{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.001,"endTime":3.88,"body":"Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":3.88,"endTime":7.64,"body":"- Nature is moving all the time, you just can't see it."},{"startTime":7.64,"endTime":11.28,"body":"It's changing constantly and companies are prone"},{"startTime":11.28,"endTime":14.34,"body":"to wanting to optimize what they do."},{"startTime":14.34,"endTime":18.96,"body":"They find a business model, they narrow it down."},{"startTime":18.96,"endTime":23.9,"body":"It's like finding a pond in a desert."},{"startTime":23.9,"endTime":27.32,"body":"You find all these animals gravitating toward that resource."},{"startTime":27.32,"endTime":28.24,"body":"That's what a company does."},{"startTime":28.24,"endTime":31.08,"body":"They gravitate, their business model gravitates to that pond"},{"startTime":31.08,"endTime":32.92,"body":"and they exploit it as much as possible"},{"startTime":32.92,"endTime":36.24,"body":"until it's all gone and then they go, then they die."},{"startTime":36.24,"endTime":40.6,"body":"If they were really smart, they would evolve themselves"},{"startTime":40.6,"endTime":43.52,"body":"all with using that pond's resources"},{"startTime":43.52,"endTime":45.92,"body":"to change who they are constantly"},{"startTime":45.92,"endTime":48.64,"body":"so they can find other ponds further away"},{"startTime":48.64,"endTime":50.2,"body":"and further away and further away."},{"startTime":50.2,"endTime":57.78,"body":"(upbeat music)"},{"startTime":57.28,"endTime":60.94,"body":"- Hey everyone, welcome to another episode"},{"startTime":60.94,"endTime":62.78,"body":"of Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":62.78,"endTime":66.66,"body":"I'm Daniel Stewart, joined by my brother, Peter Stewart"},{"startTime":66.66,"endTime":68.94,"body":"and today we are honored."},{"startTime":68.94,"endTime":72.8,"body":"Honored to have a fantastic guest, Ron Amodeo,"},{"startTime":72.8,"endTime":75.94,"body":"and I'll formally read his full bio in a moment"},{"startTime":75.94,"endTime":79.8,"body":"but Ron, welcome to the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":79.8,"endTime":82.68,"body":"- Thanks, glad to be here."},{"startTime":82.68,"endTime":86.16,"body":"- So just so that all listeners know who Ron is,"},{"startTime":86.16,"endTime":88.38,"body":"let me share a little bit about his background,"},{"startTime":88.38,"endTime":91.04,"body":"especially 'cause this introduces well"},{"startTime":91.04,"endTime":93.48,"body":"the topic that we're gonna be diving into today."},{"startTime":93.48,"endTime":97.74,"body":"Ron Amodeo serves as Chief Strategy Officer"},{"startTime":97.74,"endTime":100.34,"body":"for UC Davis Health."},{"startTime":100.34,"endTime":102.82,"body":"He oversees strategic planning, business development"},{"startTime":102.82,"endTime":105.74,"body":"and execution, enterprise project management,"},{"startTime":105.74,"endTime":108.22,"body":"performance improvement, market analytics,"},{"startTime":108.22,"endTime":110.96,"body":"strategy intelligence, community integration,"},{"startTime":110.96,"endTime":114.6,"body":"health ventures and payer contracting."},{"startTime":114.6,"endTime":117.68,"body":"Before joining UC Davis Health in 2020,"},{"startTime":117.68,"endTime":121.82,"body":"he was an expert advisor with Dorsey Health Strategies,"},{"startTime":121.82,"endTime":125.34,"body":"Chief Innovation and Growth Officer at Regional Health,"},{"startTime":125.34,"endTime":128.54,"body":"now Monument Health in Rapid City, South Dakota"},{"startTime":128.54,"endTime":131.04,"body":"and Director of Business Development"},{"startTime":131.04,"endTime":134.46,"body":"at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota."},{"startTime":134.46,"endTime":137.84,"body":"Mr. Amodeo holds a Master's in Information Design"},{"startTime":137.84,"endTime":140.1,"body":"from Carnegie Mellon University"},{"startTime":140.1,"endTime":143.0,"body":"and a Bachelor's in Biology and English"},{"startTime":143.0,"endTime":146.48,"body":"from Allegheny College with doctoral studies"},{"startTime":146.48,"endTime":149.46,"body":"in history of science and technology"},{"startTime":149.46,"endTime":152.5,"body":"from the University of Minnesota."},{"startTime":152.5,"endTime":153.62,"body":"There you go, folks."},{"startTime":153.62,"endTime":157.64,"body":"Did you hear that fantastic level of experience?"},{"startTime":157.64,"endTime":161.92,"body":"Because all of this then weaves together"},{"startTime":161.92,"endTime":164.4,"body":"onto the topic that we have today."},{"startTime":164.4,"endTime":166.6,"body":"So again, Ron, welcome."},{"startTime":166.6,"endTime":169.96,"body":"This is exciting and let's dive in."},{"startTime":169.96,"endTime":174.76,"body":"The topic of nature and how nature relates"},{"startTime":174.76,"endTime":178.4,"body":"as informed by strategy and vice versa."},{"startTime":178.4,"endTime":182.66,"body":"What is that relationship between nature and strategy"},{"startTime":182.66,"endTime":185.96,"body":"and no doubt how leaders then show up,"},{"startTime":185.96,"endTime":189.48,"body":"how we lead is gonna be influenced by some of this."},{"startTime":189.48,"endTime":193.04,"body":"So Ron, as we've talked about this topic before,"},{"startTime":193.04,"endTime":194.56,"body":"give us a high level."},{"startTime":194.56,"endTime":199.56,"body":"As you hear this idea of nature and strategy,"},{"startTime":199.84,"endTime":201.0,"body":"there's so much conversation"},{"startTime":201.0,"endTime":204.28,"body":"around making good strategic choices."},{"startTime":204.28,"endTime":208.04,"body":"Give us a foundational viewpoint"},{"startTime":208.04,"endTime":210.2,"body":"of how these two topics relate."},{"startTime":210.2,"endTime":212.96,"body":"- Yeah, happy to."},{"startTime":212.96,"endTime":215.04,"body":"Thanks for the question."},{"startTime":215.04,"endTime":219.88,"body":"So let me start with how this idea emerged."},{"startTime":219.88,"endTime":223.56,"body":"I had quite a background before I went to Mayo Clinic."},{"startTime":223.56,"endTime":225.76,"body":"I was involved in startups"},{"startTime":225.76,"endTime":230.06,"body":"and a lot of consulting in retail and manufacturing."},{"startTime":230.06,"endTime":232.76,"body":"And at the same time I was working on my PhD"},{"startTime":232.76,"endTime":234.36,"body":"at the University of Minnesota."},{"startTime":234.36,"endTime":237.44,"body":"So I would go back and forth between the business world"},{"startTime":237.44,"endTime":240.16,"body":"and into the history of science world,"},{"startTime":240.16,"endTime":243.64,"body":"particularly the history of biology and evolution."},{"startTime":243.64,"endTime":247.54,"body":"And I began to see some really deep parallels"},{"startTime":247.54,"endTime":252.54,"body":"between the theories and facts that were in science"},{"startTime":253.68,"endTime":257.44,"body":"and the strategies that were in business."