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Own the Outcome with Tyler Deveraux
Own the Outcome dives deep into the real stories of resilience and triumph that arise from the depths of failure. Join Tyler Deveraux on a journey of inspiration, growth, and authentic conversation. Within every stumble lies a valuable lesson, a chance for transformation, and a path towards success. Each episode features compelling stories from a diverse range of guests, from entrepreneurs and artists to everyday heroes—all sharing one thing in common: their ability to turn adversity into an opportunity for growth. Because in the end, it's not about avoiding failure; it's about owning the outcome.
Own the Outcome with Tyler Deveraux
Unlock Your Brain's Potential with Angie Noack
Unlock your brain's full potential with the transformative power of neurofeedback. Angie Noack is a clinical mental health counselor who specializes in the groundbreaking approach to mental wellness. In this episode, discover how neurofeedback operates through operant conditioning to forge new neural pathways, offering hope to those grappling with anxiety, depression, ADHD, trauma, PTSD, brain injuries, and sleep issues. Tune in for an episode rich in insights, practical advice, and a heartfelt recognition of the resilience and potential within us all.
Connect with Angie on Instagram
Learn More on Neurofeedback Here
Thank you for listening to today's episode. If this podcast has brought a smile to your face or sparked some new ideas, I'd love to hear from you! Leaving a review would mean the world to me. Appreciate you!
Connect with Tyler on Instagram: @tyler_deveraux
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All right, aloha and welcome to the Only Outcome podcast. My name is Tyler Devereaux and I'm here with Angie Nowak and I'm so excited. Listen, all y'all out there pull out pens, papers, whatever you take notes with, because Angie is a beast in the neuro feedback space and you will learn a ton about what your brain and how to optimize it. So, Angie, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:For sure. Tyler, Thank you so much for having me excited to be on.
Speaker 1:Tell us a little bit about. I definitely want to know a little bit about your background, but I want to dive in some of the nitty gritty with you. I'm actually very excited to grill you with some questions. Your area of expertise is very intriguing to me and I think that it is the unlock to so many things, and I'm sure you also would agree with that. But tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get into this space?
Speaker 2:first, For sure. Yeah, so I by trade I'm a clinical mental health counselor, so I'm licensed in clinical mental health, master's in clinical mental health and honestly I feel like neuro kind of found me that I had, you know, a personal experience with a brain thing a long time ago and I can, you know, kind of get into that later, no-transcript, and it's the freaking best.
Speaker 1:Okay, so take it from your knowledge level down to like an elementary level, because I loved how you explained it to me too, but what you help people do.
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Neurofeedback is ultimately operant conditioning of the brain. Right, we're optimizing the brain. So anything from anxiety, depression, add, trauma, ptsd, brain injury, sleep issues all of those things a lot of times we kind of have as a culture and medication mentality, right, like, hey, my only options for anxiety are medication or counseling you know, that kind of is what it is or like maybe some meditation I can try to, you know, handle it naturally or whatever that looks like. And ultimately those are not the only options.
Speaker 2:Right, our brain, it's an organ, but it works like a muscle, in that we can flex it and we can change it and we can grow it. Right, so, really, neurofeedback is a way to create physiological new neural pathways in the brain through reward based training and literally teaching your brain to do all of those things better and differently, Like if you need to focus better. We work a lot with professional athletes who already think that they're the best thing ever, right? But they know that you know, maybe, neck down, they are comparable to all of these other amazing athletes. So how do they get that 1% right? Their brain, their brain, is absolutely their best asset If you can be faster and quicker and better and your memory more crisp or you can recover from a concussion faster. You're the better athlete.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, you know Jim quick is. I'm sure you know Jim quick is. Jim recently spoke at one of our events and he obviously talks very much about the same thing. You know re or similar things, but rewiring some of the brain and how you do that and truly like, how did you say neural pathways and creating new ones, correct?
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:So which is so powerful? Because sometimes I don't think that you know you would. One thing is you had mentioned you'd said you know a lot of people focus on their physical side but they don't focus on the neck up. Yeah, so, and I believe you can you tell me if I'm wrong but I believe it's because they don't know what to do. Like I know, if I go to the gym I do some bench presses, squats, whatever, but like, how do I work on my brain?
Speaker 2:Oh, tyler, you're exactly right that I think if people knew how, I believe that they would do it Right. Um, a lot of times do that. People don't go to the gym because it's intimidating, they might not know what to do. They don't eat healthy because they really need, like, some help and somebody just come alongside them. That's why we have coaches, that's why we have nutritionists For our brain. What do we have, right? We have neurospecialists. So what I do?
Speaker 2:So kind of to walk you through a little bit about you know, kind of the who we are and the what we do, we always start with a baseline QEEG brain map. It's a quantitative electroencephalogram, so it's on the same playing field as a CT or an MRI or an EEG, except that we're not only looking for structural damage in the brain, right? So it's not that we won't see it if somebody has had a brain injury or a concussion or something. It's not that we're not going to see that, it's just that that's not the only thing that we're looking for. We're looking at the electrical and the neurological wave activity happening in the brain and literally everything is going to show itself to us in neurological patterns, right?
Speaker 2:I hear from a lot of like middle-aged dudes, like I don't have a concussion history. I'm like, oh, did you play football and you know? High school, yeah, and in college I'm like, oh, so no concussion, okay, and that's fine, because back then we called it like getting your bell rung right, yeah, but your brain doesn't forget. And then I look at the brain map and I'm like, actually we do have a concussion history. Do you have issues with sleep, with focus? Are you kind of grumpy? Well, yeah, you know all those things. Are you know kind of these little like imprints on the brain that leave that same thing.
