Breaking Free from Hustle Culture: How Women in Business Can Work Less & Live More with Jo Hooper

Are you tired of hustling 24/7, chasing “success” while feeling exhausted, undervalued, and stuck?

In this powerful episode of Small Business Growth Addicts, I’m joined by Jo Hooper — founder of Get Wildly Free — to unpack how hustle culture is rooted in patriarchy and capitalism, and why so many women in business end up becoming their own worst bosses.

Jo shares her journey from two corporate breakdowns to building a business that prioritises freedom, joy, and living life now.

We dive into:

• How hustle culture keeps women small, burnt out, and broke
• The subtle ways entrepreneurs recreate toxic corporate dynamics in their own businesses
• Practical steps to put yourself first and reclaim your time, energy, and confidence
• Why success doesn’t have to mean sacrifice, and how you can build a business that feels as good as it looks

Special thanks to our sponsor

This episode is sponsored by Diane at Quinn Hypnosis.
Diane helps small business owners reduce anxiety, overcome overwhelm, and find more balance through her Better Balance, Better You programme. Whether you’re looking for group support or personalised 1:1 sessions, Diane tailors her approach to your needs so you can feel calmer, more confident, and more in control.

👉 Connect with Diane on Instagram → @quinnhypnosis

Connect with Jo Hooper

👉 Grab her free Me First Diary Reset: Download here

👉 Watch The Sht List* on Instagram: Click here

If you’re a small business owner ready to ditch the hustle and create a business that supports your life (not the other way around), this episode is for you.

Don’t forget to follow and subscribe for more real conversations on building a business that lasts.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Hi, hello, welcome. I'm Amanda Hughes, your host of Small Business Growth Addicts. I escaped the corporate world after 12 months of a side hustle which turned into my full-time income. Fast forward 10 years and I'm running not my first but my second small business and this time around it's with a passion to share all that I know, all that I've learned and all that I'm still learning with fellow small business owners. As the title of the show suggests, I am addicted to growing my business and I know you are too. Growth means different things to different people though and that That's why we talk about a whole host of subjects on Growth Addicts, whether that's in a solo episode, just me, or with one of my many awesome guests. Between us, we share advice, tips and real-life entrepreneurial experience. So grab a pen, a cuppa and a biscuit, obviously, and get ready to grow that small business of yours. This is Small Business Growth Addicts. Hello and welcome to Small Business Growth Addicts. No, your ears did not deceive you. We have had a slight change of name. So up until now, the podcast has been the Growth Addicts podcast. And I love the Growth Addicts part of it because myself, like many of you, are addicted to growing our small business. We can't help ourselves, can we? And so I definitely wanted to keep that name in. But purely for SEO purposes, search engine optimization, you know, I don't gatekeep here. I'm all for sharing what's going on behind the scenes, what's working and what's not. Purely for SEO purposes, search engine optimization. for SEO purposes I wanted to add in small business now the podcast is doing amazingly well it's been found by small business owners worldwide but I wanted to make it even easier to find us because that's what we do this for to make sure as many small business owners can listen and tune in as possible so we've slightly tweaked the name for season four we're trying it on along with a few other things small business growth addicts so welcome so yes as I say we're trying on a few different things in season four you may already know that this is the first of our new weekly episodes how exciting is this we've been working so hard behind the scenes to get our weekly show up and running and today 1st of September 2025 is the first of those weekly shows so like I say slight tweak to the name slightly new name and lots of other new things we're trying here so we've got new equipment behind the scenes we've got new sponsors for the show new guests new artwork yeah it's all been happening all been happening behind the scenes and I'm so excited excited that the first episode is finally getting out there. Now what we also have for season four is a whole lineup of new guests and we have one of them joining us today. I'm joined today by our first guest of season four who is Jo Hooper. Her business is Get Wildly Free. What an incredible business name and so appropriate for what Jo does. So Jo, her mission is to stop ambitious women from lowballing their lives for their work and really live in the now. She wants to help particularly female entrepreneurs chuck away any patriarchal capitalist and ableist BS and using her own words that keeps a lot of female business owners small, nurturing and knackered. Jo wants to help female business owners and build a life and a business that puts you first. Now Jo herself lost her dad at 16 and had a breakdown, two breakdowns actually at 30, 30 years old so she knows first hand that life really isn't is for the living and not for working she does also appreciate that we need to work to live but we can we can throw away this mindset that makes us think we have to be busy all the time and we have to hustle to make it work especially in self-employment so she's set her business her own business up she's speaking from experience right from the beginning of her business in 2019 she set up to allow her to live the wild free travel filled books and sewing filled life that she wants and and today she's going to talk to us about her experience, her points of view and also give us some advice as to how we can do this too. So without further ado, let's dive in. This episode is sponsored by Diane at Quinn Hypnosis. Diane helps small business owners just like us get rid of anxiety, reduce overwhelm and feel more balanced overall. Diane offers a better balance, better you programme that's tailored to your individual needs. Whether that's group sessions or one-to-one, just contact Diane on at Quinn Hypnosis for a free consultation. Morning Jo,

SPEAKER_00: 4:28

welcome. Tell us

SPEAKER_01: 4:28

where

SPEAKER_00: 4:29

you're joining us from. I'm actually about to move to just outside Cardiff on the coast but I also lived in Edinburgh for a few years and I lived in London for 10 years before that so I've moved around all over the place.