},{"startTime":257.44,"endTime":261.08,"body":"In fact, if people could think back to in the day"},{"startTime":261.08,"endTime":263.84,"body":"when the company Saturn existed,"},{"startTime":263.84,"endTime":268.84,"body":"it was a car company that was going nowhere"},{"startTime":268.84,"endTime":271.88,"body":"inside of General Motors for years."},{"startTime":271.88,"endTime":273.42,"body":"And then they had this brilliant idea"},{"startTime":273.42,"endTime":274.92,"body":"to just pick the whole thing up"},{"startTime":274.92,"endTime":278.52,"body":"and move it from Detroit to Tennessee."},{"startTime":278.52,"endTime":279.92,"body":"And wouldn't you know it,"},{"startTime":279.92,"endTime":282.68,"body":"within two years they had a car on the market,"},{"startTime":282.68,"endTime":285.24,"body":"became one of the best-selling cars in America."},{"startTime":285.24,"endTime":288.08,"body":"And I saw that model and I said,"},{"startTime":288.08,"endTime":292.92,"body":"boy, that's exactly what the ornithologist"},{"startTime":292.92,"endTime":297.04,"body":"and paleontologist Ernst Mayr from Harvard said,"},{"startTime":297.04,"endTime":299.42,"body":"when you wanna start a new species,"},{"startTime":299.42,"endTime":304.22,"body":"pick a flock of birds up, move them to an island"},{"startTime":304.22,"endTime":306.4,"body":"really far off the coast,"},{"startTime":306.4,"endTime":310.44,"body":"and they will more or less turn into a new species"},{"startTime":310.44,"endTime":311.96,"body":"after a period of time."},{"startTime":311.96,"endTime":315.48,"body":"So that was the beginning of this."},{"startTime":315.48,"endTime":316.92,"body":"And what I've seen over time"},{"startTime":316.92,"endTime":320.4,"body":"is that there are hundreds and hundreds of examples"},{"startTime":320.4,"endTime":325.4,"body":"of nature and the theories of nature"},{"startTime":325.4,"endTime":327.98,"body":"informing how we do strategy."},{"startTime":327.98,"endTime":330.96,"body":"- Ron, this is fantastic."},{"startTime":330.96,"endTime":333.48,"body":"I mean, there's about a hundred follow up  questions"},{"startTime":333.48,"endTime":335.8,"body":"already in my mind on this one,"},{"startTime":335.8,"endTime":338.72,"body":"especially what you're introducing"},{"startTime":338.72,"endTime":341.52,"body":"is the impact of the environment"},{"startTime":341.52,"endTime":345.16,"body":"and also I'm just picturing people"},{"startTime":345.16,"endTime":349.0,"body":"typically where strategy comes and the conversations"},{"startTime":349.0,"endTime":351.76,"body":"are inevitably in some sort of stale conference room,"},{"startTime":351.76,"endTime":353.6,"body":"I'm generalizing, but you know,"},{"startTime":353.6,"endTime":357.6,"body":"let's have a four-hour meeting in a gray conference room"},{"startTime":357.6,"endTime":358.88,"body":"and talk about this."},{"startTime":358.88,"endTime":361.3,"body":"And what you're introducing, Ron,"},{"startTime":361.3,"endTime":365.96,"body":"is to at least conceptually step out of that conference room"},{"startTime":365.96,"endTime":369.16,"body":"and really pay attention to what has already"},{"startTime":369.16,"endTime":373.6,"body":"been going on for thousands plus millions of years."},{"startTime":373.6,"endTime":377.12,"body":"What can we learn from this to help inform us"},{"startTime":377.12,"endTime":382.08,"body":"as we're making organizational strategic choices as well?"},{"startTime":382.08,"endTime":387.08,"body":"And that's a powerful different perspective to introduce."},{"startTime":387.08,"endTime":389.86,"body":"Any further reaction as you're kind of hearing this"},{"startTime":389.86,"endTime":391.26,"body":"as we're getting going, Ron?"},{"startTime":391.26,"endTime":396.92,"body":"- Yeah, I think, so the post-industrial world business"},{"startTime":396.92,"endTime":399.4,"body":"has been around for a couple hundred years,"},{"startTime":399.4,"endTime":400.24,"body":"getting better and better."},{"startTime":400.24,"endTime":402.2,"body":"And we've seen strategy books come out"},{"startTime":402.2,"endTime":404.5,"body":"in the last hundred years."},{"startTime":404.5,"endTime":408.16,"body":"And then Deming came out in the '70s"},{"startTime":408.16,"endTime":411.14,"body":"and more and more books have come out"},{"startTime":411.14,"endTime":415.52,"body":"which have made the writers famous for strategy."},{"startTime":415.52,"endTime":416.82,"body":"But if you think about it,"},{"startTime":416.82,"endTime":419.14,"body":"nature's been doing their business"},{"startTime":419.14,"endTime":421.84,"body":"for a billion years or more."},{"startTime":421.84,"endTime":424.76,"body":"And especially when with living organisms,"},{"startTime":424.76,"endTime":428.38,"body":"they've had a lot of time to refine their business models."},{"startTime":428.38,"endTime":432.42,"body":"And companies and organisms approach the world"},{"startTime":432.42,"endTime":433.48,"body":"in the same way, right?"},{"startTime":433.48,"endTime":437.96,"body":"Both need to reproduce, both need food to survive."},{"startTime":437.96,"endTime":439.76,"body":"Food in a business world is money, right?"},{"startTime":439.76,"endTime":441.74,"body":"It's some kind of transaction."},{"startTime":441.74,"endTime":445.08,"body":"Both need to grow and both will go extinct."},{"startTime":445.08,"endTime":446.84,"body":"For example, in the last 40 years,"},{"startTime":446.84,"endTime":450.96,"body":"50% of the Fortune 500 company is gone, right?"},{"startTime":450.96,"endTime":455.12,"body":"Well, 99.9% of all species are gone."},{"startTime":455.12,"endTime":459.12,"body":"So extinction is a pretty common element in both worlds."},{"startTime":459.12,"endTime":463.3,"body":"So if parallels start there, where else could they be applied?"},{"startTime":463.3,"endTime":467.08,"body":"- Oh, this is a fascinating notion, Ron,"},{"startTime":467.08,"endTime":469.52,"body":"as we think about trying to apply"},{"startTime":469.52,"endTime":472.88,"body":"so many of these principles that we are observing"},{"startTime":472.88,"endTime":477.14,"body":"in the natural world around us into the business climate."},{"startTime":477.14,"endTime":481.72,"body":"Because fundamentally, nature is striving to survive."},{"startTime":481.72,"endTime":486.32,"body":"Fundamentally, business is striving to survive."},{"startTime":486.32,"endTime":487.34,"body":"And so how do we do that."},{"startTime":487.34,"endTime":489.22,"body":"So as we think about this,"},{"startTime":489.22,"endTime":494.22,"body":"what are some of your favorite examples from nature"},{"startTime":494.22,"endTime":497.38,"body":"and those analogous principles"},{"startTime":497.38,"endTime":500.1,"body":"that we can apply into the business climate?"},{"startTime":500.1,"endTime":504.94,"body":"- Yeah, I know that folks who are listening"},{"startTime":504.94,"endTime":508.66,"body":"have seen innovation happen in companies"},{"startTime":508.66,"endTime":509.94,"body":"in the last 40, 50 years."},{"startTime":509.94,"endTime":513.86,"body":"It's been a dominant theme for companies."},{"startTime":513.86,"endTime":517.32,"body":"And innovation happens in nature all the time."},{"startTime":517.32,"endTime":520.42,"body":"There's many theories of how it happens."