Speaker 2:If we have really early developmental trauma, even if you know earlier, at later as an adult, we're like, hey, I've addressed that, I know my triggers, whatever. It's not that that is erased from the brain, right, there's a book called the body keeps the score by vessel Vander Kolk, and it talks about how, basically, we hold trauma on like a cellular level. So, ultimately, how do we address that? Right, we, sometimes we could talk ourselves to death, go to counseling for 10 years, well, but I still deal with all of these things. So how do I change that? And neuro really is kind of a backdoor way into addressing it on that neurological level.
Speaker 2:So our brains are kind of like computers, right they're. They literally are like the most amazing computers. If we have a software update, great counseling, you know, maybe some meds, maybe some meditation, you know all these things. Eating right, drinking water Great, those are all software updates for a computer. If we have a hardware issue, a software update is never going to touch that really. We have to get into the hardware and that's the neuro. So when people actually come to us for let me stop there Any questions about that?
Speaker 1:No, you're killing it. No, I'm like I'm already. I'll tell you that I'm already so pumped to really listen to this episode. I'm serious, like I geek out about this stuff. I love this kind of stuff. I literally believe that it is. Well, it's been, a game changer for me, and I don't even know a fraction of what you know. Which listen. You're here. I know my listeners will back, will benefit from it a ton, but you're here because, well, I'm interested, yeah, and I hope that they are too. Which they are.
Speaker 2:So we can get you know. We want the information as well. We want to meet cool people, we want to know the stuff. I totally agree. But yeah, so that's that's how we start is with that brain map, and that really is a map for us, right? We need to know.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, anxiety alone can come from 50 different patterns in the brain. So rather than guessing what's going on in your brain, I could right, if I talk to you for a couple of minutes, I can probably give you an idea of what your brain pattern is. I'd rather know for sure, right? This is not medication throwing spaghetti against a wall and seeing what sticks. I want to know. So the brain map is how we know. It really gives us, you know, kind of exactly that map and that guide to say, okay, here's what we're going in for.
Speaker 2:And then the actual neurofeedback is operant conditioning of the brain. It is reward based training. We're teaching the brain to create new neural pathways. So, whether we do have a global remote program as well as we do have offices in the Denver metro area, in Tulsa, oklahoma, and in Dallas, texas, and so you can either come in person or you can do it remotely, no matter what you always have and I have a remote headset with me. If you come in person, we place little electrodes on your head with remote. The electrodes are already embedded into the system. Never, ever, is there any electrical stimulus going into your brain. So this is not some weird shock, anything. Just to clarify, not putting anything in. The electrodes are picking up information. They're monitoring and reading what the brain is doing. So electrodes are going to pick it up. It's going to go into an amplifier, into software and then be fed back to that person through visual and auditory forms of reward watching, listening. Those things are truly working as a mirror for our brains, that our brains get to experience in real time what it's doing and training itself. Like if we've ever given a speech or done Toastmasters or something people tell us to practice in front of a mirror so that we can correct behavioral things right, like, well, what's my face doing? Why are my hands so awkward? Like we correct behavioral things With neurofeedback, we're correcting neurological things and we're doing it with reward. So somebody might be, you know, playing a game, brain game. They might be watching a show. I have a ton of different visuals.
Speaker 2:It's a very passive, very enjoyable form of learning, but it's not controlled by thoughts and that's kind of honestly, our culture is like mind over matter. You think it, be it, and I'm here for that, like I'm, I'm here for the affirmations. Do all the things at the end of the day, right? If you, let's say, you, struggle with insomnia, I bet you tell yourself every night I'm going to sleep. Great, tonight, come on, tonight's, the night, all night, I'm going to sleep so good, I'm going to wake up, our ring's going to be popping. And you wake up the next day and it's like, don't worry, it'll get better. You know, no REM, no deep, okay, you know, but I'm, I'm not going to be anxious today, right, like no heart palpitations, I'm going to feel so good, so positive.
Speaker 2:And then something happens or nothing happens, and we feel like crap, right, brain racing, panic attack. Well, what the heck? We said we weren't going to do this. Are you not strong enough? Can you not just make that happen? No shot, right? Our thoughts are not controlling that. Those the brain takes the path of least resistance, those are automatic, deeply ingrained neural pathways in in our brain and we need to release ourselves of this kind of you know idea that it that it's you know, if you want it, you know bad enough. You can just, you know, overcome anxiety or depression or brain injuries or something. Wake up tomorrow and forget how to walk. If you could do that right, then, like you've proven me wrong, end of discussion. Like you got it. No, that is right. It is equally as deeply ingrained. So, rather than trying to, you know, pretend like we can erase it, we need to create something new.
Speaker 1:What is up y'all Listen. If this podcast has brought joy or value at some point as you're listening to it, we would love it if you would be so kind as to leave us a review down below. That is how we keep this thing moving and finding individuals just like you to pour value into. Now let's get back to the show.
