Stop Measuring Success by Busy: How to Work with Intention

Feeling constantly busy but never truly fulfilled? 

In this episode of Small Business Growth Addicts, host Amanda Hughes chats with Hannah Chambers, founder of Bored of Busy, about how to stop measuring success by how busy you are — and start building a business that actually feels good to run.

They dive into what working with intention really means for small business owners, especially women juggling family, clients, and life.

You’ll learn how to:
✨ Shift from busy to balanced with intentional action
✨ Build systems and routines that reduce overwhelm
✨ Use tools like Asana, time-blocking & SOPs to stay organised
✨ Lead yourself first through self-leadership and mindset
✨ Choose a planning style (digital or paper!) that works for your brain 

If you’ve ever found yourself stuck on the hamster wheel of “doing more,” this episode will show you a better way, one that brings ease, structure, and purpose back into your business.

Listen now for a grounded, relatable chat full of practical tips, mindset shifts, and the occasional laugh (especially when Amanda and Hannah debate pen-to-paper vs digital planning)

Thanks to our Growth Addicts Sponsor:
Meet Heyday – the audience-first marketing agency helping SMEs, creatives, and fierce forces show up, stand out, and shine online.

From strategy and content to copy that actually connects, Heyday tailor digital marketing support to your brand’s unique goals. Whether you’re just starting out or scaling, they’ll help you connect with your audience, grow with confidence, and step into your Heyday era.

👉 Visit www.heydaydigitalagency.co.uk

Connect with our guest Hannah Chambers of Bored of Busy:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/boredofbusy/

• Connect with Amanda on Instagram: @amandahughes.uk
• Growth Addicts Show Notes: Read the blog + grab freebies + guest links
• Small Biz Community: Join Get Seen Get Sales and get the support, strategies & accountability you need to grow your business on social media with confidence. Learn more
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Hi, hello, welcome. I'm Amanda Hood, your host of Small Business Growth Addicts. I escaped to corporate world after 12 months of a side hustle which turned into my full-time income. Fast forward 10 years and I'm running not my first but my second small business, and this time around it's with a passion to share all that I know, all that I've learned and all that I'm still learning with fellow small business owners. As the title of the show suggests, I am addicted to growing my business and I know you are too. Growth means different things to different people though, and that's why we talk about a whole host of subjects on growth addicts. Whether that's in a solo episode, just me or with one of my many awesome guests. Between us we share advice, tips, and real-life entrepreneurial experience. So grab a pen, a pupper, and a biscuit, obviously, and get ready to grow that small business of yours. This is Small Business Growth Addicts. Welcome to another episode of Small Business Growth Addicts. So delighted to have you here. And today I am joined by Hannah Chambers, who is the brilliant mind behind her business with a fantastic name. It's called Board of Busy. Hannah is a business and life success strategist who helps female founders create full lives, not just busy ones. And today we crack that right open. Hannah talks about systems and structure and self-leadership, and she's just really all about helping women lead their businesses with intention. I love that word. Ease and just unapologetic. I want energy and I can have energy. And I just absolutely love what we're talking about today. Hannah and I also have a friendly debate going on over on Instagram because Hannah is firmly team digital planning while I am firmly team pen-to-paper planning. So that chat was a really fun one to have. So let's dive into this episode where we talk about how building a business just does not have to consume you. Grab your planner, your notebook, or your digital notes, we won't judge. And let's get into it. Let's pause for a second to hear a word from our sponsors.

SPEAKER_00: 2:04

Heyday means living in the period of your greatest success, and who says that can't be right now? We're Heyday, the audience first marketing agency helping businesses like yours show up, stand out, and shine online. You've built something amazing. Now let's make sure the world sees it. Step into your Heyday era at heyday digitalagency.co.uk.

SPEAKER_02: 2:26

Hi, Hannah of Board of Busy. How are you today? I am good, thank you. How are you? I'm really good, thanks. I'm really good. We've been chatting for quite some time on Instagram. We almost met in real life at the Mel Robbins concert in London, actually. Yeah. But it didn't quite work out. So for anyone who is just meeting you for the first time, Hannah, tell us a bit about your wonderful business. Love the name, Board of Busy, and how it all began.

SPEAKER_01: 2:54

Yes, thank you so much. So yeah, I'm Hannah, founder of Board of Busy, and I call myself a hybrid business mentor for high-performing women. And what that basically means is I didn't want to be like stifled in a box of just doing one thing. I am a multi-passionate, multi-talented individual. And a lot of my work is around practical infrastructure of business, but then self-leadership and mindset as well. So I kind of combine those two elements. But Board of Busy really started with being sat right here at my laptop, working in a different business, different dynamic, and literally thinking, I am so busy, but for what? And if I spend the next 10 years of my life feeling the way I do, about constantly doing without purpose and being busy and busy being consumed, will I be happy that I lived my life to my full potential? And the answer was no. And I did quite a lot of reflecting around busyness and doing and how it is a measure of success, particularly for women when we're juggling caring responsibilities, businesses, ambition, and our own health and wellness. For me, it's such a false economy. Busy doing what and for why? And so much of it is linked to what we think we should be doing in business, society's expectations of us. And so I pretty much just like had a little life crisis and wanted to burn it all down and be like, actually, what do I want? What do I want for my life? And how do I prioritize my happiness, my goals, my ambition while also doing everything that I have to do? Because there's a lot, there's a lot. And for me, it looked like throwing away the classic ways of growing business and the busy and the hustle and the endless doing and realigning to like intentional action and awareness over the things that I'm doing and the result I'm trying to get. And that forms into my method, which I know we've got a lot to talk about, in that I like to term businesses digital rather than chaotic notes, paper, post-it notes, and what have you. Don't look behind me. Can you see all my post-it notes? We listen and we look and we don't judge. I am me and you be you. But this is the important thing that I can really identify myself. I'm typical type A. I call myself a control enthusiast. My brain works in organized files and boxes. I like to know what's happening when because I know that I can get really overwhelmed. And when I'm overwhelmed, I'm not a nice person. And so this kind of played into how I was experiencing business and just my life day to day. And what I needed was a way to compartmentalize all the roles that I play as Hannah so that it felt safe, it felt controlled, it felt organized because I was fed up of being stressy, exhausted, pushed to the limit, always busy, but never feeling like I was done and like all of these things. And so it's a very long-winded answer to your question. So sorry, like word vomit is a disease I have.