},{"startTime":520.42,"endTime":524.18,"body":"A great example, the book written by Stephen Jay Gould,"},{"startTime":524.18,"endTime":528.22,"body":"the Harvard paleontologist, called \"Wonderful Life.\""},{"startTime":528.22,"endTime":532.08,"body":"And he wrote a story about a place called the Burgess Shale,"},{"startTime":532.08,"endTime":537.08,"body":"which is in Yolo National Forest in British Columbia."},{"startTime":537.08,"endTime":542.1,"body":"And what was interesting was this discovery happened,"},{"startTime":542.1,"endTime":550.5,"body":"I should say, the species they discovered"},{"startTime":550.5,"endTime":553.82,"body":"happened before bilateral symmetry,"},{"startTime":553.82,"endTime":555.44,"body":"which is the left and right side of your bodies"},{"startTime":555.44,"endTime":557.44,"body":"are exactly mirror images of each other."},{"startTime":557.44,"endTime":560.64,"body":"Before this was a standard approach in life, right?"},{"startTime":560.64,"endTime":562.86,"body":"It's pretty much everywhere now."},{"startTime":562.86,"endTime":567.34,"body":"But some kind of massive mudslide happened"},{"startTime":567.34,"endTime":570.86,"body":"and it covered all these organisms, he wrote in his book,"},{"startTime":570.86,"endTime":572.2,"body":"and he showed the fossils,"},{"startTime":572.2,"endTime":575.3,"body":"and they were incredibly diverse, right?"},{"startTime":575.3,"endTime":579.18,"body":"Things with seven arms, 15 arms, right?"},{"startTime":579.18,"endTime":581.86,"body":"Life was trying to figure itself out."},{"startTime":581.86,"endTime":583.88,"body":"Well, this happens in companies all the time."},{"startTime":583.88,"endTime":585.94,"body":"When you do innovation, you put a team together,"},{"startTime":585.94,"endTime":590.64,"body":"and the term people use is fail fast, right?"},{"startTime":590.64,"endTime":594.4,"body":"Well, this was a great example of nature failing fast"},{"startTime":594.4,"endTime":599.4,"body":"because within 20 million years, a short time in nature,"},{"startTime":599.4,"endTime":605.72,"body":"they had discovered hard exoskeletons"},{"startTime":605.72,"endTime":607.88,"body":"and had discovered bilateral symmetry"},{"startTime":607.88,"endTime":610.92,"body":"and had discovered eyesight and things like that."},{"startTime":610.92,"endTime":613.32,"body":"And those things just now repeat"},{"startTime":614.2,"endTime":619.02,"body":"through millions of years down to the present day."},{"startTime":619.02,"endTime":621.98,"body":"So companies, as they try to do innovation,"},{"startTime":621.98,"endTime":626.66,"body":"find themselves reinventing this model of failing fast."},{"startTime":626.66,"endTime":627.98,"body":"Every time you go to a new company,"},{"startTime":627.98,"endTime":629.86,"body":"they're like, \"Well, we're starting an innovation group.\""},{"startTime":629.86,"endTime":631.14,"body":"They don't learn from nature."},{"startTime":631.14,"endTime":634.58,"body":"They could simply just model what nature has done"},{"startTime":634.58,"endTime":635.9,"body":"around experimentation"},{"startTime":635.9,"endTime":639.62,"body":"and get through many different opportunities very quickly."},{"startTime":640.5,"endTime":644.24,"body":"- Okay, Ron, let's take this to the next level here"},{"startTime":644.24,"endTime":648.22,"body":"because this notion of modeling after nature."},{"startTime":648.22,"endTime":650.68,"body":"All right, if there was a client"},{"startTime":650.68,"endTime":652.64,"body":"that came to all three of us, okay?"},{"startTime":652.64,"endTime":655.54,"body":"Say we just started an innovation consulting firm."},{"startTime":655.54,"endTime":656.92,"body":"They came to us and said,"},{"startTime":656.92,"endTime":661.68,"body":"\"Hey, we need to be innovative about a new product,\""},{"startTime":661.68,"endTime":663.64,"body":"or we needed that something."},{"startTime":663.64,"endTime":667.86,"body":"What would we suggest based on nature?"},{"startTime":667.86,"endTime":670.3,"body":"What steps what approaches,"},{"startTime":670.3,"endTime":671.48,"body":"'cause what I'm hearing from you"},{"startTime":671.48,"endTime":675.74,"body":"is it's this balance between the familiar"},{"startTime":675.74,"endTime":678.0,"body":"that oftentimes we will gravitate to,"},{"startTime":678.0,"endTime":681.2,"body":"and yet we need to introduce some novelty"},{"startTime":681.2,"endTime":682.92,"body":"and it's balancing this."},{"startTime":682.92,"endTime":684.6,"body":"What are the steps from nature then"},{"startTime":684.6,"endTime":687.4,"body":"that we can draw from to help us"},{"startTime":687.4,"endTime":690.56,"body":"with a helpful innovation approach?"},{"startTime":690.56,"endTime":693.88,"body":"- Yeah, well, the funny thing is,"},{"startTime":693.88,"endTime":696.72,"body":"innovation's happening all around us, not just in nature."},{"startTime":696.72,"endTime":698.96,"body":"And I'll give you some examples."},{"startTime":698.96,"endTime":703.96,"body":"But if you look at a species that has a territory, right?"},{"startTime":703.96,"endTime":707.72,"body":"Pick a certain kind of Kaibab deer"},{"startTime":707.72,"endTime":710.86,"body":"down in the Grand Canyon, for example, right?"},{"startTime":710.86,"endTime":715.86,"body":"Or the polar bear, it has a territory, right?"},{"startTime":715.86,"endTime":718.82,"body":"In the middle of that territory,"},{"startTime":718.82,"endTime":722.54,"body":"where there's the fewest amount of constraints,"},{"startTime":722.54,"endTime":725.14,"body":"the bear will not change very much."},{"startTime":725.14,"endTime":728.7,"body":"But if you go to the boundaries of their territory,"},{"startTime":728.7,"endTime":730.6,"body":"where there's a lot of constraints,"},{"startTime":730.6,"endTime":735.36,"body":"and you see this with fish and you see this with plants,"},{"startTime":735.36,"endTime":738.26,"body":"there's stress on those species."},{"startTime":738.26,"endTime":741.86,"body":"And that's where you see a lot of mortality"},{"startTime":741.86,"endTime":743.74,"body":"and a lot of evolution is happening."},{"startTime":743.74,"endTime":746.76,"body":"And so the innovation is happening at the boundaries."},{"startTime":746.76,"endTime":751.4,"body":"And if you look at two countries where their borders meet,"},{"startTime":751.4,"endTime":754.58,"body":"that's where the pigeon languages are emerging, right?"},{"startTime":754.58,"endTime":757.74,"body":"It's not happening in the middle of the country."},{"startTime":757.74,"endTime":760.86,"body":"If you look at a market,"},{"startTime":760.86,"endTime":762.3,"body":"two markets that are coming together,"},{"startTime":762.3,"endTime":764.8,"body":"you see all the innovation happening there."},{"startTime":764.8,"endTime":768.02,"body":"Two eras, like you think about the eras between music,"},{"startTime":768.02,"endTime":770.34,"body":"Baroque music and classical music."},{"startTime":770.34,"endTime":773.26,"body":"All of this change happened in a few decades"},{"startTime":773.26,"endTime":774.74,"body":"when they clashed together, right?"