Small Business Growth Addicts

Should You DIY or Outsource Your Social Media?

• Amanda Hughes • Episode 28

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Thinking about outsourcing your social media but not sure if you should? This episode is for you.


Amanda Hughes is joined by Hannah Adams, founder of Heyday Digital Agency, to unpack what it really means to hand over your socials to someone else and whether that’s the right move for your small business. Spoiler: Social media management isn’t just for “big” brands.


We chat through:

  • The difference between doing your own social media marketing vs. working with an agency
  • What to look for in a social media manager (green flags + red flags)
  • Why your content might not be landing, and how to fix it
  • The power of community-first marketing
  • How to get over the cringe of showing up on video
  • Reels, reach, brand voice, audience personas… and how it all fits together


Whether you’re:

  • Posting consistently and still not seeing results…
  • Thinking about handing over your social media but don’t know where to start…
  • Or just want to feel a bit less alone in it all…


This episode is jam-packed with down-to-earth insights, honest truths, and practical advice for small business owners who want to show up online in a way that feels good and actually works.







What’s Next?

💌 Want content prompts that actually get clients?
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🔥 Ready to Get Seen & Get Sales with the Ultimate Combo?
Purchase my Amazon no.1 bestseller The Social Media Planner by Amanda Hughes and also get instant access (skip the waitlist) and £10 off your first months membership in my online mentor group Get Seen Get Sales. This is thee ultimate combo for DIY social media content for small business owners.

🎁 Not ready to jump in just yet? Join the waitlist for Get Seen Get Sales to be kept up to date and get a free digital copy of my bestselling Social Media Planner plus access to the video workshop where I show you how to plan a week’s content (for multiple platforms!) in under an hour.

➡️All the details here

🙌 Huge thanks to our sponsor KM Accountancy
If you're after an accountant who genuinely gets small business life, Kirsty is your woman.
→ kmaccountancy.co.uk

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SPEAKER_00:

Hello and welcome to the Growth Addicts Podcast. I'm Amanda Hughes, your host, and I am delighted to be spending the next hour with you. Thank you so much for being here. I escaped the corporate world with not much more than a burning desire to be self-employed. Fast forward 10 years and I'm running not my first, but my second small business and this time around it's with a passion to share all that I know, all that I've learned and all that I'm still learning with fellow small business owners like you. As the title of the show suggests, I am addicted to growing my small business and I know you are too. That growth means different things to different people though and that's why we talk about a whole host of subjects on Growth Addicts, whether it It's a solo episode with just me or with one of my many awesome guests. Between us, we share actionable tips, Instagram strategies, real-life entrepreneurial experiences, and inspiring stories. So grab a pen, a cuppa, a biscuit, obviously, and get ready to grow that small business of yours. This is the Growth Addicts Podcast. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Growth Addicts Podcast. Thank you so much for being here today. Now before we get into meeting our incredible guest today, Hannah of Hay Day Digital Agency, I just want to look at the reviews from last week. We've had a lovely review on Spotify from Alison or Ali Walters who was saying about our episode with Diane Quinn of Quinn Hypnosis that it was such an informative episode. So while so informative and she would love to try and Diane is such a lovely lady which she is so thank you so much for that Ali just a reminder that we absolutely love reading your reviews here I say we it's not just me behind the podcast thinking of our sponsors our incredible editor Abby and also our lovely guests so please if you've enjoyed this episode today do leave a review wherever you're listening whether that's Spotify Apple or anywhere else as we absolutely love to read them and I'm enjoying reading them out on the podcast as well so today as I say we are joined by Hannah of Hayday Digital Agency what a cool business name we're going to get into that today. Now Hayday is a social media agency they cover marketing, social media management, copywriting all sorts of things but you might be thinking Amanda this seems a bit strange because your main part of your business is helping small business owners do their own social media so why on earth do you have a social media management agency on the podcast? Well the reason The reason for that is that one of my absolute values in business is community over competition. Community is incredibly important to me and I hope that that speaks through in everything that I offer and everything that I do in my business. And although I help small business owners grow on social media DIY, which I love to do. I'm well aware that there's small business owners out there who could not think of anything worse and that's okay. It's not for everyone to do your own social media. Some people want and need to outsource it and this podcast is here to help all small business owners no matter what position you're in. So yeah, absolutely buzzing to chat with Hannah today about what a social media management agency can actually offer, how that differs from doing it yourself and if you are out there thinking of outsourcing a completely your social media management, then what should you be looking for? And that's exactly what I'm going to discuss with Hannah today. So let's dive into this episode and I hope it's helpful. KM Accountancy is a proactive and approachable accountant you've been searching for. Both friendly and knowledgeable, Kirstie is dedicated to making your financial experience seamless. Whether you're a business owner in need of strategic monthly support or you just need help with your tax return, Kirstie and her team's tailored approach guarantees smooth sailing towards your financial Head to kmaccountancy.co.uk for more information. Welcome Hannah from Haiti, how are you today? I'm good thank you, thank you so much for having me. What a pleasure, I'm so excited for this conversation because of course I help people, well I help small business owners DIY their own social media but I know that's not for everyone. Some people cannot think of anything worse and they need someone to help so I'm so looking forward to hearing how you guys do that, what it's all about at the other end of things. Yeah definitely it's