SPEAKER_02: 5:48

That's all.

SPEAKER_01: 5:49

This is how Board of Busy was created in the whole I recognize that women, we rise and we win when we're not busy doing stuff for other people's standards and other people's sake, and we prioritize what we want, how we work best, and how we lay the structure to make it as simple and straightforward as possible for ourselves, particularly if we are in a juggle season.

SPEAKER_02: 6:13

Gosh, not word vomit at all, Hannah. Like you're really like lit a fire there. I can so relate to so many things you're saying. Like, I feel for me it's almost a weekly check-in of right, what am I doing and what's the return on it? What's the ROI on it? You know, what is this activity actually bringing to the table? Board of Busy is just so spot on, isn't it? I think everyone listening will be able to relate to that. And you mentioned caring responsibilities, you know, when kids are involved or even elderly parents. I mean, as we speak just now, I've got the washing on because I need Halloween costumes rewashed for Friday that they had on yesterday that they want to wear again, you know. There's this just constant load ticking over, isn't there? And I know you speak a lot about women in particular, women, entrepreneurs, business owners in particular, building full lives rather than just busy ones. But what do you actually mean by that? And what does that actually look like taking into consideration everything you've just mentioned there?

SPEAKER_01: 7:09

Yeah, thank you. I love this question. So yeah, I talk about create a full life, not just a busy one, because for me, there's a stark difference between being fulfilled in what you're doing and the alignment to the stuff you're doing, versus just being busy doing stuff. Anyone can sit at a laptop all day and be busy, but it takes a true leader and the awareness of your own makeup and how you show up to recognize what do I actually want and need to be doing today? And what is the return? And that has nothing to do with time. We are so fixated on time and like filling it. For me, I want a full life. That has nothing to do with not working. So Board of Busy is not about not working. I love working, it is a huge part of my identity. I love what I do, I love what I'm growing, I love the way in which I interact with my clients. So it's not about working less, it is about choice. It is about looking at everything in your life and deciding like what is the priority and why and what does it bring out in me? And I mean I mean this holistically because my days and how I run my business always start with movement, for example. Once I've dealt with the kids, whatever I need to do with them, drop them off at school or a grandparent's or whatever, I categorically want to move my body. Like being out in nature is so important to me. It makes me creative, it helps me kind of like blow away the cobwebs of a stressful morning with the kids, and I'm big into fitness, but they're my personal goals. But I'm doing stuff pretty much from the minute I get up to the minute I go to bed. Like I'm classically busy, but all of the things that I'm doing are with intention. I recognize that how this thing, this block of time that I'm spending, what it means for me as a woman, what it means for me as a mother, what it means for me in my business. And so I'm being really intentional with how I am spending my time and painting that bigger picture around my purpose. I will constantly say, like, I was not just put on this earth to be a mum, and I recognize that comes from a place of privilege. I'm not even gonna go down there. Obviously, I love my children because like of course I do. Of course I don't need to justify it. But I have an identity beyond just motherhood. I have an identity beyond being a wife, I have an identity beyond being a business owner, like intrinsically, how I feel in myself and how happy I am as an individual spills into everything else that I do. And so that direct fullness of my life, and I take that even day to day. Like, I want a full day to day that I'm like, is this making me happy? Is this bringing me joy? Am I aligned to what I'm good at and like lights that fire? Then yeah, let's go, let's do more of that. And that could be a 10-hour day of doing stuff that fills me up, or it could be a couple of hours and then you know, I go and do nothing. But the point is, it's a choice rather than feeling forced that I have to do this, I should do that. If I don't do it, I will be a success. And my results constantly being forged by external factors of other people's opinions of me. Because ultimately, what is the point? What is the point if we're not happy at the core of everything that we do? Like, what is the point?

SPEAKER_02: 10:30

If you know me by now, you'll know that I love social media. It's how I've grown my businesses, and now I want to help you do the same. That's why I created Get Seen Get Sales, my mentor group for small business owners who want to get seen online and actually attract followers that convert to customers. Inside, you'll get weekly content prompts, live workshops, and support on everything you need to grow confidently on social media. If you're feeling stuck, overwhelmed, or just ready to do things differently, I've got you. Head to smallbusinessgrowthaddicts.com to join us. Absolutely. Again, it can resonate to so much of that. What's it all for? And it doesn't have to be all work and no play. We can, you know, as you say, a great privilege to be in a position as business owners to build days and weeks and months and years that look like what we want, like stuff we enjoy. And again, that's something I'm reassessing constantly as well. What did I enjoy? What did I spend my time on? How did I feel about that? Why did that not feel quite right? Is that something I want to keep doing? Like you love movement as well. In fact, in a Facebook group this morning, someone had asked something like, What's the biggest best habit you've put into your life, you've implemented into your life? And I was like, Do you know movement probably? And I mean that in just every sense of the word. Like I just move constantly, like you, I am busy, but I'm busy doing for the most part things that I want to do and I enjoy doing and things that move the needle forward in each area of life.