},{"startTime":774.74,"endTime":777.52,"body":"So if you wanna do it in a company,"},{"startTime":777.52,"endTime":779.36,"body":"if we're a consulting firm,"},{"startTime":779.36,"endTime":782.94,"body":"you would probably go to that company's boundaries"},{"startTime":782.94,"endTime":786.74,"body":"and say, \"Well, what products do you have"},{"startTime":786.74,"endTime":790.38,"body":"that are doing something new in a different market"},{"startTime":790.38,"endTime":795.38,"body":"or testing a new idea and/or design differently?\""},{"startTime":795.38,"endTime":799.26,"body":"And you would spend all your time"},{"startTime":799.26,"endTime":801.5,"body":"at the edge of that company, not inside,"},{"startTime":801.5,"endTime":802.7,"body":"not in the middle of it."},{"startTime":802.7,"endTime":807.9,"body":"- This is a helpful framework to think about."},{"startTime":807.9,"endTime":812.02,"body":"And I love that thought of the innovations"},{"startTime":812.02,"endTime":813.3,"body":"happen on the boundaries."},{"startTime":813.3,"endTime":816.78,"body":"They happen on the edge, away from the core."},{"startTime":816.78,"endTime":819.38,"body":"And I think so often in organizations,"},{"startTime":819.38,"endTime":822.06,"body":"especially as we're building out a strategy,"},{"startTime":822.06,"endTime":823.62,"body":"we're looking at a forecast."},{"startTime":823.62,"endTime":826.98,"body":"It's this notion of how do we preserve the core,"},{"startTime":826.98,"endTime":828.74,"body":"the essence of what we've been doing."},{"startTime":828.74,"endTime":832.06,"body":"This has been our identity for so long,"},{"startTime":832.06,"endTime":834.58,"body":"but yet that core can get stale."},{"startTime":834.58,"endTime":837.84,"body":"How do we infuse it with some new?"},{"startTime":837.84,"endTime":840.88,"body":"And it's those edge cases."},{"startTime":840.88,"endTime":843.14,"body":"It's the new acquisition."},{"startTime":843.14,"endTime":845.1,"body":"It's the new product, that new innovation"},{"startTime":845.1,"endTime":848.82,"body":"that we might not really be clear how it fits."},{"startTime":848.82,"endTime":853.7,"body":"It's like how far away from our fundamental core"},{"startTime":853.7,"endTime":855.58,"body":"is this new opportunity?"},{"startTime":855.58,"endTime":856.46,"body":"Is this?"},{"startTime":856.46,"endTime":861.14,"body":"So how do we fight, I guess, embrace that a little bit more,"},{"startTime":861.14,"endTime":864.62,"body":"that fear of are we going to get off balance?"},{"startTime":864.62,"endTime":867.22,"body":"Are we losing our identity"},{"startTime":867.22,"endTime":870.54,"body":"when there is this concept of a new idea,"},{"startTime":870.54,"endTime":873.14,"body":"new product, service?"},{"startTime":873.14,"endTime":875.3,"body":"- And ultimately that is the point."},{"startTime":875.3,"endTime":878.08,"body":"You do lose your identity because if you don't,"},{"startTime":878.08,"endTime":879.6,"body":"you won't keep evolving."},{"startTime":879.6,"endTime":882.24,"body":"And there's a theory in biology"},{"startTime":882.24,"endTime":884.14,"body":"called the Red Queen Hypothesis."},{"startTime":884.14,"endTime":887.98,"body":"And it basically says that if you don't keep evolving,"},{"startTime":887.98,"endTime":892.98,"body":"and it's from Lewis Carroll's \"Alice in Wonderland,\""},{"startTime":892.98,"endTime":896.74,"body":"where she says to Alice,"},{"startTime":897.7,"endTime":901.1,"body":"where Alice says, \"We're running,"},{"startTime":901.1,"endTime":902.82,"body":"but we're not going anywhere.\""},{"startTime":902.82,"endTime":905.22,"body":"And the queen says, \"Well, that's interesting."},{"startTime":905.22,"endTime":908.94,"body":"Normally you have to run twice as fast to get somewhere.\""},{"startTime":908.94,"endTime":910.98,"body":"And it's true in nature as well."},{"startTime":910.98,"endTime":912.66,"body":"Nature is moving all the time."},{"startTime":912.66,"endTime":914.7,"body":"You just can't see it."},{"startTime":914.7,"endTime":916.1,"body":"It's changing constantly."},{"startTime":916.1,"endTime":921.1,"body":"And companies are prone to wanting to optimize what they do."},{"startTime":921.1,"endTime":926.02,"body":"They find a business model, they narrow it down."},{"startTime":926.02,"endTime":930.98,"body":"It's like finding a pond in a desert."},{"startTime":930.98,"endTime":934.38,"body":"You find all these animals gravitating toward that resource."},{"startTime":934.38,"endTime":935.34,"body":"That's what a company does."},{"startTime":935.34,"endTime":938.14,"body":"They gravitate, their business model gravitates to that pond"},{"startTime":938.14,"endTime":941.06,"body":"and they exploit it as much as possible until it's all gone."},{"startTime":941.06,"endTime":943.32,"body":"And then they go, then they die, right?"},{"startTime":943.32,"endTime":947.7,"body":"If they were really smart, they would evolve themselves,"},{"startTime":947.7,"endTime":950.58,"body":"all with using that pond's resources"},{"startTime":950.58,"endTime":953.02,"body":"to change who they are constantly"},{"startTime":953.02,"endTime":955.74,"body":"so they can find other ponds further away"},{"startTime":955.74,"endTime":957.08,"body":"and further away and further away."},{"startTime":957.08,"endTime":960.3,"body":"So there's another,"},{"startTime":960.3,"endTime":962.42,"body":"it's not just strategies in business, by the way,"},{"startTime":962.42,"endTime":966.86,"body":"there are laws in nature that you can apply."},{"startTime":966.86,"endTime":969.58,"body":"There's one called the square cubed law."},{"startTime":969.58,"endTime":971.86,"body":"I don't know if you've heard of this."},{"startTime":971.86,"endTime":974.74,"body":"- Say that again, Ron, the square cubed law?"},{"startTime":974.74,"endTime":976.7,"body":"- Yeah, the square cubed law."},{"startTime":976.7,"endTime":985.7,"body":"So the proportionally a mouse has a surface area"},{"startTime":985.7,"endTime":988.7,"body":"that's fairly equal to its volume."},{"startTime":988.7,"endTime":992.22,"body":"But as you grow that mouse into something like a deer"},{"startTime":992.22,"endTime":996.96,"body":"or an elephant, the surface area squares,"},{"startTime":996.96,"endTime":1000.74,"body":"but the volume inside of that animal cubes."},{"startTime":1000.74,"endTime":1003.38,"body":"So what happens is you have much less surface area"},{"startTime":1003.38,"endTime":1005.3,"body":"than you have, and so what companies do,"},{"startTime":1005.3,"endTime":1006.22,"body":"they do something similar."},{"startTime":1006.22,"endTime":1009.9,"body":"As they grow, the people who talk to people"},{"startTime":1009.9,"endTime":1013.9,"body":"inside the company become bigger"},{"startTime":1013.9,"endTime":1017.22,"body":"than the number of people who talk to the world outside."},{"startTime":1017.22,"endTime":1019.46,"body":"And so you get fewer and fewer ideas"},{"startTime":1019.46,"endTime":1021.94,"body":"coming in to the company."