Changing Roads Podcast
Changing Roads Podcast unveils the profound essence of travel, exploring not just the destinations, but the personal transformations within. We unravel the various themes, aspects and narratives of travel that define us, shape us, and lead us to the heart of our own stories.
Changing Roads Podcast
A Van Down by the River: The Shift to Nomadic Work and the New American Dream
When the familiar strains of home fade into the rear-view mirror, stories unfold on the winding road of a nomadic life. Chef Grayson McKee joins Brad and Ranger to discuss the service industry's highs and lows and the poignant shift, due to the economic turbulence of today, that drove Grayson (and others) to a nomadic working life. Their collective journey isn't just about moving from one place to another; it's a deeper exploration of the spaces between stability and freedom, the meaning of community, and the reinvention of 'home' in an age where roots are mobile.
This episode isn't just about change; it's about the metamorphosis that work and travel etch upon the soul. They contemplate the bittersweet symphony of Grayson's personal development that accompanies moving on from the loss of a close friend, finding solace in the grandeur of Alaska's wilderness, and the surprising career paths that open up when you leap into the unknown. They further discuss the new American dream of van life and remote work — a vision of liberation where the open road bids us to chase happiness, even with its inherent sacrifices.
They discuss the unexpected friendships and cultural exchanges that blossom in the nomadic workspace, tackling tough topics like racism and making tough calls for the greater good. They unpack the allure of seasonal work, the stark realities of the American cost of living, and the enduring question of how our choices and experiences shape our lives. Brad, Ranger and Grayson explore a timeless truth: the richest treasures in life are often not possessions, but the beauty of our experiences.
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Welcome wanderers, dreamers and fellow seekers of the open road. This is Changing Roads, a sanctuary for explorers of the world and the self. Our nomadic roots have inadvertently grown a unique species of tree that long ago forgot the need to produce seeds Comfortable in the soil they found. They dug in and began to misunderstand their purpose. The soil began to lose its nutrients, the green groves grew smaller and smaller and the health of the forest weakened. They needed to breathe. Now they suffocate. They failed to reproduce and spread. Now they begin to die, blinded by their individual glory. It was a harsh realization, causing them to re-examine the purpose of their roots and their ancient nature. And as a new air blows across their branches, they are remembering to cast upon it tiny seeds, trusting the wind to regrow a new and beautiful forest. We are those seeds, tiny little workers, which hold within them the power to reimagine and regrow a healthier planet.
Speaker 1:The rigid structures of jobs and work, tethered to a specific location, yield to a more fluid location, independent existence. This shift, born from both circumstance and desire, marks a profound evolution in our understanding of work and purpose. Through nomadic, remote and seasonal work, lives are undergoing transformations. For some, it's a lifeline, a pathway to survival and, for others, a deliberate choice leading to empowerment and autonomy. Regardless of the catalyst, personal and professional reinvention is now being nurtured in newfound soils as winds blow and horizons broaden. A nomadic marketplace of ideas emerges where cultures converge in creating rich mosaic of skills. This exchange fosters a workforce that is not only adaptable but resilient. The nomadic worker, whether driven by necessity or wanderlust, is now not merely surviving but thriving. We are once again learning what it means to flourish as lush green shades of greens, to fall softly as deep reds, oranges and yellows, to sleep peacefully in silent grays and whites, to awaken among blossoming purples, pinks and blues and then return richly to lush green. Over and over and over and over, we are learning that we cannot choose one color. We must fearlessly face, chase and embrace all of them. Welcome to Changing Roads.
Speaker 1:I am your host, brad, joined here by my co-host, ranger, my loyal travel companion, service dog and nomad Ranger, and I believe that you're going to find this episode today really interesting. It is a topic that is close to my heart, close to my guest's heart. We have both experienced and been directly affected by what we're going to be talking about today, which is nomadism and, specifically, nomadic lifestyle when it comes to work, either by choice or whether or not by choice. So he has a lot of good things to say here. I have a lot of good things to say here. We've known each other a long time. Our journeys have crisscrossed through the years over and over again, and this is just going to be a great conversation. I would like to introduce you to my good friend, the most viking of Vikings I know, grayson Mc. How are you doing, grayson?
Speaker 2:Thank you for the warm introduction. I'm doing all right, doing pretty well lately. Things are looking up and down at the same time. It's life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, totally. You have ended up all the way into Alaska. That's where you're at right now, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, I am on the outskirts of Kenai, alaska, after spending the summer outside of Denali Park in Northern Alaska. Are you like in Seward? No, I'm actually right outside the town of Kenai, which is west of Saldana.
Speaker 1:Okay, it is much colder where you're at right now.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Well, last I checked the temperature, it was negative 13.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a nice day in Alaska this time of year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been a little bit weird from the accounts that I've had from some of the locals, Even this summer up in Healy, Alaska, outside of Denali Park. When we were up there I got told it was a really weird weather year because they usually didn't get as much rain as they did and it was nice, Turned it into a fantasy land almost.