SPEAKER_01: 11:57

Totally.

SPEAKER_02: 11:58

Yeah, and even if it's just going a walk or even a good clear out of something, I'm just always moving because it makes me feel good.

SPEAKER_01: 12:04

Mm-hmm. Totally. And it's about recognition. I think we're talking about movement, and it's never anything to do with like fitness or weight loss or anything like that. It is for me all about the my mental wellness, and particularly with children, right? Like, I think like it's it's scientifically proven, like dopamine, getting outside into nature, releases dopamine so good first, our brains, particularly as creatives. But it is really funny to me, but not surprising, that lots of the women that I talk to before they start working with me, like some of their basic goals of how they want to rewire and rebuild their businesses, are because like I don't do anything for me in terms of movement. I can't even go for a walk. I'm so busy. And I fancied myself starting this business, having freedom, going to the yoga class and stuff, but it hasn't happened like that. And it's so sad to my soul that a basic human right, such as going for a walk and prioritizing our overall health, is then made like a reward. I will do that when I have completed my to-do list. I will do that when I've hit 10k months, then I'll be ready to. And when I've done blah, blah, blah. And the goalpost just keeps moving and moving and moving back because we're busying ourselves with all of this other stuff that that thing, that North Star really basic goal that we really want for our lives that will make us feel fuller, energized, and more empowered. We're putting off. And to me, it's like, oh wow, we've got a lot of work to do still. It's 2025 with women and our basic needs, and like for anyone, are still at the bottom of the pile because all of the other stuff we should be doing comes first. And so, yeah, I'm very much like that whole like imagine being too busy to put some of the core structure into your day that not only benefits you as an individual, but you know, the longevity of your life, how energized you are to be with your children, how good you feel in yourself. No, we need to stop this because we deserve so much more.

SPEAKER_02: 14:01

Yeah. And especially I think if you've left an employed role to be self-employed, surely that's not what you imagined it to be like. Because I know when I was employed and stuck in a back office and thinking, oh, I wish I could just like go out for a walk whenever I wanted to, I should just pick up the dog and go whenever. And at that point I didn't have kids, but I knew a big driver for me of having my own businesses that I wanted to do pick-up and drop off and appointments and whatever without asking anyone permission. So don't then jump out of the frying pan into the fire where you're then having to ask yourself permission and you're not allowing it.

SPEAKER_01: 14:38

Or if you do, you're beating yourself up mentally. Like your brain the whole time is going, oh my god, I need to do this, and oh my god, I forgot about that. And oh my god, like constantly in fight or flight, like that's not my version of freedom. Like my version of freedom is very much around choice. It's having physical freedom so I can work, I can go wherever, but also being mentally available for the thing that I'm doing at that time. Because if I can children, I want to be with my children physically, but I want to be there mentally as well. I don't want to be there in body, but my mind is, oh my God, I've got so much to do. I wish I was at my laptop. Because is that really freedom? That's a lot of kind of like of the trap that women find themselves in. And we've created these businesses and we're we're so privileged that we've got the opportunity to, and we're we're making money and we're changing lives, but we're stuck in a little prison of our own design where we don't actually feel like we can switch off and it is safe.

SPEAKER_02: 15:37

And you mentioned intention there as well, which struck a chord because intention was my sort of word of the year for this year to just use my time so much more intentionally. I don't get it right all the time. It's a work in progress, but God, when you do it, feels so nice. It's like you're doing what you want to do because you enjoy it and because it's moving the knee dealer, all of those things we spoke about there. So intention is so powerful, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 16:00

Yeah, so, so, so powerful. For me, it's that taking back control. It is putting what I want at the forefront, which is really difficult for quite a lot of women to do for reasons that we've already discussed, but it is recognizing by making a conscious choice over what I'm doing, I know the result that I'm gonna create. And that is such a, I'd call it like a strategically considered approach to business, because most people get so caught up in the rap race of constantly doing and more, and we keep going and we keep doing that, and then it's really, really difficult to get off. But moving with intention, it can feel terrifying to some people because it does take a bit of pause, it does take a bit of analysis of like recognizing like what the heck am I doing? And like, how is it serving me? And am I doing it because I want to do it, or am I doing it because somebody on Instagram is doing it? And I thought, like, well, I need to do that too. And then all of a sudden, we're doing all of the things, but really not really understanding why.

SPEAKER_02: 17:01

Gosh, you know, I got caught in a trap like that a few months ago where I'd read a few things, and you know it's like when you're on social media, the more you interact with certain types of content, the more you get shown it. I was looking at some PR-related things, and then all of a sudden, seen all of these messages saying you need PR, you need PR, you can't grow a business without PR. You've got to get into newspapers and blogs and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, all right, okay, it's so easy how you get caught up in that trap. And then before I knew it, I spent the next few weeks really focused on that. It was taking forever to write pitches and fill in inquiry forms and guest application forms and whatever. And then my own actual baseline work was falling behind, and I'm catching up with that. And I had to sit down, like, what is going on here? Like, how long is this actually taking me? What is even the purpose? Do I even need this? Like, what gap is this filling in my business? There is no gap. Like, what is this actually going to bring to the party? And had to just draw a line under it and like move on. And now I know PR is important, but I believe it's something you can have a scattered approach to across the year. It's not having to be something for me anyway that becomes part of my daily work. But it was so quick how I fell into that hole.