},{"startTime":1021.94,"endTime":1023.42,"body":"And as a leader, of course,"},{"startTime":1023.42,"endTime":1026.38,"body":"you would want to recognize this flaw in your company"},{"startTime":1026.38,"endTime":1029.3,"body":"that you're only listening to each other"},{"startTime":1029.3,"endTime":1032.3,"body":"and not listening to what the world is doing."},{"startTime":1032.3,"endTime":1038.26,"body":"- And that begins to get at some of these constraints"},{"startTime":1038.26,"endTime":1039.8,"body":"that you've been mentioning."},{"startTime":1039.8,"endTime":1043.38,"body":"You're capturing so many different dualities or polarities"},{"startTime":1043.38,"endTime":1045.98,"body":"that inevitably exist in nature,"},{"startTime":1045.98,"endTime":1048.86,"body":"that nature has found ways to manage"},{"startTime":1048.86,"endTime":1051.48,"body":"or to address in various ways."},{"startTime":1051.48,"endTime":1056.12,"body":"And yet as humans, at least what I find is,"},{"startTime":1056.12,"endTime":1058.66,"body":"leaders aren't always comfortable with dualities."},{"startTime":1058.66,"endTime":1061.42,"body":"They prefer viewing complex challenges"},{"startTime":1061.42,"endTime":1063.78,"body":"as kind of on or off, right or wrong."},{"startTime":1063.78,"endTime":1066.66,"body":"It was kind of, here's the answer."},{"startTime":1066.66,"endTime":1069.42,"body":"And that's very satisfying for investors,"},{"startTime":1069.42,"endTime":1073.1,"body":"for leadership teams, that this is the one approach."},{"startTime":1073.1,"endTime":1075.74,"body":"And yet, as you're describing Ron,"},{"startTime":1075.74,"endTime":1080.2,"body":"at the edges where the constraints are most visible"},{"startTime":1080.2,"endTime":1082.98,"body":"and that you can feel them the strongest,"},{"startTime":1082.98,"endTime":1086.62,"body":"that's actually where some of the greatest innovation"},{"startTime":1086.62,"endTime":1088.78,"body":"and change can happen,"},{"startTime":1088.78,"endTime":1093.64,"body":"but it's an uncomfortable place to be."},{"startTime":1093.64,"endTime":1097.9,"body":"It forces us out of this notion that there's a right answer."},{"startTime":1097.9,"endTime":1102.18,"body":"It also introduces time challenges."},{"startTime":1102.18,"endTime":1106.02,"body":"Just like what you've described, 20 million years in nature,"},{"startTime":1106.02,"endTime":1109.74,"body":"they don't have Wall Street to contend with."},{"startTime":1109.74,"endTime":1114.14,"body":"They don't have quarterly calls and such."},{"startTime":1114.14,"endTime":1117.22,"body":"What are ways to be able to help a leader"},{"startTime":1117.22,"endTime":1119.02,"body":"who wants to be innovative"},{"startTime":1119.02,"endTime":1123.62,"body":"and yet needs to deal with this time pressure"},{"startTime":1123.62,"endTime":1126.62,"body":"of what we've put on ourselves,"},{"startTime":1126.62,"endTime":1131.62,"body":"the 90 day plans, the monthly, the annual kinds of things."},{"startTime":1131.62,"endTime":1136.22,"body":"What's a way to be able to manage that duality"},{"startTime":1136.22,"endTime":1139.18,"body":"of we need to do something quick and on time"},{"startTime":1139.18,"endTime":1143.9,"body":"while still respecting this kind of natural progression"},{"startTime":1143.9,"endTime":1145.74,"body":"that also needs to happen."},{"startTime":1145.74,"endTime":1148.58,"body":"I'm combining a lot of things here, Ron,"},{"startTime":1148.58,"endTime":1150.66,"body":"but as you're kind of hearing this,"},{"startTime":1150.66,"endTime":1153.04,"body":"what are your some reactions here?"},{"startTime":1155.78,"endTime":1158.66,"body":"- Yeah, I think that's a deep question,"},{"startTime":1158.66,"endTime":1166.66,"body":"but the challenge for leaders is to find ways to innovate"},{"startTime":1166.66,"endTime":1168.18,"body":"while they're doing their day job."},{"startTime":1168.18,"endTime":1172.46,"body":"And one of the big issues for them"},{"startTime":1172.46,"endTime":1175.26,"body":"is where are the resources coming from,"},{"startTime":1175.26,"endTime":1178.5,"body":"especially as you get these 90 day plans"},{"startTime":1178.5,"endTime":1182.74,"body":"or your KPIs that you need to meet every year."},{"startTime":1182.74,"endTime":1187.38,"body":"It's a challenge in that it's counterintuitive"},{"startTime":1187.38,"endTime":1188.74,"body":"what you actually have to do."},{"startTime":1188.74,"endTime":1193.74,"body":"So I will again go back to biology."},{"startTime":1193.74,"endTime":1198.0,"body":"There's a concept that's been proven for the last 80 years"},{"startTime":1198.0,"endTime":1200.14,"body":"called fitness landscapes."},{"startTime":1200.14,"endTime":1202.22,"body":"And it was produced in the 1930s."},{"startTime":1202.22,"endTime":1203.88,"body":"And it basically said,"},{"startTime":1203.88,"endTime":1205.98,"body":"and I'll just get to the end of the story,"},{"startTime":1205.98,"endTime":1210.66,"body":"those species that optimize like a company"},{"startTime":1211.58,"endTime":1213.62,"body":"to their highest extent,"},{"startTime":1213.62,"endTime":1216.34,"body":"meaning they're at the top of the mountain"},{"startTime":1216.34,"endTime":1218.34,"body":"in regards to optimization."},{"startTime":1218.34,"endTime":1220.94,"body":"Think of a manufacturing company like Ford, right?"},{"startTime":1220.94,"endTime":1225.54,"body":"Making automobiles day after day after day after day."},{"startTime":1225.54,"endTime":1228.26,"body":"Those are at the top, they do the best,"},{"startTime":1228.26,"endTime":1232.26,"body":"but they're the most prone to changes in the environment."},{"startTime":1232.26,"endTime":1234.62,"body":"And they're the ones, as we saw in the 70s,"},{"startTime":1234.62,"endTime":1237.82,"body":"when all those folks got fired from auto companies,"},{"startTime":1237.82,"endTime":1238.9,"body":"when things changed,"},{"startTime":1238.9,"endTime":1241.9,"body":"when the Japanese brought in their low price cars,"},{"startTime":1241.9,"endTime":1244.18,"body":"they weren't prepared for those changes."},{"startTime":1244.18,"endTime":1247.34,"body":"So biology would tell you the species that lasts the longest"},{"startTime":1247.34,"endTime":1248.74,"body":"like the horseshoe crab,"},{"startTime":1248.74,"endTime":1251.4,"body":"it's been around for a billion years."},{"startTime":1251.4,"endTime":1253.3,"body":"That's a good business model, right?"},{"startTime":1253.3,"endTime":1256.32,"body":"It doesn't optimize."},{"startTime":1256.32,"endTime":1260.22,"body":"It gets to about 80, 75% of its optimization."},{"startTime":1260.22,"endTime":1263.66,"body":"And then it conserves its resources to change."},{"startTime":1263.66,"endTime":1267.52,"body":"And so innovation comes from conservation."},{"startTime":1267.52,"endTime":1271.14,"body":"You move resources from where you might continue to optimize"},{"startTime":1271.14,"endTime":1273.34,"body":"into areas where you can experiment."},{"startTime":1273.34,"endTime":1275.98,"body":"And if you can get the organization around you"},{"startTime":1275.98,"endTime":1277.38,"body":"to think that way,"},{"startTime":1277.38,"endTime":1281.14,"body":"then you will continue forward evolving"},{"startTime":1281.14,"endTime":1284.34,"body":"and being more competitive and cooperative with the world."