SPEAKER_01: 4:41

That is all very different cities, I mean there'll be similarities between Edinburgh and London right enough, very big, very busy but yeah from moving from Edinburgh to London to a rural village in Wales must have been quite the contrast.

SPEAKER_00: 4:53

Yes, it's not even a village, we don't even live in a village, we just live in house in surrounded by countryside basically but yeah my one of my closest friends lost her mum a couple of years ago um my friend lives abroad and so she needed someone to come and look after the house and the animals and the land so yeah we moved from a flat in the center of Edinburgh to a house in the middle of nowhere

SPEAKER_01: 5:15

wow oh well sorry to hear about your friend's mum but that was nice that you could step in and support at a time like that gosh that must have been difficult so yeah so aside from moving around you have got some other other super interesting experiences to share with us today some highs some lows and I've been really looking forward to getting into this I can't think of a better way to kick off the new season of the podcast than speaking to you Jo so thank you for being with us today so yes you do have a very powerful story and like I say some highs and some lows two full breakdowns while working in corporate that's then led you to be building a life and a business that prioritizes life first Is that a good description?

SPEAKER_00: 5:58

Absolutely. But yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 5:59

it would be good to hear you sharing a little bit about that time in your life, those breakdowns, that turning point that led you now to be creating the business that you've got today.

SPEAKER_00: 6:09

That's such a good phrase, actually, turning point. It was literally like a total about face turning point. That phrase really could not be closer to the truth. It was literally an about face for me. So I'd spent 10 years in communications, climbing the ladder, moving around, getting promoted with this really clear goal of wanting to be a head of comms by the time I was 30 which I reached but by the time I was 31 I'd had two breakdowns like total mental health crises and been signed off work for about six months and just realized that I couldn't continue to exist and work and live the way I had been while maintaining some positive mental health. The company was going going through some changes and I basically asked them to make me redundant and then set up my own business and that was six years ago six and a half years ago

SPEAKER_01: 7:05

wow gosh that is that's a lot to have been through and then you asked for redundancy as well god that must have been a big moment as well how did that

SPEAKER_00: 7:14

feel

SPEAKER_01: 7:14

it was

SPEAKER_00: 7:14

interesting I think while I was off while I've signed off I'd realized that basically the organization was very well intentioned and a lot of organizations are they want to support their people's mental health but they just didn't know how and like a lot of things that were going on, again, while well-intentioned, were really not helpful to me in my recovery. And while it's no employer's duty to help their people recover from their mental health, that's each our individual responsibility, but it is an employer's duty to make reasonable adjustments that allow people to stay healthy while working. And so I realized that there was this gap in the market for helping employers support their people. And Thank you so much. they're working

SPEAKER_01: 8:28

love that I love that because I certainly know of small business owners who have left the corporate world to do their own thing and now they're busier and more stressed than ever yeah and that was never the plan of course that was never the plan and people leave corporate jobs or just you know regular employed roles to become self-employed and run their own business for various reasons but I don't think it's ever to become more stressed yeah you know I've never heard that as a reason No. It's not always because they're looking for an easy route either. And I think it's important that we talk about that too, that running your own business is not easy and it's not free of challenges. And it can include long hours as well at times, you know, because you're juggling a lot of things a lot of the time. But yeah, we haven't intended to jump from the frying pan into the fire. And I know that you talk a lot about working with female founders and female business owners, but also you talk a lot about the hustle culture being fueled by patriarchy and capitalism systems and so for those of us who haven't thought about it in that way before could you explain what that actually looks like day to day for women in business in particular?

SPEAKER_00: 9:35

Yeah definitely and it's interesting what you said about you know it's not easy running your own business it's not like you can sit on your bum doing nothing but part of kind of I think capitalism's indoctrination of us is that for things to be easy is wrong or for things to be easy is bad or naughty or shameful And the capitalist system relies on us seeing productivity as the most important thing and the most valuable thing about us. your productivity is the most important thing about you. And if you're not productive, then you're not of value. And so I think it's really easy for us to fall into that trap when we run our own businesses of thinking, well, if I'm not working, then I can't be earning. Or if I'm not working, then I'm not doing it good enough. Or if it's not really hard, I'm not fulfilling my potential. It can be easier. And it's not wrong to want to make work easy. It's not wrong to want to work less and live more. But to be able to do that we have to like wake up to the fact that this is maybe not a belief that we agree with and something that we get to choose differently from in our own businesses

