on the treadmill. You're going to listen and take notes and then apply. Even you leading into is what I recognize and I only recognize this, brother, because you have taught me this which is you framed it up Even when you talked to the beginning of hooks and click baits, like you even framed it up that way. But the deeper frame comes within the story. It's not. What I love about you is how you tell stories and how a story changes the, because what you said is how do I change your perception? And immediately my mind goes to damn. I don't know. I don't know. I don't even learned it from you, but it's like I really don't. I wouldn't even know the answer right away. But this is what is beautiful.
Speaker 2:But I think you guys, you do it intuitively. I mean, you're a successful businessman and you've had to do that by really pointing and deciding what you want people to pay attention to.
Speaker 2:The value of something versus the cost is a shift in perception, right Seeing and understanding a value proposition you over someone else. It's a shift in perception and so we all do it. Children do that all the time and the there's. There's a persuasive nature to just the human experience that you know. You don't have to be formally trained to understand and to learn through trial and error. You can learn by osmosis, having parents that do that. You can learn in so many different ways.
Speaker 2:My wife's mother was telling me a story about her when she was a kid and her dad was a very successful financial advisor, owned a big financial planning firm and I think as a nine-years-old she was taken to see this speaker on negotiation. She's in the front row taking notes and after the speaker speaker she came and went to the mom. Say, hey, mom, um, can I have three cookies? And the mom's like no, you can have one. She's like okay, and she takes her cookie and what she had learned was ask for three, get one, instead of ask for one and get none. Here's nine years old already, picking up on persuasion and influence and use in a way to influence a situation. Some might say manipulate a situation.
Speaker 2:There is a difference between manipulation and influence, but a big difference and if you want me to cover that, I can. So manipulation has some very important criteria. Because I've spent a lot of time talking about this, especially as somebody who is in this world. It's easy for people to think I'm always doing this and there's an ethical component to it, but I'll remind people that we all use the tools that we have available to us at all times. What drives those are ethics and morals and how we apply them.
Speaker 2:And so the difference in manipulation one is the, the, the use of persuasion and influence to an extreme. So the word extreme is important at the expense of someone else and done underhandedly, so there's an extreme nature to it. Someone's going to lose at the expense of someone and they don't even know they're losing. That's manipulation. And so influence is done above ground. It's very, it's in, it's above, above the table, and it's using persuasion and influence to better a situation for both parties. And in that piece, like, if you're, if you're not bettering both parties, then there's a manipulation going on, and so then the betterment. Now, of course, there's a fine line here, because you're playing, you know God, in some ways of deciding good and evil. But I think there's other factors out there say what's good and evil. If I've got to persuade you and influence the hell out of you, and even manipulate you, to stop smoking so that you don't die of cancer, I'm all for it. I'm all for that.
Speaker 1:it all depends on the intent, the outcome and does everybody win your ability to break really complicated things down to simple terms and actionable ways is incredible to me. Yeah, I can tell, because you've done it a ton, though. So this is where this is where my question is, because somebody listens to you. You're so intelligent, you. You can speak and articulate things and write in just a phenomenal way, but has it always come like that? Has there been challenges along the journey?
Speaker 2:yeah, no, it's never like this. Um it, you know and and I still feel like I'm learning. That's the thing it's. So no, the answer is absolutely not, and I got video that can prove it. I've got my own first speaker reels and speaker training sessions where I'm stumbling over my words. Anxiety was at all time high.
Speaker 2:This is a skill, that is, you're not born with it, you're made, you're trained. Just like leadership, they're not, they're not born, they're, they're made. Salespeople are not born, they're made. And yes, there are predisposed pieces that we might have advantages. Maybe it's size, maybe it's an extra, a little more serotonin or more testosterone to keep that. But all of that, through environment training, can be either diminished or can be enhanced. So no, it did not come. I was not the guy who was articulate. So no, it did not come. I was not the guy who was, uh, articulate, uh, I was not the person who was there.