Speaker 1:Cool.
Speaker 2:I have plenty of professional animator photos of the Alaskan landscapes and the people in it.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, I was just there. It's one of the most beautiful places on earth, yeah, different from Texas right now. Oh yeah, it's a pleasant 60 degrees and raining here. Me and Grayson are talking about the weather, of course. So we're going to talk about what got Grayson to Alaska, because that's part of this story and this journey.
Speaker 1:And Grayson and I met many years ago in a small mountain town on the Arkansas River in Colorado, and back in the day it was our quiet little local mountain town. Everyone was happy, there was plenty of housing and people could make a living on the money that they were making at their jobs. And specifically in this conversation we're going to be talking a lot about the service industry people there. And it's a beautiful place. It's the only place I've been able to call home in my life. We have built a tribe of people down there that will always be family and that is how Grayson became my family.
Speaker 1:But over the years something has happened in Salida and it has caused a situation where people are being forced to leave the town and seek work elsewhere or are still there and struggling to survive because they're not able to get out. It's a very unfortunate thing. Grayson, I believe his journey in a lot of ways started there. Sure, it started before then. But of all people to be talking about this right now, I'm going to turn this over to Grayson. What do you think about this small mountain town on the Arkansas River?
Speaker 2:Well, honestly, just like you said, it's one of the very few, if only, places that I've ever been able to say that I can call home. We build your own reputation. Like you said, built a tribe of people who are trustworthy, like-minded and very open-hearted and generous, and it was a good town to put roots down in, at least at the time.
Speaker 2:I personally was working in the service industry. I started literally from the bottom in one of the restaurants. I started as a dishwasher, even though I'd had prior culinary experience. I wanted to go from A to Z, so to speak, and cover all the levels and started as a dishwasher for them, move my way out to prep, cook, and then I started doing some of the fryer and grill and saute stuff, started learning more and more, and then I helped open another restaurant on the Arkansas River, and it was a good place. We were able to make our own way. We were able to afford rent, at least compared to most places in Colorado at that point in time. And then, all of a sudden, I'm going to have to say that it was right. Around the same time, covid started A lot of jobs that were deemed non-essential closed down and a lot of people whose roots go back to the town's founding couldn't even afford to stay there anymore because their businesses were closed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say that. And also it got discovered as a tourist town, most definitely, and then a lot of these vacation rental companies came in and I'm not kidding bought up all of the housing. It's a very small town.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, around 4,000, but it really wasn't much in its small town. And you're completely right. Turn everything into all vacation rentals for ridiculous amounts of pricing, forcing the very people who held the infrastructure of that town to not be able to live there. I knew somebody who had been working in that town and living in that town prosperously for 10 years, forced to live in a tent outside the town in East Salida, and it was sad, it was very sad and it just never got any better, year by year. It even got to the point where, like I said, people who had generations in that town couldn't afford to stay there anymore and, even worse so, the people who came in and to the vacation rentals they started treating it like any other vacation spot. They were trashing it left and right, changing the very landscape of how everything was in a matter of a year or two.
Speaker 1:And the prices skyrocketed just in general, at the grocery store, at the restaurants, at the bars, and this is at the expense of the service workers at this point, Because the people coming in with money are able to buy these houses old houses that are just jacked up in price now. So now you have a situation where all of these things are getting bought up, the prices are skyrocketing and the people that are cooking and making your food and serving your drinks, no matter what their paycheck is, can't afford to live there and this whole service industry is now collapsing under itself. And I like to say you come in and you do something like that to a small town. Once you push all the service workers out, who's going to cook your food? You?
Speaker 2:I remember a time where I'm sure you know most of who I was living with at the time, but we had four to five incomes in one household and we could barely afford to keep the rent up and it really wasn't much in the way of privacy or good living at all and asking for a raise was like pulling teeth, especially for some of the business owners who themselves were getting prices imposed on them they couldn't afford to, even unless they jacked their prices up, to even live themselves or continue keeping open business. After the COVID regulations and changes and the whole energy of the town that happened to switch almost seemingly overnight to people who've been there their whole life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's really sad now because all my friends who were once doing really well. You go back and you see them suffering, you see it in their eyes and they're just emaciated and they're struggling and a lot of people get out of there and that's what we're about to get into, but a lot of people don't have the means to get out of there anymore because they're so broke, they're struggling so much and they're stuck there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they're in debt.