Speaker 2:So every time that somebody puts on the headset or has electrodes on and has the visual essentially aspects of the auditory that they're listening to and aspects of the visual that they're watching are feeding them novelty forms of reward. Video games are like the best way ever to well, actually, social media probably, but either one are the best way to describe novelty reward. Why do we even like it? Why does it matter? You don't get anything. If you win a video game, nobody runs in the room and is like here's your cookie or your cash, right, like no way. It's lights and it sounds and it's action, it's hearts, it's likes hey, you win.
Speaker 2:It's little dumps of dopamine for our brain. So with neurofeedback, I'm only giving the brain those little dumps of dopamine when it's producing the wave activity that's favorable to you. Right that we're asking for your brain, every brain on the planet. I train kids with autism. We train kids with down syndrome. Every brain on the planet wants reward. So the minute it starts receiving even a hurt of micro voltage and what we're asking for, the screen will get brighter, volume will go up. All these things happen, telling the brain Ooh, yeah, here's your little dump of dopamine. This feels good. I want more of that and we're going to do those things enough times over time that we're going to ingrain that new pattern, those new patterns, as we're creating multiple to permanency in the brain. So neurofeedback should not be forever right. It's a tool. It's not like medication. It doesn't have a shelf life in the body. It's teaching the brain to do it on its own.
Speaker 1:So you're literally watching the brain. So that device that you showed because that was going to be one of my questions is you do it remotely, because I knew that you had the remote program. And how do you do that remotely? So you actually ship the device, OK? So, as you have this device, OK, then it's attached to the phone the app on the phone Yep. And then it's attached to the phone the app on the phone Yep and then you're literally watching what the brain is doing, and then you are. You are on your end, or am?
Speaker 2:I, on my end, putting in those dopamine hits when it's doing what we want it to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we've programmed the systems right that when, um, so you're watching, and you're watching something passive, right, like you could be watching a cooking show, you could be playing a brain game. So you're watching, and you're watching something passive, right, like you could be watching a cooking show, you could be playing a brain game. So you're not just watching, like you know, like something weird. You're watching something that should be pretty passive, pretty enjoyable, because, again, it's not about thought, so it's not like I'm going to make this happen, right, you honestly have to get out of your own way and let your brain, on that like deepest of neurological level kind of take over, deepest of neurological level kind of take over, it's your passive brain, not your cognitive brain.
Speaker 2:But you're exactly right that your brain is literally watching what it's doing, being fed back to it, and when it's not doing what we're asking it for, let's say that you struggle with anxiety. If your brain's just firing off all of this high beta, which is fast wave activity, it's not going to get anything right. Your little plane's puttering along, your volumes low, your screen is dark, but the minute your brain goes but I want something else and starts firing off different wave activity to seek that reward Ooh, now it got a little bit of theta slow, calming, rewarding wave activity the screen will get brighter. Your brain, like I said, will be flooded with all of that dopamine, giving it that reward.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So can you, what would you suggest to somebody who, let's say, they want to try to rewrite, rewire their brain and they want to put it in daily activities or something, some form of habit or something that they can help I don't know rewire those things or do those things? Do you have advice on that as well?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, absolutely. I mean, neurofeedback is one aspect of rewiring the brain. I think it's an amazing tool.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, it's so awesome. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:But also, we don't have to have like fancy equipment to be able to start rewiring our brain, right? If you've read the book Atomic Habits, it literally goes into all of this on that neurological level, right, that we make literally a billion decisions every day. So if you're wanting to add in like new habits rather than saying like I'm gonna go to the gym every single day, you know what I'm gonna do tomorrow, I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna have my gym clothes laid out. I did that last night. That was step one, okay.
Speaker 1:Now I'm going to put on my gym clothes.
Speaker 2:Okay, great, I feel cuter, you know, going to the gym when I'm wearing a cute little set. Okay, so I'm going to pick out something that Angie looks hot in, because that's going to make me want to go to the gym a little bit more. You know what I feel really good about my little little things that are micro changes that create macro expressions, right, and create things. Sorry, oh my gosh, please do.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I want to drill home on that because you know I don't believe that I'm just more disciplined than people or something like that. What I have is systems and what you just mentioned. I will tell you that if, like, even with my journal, I use like a daily journal, right, but I'll tell you, if this is in my bag, I never use it, and I mean never, like I'm telling you I don't do it. But if it, if it is on my counter open, it has to be open to with the pens on top of it. I'll journal every morning.
Speaker 1:So what do I do the night before? I just do that, and what you just mentioned, I do the exact same thing. So the first thing that I do when I wake up, like you know, wash my face or whatever. But then literally the next step, I, like you know, wash my face or whatever, but then literally the next step I don't care how I feel is I'm putting on my gym clothes, because I do one or two things every day either go to the gym or I go surf, just depending if there's a swell. So, whatever I'm going to go, do I put that on, and it's. If I don't put them on. I'm like I'm going to wait Cause I'm going to read and stuff. I then I do not go, I procrastinate and don't go. That's it, that's right, even though I love to go to the gym. It's like I've created a system that I know that if I put my gym clothes on, I'm going to go, like I'm going to go, that's it.
Speaker 2:And you're right, I love what you said Systems You've created systems. If we just magically expect things to happen without creating systems like I don't know who, I don't know who it is who can just magically wake up tomorrow and be like now I'm a gym person. We start slow, right. We start with these really micro habits, these micro systems that then create larger. I'm doing my best friend and business partner, rachel Lambert. She lives in Tulsa, I live in Denver, we're doing deep core together because we need to be shredded by Christmas and I my gym is in my basement and at the end of the day, my deep core is like 15 minutes. I put my mat right in front of my table. I'm looking at my weights, my little five pound weights right now that I do deep core with, because that is a visual reminder every day Like, have you done your freaking deep core yet, angie, if it's in the basement?