SPEAKER_01: 11:06

if you know me by now you'll know that i love social media it's how i've grown my businesses and now i want to help you do the same that's why i created get seen get sales my mentor group for small business owners who want to get seen online and actually attract followers that convert to customers inside you'll get weekly content prompts live workshops and and support on everything you need to grow confidently on social media if you're feeling stuck overwhelmed or just ready to do things differently I've got you head to smallbusinessgrowthaddicts.com to join us Oh, that's so interesting. And I can't deny that that lifts the flag for me, you know, because there are times I've been thinking, oh, wait a minute, I don't have much to do today. Have I missed something? Yeah. That's my first thought. Not that, okay, I'm on top of things and I've not got much to do today because, you know, I really knocked out the park yesterday. My first thought is often like, oh my gosh, I bet I've missed something. Yeah. And then, you know, trying to take a day off that doesn't look like a day off

SPEAKER_00: 12:06

at all. Yes. I just shared some content this morning about like, if you fridays off start with a quick email check and you know popping into slack in the afternoon and sharing a few stories for visibility then that isn't really a friday off but what i find really interesting about what you said there is like Your thought is, have I missed something? And the kind of counter to that thought is, oh no, I just had a really stellar day yesterday. Because it's interesting to me that there isn't a thought coming into your head that's like, but it's okay for me to have a quiet day. Like nothing's going to fall apart if I have a quiet day. And this idea that we can't have a quiet day, that if we do have a quiet day that something's wrong, that the business will fall over is kind of what keeps us in this like capitalist grind. The whole like patriarchy sideswipe as well. just like adds to it and kind of gives it an even bigger snowball effect. Because, you know, we, again, as we live in a capitalist society, we live in a patriarchal society, you know, men occupy most positions of power. There are more men called Steve in the FTSE 500 CEO positions than there are women. And I know it just makes you want to vom, doesn't it, bloody Steve. But really, how I see and how I see in many of my clients, patriarchy kind of infiltrating our businesses is, we feel afraid to say no or we feel afraid to set boundaries or we feel afraid to not please others because as women over millennia we've had to be pleasing and pliant and kind and nurturing to survive although that need for safety is less acute now than it has been in previous generations like it still affects our behavior in the way that we think about our businesses and we worry that if we set a boundary that someone's going to think we're a bitch or that if we raise our prices that people are going to think we're greedy and so these two things together of like must keep working must work all the time but can't charge too much can't say no must do exactly what the client wants just like works us up into this like exhausted frenzy

SPEAKER_01: 14:13

wow yep and then how do you see that actually playing out you know in small business owners if you could talk about that how you see it playing out in small business owners

SPEAKER_00: 14:21

so many different ways but like the way over the years that I've developed of tackling this or like helping people to tackle it for themselves I call it the me first method just have you know an easy way of it tripping off the tongue but it's basically figuring out how to put yourself first in your business and I think about that in three ways in beliefs in decisions and actions so I often see people saying oh I can't charge that much they won't think I'm worth it or I can't charge that much they'll think I'm greedy or I can't get them to that session time because they'll think I'm flaky. Or I'll just squeeze them in because they really need me to see them. And all of these thoughts, decisions and actions are basically putting others before ourselves. They're basically parroting those beliefs that we get from patriarchy and from capitalism and from ableism and from white supremacism and all the other systems of oppression that have become part of the fabric of the world that we live in. But yeah, I see it playing out in people essentially not feeling able to be confident or feel powerful or feel empowered and therefore taking decisions and taking actions from those places rather than from the place of it's okay for me to have a Friday off I am allowed to charge what I want and need to charge to make my business and my life sustainable I can say no because that protects my life like all of these kind of behaviors and beliefs that we have are really I think come down to the patriarchal belief that you must put others before yourself and the capitalist idea that we can't be of value unless we're working.

SPEAKER_01: 15:59

Gosh, and of course, when that comes to business, then if we're not charging enough, then we're not running a decent profit, the profit that we need or want to run our businesses at. If we're putting others' needs to be seen at certain times and whatever before our own, that can cause problems in families. If you're then that knock-on effect, you're moving things around with kids or whatnot to accommodate that or even just for yourself.

SPEAKER_00: 16:24

yeah

SPEAKER_01: 16:25

that that time just didn't suit you for whatever reason but you're like you say you're not putting yourself first you're putting the needs of clients first

SPEAKER_00: 16:31

and it's like death by a thousand cuts like every time you say oh I can squeeze you in or every time you say sure no problem when someone misses a deadline or every time you say oh that's fine even though it's not fine you're telling yourself that you don't matter and you're telling yourself that they're more important than you and you're chipping away at your own sense of self-worth it's just not a way to live a life we're here for a short time like not a long time and so we need to enjoy it as best as we can and

SPEAKER_01: 17:02

these are just all these sort of subtle ways that we end up becoming our own worst bosses yeah you know when you've potentially left another employed role to work for yourself and you've potentially then become a worse boss than you might have had before and then these all sorts of beliefs keep us stuck and keep us small in our

SPEAKER_00: 17:23

business don't they you know what you say around you know if we don't charge enough then we're not operating at a good enough profit but equally like what adds to that I believe anyway and part of my like me first method is you start with your capacity like how much do you actually want to work how much would you love to earn and then and how many clients can you work with or projects can you work on within that time and therefore kind of you can get your base unit pricing that way because if you don't start with your capacity and yourself then you're always going to be overworking to earn the money that you want to make and you're going to be constantly in this cycle of like I'm working loads but I'm not making the money I want because you haven't started with how much you want to work and so if we want businesses that not just pay our bills but you know pay us and help us to live a lovely life we've got to charge more set boundaries be clear about what we will and won't do who we will and won't work with stop subjugating ourselves to others at every possible turn

SPEAKER_01: 18:18

and do you think this affects women who work in an employed role just as much as female small business owners or have you seen a difference?