Speaker 1:And their lives are literally crumbling because of this. But there were some of us who were able to make it out. I got out, I had the ability to get out, and Grayson needed to get out. He got put in a situation where it was just unsustainable. A lot of things had happened in his life, but he just wasn't able to make it work there anymore.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately and I would like to point out, too, that Grayson is one of the hardest workers I have ever known he runs a kitchen like I've never seen, cooks the best food that you've ever had. And this guy works his butt off. So it's not about the quality of his work, it's not like he's being lazy. He's working his butt off, working over 50 hours a week and still can't make ends meet. So now you have to leave. Now you don't have a choice, because you have to live, you have to survive, you have to provide for yourself, you have to have a place to sleep, you have to be able to eat and not ramen every day. So get out. Tell me what led to that.
Speaker 2:I was working for a pretty well-known restaurant in town with a couple of my buddies. We were the town clowns. Everybody came to have a fine dining experience and see a bunch of goofballs in the back joking around, and it was a great time. But the owner ended up selling his restaurant to somebody who wasn't so great and new to town and, the long story short, my wage wasn't matching my bills and I was not living comfortably. There was only so many jobs you can work, only so many hours you can work. When you're not making a good wage before the fatigue starts to set in pretty hard and you're just I call it chasing fatigue. You're getting just enough sleep to keep going, just enough to keep surviving, keep working, but you're not doing anything for yourself, for your mental health or for your own body that is beneficial or recoverable.
Speaker 1:You're just existing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, pretty much, you're just droning on. And I had asked this not so great new owner for a raise and he not only told me I was not worth that raise, he started to berate me and a couple of days later I came into him trying to hand me a termination letter. So at the time I did not have a choice but to get up and go. I couldn't afford rent, I couldn't afford to stay there. I wasn't going to be a burden on anybody else but myself and I felt the most responsible and smart thing to do was to take you up on your offer to go to a national park in Montana and accept a cooking job there, where I was very well recognized for my talents and my hard work almost immediately.
Speaker 1:I want to say that what led to that was you had taken right at the same time, when you were trying to get out of Salida. You took some pretty hard punches.
Speaker 2:Yeah, previously I did take some pretty hard punches. I had lost a lot of people in my family. I was struggling with the care and mental health of another family member, and a person that I loved dearly and thought that I would be spending the rest of my life with ended up dying, and it turned my entire world upside down. So, on top of juggling the aspect of money and living situation, I had to deal with this newfound grieving and trauma and this whole process, and it became a very confusing and wild ride.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was a good friend of all of ours. She was one of the most beautiful people I've ever met and it was a huge blow to everybody in that town. But I watched you grieve. You guys had something special and when she went that messed a lot of people up and you just couldn't handle it anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was too much in the town in the way of bad memories at that point and I had spent a lot of time planning our life out together and we had made plans for it and it just came crashing down all at once. Her death was the anti adhesive that kind of led to us all going our own ways Because we all hung out. We all had one place, almost like a tribal gathering to, where we could come, be free, be us, be creative. That is actually how me and her met was in this setting.
Speaker 1:How you and I met.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very true. That is how you and I met and, like you said, her death shook everybody and everybody started retreating into their own little corners and it became a difficult road for all of us, myself especially, because not only at that point was I grieving, but I had to deal with being blackballed in a town that I thought I was going to put roots down, in a town that I had made friends with people to the point where they had become family. Still to this day, I still talk to every one of them and they beg and plead me to come back, but right now it's not financially feasible.
Speaker 1:So when you left, actually, salida, you were struggling and you didn't know where to go, where to find your roots, where to go work, and you ended up in town, on the New Mexico, colorado border right.
Speaker 2:Yes, I went back to the place I had partially grown up in and went to high school in. It's a little place in the San Luis Valley, Western San Luis Valley. It's another little small mountain town, but less so nice.
Speaker 1:That's when I was up working at the National Park and I had gotten in touch with you and you just you broken man Like you couldn't. Nothing was working out, you couldn't survive. Everything was shattered and you couldn't even make a living at that point. And that's when I was like, hey, man, up here in this National Park, they are dying for someone that can cook food and run a kitchen. And, man, you need to get up here. I can get you the job. And I think that this is the time to make that move and get on the road and just leave it all behind. Man, come up here, it's going to be awesome for you. And that's what happened, and I think that's what started you on the nomadic working journey. Am I correct?
Speaker 2:Yes, you are absolutely correct. When I started talking to you about that job you had offered I will not lie I was extremely hesitant because I had never really worked a seasonal job and I've lived in small towns most of my life whether it be working for mom and pop restaurants, fine dining stuff like that, that's always been a real familiar atmosphere. So I was extremely hesitant at first but going up there, honestly I felt like I really needed that afterwards. Up there in Montana it was the most piece I had felt in my adult life since Amira had died.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I already knew. That's why I asked you. I knew that was a journey that you needed to begin and I knew that was a place that you could begin to heal.
Speaker 2:To the day I die. I will always appreciate that opportunity because it really changed things around. It gave me the same feeling as when I moved to Slido the first time from the San Luis Valley. It was just me, against the world, making my own way, letting my character speak for me, letting my work ethic speak for me. I had signed on as only a line cook and there were some first timers in the kitchen, this kid who was studying to be a neuroscientist. He wanted a summer job before he started school, build up some money and be able to have a little bit of playroom when he was in college.