SPEAKER_01: 18:15

Yeah, and I mean, this is where social media and marketing, like it is a blessing. Of course, we need it, it is a lifeline, but it also can be the biggest curse if you are not in a position where you have your blinkers on to like, what is it that I'm doing right now? Like, what is this little season of my business and my life about? And how do I stay disciplined and consistent to what I said I was gonna do? And when you're not in that mind frame for or that position for whatever reasons, a lot of that for my clients comes down to like that busyness and that behavior. We are susceptible. We are susceptible to what we're being told on social media and what we're reading. And it's so easy to be like, I'm gonna just try something new. It's gonna add it on. But then, like to your point, you get caught up in it, and then you're like, why the heck like why? What happened there? Like some little time suck, and then I've I've canned it off. And where did all of that time go?

SPEAKER_02: 19:07

And what was even the end goal? I think that's good as well. If you are thinking of exploring perhaps a new marketing avenue or whatever, think about the end goal. Is there a gap in your business just now that you feel that that will fill? What's the end goal? What's the measure of success? What does it actually look like and work back the way rather than starting at the top, just like, I need this, I don't know why, but I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01: 19:28

Exactly. When I talk to my clients, so much heartache in business, in my opinion, is caused by two things it's money or it's time. At the end of it, of course, we can be purpose-led and impact-led individuals, but ultimately we need to run profitable businesses. Otherwise, it's just an expensive hobby. And so, to your point, if it isn't anything to do with time and freeing myself up or being able to invest it somewhere else, or generating the income you need so that you can be profitable, pay yourself, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then why? Why? What is it for? Because it's so easy. We all get caught up on that doing more and wanting more and going for more and big numbers and exciting and shiny objects and stuff. But actually, is that what you want? Is that what you want for right now? And if it's not, that's okay. That's really okay.

SPEAKER_02: 20:14

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SPEAKER_00: 20:28

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SPEAKER_02: 21:09

Absolutely. And now all of this sounds great and good in theory. However, it takes a bit of discipline, doesn't it, to manage yourself in that way. And I know you talk a lot about self-leadership being a strategy in itself for growth. So, what does that mean to you and what does that actually sort of look like for a small business owner self-leadership? Do you think?

SPEAKER_01: 21:32

There's a lot around kind of like the psychology of our own behaviors. There's a lot about recognizing your own energy and how you're able to show up and work at your best. It's about understanding your own energy, like when do I work best and why? What is my actual capacity? And I mean that physically because we don't all have the same hours in the day, but I mean that mentally and emotionally as well. Really getting into the crux of like, who am I as an individual? Because the way that you work, Amanda, is not the same as the way that I work, and that's okay because we're different. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. A lot of the women I work with are neurodivergent. It's not a surprise, most of the creatives, 75% of the creative I work with in one-to-one capacity are ADHD. Plays a massive impact into how they're showing up every single day. And that's okay. For me, it's to be celebrated. But we need to understand actually what's going on in your head, what are the patterns of behaviors and why does it happen that way? Because then you can understand your unique perspective of self. You can then build the infrastructure. So, what I would call like the physical foundations of your business to meet your own needs rather than what I see so many other women doing because there isn't enough education on this out there, is building businesses based on other people's ways of working. Because that's the only information that we've got. And all of a sudden, they're like, why am I failing? I can't be as energetic as her. I don't have the concentration the same as her. I can't do five things as once. And we compare ourselves to other people, but not us. And it's displacing our own power because we don't spend enough time trying to understand this is me and this is what I need to be able to show up to my business. And this is how I work best. And that's okay without justification. Sometimes people will say to me, like, oh, like my clients, like, oh, I had to work this evening, Hannah, don't tell me off. And I'm like, I'm not telling you off. Like, if you get energy in the evening, you work in the evening as long as what you're doing is intentional and you're not sitting at your laptop just because wasting a couple of hours. Like, if you show up and work in the evening because you've got the energy, you've got the focus, you've got the creativity, and you know what the result of that time is, you go for it. That's great. That's you, and that's okay. Like, who makes the rules? We make the rules. And that discipline and consistency piece, really, for me, comes from knowing that business is a long game, and there's a lot out there around, you know, overnight success and quick wins, and we're facing a generation that are obsessed with easy dopamine, so instant likes and instant sales and having everything in five seconds. Business doesn't work like that. And people that have been in the game long enough know it takes time, it takes putting in the reps, it takes banging the drum daily, weekly, monthly, and then suddenly you create overnight success. Yeah. That's not sexy marketing to talk about, is it? It's not sexy.

SPEAKER_02: 24:23

Yeah, but especially as someone who helps small business owners with their social media marketing, that's a constant message. Like it rarely, if ever, happens overnight. And one member recently has just realized that light bulb moment. She's been starting from scratch just since around April this year, brand new to socials, building up her business, and it's been quiet, and no one's commenting and no one's reacting to story polls or whatever. But then her first paid event sold out. People have been watching and taking it in and learning. Like you've done the hard work, and and you know, when you did launch, you got the sales you wanted. But that took a good six months of sort of prep work to get to that, you know?

