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Own the Outcome with Tyler Deveraux
Own the Outcome dives deep into the real stories of resilience and triumph that arise from the depths of failure. Join Tyler Deveraux on a journey of inspiration, growth, and authentic conversation. Within every stumble lies a valuable lesson, a chance for transformation, and a path towards success. Each episode features compelling stories from a diverse range of guests, from entrepreneurs and artists to everyday heroes—all sharing one thing in common: their ability to turn adversity into an opportunity for growth. Because in the end, it's not about avoiding failure; it's about owning the outcome.
Own the Outcome with Tyler Deveraux
Turning Financial Struggles into Real Estate Success with Cam Cathcart
After some life-altering moments, Cam Cathcart set out on an incredible transformation from pastor to prosperous real estate investor.
Driven by the need for financial freedom, Cam flipped over 500 properties in just five years, proving the power of mindset and determination.
Throughout this episode, we uncover how Cam's personal experiences have shaped his approach to business and life. Cam’s commitment to maintaining genuine relationships in the real estate world reveals how kindness and authenticity can lead to both personal fulfillment and business success.
This episode is a powerful reminder of how personal growth and leadership can transform not just careers but entire lives. Don't miss it!
➡️ Listen to Cam on the Better Life Podcast
Thank you for listening to today's episode. If this podcast has brought a smile to your face or sparked some new ideas, I'd love to hear from you! Leaving a review would mean the world to me. Appreciate you!
Connect with Tyler on Instagram: @tyler_deveraux
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All right, aloha and welcome to Own the Outcome podcast. My name is Tyler Devereaux and today we have Cam Cathcart, excited to be here. Right here live in office.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being here, bro.
Speaker 2:Dude, I am pumped to be here and it worked out great. I didn't have to travel at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Found out that we were neighbors Yep For the most part so I'm excited to be here. It worked out great. I didn't have to travel at all.
Speaker 1:yeah, I found out that we were neighbors, yep, for the most part. So I'm excited to be here. Man, I know me too. Bro, it's not I don't get to do a ton of in like live in office ones, and it's just way better than virtual. Oh for sure, it is for sure. So if you guys don't know cam first off, go follow him. We'll have all of his, his links and everything in the show notes. But tons, tons of value I already know Talking to him off camera and knowing a little bit about his journey. Tons of value here. So I want to kind of lead in with that. Yeah, like, how did you get into the space You're in the single family space. How did you get into the space? Was it? You know what? I guess? What was the inspiration to get into it?
Speaker 2:Tell me how that worked uh, the inspiration was kind of desperation. I think uh was, um, honestly, I, we were, we were. I was a pastor before I got into real estate and I and I absolutely loved what I did and so, um, but I just didn't make very much money and uh, and knew that, like, with the family that we wanted and the lifestyle that we wanted, I needed to make a little bit more money and um, and then that led to to just buying a house to flip and that didn't go well, um, but we kept going and we bought some more houses to flip and uh, from there it just kind of skyrocketed. Man, um, yeah, so, uh, it's been's been a really fun five years. I like to say that I'm still a very new real estate investor. We bought our very first house in the fall slash, winter of 2019. And to date, we've done probably over 500 flips.
Speaker 1:So come on, bro, that's 500 flips in the span of five years.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I should clarify that when I say 500 flips, um, I would say probably about half of those have been retail flips where we've fixed it up and list on the retail market, probably a six, 16. I know this cause. We have 65, uh, single family rents door 65. We've flipped to keep his rental properties and then the rest have been a mixture of wholeoletails or wholesales, so probably closer to like 300 actually getting in and doing the work.
Speaker 1:Still, I love how you tried to downplay it a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been crazy, it's been a lot of fun. So you said desperation.
Speaker 1:So first backtrack how old were you when you were a pastor?
Speaker 2:I was a pastor. So I went to Colorado Christian University in Denver, colorado, and then, right when I got out of that, I was a missionary in Belize for like six months. Didn't love that which is a different story, for a different time and then got a job at a church out there, yeah, and so I was probably 22. At a church out in Belize? No, sorry in Denver.
Speaker 1:I got a church at a church out there, yeah, and so I was probably 20.
Speaker 2:What in Belize? No, sorry, in Denver. I got a church in Denver, yeah, yeah, and that was 20, 22 or 23 years old yeah. So and then did that up until my wife and I kind of decided to get into real estate yes, so that's what I was gonna lead into to is?
Speaker 1:you said desperation? What was that moment of desperation?
Speaker 2:so that kind of ties into I just told you beforehand, like talking about visualization and mindset, Um, and if you want me to go there, I can, or if you okay so this is going to be a long story and uh but but I love sharing it because I think it's. I think it's kind of powerful for people. Um, at least for me, I like sharing it. It's a fun story for me to share, so hopefully people listening enjoy it.
Speaker 1:If not, we'll just cut it out. Yeah exactly, If not, we'll cut it out.
Speaker 2:Perfect. So my wife and I, we lived in Denver and I made $40,000 a year and before we had kids, that was completely fine. There was something fun about just not having money I, maybe not something fun, but just the challenge and the adventure of being young and we got married, really young, and and trying to figure it out and and we had a blast doing that. And even things like, hey, uh, we're out of money. I'm going to go drive for Uber. I'm going to go like I was getting onto Facebook marketplace free or Craigslist free, and I was finding couches and going and picking them up and bringing them back to my house and listing them for $50 and trying to make a quick 50 bucks or something like that, and and that was really fun. Um, but I always knew, like, this is not really sustainable. And then in 20, uh, 2017, we had our daughter Riley, and we were talking about her a little bit before. She's amazing. She's incredible. And that's when it kind of really hit me like, hey, this isn't what I want for our life of living paycheck to paycheck and every time we go to Sprouts or Safeway or King Soopers, wherever it was, we have to check our bank account balance to see if we have the money to swipe a card to pay for it, and I knew that that was not what I wanted for our lives. But so something.
