# Episode 4: How wider digital education could have a big impact
Sarah Winters: Hello, welcome to the Global Content Design podcast. Today we're talking to Katherine Igiezele, also known as Kat. She's a UX writer, an industry speaker, and she's a dedicated UX educator on platforms such as ADPList and her own UX writing community which is called UX Content Champ.
Today we're talking about everything content in Nigeria.
[Intro music]
Sarah: Hi Kat, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Katherine Igiezele: Hi Sarah, thanks for having me.
Sarah: Yeah, no worries. First of all, why don't you tell me where are you in the world?
Katherine: I'm currently in Nigeria. That's West Africa, Nigeria.
Sarah: Mm-hmm. And tell me a little bit about your role and how you kind of got to where you are now.
Katherine: My journey into UX writing content design was a little bit, I would say, unconventional. Mine came through the world of SEO, so through the world of search. I used to write search engine optimised content as a copywriter. So I had no say as to whatever happens to the users after they are converted from Google.
So this led me to explore more challenging roles, like for instance being the sole content developer in a startup where I was opportune to write social media copies to website copies, landing pages, transactional emails. You know, this kind of solidified my interest and experience. This has shaped the kind of multidisciplinary approach I have to doing UX writing at Toptal where I get to collaborate with engineering, marketing, design and even customer teams to overlap our business goals with our user's goals as well.
Sarah: This sounds great. So what is digital like in Nigeria? How is content seen?
Katherine: Digital content, I would say, is currently evolving. I mean, we just had our first content design UX writers conference.
Sarah: Yay!
Katherine: Yeah, I think mainly because the influence mobile has everywhere, not just in Nigeria, mobile is increasingly becoming the default. But we're seeing this increase mainly amongst younger and urban demographics. There's still a lot more to be done in terms of rural users and, you know, people that aren't so tech savvy. But then there is still a large increase, a significant increase in sectors like finance.
We have so many amazing finance tech companies and an improvement in e-commerce as well. So yeah, digital content is really, really evolving as mobile is evolving so as well.
Sarah: Okay. Because here some companies will design for laptops and tablets and then mobile is a bit of an afterthought. Whereas what you're saying is, in Nigeria, mobile is really pushing development. Is that right?
Katherine: Yeah, I think the challenge you're talking about is still the same thing here, because people will always still design for web first before optimising for mobile. But that was why when I said it, I said it's mainly amongst the younger demographics, because the younger people tend to be more tech inclined. So everyone has a mobile device, everyone has friends they want to chat with. So there's so much to do on mobile compared to desktop. So in terms of seeing all that growth, we're seeing it in that younger demographics and also people in the urban areas.
Sarah: It's a real problem to try and get to people who don't have a mobile phone. Do you have any view of the kind of exclusion/inclusion areas of digital?
Katherine: So for example, I know for a fact that when it comes to rural areas, people who tend to be more like farmers, market people - that's traders - and those kinds of traditional occupations. It takes a lot of convincing, first of all, to explain to them how digital could influence what they are already doing. Because what they are doing is like, I wake up in the morning, I take my tools, I go toil the ground, right? So there's a lot of outreach, probably using, introducing icon first designs, designs that are not really too heavy on text per se.
We have, I think in Nigeria alone, we have over 500 local languages. So if you're thinking of localisation, it is really, really challenging. I know some companies are exploring that right now, but I can't really say for a fact that it's mainstream yet, but there's like serious opportunity there. Because if content can be, you know, localised into the local languages of these people in the rural areas, it would make such an impact.
Sarah: Let's just pull that out. 500. There's over 500 local languages?
[Both laughing]
How different are these languages? Is it like a little tweak here and there or is it like a completely different vocabulary?
Katherine: Okay, so one interesting thing about Nigeria here is that first of all, we have 3 major languages. So we have 3 major ethnic groups that they call the 3 major languages. So within these major languages, there are like subsets, and, you know, more subsets, and, you know, just smaller languages. So in some areas it's probably little tweaks. The phonetics are a little bit similar, you could try to guess what another person is saying. But in some areas it's totally different.
Sarah: Right, we're on a podcast so you can't tell that my jaw has just hit the floor. If you're government, or if you're, you know, something that is nationwide, how do you communicate when people have over 500 little tweaks to their language? How do you do that?
Katherine: Okay, so I think what really helps is that first of all, we are actually an English speaking country. So our lingua franca is actually English. So if the government was to communicate anything, I think it would be English first because that is our lingua franca. But then I believe there will be other aids to transcribe or communicate to the other folks that don't understand English. But first of all, we are English speaking. I speak English. Hi!