SPEAKER_01: 25:05

Exactly, exactly. And the way that I see that, I particularly knew for myself, like if I'm gonna be consistent and I'm gonna be disciplined and do the thing I said I was gonna do, which is show up every single day and market my business. Like it's a great example. Most people can get really disheartened when the metrics aren't coming in instantly, and so they stop and we get into this stop, start, stop, start, busy, busy cycle of what is it all for? Whereas I knew, right, I need a prompt, I need a physical prompt every single day that pops into oh, sure, we'll get onto this, my digital to-do list. It's no effort from me to say, show up on your Instagram stories. I'm quite a disciplined person by nature. It's just it's how I am I'm made. And I can I look at my dad and mom, I get it from you, I see it. Like if I say I'm gonna do something, I trust myself to do it. It's just the way I am. But I've got a lot of things in my head that I'm like, I need to do that, I need to do that for my business, I need to do that for my life. And so part of the battle with discipline and consistency is the remembering of the things that you said you were gonna be disciplined and consistent with. And we know that in order to create a habit, it takes like at least 12 weeks of doing something in whatever that consistent routine is to cement it into part of your just like integral ecosystem. And so that's what I did. I built a system that meant I didn't have to hold on to the things I said I was gonna do, that it's just there for me every single day. So I know I can show up to my business, be really clear, Hannah, this is what you said you were gonna do, go and do it, and continually build that trust and consistency with myself and my business, and also people looking in, trusting that authority in me, that I show up when I talk about my business.

SPEAKER_02: 26:49

One of the most basic things you can actually do for your business is just do what you said you were gonna do, isn't it? Like, I don't know how many tradesmen I've tried to book and they just don't turn up. They just don't turn up. They don't phone, they don't text to say, they just don't appear. And I don't know how do you stay in business because it's the most basic foundation. Like just turn up.

SPEAKER_01: 27:07

Yeah, literally turn up, do the things we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02: 27:12

Absolutely. And you know, when you were talking there as well about thinking about that self-discipline and getting into really the heart of when do I actually work best? And I've thought about that a lot in the past few years, and actually my window's quite short. I've noticed. I'm not a great morning person, so I've got young twins and getting them dressed for and out for school and singing to the dog and whatever. I kind of need a minute to just like tell my body that we have not been chased by a tiger. All I was doing was getting my kids to school, like ever since fine. We can take a breath, we can make our smoothie, we can chill for five. Like, I need that type of like re-transition, I think. Really, my really good working hours are to start at 11 to 2, they're very short. Yeah. Because then before I do pickup, I need that two to three to like walk the dog or do a workout or I don't know, chill, whatever it might be, to transition again from a business owner to mum. And like you say, that's how I work. That's not to say that's gonna work for anyone else. However, if you're listening and you think that does sound like you, go for it, give it a try. And that whole cheesy cliche of you, your uniqueness is your superpower, that's where it all lies. Like, figure yourself out. Yeah, loads of what you said there just, but it's about doing the work, isn't it? And trying to figure that out. And that's where you can help people do that, can't you?

SPEAKER_01: 28:31

Yeah, totally. And you know, so much of that work is really difficult when you're balls to the wall every single day in busy doing and relentless, you know, on the treadmill, you're on the hamster wheel. And I understand in my core that when you're in that position in business, you can be in that position and you know, be making the money that you want to make and be having the solar line clients. But if internally you're like, oh my God, I can't get off, and if I stop, it's all gonna come crumbling down, or there's this narrative around your busyness and doing, then taking considered pause to reflect and understand yourself and work out what I want and how I work best, it can be terrifying. It can be really, really terrifying and it's it can be difficult as well. And I can totally see that, and I see that with particularly my one-to-one clients. But I fundamentally know in my core, from all of the evidence of the clients I work with, that in order, in slowing down and pausing, going back and doing some of the realigning and the rebuilding in a way that suits where you want to go is exactly what propels you towards where you're getting to without that whole. I don't really talk about burnout, but you know, burnout is one of those things. But without your nervous system constantly being in fight or flight, or like you said, constantly thinking you're being chased out of a cave by a bear, like, no, it's just business, it's okay. It's just an email, it's cool. Yeah, it's just an email, it's gonna be all right, like it's not going to melt down. But But when you're constantly at that level and your cortisols are like on the roof and stuff, all it takes is one little thing that can tip you over the edge. And I really found sorry, tangent, but I really found with myself, it wasn't the business stuff that would tip me over the edge, it was the life stuff. Like I would feel pretty safe in my business because it's just me and it's me against me, and I trust myself to do the stuff I was gonna the stuff I'm gonna do. But something could happen with my kids or the school or a family member, and I it could just be really small, a school email, and I'd be like, oh my god, I can't believe they're not giving me enough time to get stuff ready for school. This is so like and go into meltdown. And I was having to check myself and be like, girl, like what is it? Are you okay? And it was because the way in which I was managing my life and my business were not the same. And so it changed my perspective to be like, actually, if you can control what you can control in your business, you can control what you can control in your life, so it doesn't feel like it's coming at you and trying to derail you, and that you're braced for impact, you can take a beat, your nervous system can regulate, and you know, a minor inconvenience in my personal life doesn't need to push me over the edge because I'm operating in fight or flight like all the time. And that was a pivotal moment in my existence, my role as mother, my role as partner in doing it all as the woman.