Speaker 2:Something happened when Riley was a year old around a year old is. We gave her peanut butter for the first time and she went into anaphylactic shock. She was a year old around a year old is we gave her peanut butter for the first time and she went into anaphylactic shock. She was completely fine afterwards but she, within minutes, had swollen up to like twice her size, wasn't breathing. We threw her in the yeah, it was scary, it was scary. And we threw her in the car and rushed her to the emergency room and like, obviously, on the drive there, when your daughter's not breathing and are struggling to breathe, um, we're not pulling up our phone, looking at our insurance, saying like, what's in network, what's out of network? And we took her to like a privately owned emergency room or urgent care, uh, 24-hour, like urgent care, uh, instead of, uh, I don't know a normal hospital, and so our insurance didn't cover that, and so um ended up taking her there. They put her on IVs and kept her there for the night and she ended up being completely fine, uh, but about two weeks later, we got hit with a $15,000 hospital bill, and we had literally like $400 in our bank account at the time.
Speaker 2:And so I remember sitting at the dinner table that night and Lexi had went to bed and Riley was in bed and I was. I I just felt like a massive failure. Um, cause at this time I think I'm 27, 28 years old, um, and I've got a kid, and I just I felt like I wasn't doing what I was supposed to be doing as a husband and a father, and I was like I don't want to put my, my family, through this, and so, um, that was really the moment where I was like I have to figure something else out. Um, and fast forward a couple of months and I've started missing house payments and student loan payments, cause I can't keep up with everything, uh, and it gets really scary for a little bit, but one of the things that I did during that time was like I'm just going to to learn how to make money, um, and so I started just listening to every podcast on finances and entrepreneurship as possible and, uh, I heard that the quote on a podcast. I don't know if it's even true. But it said that 90% of millionaires, uh, make that through real estate. And so I was like I want to be a millionaire, that sounds awesome.
Speaker 2:So I started diving into real estate a little bit more and I got started listening to the Bigger Pockets podcast and so I remember like the first time I was listening, I was actually watching it on my computer and there was a guy named Brandon Turner Um and he was sitting in his uh, um, his seashed in Maui and he was talking about real estate and how he had used real estate to to move to Maui and um and and live and work there. And I was like that sounds amazing. And and back up about a year from when I listened to that podcast, my wife and I, for our baby moon before Riley was born, we had went to Hawaii and on the very last night we were sitting there talking about how cool would it be if someday we lived here and we raised our family here. And we kind of laughed about it because we just looked at real estate prices and we were like, yeah, I make $40,000 a year, that's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:And so I'm listening to Brandon talk about using real estate to move to Maui and I'm thinking that that's what I want for my life. And so, literally, um, I get, uh, grant Cardone's 10 X planner.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you've ever seen that or did that before, and it has.
Speaker 2:You write down your goals every or two, twice a day, right?
Speaker 1:is it twice a day?
Speaker 2:and the number one goal on there was live in hawaii, live in hawaii, live in hawaii. And so, for the the next three years, I'm writing that down every single morning, um, and so, anyway, my wife and I, um we, after listening that, I decided, hey, I going to leave the church and I'm going to get into real estate, and we bought our very first property in the fall of 2019. It was a flip house. In between that time, we had another daughter, callie, and we ended up doing everything wrong on the flip. We actually had to move in there with a one-and-a-half-year uh, uh, two month old and a dog, and we slept on an air mattress and we, we did a lot of the work ourselves because I had bought it so terribly, um, and we got done with that and did not make money, but we were like we can do this, we figured it out, so we started doing a little bit more and a little bit more. And then, uh, by March of 2020, um, we were doing five or six deals a month, um, and it just kind of skyrocketed from there and, uh, every single day, I was still writing down I want to live in Hawaii. And then, because of of just real estate and what it was doing for us. Um and uh, uh, and we got invited to come out here to a um, a, uh, a mastermind. Uh, the Maui mastermind, I think, is what it was called. And so we came out to the Maui mastermind in 2021.
Speaker 2:And this is where the story kind of gets. It gets really fun is the very first night. We had to get together at Brandon's house because Brandon was hosting this mastermind. We had to get together at Brandon's house, which so cool to get to go see. Like hey, I listened to you in the sea shed and, um, and you know, heard you talk about this house and being here is a ton of fun. And so we have this get together at Brandon's house and then the next morning we start the mastermind and, uh, do you go? Do you know? Do you know a guy named Rich Vecchi? I don't, you don't. So, rich Vecchi, he's an amazing real estate investor, but he started the mastermind off with kind of leading us through this visualization exercise. And this was in 2021. And it was at the time.
Speaker 2:It was kind of weird and I was like this is weird, where he's like you know, imagine that you're close your eyes, imagine that you're flying on a light up into the universe and you intersect with another light and it comes down and you land on the world five years in the future. And then he wanted you to be very specific about what you were seeing. He was like, look around you. There's a house in front of you, notice what the yard looks like, notice the cars in the driveway, notice the landscaping, and you realize that that's your house. And you walk up and you knock on the door and somebody answers it and you realize that's you in five years. And look around the house and what does it look like? What does it smell like, what's your tone like? And he took us through this exercise and he had us be really, really like descriptive in what we were imagining. And, uh, what was funny about that is I'd always wanted to live in Hawaii and the night before I was at Brandon's house, which was this beautiful house and, um, so in that visualization, I imagined Brandon's house like everything matched up.
Speaker 2:It's got this incredible view of the ocean, uh, it pool, it has Ohana, it's got a backyard. I just I visualized that and then I afterwards I went and I journaled about it and then, starting then in 2021, something I did every single morning, and I still do this day, is I would go and have coffee with the five year version of my future self, and every single morning, I would go walk up to the house that I visualized, which was Brandon's house, and I would knock on the door and the five-year future me would answer the door and we'd have a conversation. And I think it's so important for everybody to do, because not only did it align me with like hey, this is where I'm headed, cause I think, if you don't have a direction with where you're headed, you're just going to wander around amos aimlessly, and so I knew where I was headed but also, like, when I'm in, in envisioning the future me, it's somebody who loves his wife, it's somebody who loves his kids, it's somebody who is giving, who's happy, happy, who's generous, who's not stressed, um and so then, that aligns my day with, like everything that I do is through that lens is like, is this being more loving towards my life? Is this, uh, getting me to that house in Maui? Is this, uh, like making me love my kids more? Is this, you know, helping me achieve my fitness goals for my, the future me? So it, it. It helps align my life, um, but, uh, so, so, starting in 2021, I was envisioning that and I was going and having coffee with myself every morning, and and and again, again I still do that to this day ton of fun, um, and we, our real estate. It just starts. It's working for us.