},{"startTime":1284.34,"endTime":1289.5,"body":"- So let's pull on this idea of optimization a little bit."},{"startTime":1289.5,"endTime":1292.7,"body":"And I wanna go back to the original analogy"},{"startTime":1292.7,"endTime":1296.94,"body":"you were sharing or example of Saturn car company."},{"startTime":1296.94,"endTime":1298.66,"body":"And I think the tagline went,"},{"startTime":1298.66,"endTime":1302.22,"body":"a different kind of car company back in the early nineties,"},{"startTime":1302.22,"endTime":1303.62,"body":"whenever that was."},{"startTime":1303.62,"endTime":1307.2,"body":"And they found success by transporting that factory"},{"startTime":1307.2,"endTime":1309.9,"body":"from Detroit to Tennessee."},{"startTime":1309.9,"endTime":1314.58,"body":"And it made me think about the power of context"},{"startTime":1314.58,"endTime":1319.5,"body":"and the environment around in which we operate."},{"startTime":1319.5,"endTime":1322.86,"body":"And we're just talking about optimization"},{"startTime":1322.86,"endTime":1325.28,"body":"with the horseshoe crab example."},{"startTime":1325.28,"endTime":1328.78,"body":"And as we kind of pull back in and think about context,"},{"startTime":1328.78,"endTime":1330.4,"body":"what are the signals?"},{"startTime":1330.4,"endTime":1331.24,"body":"What are the signs?"},{"startTime":1331.24,"endTime":1334.76,"body":"How do you know when the context you're trying to operate in"},{"startTime":1334.76,"endTime":1337.22,"body":"is not advantageous"},{"startTime":1337.22,"endTime":1339.68,"body":"to what you're trying to optimize or build out?"},{"startTime":1339.68,"endTime":1344.88,"body":"- Normally it's when the internal structures"},{"startTime":1344.88,"endTime":1346.8,"body":"are your biggest constraints."},{"startTime":1346.8,"endTime":1349.46,"body":"There's too many committees."},{"startTime":1349.46,"endTime":1350.94,"body":"There's not enough funding."},{"startTime":1350.94,"endTime":1352.82,"body":"The only people you can bring on board"},{"startTime":1352.82,"endTime":1355.82,"body":"are people who don't have enough time to work on the project"},{"startTime":1355.82,"endTime":1365.08,"body":"and it's not the passion of the leadership team."},{"startTime":1365.08,"endTime":1367.8,"body":"So it's more of a one-off"},{"startTime":1367.8,"endTime":1370.68,"body":"or it's a personal commitment for somebody."},{"startTime":1370.68,"endTime":1373.76,"body":"So, I mean, if you reverse it,"},{"startTime":1373.76,"endTime":1375.86,"body":"you think about how successful Saturn is."},{"startTime":1375.86,"endTime":1381.44,"body":"General Motors was so impressed by Saturn,"},{"startTime":1381.44,"endTime":1383.86,"body":"they said, \"Well, we can improve it.\""},{"startTime":1383.86,"endTime":1385.72,"body":"And they brought it back to Detroit."},{"startTime":1385.72,"endTime":1391.24,"body":"And in three years it was dead as a company."},{"startTime":1391.24,"endTime":1394.32,"body":"And so, yeah, I think internal constraints"},{"startTime":1394.32,"endTime":1398.48,"body":"are the principal reason that you'd want to spin something"},{"startTime":1398.48,"endTime":1400.02,"body":"out into a new environment."},{"startTime":1400.02,"endTime":1405.44,"body":"Because we really don't tend to trust the process"},{"startTime":1405.44,"endTime":1408.4,"body":"because it means all the oversight"},{"startTime":1408.4,"endTime":1410.04,"body":"that you think is so important"},{"startTime":1410.04,"endTime":1412.44,"body":"is not gonna be applicable there."},{"startTime":1412.44,"endTime":1415.52,"body":"But that's exactly what you don't want is the oversight."},{"startTime":1415.52,"endTime":1421.1,"body":"- What about if we take this idea of innovation"},{"startTime":1421.1,"endTime":1424.06,"body":"and apply it on a day-to-day basis?"},{"startTime":1424.06,"endTime":1426.0,"body":"'Cause some of what we've been talking about"},{"startTime":1426.0,"endTime":1428.04,"body":"are broader business models"},{"startTime":1428.04,"endTime":1431.88,"body":"and have broader kind of timeframes."},{"startTime":1431.88,"endTime":1436.88,"body":"What have we learned from science, from nature,"},{"startTime":1436.88,"endTime":1438.68,"body":"to help us on a daily basis?"},{"startTime":1438.68,"endTime":1440.8,"body":"What sort of habits, what's a mindset,"},{"startTime":1440.8,"endTime":1443.96,"body":"what are things that we might be able to do each day"},{"startTime":1443.96,"endTime":1448.96,"body":"to adapt and adjust, challenging our own perception perhaps"},{"startTime":1448.96,"endTime":1452.92,"body":"to foster a more open, change-oriented"},{"startTime":1452.92,"endTime":1456.0,"body":"while still being strategic?"},{"startTime":1456.0,"endTime":1459.56,"body":"It's balancing that, but on a day-to-day basis, Ron,"},{"startTime":1459.56,"endTime":1460.52,"body":"what would you say?"},{"startTime":1460.52,"endTime":1466.92,"body":"- All of us, there's this line in \"Harry Potter\""},{"startTime":1466.92,"endTime":1470.1,"body":"where Dumbledore says, \"We all get sorted too early.\""},{"startTime":1470.1,"endTime":1473.84,"body":"I think many of us grow up thinking I'm this kind of person"},{"startTime":1473.84,"endTime":1476.6,"body":"or that kind of person, and you end up in operations"},{"startTime":1476.6,"endTime":1478.72,"body":"or you end up in business development"},{"startTime":1478.72,"endTime":1480.52,"body":"or you end up in sales,"},{"startTime":1480.52,"endTime":1483.48,"body":"and you think, \"Well, that's who I am,\" right?"},{"startTime":1483.48,"endTime":1487.12,"body":"And you sell yourself that way because let's face it,"},{"startTime":1487.12,"endTime":1489.52,"body":"we all need food, we all need to make money,"},{"startTime":1489.52,"endTime":1492.68,"body":"we're just like any other species out there."},{"startTime":1492.68,"endTime":1495.44,"body":"But everybody's innovative"},{"startTime":1495.44,"endTime":1498.52,"body":"because we're part of nature, right?"},{"startTime":1498.52,"endTime":1503.56,"body":"So if you give me the most ordinary operational person"},{"startTime":1503.56,"endTime":1505.4,"body":"at the highest part of their game"},{"startTime":1505.4,"endTime":1507.52,"body":"and you put them in a new environment,"},{"startTime":1507.52,"endTime":1510.16,"body":"they will be innovating from the very first day"},{"startTime":1510.16,"endTime":1511.0,"body":"they're there, right?"},{"startTime":1511.0,"endTime":1514.76,"body":"So take somebody from Chicago and put them in Fiji,"},{"startTime":1514.76,"endTime":1517.84,"body":"and they will innovate."},{"startTime":1517.84,"endTime":1521.76,"body":"So ordinary innovation can happen to ordinary people"},{"startTime":1521.76,"endTime":1523.24,"body":"by changing their location."},{"startTime":1523.24,"endTime":1526.24,"body":"It can also happen, of course, in their regular day,"},{"startTime":1526.24,"endTime":1530.04,"body":"simply by them setting up constraints for themselves,"},{"startTime":1530.04,"endTime":1533.76,"body":"saying, \"I need to think differently about things, right?"