SPEAKER_01:

like kind of two sides of the coin really isn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah absolutely but first off It'd be great to just know a bit more about you, about Hay Day. Tell us about you guys.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh gosh, where to even begin? So Hay Day is a digital agency that I launched almost three years ago now after coming off my second maternity leave with my son. So it was something that was kind of noodling around in my head for many, many years, but particularly during the pandemic. I promise that's the only time I will mention the pandemic during this. Don't worry. But I used to kind of freelance and help different people sort of in my life who had been with their marketing sort of giving marketing advice helping them with their strategy and things and it was that that really kind of lit me up I kind of worked in-house for a lot of different places the last job that I had was very very corporate so it was very very different sort of angle of marketing that I was coming at in that kind of sense and then there was kind of the perfect storm of circumstances after coming off maternity leave like I said Lack of flexibility, which is something I think a lot of parents and a lot of mums will relate to. And just kind of took the plunge and launched Hay Day. So we basically do kind of three different things. Our main sort of bag, our main thing is sort of strategy, marketing strategy and making sure you can maximise the impact of all of the channels that you've got because there are so, so many and it can be so overwhelming. overwhelming for people to decide how to market their business strategies are main kind of thing we also do a bit of copywriting and of course we do social media management as well and help small businesses in that kind of way so it is it is mainly small businesses and things that we work with wow

SPEAKER_00:

yes the perfect storm i think that's the first time i've heard the pandemic being described like that but in a lot of ways it was wasn't it for myself as well i mean it was a terrible time obviously and i know people lost their lives i'm not playing it down at all but i was pregnant during all during lockdown the relief first lockdowns and like you say it was like just the perfect storm of circumstances because I got I found out I was pregnant with twins and got really pregnant really quick and so all my events cancelled at the time and whatever so yeah if it's going to happen any time.

SPEAKER_01:

Perfect storm is totally the apt thing to say for it though isn't it because it changed so many people's lives in so many different ways I know it changed my life completely because I just think if the pandemic hadn't happened I don't think I would be here today I think I probably would have stayed at an in-house role and very much felt in that kind of safer bubble, but actually the bubble kind of burst because you just kind of see the way that different organisations were treating people and treating their staff in particular. I've said this before, but the way that people treated their marketing departments in particular was really telling of which ones were actually going to succeed and which ones were going to kind of fall by the wayside. Really? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, because you saw the ones who had chosen to furlough their marketing departments really didn't have very much of a presence anymore they kind of sunk into the background a little bit they'd kind of prioritize different things as as a lot of people had to prioritize different departments and things like that but I think the ones who did prioritize keeping on their marketing department and you know keeping that presence and keeping that focus on nurturing their communities building their communities during that time and sort of linking in with them those are the ones that really kind of thrived at the end of it

SPEAKER_00:

gosh yeah so that was a real eye-opener for you I can imagine

SPEAKER_01:

yeah absolutely

SPEAKER_00:

and you mentioned community there which we're very big on over in this camp and I know that you are too, especially our small business community. They are just an awesome bunch, aren't they? Absolutely. So you notice that during that sort of time in your life where in the employed roles, you've seen how agencies, bigger company where employees they were lacking that sense of community then when it came to dealing with the outcome of the pandemic. And is that now something that you now really drive forward with in your own business? Are you quite passionate about community and in particular a small business community?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, definitely. I think it's sort of a reframing in the way that you think about marketing your business when you sort of put the community at the heart of everything that you do. I mean, when you're kind of thinking about brainstorming content ideas and things like that, it could be really easy to look at your competitors and think, well, actually they're doing this. so maybe I should be doing this or looking at the latest trend and sort of hopping on that and just trying to grow that way which is something that historically people did do everyone kind of followed followed the trends and followed the same kind of patterns but then you get this really odd situation where you're scrolling on social media and everything is the same whereas when you see something that is speaking directly to you that links in with your beliefs your values sort of the problems that you're maybe facing in life the challenges that you might be be kind of facing it really stands out when you see a piece of content that is crafted in that way so that's why we always tell people we're an audience first marketing agency we're placing the audience and the community at the heart of absolutely everything that we do we're sort of not looking very much at competitors and what other people are doing we're definitely trying to carve out a niche and carve out a community that is just for ourselves and just for our clients and I think that's that's kind of the direction that marketing is heading in anyway and I think it just makes it a bit less boring and a more inclusive place as well absolutely

SPEAKER_00:

that's brilliant love it So let's get into the nitty-gritty. Social media. It's quite the place, isn't

SPEAKER_01:

it? I know. I think I've always said this as well. Social media is what you make it. So I get a lot of people when I'm speaking at networking events or I'm even speaking to new clients and they always say the same thing. I hate social media. It's so horrible. Such a negative place. Like I don't want to do it. So that's why like I'm here. I want you to do it. And I always think that social media kind of is what you make it. There are so many vibrant communities and so many niches that you could get involved in. And it's a really exciting place to be actually. So it really is what you make it. It's all about tailoring your feed and tailoring the kind of content that you want to see and you know interacting with with kind of the right thing so I actually like I love opening my Instagram in the morning and like you know everyone's been up to and seeing what you know what all my favorite small businesses are doing and it just feels like a really nice and vibrant place to be whereas I feel like if you are only interacting with things that are are negative or really doom and gloom. That's all you're probably going to see. And yeah, it's going to feel like a really negative space.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, gosh. I mean, I could not have put it better myself, Hannah. Yeah, absolutely. That's how I feel about it as well. I've been using it for so long, particularly Instagram. I really find it to be a community in itself. But that's probably, like you said, because I've curated my feed to be like that. I see things that I want to see. I'm not following anyone's journey that I don't want to see. Why would you? Putting messaging out there, posts out there that are speaking to the people that I want to speak to. so I'm attracting those people so that's good but yeah more often than not I do hear exactly what you said there hate it I don't know what a lot of the time it's because they'll say I don't know what I'm doing on it I'm spending a lot of time creating posts and nothing's coming back you know so there's no strategy behind it I think is half the problem most of the time and it can lead to a lot of small business owners just being completely overwhelmed with it and going through this stage of posting posting posting posting posting stop and then they disappear for like weeks or maybe months because the longer you're away the harder it is to get back into it because that can be what leads to the overwhelmed feeling isn't it and that whole burnt out from it feeling just confusion if you know me by now you'll know that I love social media and I've had great success growing my business there on various platforms and now it's time to share that success with you I've created a mentor group dedicated to helping small business owners just like you get seen and get sales on social media aptly called get seen get sales not only will the group help you grow on socials but it's a whole support system outside of that too with live monthly workshops and things like email marketing creating standout graphics and much more than that so whether you're feeling stuck overwhelmed with socials or just ready to grow your business we have got you check out the show notes for the link and come and join us inside

