{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":4.0,"body":"Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":4.0,"endTime":10.12,"body":"Bravery is a living, breathing behavior within your organization because if it is, I'm not"},{"startTime":10.12,"endTime":15.98,"body":"suggesting everybody all day is going around saying things to each other and creating chaos,"},{"startTime":15.98,"endTime":20.26,"body":"but you want to ensure, and if I was the owner of an organization, I would want to ensure"},{"startTime":20.26,"endTime":24.24,"body":"that if somebody said something to somebody that they thought was hard to say or would"},{"startTime":24.24,"endTime":30.82,"body":"be hard for that person to hear and it impacted that person favorably, I'd be thrilled."},{"startTime":30.82,"endTime":31.82,"body":"That's what I want."},{"startTime":31.82,"endTime":33.32,"body":"I don't want people hiding things."},{"startTime":33.32,"endTime":34.8,"body":"I don't want them playing games."},{"startTime":34.8,"endTime":38.58,"body":"I don't want them avoiding somebody because they don't like working with them."},{"startTime":38.58,"endTime":44.72,"body":"Whatever it might be that we do today that adds expense to our organization because we're"},{"startTime":44.72,"endTime":48.92,"body":"grinding our wheels and not making great progress."},{"startTime":48.92,"endTime":54.2,"body":"Those are just some of the things, Peter, that you could do to start looking for ways"},{"startTime":54.2,"endTime":55.92,"body":"to grow bravery at your organization."},{"startTime":55.92,"endTime":57.8,"body":"It's not like flicking a switch."},{"startTime":57.8,"endTime":64.64,"body":"It takes time and stories and experiences, oftentimes from the top down, demonstrating"},{"startTime":64.64,"endTime":75.16,"body":"ways to be brave at work."},{"startTime":75.16,"endTime":77.84,"body":"Hello and welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":77.84,"endTime":83.28,"body":"I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, joined by my brother, Peter Stewart, for another episode"},{"startTime":83.28,"endTime":89.28,"body":"as we talk about tips and tools to help elevate your leadership journey."},{"startTime":89.28,"endTime":95.76,"body":"Today we are honored to have quite a special guest, Ed Evarts."},{"startTime":95.76,"endTime":96.88,"body":"That's right, folks."},{"startTime":96.88,"endTime":98.8,"body":"Let me read his official bio."},{"startTime":98.8,"endTime":99.8,"body":"You ready?"},{"startTime":99.8,"endTime":107.76,"body":"Ed Evarts is the president and founder of Excellius Leadership Development and the author of three"},{"startTime":107.76,"endTime":114.12,"body":"books – that's right, folks – including his most recent, The Bravery Trick, Four Easy"},{"startTime":114.12,"endTime":117.2,"body":"Ways to Say Hard Things."},{"startTime":117.2,"endTime":125.48,"body":"Ed is also the host of Be Brave at Work, a podcast focused on bravery in the workplace."},{"startTime":125.48,"endTime":130.94,"body":"Ed, welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":130.94,"endTime":132.76,"body":"Thank you, Daniel and Peter."},{"startTime":132.76,"endTime":133.76,"body":"Thrilled to be here."},{"startTime":133.76,"endTime":134.76,"body":"Thanks for joining us, Ed."},{"startTime":134.76,"endTime":135.76,"body":"This is great."},{"startTime":135.76,"endTime":138.24,"body":"This is great to have some wonderful insight."},{"startTime":138.24,"endTime":141.04,"body":"This is our first interview with somebody else."},{"startTime":141.04,"endTime":143.36,"body":"Daniel and I have just been talking on episodes"},{"startTime":143.36,"endTime":148.2,"body":"so in the words of my dad, this is a historic moment."},{"startTime":148.2,"endTime":149.2,"body":"[Laughter]"},{"startTime":149.2,"endTime":150.76,"body":"Historic."},{"startTime":150.76,"endTime":155.52,"body":"Ed, thanks because sometimes it's a boring thing here."},{"startTime":155.52,"endTime":156.52,"body":"No, not really."},{"startTime":156.52,"endTime":158.88,"body":"But anyway, no, it's a pleasure."},{"startTime":158.88,"endTime":164.12,"body":"Glad you can be joining, especially as we can talk about such an interesting and important"},{"startTime":164.12,"endTime":166.4,"body":"topic of bravery."},{"startTime":166.4,"endTime":168.8,"body":"Now you've devoted a lot of time and attention to this."},{"startTime":168.8,"endTime":175.96,"body":"So let me start off with a question to you."},{"startTime":175.96,"endTime":177.88,"body":"What is bravery to you?"},{"startTime":177.88,"endTime":182.08,"body":"And why really has it been such an attractive thing?"},{"startTime":182.08,"endTime":187.12,"body":"What's been so attractive for you that you've wanted to focus so much on this?"},{"startTime":187.12,"endTime":193.6,"body":"Well, let me answer the second part of the question first, if I can, Daniel, which is"},{"startTime":193.6,"endTime":198.44,"body":"bravery is something that has been with all of us throughout our whole lives."},{"startTime":198.44,"endTime":204.44,"body":"And oftentimes we look back at experiences in the workplace and regret how we behaved,"},{"startTime":204.44,"endTime":208.0,"body":"how we didn't say something we should have said, how we didn't do something we should"},{"startTime":208.0,"endTime":209.0,"body":"have done."},{"startTime":209.0,"endTime":214.28,"body":"And we look back and we wonder why and, you know, have this real deep feeling of regret."},{"startTime":214.28,"endTime":216.88,"body":"So this is something that's been with me throughout my career."},{"startTime":216.88,"endTime":222.6,"body":"And I have many examples personally of times where I was not as brave as I could have been"},{"startTime":222.6,"endTime":224.28,"body":"for a number of reasons."},{"startTime":224.28,"endTime":229.84,"body":"And I was sitting across from a colleague at a Starbucks, of course, and he and I had"},{"startTime":229.84,"endTime":235.22,"body":"worked together 20 years ago and he was starting a podcast production company and he asked"},{"startTime":235.22,"endTime":236.64,"body":"what I wanted to talk about."},{"startTime":236.64,"endTime":239.76,"body":"And my instant answer was being brave at work."},{"startTime":239.76,"endTime":244.8,"body":"And so for me, the definition of bravery is really saying something that you find very"},{"startTime":244.8,"endTime":250.04,"body":"hard to say or that you believe will be hard for the other person to hear."},{"startTime":250.04,"endTime":251.04,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":251.04,"endTime":254.48,"body":"So it's something that's very hard for you to figure out how to articulate and say to"},{"startTime":254.48,"endTime":260.04,"body":"somebody or you think even if you say it beautifully, it'll be very hard for them to hear."},{"startTime":260.04,"endTime":267.08,"body":"And so this feeling of constraint comes to us because we find we don't have the bravery"},{"startTime":267.08,"endTime":271.48,"body":"to say something that we think would be very, very helpful."},{"startTime":271.48,"endTime":273.16,"body":"Thanks for giving us that insight, Ed."},{"startTime":273.16,"endTime":278.52,"body":"And as you elaborated and really starting on that feeling of regret."