SPEAKER_00: 18:28

I definitely think it affects women just as much in the workplace and I have and still do work with employed people as well but it affects them in different ways so it affects how they feel they can can or need to communicate in the workplace both around the day-to-day and around negotiating salaries or pay rises or job specs but the difference I think is when you're employed by yourself when you run your own business, you get to make all the decisions. You have all the power, all the choice, and you don't have that in an employed role. It's devastating to me when people who are self-employed don't make decisions for themselves because they're in this incredibly, and I and you and all of us who run our own businesses are in this incredibly privileged position where we can choose what's right for us. And yet so many people consistently don't because they don't feel like they can.

SPEAKER_01: 19:23

Absolutely. Go and of course from someone who's experienced breakdown is it under the burnout umbrella what you went through

SPEAKER_00: 19:31

well I would say it's like a few steps past burnout to be honest so I had like a combination of anxiety and depression and it affects your brain's ability to function so I couldn't read I couldn't cognitively my brain wasn't working like I couldn't make decisions I couldn't read I couldn't like write emails I couldn't function and then physically it affects the way that my body worked. So I had digestion problems. I had migraines. I couldn't brush my teeth because I felt so sick with anxiety. I feel like burnout, I think of it like this sort of dip like this and burnout sort of here and break down at the bottom of the well. And then you have to like claw yourself back up. But yeah, it basically just made me unable to function and made me really physically unwell as well. And yeah, I don't feel like anyone should have to reach that depth of the well. to be able to get to the point that I got to which is to say enough I don't want to feel like this anymore I will do what I need to do and what I want to do because the alternative is that and that's not what I want.

SPEAKER_01: 20:37

Absolutely and what sort of warning signs should people be looking out for as you say we want to avoid getting to that depth of the well so what sort of things for anyone listening should we be watching out for?

SPEAKER_00: 20:49

Some of the first warning signs are well it's this feeling of constantly changing your tail and feeling like you're not on top of things and you know the reality is we're never going to be on top of things the list literally never ends that is the stuff of life is the never-ending list but it's more than having the list it's the feelings that come with the list it's the feelings of fear of worry of anxiety of something that I see building a lot in clients is resentment that you know they're working really hard and it's not feeling like it's working for them or that clients are taking up loads of their time when they don't want them to be or you start to resent the thing that you've built and then things like classic kind of physical signs of deteriorating mental health are trouble sleeping random aches and pains digestion issues your cycle can be interrupted like I mean those are symptoms and signals that would if I heard a friend tell me that I'd be telling them to go to the doctor and get like a diagnosis and some support and But in your business, it's, yeah, this kind of mix of feeling worried, stressed, resentful, feeling like you're not really on top of things and often like struggling to focus or make what feels like meaningful progress.

SPEAKER_01: 22:12

Before we dive back in, I want to talk about something I know holds so many small business owners back. Low confidence. That not so quiet voice of imposter syndrome whispering, who does she think she is? I've been there too, but recently I had a session with Diane at Quinn Hypnosis and honestly, it was incredible. She helped me quiet that voice, boost my confidence and feel good about showing up in my business again. Diane has worked with so many small business owners to do the same, helping them move past blocks of low confidence, anxiety, overwhelm and finally feel good about being visible in their business. If this sounds like something you'd like to explore, go find Diane on Instagram at Quinn Hypnosis check out her work and drop her a DM for a chat yeah thank you for sharing that Jo I think that's really important to point out for anyone who's recognising some of the stuff that you say there you know to think well whereabouts where in this where am I and how can I avoid heading towards that which we're going to talk about more in just a little second yeah and this hustle culture as well thought about this recently and I was thinking and hoping that we're coming away from that I mean I do see a lot of changes you know on the online space we all market our businesses on social media and I think a few years ago when I first became self-employed about 11 almost 12 years ago there was a lot of hustle culture and working hard and that's how you got ahead and I do see that it's changed but do you think it's still glamorized online or are we starting to wake up to that? I

SPEAKER_00: 23:45

feel like it's less glamorized but I still feel like it's just accepted that if you want a big booming brilliant business you've got to put in the hours you've got to work all the hours you've got to sacrifice this it's nothing that comes easy is worth having I think there are more voices saying it doesn't have to be that way but I do think it's still kind of accepted even though it doesn't have to be that way part of the norm of running a business is that you're knackered all the time