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely it's that vicious circle of you know well I'm getting I'm doing all these things I'm spending all this time I'm not getting any results I'm not getting any sort of clicks on my website sales through I'm not getting any inquiries and all like I'm just so I'm so done with it and then you put it down and then go away and then yeah it just sort of dies a death and then trying to get it back up again is the hardest it does feel like the hardest thing in the world but if you are constantly creating content putting content out there you're not seeing results then it is time to sort of look at a strategy and look at the way that you're coming at things because Because if you're spending all of your time, all of your energy and all of your focus on creating that content and it's just not resonating then you're not targeting the right people that's not not that's not a normal experience exactly there is definitely a

SPEAKER_00:

disconnect there absolutely and I think as business owners what we need to remember here is we're using social media for marketing to market our business it's free like it's it's an amazing place to be sure you can pay for ads and things but you don't have to you can still reach the right people and not pay a penny and with the right strategy in place where you're actually planning and posting with purpose it doesn't have to take all that time it can actually be quite an enjoyable and profitable process so if we're speaking to the business owner out there who's listening who is feeling like that and feeling like we've just described there I'm always posting on social media I'm not getting anywhere and I just feel like I don't know what I'm doing with it but how does that business owner know if they need some support to sort of do it themselves or if it's time to hand it over to someone else that's the thing I hear from business owners where they're not sure as to whether am I capable of this or do I just need to outsource this

SPEAKER_01:

if you're in that situation where you're feeling a bit overwhelmed you're feeling really burnt out with it you feel like you're doing nothing but creating content have a look at your analytics take a look at what has been resonating what has reached the right people what people have engaged with and interacted with and maybe lean into that a little bit more give that a try lean into that type of content maybe it's where you showed a bit of a behind the scenes of the business maybe lean into that a little bit more if it's something that you're sort of doing in your day-to-day that's the type of people thing that people maybe want to see a bit more of so try and try and maybe incorporate that a bit more and a bit less of the stuff that isn't resonating but if you feel like you've absolutely done all of that you've been through the ringer with your content and you just can't even look at it anymore which is what we hear a lot of people saying as well then yeah it might be it might be time to sort of bring in some expert help and maybe the first step is devising that strategy that's certainly the first step that we always take with clients is if someone's coming to us for social media management we completely go in look at all of their analytics look at what has been performing what hasn't been we devise a strategy for them and that's where it all starts. I really do think that that's the kind of the first step when you're working with any kind of marketing agency or a social media manager is an understanding of everything that has come before because that also helps you get to grip with their brand voice which is a completely unique part of your business it can't be replicated you know we hear a lot about people copying other people's content and like trends are all the same and things like that but actually it's your brand voice that's completely unique so it can never be copied or replicated

SPEAKER_00:

there's lots of people out there doing what we're all doing but it's no one's you yeah and that's a real important thing to get you you think you're in a saturated market but you're not because no one is doing exactly what you do it's not possible so yeah absolutely would agree to lean into that and so you were saying looking at strategy first if someone is looking to get some support or outsource there's so many options out there isn't there like so many you know even even both of us are offering some things of support for social media for small business owners so where does the business owner even begin to look for someone to help what do you think they should be particularly be looking for in a social media agency or manager so I think there's

SPEAKER_01:

kind of three parts to what you should be looking for in terms of social media support. There's obviously the sort of the technical and the expertise side of things. So does the agency and do the people have the relevant experience and the... expertise behind what they're what they're kind of selling the next is kind of results and testimonials most of our sort of inquiries and things come through existing clients and word of mouth and those are the best kind of clients that come through us so looking at their results looking at their testimonials and the things that they're sharing online that would be a great place as well and the third one that I think is really underrated are their kind of soft skills so their communication skills because obviously when you're bringing in either an agency or a social media manager you want them to sort of be a representation of your team and your brand it's such a personable thing and I think fit in that way is so underrated when it comes to a social media manager and you know a marketing agency that's going to come in sort of from internally and be a part of your team values and things are obviously something that we consider quite a lot as well we like to have sort of strong fit between our team and their team as well so I think it's completely underrated and something that not many people will kind of consider, but it's something that we've built all of our strongest client relationships on. It's the fit and the value side of things.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And because you're not in... it becomes a working relationship doesn't it if you have someone helping with your social media it's not you just say okay here's my logins cheerio like you have to communicate you have to talk to each other regularly you have to check in make sure this is all working for everybody yeah so it's it's important absolutely i would say it's probably as underrated that that you have to you know vibe with the person you have to know that you're you want to communicate with this person regularly yeah that's the word that we often use as well but

