Changing Roads Podcast
Changing Roads Podcast unveils the profound essence of travel, exploring not just the destinations, but the personal transformations within. We unravel the various themes, aspects and narratives of travel that define us, shape us, and lead us to the heart of our own stories.
Changing Roads Podcast
The Desert Rambler: A Living Journey in Death Valley
Strap on your hiking boots and fill up your water bottles. Brad, Ranger and their guest, Desert Rambler, Steve Williams, as they discuss his intimate connection with the unforgiving yet awe-inspiring landscapes of Death Valley. Weaving through tales of survival and the vibrant life that defies the odds in the desert, this episode is a tribute to the transformative power of nature. They share stories and anecdotes of their desert explorations, from the thrill of scorpion hunts to the profound solitude found amidst the dunes, reflecting how these ancient terrains challenge and nurture the human spirit.
With Steve's seasoned guidance, they explore the trials of desert survival, from the necessity of adequate hydration to the symbiotic relationship with the environment that's crucial for enduring the harsh terrains. The episode is not just about the thrills but also the importance of preparation and respect for the wilderness.
Their adventures culminate in a series of essential tips and memorable experiences for those drawn to the stark and hidden beauty of Death Valley. Steve encourages you to step beyond the familiar and immerse yourself in the desert's unexpected allure, reminding you that with the right mindset, every corner of the desert holds water, life, and stories waiting to be discovered. They invite you to join them on this episode of Changing Roads, where they shed light on the secrets of the desert and inspire your next great adventure under the starlit sky.
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Welcome wanderers, dreamers and fellow seekers of the open road. This is Changing Roads, a sanctuary for explorers of the world and the self. The solitude and quiet of the desert offers a rare opportunity for introspection and mindfulness. Travelers often find themselves more attuned to their thoughts and motions and surroundings From the distractions of everyday life. This heightened awareness can lead to profound moments of clarity and self-reflection, prompting individuals to contemplate their values, priorities and place in the world. People are drawn to the desert repeatedly, lured by its enigmatic charm and the promise of adventure. The challenge of navigating its harsh terrain, the opportunity for self-reliance and the sheer wonder of experiencing an environment so different from everyday life are some of the reasons why individuals passionately return to these places. These challenges push boundaries and comfort zones, giving rise to personal growth as individuals learn to embrace uncertainty and navigate unfamiliar terrains. Ultimately, the stark power of desert travel lies in its ability to strip away external noise, allowing individuals to delve into the depths of their being, confront personal limitations and emerge with a renewed sense of self purpose and a greater appreciation for the resilience of both nature and the human spirit.
Speaker 1:In listening to this episode, it is advised that you fill your water bottles, bring spare tires and please do not pet the rattlesnakes. We are going to Death Valley. Hi, welcome to Changing Roads. I am your host, brad. I am joined here by my co-host, ranger, my loyal service dog and travel companion, as always, and we are super stoked to bring this episode to you guys today because we will be going to my favorite national park and also to the desert, which is my happy place.
Speaker 1:The guest that I have on today is very versed in desert living and exploration and has spent a lot of time in both Death Valley and the deserts of Nevada exploring and sharing these beautiful places with people. So it's going to be a really fun conversation. Fill your water bottles, because we're going to the desert and you might need them. So, disclaimer do not do what Steve and I do without proper knowledge and preparation. Steve is very well experienced in going out on solo travels into the desert as a my, and it requires a lot of knowledge and wilderness medicine knowledge, survival knowledge, knowing what gear you're bringing with you. The desert is teeming with life, but it can also take away life very quickly, so please, if you're going to do this, make sure that you are prepared. So I would like to introduce you guys to Steve Williams, aka Desert Rambler.
Speaker 2:Hey Brad, hey Ranger, Good to you. Well, I'm seeing you guys, but certainly good to hear you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, man. We're happy to see you too. It's been too long it has. We met at the saloon in Death Valley. Was it the Oasis?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I believe that's what they called the ranch at Oasis, now formerly the Furnace Creek Ranch.
Speaker 1:Sat down next to each other at the bar, because there's nothing better than a day in the desert and then a cold beer to get the sand out of your mouth right, right on Heck, yeah. So yeah, man, it's good to see you. So what I wanted to talk to you about today is I wanted to pick your mind on your experience with traveling and exploring these deserts and why that means so much to you, where your personal connections are with that, how that's affected your life. But I also want to dive a little deep into how deserts are special, because when I tell people that deserts are my happy place, sometimes I get a sideways look and they're like what? And a lot of people don't understand the or haven't been able to see yet the beauty in the desert and the life that exists in the desert, and there's something about it that's just. It challenges you personally, right.
Speaker 2:It does. I couldn't be more thrilled to be invited to be on your podcast to talk about the desert, specifically Death Valley, which is a favorite area of mine. Yeah, yes, I get asked that all the time. I usually get the sideways glances or it's just a gravel pit or it's too hot or whatever, and sometimes I get a chance to explain a little more. Other times I don't, and they walk away not really ever knowing Well, which is unfortunate because, as you've discovered, it's a really unique place in the world Any desert, not specifically Death Valley, but just seeing what's not normally thought of as a place that is teeming with beauty and life?
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. With that being said, what made you fall in love with the desert in the first place, including Death Valley?