Speaker 2:Um, in 2020 and 2021 were incredible years for anybody that was in real estate. Really great for us. Even 2022 20 actually, every year except the last three months have been really great for us. But, um, so we started making a lot of money, um, and I remember I was meeting with a friend and they were asking me about, like, the goals. And I was telling him, like, one of us was to live in Hawaii, and he's like so how much money have you made over the last couple of years? And I told him he was like, how much equity do you have in here? And I told him he's like, so why aren't you in Maui yet? And it's like, you're right, like this has been my dream and I've, my kids are young, let's go do it. And so in 20, january 1st of 2023, we moved out here to Maui and was so cool because, um, uh, it was something that I had literally visualized and wrote down every day for the last 900 days.
Speaker 2:And and we did it and um, so we moved out here to Maui. But another fun part of the story is you move ahead two years and and I'm still. We rented here when we moved here and I'm still looking for a house and and still having coffee with myself and and at Brandon's house, and we just bought Brandon's house you did, yeah, so come on like it's just. It's such a fun story for me you bought it when I bought it. Literally we closed on it last week bro, that's amazing, yeah, um so it's a it's.
Speaker 2:It's incredible, it's a mind-blowing story of like hey, literally, I, I visualized this. Like I, I, I, I'm religious and so, like the the term manifest weird, but I manifested this. Like literally, I mean, even the Bible says the Lord gives you the desires of your heart and like literally, every single morning, I was sitting there and I was having coffee with myself and Brandon's house is since 2021 and fast forward four years and I own that house.
Speaker 1:That's so sick, bro, so um yeah, it's a.
Speaker 2:It's a really fun story.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so that that.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, that was a long story that no, it's a great story, bro.
Speaker 1:That's like that is awesome, I love. So. There's so many takeaways from that man and one of the takeaways is I love how, I love how like specific he made you get during the visualization. That stuff's not weird to me. I love that stuff. I love that stuff because I believe that, like you, think about your kids, your kids, if they wanted something, they needed to be able to describe what they want, so you know what to get them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's how I believe God is. My relationship with my kids, or becoming a dad, has really changed my relationship with God, because I see it from a whole different perspective, just a whole different perspective. And the more clear that you get. I always say like that when the target is clear, success is near, so it's like the more clear you can get. Yeah, and it's a compelling future, bro, like if you can create a compelling future, life has so much meaning and purpose and, bro I okay.
Speaker 1:So my goal to move to maui our goal actually wasn't to move to maui to live here, because that that even was like seemed too much. Yeah, it was. We wanted to spend a year of unobstructed time with kids before they got to school. And so, brittany, we made a deal. We had my little girl, marley, and I'd hated the place we were living in. Like I can't really describe it, but like I'm a big energy, energy guy and I just I did not like the spot and we were also renting. And so, like two weeks after, maybe even a week after marley, we had marley I like found a spot and I was like we're moving, like I literally just told I like, went like toward the house everything, didn't even tell her because I knew she she does not want to do that.
Speaker 1:So we made a goal. She's like or we made a deal, okay, we'll move there, but in two years it's a two-year lease. In two years we're moving to maui.
Speaker 1:I'm like okay, done done easy but I'm like I'm not thinking that that's. I am like in the apartment space in that game, like I'm, I'm or apartment game at that time, but still new and still trying to build it and yeah, all Well, one time I'm speaking. Because then I started working with a guy named Dave Lindahl and I was speaking at one of his events, like not the main speaker, but I was speaking, and somebody asked me like one of my goals, and I said yeah, we're going to move to Maui, and I said it the first time that I'd said it vocally out loud and I was like, oh dang, now I have to.
Speaker 1:Now I have to do it. Yeah, I don't want to be a liar, and so I started any event. Anywhere that I'd go, I'd start telling people I'm yeah, we're gonna move to maui before the kids get into school. We're gonna move to maui, and then we moved to maui before the kids got into school dude and we'll never leave bro like I love that.
Speaker 2:Well, and another, another really fun part of this story and when, when's this podcast gonna air?
Speaker 1:because good question are they pretty quick, are they usually a few weeks, usually a few weeks out, a few weeks out yeah, all right, I'll tell my wife's gonna hate me for this, um, because we have.
Speaker 2:But so in, uh, in, in that visualization, one of the one of the things that that I remember so clearly, because he was taking you through, like, look at the house, like what does it, what does it look like, what does it feel like? And I remember it for me he was taking you through, like, look at the house, like what does it, what does it look like, what does it feel like?
Speaker 2:And I remember, for me it was not a clean house, it was a very messy house, but like a lovingly messy house where it's like this is a lived in house where family does life together, and at a time, we had three kids, um, in 2021, when I visualized, but there was more kids in that visualization and and my wife is pregnant now too, and so, like, just everything from that is coming true and it's it's mind boggling to to be like how did how did that happen? Cause it doesn't make sense. It really doesn't make sense unless, well, what I believe is God had a huge hand in it, but it does not make sense at all, and so it's really fun and one of the things that I think is important and sorry, I we talking a lot and it's not real estate, but I could talk about this stuff all day, but one of the things that's that happened to us and it was like I'd been writing down we're going to live in Maui every single day. Um, that was uh, that made me decide like, hey, we're, we're going to do this was in 2022.
Speaker 2:Um, my, my family, I was driving, we got, we got hit by a drunk driver going about 60 miles an hour. Um, and fortunately, we were completely fine. Um, I, what's crazy is I literally a couple weeks before I had traded up from a 2014 Toyota Corolla to a 2022 Ford Expedition. And so we got hit. He rear-ended us at a stop sign, us at a stop sign, and uh, and I remember like afterwards I was actually really struggling with that Cause I was thinking like what if I hadn't have just bought an $85,000 car that's a tank? Like what if I was driving that Toyota Corolla with our three kids in the back seat? And and uh, I was talking to a mentor of mine. Um, uh mentor.
Speaker 2:I was saying mentor, I went to a counselor. You know, I went to a counselor. I was like I was having like anxiety around it and uh, and one of the things the counselor kind of did with me was I've never had a counselor do this. Or he was like okay, let's talk about like worst case scenarios, Like what, what if you were, and what if something did happen to one of your kids? And and like I'm starting to like process through all these honestly terrible things and and um, and he's like how would you want to be living today? Like how it, if you knew that x, y and z was going to happen, like how would you want to be living today?