Speaker 1:I wouldn't see it Right. So, micro changes, that's it. I love it. And you know, I think that's where people get off the path too, because they'll. They'll be like, okay, damn it, I'm changing my life, I'm going to, I'm going to go to the gym an hour a day, but it's a lot. Like you said, your brain's working against you all the time. Your brain's like F, that, like this, trying to conserve energy all the time. But if you're just like, you know what, I'm just going to put my gym clothes on. I'm just going to put my gym clothes on. Maybe I'll go to the gym, maybe I won't Guess what. The chances of you going to the gym are great. Hey, I'm just going to go to the gym in the beginning. I'm just going to go for 10 minutes, okay, well, it's easier, that's it.
Speaker 1:And then listen, I'm going do it at the gym, yes, and then the chances you make it there and chances you're gonna do more than that. But if you don't dude, celebrate it like I'm not joking. There's a day where I wanted to have a consistent, like I wanted to build the consistency, and so I wasn't feeling good, did not want to go, but I went, I walked for like 0.2 miles, sat in the sauna for I don't know five minutes and I walked out the door. I'm like you, badass, you crushed it. You know, because I made it, I kept the consistency going, that's right.
Speaker 2:I absolutely have gone to lifetime before and done a sauna and left, like you know what, though it is what it is, it felt good I needed it. I sweat a lot.
Speaker 1:I. It is what it is. It felt good, I needed it. I sweat a lot. I'm like check, that's it. You're a winner, that's it, and you're continuing to feed the habit that you're trying to create. I love it so okay. So smaller, broken down steps. Any other advice on what you would just hacks, hacks that you would give people? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I have. So all my hacks are going to be neuro hacks, obviously. So, for people who are struggling with any type of like focus or motivation issues, right Ways to engage your prefrontal cortex, anything that you're doing. So maybe like before a big meeting, if you need to give a presentation, something like that, you want the CEO of your brain, which is your prefrontal cortex online, running hot. Anything that you're doing that is bilateral, okay, so rather it's like cross crawling, if you like working out, maybe do some burpees. Um, if you do Jitsu, like anything that is working cross body, uh, jumping jacks utilizing both hemispheres of the brain, is going to start to utilize and like really get your prefrontal cortex online. Do a couple of math problems. Like literally pull up a basic like algebra sheet. If you're like what the frick is algebra, multiple multiplication, like anything, that is going to start to get your prefrontal cortex online. So if you're somebody you're going into a meeting and you're like I just have a harder time staying focused, right, everybody and their mom's like I have ADD, maybe you do, maybe you don't, I haven't looked at your brain, but that's a really great way to kind of get your prefrontal cortex engaged.
Speaker 2:If you are going into a meeting that you're having like you're feeling stressed about, right. Maybe you don't associate with the word anxiety. That's cool If you're feeling a little bit like heightened maybe, ruminating about it, worrying about it, chest tightness about it. Try either box breathing, also known as combat breathing, where you literally breathe in for four, hold it for four, breathe out for four, hold it for four Great way to start regulating your central nervous system and your autonomic nervous system. Or try bilateral stimulation tapping so tapping on either side either hemisphere of your brain. You can tap anywhere. You can tap on your legs. If you're in a meeting you don't want somebody to see. It's physiologically going to disrupt the stress signal in your brain and help to bring you back to homeostasis faster.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I want to. Well, you went through a quick, I just want to break it down. So you said stress or anxiety or whatever's the, the tapping stuff bilateral stimulation, tapping stress and anxiety for sure okay. And then the other one is um, when you're getting ready to go into a meeting or gonna go speaking event or something, you know talking to an investor or whatever it is you're, you said it it's so you want to utilize like anything bilateral like of stimulation of the brain.
Speaker 2:So cross crawling, jumping jacks, burpees are going to be really good. Do like math problems. Obviously, I don't think everybody brings around like a physical puzzle to do on their table. That would be a really great way. If you're a nerd like me and you have puzzles on your table, which is cool like you do you, that's a really great way. Sudoku on your phone, All of those things are going to engage your prefrontal cortex and just help you be that much like better and faster in your meeting.
Speaker 1:You know, you know what's crazy is things that I do I have this, things that I do that I didn't realize that that's I would tell. So I do a bunch of speaking engagements and when I do those I have a specific routine that I walk through and it's just, but it's. I'm a routine person, so like that's just what I do and I will tell you, I will tell people like my mind is, like it's, it's most clear, most, like it's on when I'm doing that, like it's the sharpest when I'm doing that. But those little things you just mentioned, I do those things and I don't, I didn't know. Like sometimes you do them, you don't realize what you're doing. I'm sure that somebody mentioned that to me at some point, or maybe I tried it at some point, and I went.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't really know. It's honestly probably that you tried it and your brain responded to it. Like you say, I'm my most on absolutely your. Your prefrontal cortex is firing. But our brain is like a machine and if you train that machine, well, if you train that animal, that beast, that muscle, it's going to respond for you the way that you want it to. If we train it to be, you know these other ways and not intentionally right but if we train it to pull back and to pull away and to be fearful, it will do that. If you train it to lean in, it will do that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you said you store trauma in the brain or the body. You said the body keeps score or keeps track or something. What are the different types of traumas that we store? I know that might be a very broad question, but yeah.