SPEAKER_02: 31:24

Gosh, yeah, absolutely. I don't think anyone listening will not be able to relate. I feel it's like ding ding. Yep, that relates, that relates. When you've done the work and you understand what you're like and how you tick and how you operate and what you enjoy and what you don't enjoy, when you work best, when you do the best sort of work as well. I know podcast recordings first thing in the morning or late at night are not great for me because I'm probably, you know, starting to either still wake up or start to wind down. And once you get to know that, then you can really start to implement systems that work around that, can't you? And again, another, a whole other level of magic opens up. And so this is when Hannah and I have different views, but we totally respect. You've mentioned it a few times, that works for you, wouldn't work for me, you know, and vice versa. And gosh, how boring would it be if we're all the same? Let's just celebrate and embrace everyone's uniqueness. It's it's amazing. But I know, for example, that I have to plan in a in advance things like my social media content. I'd do that for a few reasons. One, that it works, and it means I can plan content with purpose that aligns with my business goals, etc. etc. But also for me, I know that doing that on the fly is just not going to work for me because, like I say, my working hours are already quite slim because I do do school drop-off and pickup and whatnot. But also the hours that I work best are actually quite short, and I want to make sure they're focused and purposeful and intentional, like you said. So planning ahead certainly does for me. Now, I am a paper planner, and I have dabbled in electronic and paper, you know, for so long. I've tried both, and I just find it paper for me. It's the whole brain, like I've got pen in my hand as we speak, I'm making notes as we speak. There's something scientific about my brain pen paper connection. There it really is. But I know that you are about Asana in particular. You talk about Asana, don't you? And other sorts of digital systems. And I would love it if you would tell us about what it is you love about digital planning. What are we missing out on if we're not doing digital planning? What am I missing out on? Quick pause from our conversation because I'm wondering how you'd feel if I told you I could give you a free£50 today. Yep, if you've been thinking about moving your business bank account or perhaps you don't have a business bank account yet, I can highly recommend Monzo. And if you open an account with them via the link in today's show notes, you get a free£50. Monzo are free to bank with, I bank with them personally. It's so easy to use, and also they won Best Business Banking Provider in the UK in 2024. So if you don't have a business bank account yet, or you're looking to change from where you are just now to free business banking and£50 in your account, head over to spawbusinessgrowthadicts.com for the link and enjoy.

SPEAKER_01: 34:06

I love this, I love this. I do agree that is something scientific. I mean I'm here with a lip gloss in hand because I have to hold some. But I don't do paper for the most part. And the reason I don't do paper for the most part is that I, in the beginning, before this was created, recognized, sure, I would write stuff down because that's what you do, right? I want to retain information. Would I then go back and look at it? No. Would I then be able to find it? Probably not. And so, of what purpose was that serving me? But that's what we're taught. I can distinctly remember having an argument with my A-level biology teacher. This I've just retrieved this from the archives of my memory here, of her telling me to write down a flowchart of whatever it was in biology we were doing. I don't remember that. And me saying, no, because my brain doesn't work that way. I'm not going to retain the information, nor am I going to come back and look at it. I just don't work that way. We got into a big taboo. It was a huge deal. But in the end, you know, we had a conversation and she was like, it was wrong for me to force you to work in a way that doesn't work for your brain. And I was like, oh wow, okay. And I'm only looking back on that now because I would have been like 16 to be like, you knew something, Hannah, before your time, and here we are. But that's the pattern in behavior I see for myself. And I was seeing it with so many business owners to be like, oh, I need to write this idea down. I need to write this idea down, otherwise I'm gonna forget it. But then do they know where that note, that life-changing note was in the notebook afterwards that they needed to put into practice? Nine times out of 10, no. And so it was causing overwhelm, it was causing stress, it was causing chaos of I can't get my thoughts together. I'm relying on my brain to remember stuff, like mental tabs on mental tabs, like it's chaos and carnage between my brain and my laptop and what have you. And what I really recognized is for the most part, when it comes to working in businesses, a lot of what we do is the same stuff every day, every week, every month. Business is based on habits. Humans are based on habits. And whether you admit it or not, we are wired to be habitual. And now, one of the dirty ways women are screwed over, anybody's screwed over in business, is that we are given this, like, you know, the permission to create freedom and be fluid and rock up and do what we want to do. And so I don't need structure. I don't need structure because, you know, I'm creating freedom, I can just rock up into my business and do what I want to do. Great. If that works for you, fine. But if you recognize that I'm getting overwhelmed, my heart is palping at how much I have to do, I can't sleep at night because my brain is going over and over the things I didn't get done or the random things I'm remembering. People telling me I'm waking in the night thinking, oh my God, I forgot to message that client or invoice for that or like whatever it is. I'm like, this is your body telling you, and your brain telling you, like, we want structure. Your brain is literally wired to close loops. So wherever you're leave, we're leaving stuff open, i.e., tabs in our brain and remembering stuff, your brain is fighting to close it, which means that we are expending energy, whether you know it or not, trying to retain information. And so what I wanted was a way that meant my brain could be free and easy. Because all the while I'm trying to remember stuff, I am limiting the bandwidth to be creative. I'm limiting my bandwidth to think of new ideas, to bring things into fruition, because I'm just working really bloody hard between the notebooks and the tabs of my brain to remember just the basic stuff I have to do. And so where I then talk about Asana, and you know, you could use any system, Asana is just my favorite. It's more the approach and the method that I'm teaching that's the most important thing, is that if you can build the basic habits into your business, into an automated system, your brain doesn't have to work hard to retain and retrieve the information. So this isn't necessarily about the creative process because pen to paper is part of the creative process. And like I would say to any of my clients, if you're creating content or you're storytelling or you're mapping out a new product suite, sure, put pen to paper. But then so what? How does that then link into your daily, weekly, monthly, I'd call it rhythm of the stuff that you need to do in order to move it forward? And I don't want to rely on my brain to remember that stuff because it won't. Because I'm sleep deprived, I'm a mum, I am spinning plates, juggling balls, doing everything for everyone. Like I cannot trust my brain to retrieve every single bit of information, the things that I need to be doing in my business. And so what why am I beating myself up about that? Why don't I just take it from brain, take it from paper, make it exist physically, and make it work for me so that I can then open my laptop, look at Asana, whatever system you're using, and be like, right, today, honey, you've got five things that you need to do. And they're all automated based on their own rhythm. So I can just rock up and be like, bish, bash, bosh, done. Look how much capacity I've got to be creative and look how much time I now have to do what I want to do. And so I'm using a little bit of, you know, my understanding of neuroscience. I'm really interested in how our brains work. I am working with my clients to really understand their unique positioning because when I work with my clients, I offer my framework, but it only works if you feel intrinsically linked to it. And how I get you to be intrinsically linked to it is to understand what's going on in your brain. Crawl into your skin almost and be like, So talk to me about what's happening. Where does your brain go? And let's make it bespoke to fit you. And then my clients coming to me and being like, my brain is free. I'm not scrolling through mental tabs of remembering. I am not working in the evenings anymore because I'm, you know, not in reactive remembering mode, and all of this great, great stuff makes me a happier person because I was very much living in shoulders up here, George clenched, you know, rink of I've got so much to do and I don't know where to start because everything feels a priority, because I was constantly just trying to retrieve what was top of mind from my brain, and our brains aren't built that way.