SPEAKER_01: 24:14

yeah I'm pretty sure everyone listening a lot of our listeners are still working in an employed role and building their business some are fully self-employed so I mean I think if we were all honest we can relate to that that feeling of if we're not working it's not working yeah and you've got to put in the long hours to get the reward so let's start talking about it not having to be like that like you have got our full attention full attention our ears are up so tell us a bit about your business and particularly your me first method that you've mentioned there and what does it actually look like in practice for a small business owner

SPEAKER_00: 24:53

the thing is when you're still building your business or when you're like working an employed role and building your business is the perfect time to be thinking about this stuff because I have clients come to me who are like five ten years into business and are done in the business takes too much from them they are working way more hours than they want to be and they just don't know how to turn the tide and it's literally like turning a tanker you know we have to make small incremental changes but when you're at the start of your business you can set it up the way you want from the beginning. And that's really the essence is, okay, how do you want to work? What do you want to provide? How do you want to provide it? And so the me first method goes through like beliefs, decisions and actions. So it's building the belief that you can make work easy and still make it pay. Building the belief that you don't have to be, I work with so many people who want to be of service and that's admirable, but you don't have to be of service to the detriment of yourself. Building the belief that you can build a business that works for you and that's not wrong. And then looking at, okay, if I want to build a business that works for me, what hours do I want to work? What services do I want to be offering? How do I want to work and how do I not want to work? What sort of people do I want to work with? How much money do I need to be charging to give me the life that I want the business to give me? So basically baking in from the beginning, a business that actually works for you and not against you. So for me, from the very start of my business I have only had two client days a week I have two client calls on two days a week so that means my max capacity for one-to-one clients at any time is eight and I run my group program on a Wednesday so they get weekly coaching with me on a Wednesday so I know that that's my like energetic capacity for supporting other people and so I've baked that in from the beginning into my prices into the way that the offers are structured into the boundaries that are around the offers and that I communicate with people and it's part of why people want to work with me is because they want businesses that they only have to coach two days a week but if you're charging 50 quid an hour you can't do that and you will have to work more and more hours so deciding how you want to work from the beginning and then building your offers your pricing your boundaries your structure around that is the way I teach people

SPEAKER_01: 27:21

yeah and so many people setting up a business start with a business plan I was talking to a friend the other day there who's like it's all talks just now it's all talks but we've got a business plan like you know what they want the business to to do and whatever and it's interesting because if I'd had this conversation with you and was now having that conversation with her I might say okay but have you thought about how you want it to look like for you because the plan she was talking about was very much how it would look like what it would look like to the client and what the business was but maybe what we should be doing you need you need that of course you need to know what your business is going to look like and what it's going to offer but built into that should also be what it feels like and looks like for you as well and not just this is the business plan and i will do anything it takes to make that

SPEAKER_00: 28:05

work because you can't do anything it takes for very long that is not sustainable like you will burn out you will hit a wall and then the business will be buggered if you don't build a business that you can sustain you won't be able to sustain it yeah and you can only run at the wall for so long yes we want the business to feel possible and fun and whatever you want it to feel like but the way to make it feel that way is to build it that way yeah it's not just about building the belief that you can it's about taking the action to make it possible

SPEAKER_01: 28:37

it makes so much sense doesn't it but we're just not talking about this I thought that just came there as well as if you're a self-employed female and you have a male employed partner I spoke to a business coach about this a while ago just you know just just chatting about it what did she call it she says it was like the the pain olympics or something at the end of the day who's worked the hardest that day is this something you see with clients the most supportive partner in the world right he's not judging you for what you've done that day but you feel judged and you've got to like i did this i did this i've not had a minute and i've been so busy have you come across that before oh yeah

SPEAKER_00: 29:18

oh yeah oh yeah and that is just classic capitalism you should feel guilty if you're not absolutely strung out and exhausted by the end of the day. Because your purpose in life, little capitalist worker bee, is to be as productive as possible for as long as possible to keep the wheels of capitalism turning. That feeling of, I've got a slower day, but does that mean I've missed something? Have I done something wrong? Did I not work hard enough yesterday? Or it's okay because I did work hard enough yesterday. The anti-capitalist sentiment opposed to that is, great, lovely, I can have a quiet day. I'm just gonna take the day off actually and go and sit in the sunshine and read my book because I don't have to be working all the time but that belief has to be paired with action so if you don't want to be working all the time then you have to build offers that allow you not to so my group offer for example I coach on a Wednesday but outside of that they have support from like a whole host of I call them interventions in beliefs decisions and actions that they can work through and so the way that I've structured that offer means that I don't have to be working working all the time yeah and yet people are still getting value from it and I'm still getting paid by it but if I didn't want to be working all the time and my main source of income was one-to-one sessions I would have to be working all the time to be making money but that's not how I want to work so I don't structure my offers that way

SPEAKER_01: 30:41

yeah

SPEAKER_00: 30:41

and that's where it all comes down to isn't it

SPEAKER_01: 30:43

how you build your business yeah so yeah so let's talk about that tanker that you're talking about oh yeah the woman who's been in business for a long time and has only ever known it to be like this and now she's just fed up with it she's so fed up with it like you mentioned it you described her she's the business has taken more from her than she's getting back it's just not how she imagined it to be at all and it comes to you so then how do you go about turning that tanker around