Speaker 2:You know there's a, there's a curse and a gift in all of this right, there's you know what, what you hear me when, when I talk about those things are reflecting contemplations that I sit with for years and things that I just sit and and reflect on and philosophize on and talk about and there's this continual process that kind of goes in to try to understand at the core of what it is. And so, like you're hearing me articulate as a journey, a breadcrumb journey, through each segment of that thought process, each level of it, and there's more to it, and each time I talk about it maybe there's a little more, that I go a little, maybe a quarter inch, that I go on that, or you talk to somebody else, it gives you a totally new perspective and opens up a new door of understanding. I think that's a journey of curiosity and learning and wanting to go through that.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, then practice. I speak more than I should in terms of on the road. In fact, you want to talk about some of the challenges. I'm in the middle of one right now and it's um, it's brutal but it's needed and it's real. And if you want me to go, I don't mean to direct the focus of this but, um, you know, for me, I used to wear as a badge of honor that I spoke 239 days last year and people see me all over social media and they see me speaking and all that validation comes in the validation, the form of okay, so that what I'm doing is working right, cause we all want to know that we're validated in the work that we do. We want to know that what we're doing has an impact.
Speaker 2:And for me, as a speaker who, excuse my language, ate shit for many of those years of the 30 years I've been doing this, you start realizing, man, it's working. And so then you keep going and you say, well, I better make it rain, you know, make it while I can because it might go away. Well, then you find yourself speaking 239 days and then you find yourself with a badge of honor, but then you look at your family and the damage that does. You know they can be supportive, but you see it in their eyes. You see it in the disappointments when you're not at the baseball games. You see it when you know at night when your wife's alone and you're you're at a hotel, and you see it in all of those areas. And so I decided I'm going to drop my travel by 80%. And you know, looking at even screen time like I haven't had my phone in my hand for almost two weeks my team has it they tell me when something's important and that came because I was looking at screen time eight hours plus a day, that's a full day on my phone. Half of that time was on social media and well, people say, well, yeah, but you have your, you know, a million followers here. You're doing this, yeah, of course I can justify that. There's work mixed into there, but there's a lot of not work. There's a lot of just scrolling, looking at memes or things that you know, of course, research and things like that, but nothing that was that important to occupy that much time. And you know, when I look back I go man, I've been this productive on that little actual productive time. What would happen if I just eliminated it and see what life was like. Well, it is quite fascinating when you release the need for those dopamine hits that are happening constantly and the space that's created to think, the space that's created to contemplate, to meditate, to pray, whatever it is that you want to be present at a baseball game to look at the trees, the raindrops there's life happening when we're looking at our screens.
Speaker 2:I did this other exercise yesterday with a group when I took a ruler and I equated the ruler to being 80 years of life and so every centimeter was a certain percentage, and said, okay, I've already lived 48 of those years and I'm going to die at this age, 80 years old. Well, we spend 13, 14 years of our life working. Lop that off. Five years of our life watching TV Lop that off. Five years of our life on social media Lop that off. Sleeping for 13 years Lop that off. Take off what I've already lived. I'm at nine years, yeah, nine years of being present to do things with my family, to travel, and it's like, okay, I need to buy some of that time back. Yep, social media out, tv out things. I mean, like, how do I integrate things like sleep? Okay, home, there we go. I got those years back and so it's like a. It's a, it's an engineering process, of time and the finite nature of it, but it requires massive change.
Speaker 1:Thanks for sharing that, man. That was for me. You know I try to ask as many questions as I can for those who are listening, but I think that that one was for me, the answer was for me, because that's it. It's like you get so tunnel focused and what's crazy is I recognize you even, for I don't believe you were trying to frame is I? I recognize you even for you. I don't believe you were trying to frame that story, but you literally framed the story, cause if you were to tell me Tyler, stopped getting on social media, put your phone away, I'd be like sounds good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you framed it with a story, and then I'll tell you what I prayed about this morning. I'm not joking. Your Renee is to be able to have a clear mind. To be able to, yeah, but a clear mind. Ultimately it's a clear mind, and what you just talked about was a clear mind to recognize things, to contemplate things not to be fed things, but to contemplate them. And yeah, that was awesome, bro. Thank you for sharing that man.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, the thing about framing is, when you learn it and it clicks, it just becomes who you are. You realize that I really want to communicate a message, so that I need to honor that message through the proper process. And you know people saying, well, do I have to frame everything? Well, no, of course not. And you know, if any, if your message is at risk of being misunderstood, or if it's an important message, it might, you know, meet deaf ears and you might want to think about it, or if you might be misunderstood, misframed, yes, you probably should frame it. Well, how much story should I give? The answer is simple as much as necessary. But Well, how?