Speaker 2:Well, I'll go way back. Let me go back to when I was a kid. Let's say I had grown up from Minnesota. Lots of water, snow, cold in the wintertime and seeing the deserts, probably on national geographic, like so many of us probably had as a kid. It just seemed like such a foreign place and to know that there was a place like that in our own country was kind of wild to me.
Speaker 2:I'd never really traveled that much as a kid, just mainly within the state, and I think probably the earliest thing about Death Valley that really caught my attention was the racetrack playa with the moving rocks. Yep, and as a kid I just I couldn't imagine what caused that. Was aliens, was it the earth-chelting? Who knows as a kid what you think about that? And I always just kept in the back of my mind that one day I would drive out there and see these rocks move. Of course it took one child just a few years ago for them to discover how they even really moved. But I wouldn't say this Not aliens, no, it couldn't have said, but unfortunately I was kind of hoping it would have been Me too. Yeah, that, and just the fascination with the sand dunes and the remote scenery. It just so foreign to what I was used to, and when I moved out to California some 24 or five years ago I finally had that opportunity to experience it.
Speaker 1:Super cool man. I know exactly why you feel that way. I love the desert too. There's that level of mysteriousness to it that just draws people in, and the desert continues to show us its mysteries and allow us to wonder. As you've explored through Death Valley, there's some pretty interesting things there and legends and mysteries, and maybe there's a lost underground city. The desert is full of mysteries and I think that's one of the things that draws us in and that's really neat. Of course, yeah right.
Speaker 2:I kind of lean towards that belief that there could be something underneath there or not. For those who are fans of Art Bell's Coast to Coast AM always wondering if the aliens were going to land on the desert. I kind of enjoy a little bit of that spirit alive, whether it's true or not, but it kind of adds to that mystique of the area.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Leaving some mystery in every once in a while adds to the allure and that sense of adventure. It's the same with the traveling log in Crater Lake. Do you know what I'm talking about? Not familiar with that one? Yeah, in Crater Lake there's this old log that kind of moves on its own against physics and science. It kind of just kind of does what it wants. It's very strange and the National Park Service decided that they were going to stop scientific research into it and just let it be and allow that mystery to remain, because they recognize the importance of some things. We don't need to know everything. Some things we should let remain mysteries, because that is one of those things that sparks that sense of adventure in us and sense of wonder in the world.
Speaker 2:That's a good thought. In some ways I kind of wish they hadn't discovered how the rocks of the racetrack play a move. But they did, and it's our nature to explore. But I kind of would have liked to let that one go.
Speaker 1:Me too. I was actually pretty upset when I finally came across the article and they were like we discovered why. And I was like, ah really, I don't even want to read the article, I don't even want to know. Now Got it. I feel you, man, so you've connected with the desert and places like Death Valley specifically in really intimate way, and I'm sure that is something that has grown over time and become more profound in your life as the years have gone by. Am I correct in that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah. The first time I went out there it just captured me right from the beginning. I mean mainly because it was so foreign to what I was used to. But there's just something about when you turn off on that road that cakes you down in there and you see the dust blowing and these big, huge vistas, these treeless vistas. Someone once famously said you have to get used to not seeing the color green.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But when your eyes adjust, you finally start to see things. You see shadows, you see cloud shadows going across the ground, across the face of mountains, massive sunsets that go from each corner of your eye to the other corner of your eye that you don't necessarily see at least where I was from where you look out and you may have trees blocking your view or you have whatever. Those are the kind of things that just draw you to keep driving and driving, deeper and deeper into that to see what you can find.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and Death Valley is such a dynamic place too. A lot of people, when they think of Death Valley, all they see in their mind is just this is a vast desert. But Death Valley is not only that. They have mountains and Waterfalls, fakes and waterfalls and oases, and it's really cool to know that these places that are so remote and so desolate are also so vast and dynamic and that makes it really special. And you're not really going to know and see those things until you go and see it with your own eyes, and then it blasts your brain open, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, death Valley is very shy with its wonders. You have to go return back many times to finally see the changes. It moves very slow and when you go there or any desert that's very remote, it's kind of a stop time. And when you get a chance to keep returning you may pick up a nugget or two here or there Once you've gotten past the main tourist destination spots Badwater and Zabrowski Point and so on. If you get that fever you have to keep going back. But then you start seeing the unique changes, like you say, the dynamic changes flower blooms, different shadings from the sun, how it hits mountains, a dust devil swirling across the floor of the desert, all these different things. It just takes time to catch that. It may take decades or whatever. I mean just within the last couple of years, these massive floods. There are people 100 years ago that never had a chance to see floods. Here we are in this generation. We've seen two floods a year apart Completely change the landscape, destroy it, rework it. So yeah, it's an ongoing thing.
Speaker 1:That's exciting to keep going back to, yeah, and that takes a careful eye to see, or in an open mind, but there's a lot of it can be really profound when you look into that. How, steve, might those observations that you've had with this changing environment has that spilled over into your own personal life and your view of, not the world, but maybe the intimate way that you experience life around you? Because we all, we learn things from the environments we are in and we take them back home and there are lessons to be learned in all environments, especially the desert, in my opinion, so that seeing that change, that ever-evolving landscape, does that affect how you see your daily life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean a vacation certainly can be a respite, wherever you go. I particularly think getting remote, whether it be a desert or even a mountain top surrounded by trees, wherever you can get to, where you have that chance to just quiet the world down. I don't think we often realize how much noise is around us, even in a Inside of your house. I mean there's noises there that you just have become used to. And when you get out to these remote areas to today, we're obviously talking about deserts. So you realize that complete absence of sound, especially when the wind is not blowing, is just sh-t-shocking.