Speaker 2:That is such a broad question and, you know, honestly, it depends on the person I mean earlier development.
Speaker 1:Give me your. You know, you've, you've listened to, you know, late night. What are those? You know? Hey, are you feeling stressed, anxious? Don't have enough time. Like you know, they check off all those things that are what are those? Things, I'm all those things. Should I need all those things?
Speaker 2:Everything, every single one. So I mean earlier developmental trauma, so familial, nuclear family trauma, absent parent, parent divorced, adoption. There's also inner utero trauma. So maybe you know mom was highly stressed or went through something when you were in utero, different things like that. So it's early developmental trauma. There's then, like later trauma, right, so that we might not have cognitive memory of, but our brains, our bodies will still respond as if we have experienced that trauma. They also show in different areas of the brain so we can tell what's early developmental versus later.
Speaker 2:There's PTSD trauma, right, I got into a horrible car accident. I almost died, my husband died, my girlfriend died, my who, what? My parent, you know whatever PTSD style trauma. I was in a shooting, something like that. That's more kind of inflicted on us, if you will, also shows itself differently. There's prolonged stress, right. That just like if you are in a highly stressful situation and you don't really manage it super well or don't know how to manage it super well, prolonged stress over time is can be traumatic for the brain. So you know it is a really broad question and also you know that something that you might experience. You know you might think that was not traumatic for me. I didn't experience it and somebody else might experience a similar situation and experience it, you know, very traumatically. So that also depends on you know our brain, our background and how we experience things.
Speaker 1:How often do you have you nailed it? You, literally, that was exactly what I was looking for. But how? How often do you have something that they don't think that it caused trauma? But then, when you, you know, start to map their mind, you realize like no, it actually did, you just learned how to cope with it or deal with it, or you or you stuff it, or or we just shove that down and are like that didn't affect me at all.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, how are your relationships Terrible? Okay, well, you know it honestly, some yes, some no. I think that you know. Truly, I believe, as human beings, we do the best we can, right, you know, and some people have a higher capacity than others for certain things. That's okay. We work a lot with first responder organizations fire, police who, I mean, experience very, very horrifically traumatic situations and they have to go back and do it again tomorrow, right? So they don't, they don't have like the time or the luxury to like that was the worst thing ever.
Speaker 2:I'm going to sit on. I'm going to sit on that for a while. There are, you know, high rates of alcoholism among you know, first responder organizations, things like that. So, you know, sometimes we're coping with it not so well. Neurofeedback truly is a way to, you know, kind of get in there and and like, work on it and heal it. But yes, I have those conversations all the time where I met people and I'm like, hey, wow, you know, we're seeing a lot of fast wave activity. Okay, here's the symptomology around that. I'm not using the word PTSD. But I'm explaining it and it's like, yeah, I experienced all those things. But if I were to say do you feel like you have PTSD? Absolutely not, and that's fine, right If. If that's not something you associate with, that's okay.
Speaker 1:How long has this technology been around? Like, do you? Do you feel like sometimes you're like, hey, let me tell you about you.
Speaker 2:Actually a lot of times I'll say in like a map review hey, I'm probably not going to tell you anything you don't already know about yourself, but it's so validating, it's like a visual form of grace, just to see it where it's not just in my head, I mean it is, but it's happening in your brain. Neurofeedback actually started in the 1940s as really a way to train out epilepsy in the brain and help people with epileptic seizures. I do still work. I have people with you know epileptic discharge in the brain and help people with epileptic seizures. Um, I do still work. I have people with you know epileptic discharge in the brain. I see people often with that. It's not as common now. As you know. Medication really, in a lot of ways, is a lot more um, popular, I would say among you know epilepsy clients. Uh, but yeah, it started in the 1940s. I would say probably in the last 30 years.
Speaker 1:Though the research and the research studies that have been done give neurofeedback a lot more credit and a lot more efficacy as to what it's, what it's able to do so, so you had, you said that it pretty much found you, or you know, I think the verbiage that you said, yeah, the the title of the podcast is own the outcome podcast, which is well, I well, I would even ask you, like, what does that mean to you to own the outcome? And then, as you're thinking about that, it's a challenge. You know, challenges like challenges happen, and how do you have you had challenges in your life and is that what maybe led you here, what called you here? And then how did you own the outcome in your own life?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So when I was 19, um, I it was my sophomore year of college between my sophomore and junior year, I went home for the summer to visit my family, went and donated blood and when I left I um passed out. I had given blood many times before, so honestly, it was just kind of a free thing. And the way in which I fell, I fell on linoleum over cement and ended up fracturing my skull down the occipital plate. I was in intensive care for quite a while Upon being released. Eventually I was released in a walker, didn't walk on my own for a while, didn't go back to college for a while.
Speaker 2:If anyone has ever experienced like a pretty severe traumatic brain injury, it's. It's very bizarre that, you know, you, I like my legs work but they don't work right. Like my brain works but it doesn't work. So it's not something like your arm is broken, you're wearing a cast, so you can see that it's very kind of like a, a hidden injury. Um, and honestly before, I will say before that I was just you know, for lack of a better term dicking around in college doing whatever, like you know, having myself a nice little college partay, and honestly, that experience like it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I so went through a lot of different types of like neurological therapy and physical therapy and occupational, and fought my way back and went back to college and carried a 4.0 through the rest of college, undergrad, then into graduate school and you know that it's not because I'm some like miraculous person.