Speaker 1:That's actually a really good point that you just brought up, that he's going to school for neuroscience. Right, and that's an aspect to the nomadic travel is you can also go do these things like work in a national park, even if it's not your career, but they offer opportunities in the middle and I'm sorry to stop you. That's just a really good point.
Speaker 2:Exactly Like I was saying. We had first timers, second year returners, people who had none to some experience in the kitchen, and I was just casually teaching people the things I knew. But our executive chef was the one filling in for our sous chef, because our sous chef, the day I started, apparently had COVID. This was a blessing in disguise, because the executive chef, after he sees me offering these people tips and teaching them certain things, and I'm just casually doing it like hey, if you turn your hand like this and move your wrist like this, hold the knife like this, it'll go a lot faster. And make sure you use a sharp knife. This is how you sharpen the knife properly. You got to clean it off. This is how you sanitize this.
Speaker 2:And I didn't notice that the executive chef had just been watching me the whole time. And then he comes up and, I quote, says hey, fam, can I see you in the freezer for a minute? And he said it just like that. So I was like, ok, that sounds a little. Did I, did I? Did I do something wrong? And he was like I'm going to promote you to the lead cook and sous chef of the employee dining room and for every day that you have worked and everything that you already have logged today and yesterday, when I wasn't here. You're going to be backpaid as if you were paid your new wage the whole time. And I was just taken aback because, for the first time, my casual skill set Was being recognized as really professional and worthy of being paid a decent rate.
Speaker 1:These new opportunities are rising and places that rely on seasonal and nomadic workers. They appreciate their employees more and they treat them in a way that shows their appreciation, because without they wouldn't be able to function, and it's amazing how much more you are appreciated and things like this just open up beautiful opportunities that you wouldn't get stuck in a small town that is dying and doesn't appreciate you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, like it was an extremely contrasting experience because I will admit the places that I did work for in Colorado like it was good experience to have. It was good to be in the fire, so to speak, but I don't think they would have ever pulled me out of the fire. I don't think that. I don't think they would have put me back on the anvil to shape me, so to speak, because there's only so many jobs in that place, so many places to live that are affordable now and people are competing. It's sad. Friends are competing, people who call each other brother, don't want to see anybody else get a promotion or God forbid a raise because it might mean less for them. In Montana it definitely wasn't like that. It was oh, you have this skill set. Well, how about we pay you this much to help us out on this front? And I've gotten return letters. I've gotten offers from places I never would have thought in a million years.
Speaker 2:Five years ago, this opportunity had opened up a lot for me. Not only had it opened up a lot professionally for me, it gave me avenues to go elsewhere during my off seasons. This is how I met a couple of my friends. I'm not going to use their full name. One of them was named Jay. He was a good kid and he lived in Central Colorado, a bit north of where we were, and he was used to working for a big ski company and he had offered me a place and a role out there, something I never would have thought of had I not been placed in that situation. Also, at the same time and I'm going to warn everybody about this, because this happens a lot with seasonal jobs Don't fall in love unless you're real sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It happens a lot to where there are foreign exchange students or people from other countries who come for work at the National Parks for the sole reason of either experiencing the other side of the world and seeing the things you're there to see, or scamming you for affection. The Chinese girl that I ended up dating turned out to be married.
Speaker 1:That's actually a really good point and I'm glad you brought it up, because that's another aspect to this nomadic work, and what you're talking about right now is people on. They're called J1 visas, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is one of the visas that they can get. It's either J1 or I forget the other two. I believe there are one or two, don't quote me on that, but they're not J1 specifically. But J1 is like university students who are looking for work abroad, to add to their resume, so to speak, and they do take work at National Parks and travel companies quite a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that same thing actually happened to me. When I was working disaster response in Katrina. I met this lovely Spanish woman that didn't speak any English and I didn't speak Spanish and we fell in love. In New Orleans and I went back to Houston with her on a whim and, yeah, it was a disaster. So don't fall in love. Disaster ship, you're traveling nomad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't fall in love unless you're extremely sure, because emotions can come on hot and heavy in new situations. People are not how they seem and you have to remember that there are good people generally in the world. But one of the aspects of nomadic work is they'll take almost anybody I eat. What I'm leading into is I had gotten the offer to work at the ski resort in Central Colorado, north of where we're from, and, like I said, they'll take anybody. But when I entered my employee housing I was. They usually room you with somebody and I'm not sure if they did a background check because the first person I got roomed with ended up OD. Ouch yeah, and it was not a. It was not a great experience, especially first time working for that company.
Speaker 1:Was this the same ski resort that I worked at as well? I do believe so. There's another crisscrossing of our paths.