Speaker 2:And one of the things that I, we, my wife and I talked about is like we're, we are rich. Like we, we've, we've made a lot of money, and I don't say that in a braggadocious way, but in a it was the we've made a lot of money, and I don't say that in a braggadocious way, but in a it was the reality We've made a lot of money. We have really great active income and passive income. Um, so why do we, why are we putting off this dream that we've had to do with our family.
Speaker 2:And so that was one of the reasons that we moved out here. I love it bro.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Bro, our stories are so similar. I'm dead serious man my wife had sent me. I had read an article because I was procrastinating it, bro. I was procrastinating because probably similar, where I saw so many opportunities and I knew that the whole goal once again, it wasn't just to move here, we're going to spend unobstructed time with kids, which means I'm not doing anything, yeah, since they're going to retire for a year. And I had so many opportunities coming down the pipeline that it was like maybe if we wait just a little bit longer, then I'll be in an even better position. That was the narrative.
Speaker 1:And then I read this article by Tim Ferriss and it essentially was seven-step checklist overcoming fear. And he said one of the questions was if you can look back five, 10 years from now. Whatever I look back and you know for certainty that there's regret and you can't repair it, you can't get the time back or whatever, then you have to do it. And I read that and I was like I wasn't reading that to try to tuck myself into going to Maui. I literally read that and I was like, oh man, we got to go to Maui. Yeah, now, and I text Brit, I'm like let's go. We got to go. This was in March of 2019.
Speaker 1:And then we literally don't. We donated everything that we had like TVs, entertainments, everything, and we moved to Maui in June Dude, june dude.
Speaker 2:I love it. And the thing is is in, in 50 years, when you're looking back on your life, um, I can tell at least for me, I even if we had moved to maui and it didn't work out and our business did really poorly, um I would not regret that. Hey, we took a chance, we moved there, we got to be in a in paradise with our kids and it didn't work out. We had to move back. But in 50 years, if we hadn't done that, I knew that I would regret that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um and so, uh, and that's, I mean it's worked out, it's been, it's been amazing so tell me this, bro, because it didn't, by the way, it didn't just.
Speaker 1:it makes tons of sense how it happened because, like one of the things you mentioned was, you visualize this thing, this, this compelling future, and then, in the now, this bigger picture, but in the now, you were asking yourself every day does this thing help me get here? Does this thing help me better, dad? Does this thing help me, you know, get to Maui? That's how it happens, right, you create a compelling future and then you do the things today that leads to the better tomorrow.
Speaker 2:And that's why I think, like for, for anybody that is listening to this, the bet, one of the best pieces of life advice or real estate advice I could give you is create that, that vision for your future, and and go have coffee with that person every single morning. Literally, I would sit there and I would, I would talk to them every single morning, and I know that sounds crazy, but then, literally, I would sit there and I would talk to them every single morning, and I know that sounds crazy. But then my first actions of the day are always are these aligned with that person in the future? Like that person, it's a really nice house that I was sitting in. Like he's got to make money somehow. Person, it loves his wife, and so we get in a fight and I'm forgiving her, or I'm asking for forgiveness.
Speaker 2:Typically, it's me asking for forgiveness, but I'm forgiving her. Or I'm asking for forgiveness. Typically, it's me asking for forgiveness but, um, like it, I'm stressed out and want to snap at my kids. Like that's not what this future version of me, um, I'm, would do. I'm, I'm peaceful and not stressed. Uh, so why am I stressing over this? And? And so I would say that that was literally one of the ways that I was able to to scale so fast was because I had a vision for where I was going, um, and and every single day I woke up and, dude, I was pumped too. It wasn't like I got out of bed excited because I knew where I was going, um, and so it wasn't even hard for me that a lot of people I mean it was stressful. There was times, there's ups and downs and times where we feel like we're going bankrupt, or but, but every day I knew, like, the direction that I was headed, and so I was able to to overcome all of those um relatively easily, like the 10 X journal.
Speaker 1:You said how many times you like. I think it's two, it's two and sometimes three, because what he says is you write it down morning, night, and that third time was when you hit a challenge, a stumbling block. So sometimes it's three. Um, but I'll tell you the opposite end of the spectrum. Okay, I had this compelling vision for my life and I had, like, I knew where I was going, I knew what, like same thing and same thing. Like the work wasn't hard anymore. The work wasn't hard because I knew what I was working towards.
Speaker 1:This year, bro, and I haven't shared this, I don't think I've even told my wife this, because it's a, it's a, it's a realization that I really just came, just came to, you know, which is 2024, was very, it was the hardest year of my life, for sure, and what I realized is that I didn't have a compelling future version. I do this every year, where I write a 10, 5, 3-year story and I write it like I'm in the present tense, like I'm there, like this happened, but I'm writing the story and telling the story as if I'm 10 years down the road and I didn't do it in 2024.
Speaker 1:There's so much stuff going on and so many just, and this year when I went to go do it, I was like, oh my gosh, this year was so challenging and this whole year I just felt like I was just going through the motions to get through and I didn't create the compelling version. And so that that, that that version that you're talking about, and creating that story and that narrative and then reciting and going through it. Listen, you said goals that we set out to five years ago.
Speaker 2:And I was, my wife and I were talking. I'm like we need, I need to go sit down and come up with what's next. Yes, and I haven't done that yet, but I can even feel in my own life is like OK, like we've got the house, we've got the family, we've got, we've got the money, everything that we kind of had envisioned for ourselves. And like now I need that, what's what's next for us? Like what is that a new thing that I can be excited about and run toward it a hundred miles an hour, um, and, and so I'm excited to create that. I actually, uh, just uh, I'd I lost it, um, but re-bought a vivid vision and I'm gonna read that and kind of create one for myself, that kind of the next version of where we're headed, and so don't know what that looks like.
Speaker 1:Yet I'm excited to see you. I'm excited to have you share with you. I'm gonna hold you to it all right. Yeah, I will do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're getting some tactical real yes, do I have one more question, because I guess this question.
Speaker 1:This is actually, if you look at, the date that I sent you a message of like, hey man, I want you on the pod, was the date that I saw this post. Tell me about and this. I was like I want to talk to this, this dude, because it's in line with what I believe and what I just do. Cherish right, tell me about. Palm my, how to palm my drives, palm my drive, palmy drives.