},{"startTime":278.52,"endTime":284.32,"body":"And in many ways, it sounds like as we have the courage to make those brave statements,"},{"startTime":284.32,"endTime":290.8,"body":"to say those brave things in those situations, in some ways it's trying to help avoid that"},{"startTime":290.8,"endTime":296.36,"body":"future feeling of regret of, \"Oh, I could have or I should have, or if I would have"},{"startTime":296.36,"endTime":300.68,"body":"said it differently, then maybe this opportunity would have happened or this feedback could"},{"startTime":300.68,"endTime":301.68,"body":"have been given better.\""},{"startTime":301.68,"endTime":307.44,"body":"And so it's guiding us so that we can really avoid those feelings of regret, which frankly,"},{"startTime":307.44,"endTime":309.72,"body":"I don't think anybody enjoys."},{"startTime":309.72,"endTime":312.64,"body":"Well, nobody enjoys."},{"startTime":312.64,"endTime":317.84,"body":"And that's a key theme of the book, Peter, which is oftentimes if we don't say something"},{"startTime":317.84,"endTime":322.12,"body":"to somebody that would help them and they find out about it later, one of the first"},{"startTime":322.12,"endTime":325.16,"body":"things that's going to come to their mind is, \"Why didn't you say something?\""},{"startTime":325.16,"endTime":326.16,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":326.16,"endTime":329.04,"body":"\"Gee, I could have avoided this for years if you had said something.\""},{"startTime":329.04,"endTime":334.0,"body":"And this is where this whole complexity around bravery and relationships and helpfulness"},{"startTime":334.0,"endTime":335.0,"body":"come in."},{"startTime":335.0,"endTime":340.88,"body":"So Daniel Pink wrote a book, I think last year, two years ago, called The Power of Regret."},{"startTime":340.88,"endTime":345.16,"body":"And in that book, he suggests that regret is always going to be part of our lives, that"},{"startTime":345.16,"endTime":350.68,"body":"none of us can avoid feeling regret from time to time, either professionally or personally,"},{"startTime":350.68,"endTime":355.16,"body":"and that it's good because when you feel regret, you actually learn from what it was"},{"startTime":355.16,"endTime":359.12,"body":"that you didn't do the way that you thought you should have done it and avoid it."},{"startTime":359.12,"endTime":360.12,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":360.12,"endTime":363.6,"body":"So you figure out how can I get better at this so I don't avoid it?"},{"startTime":363.6,"endTime":366.56,"body":"So regret, I'm not suggesting in my book, is bad."},{"startTime":366.56,"endTime":371.08,"body":"I'm just suggesting that it's something we feel when we think about bravery, that"},{"startTime":371.08,"endTime":375.8,"body":"we oftentimes will think back and say, \"Wow, I really said something and I feel great about"},{"startTime":375.8,"endTime":376.8,"body":"it.\""},{"startTime":376.8,"endTime":380.76,"body":"But more often than not, and something we all share as human beings, is a feeling of"},{"startTime":380.76,"endTime":385.28,"body":"regret, not saying something that was hard to say or not saying something because I thought"},{"startTime":385.28,"endTime":387.0,"body":"it would be hard for you to hear."},{"startTime":387.0,"endTime":388.0,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":388.0,"endTime":394.4,"body":"And isn't that interesting, what you were saying in terms of you want to tell somebody"},{"startTime":394.4,"endTime":400.34,"body":"something and if you didn't, they might later on say, \"Hey, don't you care about me?"},{"startTime":400.34,"endTime":401.68,"body":"You should have told me.\""},{"startTime":401.68,"endTime":406.56,"body":"And yet, that might be the very reason why you didn't say it because you wanted to"},{"startTime":406.56,"endTime":407.56,"body":"be nice."},{"startTime":407.56,"endTime":408.8,"body":"You didn't want to hurt their feelings."},{"startTime":408.8,"endTime":412.72,"body":"You didn't want to cause them momentary discomfort."},{"startTime":412.72,"endTime":420.28,"body":"So Ed, what have you found are some of the reasons why people avoid or put off being"},{"startTime":420.28,"endTime":424.2,"body":"brave or having that kind of courage?"},{"startTime":424.2,"endTime":427.96,"body":"The number of reasons are endless and it's very complex."},{"startTime":427.96,"endTime":432.64,"body":"I'll give you what I consider to be the top three, and these are not in order, but"},{"startTime":432.64,"endTime":436.6,"body":"one is political, that I didn't want to say something because I need you to be my"},{"startTime":436.6,"endTime":440.96,"body":"friend at work and I was afraid if I said something, it might have a negative impact"},{"startTime":440.96,"endTime":444.6,"body":"on our relationship and so I just decided not to say anything."},{"startTime":444.6,"endTime":448.88,"body":"I could be completely wrong, but it's this feeling of I want to maintain whatever we"},{"startTime":448.88,"endTime":453.32,"body":"have and being honest and candid with you about something might damage that."},{"startTime":453.32,"endTime":458.1,"body":"And so I don't demonstrate bravery by saying something that I should say."},{"startTime":458.1,"endTime":462.3,"body":"The second tends to be around the lines of relationships and so relationships in the"},{"startTime":462.3,"endTime":466.4,"body":"workplace are super important and I think it's really only been in the last 10 years"},{"startTime":466.4,"endTime":472.64,"body":"or so that really the significance of relationships has become more and more obvious to people."},{"startTime":472.64,"endTime":478.0,"body":"We're slowly moving from a hierarchical workplace, the classic IBM office where there were 50"},{"startTime":478.0,"endTime":482.04,"body":"people at a desk and the vice president would walk into the back office and close the door"},{"startTime":482.04,"endTime":485.08,"body":"and they would all be working, working, working."},{"startTime":485.08,"endTime":486.24,"body":"Doesn't exist any longer."},{"startTime":486.24,"endTime":490.96,"body":"Right? Now it's relationships, who I know and how I know them. And I'm really concerned"},{"startTime":490.96,"endTime":496.64,"body":"that if I say something it will have a negative impact on my career and on the relationships"},{"startTime":496.64,"endTime":498.8,"body":"that are so important to me in the workplace."},{"startTime":498.8,"endTime":505.2,"body":"And the third reason is a little bit deeper, which is we have not been raised in any culture"},{"startTime":505.2,"endTime":509.64,"body":"and in an environment, especially in the United States of America, where we have been taught"},{"startTime":509.64,"endTime":513.02,"body":"to be candid and constructive with each other."},{"startTime":513.02,"endTime":515.08,"body":"There are no classes that teach us how to be brave."},{"startTime":515.08,"endTime":520.32,"body":"I mean, there are some here and there in colleges and you can sign up for a program, but we've"},{"startTime":520.32,"endTime":525.4,"body":"been taught to respect others, to respect our elders, to do what your parents say, and"},{"startTime":525.4,"endTime":528.38,"body":"that doesn't allow us room to be brave."},{"startTime":528.38,"endTime":533.64,"body":"So we have culturally been raised to not be brave with each other, even if it means I"},{"startTime":533.64,"endTime":534.64,"body":"can help you."