Speaker 1:much story should I give?
Speaker 2:The answer is simple as much as necessary, but as little as possible. So there's more to that story. I could have gone for four hours on that story, but I think I try to find what that balance is as much as you need and as little as possible and then they can ask questions for more.
Speaker 1:That's what I love about it, because so many people will communicate. I remember you, remind me of John Maxwell, because John John Maxwell, he says things in a certain way, that you remember him because he's great at framing, but he simplifies, simplifies, simplifies, simplifies.
Speaker 1:And I remember I'm sure lots of people can like relate to this, but I remember delivering messages and just being like how did that not land? Like that is fucking gold. What I just did is like what I just said was gold. How did that not land? And it's it, fucking gold. What I just did is like what I just did was gold. How did that not land? And it's, it's. It's the framing, it's the setup, the punchline, tying it back in Right and so people. But what is amazing about that is, if you can just understand that there is a, a actual strategy behind attention and influence, well then you can learn it and implement it, right, right, and you provide that to people, which is which is amazing yeah, yeah, it's it, I think it, just it.
Speaker 2:I look at a lot. It's kind of the visual that I look at frame, if you want. Um is good. People have great ideas that never learned how, and so these great ideas are shackled up in their minds and their hearts. And learning. This tool set can help you unshackle and can help you really truly be free of what's going on.
Speaker 1:So okay, so you listen. We've got a lot of entrepreneurs listening to show, a lot of real estate entrepreneurs A lot of people who listen to this. They are out there pursuing a real estate investment journey. Uh, we focus on multifamily apartment buildings, but all sorts of real estate and they're like I believe a key aspect to connecting with people. Period is your story, not just your story, but you tell your story. But people think they don't have a story. What, what advice would you give to people like that? As to do they have a story? How do they tell their story?
Speaker 2:like actionable things that they could go and, like implement so it's not an easy answer but because the reality is we all have a story. I mean, you got up this morning. There's a story how you got to the car, and that story might have been filled with it was how'd you get to the gym? Well, it could have been easy. I got up, couldn't wait to go, and my friend there and accountability, or it could have been one of those negotiations where you didn't want to go and you contemplate and you find and muster down the the strength to go. There's a story in that. There's a journey in that. There's a story of your parents and how you were born, how you grew up. The story how you got cut from the team. There's a story about how you made a goal and achieved it. There's stories.
Speaker 2:But the problem is is people don't think that we they're like who wants to hear that? Nobody wants to hear that and so we don't. We don't, we don't see ourselves through the eyes of the listener, and what I tell people is that the story is never a comparative process my story versus yours, because there's people that have crazier stories than I do. But that doesn't mean that I can't influence with my story, because what people want is the fingerprint, like who are you? It's not about one fingerprint's prettier than the other, it's just one identifies you Period. It's just an identification process, and if your story, we call them signature stories, those things that are as unique to you as your own signature, and so the best part about those stories is that they're based on memory, and if you can remember them, that means they're memorized. So you just have to recount the story. So I don't have to write it out, I don't have to type it out, I don't have to try to memorize the story that already exists. I just have to hit play on that story. Now, what do I do at the end of that story? What do I do at the beginning of that story?
Speaker 2:Now there's where technique comes in. At the end of the story, you have to understand why we do storytelling in business. By the way, there's a difference between storytelling and business in that sense. There's always and the best stories always have, if you think about it, a moral or a payoff at the end, like Aesop's fables were, all there was a, there's a moral, there was a lesson at the end. So we listened to the story that it seems like nothing there, but there's a lesson that the tortoise and the hare, uh, the story of the sower and reaper right, sowing and reaping, there's, there's, there's so many stories there, but the lessons are why we want the story.
Speaker 2:The story is a delivery vehicle of this golden value, golden knowledge no-transcript. So it just doesn't land. The brain doesn't understand it, because it needs so much more to fully integrate the lessons and the meanings and the visuals and the pictures and and the emotion and the passion and the logic and all of those things that can be articulated in a way that bypasses the resistant parts of the brain, because we're trying to bypass a part of the brain that doesn't want to change homeostasis, the parts of the brain that see strength. Change is parts of the brain that try to protect us from stress. We call system one. And so when we look at that story just bypasses, like the Trojan horse.