Speaker 2:Yes, Also it is where I followed my friend Jay to go work at because we ended up living in the same building and we hung out and went snowboarding or snowshoeing or just doing dumb crap in the middle of town the ski resort life. But first person that they roomed me with ended up OD and I'm not sure if he died or not, but it was a very not okay experience. When I ended up switching my housing that's when things got a little bit better until supply and demand in a highly urban area had prices really high in that point in Colorado and I wasn't really able to feed myself and that certain company had made promises on my contract to provide me a certain amount of hours that they did not keep. And it made it. It made it even more so. The struggle plus their employee housing was a 45 minute commute one way.
Speaker 1:That's another thing I wanted to bring up. This is a similar example of what happened in the town where you and I met. This is a common problem and this is a major ski resort. If we told you the name, you'd be like oh yeah, this is like where Taylor Swift goes skiing. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I served walk a flock in my restaurant at the base of the ski mountain. It was quite interesting.
Speaker 1:But this is a. This is another example of your. You are there to support this resort that needs people in the service industry to keep it running, and it's another situation where their workers are unappreciated and as long as someone's back there cooking, they could care less about the quality of life of their workers. And their workers get used, not utilized. There's a difference, and I worked there too, I had to make that commute as well, and that was the solution was oh, you can't afford to live, you don't want to be employee housing, we'll just stick you in this town 45 minutes away. You go over here and we'll be right here, just out of sight, out of mind. It's really unfortunate and is endemic in a lot of these resort places, which is something I wanted to touch on in this conversation because it does have to do with nomadic traveling work.
Speaker 2:It really does, and part of nomadic traveling is you have to keep in mind a lot of the reason people do it is because it offers lower rates on housing. It offers you a guaranteed place to stay, like employee housing most of the time. That is one of its appeals is the certain fact that I can have a. I can have three meals in a day and a place to stay for 400, 500 bucks a month. Some places they do it free, some places they do it reduced. It just depends on where you go, and In Colorado it wasn't that cheap even to work there and, yeah, they offered reduced rates in housing, but housing rates are still housing rates and it's pretty bad all around. But that's one of the appeals. It's supposed to be guaranteed hours, guaranteed food and a guaranteed place to stay in order to make this place run.
Speaker 1:And then you find yourself in another situation where you're not putting money in your bank account and being able to save it and build it up so that you can find a better opportunity or go to a place where you wanna put roots. Now you're back to the same situation of living paycheck to paycheck and surviving.
Speaker 2:Exactly Might. I say it's one of my points of reference that when I do a seasonal job, I try to save at least 10,000, because it's actually quite possible If you've got your head about you, you keep your nose clean, you keep your head out of the clouds and you focus. For me, it was to see the world and save money those two things simultaneously. It's a point for me to have a goal in mind when you get out there and have the necessary tools and amenities to complete that goal. Now, this year I'm trying.
Speaker 2:I had to sell my vehicle before I even left Salida in order to start traveling. I made that sacrifice because they paid for my traveling out there and I was able to pay for my traveling back. And then I followed people into Breckenridge and between that time I had stayed with a family member for two weeks. I didn't really take time off for myself between the summer and winter season. I just got right to it, back into work and back into a stable situation. And it's a point of reference to try to save anywhere from eight to 10K every season, because in order to be anywhere near sustainable in life or have goals, you need to be able to save a little bit of money and it takes a lot of sacrifice. So, that being said, if you're not being paid what you're owed and your hours are not being provided to you as promised, it becomes a big problem when you're still paying the rates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. That's super good advice. That's something that everyone can take away, no matter if you're a nomadic worker or if you work out of an office. Well said man, stick the money away. And if you're not able to stick money away, then you're in the wrong spot.
Speaker 2:Exactly and it's very important to be able to recognize that. And if you bring it to people's attention and nothing's done, you got to go, you got to find somewhere else that will pay you, because it's not feasible in today's economy and society to not have money. Living on your own or living independently is ever so much harder.
Speaker 1:Because of COVID and some of the things that have happened since then this new idea of van life and these digital nomads and people that are flexing that they can sell their house, not have to pay mortgage, not pay their bills or not have you should always pay your bills, but not have to pay utilities and you can now work out of your van on the road remotely, which allows you the opportunity to see the world and explore the world and travel and be immersed and actually experience it and not be locked inside of a box, and I think that is a really cool thing, something that I have tapped into, something that I'm going to tap into more.
Speaker 1:I personally am looking at buying a van and turning it into a podcast studio and taking this podcast on the road, and we have the ability to do that now because of technology and because of changing dynamics in the workforce and the ability for people to work remotely, and it's something that I think should be recognized and taken advantage of because it's opening opportunities for people but they may have never had before.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:I've been more and more into the idea since I got up here to Alaska and actually leading into that, one of the things I wanted to say is I got my opportunity in Alaska from working with another person who appreciated my work ethic in Central Colorado where I was at the ski resort, and they offered me the opportunity to come up to Denali Park in Alaska and I see more and more of it as I'm out here in these national parks just people living comfortably and happily out of a van or a travel wagon or something like that, and it used to be like living down by the river in a van was an insult.