SPEAKER_02: 40:09

No, and brains are awesome, but we can't remember everything.

SPEAKER_01: 40:12

Scientific fact that I've got in my group programme that's literally like at one point, our brains are only meant to be holding on to 15 bits of information at a time in our short-term memory. Only 15. Now, if I asked any woman to reel off what are all the things you're trying to remember for today, that your ass is more than 15. So no wonder we're like.

SPEAKER_02: 40:35

Yeah. Gosh, yeah. And so really what what you're describing there is what I have as well. The odd electronic thing and various notebooks. But my notebooks are organised like the way you might organise folders within Asana or on your whatever system. So I've got notebooks for training that I've done or stuff to do with my membership or the podcast or whatever. So I can just pluck them out at any point and refer back to a training that I did and scan through and find it. So yeah, there's lots of similarities there. I think this is just personality based, isn't it? Just about getting to know yourself. But at the same time, I do also I still work with Excel spreadsheets, right? And I know that's probably really dated now, but I'm sort of of the opinion if it's not broke, don't fix it, unless there's something that has revolutionary changed that that's going to make that so much quicker. But I do have a spreadsheet of what I call repetitive tasks, and that's all my baseline stuff that needs done every week, no matter what. And I'll go through and, you know, have I done that? It's got times allocated to it as well, rough times. You know, I don't use those times to beat myself up with, I use them as guides so I can plan my day. Usually on a Sunday night, just purely because that's good for me, it feels good for me. I'll open up my planner because of course I created a planner, a social media, a paper planner. So I'll use that to plan my socials and also the notes page to just plan out my week, just jot down all the days. My son quite often has appointments through the week, you know, so the one first day off goes in as well, which is nice. And then I can sort of time block my week because I know how much those repetitive tasks take. I don't know if I'm rambling here. I've got a bit of everything, I guess, on the go, a bit of electronic and paper, but it's just what works for me, and it's just so much of what we've been talking about today. Get to know yourself and what works for you. Like, I learn better writing things down, but at the end of the day, I'm not gonna waste time writing the same stuff every day, every week. So that's why I'm a repetitive task live on a spreadsheet that I just pull up most mornings, really, and just tick off or glance through. Yeah, it's just about what works for you, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 42:38

Totally. Like I would always say any social media advice take with a pinch of salt. Just because it works for one person doesn't mean it's gonna work for another. And that's not a reflection on whether you're gonna be a success or failure. It's just an understanding of this is what I need, this is where I'm at, this is how I work best. But I also as well think it's understanding like what season am I in? I look at business in season. We're in the trenches with small kids at the moment, but it won't be that way forever. So, you know, I will give myself permission to change and adapt how I work based on the season of life that I'm in. And it's also true of like where we see our businesses going. So, where part of the whole process for me of putting businesses digitally is recognizing, okay, so where do you want to take this? And I use my she's ready approach in that success for me is equipping my clients to be ready for anything. And so, for quite a lot of them, that's like, right, am I gonna build a team? Am I gonna open a new store? Am I going to take a maternity leave? These are all live examples of what my clients are going through at the moment. And so, how do I lay the foundation of my business that are going to allow me to do these things and segue beautifully into it rather than being reactive and busy responding at the last minute? So the digital aspect for me is also for the women that are like, I know where I want to go in this next season and I want to have stuff laid. And I do fundamentally believe in the core from having been behind the scenes in so many businesses and the types of women I'm working with, that if it's on paper, it's very difficult to translate and bring other people into your business with you. Or it takes an extra level of reactive work, responsive work. And if we're gonna be bringing people with us into our businesses, we need to have, particularly digitally, the core laid so that we can how are we gonna delegate? How are we gonna communicate? How am I gonna train?