Speaker 2:I mean some people can't handle that. It's actually you can hear your own heart beat in some instances, but for me just erasing that is kind of like just turning that circuit breaker back off and back on and just resetting your life, so realizing you're very small in this universe. There's more to life than sitting behind a desk and working yourself to death. There's things to see, fresh air to breathe, beautiful scenery, meeting great people that are on the same kind of quest. So that's really, I think, added to my daily life. As far as just looking for that balance of that, whatever you can do, as simple as it can be. Maybe you can't travel to the desert, whatever, but find something that can get you a little bit of a respite from the day-to-day grind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I think that balance might be hard to find for a lot of people, right, because it is a balance in doing the things you do in your everyday life and work and the hustle and bustle of society and then taking those breaks and going out to places like that. You can't just do that whenever there has to be some sort of healthy balance, right, and maybe finding that balance is an adventure in its own.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I know how everybody can travel to a desert or for whatever reason. It's not wise to but find something that can get you to a happier place and calm yourself down, calm your brain down. It just gives you a chance to reassess what's important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and I feel like doing things like that not only improves your experience with going into places like this, but it also improves your life back at home. You're not just taking a break from life, you're going out there and then you're bringing that back home with you, and I think that's important because your overall quality of life and how you interact and experience with society benefits from that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I enjoy coming back with the stories. I enjoy telling people about the places that I experienced, showing the photographs, showing the videos, just giving somebody else a chance to see and maybe they'll think about heading out there themselves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually that's one of the things you do. You have your social media and your YouTube channels Desert Rambler will talk more about where you can find that later but that's what you're doing is you're taking these places and you're not just experiencing it for yourself, but you want to give that to other people as well and you're trying to inspire people and you want to show people these places and you have stories to tell, so it's important to you to take your personal experience and give that back to others.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took me about probably oh maybe eight years or so going there. I think it was pretty selfish with my personal time there. I did not want to really share it. I wanted. I didn't want anyone to go with me. I didn't really want to talk to anybody there. I think you're probably one of the first handful of people I ever actually wanted to sit and chat with about it. I was really selfish of my time there. I was wanting to just absorb as much as I could and have that complete alone time. I did not stay at hotels or hotels there or resorts. I remote camped. When I got a better vehicle, I went even more remote and took my Jeep out onto extreme back roads.
Speaker 2:So last year or so I decided that I really wanted to share some of these adventures on YouTube, on Instagram, whatnot. So I had been doing another YouTube channel on another subject and stopped doing that. I thought, well, why not see if there's any interest in sharing about some of these places? And yeah, we're still in the infancy, but it's rolling along and getting some good response. And the kind of thing that spurs me on is getting the comments from people.
Speaker 2:I had probably one of the most touching comments the other day and it was through another social media site, but it was related to a video that I had linked to this guy and he said that's amazing video, thanks for showing that. I've been housebound since 1988. And he says I don't get to go anywhere and your kind of videos, that's what keep me going and let me see the world out there, and thanks for posting that video. So that's the kind of thing that I just go, man, that gives me a shot in the arm and just keep on, even if there's a couple of people watching, if they're getting joy out of it, man, that's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel the same way about this podcast. If there's a couple of people listening to it and they could take something away, then I will have done my job here, and that's something you just brought up. That's another thing that I've talked about previously on this podcast is some people don't have that opportunity to get out into the world and travel and see it like boots on the ground, and the only way that they will ever get to go to these places is by people like us sharing those in video or audio format, and that might be the only way that they ever get to travel. And that's a really special thing that you do for people. We can do for people to share our experiences like that, and actually one of my best experiences of all time in travel was hunting for scorpions at night with you in the desert.
Speaker 2:I still think of that often. Yeah, it was a great time I just met you, and here we are out with UV light software. Question morning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had this crap V light for, like tracking blood when you're hunting, and you were like, nah, man, this is not the right kind of UV light. And we're out there, you're pulling up logs and you know all the places that these guys are, and you're like, man, these are little guys. And I'm like, oh, that's a big ass scorpion man I'm talking about. Yeah, it was so fun. It was such a simple thing, just like yeah, let's go turn some trees over and let's find some scorpions and see them glow under UV light. That was a really. It sounds so small, but that was such an impactful and memorable travel experience. I will never forget that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was for me too. I was just hoping I wasn't gonna freak y'all. I was like please no snakes or anything, Don't have some tragedy happen while we're out traipsing around out there. But you know, fortunately it all came out good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you weren't freaking me out. If it wasn't for you telling me the question, I would have touched them, but no, you actually. You also gave me some good knowledge there. You were like careful where you step in the sand because the side winders might jump out and bite you. It did make me walk a little bit more careful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you walk with eyes down in the desert. Well said, well said. Unfortunately, it doesn't help with your posture. So, yeah, I've recently learned that I should probably walk a little more upright, but when I'm out there I'm looking 20 feet and scanning that five to 20 feet in front of you. So a little practical knowledge there, for your listeners For sure.