SPEAKER_01:

i didn't think you know the vibe There are no wrong answers on Growth Addicts, Hannah. We are all about the vibes. I

SPEAKER_00:

love that. Listen, see where the woo-woo meets the work. I

SPEAKER_01:

love

SPEAKER_00:

that. I mean, if you look close enough, you'll see my vision boards on the background here. So we're fine with a bit of woo-woo here. Don't worry about that. But yeah, you've got to vibe with the person you're going to be working with like this. And I guess that comes back to us putting our business out there as well. Anyone putting their business out there, and I talk a lot about knowing who you're trying to attract, knowing your ideal client, your target audience, because you're wanting to also attract people that you want to work with. So it's no different when you're looking for someone to work with. Make sure... you've got to know them

SPEAKER_01:

a little bit. This might be totally off topic but back when I was very first launching Haiti and I was developing our very first branding I'd created sort of the the hashtag logo that we have and we very much lean into the kind of pinks and things and someone had said to me a man had said to me oh your branding's very pink do you not think that's going to put off some men from working with you and I was like not really my primary concern if I'm completely honest I was like if uh you know a man would like to work with us and they want to sort of use our expertise and our strategic thinking then i don't think they're going to be put off by a bit of pink so

SPEAKER_00:

absolutely absolutely yeah i've got a bit of pink in my branding as well and i did wonder if it was sort of feminine colors but i have men working with me and if they're fine with pink then we're all

SPEAKER_01:

good so many different industries and worked with so many different people that i really don't think the pink is the pink is a bit weird with putting

SPEAKER_00:

i love your pink love your pink in fact i can't actually believe i've not asked you this yet hey d cool name Love our name. What does that mean? So

SPEAKER_01:

heyday basically means to live in the time of your greatest prosperity or to thrive. And that... is kind of like the whole vision and ethos behind heyday and that's kind of what we want to help small businesses and small business owners entrepreneurs creatives achieve living their heyday whatever that means for them and it could mean you know we're taking things off of their plate so that they're able to go and work on their kind of bigger dreams and their bigger goals sort of like in terms of the business or freeing up the time and flexibility to do more of the things that they love to do in their personal life so it means to live in the great the time of your greatest prosperity which is what we're helping our clients do every day I love that and it's not a Scottish

SPEAKER_00:

phrase is it is it a worldwide phrase yeah I think it

SPEAKER_01:

is worldwide I didn't actually look up the like the origin of the word I'd heard it I can't remember where I heard it it was somewhere I was on maternity leave and I remember thinking hey day that's a really cool name and that would be a really cool name for a brand and I was like just you know squirreling that away for the future

SPEAKER_00:

yeah oh you've absolutely nailed it it's a brilliant name and it fits your branding and everything just all works so perfectly I love it when we went through our rebrand I was like that's not changing no good for you it's really really cool and I guess actually the name living in that your greatest time of prosperity means is much more than just managing your social media we know social media is an incredible platform for marketing our business but you like to help clients see the sort of deeper impact of their work beyond that, don't you? Could you talk to us a bit about that?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. So my background before Hayden, before my last kind of corporate job was in the third sector. So a lot of the time we spoke about, you know, the impact of the work and sort of getting to the deeper meaning and things like that. And it's sort of like a skill that I've kind of developed and really held on to. So, you know, for example, if you're an interior designer, for example, you might think, well, for my content, I do like before and afters of people's homes and that's that's all I need to do I just need to show you know the social proof of my work and then that's it but actually the deeper meaning there it could be that that client had a really they'd lived through like a really tough time in their home they really needed a refresh it's sort of like the sort of mental physical emotional impact that that space transformation has had on the client it's not just about making a space look aesthetically pretty or aesthetically good it's about changing their lives it's about completely you know going in and sort of elevating their lifestyle changing the way that they interact with their space changing the way that they feel day to day in their space so actually we've done that for a lot of different clients you know we've worked with professional organizers we've worked in kind of agriculture we worked in tech we've worked with artists and designers and clothing designers and things like that so it's seeing the sort of deeper impact so thinking about the the clothing designer that we worked with so she designed children's clothing and it's about so much more than just designing a really nice you know top or a nice pair of leggings for for children or something that's a bit funky it's about the clothing that they're going to be making memories in. It's about the clothing that's for a special birthday party or a special sort of baby shower or a celebration or something like that. So it's thinking about the deeper impact of the work that you're doing and what you're giving back when you're creating this product or this service and what you're actually delivering versus, you know, the kind of surface

SPEAKER_00:

level. Okay, quick pause from our conversation because I'm wondering how you'd feel if I said I could give you a free£50 today. Yep, if you have been thinking about moving your business recently or perhaps you don't have a business banking account then I can highly recommend Monzo and if you're opening an account with them via the link in the show notes you are getting a free£50 for nothing just for joining. Monzo is free to bank with, I bank with them personally and it's so easy to use and also they won the best business banking provider in the UK 2024. So if you don't have a business bank account yet or you'd like to change from where you are just now to free business banking and£50 on your account the linking in the show notes today head over there and get it done that's great isn't it yeah that's that must really change a lot of your clients perspective on how they see their marketing how they view their marketing as a whole

SPEAKER_01:

definitely and I think that thinking about it in a sort of deeper way and really putting yourself in the client's shoes and putting yourself in your audience's shoes it really sort of reinvigorates your passion for what you do and you kind of go actually what I'm doing does hold a lot of meaning and it does have a profound impact on people's lives and it's not sort of you know frivolous or a waste of time or you know something that people aren't going to invest money in because it's so worthwhile god I love that you're really getting mean the feels today Hannah? Oh I'm sorry I didn't mean to make it on a morning.