},{"startTime":534.64,"endTime":535.64,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":535.64,"endTime":539.4,"body":"If I know there's something I want to tell you that I believe could help you, I still"},{"startTime":539.4,"endTime":545.58,"body":"avoid it for all of these complex reasons that have impacted me throughout my life."},{"startTime":545.58,"endTime":547.44,"body":"Those are great explanations, Ed."},{"startTime":547.44,"endTime":553.16,"body":"And as you say that, particularly the latter one, it caused me to actually think about"},{"startTime":553.16,"endTime":559.12,"body":"a question I wanted to ask you, and maybe it's because of the cultural training I've"},{"startTime":559.12,"endTime":561.84,"body":"been raised in, in this country."},{"startTime":561.84,"endTime":571.64,"body":"Because I think of being brave and being candid, of is there bravery by not saying something?"},{"startTime":571.64,"endTime":577.56,"body":"Cab you basically take being brave too far, and when is it that really you're trying to"},{"startTime":577.56,"endTime":582.04,"body":"be brave, but ultimately you're just being rude or obnoxious or you shouldn't have said"},{"startTime":582.04,"endTime":584.04,"body":"it anyway?"},{"startTime":584.04,"endTime":590.08,"body":"Well, most of the work that I have done has been around how to be brave."},{"startTime":590.08,"endTime":593.96,"body":"And I can tell you from personal experience as well as professional experience, it doesn't"},{"startTime":593.96,"endTime":598.56,"body":"mean you always say what you're thinking, always with respect and professionalism."},{"startTime":598.56,"endTime":603.84,"body":"So that's another core aspect of the work, which is if I want to be brave with you, there"},{"startTime":603.84,"endTime":607.84,"body":"are times when I do it, there are times when I don't do it."},{"startTime":607.84,"endTime":609.76,"body":"We need to ensure that we have a relationship."},{"startTime":609.76,"endTime":614.16,"body":"I can't just walk up to you and say, \"Hey, we just met, can I tell you something?\""},{"startTime":614.16,"endTime":616.16,"body":"Because I don't even know who you are."},{"startTime":616.16,"endTime":618.72,"body":"So it's very important on that front."},{"startTime":618.72,"endTime":624.2,"body":"So without having done the research, I will tell you, similar to risk, there are things"},{"startTime":624.2,"endTime":628.92,"body":"that we need to do that are risky and there are things to do that we don't do because"},{"startTime":628.92,"endTime":630.72,"body":"it would be risky to do it."},{"startTime":630.72,"endTime":634.76,"body":"So it kind of works both ways in respect to bravery as well."},{"startTime":634.76,"endTime":636.88,"body":"There are times where you need to be brave."},{"startTime":636.88,"endTime":641.06,"body":"There are times where you need to think about, is this the right place and way to be brave"},{"startTime":641.06,"endTime":642.06,"body":"with this person?"},{"startTime":642.06,"endTime":643.24,"body":"Maybe I do it later."},{"startTime":643.24,"endTime":648.84,"body":"Maybe I see if this is a pattern of behavior versus coming in once, whatever it might be."},{"startTime":648.84,"endTime":655.36,"body":"But I would assume, Peter, that there are a number of places and situations where being"},{"startTime":655.36,"endTime":658.28,"body":"brave is just not appropriate at that time."},{"startTime":658.28,"endTime":664.68,"body":"So we're not giving a license for being brave all the time, regardless of the implications."},{"startTime":664.68,"endTime":666.72,"body":"There is an intentional calculation."},{"startTime":666.72,"endTime":668.92,"body":"Nobody has that license."},{"startTime":668.92,"endTime":675.84,"body":"Well, you're making me think of how many executives we've coached over the years that will say,"},{"startTime":675.84,"endTime":678.36,"body":"\"Hey, I'm just being honest."},{"startTime":678.36,"endTime":680.16,"body":"I'm being authentic."},{"startTime":680.16,"endTime":682.52,"body":"I'm being candid.\""},{"startTime":682.52,"endTime":688.88,"body":"Whatever kind of attribute is termed on this, and you can sit back and the person was not"},{"startTime":688.88,"endTime":690.04,"body":"being respectful."},{"startTime":690.04,"endTime":691.52,"body":"They were blasting."},{"startTime":691.52,"endTime":693.68,"body":"They were just going straight at it."},{"startTime":693.68,"endTime":699.96,"body":"It was almost like a unilateral comment versus actually helping the other person in some"},{"startTime":699.96,"endTime":700.96,"body":"ways."},{"startTime":700.96,"endTime":706.84,"body":"Ed, as you're hearing this, what guidance do you have to help people feel a sense of"},{"startTime":706.84,"endTime":714.56,"body":"authenticity, that yes, they need to express, but how do they kind of couch their comments"},{"startTime":714.56,"endTime":720.92,"body":"in an aspect of respect still while being brave?"},{"startTime":720.92,"endTime":724.92,"body":"In the book, we talk about four behaviors that you want to practice."},{"startTime":724.92,"endTime":728.52,"body":"Nobody's ever going to be perfect at all of them, but you want to practice in order to"},{"startTime":728.52,"endTime":730.4,"body":"increase the likelihood you will be brave."},{"startTime":730.4,"endTime":736.22,"body":"I'm not suggesting by any stretch of the imagination that you will now be brave always."},{"startTime":736.22,"endTime":739.96,"body":"But the fourth one has to do with something called flexibility, which means if I want"},{"startTime":739.96,"endTime":743.6,"body":"to talk to you, Daniel, about something that I think you need to hear that you would regret"},{"startTime":743.6,"endTime":747.98,"body":"me not saying years from now if I don't say it now, I need to be flexible that I don't"},{"startTime":747.98,"endTime":748.98,"body":"have the answer."},{"startTime":748.98,"endTime":753.1,"body":"I'm not going to tell you, \"Oh, here's what you should have done and you didn't.\""},{"startTime":753.1,"endTime":756.44,"body":"We need to talk a little bit about it to see what works best for you."},{"startTime":756.44,"endTime":760.84,"body":"There may be information or examples that have influenced and directed you in certain"},{"startTime":760.84,"endTime":765.92,"body":"ways that led you to do what you do or how you do it that's required somebody to be brave"},{"startTime":765.92,"endTime":766.92,"body":"with you."},{"startTime":766.92,"endTime":770.72,"body":"So that executive you're mentioning who just comes at it and just says, \"Hey, I'm just"},{"startTime":770.72,"endTime":776.2,"body":"being honest,\" isn't necessarily exhibiting some of the behaviors you need in order to"},{"startTime":776.2,"endTime":779.6,"body":"be successful, which is, of course, helping people."},{"startTime":779.6,"endTime":784.2,"body":"Being candid and not helping you is not bravery."},{"startTime":784.2,"endTime":789.6,"body":"That's other things that probably have less favorable names, but it's not helping you."},{"startTime":789.6,"endTime":791.28,"body":"You need to be respectful."},{"startTime":791.28,"endTime":796.52,"body":"I need to respect who you are, why you're doing what you're doing, the reasons you're"},{"startTime":796.52,"endTime":797.52,"body":"doing what you're doing."},{"startTime":797.52,"endTime":801.52,"body":"I want to be respectful for you and always professional."