Speaker 2:The Trojan horse was a great example of how do you diminish and move past resistance here's a gift. And move past resistance, here's a gift. Now, it was very unethical. But you look at the process to say, okay, there was something, forget about the ethics for a minute on that, I use something to get past your resistance. What if that Trojan horse was full of a message that they needed to hear so that they could eat, they were unwilling to trust that we'd give them good food. We get the trojan horse in there, we get it in there, and now everybody's eating. Now the trojan horse is genius because of the outcome. Now, of course, that was used for death and destruction, but we can still learn from the process of that. And so there's these. You know, that's why that virus is a trojan. You think it's safe, but now it's in and that's causing destruction to your phone or to your uh computer. But the, the concept still in, the, the psychology is still the same. How do you reduce resistance to an idea?
Speaker 1:what's the? So one of the first thing I love that so much you, you can learn from. You know, even though there's destruction on the back, and you can learn, learn from the, the principles of it. So how do you? How do you? I'm curious to how you document your stories, though I took, I'm like taking notes as you're talking. How do you? Because you said there's a story with how you woke up and went to the gym and that I actually believe is it's the everyday shit, that is where the gold is found, that people don't think there's a story. How do you document, remember those?
Speaker 2:well, one document, but then you have to think about the story. To keep it simple, I mean, the book goes in a lot more detail here, but the payoff at the end it's like a joke without a punch line is weird. But why the chicken crossed the road, I don't know I don't know that's pretty funny we just went blank like that.
Speaker 2:I don't know you know, but it's because you know it's coming. It's different, but you know there's a. The punchline is the payoff, and so the lesson, and so what you have to think about is why am I sharing this story? What is what it means? What does it mean to them? And so, and then that comes in the context of what's my objective, what's my influence objective, right? So if I tell my story about my journey through my overuse of social media and screen time, and so I use the frame of, you know, the life on the ruler, that would be sort of a prop, and a visual frame with a story has emotion, which is called pathos, and it's logical because, man, it makes sense and hopefully I have ethos, because I wrote a book, you know credibility, and so I use all the ethos, pathos logos in there, and then I share that story and then I use a very powerful tool called vulnerability. Um, meaning, this is what I'm going through and the thing about you can't dupe vulnerability, like it's a real thing.
Speaker 2:Either you're doing it or you're not and the experience of, like my personal experience of vulnerability is weak and exposed, but the experience of the listener usually is strong and courageous. So there's this paradox of vulnerability, but the true vulnerability brings a sense of authenticity and validation to. This is real. So, at the end of that story, if I wanted to persuade you to and influence you to, move off social media, I might say so. So, tyler, the reason I share that with you is I would challenge you to go look at your screen time and pick one app or one number in there to say what if you would get those 90 minutes a day back? And 90 minutes a day is 45 hours a month, which is over a full week's worth of time. What would you do with that time? And so I know you've been talking to me. Now this is what it really means to me. You've been talking about wanting to work out more. Well, I just gave you 45 hours to go do that. How would you like to spend that time? And so now, all of a sudden, that story means something specifically to you and me helping you influence you to move to a workout If, let's say, I wanted to get you to write a book.
Speaker 2:So, tyler, you've been talking about wanting to write a book and I share with you my story. But here's what this means to you. I want you to go look at your screen time and take let's just find one thing that you do in there. That's 30 minutes a day. So not a lot, it's a lot. Of them are three and four or five hours. In that, 30 minutes a day would be an hour every two days, right? So basically, every 10 days I'm giving you five. So there's 15 days, 15 hours. Excuse me, by 15 hours that I'm giving you right there, a month, you could easily start writing your book in those 15 hours Just by making a 30 minute decision a day. So you see where I'm going with that, right? So it's like what am I trying to influence? And so then, but that the key phrase is a couple of different ways. In the book there's 20 different versions of this phrase.
Speaker 2:What this means to you is this, or the reason I share that story with you is this. Here's why I just shared that, and so it kind of takes it all to this point and it makes it very explicit the lesson, the message, the story, what it means to them, because we need to hear messages through our own selfish ears of what it really does mean to us. And if you don't believe that we're we're selfish consumers of information or of content. Watch yourself scroll Instagram and TikTok. Watch what your thumb does. Your thumb is scrolling all the time, but the thumb is your indicator of that was dumb, that was boring.