[Both laughing]
Sarah: I know and you have a beautiful voice.
Katherine: Thank you.
Sarah: I could listen to you read the phonebook out. It's gorgeous. I'm just really curious. Can you give me like a concrete example of something that may be very different?
Katherine: If I were to apply for something that is really, really locally inclined, then I'll perhaps need to meet some of my friends that are familiar with the locals of that place and get a tip or 2. So yeah.
Sarah: That's mad, that just kind of takes user research to a whole new level.
Katherine: It does actually, yes. You're right.
Sarah: So what are the challenges around producing content?
Katherine: We always reference research case studies or studies done by our friends in Europe for example. We don't really have much accessible data from studies that have been, you know, carried out by a group of user researchers in Nigeria.
So it's a lot more challenging trying to bring people from diverse areas together to try to make sense of something. Also sometimes some of the tools for user research, some of them aren't really accessible to Nigerians.
Sarah: So user research, is that a big thing in Nigeria? Do you all have access to researchers?
Katherine: We do have user researchers. I know a couple of them. Judging from when I used to work with local companies, maybe you could just be lucky to have 1 on your team. If you're really, really lucky. And I think that's also why UX writers or content designers tend to be really, really multidisciplinary because even if there is no user researcher, at least you can conduct some discovery research at base level and be able to do some content specific research and then interpret that data into actionable words.
Sarah: Sometimes in some countries in some areas content isn't really valued. People don't listen, really. When content people say no you can't have 5000 words on x, you know? They don't listen, they go ‘but I want it' and then they get it because they're usually paid more in the organisation. Is it the same in Nigeria?
Katherine: I think it's the same thing everywhere.
It's very, very common for businesses to be obsessed with the numbers, as they should because businesses operate to make money. And then we as UX writers, content designers, we're there to actually bridge that gap between the users and the business, just try to overlap it and for it to make sense.
What I've found that really, really helps is to be able to understand some business acumen, understand some business language. And instead of just ‘the user, the user, the user', find a way to speak their language. Find a way to speak how this impacts the bottom line as a whole and most times you gain that buy-in. But yes, there's always that resistance, it happens. You create a strategy, you create copy, someone else goes into there and changes something to something trendy, it's very common everywhere.
Sarah: I am waiting, I am waiting to hear from somebody to say, no, that's not the case. It's just not the case in my country. I'm going to keep going until I find one.
[Both laughing]
All right. That's amazing. If you had a magic wand, what would you use it for?
Katherine: I currently have a program, the UX Content Champ. It's a UX writing program. And I've been thinking a lot about how to impact young people, young girls at the local level. Probably maybe during their summer holidays or something, just find a way to, even if it's just 1 or 2 modules, to introduce them to what digital content is. I haven't found a way around it yet. I probably haven't found the right people to speak to more. That's something that I know would really, really be transformative.
And also for our own work, to impact our own work, I think if localised content can be mainstream, that would be really, really nice. All the wonderful products that we're working on, if they are accessible by everyone, regardless of their location. I mean, that would be really, really amazing.
Sarah: Yeah, that would be amazing. That would be. Let me take you back to that first thing you said about young girls and getting them into it. Is there, in terms of digital education with you, do you think that there is something missing at university level, at school level, or?
Katherine: I've spoken with a few friends abroad and I hear things like courses, being, you know, digital courses, digital education being introduced into the normal school curriculum. And I've also read even masters when I was exploring options for my masters, for instance, you can see in other countries, they have digital options. There's user experience as a pathway in traditional universities now. That's not something we have in Nigeria right now, to the best of my knowledge. That's not something we have in our traditional curriculum. So there's a gap there. I don't know how to influence it at that top, top level, but I think just probably just starting in my own way visiting schools. I don't have the strategy yet, but I know that's something I really, really want to do. Just young girls in, you know, very underrepresented areas.
Because once in a while, when I see people go there to do outreach, you see them trying out the mobile devices or whatever devices, they are really excited. You can see the joy on their face. It's like magic to them. So I really, really want to be able to make an impact beyond them just smiling and experiencing this magic. I kind of want to also tell them that you can actually create this magic. This content you're seeing that you're smiling at, you can actually be on a team that could design this entire experience. I think that would really, really be great. So yeah.
Sarah: This is amazing. I also can't believe you're just sitting there, you're smiling away and you're talking about changing a country. Can we just sit there and reflect on that for a minute? That is such an incredible endeavour. It's such an, yeah, it's amazing. We were, you know, we're gonna send you some more books. I don't know.
Katherine: Thank you!
Sarah: It is an amazing endeavour. Tell me a little bit about this conference that you had then.