Speaker 2:I honestly, like I knew that that was not my story, that was not my limitation, that was like the. That was the start. It was only up from there, I believe that I am capable of doing absolutely anything. I also have an incredible family. Like my mom sat me down with my neurosurgeon and was like okay, you know not. Like oh, there was no, there was no pity party, there was no like you're injured. It was like what do we need to do to get better? How are we going to make this happen?
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's a little bit about my story. So I was, honestly, I had a pretty heavy neurological base, um, and then you know the world, whether you believe in God or the universe or whatever that is for you. Like that came back to me very full circle when neuro was presented to me. Um, and I can vividly remember the first person the first, you know patient sitting up across from me who had a traumatic brain injury and was struggling, and I was like there. It is Like that's that's why I went through what I went through, because I don't know what you're going through. No one will ever know what you're going through, but I can empathize on a different level because I've been there. Um, so yeah, it was um. That's a little bit about my story and how it truly I mean it like neuro found me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. You said empathize, and that's. You know, I have a good buddy. His name is Rory Vaden and Rory he said, he says you're most uniquely qualified to serve the people you once were, or something like that, and and it's so true, and it's because you can find empathy in their situation. I love how you also mentioned you don't know what they're going through, but you know they're going through something because you've went through it. But you also can give them hope just by being you because you've overcome it. I think that's just a beautiful way to approach challenges, like any challenge. That I believe that this is one of my superpowers is it doesn't matter the challenge. It's like, and it really doesn't. It doesn't matter the challenge, it's like when I get through this man, I'm going to be able to help so many people do this. When I get through this man, it's going to help this story here. It's like. I love how you said this wasn't. I knew this wasn't my story. This was what creates the story. Even that shift is so beautiful, you know.
Speaker 2:Thank you and, honestly, you're exactly right and I do believe that there are some people who that is their whole story and that was absolutely not going to be my whole story.
Speaker 2:It's a part of it, it always will be and, honestly, it's a beautiful part of it. If I could go back and change it, I absolutely would not. In no way would I change it, because it propelled me to be exactly who I am now and allowed me to have that impact that I have now, who I am now, and allowed me to have that impact that I have now. Actually, rachel and I also do keynote speaking, which I freaking love and being able to share that story because, you're right, honestly, a couple of blondes walking on stage talking about neuro and you know like it's maybe not super relatable, rachel has a really incredible testimony, like I've come from, where I've come from, and honestly, I'm so thankful for that background and that platform to be able to share what we're able to share, and I believe that it just allows me to to have, you know, that kind of an impact, especially on that population. And, yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it for the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what's. That's. What's cool about keynote speaking or just speaking period, is people have these preconceived notions, but as you're able to share your story, number one, that's how you connect. But you're able to help them understand, like no, that story that you're telling yourself and that things are just all perfectly perfect here. No, no, no. Let me actually open the kimono and show you, like no, it's not it's not real.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it doesn't matter. You know what your skin tone, your hair color, your you know, it doesn't matter, dude, everyone has challenges, that everyone have problems. Everyone has. And it's how do we use this to man? To not just get through those, but thrive through those, become stronger through those right, that's exactly right that are we just surviving all the time?
Speaker 2:or, you know, do we take our challenges and literally use them as fuel to the fire to propel us to whatever? Whatever we want, whatever's going to make us great and I use great as a loose term whatever you consider to be great?
Speaker 1:A hundred percent, a hundred percent. So how does somebody get ahold of you first off, what's the what's their process? And walk me through that process.
Speaker 2:For sure. So Rachel and I actually do a hundred percent of consultations for brain code centers. Do we have the time to do that? No, I love educating. That's like my favorite part of anything that I get to do.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, just like you said, offering hope that we get a lot of. I love when people come to us and are just like at that place, I'm like, hey, I have something that I believe can transform your life. Um, so we do a hundred percent of the consultations. We do have what I consider to be a bump in Instagram. Am I good at Instagram? No, do we try really hard? Yes, um. So at brain code centers plural um is our Instagram. Um, brain code centerscom is our website. But if you at on any of those you know platforms are like hey, you know, I want to chat with somebody. Our consultations are a hundred percent free. Um, so I will not charge you anything to basically just find out what your options are, you know, and kind of what neurofeedback could do for you. Um, or just, if you're like, hey, I don't really want to do it, I just want to know more, great, let's chat and talk about you and and understand you know, kind of what your goals are.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, those are probably the two best places, either on Instagram or our um or our website. I love it. We'll put all those links. We'll put those links into the, the show notes and everything like that. So big part of my network we deal with, you know, newer investors who are? We buy apartment buildings. That's like what I train and teach people how to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I believe so our tagline is think bigger. The reason that's our tagline is because my life truly shifted when I allowed myself to enhance my belief and then that's continually shifting along the way, right, like it's not just this slope up, it's like you drop down and you reconnect and you back up. But I believe so many people doubt their abilities along the way. So how do you you know somebody's, how do you correct yourself? Personally, you know you have some doubt in the journey, or you find someone that's having some doubt in the journey. How do you correct, or how have you seen people correct themselves to be able to once again, you know, uh, you know create a new neural pathway or a new way to actually, just like, enhance your belief?