Speaker 2:This is stupid. No, no value, no value, no value. And we're making those quick decisions right until something affects us that we want it and then we stop. And so if I can say, stop being such a selfish consumer of content, or I can speak to your needs and what's important to you and magically you'll pay attention. I just but then to know what your needs are, guess what? I have to be really good at listening which most of us are not good at.
Speaker 1:Well, that's so good. I want to be very respectful of your time. Everyone. If you're, if you're listening to this and you're not, if you haven't already bought the book, you're out of your mind Because all this is in the book. Like you just talked about the pathos, the ethos that's all in the book. Like that stuff was huge for me, including those and how that builds trust and credibility and all those kind of things.
Speaker 1:And I'm taking notes as we're going, bro, and one of my biggest takeaways from what you just said was the objective part and then the customization part. It's like, yeah, what's the objective? And you bring it to a point and literally that's what you teach is like this point at the end and that's what drills home. You tell the story to frame it and then the point drills at home, but it's customized to their needs. And I know you do that when you go speak.
Speaker 1:And here's how I know you do that when you go speak, um number one, because I know people that know you and they've told me these kind of things and you're going to be speaking at amcon, you know, on august 16th, and anybody who's listening to this, if you're in the dallas area or you have access to a plane to get to dallas area, you need to go there because you'll see this in person how he delivers it to a point. But he's able to do that because he knows the needs of the people he's speaking to and he does it from research and listening. That's a beautiful thing, it's an amazing thing. It's a self less thing as well. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're very welcome. Yeah, I love it. One of the things I'll end with this, because one of the things that you completely changed my perspective on when I first met you, you mentioned my watch and you said you, you thought it was a certain kind of watch, we're talking about the watch. And then I said, yeah, I'm actually not a watch guy, um, but I've really like I've started to get into it and I think I want to like pull the trigger. And you said listen, if I were to tell you that you had 40 grand, if you had 40 grand in your pocket and then you just moved it to the other pocket, what would that mean to you? And I was like, yeah, did you lose it? I was like, no, it's still there.
Speaker 1:She's like so, if you took 40,000, and then you put it on your wrist, how much money do you have that watch is? And then you started to talk about how the watch doesn't go down and it goes and it's like, oh shit, Okay, Can I pick up with your watch guy?
Speaker 2:I don't know if it's good advice or bad advice, but it was definitely justification right.
Speaker 1:That's it. I loved it, I loved it.
Speaker 2:I think that's the scariest part is when you learn influences, you probably start influencing yourself, and you gotta be really careful of what you're influencing yourself to do so.
Speaker 1:but but, but yeah it's a great conversation yeah, thank you so much for taking the time. Man, I could speak to you for hours. And one more thing that I'll say I tried to get you for peak partnership. We have a big event that we do once a year and I remember I mean I was talking to you like in august or something. Yeah, it was august and you're like, oh no, you were already booked out for those dates, which our event was in fe, march. It was in March and I was blown away that you were booked out that far in advance, which just spoke volumes of your expertise within the area and your ability to deliver value. So, yeah, impressed. So, thank you. So I say that because thank you for taking the time to be on the podcast, because, especially knowing everything that you're going through now and how you're toning things down, it's an honor and I'm very grateful.
Speaker 2:The pleasure is mine, my friend, and let's stay in touch. And, um, I'd like to release this to uh, even on my channel, if that's possible, cause I think this is a conversation I really need to start having more, and just this. Yeah, so, but I really appreciate it, man, I appreciate you reading the book and I appreciate the listeners and it's. You know, when you spend time you know a year writing something and people read it. It's a, it's very meaningful, so I do appreciate you taking the time to read it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you took more than a year writing that man. It might've taken you a year to write it. There's no way you have everything within there that you do in the, in the context and the clarity that you do. That's a lifelong journey that poured into that book and that was evident.
Speaker 2:So thank you. Well, we got another one that's gonna. We're starting the process of getting a new one, so stay tuned hey, awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, put all those links in the in the in the show notes here. Go, follow renee, make sure that you get to uh amp con as well and reneeene. Thank you and everybody else, live aus loha Peace.