Katherine: Yeah, so the conference was actually organised by UX writers Africa. A small group of ladies, 2 ladies that they really, really blew my mind because 1 of them I used to be like, I would say, an indirect mentor to her. She reached out and said she was looking at organising this conference and I was like you have my back, whatever you want. And they all started, it just kept getting bigger and bigger, you know. More support from people like you, Content Design London, Button, and so many other sponsors. And boom, it happened.
[Laughing]
I travelled all the way, I live in the northern part of Nigeria and this conference happened in the western part, so it's quite a mile. So I took a flight all the way down to deliver the keynote speech when I was invited to do that because I was like, this is groundbreaking. It was really, really massive.
So the theme of the conference was ‘beyond words, using content to design experiences'. And we had from the attendees, we had aspiring UX writers and content designers, and also people working in this space. And we also had across the panellists and speakers, we had like a fully fleshed product team. So we had, it was a developer, a researcher and writers as well. It was really, really nice. Shout out to UX Writers Africa. It was really, really amazing.
I think overall, I felt really, really at home for the first time. It felt like I was with like minds. We were nerding over the words and we were really having fun. So I do hope this turns into a yearly thing. And I'm really, really grateful to you guys for all the support you show us here in Africa.
I'm looking forward to, as I mentioned to the founder, I'm really looking forward to, so beyond the conference, it's 1 thing to have a conference. I'm really looking forward to the impact that we make, let people hear and see that there is a movement, there's something going on. And I'm seeing the change already because before I left their city and came back to mine, I met with a couple of product owners and I kept singing in their ears. We had a conference, we are a team, you know, you guys shouldn't look down on us and all that. And just last night here, I think they are organising a no code conference for non-technical folks working in tech. And just last night here, the organiser of that event actually reached out to me with free tickets for UX writers. They were like, ‘hey Kat, so here are tickets, please send to the UX Writers Africa community'. They have free tickets to join. And I'm seeing it already. I love it. Like, I really, really love it and I'm excited.
Sarah: You are such a trailblazer in so many ways.
Katherine: Thank you.
Sarah: So community, hugely important. What does it mean over there?
Katherine: Community is everything, honestly, because when you're locked up in your space, the only persons you're communicating with are online. Sometimes you just need a breath of fresh air. And so there is this co-working space for tech folks and writers as well. And I used to go there way back, way, way early in my career. And that was where my sense of community started.
Even at work, at Toptal, viewing my colleagues as friends, instead of just colleagues. I mean, yesterday we had an amazing workshop that I facilitated. Everyone really, really had fun. It doesn't even feel like working. So that's what community means to me. It's togetherness, it's not competition. It's being able to share together when there are opportunities. You're able to share with people when stuff is going on, you're able to support the best way you can. And yeah, community is togetherness.
Sarah: Yeah, perfect. Okay, so my last question for you is can you think of any kind of idioms that would work in Nigeria but nowhere else?
Katherine: [Laughing] Okay… so we have a certain type of English that is called Pidgin, I think. It's actually called Pidgin and I think I could say some to you right now and tell you the meaning. So we have things like ‘no wahala'. So ‘no wahala' means no problem. It's like a way to show resilience. I think you should look up Nigerian vernacular and Pidgin when you're free. It's really interesting.
[Laughing]
Sarah: Okay, we're gonna do that. We're gonna do that. We're gonna put some links in.
Katherine: Yes, so we have those kinds of slangs. ‘No wahala'…‘Jara'. So ‘jara' means, say you're buying something and then you're telling the person to add more. I think these are things that are totally specific to Nigerians.
I think there are some fintech products right now that are also applying these cultural context in their experience to make it more fun. There are some words, there are some slogans that they use that you understand. So maybe slogans that are related to money. So I would say our vernacular and Pidgin English is very, very peculiar and specific to us.
Sarah: Amazing. Okay. We will have a look at that.
I just wanted to say that you are simply 1 of the most inspirational people I've met.
Katherine: Thank you so much, Sarah. This means a lot.
Sarah: You are taking on a whole country. Who does that?
[Both laughing]
Well, apparently you do. I can see the heart in it. You know, this industry, it can be so mercenary and it can be all about power and glitter and kudos.
Katherine: Yup.
Sarah: And you're not, you're talking about young girls coming into an industry and you're talking about changing everything from a community heart and that is just, that is sustainable. Money and glitter, it's empty. And I just wanted to say hats off to you.
Katherine: It means a lot hearing this from you. Thank you.
Sarah: Thank you very much for coming on the podcast.
Katherine: Thank you so much, Sarah, for having me. This was nice.