Speaker 1:I love looking at the landscape, I love looking out, but some of the most interesting things that I've ever found, hiking or backpacking, have always been right at my feet, and I make it a point to look at the ground and look at the trail, and that's when you find arrowheads and interesting things, and not just so you don't step on a rattlesnake, but there's a lot to be found on the paths themselves that you're walking. I think that's really even if your posture goes from it.
Speaker 2:That's a good point. Yeah, it's like seeing some people often will see but they don't see. Yeah, and to go back to your point about revisiting same sites over and over, why go? You pick up something each time, and sometimes it could be as small as one photograph of something that's just very unique or an experience like you and I going out scorpion hunting. Getting that one nugget can be enough.
Speaker 2:Conversely, I think a lot of people will try to pack too much into a vacation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I will often advise people when they're going out to Death Valley to make sure you have a day in the middle of your vacation where you have no plan. And I'm trying to incorporate that more into my visits as well, because I have met some very interesting people by just being completely free to go. Like, hey, oh, there's people going over here, I'm gonna go with, let's go check that out. Or I might have talking to somebody who's never been there. And also, within the last year or so, like, hey, follow me over, I'm gonna show you this really cool thing that you don't know is here. And it turns out they were also a family that has a YouTube channel, travels the world. A lot of meeting these really cool people and we actually have a little segment in one of their videos where we're going out to a site they didn't know was there to have that freedom, to have an open day in the middle, so you can get these adventures that you just would never expect.
Speaker 1:That's super good advice. There's actually a story from an anonymous park ranger in Yosemite who had a visitor come up to him one day and said I have one day in Yosemite, what should I go do? And he said go find the closest rock and sit down and cry. And I love that.
Speaker 2:No, it's true, I rarely stay in one place more than one night when I'm out there, mainly because I am trying to find material for my channel. I'm also doing photography, so I've been working on a project to do some photographs. So I find myself spurred on to keep looking for interesting places to video, to photograph, but not. But I will keep that open spot where I can just go. Okay, I have no plan, there's no itinerary today. If it's cloudy, I may be going somewhere else. If it's windy, I may be doing something else. Whatever, I may meet somebody and say you know what I'm going over here. That's where the most fun happens on a vacation, I think, is when you keep your mind open.
Speaker 1:Absolutely completely agree with that, and my best stories come from days like that when I don't have an itinerary and you just sit and wait for the adventure to come to you, but you have to sit down and stop and listen for that to be able to happen. So very good, very good advice, really good advice. So that, all being said, you are also walking into some very harsh conditions and dangerous and sometimes life-threatening conditions, right when you're going out exploring these places, and those are things that you have to prepare for and have the knowledge to be able to survive in those conditions. How has that developed over time with you and your experience and learning how to navigate these landscapes? Because I watch videos of you going through just the things that you carry when you go out there.
Speaker 1:Right, what you put in your pack is important, and you have to have an understanding of what it takes to be able to survive in those conditions, not just on a normal hike or adventure, but if something bad goes wrong as well. How much water do you carry, like the Right? Right? You have to know these things to be able to go out and do things like this. Otherwise, you could find yourself in a not very good situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, I went from being terrified to being slightly less terrified over about it In your period. I've always been kind of an outdoor person. You're growing up in Minnesota used to knowing what you need to do to survive in the cold Not so much the heat, not so much worrying about water because you can walk a quarter mile in Minnesota and drink out of a lake pretty much wherever you go but having some knowledge of survival and whatnot from Boy Scout days and just watching TV shows and whatnot. But in essence, my first visit out there was pretty much just to be a tourist, see the main sites, maybe take a few little risks, going off on a few hikes, but I wasn't carrying a huge pack. When I started really getting the bug. To go out there and see the remote areas is when I started researching it and getting serious. And they even got as extensive as talking to doctors, emailing survival experts. I emailed and conversed with a gentleman who had hiked Death Valley in July from north to south. He traversed the whole far in 120 degree heat with a couple other people. They hiked with umbrellas, they had water cached up and down the park and so that's how much.
Speaker 2:I dove into it just to make sure that I was gonna come back, and that was even in the days when I was not going with a satellite communicator. There was certainly no cell phone signal anywhere. There's still mostly isn't, but there are some spots where it is better. But for the most part, yeah, I mean I've pretty much tooled up, researched, but it's an ongoing thing. I believe the hardest thing is to learn your own language and your own body, but you can survive a long time without food. You can maybe get by without some of the other fancy kind of gear that you see, but you have to learn your body regarding water or it's all over. So I'd say my most amount of research has been studying hydration.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in my very early 20s I learned a very hard lesson in Death Valley. It was my first solo road trip that I'd ever been on and I was so excited to go explore the Southwest and the West Coast. And I rolled into Death Valley and walked off into the canyon with my two liters of water and it was 120 degrees out and I almost did not make it back to my car. My water was gone and I was blacking out 100 yards from the parking lot. Wow, you go lucky that I made it and that was a hard lesson learned.
Speaker 2:I now remember you telling me about that and that's shocking to me. I mean, wow, how fortunate that turned out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and had I done my research, had I known that in 120 degree heat that one gonna cut it and I might've been pushing my body too much and consuming my water wrong, probably wouldn't have been in that situation so hard lesson learned, close call. But that can be avoided by knowing what you're getting to and knowing your body. Like you said, really going into hydration, because you're gonna die if you don't. You're gonna die without water.