Speaker 2:Okay, I wasn't sure how you pronounced it but palmy drives.
Speaker 1:Tell me aboutmy drives and how. I don't know if you remember that post, but I remember that post. Yes, and it was a write-up. It was as a carousel and you dropped Riley off at school. Yes, tell me about how. What happened at school, what happened to the Palmy drives, what was your thought behind it and how has it changed? Yeah, yeah, priorities.
Speaker 2:So this, um so a while back, but september, yeah one one of the things that I I, I know you're posting one of the things that I always love to do is I, I give riley and callie big hugs and kisses. We're, we're uh, hugs and kisses, family you know, and so, uh, it's my, I love it. They're, they're my kids, they're my favorite, they are my favorite thing in the world. And and dropped Riley off at school and she kind of like, was acting a little shy and she's like Daddy, come here, come here. And so she took me away from her friends and then gave me the big hug and the big kiss.
Speaker 2:And I remember and I will try not to cry as I talk about this but I got in my car and I was really, really sad. And I wasn't sad. I completely understand, like, as I get older, like got older, I didn't want to, I didn't want my parents to show me physical affection either. I completely understand that. What I got so sad about was like our kids grow up. Our kids grow up and that is the most beautiful thing in the world, but it's also one of the saddest things in the world. Um, cause I, I know that my kids are going to grow up and to be amazing human beings, and so I'm really excited for it and it's going to be a beautiful journey. But, uh, it's also really sad, cause I love my kids how they are Um and uh, and so I was just sitting in the car and I was thinking about that and thinking about like our kids, every single day, are getting older and the things that we're doing with them.
Speaker 2:Today.
Speaker 2:It could be our last time and it got me to thinking about something that we do that's called palmy drives and um, and the reason they're called palmy drives is because it was a pile drive where essentially since since riley's literally been about a year and a half um every single day, every single morning, uh, oh, I'm so sorry, I don't know why I did that um, um, every single day, every single morning, um, or every single night, every single morning.
Speaker 2:She asked for Palmy drives and it started when she was young, where I would just pick her up and I'd slam her on a couch or a bed and I'd tickle her and I'd kiss her and um, and that's just become a thing Like like literally 10 times a day. Daddy, can have a Palmy drive, daddy, I have a palmy drive. Daddy, can I have a palmy drive? And it still is going on to this day. And I remember sitting in my car just thinking like there is going to come a day really soon, where I uh, where she asked me for a palmy drive and then she never will again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll cry talking about it wait till I tell you why it resonated with me and why I feel like I'm about to cry too. Yeah, exactly, I'm telling you, though.
Speaker 2:We can cry, we can cry, I mean it's so. But literally I was like there will come a day, yeah, when, when, uh, I I'll never give up time with my family today to to go make money. I think that how I worded and I'm trying to think how I word it. But I said, I said the words in that post, um, where it's like I would give up five, 10 years down the road, 50,.
Speaker 2:Whatever it was, I'm going to look back at this and I would give up any amount of monetary wealth to go back to that moment and give a palmy drive yes, that's exactly what it was, where it's like I, I will, I promise you, when I'm, when I'm 55 years old and riley's 25 or 30, however old she is, I would give up millions of dollars to go back to her as a five-year-old and pick her up and slam her on the bed and tickle her and tell her that I love her and kiss her, um and so like.
Speaker 2:I can do that today for free. That's the biggest thing is like I can do that today for free and I, I, I am proud to say that I live most of my life like that, where I take advantage of of every single moment that I can with my kids, and I take advantage of every single moment that I can with my wife, because I know that it's not going to last forever and hopefully there's another beautiful iteration of it down the road and I believe there will be but, um, but the things that we can do today for free are things that we would pay any amount of money for in the future to get to go back and do that.
Speaker 1:So let me tell you why it resonated with me so much because that day and I remember it, because it's weird, like when moments like this happen, but, um, it was so, and I know it was september, because it's my wife's birthday yeah, right after my wife's birthday, and we were at the pool once again. 2024 has been challenging. Yeah, and I we're at the pool. What my kids love, we love to wrestle too. Yeah, but when we're at the pool, they love me to just throw them. We call them twister whisters. Well, I'll throw them and I'll twist them, you know, and we're at the pool and I usually do twister wh, but I was in my phone dealing with just shit you know, and I said no, and then I had a freaking radio post.
Speaker 1:So just, you don't know, like the things, that it's weird because you don't really know what posts are going to resonate for whatever reason, with whatever person, to make a difference. But bro made a difference to me because it just was this reminder at that moment, at that time of like, bro, there's nothing that I cherish more than my kids, yeah, and I'm a great dad, I'm a great husband, but I also take care of a lot of investors.
Speaker 1:I take care of a whole, you know, dude yeah hundreds of employees and a big network of students and it's like that balance can be a little bit challenging. Yeah, blessing.
Speaker 2:Huge blessing, yes.
Speaker 1:But a challenge. And it was just this reminder in that exact moment of like, nothing matters more than that, like, are you kidding me? Pretty soon they're going to be too big and you're going to be too weak. You can't even give them, you know, twister whisters like go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was awesome, dude, that that means a lot.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that, and I'm glad that it it resonated, because it's something, something I think about every day. Um, like, our kids still come up and get in bed with us, and in some nights it sucks and I'm like I wish, wish that we were more strict about this, but other nights I'm like there's going to be a last time, there's going to be a last time and they will never come get in bed with us again, and I want to cherish every single moment. And so, um, and I've gotten to a point where, like I, I do not care. Um, I don't care what other people say about me, I don't care about what. Like I, my family is my priority. Um, first and foremost, and I think that, if I think that you can, still that can be really cohesive with building a business and owning a business, but and it makes me a better business owner, it makes me a better entrepreneur but my family is my priority a hundred times out of a hundred yeah, so well, here's what it does Like I even look at this year.
Speaker 1:This year has made me such a better business owner because when things get tight, when challenges happen like you have to look at everything, when everything's just coasting you don't have to be as you know, into it yeah I mean you can make a lot of more mistakes, but when the margin of error is very minimal, you get super creative with how you can run your business and how you structure, how you get more efficient, how you get dude. I've learned more about business the past couple years than last year, for sure, then all the other years combined, so it makes you better. So if you have a priority and you have this standard of like, no family is a priority period, no matter what, you're going to get creative to make sure that you run a business and operate a business that is cohesive to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah period that's like that's exactly right. Yeah, so that's powerful dude, I love that.