SPEAKER_00: 31:12

first of all I generally am like show me your diary and let's build in some breaks because you're tired and like taking action and making decisions from a place of exhaustion and resentment is not a great place to be. So immediate intervention is let's try and find some buffer time, break time for you. What are some immediate things you can get off your list? And then it's looking at primarily how are your offers structured? How much are you giving to them? And how can we tweak and restructure them so that they require less from you? And then the same with your operations. How does your business run? How much are you doing that someone other than you could do? And I have this exercise in intervention called the shit list and I get them to write down everything that makes them like grimace or makes them procrastinate or makes them like groan and that could be anything from an email from this particular client to scheduling my Instagram posts to fanning around on the back end of my website to like literally anything what a liberating exercise that must be to really get honest with those things and then you can be like okay well everything on that list we're either going to stop doing we're going to delegate it we're going to systemize it or we're going to change it so for example if it's like scheduling your social media posts it's really easy we can like you know if you already have a VA we can ask your VA to do that if it's like one particular client that like you get emails from them and you're like then we delve into okay why is that what is it that's making you make that noise every time you see an email from them is it because the boundary that you have with that client isn't held very well is it because they're not taking the action like what is the root cause of that issue and then how can we alleviate that in your boundaries and in your services we basically do a bit of like diagnostics why is it all such a knotty difficult mess at the moment and how do we unknot it all and that's like one of my specialist skills

SPEAKER_01: 33:12

love it that must be really satisfying to see that process start to finish I absolutely love getting my mitts on

SPEAKER_00: 33:18

people's businesses

SPEAKER_01: 33:22

love it you're the opposite sort of minding your own business

SPEAKER_00: 33:24

oh I've got no minding my own business chill none whatsoever my two specialist skills are like unknotting all the knotty threads and asking like simple but deep questions where my clients are like and so yeah she goes there so my clients do tend to like very quickly get into like we're just very open and honest with each other from the beginning which you know I think hopefully people can see from my website and my Instagram like I trade on honesty I talk about my breakdowns I talk about my mental health I talk about everything with a few exceptions you never see my boyfriend on my Instagram but sometimes I talk about him but I don't share him

SPEAKER_01: 34:04

fair enough

SPEAKER_00: 34:05

but yeah I trade on honesty I'm a brutally honest person in my business and in my life

SPEAKER_01: 34:10

could you share an example of a client you've worked with you don't have to name names if you don't want to do that who you've sort of taken from A to B you know and broken them free from this limiting beliefs this hustle

SPEAKER_00: 34:21

culture this

SPEAKER_01: 34:22

always

SPEAKER_00: 34:22

on and what changed for them someone that I work with at the moment is amazing they're a voice coach breath accent coach when we started working together they were doing well and their business had been running for maybe three to five years and they were doing really well but they did feel like they needed to be like working loads to be making the money they had like four or five different income streams which is brilliant but in one of those income streams in particular, they were really giving too much for too little. It was taking up a lot of their time for not enough return. So we restructured that, what was a one-to-one offer into a group offer that they run four times a year, which is like they've run it like four times and it's been sold out every time. And then their core signature one-to-one offer kind of didn't really have a lot of structure. It didn't have standardized pricing. They were getting really amazing results, but it wasn't that easy to to market it and it required a lot of brainpower from them to each time they onboarded a client not just to onboard them but to take them through the process that they had but that they kind of hadn't like solidified into a process and so we did that and we again like standardized the offer so that it was very clear what it was what you got how much it was and over what period it happened and again they're like sold out with that and then interestingly they started branching out into corporate work and to begin in with this person was like really questioning themselves and really essentially they just had this kind of belief that like that was maybe too much, too lofty ambitions. One of my things that my clients say about me is like, I am really honest with people. And so with that client, I was like, what I'm noticing is the way that you're talking about yourself and your work and relating it to this corporate client is like the total antithesis of the way you talk about your one-to-one private work. and so we kind of like dug into that and just helped them to shift that belief that like this is something they can do and that they're brilliant at and they're just doing it in a different environment or in a different way and so now they're doing more corporate work and they are basically working less than ever and earning more than ever which is like the literal dream for a client like dream case study they're just amazing they're so cool they're going from strength to strength which is like totally their own work and their own thing it's just that I I've been like maybe we could look at this oh I think maybe we could do that love that

SPEAKER_01: 36:58

and so if someone's listening and thinking right okay I want that to work less make more who doesn't really want that yeah what's a small shift they could take just now you've mentioned the sort of first thing you would look at is like let's get some breaks in is that what you would suggest what's the first thing you'd say go and look at today if you want to start moving this in a different direction quick pause from our conversation because I'm one wondering how you'd feel if I told you I could give you a free£50 today. Yep if you've been thinking about moving your business bank account or perhaps you don't have a business bank account yet I can highly recommend Monzo and if you open an account with them via the link in today's show notes you get a free£50. Monzo are free to bank with, I bank with them personally, it's so easy to use and also the one best business banking provider in the UK in 2024. So if you don't have a business bank account yet or you're looking to change from where you are just now to free business banking and So two