Speaker 2:Now it's an American dream and that dream isn't looking so bad anymore because in my experience I've been able to see Alaska. I've been able to see Montana, glacier National and Denali Park. I've been able to see the Kenai Peninsula wilderness. I've been able to see Bays in Homer Alaska. I've been able to go to different slopes and peaks and on superb and beautiful hikes in different mountain ranges all across the Northwestern US, and it's a blessing that I wish more and more people would realize is there.
Speaker 1:This model of remote, nomadic work is increasing quality of life and your experience in this world, and that's what it's about. At the end of the day, if you don't have great quality of life, then why are you? What are you doing? Like you work in a box and then you come home, go to sleep and then you wake up and you're wash, rinse, repeat, right back in the grind. That's been the model.
Speaker 1:People haven't realized that quality of life is what life is about and this lifestyle is opening that opportunity to people. That's what makes a successful workforce as well. You want people to be happy, because you don't get good workers if they're not happy, right? That's part of the model with these seasonal jobs is these employers know that their workers are going to be successful and productive because they're intrinsically happy, because they're working and living in Denali National Park. Right, how can you increase your employees' quality of life? And that's just a basic concept that I think is just now starting to be recognized and understood and why there's this movement to move to the concept of remote work and nomadic work just like a buddy of mine, two of the buddies of mine that I made in Glacier National Park.
Speaker 2:They had a phrase that we would say all the time it's the people make the park Truth, the people make the park, and basically what that means is the employees, their quality of life, their happiness is reflected in their work ethic and it's one of the few job fields that I have seen to where that's a direct correlation and it's right away seeable and it's like one of the. The other jobs who do it are so few and far between that. You don't see it that often, but when you see it with any job and like I said, I see it mostly with the park jobs when people are appreciated, you see it that.
Speaker 1:Adds to their experience, their travel experience in that park Right there. I've been to national parks that I instantly hated, just because when I pulled up the gate the person looked pissed off and it set the tone and I was like man that that person doesn't want to be here and it doesn't like me coming through the gate. So that sets the tone for my entire experience there. And then I'm like, oh, this sucks, I don't like the energy here.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, employees definitely set the tone and if you don't treat your employees right, it starts to reflect, and the ski resort in Colorado, it started to reflect.
Speaker 1:I'll never ski there again.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, we had a lot of J ones that were mistreated. They were promised housing along with their employee contracts, and they were. They were not provided the housing. In fact, they stuck them into hotels like the two bedroom suite hotels. There's 11 people living in one of those two bedroom suites and they still each had to pay, like a good, like 6, 700, 900 in some cases, a month each.
Speaker 1:I've actually seen that before, where American workers like you and me will go to a place and we get housed, maybe have a roommate, and then they will take the J ones and they'll stick them into. They'll have four or five roommates in this tiny place it's. They're treated differently than us and that's really messed up and it happens and they're like oh, they're from overseas, they're just J ones, that's easy work and well, company straight.
Speaker 2:If I'm correct, if I remember right, there was a lot of talk and conjecture between what was happening and between their experiences and I witnessed accounts. But from what I was hearing, from what I experienced with my own J ones in my kitchen, they were all stuck in horrible situations, way overpaying the rates. They had bad commutes just like I did, sometimes even farther than I did, like one one or like an hour or 20 minutes one way just to get to from work. So that's a lot of your day right there. Then you have to come home to no privacy and you're overpaying the rates, not being able to send back the money or put back the money that you were supposed to be able to make while you're abroad.
Speaker 1:And there's still some of the hardest workers in the industry. Even with that different treatment, they value the ability to come from their country to America and be a part of that experience in these places and they are, regardless. They are some of the hardest workers in that.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I have worked with a bunch of Thai people. I've worked with a bunch of Jamaican, I've worked with a bunch of Dominican Republic and Puerto Rican and Bohemian people, bulgarians, romanians, every flavor and color of the world. And they all have one thing in common they have this drive to prove themselves as a hard worker. And a lot of them are trying to set up lives back home, and I've heard it from a lot of them that it doesn't. They see how hard us Americans work. We work just as hard as they do, sometimes, if not harder. This past summer in Denali, I was working at peak, 16 hour days. It was pretty rough. And they're like don't you ever take a break? And I'm like oh, I can't really afford to. And they're like back home, it is not this hard to build a life or save money.