Speaker 1:So now let's talk about now let's reverse it a little bit, okay, yeah, and back into, like your expertise, you have done my gosh. So how many single? You do short, you do um long-term rentals, long-term rentals yeah, you have 60 something, yes we have 65 the.
Speaker 2:It's probably a high, depending on the day. It's either 15 or 17 18 million dollar portfolio, just depending on on the valuations, yeah exactly so sweet. Um, yeah, so, and my wife and I, we, we uh own that ourselves. Um, and we've gotten really fortunate cause we bought a lot of those in 2020, 2021. So they've gone up quite a bit in value and uh, yeah, we're, we're probably, uh, we've burned all of those.
Speaker 1:And so um yeah. So how did you source them? Because your expertise is acquisitions.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I watched I think it was a podcast or I can't remember but you talked about the come. I don't know who called the come up, but the come up of like how you learned acquisitions and what that process looked like, and it was the opposite of what we just talked about. It is you're grinding.
Speaker 2:Yes let's talk about it, yes, so, um, worked, worked, I did work a lot, but the part of that was I had that, that future vision this is what I want for my family and I knew that I had to work hard.
Speaker 2:But when I started I did not do direct-to-seller marketing. My bread and butter was what I call connector leads. And now in our business we have connector leads and we have marketing leads. But what I became excellent at was finding off market leads from wholesalers. And I know everybody knows wholesalers and knows what wholesalers are. For the most part and a lot of people say wholesalers, they don't send you good deals, and they're right for the most part. But when you are very intentional about how you build relationships, you still get really great deals sent to you from wholesalers Because if they know, like and trust you, they're going to send you a deal first. And those numbers can pencil. When they blast out on Facebook or via email it's probably not a deal anymore. But if you can build a relationship, you can find deals with real estate agents. Same thing I built relationships with every, every real estate agent not everyone, but a lot of real estate agents.
Speaker 2:In St Louis I've built relationships with all the property management companies, the senior living facilities, the probate attorneys, junk removal companies, mold remediation companies and I positioned myself as hey one I, I, if anybody you come across like has a deal, um that with especially mold remediation and junk removal companies that has a house that they want to sell because it's either distressed, they want to get out of it X, y or Z, like I would love to be that buyer, but um, uh, where I was going with that was what I focused on was building relationships. That was, and that that's what I'm good at too, and and so it wasn't, it wasn't hard for me where I would go to the local meetup and I'd be the first one there and the last one to leave and I would shake as many hands as I could and I'd have as many great conversations as I could, and then the next morning I would take out the business cards and I'd call through every single one of them and I'd set up a coffee meeting and I'd sit down with them and I'd get to learn their story and learn about their life and learn about their kids and what, what made them excited and and and really, just like I say, part part of it is like I, I like to think I was a good person, like just being a good person and like literally valuing people and who they are and what's going on in their life and if business works its way into it great. A lot of times it did. That's how I bought so many houses.
Speaker 2:But I really just loved people and love hanging out with people and getting to know people and getting to know their stories and um, and so that's what I did, uh, for the first, for the first couple of years, man, I was just solely focused on connector leads and I was buying over a hundred houses a year, um from uh, from wholesalers, real estate agents, property management companies, senior living facilities, all of the above they, they were just sending me leads and so, and a lot of those we bought and a lot of those we bought.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lot of those we bought. Yeah, love it. So you were, you were putting in the work?
Speaker 2:Yes, it was, it was, it was a lot. So I would say, uh, three nights a week I was going to local meetups, um, and then I would spend my days going and walking houses or having meetings with people one-on-ones, just getting to know them. And walking houses or having meetings with people one-on-ones, just getting to know them, I would typically come, I'd come home and I'd always try and be home by around five, and then five to eight, I'd hang out with the family and then we put the kids to bed, and then, from eight till one in the morning, I'm running numbers on the houses that I walk that day to send out offers the next morning. And so it was a lot of work, and I think that's something that that I want to make clear to every single person that that's listening to. This is, when you hear a hundred houses, uh, I don't think people realize the amount of work that you have to put in.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm in my car. I put I know this cause of that. I bought that new car and I put 65,000 miles on it, um, and and a year, uh, just driving from house to house to house and walking houses. And this was before we had really built our team, where now you know I've got acquisition managers that that are doing that for me, but it it the beginning. It was just me, honestly, for the first three years it was just me, yep.
Speaker 1:So I want people to hear that because I love I actually love the journey that this podcast is going, because you start with such a beautiful story, bro, and visualizing these things, and then it helps people understand like it's hard. Well, first off it's possible, yeah, but then you reverse and it's like it's possible because you put in the work. It's like there is a growth period, there is a period where you got to put in the work. But what I also loved is that you said from five to eight was family time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Once again, you can grind and still I, yeah, I, I think I did, I I always did a good job of still being very invested and and in my family's life, um, that I would say during that phase of life I was, I was grinding harder than than I am now.
Speaker 2:Um, and I might need to, you know, once I come up with that new vision, that might change really quick and but that was fun to me and again I think it. It made me come more alive, Like it made me a better father in those times that I was with my family on the weekends and because I was so excited about life, where you know some people they come home from work at four and they hate their w-2 job and they're not excited about life and they're on their phone and they're watching tv and they might be with their kids, but are they really? No, and for me I was like just I was, I'm just jazzed on life man and so, like getting to be with my kids after work, I had a blast with them and we'd go to the park and we'd go on walks on weekends. We're having a blast because I'm just excited about life.
Speaker 1:Yes, oh, my God, I can relate to it so much, bro. When I started in the apartment game, I just remember Britt was working at the hospital. She's a PA.
Speaker 1:And so she would work at the hospital. She's a pa and so she would work the hospital. Sometimes she'd work. Well, I felt like we were just passing in the night, bro. Yeah, we were passing the night. We had, you know, people that helped with daycare and especially because I would travel sometimes, and you know it was challenging, bro. But I look at those years and, oh my gosh, I cherish those years because exactly what you just said I, I had this all of a sudden, like oh my gosh, I cherish those years because exactly what you just said I, I had this all of a sudden, like oh my gosh, I know how to make this life possible, like I don't have it yet, but I know how to make it possible Like I had a vehicle, like I cause. Before that I didn't, I didn't know how to make it possible, yeah, and all of a sudden I see it and it's like the energy that comes from that is crazy bro.