Speaker 2:Totally. I call it reframing. And I do this, rachel, and I do this. Fortunately, again, I am blessed I get to work with. My best friend is, if you're not doing it, I feel like you're doing it wrong, that it's the freaking coolest. But all the time I mean managing people is hard. Managing a company, running a company, is hard and all the time you know we'll get into places where you know we might have some negative thinking, right that man? I feel frustrated about this, the what's going on here, but and we constantly challenge each other let's reframe that. Hey, I am blessed every single day that I get to manage people. I get to be a better leader. They challenged me to be a better leader.
Speaker 2:I believe this is my first career. I'll believe I'll have another. I want to learn everything I can in this career. So throw it at me. I want all of the hard things now so that I can be better, moving forward. Right, can I sit here and be like I was a piece of crap today? I was the worst leader ever. I, you know, all my employees suck whatever. Absolutely. You can sit there and have that mindset. Reframe that too. I am so thankful that I get to do this every single day, right? So we constantly are challenging each other. I would challenge anybody that I don't care what situation you're in, reframe that immediately and I believe that you can find some kind of a silver lining or at least something that like hey, this is going to be a learning experience. Man, it sucks. Now I know that it's going to make me better moving forward.
Speaker 1:So good, so good. One of my, one of my good buddies his name is Dallas Pruitt. He's actually one of my mental skills mental training coaches that I work with, and what an exercise that he guided me through that I still implement to this day. All the time is I will take, okay, what are these things that I'm saying, these beliefs, these you know the verbiage that's in my head fear, whatever it is and I'll list them out on a piece of paper, and I'll do this when I'm feeling very overwhelmed or anxious, or stressed, or whatever you want to call it right. So this is what I'll do I'll literally sit down and I'll list out these things that are going through my head, and then the exercise is to how is that actually a positive, this thing that you're viewing as a negative? How, how is it actually a positive? And that is. That is a beautiful, beautiful exercise, and I'll give you an example.
Speaker 1:It just happened. Well, my wife did it to me actually, just the other day. I there was, um, what I'm going through? A challenge right now, that is just, it's a frustrating challenge and I was in bed, laying in bed, like my eye mask is on, and I literally was like you know, it's just like I feel like I've been a burden because I've had to travel so much. I've had to be guys, like I'm doing a partnership buyout and the partner is, uh, extremely, uh, disruptive, and so my office is in orlando, by the way, other side of the world, and so I've had to, like, go out there and travel back. So I just feel like I've been a burden to my family.
Speaker 1:And I said this to my wife. I said like, literally, I'm asses on, I'm laying in bed and it's like, oh, so sorry, I'm so sorry for putting you in this situation. And she says like this fast. She says, maybe emotionally, thinking about it, but she said, she said, yeah, no, seriously, though, thank you for putting me in a situation, thank you for putting us in a situation to move to Maui, thank you for putting us in a situation to live in this beautiful home, thank you for putting us in a situation to be able to give so much back, so much back to the community, thank you for putting us in a situation to be able to be able to travel and have these life experiences. And she just starts listing off all these things. I'm just in tears, you know, like what a beautiful way to reframe it in the moment. I wasn't thinking of it like I just came to me as you're saying it.
Speaker 2:But dude, it was beautiful in the moment reframe that real quick, quick yeah and to hear that coming from like your person and somebody that you trust, I bet that impacted so deeply.
Speaker 1:Deep, deep. I'll give you another example. I was. I lost one of my right as we found out that we're, that she was going to have a baby.
Speaker 1:That and that's the only thing I ever knew I wanted to be was a dad. Like I'm so excited about it, but at that same time I lost my biggest clients that I had at the point. I had a web design, web hosting business and I just lost the biggest client that I had, which is that was a blow. At that point, yeah, so brick comes on and I'm like I learned about that first thing in the morning and I'm just like so stressed to talk to Brittany about this because I'm like oh my gosh, like it's going to stress her out, and I say I tell her what happens and this is her knee jerk.
Speaker 1:She didn't say we better figure that shit out. We've got a kid on the way, she said. She laughs and she goes oh my gosh, what a, what a dipshit. You're a bad-ass, you'll figure it out. I have no, I have no doubt about it. Just like that's all I needed to hear in the moment. And I figured it out and like life went, took off from there. But it's because the reframe that reframe thing that you just mentioned is so powerful.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it's so powerful because we we are what we speak into ourselves, right, and we are the average of the five people we spend the most time with. Imagine if she had said to you like well, you better, absolutely you better, figure that out. Our family depends on you. What were you thinking? That then feeds into that belief. You have chosen to surround yourself with people who reframe when you're, when you're not in that spot. Right, that's another life freaking hat. Get put people around you who are challenging you to be better every single day, and when you're not in that headspace, they put you back in it. No question, hmm.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's true love, like that. They actually challenge you to put it back in Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. They say the things that you know maybe are true, but you're just not in that headspace to believe at that point. So they speak that into you and put it like they'll reframe it for you. Maybe they'll challenge you to reframe it yourself. It sounds like your wife she knows you so well she's like I'm actually going to reframe that for you right now.
Speaker 1:You know what? All right, all right, my investment company, our tagline there is invest with Aloha and people will know Aloha is hello, goodbye, but it is. But when you really break down the meaning of Aloha, you'll love this. Alo means to see, and ha is breath of life. This Alo means to see and ha is breath of life. So so you'll notice, when you say aloha, a lot of people will say it back. And it's because when I'm saying aloha, I'm saying I see the God in you and it's reciprocal. I know, if I seen the God in you, you see the God in me, and if I don't, if I see you not living up to your potential, the God in you, I'm going to ha, breathe life into you.