},{"startTime":801.52,"endTime":805.48,"body":"If somebody comes to you very professionally to speak to you about something, your likelihood"},{"startTime":805.48,"endTime":810.04,"body":"of speaking to them is significantly greater than somebody who's disrespectful."},{"startTime":810.04,"endTime":811.74,"body":"This is not about belittling."},{"startTime":811.74,"endTime":813.8,"body":"This is not about patronizing."},{"startTime":813.8,"endTime":816.28,"body":"This is not about making you feel wrong."},{"startTime":816.28,"endTime":821.62,"body":"These are all the things that we put into our heads that avoid bravery."},{"startTime":821.62,"endTime":826.52,"body":"This is about helping you be more aware of something that will allow you to be increasingly"},{"startTime":826.52,"endTime":830.6,"body":"successful in whatever you're doing, both personally and professionally, by the way."},{"startTime":830.6,"endTime":833.44,"body":"It's not just work-related, but personally as well."},{"startTime":833.44,"endTime":836.96,"body":"We are all avoiding something in our lives right now."},{"startTime":836.96,"endTime":841.32,"body":"I'm sure I could pick both of you and say, \"Okay, what are you avoiding saying to somebody"},{"startTime":841.32,"endTime":843.2,"body":"for a variety of reasons?\""},{"startTime":843.2,"endTime":849.4,"body":"I think we all have those types of things that we need to figure out a way how to say"},{"startTime":849.4,"endTime":854.72,"body":"respectfully and professionally so that it helps the person grow and evolve."},{"startTime":854.72,"endTime":860.4,"body":"I think there's an element, as I was listening to you share that, Ed, of it sounded like"},{"startTime":860.4,"endTime":864.84,"body":"you were making this distinction that could be very helpful to our listeners as they're"},{"startTime":864.84,"endTime":867.96,"body":"contemplating situations of being brave."},{"startTime":867.96,"endTime":873.2,"body":"One is it sounds like when you're trying to be brave in terms of sharing an observation"},{"startTime":873.2,"endTime":880.16,"body":"or sharing some feedback as opposed to brave in suggesting a solution."},{"startTime":880.16,"endTime":886.72,"body":"That's maybe where the arrogance or the \"Yep, I know exactly what you should be doing\""},{"startTime":886.72,"endTime":893.56,"body":"tone, which we may want to avoid, but it's really more that former of, \"Here's an observation"},{"startTime":893.56,"endTime":900.12,"body":"I'm noticing and the impact it might be having on others,\" and then allowing that solution"},{"startTime":900.12,"endTime":905.8,"body":"maybe to be discussed together as opposed to, \"Here's what you should do to fix it,"},{"startTime":905.8,"endTime":910.2,"body":"you idiot,\" type of thing."},{"startTime":910.2,"endTime":915.04,"body":"You're reminding me of a model that my wife and I created in respect to our two daughters."},{"startTime":915.04,"endTime":919.76,"body":"This doesn't necessarily have to do with bravery, but our daughters would call us and tell us"},{"startTime":919.76,"endTime":923.88,"body":"all about an issue that they're dealing with and we would jump right to solution."},{"startTime":923.88,"endTime":925.04,"body":"They would be like, \"You know what?"},{"startTime":925.04,"endTime":926.56,"body":"I'm not looking for what to do."},{"startTime":926.56,"endTime":928.0,"body":"I just wanted to share it with you.\""},{"startTime":928.0,"endTime":929.36,"body":"I said, \"You know what?"},{"startTime":929.36,"endTime":933.72,"body":"Anytime our daughters call, we need to ask them, 'Are you looking for feedback or are"},{"startTime":933.72,"endTime":936.0,"body":"you looking to listen?'\""},{"startTime":936.0,"endTime":938.0,"body":"Sometimes it's, \"I just need you to listen.\""},{"startTime":938.0,"endTime":942.28,"body":"It's similar to what you're saying, Peter, which is, \"Just because I want to say something"},{"startTime":942.28,"endTime":947.04,"body":"to you that I believe would be helpful doesn't mean I have the answer."},{"startTime":947.04,"endTime":950.08,"body":"It doesn't mean I'm going to come in and tell you, 'And oh, by the way, this is what you"},{"startTime":950.08,"endTime":951.08,"body":"should do about it.'\""},{"startTime":951.08,"endTime":954.94,"body":"I might have some ideas and I should come prepared with ideas, but again, this is why"},{"startTime":954.94,"endTime":960.4,"body":"the fourth step of the model is flexibility, which is not putting pressure on yourself"},{"startTime":960.4,"endTime":962.7,"body":"that you also have to have the answer."},{"startTime":962.7,"endTime":963.98,"body":"This is a lot like coaching."},{"startTime":963.98,"endTime":964.98,"body":"I do coaching."},{"startTime":964.98,"endTime":967.2,"body":"I think you both do coaching to some degree."},{"startTime":967.2,"endTime":969.16,"body":"I'm not going to tell you the answer."},{"startTime":969.16,"endTime":972.4,"body":"I might have an idea of what the answer might be and maybe I've been down this road so many"},{"startTime":972.4,"endTime":977.0,"body":"times I have a good idea what the answer should be, but I want to first see if you can get"},{"startTime":977.0,"endTime":978.44,"body":"there."},{"startTime":978.44,"endTime":983.08,"body":"For someone to come up with their own solution that's close to yours and take action, they're"},{"startTime":983.08,"endTime":989.3,"body":"going to own way more than having no idea and not giving any mental capital to it and"},{"startTime":989.3,"endTime":991.3,"body":"having someone else give them the answer."},{"startTime":991.3,"endTime":994.16,"body":"Even though they might do it, they're not going to be as invested in it because they"},{"startTime":994.16,"endTime":998.52,"body":"didn't come up on it on their own."},{"startTime":998.52,"endTime":1004.12,"body":"Helping people expand their thinking and focus on what some options might be, to me, is a"},{"startTime":1004.12,"endTime":1006.68,"body":"huge win."},{"startTime":1006.68,"endTime":1007.68,"body":"You're making me think."},{"startTime":1007.68,"endTime":1016.28,"body":"A client several years ago, he was an executive leader with a large financial institution."},{"startTime":1016.28,"endTime":1021.44,"body":"He's one of the most coachable executives that I've worked with."},{"startTime":1021.44,"endTime":1029.32,"body":"He was so willing to listen, whether it was good, bad, ugly, whatever, from any source"},{"startTime":1029.32,"endTime":1035.72,"body":"and take it and genuinely look at it and then apply it and consider it."},{"startTime":1035.72,"endTime":1041.28,"body":"And so Ed, as you're hearing this example, and I'm sure you have other examples that is coming"},{"startTime":1041.28,"endTime":1046.72,"body":"to your mind, how do we receive bravery well?"},{"startTime":1046.72,"endTime":1051.28,"body":"Because we've been talking thus far in terms of how to give it and the importance about it and"},{"startTime":1051.28,"endTime":1054.2,"body":"why it might prevent it."},{"startTime":1054.2,"endTime":1058.32,"body":"But on the other side of it, if we're brave to somebody, that means somebody has just been"},{"startTime":1058.32,"endTime":1061.44,"body":"braved to."},{"startTime":1061.44,"endTime":1066.8,"body":"How do you receive bravery well in your experience, Ed?"},{"startTime":1066.8,"endTime":1072.0,"body":"In the book I've written that will be coming out May 14th of this year, we talk a little"},{"startTime":1072.0,"endTime":1075.72,"body":"bit about what to do if someone is being brave with you."