Speaker 2:It is crazy bro, it is yes, yeah, um, and I think I think everybody should, should find that thing. Whatever that is going back to that, that future vision of yourself, because when you can wake up up, wake up in the morning and get out of bed and be like stoked about life, um, it changes everything. Even in the hard times, like uh, like I was, we've had a lot of hard times. I think we've lost money on houses before.
Speaker 2:I think some of our hardest times were we tried to save as much money as we could, and so we wouldn't use private money or hard money, we'd use our own money. And then we'd run out of money. And we've already used our own money to buy properties. And we're sitting there and like, hey, we've got a hundred thousand dollars in expenses to come up with and we don't have any money in our bank account and like, just, but for me, because I knew where we were going, I'm like this is fun, like this is a challenge, like now I get a, I get to work on raising money, I get a, I get to figure this out, and I get to figure this out, and so, um, it was just exciting, man, um, I get excited just talking about it.
Speaker 1:It was so much fun exactly I would get off calls with brokers. I remember because it's similar within my space like if, if, then you probably know this. But like if a deal goes to market right and they just blasted everybody, like you said, could you still make a deal like that work, sure, but if you can get an off-market pocket listing directly from the broker, those are your best. I mean, those are your best deals, you know. Or direct from directly from the seller. So, but I would be talking to a broker. These are important relationships.
Speaker 1:I'll be talking to a seller for relationships and I'm brand new for the most part and I have these conversations that I would look so dumb and I know I'm looking down like I'll never forget, I'll never forget talking to an investor and he asked me about what the EBITDA was. I didn't know what EBITDA meant. I literally thought he was mumbling Like I had no clue. I have to talk to him and it's earnings before income depreciation and you know a tax is like I know what it is now, but I didn't then and I just remember hanging up and literally just laughing and that before that would have like floored me. I'd be like what am I doing? I don't belong here, I can't do this. Like what am I even thinking? But then I already knew I'd convinced myself I did it. I thought I was going to do it, and so I would just laugh about it. Dude, I just found joy on the journey.
Speaker 2:Like okay, I know how to well, I know what EBIT is now Awesome and now told to me a couple times recently, but this was five years ago when I got into real estate, there was a mentor of mine. His name was Brian Schroeder. It is Brian Schroeder. He's still alive, but he was such a phenomenal human being, such a phenomenal human being, um, and he had hundreds of single family houses in St Louis and had a flipping company and kind of took me under his wing a little bit.
Speaker 2:Um, but I was kind of I was very much like you when I first started, like I didn't know what a wholesaler was.
Speaker 2:When people, people talked about like um, ltv, dti, dscr, loans, any of those acronyms I would just smile and nod my head Like I knew what they were talking about. Or running an ARV on a house, like I didn't know any of that. But I was so excited about like hey, this is, this is where we're headed with, with our life and with our family and and so and I was meeting as many people as I could and Brian kind of took me under his wing and one of the reasons he said, and with our family and uh, and so, and I was meeting as many people as I could and brian kind of took me under his wing and one of the reasons he said like you had an energy about you that was unmatched, like uh, like I, I knew that you were going to be successful from the day I met you, not because of how smart you were, how charismatic or x, y or, but because you had a, a energy that I've never seen before anybody, um, and that meant, meant a lot to me.
Speaker 2:Um and and I think that that attracted like your, your energy attracts people. Um and and it did, uh, and people wanted to do business with me. Uh, and a lot of times people wanted to do business with me even though they could have they could have blasted it or they could have taken it to another person and made more money. But they were like we, we want to work with cameron yep, I love it, bro.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's so powerful for everyone to recognize because in the beginning I know well, I know this, bro my company's multifamily mindset. I'm so big on mindset that's like when I truly like started to wrap my head around that, yeah, my whole life took off. Literally my whole life just went on a hockey curve up. I talk about it all the time. I see some people like, oh my gosh, here's the thing. It creates an energy. When you have a compelling future, when you have these things that you visualize, when you know what you're working towards, it creates an energy.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you're out there trying to build relationships. You don't even understand why. You don't even understand why somebody's not wanting to do business with you. It's because you don't know why they should do business with you. You don't know even if you're still gonna be committed to the business. You're half in and they don't even know why they don't wanna do business with you. But they feel something and then, all of a sudden, there's this change and you don't understand why so many people want to do business with you. But it's because you know that this is the business you're doing. It's energy, man, energy. Success takes energy and energy is a real thing, oh, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it has. Uh, and having having that energy and and that um, I think that love for other people has has completely changed our business. So, like, going back to just some, some strategies that I use, and this wasn't done out of a uh, strategic thinking in my part of like, oh, I'm going to do this for this person and they're going to, you know, repay it. Um, but like I, I was, I was really great at um, and this partly is the energy and just like caring about other people, but I was really good at taking care of other people, like I remember, um, one wholesaler that I bought like 20 something houses from in 2022, uh, uh, made probably half a million dollars from maybe not that much, but a lot, uh, in 2021, um, I hadn't bought a house from him yet and we were out getting coffee and he pulled out his computer and it was like one of those thick like old Mac books that weigh 50 pounds. And I went out that day and I bought him a new computer and I dropped it off at his house and I was like, hey man, cause he was talking crap on his computer as he was, as he was trying to get it booted up and so I was like hey, man, I bought you a new computer Just want to tell you I appreciate you. And then the next year, every single house he got, he sent to me one of the best wholesale deals I've ever gotten in my life. It was a 70 unit uh portfolio.
Speaker 2:Um, and uh, uh, uh, it was a property management company. I was calling all of them saying, hey, do you have any clients that are trying to offload their portfolios? And, uh, there was a lady that that I was talking to and she started telling me how she plays women's softball on Tuesday nights and then afterwards a senior, senior women's softball on Tuesday nights and afterwards they all go to Applebee's and get, get dinner and margaritas. And so, um, the the next next day was Tuesday, and so I went to Applebee's and I got her a $25 gift card and I went by her office and I was like, hey, I really appreciate our call yesterday.