SPEAKER_00: 37:56

things. First thing, I have like a free resource, which is called the Me First Diary Reset, which will help you basically look at your diary and be like, where is all the time leaking away to? And it's like a set of questions that I basically get you to kind of audit where your time is going. And then the next step is like taking action on that audit and figuring out what you can stop doing. But I would say another really good first step is the shit list. so just get a blank piece of paper or however you like to get thoughts out of your head whether it's typing or writing or you know drawing and I want you to write down everything that yeah makes you grimace makes you groan makes you not want to do it makes you procrastinate makes you want to fate your own death and run away to Peru like write it all down and what you will see is I bet there are a load of themes so what are the themes

SPEAKER_01: 38:49

like I really want to ask you things for like my my group opens once a month and there's so many back office buttons have to be pressed to make that happen

SPEAKER_00: 39:02

bloody buttons

SPEAKER_01: 39:02

yeah bloody buttons I do have a VA but then we changed this process slightly and then school holidays kicked in I've got young twins and I couldn't actually get my head around it enough to even explain what I needed her to do yeah that is on my list now to hand that off because she will love that she loves buttons and I'm just like breaking into a sweat every time I need to look at it

SPEAKER_00: 39:29

and you know what that is I hear that so much it's like oh but it's it'll be easier for me to just do it than delegate it it isn't because it's taking up so much of your brain space like that dread of the buttons is taking up way more brain space and energy and time than just the pressing of the buttons and so my question back is okay how can you make it really easy to hand it over like do you word from it into a voicemail and then put it through chat gpt and get it to summarize it and send it to your v8 what's the easiest way that you can get that off your shit list essentially

SPEAKER_01: 40:01

i think for me i love a brain dump pen paper brain dump you'll love the shit oh so free and just write everything down in no particular order all over the page just out of there and there's some science i know between the pen and paper like there is um which is a little why i created i've got a pen to paper planner that i created it's a social media planner because that is it's cathartic that feeling is that the right word yeah getting that out through the ink onto the air and just taking a deep breath so I think that's what I need to do brain dump first and then you get this realization that it's actually not as bad as you thought it was which is nice

SPEAKER_00: 40:37

it's never as bad as you thought it was no no never but also think about like if you could just get two things off your shit list how much time energy capacity that will give you back do the free diary reset or do the shit list I need to record a freebie on the shit list because i do think it's really powerful

SPEAKER_01: 40:56

go for it i will include joe's links and what else in the show notes but where can we find said freebie because i will be going to look for it

SPEAKER_00: 41:02

yes so i will give you a link to go for it or you can just respond to any of my stories on my instagram with the word reset and you know the lovely many chat will send it to you in the dms and yeah i'm get wildly free on instagram so awesome

SPEAKER_01: 41:17

all these links will be in the the show notes which will be linked below for you now we are going to have listeners who are listening just now and are like okay that sounds lovely but I can't do that like I have to work this hard right now to get where I'm going what would you say speaking directly to them life is too fucking short to do that friend boom and she's just dropped the mic and walked away

SPEAKER_00: 41:45

but like not to go super deep and dark right at the end of the podcast but I've had two mental health crises before I was 31 I'm 38 now and my dad passed away when he was 60 and I was 16 so we are here for a good time not a long time do not sacrifice your happiness on the way to some arbitrary point that you would just push back again and again and again we have to learn to actually live not just work

SPEAKER_01: 42:13

gosh you

SPEAKER_00: 42:14

do

SPEAKER_01: 42:15

get as dark as you like honestly like we no holds barred on here we want to talk about the real stuff my husband actually worked with a man he's worked in his company for 25 years it's the complete opposite of me he will never leave I pivot constantly instead of employment but he worked he was an apprentice for this man and then they worked together until they worked eventually in an office side by side he was so looking forward to retirement he had all these plans for retirement you know where this is going and then woke up at the start of this year with a lump in his neck he'd been perfectly healthy until then and he passed away a few months later Jesus Christ was due to retire next year it doesn't get sadder than that you know he was waiting to do all these things when he retired that time never came we need to be mindful of

SPEAKER_00: 43:04

this we are literally here in the blink of an eye and like what a fucking waste of a life if you don't take advantage of the time that you have and I don't want to be sat at this desk 10 hours a day six days a week that is not what I want my life to be I want to travel I want to try all the food in the world I I want to swim in all the seas. And so I want to build a business that lets me do that, not just in terms of how much money it pays me, but the time that I get to live my life. Your time is also a

SPEAKER_01: 43:32

currency. Your time, energy, money is not the only currency out there. In fact, money, we could say, is the easiest because it's renewable. You can make more. There's always more money out there to be had, but there's not more time. It's as simple as that. And so if someone is listening and saying that, listen, this is not going to work for me, like I'm in the hustle mode I'm working all the hours if that's what you want then crack on but if it's not then you have to sit down and look at that set aside an hour here to do this shit list that Jo's talking about do your diary reset really think about why did I start this in the first place and what do I want from it and if you want to earn a thousand pound a week and work three days a week