},{"startTime":1075.72,"endTime":1078.8,"body":"Daniel, you've already touched on some of them."},{"startTime":1078.8,"endTime":1082.88,"body":"First of all, it has to be somebody that you have a relationship with so that the conversation"},{"startTime":1082.88,"endTime":1083.88,"body":"is not adversarial."},{"startTime":1083.88,"endTime":1086.56,"body":"Now, that's not always going to be the case."},{"startTime":1086.56,"endTime":1090.52,"body":"Sometimes you're going to need to say, \"Hey, Daniel, I know we don't have a great relationship"},{"startTime":1090.52,"endTime":1093.9,"body":"and ever since I started, we seem to have been at odds, but I need to share something with"},{"startTime":1093.9,"endTime":1096.08,"body":"you that I think would be helpful.\""},{"startTime":1096.08,"endTime":1102.72,"body":"It doesn't preclude you from being helpful, but you need to recognize the arena that you're"},{"startTime":1102.72,"endTime":1103.72,"body":"kind of operating in."},{"startTime":1103.72,"endTime":1109.28,"body":"In order to be a receiver of that feedback, you've already touched on a couple of them."},{"startTime":1109.28,"endTime":1111.24,"body":"One, you have to be a great listener."},{"startTime":1111.24,"endTime":1113.8,"body":"You have to listen to what the person is saying."},{"startTime":1113.8,"endTime":1116.8,"body":"You have to understand what the person is saying."},{"startTime":1116.8,"endTime":1120.4,"body":"Anytime somebody is brave with us, there's kind of an emotional wall that goes up."},{"startTime":1120.4,"endTime":1125.72,"body":"It's like defensiveness, \"Oh, no, you're wrong,\" or \"We're going to debate this and argue this.\""},{"startTime":1125.72,"endTime":1131.4,"body":"I think Stephen Covey might have said, \"More often we listen to respond than listen to"},{"startTime":1131.4,"endTime":1135.0,"body":"understand, and we really need to focus on understanding.\""},{"startTime":1135.0,"endTime":1138.64,"body":"Second, we need to focus on curiosity, which is, \"Well, help me understand when you're"},{"startTime":1138.64,"endTime":1139.8,"body":"seeing this."},{"startTime":1139.8,"endTime":1143.72,"body":"Why do you think this is a negative and a big impact to me?"},{"startTime":1143.72,"endTime":1145.44,"body":"Why should I even listen to you?"},{"startTime":1145.44,"endTime":1148.44,"body":"Why is this so relevant to me as a listener?\""},{"startTime":1148.44,"endTime":1153.2,"body":"And then the third thing, in my perfect world, is somebody then focusing on next steps."},{"startTime":1153.2,"endTime":1155.04,"body":"\"Okay, so I hear what you're saying."},{"startTime":1155.04,"endTime":1158.44,"body":"I don't know if I agree with what you're saying or not, but what are you saying it should"},{"startTime":1158.44,"endTime":1160.0,"body":"look like?"},{"startTime":1160.0,"endTime":1163.44,"body":"What is it that I could have done that would not have led you to be here today?"},{"startTime":1163.44,"endTime":1165.32,"body":"Because that's what I need to know."},{"startTime":1165.32,"endTime":1169.68,"body":"I can beat you up as much as I want on why you're not doing something that you should"},{"startTime":1169.68,"endTime":1174.52,"body":"be doing, but I'm still not talking at that point about what it should look like.\""},{"startTime":1174.52,"endTime":1178.8,"body":"The number one thing you need to leave any of these conversations with is, \"Well, what"},{"startTime":1178.8,"endTime":1184.16,"body":"does the better or improved or more evolved behavior look like?\""},{"startTime":1184.16,"endTime":1188.4,"body":"You've got to ensure that that's included in the conversation, or else it would have"},{"startTime":1188.4,"endTime":1192.68,"body":"been great to talk with somebody, but you really didn't get anywhere in respect to why"},{"startTime":1192.68,"endTime":1194.88,"body":"you went to see them in the first place."},{"startTime":1194.88,"endTime":1195.88,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1195.88,"endTime":1198.8,"body":"And I'll just piggyback on that."},{"startTime":1198.8,"endTime":1202.04,"body":"The focus on curiosity, I love it."},{"startTime":1202.04,"endTime":1207.48,"body":"Years ago, somebody asked me, \"Well, do you know the opposite of curiosity?\""},{"startTime":1207.48,"endTime":1215.12,"body":"And I sat there for a moment, and they challenged me, which I appreciated, and it is judgment."},{"startTime":1215.12,"endTime":1222.04,"body":"Once you then slip into the judging mode, judging of the person or the situation, right"},{"startTime":1222.04,"endTime":1228.02,"body":"or wrong, you moralize it, you put good and bad on it, something, you quickly shift away"},{"startTime":1228.02,"endTime":1231.32,"body":"from the curious, which is, \"Oh, what can I learn?"},{"startTime":1231.32,"endTime":1236.96,"body":"Well, that's interesting,\" at least from a neutral perspective, just kind of appreciate."},{"startTime":1236.96,"endTime":1244.16,"body":"And it's that key decision that so often is like, \"Are we in judgment mode or curiosity"},{"startTime":1244.16,"endTime":1245.16,"body":"mode?\""},{"startTime":1245.16,"endTime":1250.32,"body":"And I don't know about you, both of you and our listeners, as you're going from Zoom call"},{"startTime":1250.32,"endTime":1258.0,"body":"or Teams call every half hour, every hour, it's easy to remain judgment, task-focused,"},{"startTime":1258.0,"endTime":1264.44,"body":"get-stuff-done mode, versus like, \"No, no, no, how do I shift, get into more of a coaching"},{"startTime":1264.44,"endTime":1267.4,"body":"mindset, getting more of a curiosity mindset?\""},{"startTime":1267.4,"endTime":1272.68,"body":"Whatever word you want to frame up, but it's that reminder, which is so powerful."},{"startTime":1272.68,"endTime":1280.96,"body":"Well, there's a great clip on Instagram these days from Ted Lasso, where he's playing darts"},{"startTime":1280.96,"endTime":1283.12,"body":"with his arch enemy."},{"startTime":1283.12,"endTime":1289.04,"body":"And as he's playing darts, he is talking about the importance of being more curious, because"},{"startTime":1289.04,"endTime":1294.18,"body":"if you had been more curious, you might have had a better insight into whether I am a good"},{"startTime":1294.18,"endTime":1298.92,"body":"dart player or not, which, of course, he is a phenomenal dart player, but his arch enemy"},{"startTime":1298.92,"endTime":1304.2,"body":"had no idea because he was all focused on the task and winning and didn't care at all"},{"startTime":1304.2,"endTime":1306.28,"body":"about Ted, but all himself."},{"startTime":1306.28,"endTime":1308.9,"body":"So I completely agree."},{"startTime":1308.9,"endTime":1314.4,"body":"When I work with leaders, things like listening, curiosity, treating people with dignity and"},{"startTime":1314.4,"endTime":1320.44,"body":"respect are all key behaviors that leaders have to have in order to be successful."},{"startTime":1320.44,"endTime":1326.04,"body":"Leadership is very complicated, multiple things on multiple days and multiple times, but listening,"},{"startTime":1326.04,"endTime":1330.2,"body":"curiosity, dignity are things that have to be there always."},{"startTime":1330.2,"endTime":1335.76,"body":"So helpful to be hearing about these perspectives and just to pull on that thought of curiosity"},{"startTime":1335.76,"endTime":1336.76,"body":"a little longer."