SPEAKER_00:

The business name and the meaning of that and just what you're explaining there like it's a big deal isn't it? Like you're that interior designer really take someone you know be talking and marketing about this transformation from A to B which is your ideal client to A you want to take them to B but you know someone's really unhappy in their home for whatever reason that might be you know you can make a massive impact there you're not just offering design service to like freshen up the living room you know you're really impacting someone's life in a big way

SPEAKER_01:

yeah exactly it all comes down to the the way that they're living their life and you know there's a lot where we we talk a lot about you know what people are willing to kind of you know spend their money on and things like that and when it comes to sort of the more luxury services and things like you know interior designer professional organizers it's making it a bit more accessible and showing that actually it's a service that people can afford and that people are more willing to sort of invest money in as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, so as part of that, that means then we're not just throwing pictures out there of our work and hoping that that will put it out there and they will come. Then you build it and they will come. We know that that doesn't work. It has to be more than that. It has to be a bit deeper than that. And I talk about a strategy where we put out on social media content to attract new clients, nurture our existing community and convert to booking or buying or signing up or whatever it might be. Would you agree with that? There has to be a sort of a mix of content there. to do all these different things.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. Because you never know who's going to be landing on your page and who's going to be landing on your page for the first time. So if you do only have sort of nurture content out there, then it's given no frame of reference as to who you are, what you do or like the impact of your work. So I think it's important to have those kind of three pillars sort of going at the same time.

SPEAKER_00:

And with attraction content in particular, we can have a bit of fun. And I know you guys, because it's not just you, Heidi, is

SPEAKER_01:

it? No, it's myself and Serena, and we've recently just taken on a paid ad specialist as well. Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

And I know you guys do the occasional fun reel. Yep, we like to lean into the fun, lean into the cringe. Same, yep, yep. And the cringe, this is the thing. So a lot of business owners, you know, they tell me that they cannot, the fear of showing up in camera is just far too much. Like, it just feels so false and so fake, you know, they... They wanted to start their business to bake cakes. They were never intending on having to film themselves. And I totally get that. It's daunting, but it can actually be quite fun and a really good way to help your clients get to know you, which helps with all the things we've just spoken about there, attracting the right clients. How do we help our business owner friends get over the cringe? Sometimes I just like to force them. I'm kidding. You just like to run in with a camera in their

SPEAKER_01:

face. Yeah, all the good blooper content out the way. No, I think the sort of best thing to do is show them just how accessible it is. So a lot of the time what we'll do is if clients don't enjoy filming reels or filming TikTok videos or whatever it is, we sort of show them examples of how it could look so that it doesn't feel as cringe. so that's looking at the kind of b-roll behind the scenes content sort of filming them while they're not looking that kind of thing and then showing them the impact of just what that can do on their socials because obviously reels are always being pushed out to new people and that's kind of one of the one of the kind of main ways that new people are finding you so we always think it's really valuable to have them in a client's strategy when it comes to social so we show them that kind of b-roll content we encourage them to sort of spend a bit of time on the app and have a look through reels that are kind of in their niche so that they can see see just how other people are approaching it and it maybe doesn't feel as scary then we have um gently nudged a lot of our clients slightly outside of their comfort zone when it comes to it comes to creating reels but something that we also like to do is if they are capturing real content a lot of the time they're sort of like oh no i don't i don't want you with me when like i'm capturing real content because they're it's just a bit too much for them so we'll provide them with like a little plan sort of like clip one we'd love if you could capture this clip two clip three and we've got some really cool things back from clients actually where we've been able to edit them together and create a really good piece of content that you know they can then see the value and the impact of it and they're like oh we should do that again and they get really enthusiastic about it so it's kind of it's kind of baby steps into into real territory but it's funny thinking about you know filming and reels and things because you know it's kind of just like a staple of of our content now it's kind of what we do we love we love having fun with it like I'm still recovering from like the last time when you know you know the oh were you waiting for that box to hit me still have a boom still feel like I have a bump from that but I'm gonna get my own back but thinking about reels and things I had never filmed a video piece of content until the pandemic this is the second time I've mentioned the damn pandemic I'm sorry don't worry it's lesson it's inevitable isn't it it's inevitable it's funny because that's the first time I ever created video content because we needed to create content that was sort of accessible that people could see like you know we were kind of talking face to face and given that kind of connection Am I right in thinking Hannah am I right in thinking

SPEAKER_00:

that Instagram TV launched round about that time? Do you know what yeah maybe it did yeah I think. Because I remember still being on forestry at that time and I think it was just early days of my pregnancy and still doing my social media research and thinking I'm gonna have to get on board whatever this IGTV is and trying to film something and I'm sure that was kind of the first time. That

SPEAKER_01:

feels like a blast from the past hearing that. I know like it seems surreal but yeah sort of like everyone was dabbling in in kind of TikTok and everyone was finding sort of like new trends and things to follow and it was a real kind of a moment of connection across the the digital world which was which was really nice and also like helped me uh learn the ropes with uh with TikTok which I am also never off which is terrible yeah yeah first time I'd ever filmed video content and kind of pushed myself out my comfort zone in that way because we had we had so much to do in terms of you know fundraising online and things like that then as well you know with the we used to host like virtual quizzes and things like that which were really really really popular and sort of being on camera for that so it's kind of like it was kind of trial by fire for me so I like to kind of gently nudge clients out of their comfort zone rather than saying you will film this video or things will not go well