SPEAKER_00: 44:15

make it happen exactly start there and work backwards yeah and that clarity is perfect you want to make a grand a week and work three days a week or three hours a week fine okay what offers can you provide in three days a week that will net you a thousand pounds what's your unit pricing and then go market it and to those people who are like I can't do it I'm hustling I'm hustling I'll see you in a year's time I'll be here

SPEAKER_01: 44:37

Jo be there Jo be there so we know where we can find Jo I'm going to link all that in the show notes that has been I know we have ended on some deep dark conversation there but you know what I don't care because that's what we're here for we're here to talk about it all we're not here to talk about the fluff we're here to talk about all the highs and the lows and i did say that at the start of this conversation you had some highs and lows to share with us it gets to be easy and it gets to be the way you want it to be if you're willing to really deep dive into that and be honest about what you want it to be and then it's going to take a bit of work to chip away at that sort of this holdover is that we've got that's telling us to that voice it's telling us that it doesn't work like that that's probably where the hardest work will be chipping away at that

SPEAKER_00: 45:23

yeah it is you know how to set up offers you know how to market them you know how to price them even if you don't feel like you should price them that way but chipping away at and shifting that belief that you can't that's the thing that you have to do day after day after day and

SPEAKER_01: 45:39

is that

SPEAKER_00: 45:39

something

SPEAKER_01: 45:39

then that that obviously is something that you work with business owners and employ people to do then in your me first program

SPEAKER_00: 45:46

yeah so my me first accelerator is my group program and basically there's like three sets of audio in interventions so like the belief rewire is where we do that and the reason I've made them like a reason I've made them audio and be the reason like they're there so that you can go back to them at any time is this stuff does take time and it takes practice and it takes repetition and really what we're doing is we're creating new neural pathways which are just new beliefs and new thoughts in our brain that become habitual and that takes time it's like building a muscle there's like 10 key belief rewires that you have like a little five minute audio for that you can listen to over and over again it helps to yeah rewire those beliefs and shift thought patterns and create new pathways in your brain

SPEAKER_01: 46:32

yeah i love that and we have a lot of experience in neurology our young son had neurosurgery when he was just two he had the left hand side of his brain his left hemisphere completely disconnected to stop epileptic seizures and he had he is still today constantly and creating new neural pathways when he had to relearn to talk and walk and do all sorts of things and so we see that happen every day it is very very possible and very very powerful

SPEAKER_00: 46:59

like the brain is just incredible to think that your son had such huge neurosurgery and his brain is just constantly rebuilding and remaking itself that's amazing it's

SPEAKER_01: 47:13

incredible and he started school the other day in a mainstream school which we never knew if that would be possible he skipped away and he's just doing amazing so yeah Yes, I'm all for that. We witness that happening every single day. Your brain is incredible. Incredible.

SPEAKER_00: 47:28

That's such an amazing, like, gives me goosebumps. Like you can literally see neuroplasticity happening in front of you.

SPEAKER_01: 47:34

Yeah, that's incredible. And we meet with the neurologist regularly and just it's a fascinating, fascinating subject. It really is. I'm totally

SPEAKER_00: 47:42

obsessed with neuroscience. Really? And behaviour change. Yeah, I am. I'm in no way a clinician or an expert or anything, but I'm a very avid, avid fan.

SPEAKER_01: 47:51

yeah no wonder it's so fascinating really fascinating what our brains are capable of what we're capable of what our bodies are capable of so yeah I guess ending on that note is probably the best don't settle if you're not happy don't settle for where you are change it and we are so privileged as business owners to be able to change that absolutely so take the bull by the horns or take the notepad by the pen and go for it so is there anything you think we've not covered today joe that you'd like to like to put out there

SPEAKER_00: 48:26

covered so much ground no i don't think so just if you're self-employed or if you're building your own business on the side of employment you have all the power you can make all the decisions and so make good ones please

SPEAKER_01: 48:42

absolutely so yep the show notes will be detailed with exactly where you can find joe where you can find her freebie about the shit list and the diary reset go have a look at it it's the first thing I'm going to do when I come off this call because I'm super curious what that looks like yeah and just you know Jo's business is get wildly free get wildly free if that's what you want then go after it thank you so much Jo for joining us today that was an incredible conversation and I know it's going to resonate with so many people listening today thank you so much for having me I've

SPEAKER_00: 49:16

loved it

SPEAKER_01: 49:17

pleasure take care bye thank you so much for joining for another episode of Small Business Growth Addicts I hope today's episode has given you inspiration and tangible tips that you can use to grow your small business in a way that feels right for you if you loved today's episode please head over to smallbusinessgrowthaddicts.com and check out today's show notes where you can find details of our wonderful guests sponsors discounts freebies and so much more please also don't forget to leave a review today reviews are invaluable to us to help us get the show out there every single one is read and very much appreciated until next time