Speaker 2:For any reason. A question back at you, then did you think that's part of the charm, do you think that's part of the allure of going to the desert areas? Is that what draws you out there? Like you know what you realize it's? You have to take care of yourself. There's no one doing it except you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, that's one of the things that I love most about the desert. It really puts you in a position where you have to know yourself very well and your environment really well. Don't have anyone to bail you out. I've done a lot of time backpacking in the Superstition Mountains outside of Phoenix and it's it's you and the environment and it's one of the ultimate tests of oneself, as much as it can be one of the most intimate experiences that you have in a place with nature and the environment and the world. But, yeah, absolutely, that is one of the things that draws me back is it's a. It's not a war against nature, it's a. What's the word? I'm looking for? Symbiosis maybe. Yeah, it's finding that. Symbiosis, it's having a relationship with your environment, not a fight against your environment. So, yeah, if you can learn how to do that and have that healthy relationship with wherever you're at, then you're going to be okay. But yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. The desert, like you said, coming from where you come, and you can walk however many yards and find a lake to drink out of. Walk another hundred yards and there's a road. You go out to these places and it's you and your environment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just makes you feel like you're insignificant out there, which is a good reality check for us. We think we can just I don't know scientifically or technology wise plow our way through the universe without any consequence. And when you get out there and you realize it is literally down to the basics air, food, water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't. We don't freeze or bake to death when we came from millions of years ago.
Speaker 2:I recall a story when I was like very first trip out there, the Eureka dunes, the north end of the park. I don't know if you've ever been there yet. Did you make it to Eureka dunes?
Speaker 1:I have not actually.
Speaker 2:So second highest dunes in this country. You go to Colorado the dunes there are slightly higher coming from, like I say, where I was from originally to a 700 foot tall dune field and I pull out there. There was one other car in the campground the night I got there Next day. I'm climbing up the dunes and I look down and you can barely see the parking lot. But I see these guys get in their car and drive off and you can see the road that goes all the way out to the main road. It's about 10 miles away and I watch them drive away and I realize I'm sitting on the second highest sand dune in the country, completely alone, like literally no one anywhere around there.
Speaker 2:I sat up there for probably two hours just staring, looking off. You definitely feel a little tiny at that point and you realize, like wait a minute. If I'm eating my lunch and I start choking on food or I take a spill and tumble down the face of this sand dune, that's it. You're done. That's it. I. Your minutes away at any moment from making a mistake that could kill you. It's very humbling.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you can ask. The man that had to saw his arm off with the Dole Leatherman blade Thanks. Who wouldn't go there? He was lucky that he had the guts to do that. But yeah, one false move and it's over.
Speaker 2:Well, how about in your chip? But you're rolling your car over.
Speaker 1:Yeah, even that close super, I should be dead. There's no rational reason that I should have crawled out of that wreck with Ranger completely unscathed and I was going to be a mess and fire and police they were like what the hell? So yeah, one false move and it can be over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have started carrying a satellite communicator these last couple of years. I think I kind of got the I don't know if it's machismo or what it is of like hey, I can do this, I have kids. So I started carrying a satellite communicator. So, yeah, I think that it's good to experience that. And then, when you're ready to use technology to your advantage, I think that when you get that balance, that you can't just have that excitement all the time, you have real world responsibilities too. You have children, you have wives and girlfriends and husbands and brothers, sisters, family that want to see you return, and I think you kind of go okay. Well, maybe I should get one of those things, but it's no guarantee either. I could take hours for someone to reach you, and on a desert, if you're in heat stroke, you have minutes, maybe 30 minutes at best.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually just started carrying an SOS device as well in the past couple of years. I never had before. I think one thing you said having children really changed how I view my travels, because, you're right, I have kids now and they want to see me come home and that's a little bit more of a perspective and amount of caution, because we also want to take these experiences and these things we're learning back to our children and we don't want them to make the same mistakes that we do. So the day my daughter goes on her first backpacking trip, I'm handing her a SOS device. Lesson number one actually lesson number one is we're going to talk about hydration Drink water, but not too much water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, not to go on a tangent, but yeah, I actually did the too much water thing once and that was equally surprising. So, yeah, it's something you have to watch out for.
Speaker 1:Yeah, life is balanced.
Speaker 1:You end up with hypotremia, where your levels get watered down in your body and you need those electrolytes. And actually the converse happens a lot with wildland firefighters they get hypernutremia because they'll sit there all day and they'll just slam Gatorade that gets dropped in on the pallets and their electrolytes get too high and which is equally as dangerous of a situation. So life is balanced. This goes back to knowing what you're doing, knowing how much water to take in, knowing how much electrolytes to take in, and those are lessons that you can bring back into your daily life, to know that there's balance in everything and you need to find that balance.
Speaker 1:So maybe it was tangent, maybe it wasn't. I think that might have been a pretty good point. So how has this time that you spent out there, when these desert landscapes and these remote places that contributed to you personally and your personal development, your growth, we've talked about like that? There's always that need to explore and see the world in an intimate way, but that translates into personal growth and it becomes the person that you are today sitting in front of me, right?
Speaker 2:I think for my daily life I feel like I've maybe stretched myself to be a little bit more resilient to struggles. When you look at how harsh that landscape is to survive in, when you realize that there were people that tried to make a living out there, when you see the pure grit and determination in the mining efforts that people were out there in 120 degrees trying to mine gold, getting equipment into remote areas in the early 1900s man, I feel kind of wimpy. I'm like yes, guy. So I think it's really showing me that I can be a little bit tougher than I maybe thought. I was not by any means the greatest explorer or anything like that, but just I could push myself a little bit more than maybe I do.