SPEAKER_00:

yeah absolutely and you can start really baby steps by like filming your hands as you're packing an order or making things can't you or even just typing at your desk and then perhaps slowly move up the body do you see the face we can definitely start at hands yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah it is just baby steps though isn't it when someone's not comfortable or used to being on camera particularly when it's easy for us to say because it's obviously a part of our job but you know it's kind of coming from a place of understanding that okay not every not everybody does this for a living oh too

SPEAKER_00:

i totally i totally get it i totally get it but yeah if you are willing to nudge yourself out your comfort area and just try it you probably will enjoy it and you'll enjoy the impact that it has in your social media and then before you know it just becomes it's like in nature you're showing up in your jammies just grabbing your phone like morning your jammies yep here's like a bird nest laughing or is that just me because that is a regular thing for me it would never come there is no perfect moment for me with young kids and whatever I'd imagine you're the same yeah yeah no

SPEAKER_01:

definitely post before perfection or something like well it should be yeah you can't strive for kind of perfection when it comes to otherwise you'll never post anything

SPEAKER_00:

no you never do anything wouldn't you know there is no perfect time the perfect time is when you want to do it just do it yeah exactly absolutely and so I think what we're really touched on there is that social media is so much more it can be so much more than just posting and praying putting images of your work out there and just hoping that that means someone's going to buy it really is about building a community getting yourself out there helping people especially if you're only online helping people get to know you but I think even now with brick and mortar stores there's been a few stores have popped up on my Facebook and Instagram and I'll definitely have a wee nosy and from what I see on social media could make me excited to go and visit you know so that this is not just exclusive to online businesses but I think if your business is only online, then you really do have to build the community there. How do we start to build a community and not just get followers? Because that's what a lot of people are just focused on, isn't it? They just want follower numbers. Yeah, exactly. But it's more than that. It's that the... You would rather have 100 engaged followers than 1,000 non-engaged, wouldn't you? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

it's that conversation we have time and time again with clients when they've got sort of that kind of vanity metric figure in mind for, you know, I want to reach, you know, 10,000 followers or, you know, 20,000 or something like that when actually... And my first question is always just, why? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because they obviously, there's obviously a kind of correlation with the numbers where it's like, well, more people, more sales, but actually it's better to have you know a handful of really engaged people and I'm sure you must say this all the time like you know it's better to have kind of a handful of really engaged people who believe in your brand and who will buy from you time and time again when you have a new launch as opposed to a lot of people who just kind of scroll on by your content don't even interact they followed you maybe based on one post that sort of resonated with them and then never sort of see you again So I think the most important thing, and I'm going to sound like a broken record by the end of this, but it's all about coming back to those ideal audience sets and your ideal... client one of my favorite things is developing audience personas and we devise like really like in-depth audience personas when it comes to building strategy for people so you know it's like looking at you know what are they called what is their job like how do they like spend their time what kind of content do you think is going to resonate with them and sorry hannah audience persona just another phrase for ideal client avatar that kind of thing yeah it's just building that picture in your head as to who exactly is this piece of content speaking to

SPEAKER_00:

because so many people skip this work this is the work guys but the rest of it is going to be really

SPEAKER_01:

hard and it doesn't have to be sort of stems it goes through everything goes through absolutely everything that you're doing you know we see a lot of agencies who call themselves you know a kind of creative agency or sort of like a content agency or things like that and it's built around like these kind of really practical elements but we take it a step further and that's why we call ourselves an audience first marketing agency because it's all about the audience that is where we start from we of course look at everything that's come before all of the all of the content that you've put out there that's resonated if you're sort of a long-standing business and you've been doing this for a while but It's all about the audience and how you move forward and sort of create community in that way with them, looking at exactly what their challenges are, what solutions you're providing that will meet their sort of needs, their sort of like their physical, emotional sort of lifestyle needs as well. So it's everything, everything. And

SPEAKER_00:

also as part of that, making sure that you're on the platforms where they are, like don't just jump on TikTok because that's what everyone's saying you should be. You only need to be where your ideal clients are.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I've had a few clients who've said, oh, well, you know my niece said I should be on TikTok and it's like your niece is not your ideal client though like your niece is never going to buy from you so

SPEAKER_00:

and most of the time the members that join my social media mentor group most of the time the first place they need to start is I've got an ebook all about ideal client and that's generally nine times out of ten the first place they have to start because that's the whole disconnect is that you're just not sure who you're speaking to and it gets to become so much easier once you figure that out like we promise guys we're not making this up don't skip this work and I actually find revisiting ideal client quite a funny exercise as well like to really get to know this person that you want to work with so that you can proper

SPEAKER_01:

call them in definitely because it's not kind of a one and done it's kind of an ongoing thing because you know as as the kind of world changes and as sort of lifestyles change and needs change and things like that your ideal client could change and evolve over time as well especially if your business is going through a period of of change as well there's that to consider as well

SPEAKER_00:

yep if you're the queen of pivoting like me then yeah you have to do it quite often but if not then I guess like I would say maybe every six months at least yeah yeah would you think yeah have a peek at it and make sure it's up to date

SPEAKER_01:

yeah update it every six months kind of thing

SPEAKER_00:

From precise bookkeeping to savvy tax strategies, KM Accountancy have all your needs covered. Say goodbye to financial headaches and hello to peace of mind with Kirsty by your side. Contact KM Accountancy and let Kirsty lead you to financial success. Head to kmaccountancy.co.uk for more information. And then you really, once you get into your flow with your social media or you're working with an agency and you've done the ideal client work, that problem of putting content out there that's just getting no engagement, no shares, no nothing, no conversion, it just stops because you're speaking to the right person. If you can really get into the conversation in their head, you're going to be sharing stuff that's relatable, stuff that they want to hear, stuff that they want to see, stuff that they want to book or buy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. It's going to relate and it's going to resonate and then...