Speaker 2:That's what aloha really means. That's true love. I like love. That that is absolutely and not, and I truly believe that, like not only with your spouse or your person, but with, again, the five, the people you, your inner circle, should be breathing life into you every single day. And if they're not, I think you like challenge yourself about your inner circle.
Speaker 1:That's it. So what would you tell them? This is maybe my last question. I don't want to be irrespective of your time, but because I have these conversations and people would be like, oh man, but I don't want to like ditch them. I want to, I don't want to ditch them, I don't want to like feel like I'm leaving them, what would you say to that person?
Speaker 2:Honestly, that is so hard and as I have gotten older, I mean truly, I'd say in the last couple of years like you could consider it like loss of friendships or just like incongruency, right, that when things stop serving as well. I don't believe that it's like cutting people off. Challenge them, Right, like hey, one, I'm really big on transparency and having very open conversations probably all honestly, to a fault, if you are feeling that way, have you challenged that person? You talk to them about it? Hey, here's how I feel when we're together. Like, do you feel that? Does this feel really negative? Does this feel down? Like you know what's going on? One, okay, so then do we challenge each other to be better?
Speaker 1:And if that, person's not in it to win it with you in that you meet.
Speaker 2:You see, you know, once in a while maybe that's someone that you hang out with. You know it's like every so often, but, creating those boundaries, no one will protect you, but you, honestly. So if you feel like you're a ship and you're being drugged down by an anchor, nobody can cut you free but you, so either. Okay, then continue to be drugged down or evaluate what are the anchors in your life.
Speaker 1:You know that's not the direction I thought you were gonna go, but you absolutely know I love that answer Like, hey, have you challenged them? Flip it, flip, have you challenged them? And and that is also powerful Like cause a lot of people. What I've realized is a lot of people don't even realize that they're doing it. When I get called out, a lot of times I don't even realize I'm doing it and I'm like oh my gosh, that's not. Oh, my, that's not how I wanted that to come up 100%.
Speaker 2:People experience me as super negative. I had no idea. Maybe they don't right. Okay, how do we reframe that and change that together?
Speaker 1:You're awesome man. You're a beast. I'm. This is what actually. I have one more question, because this is a question that I did have for you. We're going to put all your show, or all the links and everything that you mentioned earlier. I'll put them all in the show notes, but do you have any? You know you mentioned atomic habits. Do you have, if you were to mention your top three, something three to five, however many you want to mention but books that people can go study and just start to learn? What are your favorite books on this topic?
Speaker 2:Okay, so Atomic Habits is absolutely one of my favorite books. This is like completely like, not really. I mean everything's related, but Glucose Revolution was one of the most impactful books that I read. It's all about blood sugar Incredible. I'm real holistic and all the things, and I do believe that if people's blood sugar, even if you're not diabetic, is out of whack, you're out of whack. Man's search for meaning is probably one of my favorite books of all time. Victor Frank, you're smiling, have you?
Speaker 1:read it. It's a great book, yeah.
Speaker 2:I read it at least once a year just to have that same impact. Victor Franco was a neurologist and psychologist and an Auschwitz internment camp Anyways, that book will absolutely change your life. He an Auschwitz internment camp Anyways, that book will absolutely change your life. He created Logotherapy, which is meaning therapy, finding meaning in suffering. And I do believe that, as the human race, if we are not able to find meaning in suffering, then like, how do we live? So you have to be able to find that. So those are my top ones. Yeah, those are my top ones.
Speaker 1:So good, so good, and meaning in suffering is reframing that is reframing, that's what you mentioned earlier if we're not doing it we're not doing it right I um, I'll put those in the show notes as well the one with what was the second one that you mentioned, the one with um revolution I've not read that one?
Speaker 2:I'll definitely read that one oh man, if you're into like any type of nutrition I mean it seems like you are into like fitness nutrition, all those things. It's a totally different way of looking at things, like how it's not even just what you eat, it's literally the order in which you eat, and I do believe that, with the amount of like sugar and carbs and thing that we eat, our blood sugar is just spiking all over the place and what that's doing to us mentally, emotionally, physically, it's, it's amazing. It's a great book.
Speaker 1:Super interesting, not just what you eat, but the order in which you eat. I would never even have thought in that line.
Speaker 2:It's wild, like literally eat your fiber first because it creates a fibrous lining in your gut so that everything actually digests slower, so you stay fuller longer. It's, it's wild, it's. I'm like I maybe other people wouldn't find that deeply interesting. I'm here for glucose ref.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's like all that kind of stuff that's. It's finding hacks in your life that make you the most optimized, best version of you. You know, 100%, absolutely. Okay, I'll put everything on there and y'all are crazy if you don't schedule a consultation. The link make sure we'll make sure to get it from your team as well, but the link to make sure they can schedule a consultation with y'all Yep, I'll get that.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for all your knowledge and your expertise and taking the time to share it. Like I can tell you're so passionate about it, which I love that you know I obviously love talking to people who actually have passion. I think passion is infectious in the best way, and you have it.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me, and thank you for being willing to kind of put yourself on blast and share personal stories. I think that transparency and that authenticity is incredible, so thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Appreciate you, angie. Thank you Everybody else out there, go follow Angie Booker Consultation and then, as always, live always with aloha Peace.