Speaker 1:And I'm like really, there's a lot that we can learn from them, as much as there's a lot that they can learn from us. We're working nomadically for different reasons in different countries. We appreciate our own country in a different way than they do. But that's a cool thing about nomadic travel and work is that you're working with people from all over the country, all different cultures, people from across the world that are coming. You're working with a melting pot of cultures. Oh yeah, mix all that together. There is so much to learn from and appreciate and make part of you and take home with you. That's a really special part of this kind of work that I've always loved and found really valuable.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. I attribute a lot of my growth to that diversity, a lot of what I've learned, especially in the kitchen. Now I'm at chef de parti level and I only attribute that to my ability to be able to run around in the kitchen confidently doing the things that I've learned from everybody else around me, and a lot of the recipes, a lot of the different styles, a lot of different applications of what I can do come straight from things that I've learned from people who are from the most obscure parts of Brazil or the Andes Mountains or say they're from Thai, or they're Thai or from, or Cambodian or Filipino, like. I've learned so many things and I am so grateful for it, and now, because of it, I have friends all over the world.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, and you're a better chef.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm a better chef, I'm a better man for it.
Speaker 2:I've gotten to experience different cultures and, honestly, it's opened my eyes to a lot of the mistakes our country makes.
Speaker 2:Thank you, in the sense that we're not really taught to be interactive about our experiences and they're very open about it, and it provides a lot of different insight, a lot of different angles.
Speaker 2:It made me self-aware of my situation and look at it from a better angle, even though she was married the Chinese chick I found that out eventually, but the Chinese chick that I had dated had provided me a lot of different insights and angles on finances in a way that I had never been taught or looked at before. And I attribute now I hate to say it in my older adult life and in my late 20s, my ability to do my finances in a smarter and healthier way. I attribute it to the experience that I had with her. My cooking skills really opened up in different ways when I started melding with some Middle Eastern and European people, from India, from Turkey. I've gotten some recipes from some Bulgarian people and heard and experienced the lore behind what goes into these ingredients and it's a really cool experience and it opens up a lot of questions and answers at the same time.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, perfect. Venturing out into the world to work and interact with people on that level is something that will help you become a better, more well-rounded person. That sets you at a very high level in the work industry. It sets you apart. That is something that should be recognized People like you who have gone out into the world and have interacted with these people in such an intimate way. You are a more highly qualified chef now than the people back in our small community town. Can you imagine what you would add to that town now if you went back there?
Speaker 2:Oh, I've talked to it. I'm not afraid to put his name out there, homeboy Dylan Dilly Bob. He has talked to me multiple times about having me come back out there With everything you've experienced. Like if we had the backing, if we had the funding, we could reopen one of these closed restaurants and actually put something down that people are going to appreciate. It would be something for the town itself and the people who grew up there and lived there in the past decade to look forward to. And I also get what you mean on your original point.
Speaker 2:My ability to communicate with people from all walks of life have grown so much and I have put that in my resume because you can't have somebody that just came from a school program, I'm gonna say, or from a vocational college that has never been outside their state and dropped them into one of those positions because they're not gonna know how to talk to people in a certain way, and I've actually seen that quite a lot. In Montana they hired a sous chef, another sous chef to cover the other shifts that I was getting a little too tired for. The guy was from Louisiana. He's an older dude in his 60s Been a breakfast cook most of his life and a small mom and pop place and I completely appreciated everything that his recipes and everything were top notch. But he was so impersonable. He was not a tactful speaker at all and he made some quite frankly racist comments towards a couple of our Tai-Jay ones and I had to do something about the situation. That was not a pleasant experience for me.
Speaker 1:Drag him into the woods and cover him in bacon and let the bears get up.
Speaker 2:No more. So drag him over to the head bosses place and be like look, we can't have comments like so-and-so just made and there are dozens of people to witness this and I'm like, I'm sorry, but that would almost cause an international incident, not to mention an HR incident.
Speaker 1:There are also dozens and people of people waiting in line for these jobs, right.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Want these so bad. And there is a long line of people that see our vision and appreciate it and want these jobs. So if you're not there for the right reason, then you can give that opportunity to someone else who is there for the right reason.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I'm trying to do it for a betterment of my life and the people in my life. I want to be able to save up enough money to buy a plot of land, whether it be in Colorado or Alaska leaning towards Alaska, it's a little bit cheaper out here and far away from people. I'm a people person up into a certain point.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, dude. I was going to ask you about that actually, when you left Denali, why did you stay until the brutalness of Alaskan winter hit?
Speaker 2:Funny enough, I'm an avid gamer and I had, since Red Dead Redemption came out, had been playing with a friend that I met online there, who lived in Alaska and that was, I don't even know, six to eight years ago, somewhere in that range, and it's almost consistently every night or every other night. For years I have talked to this person, been a part of this person's life. He became a good friend. Well, as my season in Denali came to an end, I needed a break because I was working a lot, to the point where I started to have problems with my blood pressure.