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

it all goes from

SPEAKER_00:

there. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. If someone's trying to get into our ideal client's head now, Hannah, what is our listeners thinking at this point? Thinking... Maybe I do need to look at getting some support here. I guess we spoke about what to do first is get a good look at your socials for yourself. Every social media platform's got an analytics or dashboard area. They're all pretty similar. Have a good look at your content. Is absolutely nothing landing well or is there a few you can highlight and sort of learn from? Is that where we would say to start before, you know, if you listen to all this thinking, right, okay, I have not done any of that. So no wonder my content's not landing properly. Is that the sort of first place to start? Is look at what you are posting and look at your ideal client

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah I would say so I would say if you've been sort of posting loads of content and maybe like one or two things have been resonating then I would say you can lean into that and sort of really build a persona based on you know, what has been resonating and what are the messages and what are the types of content that people have been enjoying seeing. And then sort of go back and do that kind of work, looking at your ideal client, just thinking about your business, your services, because I mean, you could have, you don't necessarily just have to have one ideal client, you could have, you know, two or three ideal clients that you're sort of targeting with different messages. So like bringing it back to kind of the sort of interior design angle you're looking at families you're looking at sort of individuals people with their first homes are maybe going to be your three sort of ideal clients and they're all going to be looking at different types of content because obviously for like a family you're going to be looking at content that sort of leans into showing that you understand the challenges that are going to come with designing a space for a family and sort of building in like storage solutions as they grow and as the family changes of course and if you're looking at sort of like first-time buyers for example example you're looking at ways that they can sort of bring their personality alive in the space because it's a really exciting time for them and it's maybe the first time that they've ever been able to to kind of put their stamp on their space renting for a long period of time or maybe living with family so it's sort of looking at those three sort of sets and maybe devising sort of different types of content that you think will resonate with them and the types of content that has have been resonating they will likely fit into one of your client personas. Great okay I was

SPEAKER_00:

thinking earlier on I actually meant to ask this earlier And if you are looking for a social media agency, what are the sort of misconceptions or myths that you hear out there about social media agencies that you can maybe bust for us today?

SPEAKER_01:

I would say that the biggest one that's been a bit more of a barrier for small businesses in particular is thinking that maybe social media support and social media agencies in particular are only for big businesses and that it's something that's completely... unattainable not kind of in my budget or i'm not kind of there yet and there is a wee bit i think of imposter syndrome around that as well because it's kind of like oh well you know i'm not big enough to outsource help but actually regardless of the stage of the business that you're at if there's a barrier in your way like if you're spending all of your time on social media management and social media content creation and things you're not getting anywhere but you're also then having to neglect other areas of your business then it is time to sort of look at look at support that you can bring in even if it's support and just building that initial strategy and things but I would say the biggest misconception is probably that it is only for big business and it's definitely not the case anymore I mean that's one of the main reasons that I wanted to even launch Hay Day in the first place is because I did see that There are a lot of like the kind of big agencies out there that are doing sort of like the big sort of national campaigns and things. And it does look kind of unattainable for smaller business. But I'd worked with so many small businesses and the impact that it can have on the way that they run their business and the way that they run their lives can be so tremendous that I was like, I just need to do more of that, please. It's such a lovely feeling when you know that you've had a direct impact on helping someone either free up time, flexibility. or just taking something super stressful off their plate. Absolutely. Honestly,

SPEAKER_00:

we're just such in the same wavelength here. Just that you're more helping the client actually understand you're doing more for them I guess you're doing for them because I'm helping them do it themselves but there's plenty of business owners in both camps that need need that help on either side isn't there but yeah our train of thought is just very very similar because it's an amazing feeling when you can really take someone from A to B when they've been really really struggling and then all of a sudden they're like oh I showed up on a reel today like I'm so proud of myself and you know what I got phone inquiries from it fantastic like it's an amazing transformation yeah you know I've

SPEAKER_01:

worked in sort of bigger businesses before and you know it's it's very much about me so it's It was kind of a thankless job. But when you're actually working with someone one-on-one and you can see that impact, it's so kind of affirming that you're doing the right thing in your life. Really

SPEAKER_00:

helping business owners get their dream out there. They've dreamed about this business and you're helping them make that dream become a reality. So before we just have a bit of fun and wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to talk to us about that we've not covered?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, something that we haven't covered is looking at sort of like green flags and red flags when it comes to a client and sort of social media manager relationships. One of the things that I would say is if you're looking for a social media manager or if you're looking for a marketing agency for support online, green flag for me would be that they are super inquisitive about you super inquisitive about your business and they have a period of learning built into whatever it is they're offering you so they're getting to grips with you your brand voice your audience your content the analytics and everything that's come before there's been a few times we've had people who think when you work with a social media manager it's like oh well you sign on with me at the start of the week and then you tomorrow you'll be posting content when actually there is a period of learning that you need to have that's absolutely fundamental to getting it right for your social media audiences. So I would say an absolute red flag would be, yeah, I can post for you tomorrow. I'll just bang this out like really quickly. No, like, let's not do that. How could you possibly do that? Yeah, exactly. So I would say that sort of like the green flag would be, They've got a period of learning because they are, like I say, representing you and your brand.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, I love that. Thank you so much. That's a biggie. I'm glad we covered that. Absolutely, definitely. Okay, a couple of quickfire questions if you're up for it, Hannah. Instagram or TikTok? It's hardly quickfire if I just gasp. just so you just hit the