Speaker 2:As far as other activities I could a mountain or going skiing, or I maybe challenge myself a little more Growing up skiing I'd never done a black diamond run at a mountain. Just I'm going to break my leg, I'm going to, I'm going to crash, I'm going to whatever, and just realizing you know what, I'm going to just take a step to push myself a little bit further. So I think it does carry over by just particularly warm climates. So the desert it's natural for me to want to just be in that warm area, but, as far as I think, realizing that you're insignificant in this universe, don't get too big of a head in your daily life these remote areas are the great equalizer. You could be out there at a campsite with a CEO of name the corporation Apple, general Motors, whatever, I don't care, but the guy who's got the knowledge of survival and the water is the guy who's in charge.
Speaker 2:When I met you, I didn't know who you were. I mean, you sit next to people and it's all survival Now granted, when you're sitting at a resort, you're not too much in danger. But hey there's. There were several deaths this year of people, just like what happened to you. You went up Golden Canyon or something for a quarter mile and they didn't make it back to the car. So yeah, very humbling and it definitely carries over into your daily life.
Speaker 1:Yep, Don't quote me on this. I if I'm going to go back and look at this after the podcast, just make sure I get this stat right. If I don't, I will correct it. But I believe that 11 people die every week or month in a US national park Staggering number.
Speaker 2:I doesn't surprise me. I think most of them are probably not in Death Valley. To be honest with you, yosemite, I believe, is one of the most dangerous national parks because of the waterfalls and the rock climbing. But now you have my gosh Yellowstone People going off trail and falling in those boiling pods. All that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, trying to pet the buffalo.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Help me with grizzly bears.
Speaker 2:Well, that's a good thing about Death Valley is there's no rattlesnake petting areas, it's true.
Speaker 1:I've never tried to pet a rattlesnake and I don't recommend that any of my listeners do that. Please don't, unless you are in an emergency room and they have anti-venom in the closet next door.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I should. It's very. Yeah, it's yeah. I was just reading a thing about rattlesnakes the other day and it was like it can be $100,000 to unvenom you.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:At a hospital. But there was some exciting new technology coming out in the medical world. They actually have a pill now that is going to be fast tracked through the FDA that when you get a bite, you take this pill. It's pretty much almost neutralizes the venom from the snake, as long as you get this pill in you very quickly, oh wow, and you still would need to go to the hospital. But it's basically going to be just a quick hey, let's check this, let's check your levels, get you in and get you out. This is going to be used for not only civilians, but the military was really interested in itself. Good news there, and hopefully that's not going to encourage rattlesnake petting.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's a game changer. It reminds me of something else I just found out because, you know, I travel with Ranger and we go into some pretty crazy places and down some pretty rocky trails and I just learned that they have a new vaccine for dogs. It's a rattlesnake vaccine and it basically does the same thing. It's a one time vaccine and if they get hit by a rattlesnake it's not going to kill them instantly. They're going to have to go to the vet, but it's the same thing in and out of the vet. And it's really cool. These technologies and medical advancements that make it easier to pet rattlesnakes Very good yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm glad Ranger is protected. He's a great dog, what a companion, what a great companion for you Always love seeing his photo on your feeds.
Speaker 1:You're the best man. Something you brought up earlier that I did want to touch on was you were talking about some of the mining history in Death Valley, and a lot of that has to do with Western expansion and the first time people crossed Death Valley. It's interesting to note that not only can you find in places like Death Valley these beautiful landscapes, but there is some very huge cultural and historical things to be found as well that you might drive right past, and those are really Exactly Explore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I first started going out to Death Valley, I was really not at all interested in the mining history. I'm still not as interested. I have visited quite a few mines and taken quite a few photos and have done videos on the mines to show other folks. But yeah, I wasn't interested in what a mankind had done out in the desert because I wanted to see nature, I wanted to see creation.
Speaker 2:But over time I had learned that there are peoples that had lived out there, in particular the Timbisha Shoshone native tribes that are out there, still out there, live in an area right next to Furnace Creek, and I came to appreciate more of what they had done, what they had survived in. And I think I try to sometimes look at the scenery more through the eyes of somebody that had been there for a thousand years which they're assuming that they had been rather than just yeah, this is a dirt playground where I can bring my dirt bike and I can rip up a sand dune or whatever. There's places for that too, and that's your thing, graig. But when you can look at this land and go there's people that actually survived here it makes you realize it's not just a dead gravel pit.
Speaker 1:That's a special insight. It really makes you understand better the place that you're in. So, steve, you have all this experience in the desert. You've spent a lot of your life out there, you've learned a lot of things, and part of the reason that you're on this podcast is because I want to share your experience and what you have to say to everybody that's listening here. What would you like to really convey and share with people that are listening? Not only tips about desert travel which I do want to hear from you, because I think that's a good thing for people to hear but also just in general, what do you want to say to these people Important?
Speaker 2:I think you're not sure about desert travel or not sure about Death Valley, certainly. I won't say it's for everybody, but definitely put it on your bucket list somewhere, wherever you are, that you can go to a remote desert area and see those big vistas, those big sky vistas. Watch the shadows dance across the mountains, see the dust swirling around, feel that biting heat on your face, the sand that's hot enough that you can feel it through the rubber of your shoes. You experience the night where it just chills down and the stars are so bright, even on a moonless night. You will wonder why can I still see? Shouldn't it be pitch dark out here, where I can't see the hand in front of my face? You realize that, wow, that's actually starlight.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it's lighting up the ground enough for me to see.