SPEAKER_02: 44:39

I mean, I had to turn a lot of written documents into Google documents, uh, SOP, standard operating procedures once I hired a VA. Because yeah, like how else am I gonna share all that paperwork? So, yeah, absolutely. Some of that does have to have to be turned in to electronic to be emailed or shared in a shared drive or whatever. Yeah, absolutely. If you want to bring other people in, it's much easier to do electronically, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 45:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And there's a lot in there about, you know, how do I build something where I can trust that somebody's doing what I think or what I've asked that they're doing? How do I create the foundation that means I can take time off and I can still see that things are happening and like teach my nervous system? Because you know, we're we like I said, we're habitual creatures, but you know, sometimes there'll be habits that hinder versus habits that help. And it is them recognizing, okay, it is not a helpful habit for me to be a micromanager. So how do we lay the infrastructure and this create the self-leadership tools to say it's safe? I have set this person up for success. I've set myself up for success. I can relinquish control and not busy myself in, you know, hovering round and checking and doing all of this because it defeats the object. So yeah, my digital approach is both meets my needs and the needs of the kind of people that I'm working with. But it's also like to our point about intention and purpose. Like, if you know where you're getting to, let's do the work now because it's gonna make getting there for you and your unique journey a lot more streamlined, a lot more simple than going back to then be like, oh my god, I need to bring somebody in tomorrow when this is hard work and that's what puts so many women off. I wouldn't know where to start. And I'm very much like my approach is that systemised streamlined, but you know, we're gonna kill a couple of birds with one stone and you're you're just gonna be ready. Your business is just gonna be ready for you, for your future, for whatever might come tomorrow, next month, next year, and beyond.

SPEAKER_02: 46:30

Yeah, oh my gosh, Hannah, I feel like we could speak all day. I just want to just keep taking this subject in different areas. So maybe we'll have to have a follow-up episode for this. Because yeah, I feel like there's lots, lots, like even just you know, toxic productivity could come up in there, and oh gosh, so much, so much. But I was wondering if we're speaking out to business owner, mum, partner, friends, particularly sort of female business owner we've been we've been speaking directly to today, what would you say is the most impactful habit they could start today to start bringing in some more ease and efficiency?

SPEAKER_01: 47:07

The starting point I would always say to any woman is of your list right now, which is no doubt endless, is to start recognizing where your tasks are falling. Talk about organizing the overwhelm. So is it something you have to do because your business will die if you don't do it? Is it something you want to do because it lights your soul up and it feels fun and it energizes you? Or is it something you think you should be doing? And anything that when you really analyze, I'm only doing it because they're doing it, or I feel like I should or I've got pressure, acts straight from your list. Straight from your list. Focus your time and attention on those things that you have to do, because we all have stuff we have to do every single day in life and our business, but then put the weight on the things that you want to do because fun is the biggest business strategy, but like I fundamentally believe to my core, like if you are having fun in your business, you are more likely to make it a success. And sustainably, like I don't care what any of the gurus are saying about specific ways of doing it. If you don't find it fun and you don't enjoy it, you're not gonna show up full force with your essence and your fire. So bin it off and focus on the stuff that you love. And I point earlier, get consistent with it and watch the results come in. But watch your happiness propel as well.

SPEAKER_02: 48:29

Yeah, that's really good advice. Yeah, but it does make it a lot easier if it's something that you enjoy. And again, you didn't come into this to start doing tasks that you dread. I mean, surely at the very core of your small business, your business, you should enjoy it. Or why else are you doing it?

SPEAKER_01: 48:44

We're literally maniacs to be here anyway. Like to have gotten to this point and start our own business. Like we are a different breed of woman, and I'm celebrating all of us. But yeah, if you're not having fun anymore, we might as well go and get a job. At least we'd be able to shut the laptop and clock off at five o'clock and then be at home. Fun and joy at the heart of everything.

SPEAKER_02: 49:05

Absolutely. And I think that's an absolutely wonderful note to end our conversation on a hundred percent. We've covered so much that I actually can't wait to listen to this episode back. I definitely will. Yeah, that's been really, really insightful. But I feel if anyone wants to learn more about the what you offer and what you can do, where's the best place to find you, Hannah, to learn more about how you can help our listeners get to that point that we've spoken about today?

SPEAKER_01: 49:31

Yeah, I am chronically online on Instagram. So you'll find me in there. And I do love my Instagram stories, and I do love just, you know, I love to see women win. So I love building relationships in my DMs. So come and slide into my DMs and have a chat.

SPEAKER_02: 49:48

Sure, absolutely. I'll put the link to Hannah's Board of Busy Instagram below. That's the best place to come find you then, have a chat, see what you're all about. You talk a lot about eggs and stories, am I right?

SPEAKER_01: 50:01

I've got a pan over there, like protein, people, protein.

SPEAKER_02: 50:04

Yep, absolutely. We're talking about everything over there. We're all talking about everything on Instagram. Everything, anything goes. That's the hub, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Hannah. That's been a wonderful chat. Lots to take away from that there. As I say, personally can't wait to re-listen as well. I think might we might have to have a follow-up episode to this. We can chat about that offline. Anyone listening today, if you think there's anything you'd like Hannah and I to talk about that we didn't cover today, please let us know. Drop either of us a DM on Instagram. Let us know. We'd be happy to cover that again, I'm sure. Absolutely. Yeah, I know. Like I said, I don't struggle for things to talk about. Yeah. Yeah, it's not on the problem list. Okay, Hannah, I'll let you go at that. You take care.

SPEAKER_01: 50:46

Thank you so much. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_02: 50:49

Thank you so much for joining us today for another episode of Small Business Growth Addicts. I hope today's episode has given you inspiration and tangible tips that you can use to grow your small business in a way that feels right for you. If you love today's episode, please head over to smallbusinessgrowthadicts.com and check out today's show notes where you can find details of our wonderful guests, sponsors, discounts, freebies, and so much more. Please also don't forget to leave a review today. Reviews are invaluable to us to help us get the show out there. Every single one is read and very much appreciated. Until next time.