Speaker 2:My body started breaking down because of how much stress I put myself under during the summer season and I had lost a few family members and friends, some due to suicide, other due to medical reasons. So I was under a lot of stress and duress and I needed to take a break from life. Had a little bit of money in my pocket and that very same friend who I now know on a first name basis. He offered me a place down here to stay next to him or near him, because there are some vacancies for pretty cheap. That could have only been achieved if I had acted on it at that moment and I said you know what I need to take a break, paid the appropriate person couple thousand dollars ahead in time and decided to take my winter break doing nothing but Alaskan things.
Speaker 1:You're hibernating for the winter.
Speaker 2:Pretty much.
Speaker 1:So what happens when you come out of hibernation? What's next? Where are you going next, Van?
Speaker 2:I actually just reapplied to my job in Denali Park. I'm hoping that I get the job. Like you said, there are a lot of people in line for these jobs and just because you worked there once and you were appreciated doesn't really mean that you'll get the job next year. So I figured I'd just go ahead and put my application back in why not? I'm already in the same state and if I can get a vehicle out here and get my passport renewed at the end of that season, I would be coming back to Colorado, but I wanted to do some of the national parks in Canada, on my way back from Alaska through the Yukon and then down through Glacier, back through Montana, all the way down to.
Speaker 1:Colorado. The national parks I went to in Canada are some of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my life. Banth, go work it, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, okay. Banth and Glacier National, some of the most absolutely beautiful places I've ever been in my life the crystal clear waters, the mountains, the mountains, the peaks, the hikes, the floor and the fauna. It's just, it's not an experience to be missed or wasted.
Speaker 1:Banth is another one of those towns that relies on seasonal work, so you want to go live in a place that's beautiful. We're working in the most beautiful place on the planet, so those opportunities are there. We just hit a lot of good points and I think that people are going to come away from this with a lot to take away and bring back into the world.
Speaker 2:I really hope so, honestly. I just want to say that I got forced into this life by circumstance and now it just seems as the only way for me to be able to save any money for life, because if I tried to set down routes back home in Colorado or anywhere across the US, now it's just not feasible. Having to choose between eating and rent is not something that the American people should have to be going through.
Speaker 1:The universe works in mysterious ways sometimes, man. Yes, sir, it does. I think that it puts you right where you needed to be in life. So no regrets.
Speaker 2:Oh, there's a few, but, as I tell people, you may have regrets, but to live with them is the sign of building on strength and building on experience. And to everybody who is starting over, just remember you're not starting from the beginning, you're not starting from scratch. You're starting from experience, truth, trust in yourself, because if you do, it might just lead you to some new skill sets, new opportunities, new friends and new experiences.
Speaker 1:Perfect, Cool man. That's a great way to leave this, and thank you for saying that. I have a couple of questions for you before we end. Go ahead and shoot buddy. What are your thoughts on Bear Bells?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, Okay, Bear Bells don't work.
Speaker 1:Bear Bells are dinner bells right.
Speaker 2:Yes, Bear Bells are dinner bells.
Speaker 1:If I gave you a thousand dollars, would you try and tie a Bear Bell to a bear's neck? Absolutely not. But if I promised you that if you got it on its neck I would take it off, Okay, then maybe If you're also putting your life on the line, maybe man Grayson, thank you so much for being on.
Speaker 1:What an awesome conversation. It's been, one that I've been wanting to do an episode about for a while, because it's so relevant these days. It can change lives and open up opportunities for people that they may have never had before or didn't know was available to them. So I really hope that people take from this maybe a new mindset and maybe it can change the way they work, live and experience the world, and I can't think of a better person to have had this conversation with than you, my friend. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you. Thank you for having me, buddy. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk and I really hope this can at least provide a little bit of insight to anybody who might have been curious.
Speaker 1:I have one more question for you, man who wanted to give you the opportunity, if you would like, to honor Amir's name.
Speaker 2:I would like to honor her in saying something that she said to me quite a lot. Don't be afraid to be yourself, because you don't know who's looking up to you, you don't know who looks at you for strength, and you'd be surprised at how many do so. All those who doubt themselves and are still here and still around, just keep going, keep pushing and keep being that light in the dark for other people.
Speaker 1:There you go, man. That's Amir's voice and you, the world just heard it and it stays alive. Rest in peace, ms Amir. We love you and we miss you dearly. Rest in peace, and may Amir up as well, still here making an impact on people's lives.
Speaker 2:Yes, sir, every day in mine.
Speaker 1:Heck, yeah, man. All right, buddy, love you. We're going to cut this off, otherwise you and I would talk for hours and hours.
Speaker 2:Cutting my friend.
Speaker 1:Thank you. You can find us on Spotify and on Apple Podcasts. We hope you're enjoying this podcast. We appreciate all of you as listeners and I love you. Ranger loves you and I think that Grayson might love you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I love you, love you all.
Speaker 1:Grayson loves you too. All right guys, we will talk to you all next time. Thanks, bye.