Speaker 1:It's beautiful.
Speaker 2:That is something you just rarely get, where you can get that all in one package and you wind up again getting used to not seeing green, although lately, as we know, with all these floods, there's actually been a lot of green out in the desert. Death Valley is so buried which is why I like it over any other desert area because very compact in a park that's roughly 130 miles long, top to bottom and at the widest barely 80 miles wide. But in that small area you've got waterfalls, you have crazy salt formations and water pools and all mines, and just on and on the geology there there's areas of the park which you have to get a private tour of from the park service that take you to a spot that has dinosaur footprints baked into the mud. This is a special tour. It's called the Barnyard. You can get on a tour and it's led by rangers. They don't allow any photographs or videos in there.
Speaker 2:But if something you can check into, where on else can you go in the world really and have this all in this area? So that's why I say, particularly, give Death Valley a try. The deserts are more about shadows and shades and nuances of color that you just don't see when things are so bright In a forest, that's a jungle. Everything's just bright, green and everything's very colorful. But you have to let your eyes adjust when you get onto a desert. But it's very rewarding when you give it a chance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was wondering if you had anything that you would like to say to people and our listeners who are looking at traveling to Death Valley or into these desert environments, specifically Death Valley. What would you have to say to them? What advice would you have for them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that the most important thing is to get a good overview. Just like going to any national park, death Valley can be intimidating because of its size I think I mentioned previously. It's basically the size of Connecticut's. Outside of the Alaskan Park it's the biggest park, and so I think the best thing to do is to just head right to the visitor center, no matter if you're going to stay for a day or a week. Go to Furnace Creek, check out the visitor center. There's a lot of volunteers and rangers there to just help you decide what's going to be the best thing.
Speaker 2:Most of the big touristy things that you can see in one or two days are within 15 miles of Furnace Creek, so that's just the best initial. Get in your feet wetlands of Death Valley and then branch out from there. I recommend to people on TripAdvisor that are asking questions about Death Valley Usually I'll say at least two nights, because you drive in there. Very often there are people coming in from Las Vegas, but you got to drive there and you're going to get yourself settled, get your room, maybe see a sunset. You really only have that middle day to do a lot of exploring and you can hit the big highlights in that time period and then maybe do a little deeper dive after that, if you get that desert bug.
Speaker 1:But don't take your Camry into the desert. Your rental Camry, it needs to be a parking lot.
Speaker 2:No, I mean I don't know if I mentioned it earlier, but I do drive a Jeep now. But my first vehicle in Death Valley was a 1999 Honda Accord. Really I actually slept in the car and I actually did take it on the graded gravel roads, which are not really gravel in Death Valley, it's more like giant rocks, like someone busted up with a sledgehammer destroyed tires, but I carried three full-size spare tires and enough food and water for a week of being stranded. In general I've heard that on the main roads at least, that it's about a four-day rotation to the farthest remote areas that a ranger would travel. So if you were at least not on some way remote Jeep trail, you're just on one of the gravel roads. You want to have enough to make it at least four days. That's kind of the rotation. They try to get every one of those roads every four days.
Speaker 2:So, knowing that I was in my Accord and the three full-size spare tires, of course I never had a flat. My next vehicle actually was a Toyota Camry, so I did the same thing. You have to drive very slow or drive very careful, but anyway I don't recommend it. But don't take your rent apart out there folks.
Speaker 1:Right before I met you, when I was driving into Death Valley, I saw a family in a Renta RV drive out onto the dunes oh my God, zink down into it. It's like man, you're big, make sure you have the right wheels.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that just happened. Recently. There's more and more people have been actually going off-road with their rental vehicles, not following the rules, not following the signage and just literally within the last couple of weeks, causing lots of damage. So please stay on the roads.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, man. That actually leads me right into my next question Any advice that you have to give people on getting into exploring desert environments and how you need to prepare and what that life is like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it almost becomes another hobby.
Speaker 2:So you may have the travel bug. You may like to just fly in, rent a car. See things when you go to where you're going to what they will call overlanding nowadays camping out of your vehicle, traveling from campsite to campsite, and the journey is the adventure. It's not showing up to a campsite and you put out the pink flamingos and you sit there for a week. So there are people that do that in Death Valley. I prefer to move around. I rarely will stay in one place more than one night.
Speaker 2:So for me, when I upgraded from a Camry believe it or not, like I'd mentioned to a Jeep, which is an old Wrangler 2-door, it became like a whole other hobby, because now your vehicle is your lifeline. So you've got to make sure that everything on that vehicle has been touched and make sure that it's in good working condition. Then you can add to your requirements of food, water, et cetera. You can add to that tires, because there's been more probably deaths or at least serious injuries in Death Valley related to poor tire choice, and the tires will strand you out there. So, yeah, it becomes another adventure. Of course, when you're on a Jeep, that's an adventure in itself, because they notoriously require a lot of maintenance, whatnot? So, yeah, I upgraded to that and started learning how to overland, basically, and that involves bringing everything you need in your vehicle. I have often taken the second seat out, so I'll take the passenger seat out and I'll sleep inside the Jeep, but I've also used tents and you're bringing a whole new bunch of stuff into the mix. You start learning how to pack lighter. What do I really need? And this brings on another element that I'm sure you've experienced in your travels with Ranger what do I really need to survive? I'm not one of these folks that want to go cook a steak dinner out in the middle of nowhere and set up a bar with mixed drinks.