},{"startTime":1336.76,"endTime":1344.04,"body":"I remember an article I read of an interview with Brian Grazer several years ago, executive"},{"startTime":1344.04,"endTime":1349.4,"body":"producer of so many hit movies, Beautiful Mind, Apollo 13, obviously an individual very"},{"startTime":1349.4,"endTime":1351.32,"body":"successful in his profession."},{"startTime":1351.32,"endTime":1357.12,"body":"And the interviewer asked him to what does he attribute his success."},{"startTime":1357.12,"endTime":1358.88,"body":"And he paused and thought for a minute."},{"startTime":1358.88,"endTime":1362.52,"body":"He said, \"You know, I think it really comes down to the fact that I'm just curious about"},{"startTime":1362.52,"endTime":1363.52,"body":"people."},{"startTime":1363.52,"endTime":1364.88,"body":"I love hearing their stories."},{"startTime":1364.88,"endTime":1367.52,"body":"I want to hear where they're coming from.\""},{"startTime":1367.52,"endTime":1368.52,"body":"That one."},{"startTime":1368.52,"endTime":1373.16,"body":"So that was the one attribute that he really kind of hung his success on."},{"startTime":1373.16,"endTime":1375.8,"body":"So I think we can all learn from that."},{"startTime":1375.8,"endTime":1381.76,"body":"So as we dive into thinking a little more about bravery in the workplace, Ed, how can"},{"startTime":1381.76,"endTime":1389.52,"body":"we, recognizing now the benefits of bravery, how can we inject that a little bit more in"},{"startTime":1389.52,"endTime":1393.2,"body":"the workplace?"},{"startTime":1393.2,"endTime":1399.96,"body":"So it's always hard in a workplace to create a culture and an environment that embraces"},{"startTime":1399.96,"endTime":1401.02,"body":"certain behaviors."},{"startTime":1401.02,"endTime":1406.32,"body":"So first you want to probably identify, you know, is bravery something that exists within"},{"startTime":1406.32,"endTime":1410.88,"body":"the organization and exists in a tangible way?"},{"startTime":1410.88,"endTime":1414.96,"body":"For us and potentially for many of our listeners, we've heard of something called psychological"},{"startTime":1414.96,"endTime":1419.24,"body":"safety over the last five to eight years and the importance of psychological safety."},{"startTime":1419.24,"endTime":1421.72,"body":"I'm a huge psychological safety fan."},{"startTime":1421.72,"endTime":1425.76,"body":"That requires bravery to speak up and not feel judged and belittled."},{"startTime":1425.76,"endTime":1430.76,"body":"So you want to get a sense of whether or not the organization supports it or not."},{"startTime":1430.76,"endTime":1432.68,"body":"Two, you certainly want to start small."},{"startTime":1432.68,"endTime":1436.36,"body":"That whole thing about act locally, think globally."},{"startTime":1436.36,"endTime":1442.36,"body":"So act locally and respect it, demonstrating bravery on your own, because when it works,"},{"startTime":1442.36,"endTime":1443.72,"body":"people will want to emulate it."},{"startTime":1443.72,"endTime":1447.84,"body":"And they'll say, \"Wow, Ed said something to me that was hard for me to hear, but it really"},{"startTime":1447.84,"endTime":1448.84,"body":"helped me."},{"startTime":1448.84,"endTime":1453.16,"body":"I think I could speak to Daniel about this and see if it can help him as well.\""},{"startTime":1453.16,"endTime":1457.88,"body":"So you want to first kind of get a sense to the degree that it exists within your company."},{"startTime":1457.88,"endTime":1459.6,"body":"Second, emulate it."},{"startTime":1459.6,"endTime":1463.36,"body":"And then again, in the book, we talk about a number of things that you can do in respect"},{"startTime":1463.36,"endTime":1469.52,"body":"to training, reward systems, bonuses, all sorts of things that you can do to ensure"},{"startTime":1469.52,"endTime":1474.34,"body":"bravery is a living, breathing behavior within your organization."},{"startTime":1474.34,"endTime":1479.5,"body":"Because if it is, I'm not suggesting everybody all day is going around saying things to each"},{"startTime":1479.5,"endTime":1485.06,"body":"other and creating chaos, but you want to ensure, and if I was the owner of an organization,"},{"startTime":1485.06,"endTime":1488.56,"body":"I would want to ensure that if somebody said something to somebody that they thought was"},{"startTime":1488.56,"endTime":1494.62,"body":"hard to say or would be hard for that person to hear, and it impacted that person favorably,"},{"startTime":1494.62,"endTime":1496.5,"body":"I'd be thrilled."},{"startTime":1496.5,"endTime":1497.5,"body":"That's what I want."},{"startTime":1497.5,"endTime":1498.98,"body":"I don't want people hiding things."},{"startTime":1498.98,"endTime":1500.46,"body":"I don't want them playing games."},{"startTime":1500.46,"endTime":1504.26,"body":"I don't want them avoiding somebody because they don't like working with them."},{"startTime":1504.26,"endTime":1510.22,"body":"Whatever it might be that we do today, that adds expense to our organization, right?"},{"startTime":1510.22,"endTime":1514.58,"body":"Because we're grinding our wheels and not making great progress."},{"startTime":1514.58,"endTime":1519.6,"body":"Those are just some of the things, Peter, that you could do to start looking for ways"},{"startTime":1519.6,"endTime":1521.58,"body":"to grow bravery in your organization."},{"startTime":1521.58,"endTime":1523.46,"body":"It's not like flicking a switch."},{"startTime":1523.46,"endTime":1530.3,"body":"It takes time and stories and experiences, oftentimes from the top down, demonstrating"},{"startTime":1530.3,"endTime":1534.18,"body":"ways to be brave at work."},{"startTime":1534.18,"endTime":1541.06,"body":"And as we take that from an organizational idea, let's talk for a moment in terms of"},{"startTime":1541.06,"endTime":1544.02,"body":"what that looks like at the team level."},{"startTime":1544.02,"endTime":1550.78,"body":"Because oftentimes, we do a lot of, as you do as well, Ed, we all work with teams and"},{"startTime":1550.78,"endTime":1557.02,"body":"try to help them become more cohesive, try to help them be able to communicate more transparently"},{"startTime":1557.02,"endTime":1558.9,"body":"and more candidly."},{"startTime":1558.9,"endTime":1565.42,"body":"And I'll often say, if the real conversation is happening outside of the team meeting,"},{"startTime":1565.42,"endTime":1567.02,"body":"you don't have a team."},{"startTime":1567.02,"endTime":1572.38,"body":"We want to have the real conversation happening within the team itself."},{"startTime":1572.38,"endTime":1577.5,"body":"And essentially, that's enabling those brave behaviors."},{"startTime":1577.5,"endTime":1583.38,"body":"And so, if somebody is on a team that maybe has a level of dysfunction, maybe it has a"},{"startTime":1583.38,"endTime":1590.94,"body":"pattern of not being as candid, what are the types of approaches or techniques that somebody"},{"startTime":1590.94,"endTime":1594.9,"body":"could do to be able to start?"},{"startTime":1594.9,"endTime":1595.9,"body":"What can…"},{"startTime":1595.9,"endTime":1598.78,"body":"Because, you know, that's sticking your neck out."},{"startTime":1598.78,"endTime":1602.3,"body":"And that can then cause some potential challenge."