SPEAKER_01:

deck oh no what happened oh no it changes gotta choose one it changes day to day but I would say Instagram today yeah

SPEAKER_00:

Instagram today yeah I get it I get it what's the biggest biggest cringy thing you've done for your business that's actually worked

SPEAKER_01:

well the cringiest thing that we've done that's worked was actually that box throwing video you know like what were you waiting for that box to hit me it was both painful and cringe but we've got messages of sympathy we got you know quite a lot of like views and things from it and also we got a couple of inquiries which was really nice

SPEAKER_00:

to see awesome well you send us the link to that reel and I'll pop it in the show notes so everyone can have a look absolutely yeah I don't feel any shame around it so I mean if you're happy to get hit by a box a flying box on camera, social media you're good to go after that aren't you? I

SPEAKER_01:

have a few ideas saved

SPEAKER_00:

on how to get Serena back so watch

SPEAKER_01:

this

SPEAKER_00:

space And what's something you used to believe about social media that you've totally changed your mind on?

SPEAKER_01:

In the last five years, I would say before, I would say that it was quite a lonely place, you know, because we really leaned into kind of, you know, five years ago, I would say social media was all about the kind of the aesthetics and it was kind of like we were a rise of influencers and things like that. And it was all how your grid looked. Yeah, how your grid looked. And the little box is like a sort of check work, wasn't it? Yeah, so actually it's less of a belief I used to have rather than like, it's just the platform has changed so much. much and it feels like a much nicer space it feels like it is built more around community and things like that now and sort of you know you see amazing communities pop up on Instagram and TikTok in particular all the time so yeah

SPEAKER_00:

thank you for your answer that was fun so where can we find you Hannah of Hay Day? Where are you? Are you everywhere?

SPEAKER_01:

No, that would be irresponsible if we were everywhere and I would not be taking my own advice. You can always find us on Instagram at heydaydigitalagency. You can find me on LinkedIn again at heydaydigitalagency. And we just had a shiny new website developed this year, which we are very, very proud of. So we would definitely encourage you to go and check that out. So it's www.heydaydigitalagency.co.uk.

SPEAKER_00:

Love that. And I'll put all the links to those in the show notes. So just scroll down, guys, and you can find where you can click a click to go and find Hannah and her team. So yeah, I think we've covered loads there. That's been a fantastic conversation. And how nice to just have a really light, positive conversation about social media. Like, how refreshing is that?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, definitely. It can be so easy to be sucked into the kind of the doom and gloom that we sometimes see. But no, I do think generally it's a very positive space if you curate enough.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely. And I think the main things I've taken away from that conversation is that it's what you make of it. It's a fantastic, free experience. very powerful marketing tool for your business like you can be well look at me I'm literally in my spare room right now and this podcast is listened to all over the world and I promote it primarily on social media without that without that in between people wouldn't be finding it the same you know so it's very very powerful and you can do it from your pajamas as well which is great

SPEAKER_01:

not that you're doing that right now

SPEAKER_00:

um no i may have some comfortable bottoms on here like we only i'd like basically what i've got on it below the waist here is just a slight upgrade from pajamas that's okay absolutely and knowing your ideal client your target audience who you want to speak to is imperative and really having to think about things if you're thinking you might need support about what sort of support you need, whether you're wanting some done for you or some DIY, have a good look at things. And it can be fun. It doesn't have to be this dark, scary place. And you know, we never even touched about algorithms, which is the word everyone's terrified of, isn't it? Yeah, we hear it a lot. Like these platforms want you to stay on them for as long as possible. They want other people to stay on them for as long as possible. The algorithm is there as a matchmaker between you and your ideal client. But, you know, like any computer system, it's just as good as the information you give it. Yeah. What's your thoughts on that? Just before we wrap up.

SPEAKER_01:

I think you've covered that perfectly. I love that phrase. It's a matchmaker between, you know, you and your ideal client. Like, I'm going to use that. I'm definitely going to use that. Absolutely. When I'm having this conversation, yeah, we always...

SPEAKER_00:

Like, why would they not want to match you with your ideal client? If they don't do that, their platform will fail. Which is the opposite of their business model.

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's important to know that it's not out to get you. it's not sort of you know this really evil entity that's trying to prevent you from reaching the right people because ultimately they they do want you to stay on as a as a user like they don't want you to deactivate your account they want as many users as possible active on their platform so it's

SPEAKER_00:

in their best interest and the more people that find your content the more people it brings onto the platform and that's what they want yeah so yeah we'll just wrap up on that don't be scared of the algorithms there's actually more than one but we'll not go into that i don't want to deeply terrify any one but yes it's a matchmaker yeah thank you so much for your time Hannah I've honestly truly enjoyed that conversation it was just so like I say so nice yeah to have a positive conversation about social media so yeah I'll get all your links in the show notes go and find Hannah just go and find her anywhere whether you're looking for her support or not because her account's really fun to follow as you'll see from this reel that we're sharing about the box incident yeah and if you've got any questions I'm sure Hannah would be more than happy to answer them yeah

SPEAKER_01:

absolutely thank you so much for having me it's been a lovely a lovely way to spend a morning

SPEAKER_00:

and also your first podcast

SPEAKER_01:

my first ever podcast I know maybe I've got the bug now maybe you'll never you'll never hear the end of me now

SPEAKER_00:

absolutely well I hope so I hope so because it's been lovely okay well enjoy the rest of your day Hannah take care thank you so much for joining us today for another episode of the growth addicts podcast I Until next time.