},{"startTime":1533.76,"endTime":1537.52,"body":"I need to create conversations that are different."},{"startTime":1537.52,"endTime":1540.96,"body":"I need to create structures that push us,"},{"startTime":1540.96,"endTime":1543.64,"body":"push our boundaries to new places.\""},{"startTime":1543.64,"endTime":1547.54,"body":"But we're all so comfortable that we hesitate to do that"},{"startTime":1547.54,"endTime":1548.94,"body":"and upset the status quo."},{"startTime":1548.94,"endTime":1551.04,"body":"So it's a real challenge for us"},{"startTime":1551.04,"endTime":1554.4,"body":"to hold true to that red queen theory"},{"startTime":1554.4,"endTime":1557.16,"body":"where you have to keep moving, you have to keep moving."},{"startTime":1557.16,"endTime":1561.64,"body":"- Those little points you just were sharing there,"},{"startTime":1561.64,"endTime":1563.92,"body":"of how do you think differently?"},{"startTime":1563.92,"endTime":1567.0,"body":"How do you create those conversations?"},{"startTime":1567.0,"endTime":1570.68,"body":"How do you adjust the structure to push a little bit more?"},{"startTime":1570.68,"endTime":1572.68,"body":"Those are all, I think, very practical tips"},{"startTime":1572.68,"endTime":1577.24,"body":"as we think about applying these to our various situations"},{"startTime":1577.24,"endTime":1578.92,"body":"and pushing ourselves."},{"startTime":1578.92,"endTime":1581.04,"body":"Because ultimately what it sounds like we're getting at"},{"startTime":1581.04,"endTime":1584.24,"body":"is the innovation, the adaptation"},{"startTime":1584.24,"endTime":1588.44,"body":"does not occur just on its own."},{"startTime":1588.44,"endTime":1591.52,"body":"There are some intentional drivers to force that"},{"startTime":1591.52,"endTime":1594.96,"body":"because we also have principles within nature"},{"startTime":1594.96,"endTime":1599.24,"body":"of homeostasis and resource conservation,"},{"startTime":1599.24,"endTime":1604.24,"body":"which in some way act against that drive to change"},{"startTime":1604.24,"endTime":1608.8,"body":"and innovate because of a scarcity or a fear of that."},{"startTime":1608.8,"endTime":1610.88,"body":"And so I think there we set ourselves up"},{"startTime":1610.88,"endTime":1615.88,"body":"for this classic just age, timeless battle of,"},{"startTime":1615.88,"endTime":1620.24,"body":"well, do we expend resources to adapt and evolve and change"},{"startTime":1620.24,"endTime":1623.12,"body":"or do we conserve resources because we're afraid"},{"startTime":1623.12,"endTime":1625.32,"body":"they might not be around in the future?"},{"startTime":1625.32,"endTime":1633.4,"body":"- Even this podcast in a way has to keep innovating."},{"startTime":1633.4,"endTime":1636.96,"body":"It has competition out there for an audience."},{"startTime":1636.96,"endTime":1641.96,"body":"It's trying to adapt to the circumstances that it's under"},{"startTime":1641.96,"endTime":1645.08,"body":"and come up with new ways to think about itself."},{"startTime":1645.08,"endTime":1650.44,"body":"You may end up cooperating with somebody"},{"startTime":1650.44,"endTime":1651.92,"body":"and coming up with a new idea"},{"startTime":1651.92,"endTime":1654.02,"body":"instead of competing as well, right?"},{"startTime":1654.02,"endTime":1657.52,"body":"But the challenge is not just for businesses,"},{"startTime":1657.52,"endTime":1661.44,"body":"obviously for individuals to figure out a way."},{"startTime":1661.44,"endTime":1666.44,"body":"And nature to me is the easiest example of figuring out,"},{"startTime":1666.64,"endTime":1669.24,"body":"look at, I'm jumping around here,"},{"startTime":1669.24,"endTime":1674.24,"body":"but there are things called scaffolding species"},{"startTime":1674.24,"endTime":1678.6,"body":"that are out there that if you don't have them,"},{"startTime":1678.6,"endTime":1680.44,"body":"you can't build a larger ecosystem."},{"startTime":1680.44,"endTime":1682.42,"body":"A good example is the iPhone, right?"},{"startTime":1682.42,"endTime":1685.82,"body":"Back in 2007, there was no iPhone."},{"startTime":1685.82,"endTime":1689.2,"body":"The iPhone comes out and all of a sudden"},{"startTime":1689.2,"endTime":1693.56,"body":"400,000 businesses exist creating,"},{"startTime":1693.56,"endTime":1694.52,"body":"I mean, that's just the beginning."},{"startTime":1694.52,"endTime":1696.68,"body":"That was like the first year."},{"startTime":1696.68,"endTime":1699.44,"body":"Now we're in millions of businesses that create apps"},{"startTime":1699.44,"endTime":1701.32,"body":"that go on the iPhone."},{"startTime":1701.32,"endTime":1703.76,"body":"So it became a scaffolding species."},{"startTime":1703.76,"endTime":1707.76,"body":"We can create those things too."},{"startTime":1707.76,"endTime":1710.0,"body":"We're a part of that environment"},{"startTime":1710.0,"endTime":1714.52,"body":"and we build on each other as individuals."},{"startTime":1714.52,"endTime":1716.28,"body":"- What you're also getting at, Ron,"},{"startTime":1716.28,"endTime":1721.28,"body":"which I really appreciate is the importance and emphasis"},{"startTime":1721.46,"endTime":1725.98,"body":"on the outside structures and systems and environment."},{"startTime":1725.98,"endTime":1729.58,"body":"'Cause at least what I keep seeing is,"},{"startTime":1729.58,"endTime":1733.42,"body":"especially in business focused organizations,"},{"startTime":1733.42,"endTime":1737.58,"body":"we can put the onus on the individual leader so much."},{"startTime":1737.58,"endTime":1741.18,"body":"And we look and say, you're in charge,"},{"startTime":1741.18,"endTime":1743.94,"body":"you should have the skills, you control things,"},{"startTime":1743.94,"endTime":1744.86,"body":"you make the difference,"},{"startTime":1744.86,"endTime":1748.1,"body":"which to a certain degree is true."},{"startTime":1748.1,"endTime":1752.26,"body":"However, we can overstate it so much"},{"startTime":1752.26,"endTime":1755.74,"body":"because there is a dramatic influence and impact"},{"startTime":1755.74,"endTime":1758.74,"body":"from the environment in which we work."},{"startTime":1758.74,"endTime":1759.94,"body":"What are the systems?"},{"startTime":1759.94,"endTime":1760.86,"body":"What's the culture?"},{"startTime":1760.86,"endTime":1762.58,"body":"What's the environment?"},{"startTime":1762.58,"endTime":1764.04,"body":"What are other approaches?"},{"startTime":1764.04,"endTime":1766.7,"body":"And frankly, what are the constraints"},{"startTime":1766.7,"endTime":1771.46,"body":"that we can appreciate and value because they challenge us"},{"startTime":1771.46,"endTime":1774.02,"body":"and they make us think differently"},{"startTime":1774.02,"endTime":1777.34,"body":"instead of removing constraints and saying,"},{"startTime":1777.34,"endTime":1779.7,"body":"ah, this is a better situation."},{"startTime":1779.7,"endTime":1782.58,"body":"And maybe for a time, however,"},{"startTime":1782.58,"endTime":1786.06,"body":"that's not going to really prompt change"},{"startTime":1786.06,"endTime":1790.16,"body":"or new ways of thinking very much, which often is needed."