},{"startTime":1602.3,"endTime":1608.3,"body":"As you think of a team, though, any other comments within that team environment of starting"},{"startTime":1608.3,"endTime":1614.74,"body":"that bravery conversation, whether it's received well or not, at least short term?"},{"startTime":1614.74,"endTime":1616.94,"body":"What are your thoughts on that, Ed?"},{"startTime":1616.94,"endTime":1618.58,"body":"Well, you're right."},{"startTime":1618.58,"endTime":1623.54,"body":"I have worked with teams like that, as I'm sure the two of you have."},{"startTime":1623.54,"endTime":1627.38,"body":"And I will just tell you personally, from the work that I do, I typically start with"},{"startTime":1627.38,"endTime":1628.38,"body":"the team leader."},{"startTime":1628.38,"endTime":1631.18,"body":"So, you know, most teams have a team leader."},{"startTime":1631.18,"endTime":1633.48,"body":"It usually is the most senior person in the room."},{"startTime":1633.48,"endTime":1636.42,"body":"It may not always be, but start with the team leader."},{"startTime":1636.42,"endTime":1640.38,"body":"I have to investigate whether or not bravery, amongst other things."},{"startTime":1640.38,"endTime":1643.14,"body":"So I don't know that I would always start with bravery."},{"startTime":1643.14,"endTime":1646.94,"body":"And I don't know that I would only talk about bravery."},{"startTime":1646.94,"endTime":1652.82,"body":"To me, it's all about team behavior and getting a better sense of how the team has"},{"startTime":1652.82,"endTime":1654.34,"body":"agreed to behave."},{"startTime":1654.34,"endTime":1659.66,"body":"So in psychological safety and other works that have been produced, you know, coming"},{"startTime":1659.66,"endTime":1663.86,"body":"up with a team behavior agreement is super critical, right?"},{"startTime":1663.86,"endTime":1668.42,"body":"Because to your point, even if I have something I want to say, and it's brilliant, you know,"},{"startTime":1668.42,"endTime":1672.42,"body":"I might not say it because I think it's going to be like a stone in the water, and it's"},{"startTime":1672.42,"endTime":1674.82,"body":"not going to make me look good, and it's going to get us distracted."},{"startTime":1674.82,"endTime":1678.54,"body":"So it's not part of our team behavior to speak up and say these things."},{"startTime":1678.54,"endTime":1680.5,"body":"So I'm just not going to do it."},{"startTime":1680.5,"endTime":1684.42,"body":"It's so much easier to not do something than it is to do something, right?"},{"startTime":1684.42,"endTime":1688.48,"body":"So it's easy to not say something than say something and not have to deal with everything"},{"startTime":1688.48,"endTime":1689.48,"body":"that comes with it."},{"startTime":1689.48,"endTime":1694.54,"body":"So to me, Daniel, just to answer your question briefly, I would start with the team owner,"},{"startTime":1694.54,"endTime":1700.16,"body":"the team manager, the team lead, work with them to identify expectations, meet with each"},{"startTime":1700.16,"endTime":1704.38,"body":"of the team members individually, and then focus with the team to come up with what I"},{"startTime":1704.38,"endTime":1708.74,"body":"call a roadmap, which are agreed upon behaviors."},{"startTime":1708.74,"endTime":1712.7,"body":"They almost typically come up with a very similar roadmap team to team to team, even"},{"startTime":1712.7,"endTime":1717.16,"body":"though they're from different companies, on things that they're looking for and expecting."},{"startTime":1717.16,"endTime":1722.26,"body":"And almost always one of them is the ability to say something at the team meeting that"},{"startTime":1722.26,"endTime":1729.86,"body":"is helpful and respectful, but may not be popular or the way everyone's leaning, right?"},{"startTime":1729.86,"endTime":1731.54,"body":"Without feeling belittled or judged."},{"startTime":1731.54,"endTime":1734.3,"body":"Again, a key component of psychological safety."},{"startTime":1734.3,"endTime":1736.06,"body":"Yeah, great points."},{"startTime":1736.06,"endTime":1737.06,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":1737.06,"endTime":1738.06,"body":"That's awesome."},{"startTime":1738.06,"endTime":1743.58,"body":"I love how you're just expanding our thoughts as we're thinking about bravery in the workplace,"},{"startTime":1743.58,"endTime":1747.22,"body":"as we thought about it at the individual conversation level."},{"startTime":1747.22,"endTime":1751.1,"body":"So think about it in the team level, we think about it at the organization level."},{"startTime":1751.1,"endTime":1756.16,"body":"So I want to look at relationships a little bit here, as we've touched on a few times"},{"startTime":1756.16,"endTime":1758.68,"body":"already in this conversation."},{"startTime":1758.68,"endTime":1764.96,"body":"As a team member, let's say there's something that I want to be able to say to my team leader,"},{"startTime":1764.96,"endTime":1771.86,"body":"to my supervisor, but I'm fearful of saying it because of that power differential."},{"startTime":1771.86,"endTime":1778.3,"body":"What recommendation, what advice would you give to me in that situation as I'm striving"},{"startTime":1778.3,"endTime":1784.54,"body":"to be brave, but a part of me is scared to death?"},{"startTime":1784.54,"endTime":1786.14,"body":"Which is very common, by the way."},{"startTime":1786.14,"endTime":1788.38,"body":"We even see this publicly and politically, right?"},{"startTime":1788.38,"endTime":1792.9,"body":"People doing stuff that others don't know why they're doing it, because it seems like"},{"startTime":1792.9,"endTime":1795.82,"body":"they're just afraid to say something."},{"startTime":1795.82,"endTime":1800.72,"body":"The first thing I would ask that client is on a scale of one to six, how is your relationship"},{"startTime":1800.72,"endTime":1801.94,"body":"with your boss?"},{"startTime":1801.94,"endTime":1806.54,"body":"And to me, if it's a four or higher, you're in a position where you could probably say"},{"startTime":1806.54,"endTime":1810.7,"body":"something that might be hard for that person to hear, again, one of the definitions of"},{"startTime":1810.7,"endTime":1813.86,"body":"bravery in a way that might help them."},{"startTime":1813.86,"endTime":1818.38,"body":"If it's a three or lower, I would suggest that they first need to work on having a good"},{"startTime":1818.38,"endTime":1819.38,"body":"relationship."},{"startTime":1819.38,"endTime":1825.54,"body":"Your likelihood of being successful is significantly increased if we have a good relationship."},{"startTime":1825.54,"endTime":1827.12,"body":"It's just that simple."},{"startTime":1827.12,"endTime":1830.82,"body":"If we don't have a good relationship, I might not even be listening, right?"},{"startTime":1830.82,"endTime":1833.98,"body":"I'm shaking my head, \"Yep, yep,\" and in my head I'm going, \"How much longer is he going"},{"startTime":1833.98,"endTime":1835.3,"body":"to be in my office?"},{"startTime":1835.3,"endTime":1839.5,"body":"I've got other things to do today,\" and then I leave and I move on and I didn't even hear"},{"startTime":1839.5,"endTime":1842.1,"body":"anything that you had to say."},{"startTime":1842.1,"endTime":1849.1,"body":"In the book and in the work that we do, ensuring that you have a strong relationship with others"},{"startTime":1849.1,"endTime":1852.42,"body":"is super critical."},{"startTime":1852.42,"endTime":1857.32,"body":"Maybe a whole other topic or a whole other book might be around the importance of good"},{"startTime":1857.32,"endTime":1858.68,"body":"relationships in the workplace."