Speaker 2:What I do is called backpacking on four wheels, and I try to trim and trim and it becomes almost like a game where you want to see how light and how little can I actually survive with. I'm down to a tub of food that's like a 12 by 12 box, and then my cooler and we're talking canned beans, sardines, crackers, instant meals, I put hot water in and my cook stove are those tiny little backpacking deals with the jet fuel and, yeah, it becomes another adventure and then you get to do it out there in the desert. So it becomes a lot of fun and then you can see the sights that most of the average tourists will not ever see. It gets you into a new realm of meeting people as well, too, because it's great to meet general tourists. A lot of people from Europe like Death Valley because they don't have anything like it. They've come out of some experience that eats in the summer, so I've met a lot of foreign tourists.
Speaker 2:But when you start doing the real remote stuff, you start meeting really like-minded people like yourself that you will oh, you're traveling. Where are you going? Yeah, we're on the sun trail over here. You wind up talking for a few minutes or sharing a campsite. It becomes a whole other thing and I've really enjoyed more recently talking with other people. Like I said, in the beginning I was really selfish with my time. I wanted to be alone out there, and now I find myself more gravitating to wanting to talk to other people that are doing the same thing. I've been doing that a lot on some Facebook groups and some other things like that. That, when you finally meet those like-minded people, yeah, it's pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, heck yeah, Outside of your vehicle, just in your pack, if you were venturing off trail or down trails. What do you keep in your pack? What are the essentials that people should be bringing with them?
Speaker 2:I actually have a video on my channel about that exact thing, but just to talk about it here briefly packing a backpack in the desert, it has to be different than a backpacking anywhere else that doesn't have an issue with water. So you really need to rethink and you need to make your backpack fit around what water you can carry, that's it. So you have to start thinking that your water is like the fuel tank in your car. You would never drive one way, 10 miles, knowing that you only have enough gas for five miles. Yet people will get their backpack loaded with every possible thing and their cookware and their bed roll and their sleeping bag and all this stuff and not carry water and then get out there and then realize they're in trouble and there's no fuel left in the body, there's no water left to get you back. Everything changes.
Speaker 2:I built my pack around a collapsible two gallon water jug. I found a pack that would fit that exactly when it was completely full. Now that's quite heavy. That's the rub is too bad. If you can't carry the water, you don't deserve to be going out on that kind of height.
Speaker 2:So this is where knowing your body comes in. You have to learn how much water your body will use based on the temperature. It's not about just drinking and drinking drinking as you spoke to earlier in the podcast that you can actually over drink, get into hype on atremia, be low on salt. It's not about just drinking and drinking. You can get yourself into a lot of trouble if you don't have the right water. Then you can talk about okay, what do I need for first aid kits, what do I need for tools? You need a knife, of course, things like that but always start with water. Your body can only absorb so much and there are actually websites where you can calculate how much water your body will use based on your age, your size, things like that. I encourage people to do that before you start any hike out in a desert environment. Yep.
Speaker 1:That can be life or death. Yep, absolutely. I have one more question for you, steve Sure. Would you rather go hang out on the desert planet Arrakis from Dune, or hang out at Tawine from Star Wars?
Speaker 2:I've got to go with Tatooine. That was my movie when I was a kid. That was the movie that excited me the most, of course, since many of those scenes were actually filmed in Death Valley. I think this was a trick question. You were just hoping. I said Tatooine, come to Death Valley and see the Star Wars filming sites. If there's anything, come for that.
Speaker 1:Heck. Yeah, dude, well said, perfect answer. Well, thank you so much, steve, for being on with me today. I think that this has been an absolutely great conversation and I'm so excited for people to hear it. I really appreciate it. That a real treat, absolutely. You, in my mind, are the epitome of an explorer and I super value our friendship and I look forward to whatever adventures you and I get to have next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I hope to do this again with you, and next time maybe it'll be in person face to face.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh yeah, we're putting it on the calendar For sure. So your social media, your YouTube channel, desert Rambler, would you like to let everybody know where they can find you and see your videos and follow your story?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to have your listeners come over to my YouTube channel. As you said, it's Desert Rambler. You could also search it with my handle, which is your Desert Rambler, with the words. I'll run together and you'll run Instagram. It's Desert Rambler one, the numeral one, desert Rambler one. So, yeah, come over there for all kinds of cool videos like heights, practical tips, lots of fun, weird, wacky things from the desert that I find out there. I'll turn into a video and, yeah, come on and join the fun.
Speaker 1:Perfect, Awesome man. Thank you so much. I think the biggest takeaway here is drink water and don't pet rattlesnakes. It's a great drink and stay away from the snakes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome man. Thank you again so much. You can find us on Spotify and on Apple Podcasts. We hope that you are enjoying our show and I hope that you found today's episode enlightening, interesting, and I hope that it inspires you to step out of your box and explore places that may seem uncomfortable or different. Get out into the desert. There's a lot of beauty to see, there's a lot of life that exists out there, and there's more water out there than you think. Thank you guys so much, and we will talk to you all next time. Bye.