Speaker 2:I wanted to buy your dinner tonight, gave it to her. A week later she sends me this, this portfolio that I was able to wholesale and make close to six figures on, and so like it. I think, like there's when people say there aren't deals out there, it's definitely harder. I'm not going to disagree with you that it's it's harder, but it's also I don't think that that you're putting in the. You might be putting in the work, but it might not be the right work, and sometimes you have to think outside of the box and and I was really good at that, yeah.
Speaker 1:So very much. I can tell you're very good at that, yeah, and that that comes from when you're in the grind, when you're in the weeds. Sometimes it's just it is. It is challenging to get above them to see, like what's a different approach you know Well and I would say like that's like full disclosure.
Speaker 2:That's kind of where we, where I am right now, where, with with our business, now we've scaled to where we've got 15 employees or so on our flipping business and we have a couple in our property management side of things, and then I've got an education platform that we probably have 20 employees in.
Speaker 2:And I'm so in the weeds, in those I was telling my wife, actually literally this morning, like I want to be bored again, and not bored in the sense that I want to sit around and be on my phone, but I want to be bored because I think that's when innovation happens and I'm I haven't allowed myself to to be bored. Part of it is that our 2024 was was rough as well. So I'm right there with you where 2024 was not our best year ever, and so because of that, I had to step back in and help run things and be more on top of things, and I haven't gotten to exercise that creativity and innovation, innovation side of my brain to like think outside of the box. And how are we, how can we do things better and how can we do things bigger? Because I've just been so in the weeds, um, and so I want to work towards that in 2025. To be to be bored, I guess. Uh, so I can, I can flex that, that those innovation and creativity muscles.
Speaker 1:That's the same thing, though that's literally. That's exactly same thing for me with 2024. I am, you know, I pride myself on being a visionary, like I'm a strategic visionary leader For 2024, I was an operator yeah, very much so, and so you know the. You know, I was just having a conversation with my sales team and they're like we're doing everything. We're like literally doing everything we can. I was like but that's not, you're not because you're not producing the result, but that's not you're not because you're not producing the result.
Speaker 1:And in reality is, if you were, you'd produce the results. So what if we, instead of convincing ourselves that you're doing everything and I'm saying this not to my sales team, now, I'm saying this to everyone listening You're not doing everything. You might be doing, like you said, the work, but you're not doing the best work or the right work. So if you could just step back for a second and be like okay, what am I not doing? We had Goggins at our event and he's like an intimidating but he's the nicest dude, total stud. And how he takes questions from the group, I was so impressed. Man, he's a stud. And there's a girl in our program named Bree Amazing, she's my favorite, she's the best of the best and she's telling him all these things that she's been doing, and then he asked her but what haven't okay?
Speaker 1:cool, but what haven't you done? She's like dude, that's a great question.
Speaker 2:It was a phenomenal question, yeah, I well, and when you say that, I think through like, um, yeah, there's some things with with my sales team that doing we're doing the things that we're supposed to be doing, like putting out offers and walking houses, um, but one of the things that I was trying to communicate with them uh, that I think ties in with this was like so this was now, has been a couple of weeks ago, but, um, I bought a house and it was a wholesale, and it was a $40,000 wholesale. And they were like, how did you get that? Because it's so hard to find deals right now. And I was like I called a guy to congratulate him on getting married, and literally that was the only he's a wholesaler, but I just wanted to tell him he just got married Dude, I'm so pumped for you Like, how was the wedding, how was the honeymoon?
Speaker 2:And at the end of the conversation he said, hey, I just got this great deal. And like those are the things that I think that like, what are you not? Are you? When you ask, what are you not doing? Those are the things that I have always almost intuitively done where it's like I wasn't trying to get a deal out of it. I was literally just calling him to tell him that I care about him and congratulations on getting married, and it turned into a deal. Yeah, um, and so I think you just have to think outside of the box and I kind of goes back to like you just got to love people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you just got to love and care about people and and it'll come back.
Speaker 1:Yes, so, dude, I love that. That's such a great example. Such a great example it's that you know, and if you would have been calling him with that intention, with the underlying motive of they feel that, yeah, exactly, you know it's like, hey, you got a deal for me.
Speaker 2:Nope, cool, Call you in two more weeks and you know that that that's, that doesn't convey, like the, the authenticity and the the relational aspect of what I want to convey as a person and as a company, totally.
Speaker 1:Our motto is positivity, love, service, value and love is. You know, I have one tattoo and the tattoo says love one another.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's amazing, by the way, your executive assistant or admin, was she the one that was emailing me? Her emails just made my day better. Just reading those emails I'm like my day is so much better, the best. Huh, yes, that is who she is bro To her core.
Speaker 1:That is who like. When I first read the emails or communication, when I was even in the interview process, I was like is this real? No, that's who she is by the way that's Stratt's wife.
Speaker 2:Oh, is that your wife? Oh, dude, reading her emails just made my day so much better. I just had a smile on my face afterwards Like that's, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's who she is man, she embodies that, that's so cool, but this has been a masterclass, bro, on relationships and just purpose driven vision, like creating a truly the life that you yeah, by design, you know, dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Man bro, thank you for having me this way, like it definitely went a different direction than I was I.
Speaker 1:I am sorry I didn't, we didn't no, sorry, I think it's so powerful, bro. No, no, what we talked about is literally how you build your real estate portfolio, though the relationship side at the end massive, but everything that happens by having all the things you talked about in the beginning, bro, this is one of my favorite interviews that I've done in a long time, and I don't know if I've ever even got a little teary-eyed during an interview.
Speaker 1:But, bro, I'm telling you, go look at your messages. I'm telling you it had to have been probably the day after you posted that as the day that I messaged you, because I had an impact, brother. So I appreciate you, your leadership, everything that you're doing. He's a host of the Better Life podcast with Brandon Turner now, too.
Speaker 2:Full circle moment as well. Listening to the podcast, I forgot to add that, but yeah that's also a part of it. So sick bro.
Speaker 1:Your journey is inspiring. I love that you're here now.
Speaker 2:We've got to connect even more. Yes, I would love that.
Speaker 1:So thank you so much. You're welcome so much Everybody else out there. Man, go follow Cam, go digest every bit of content that he has and then go build relationships, provide value and live always with the low hop Peace.