},{"startTime":1858.68,"endTime":1861.0,"body":"I'm not talking about being someone everyone likes."},{"startTime":1861.0,"endTime":1865.68,"body":"I'm not talking about being the most favorite person that anyone ever works with, but having"},{"startTime":1865.68,"endTime":1870.94,"body":"good relationships where we help each other, we're candid with each other, all to help"},{"startTime":1870.94,"endTime":1875.84,"body":"your career and the impact of the work that you're doing and your organization is super,"},{"startTime":1875.84,"endTime":1876.84,"body":"super helpful."},{"startTime":1876.84,"endTime":1877.84,"body":"Yeah, fantastic."},{"startTime":1877.84,"endTime":1882.4,"body":"Okay, as we wrap up here, are you ready?"},{"startTime":1882.4,"endTime":1883.56,"body":"This is lightning round."},{"startTime":1883.56,"endTime":1888.2,"body":"I'll ask one question and then you can answer it, and then Peter will ask another, then"},{"startTime":1888.2,"endTime":1889.2,"body":"we'll wrap up."},{"startTime":1889.2,"endTime":1894.48,"body":"So here we go."},{"startTime":1894.48,"endTime":1897.48,"body":"Here's my question."},{"startTime":1897.48,"endTime":1903.8,"body":"What is the main reason why we should be brave at work?"},{"startTime":1903.8,"endTime":1909.2,"body":"The main reason you should be brave at work is for emotional development, right?"},{"startTime":1909.2,"endTime":1914.2,"body":"This isn't just about helping other people, but it's also helping you be a better leader."},{"startTime":1914.2,"endTime":1919.16,"body":"That senior executive you talked about a while ago would be a much better senior leader if"},{"startTime":1919.16,"endTime":1923.64,"body":"they were brave with people in ways that were respectful and helpful."},{"startTime":1923.64,"endTime":1924.92,"body":"It helps their career."},{"startTime":1924.92,"endTime":1927.82,"body":"It helps their personal and professional development."},{"startTime":1927.82,"endTime":1929.02,"body":"It helps everyone."},{"startTime":1929.02,"endTime":1934.5,"body":"And so that's, to me, one of the key reasons on why to be brave at work."},{"startTime":1934.5,"endTime":1935.5,"body":"That's great."},{"startTime":1935.5,"endTime":1936.88,"body":"So helpful to have that."},{"startTime":1936.88,"endTime":1942.8,"body":"Okay, lightning question for me is, what is the one tip you would give somebody who might"},{"startTime":1942.8,"endTime":1950.04,"body":"be a little more conflict-averse in their quest to be brave?"},{"startTime":1950.04,"endTime":1955.76,"body":"So not only have we been raised in a culture that doesn't train bravery, we have also been"},{"startTime":1955.76,"endTime":1960.36,"body":"raised in a culture that teaches us how to be conflict-averse, right?"},{"startTime":1960.36,"endTime":1966.04,"body":"So conflict avoidance is a common behavior with the vast majority of folks that I work"},{"startTime":1966.04,"endTime":1967.04,"body":"with."},{"startTime":1967.04,"endTime":1971.04,"body":"So when I think about conflict, it's a very heavy word, right?"},{"startTime":1971.04,"endTime":1976.44,"body":"When we even hear that word, our body energy feels heavy in respect to it."},{"startTime":1976.44,"endTime":1980.24,"body":"And so most of the time when people think about a conversation that they think might"},{"startTime":1980.24,"endTime":1984.88,"body":"be conflict-existent, they come up with the reasons not to say it, right?"},{"startTime":1984.88,"endTime":1986.48,"body":"Their head just bubbles with, \"Well, I'm not going to say it."},{"startTime":1986.48,"endTime":1987.48,"body":"I'm not going to say it."},{"startTime":1987.48,"endTime":1988.48,"body":"I'm not going to say it.\""},{"startTime":1988.48,"endTime":1993.08,"body":"So my one tip to somebody is spend time thinking about why you should say something, right?"},{"startTime":1993.08,"endTime":1997.56,"body":"I mean, there are always going to be reasons why it's challenging, but what are the reasons"},{"startTime":1997.56,"endTime":1999.64,"body":"that it will be good for you to say something?"},{"startTime":1999.64,"endTime":2003.66,"body":"What are the benefits of you saying something to somebody helpfully and respectfully and"},{"startTime":2003.66,"endTime":2008.54,"body":"professionally that will help them bring greater awareness around something they're doing that"},{"startTime":2008.54,"endTime":2011.44,"body":"may not be popular or maybe having a negative impact?"},{"startTime":2011.44,"endTime":2015.92,"body":"So focus on the reasons why to do it, and your likelihood of doing it is going to be"},{"startTime":2015.92,"endTime":2016.92,"body":"greater."},{"startTime":2016.92,"endTime":2018.88,"body":"Yeah, well summed up."},{"startTime":2018.88,"endTime":2023.16,"body":"Okay, as we're wrapping up, Ed, May 14th."},{"startTime":2023.16,"endTime":2029.0,"body":"What's happening on May 14th, and how can we get a copy of the book?"},{"startTime":2029.0,"endTime":2031.08,"body":"Well a lot's happening on May 14th."},{"startTime":2031.08,"endTime":2035.88,"body":"So The Bravery Trick is being published on May 14th."},{"startTime":2035.88,"endTime":2039.0,"body":"It'll be available on Amazon and Barnes \u0026 Noble."},{"startTime":2039.0,"endTime":2044.12,"body":"You can get it either of those sites, or you can go to my website, excellius.com."},{"startTime":2044.12,"endTime":2049.52,"body":"And just to put in a small plug, we'll also be hosting our in-person book launch at a"},{"startTime":2049.52,"endTime":2056.32,"body":"beautiful hotel in Somerville, Massachusetts, and having book copies available for signature"},{"startTime":2056.32,"endTime":2060.96,"body":"as well as hearing from a couple of folks about bravery in the workplace."},{"startTime":2060.96,"endTime":2061.96,"body":"That's awesome."},{"startTime":2061.96,"endTime":2062.96,"body":"Bravery Trick."},{"startTime":2062.96,"endTime":2064.84,"body":"Check it out, everybody."},{"startTime":2064.84,"endTime":2068.6,"body":"Ed, thank you so much for being part of Leadership Growth Podcast today."},{"startTime":2068.6,"endTime":2069.6,"body":"It's been a pleasure."},{"startTime":2069.6,"endTime":2072.6,"body":"Peter, Daniel, thank you so much for having me."},{"startTime":2072.6,"endTime":2073.6,"body":"Thanks, Ed."},{"startTime":2073.6,"endTime":2074.6,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":2074.6,"endTime":2081.0,"body":"Okay, folks, everyone of the listeners, please like and subscribe in the future to the Leadership"},{"startTime":2081.0,"endTime":2085.28,"body":"Growth Podcast, and we look forward to having you on another episode."},{"startTime":2085.28,"endTime":2086.28,"body":"Take care, everyone."},{"startTime":2086.28,"endTime":2088.26,"body":"Good luck on your leadership journey."},{"startTime":2088.26,"endTime":2092.8,"body":"If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague, or better yet,"},{"startTime":2092.8,"endTime":2096.06,"body":"leave a review to help other listeners find our show."},{"startTime":2096.06,"endTime":2099.6,"body":"And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":2099.6,"endTime":2103.58,"body":"For more great content or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership can help you grow your"},{"startTime":2103.58,"endTime":2107.72,"body":"ability to lead effectively, please visit stewartleadership.com."}]}