},{"startTime":1790.16,"endTime":1795.16,"body":"And frankly, in our marketplace is needed even more"},{"startTime":1795.16,"endTime":1799.94,"body":"because it is just becoming even more of a necessity."},{"startTime":1799.94,"endTime":1804.94,"body":"So I appreciate the introduction and the emphasis"},{"startTime":1805.1,"endTime":1807.3,"body":"around the environment for us"},{"startTime":1807.3,"endTime":1809.98,"body":"'cause we don't often appreciate that."},{"startTime":1809.98,"endTime":1812.78,"body":"You've shared multiple examples of whether it's Saturn"},{"startTime":1812.78,"endTime":1815.94,"body":"or you take an operator or any of,"},{"startTime":1815.94,"endTime":1818.66,"body":"you want to get a different way of thinking,"},{"startTime":1818.66,"endTime":1821.34,"body":"put somebody in a different situation,"},{"startTime":1821.34,"endTime":1825.78,"body":"even for a short time and challenge and have that discomfort"},{"startTime":1825.78,"endTime":1828.86,"body":"and let something different emerge"},{"startTime":1828.86,"endTime":1830.46,"body":"and appreciate what that comes"},{"startTime":1830.46,"endTime":1833.4,"body":"'cause they might come out with ideas"},{"startTime":1833.4,"endTime":1835.6,"body":"that we need to have seven arms,"},{"startTime":1835.6,"endTime":1838.54,"body":"just like that initial example you provided."},{"startTime":1838.54,"endTime":1840.82,"body":"And that may not last long."},{"startTime":1840.82,"endTime":1844.5,"body":"However, that idea that may prompt something else"},{"startTime":1844.5,"endTime":1849.02,"body":"and something else and to appreciate that journey"},{"startTime":1849.02,"endTime":1852.66,"body":"in the new situation and constraints are helpful."},{"startTime":1852.66,"endTime":1856.62,"body":"Other comments as you're hearing this, Ron, please."},{"startTime":1856.62,"endTime":1860.82,"body":"- I think one of the challenges for leaders"},{"startTime":1860.82,"endTime":1863.96,"body":"is to not be so hard on themselves."},{"startTime":1863.96,"endTime":1866.2,"body":"They all wanna take it from A to Z"},{"startTime":1866.2,"endTime":1869.48,"body":"and give themselves credit for I did this."},{"startTime":1869.48,"endTime":1871.96,"body":"But if you think about the cottonwood tree"},{"startTime":1871.96,"endTime":1874.02,"body":"in the spring in Minnesota,"},{"startTime":1874.02,"endTime":1878.52,"body":"every place is covered with their seeds,"},{"startTime":1878.52,"endTime":1880.2,"body":"white seeds everywhere."},{"startTime":1880.2,"endTime":1884.6,"body":"All that tree is doing is laying seeds down, right?"},{"startTime":1884.6,"endTime":1886.66,"body":"And it's very, very, very successful at it."},{"startTime":1886.66,"endTime":1891.64,"body":"I think as leaders simply find ways to spread your idea"},{"startTime":1891.64,"endTime":1893.6,"body":"is incredibly important."},{"startTime":1893.6,"endTime":1897.1,"body":"And you don't have to take the idea to completion"},{"startTime":1897.1,"endTime":1899.04,"body":"because it may lead to another idea,"},{"startTime":1899.04,"endTime":1900.4,"body":"which may lead to another idea,"},{"startTime":1900.4,"endTime":1902.28,"body":"which before you know it has changed the direction"},{"startTime":1902.28,"endTime":1905.0,"body":"of the company and it helps them survive"},{"startTime":1905.0,"endTime":1906.32,"body":"for another 40 years, right?"},{"startTime":1906.32,"endTime":1913.32,"body":"So find ways to look at nature and say, I can do that too."},{"startTime":1913.32,"endTime":1915.4,"body":"- Yeah, that's fantastic."},{"startTime":1915.4,"endTime":1919.94,"body":"That idea, yeah, I love this concept"},{"startTime":1919.94,"endTime":1920.78,"body":"because it reinforces, I think, a theme"},{"startTime":1920.78,"endTime":1925.44,"body":"that often will come up in our podcast episodes."},{"startTime":1925.44,"endTime":1928.82,"body":"It's looking for those principles all around us"},{"startTime":1928.82,"endTime":1931.28,"body":"of leadership, the lessons to be learned,"},{"startTime":1931.28,"endTime":1935.32,"body":"but it takes a mindset on us to be open,"},{"startTime":1935.32,"endTime":1937.76,"body":"saying, hey, what can I learn from a cottonwood tree?"},{"startTime":1937.76,"endTime":1939.28,"body":"Like you just pointed out."},{"startTime":1939.28,"endTime":1941.44,"body":"What can I learn from this situation?"},{"startTime":1941.44,"endTime":1943.32,"body":"What can I learn as I'm looking at,"},{"startTime":1943.32,"endTime":1945.22,"body":"I'm in this forest and I see this tree"},{"startTime":1945.22,"endTime":1947.28,"body":"and there's a mushroom, what can I learn from that?"},{"startTime":1947.28,"endTime":1949.16,"body":"Or whatever it might be."},{"startTime":1949.16,"endTime":1952.86,"body":"There are lessons everywhere if we have the lens,"},{"startTime":1952.86,"endTime":1956.92,"body":"the patience, and we tune ourselves into being open"},{"startTime":1956.92,"endTime":1959.64,"body":"to those things around us."},{"startTime":1959.64,"endTime":1961.08,"body":"And that's what I love fundamental"},{"startTime":1961.08,"endTime":1963.16,"body":"to what you're sharing here."},{"startTime":1963.16,"endTime":1966.28,"body":"- The most famous example, of course, is birds, right?"},{"startTime":1966.28,"endTime":1971.28,"body":"They're not dinosaurs, but dinosaurs evolved feathers,"},{"startTime":1971.28,"endTime":1974.4,"body":"which eventually became birds,"},{"startTime":1974.4,"endTime":1976.56,"body":"but it took millions and millions of years,"},{"startTime":1976.56,"endTime":1978.64,"body":"but they did change."},{"startTime":1978.64,"endTime":1980.48,"body":"Dinosaurs are no longer around."},{"startTime":1980.48,"endTime":1982.12,"body":"The great-great-grandparents are gone,"},{"startTime":1982.12,"endTime":1983.78,"body":"but the kids are still here."},{"startTime":1983.78,"endTime":1985.0,"body":"They're flying."},{"startTime":1985.0,"endTime":1986.88,"body":"And no one could have predicted that."},{"startTime":1986.88,"endTime":1991.44,"body":"So innovations don't have to be huge and awe-inspiring."},{"startTime":1991.44,"endTime":1992.94,"body":"Sometimes they're just small,"},{"startTime":1992.94,"endTime":1995.36,"body":"like I need something to keep me warm."},{"startTime":1995.36,"endTime":1998.12,"body":"And before you know it, a new species emerges."},{"startTime":1998.12,"endTime":1999.68,"body":"- Yeah, yeah."},{"startTime":1999.68,"endTime":2000.96,"body":"You can't take advantage of it."},{"startTime":2000.96,"endTime":2001.8,"body":"I love it, Ron."},{"startTime":2001.8,"endTime":2005.04,"body":"Okay, last question as we wrap up here."},{"startTime":2005.04,"endTime":2008.86,"body":"So if somebody, if a leader wants to strengthen"},{"startTime":2008.86,"endTime":2011.32,"body":"their ability to think strategically,"},{"startTime":2011.32,"endTime":2014.72,"body":"what would you recommend, Ron?"},{"startTime":2014.72,"endTime":2017.4,"body":"What is a principle, what's an approach"},{"startTime":2017.4,"endTime":2019.96,"body":"that a leader can use from nature"},{"startTime":2019.96,"endTime":2023.44,"body":"so that they can build and think more strategically"},{"startTime":2023.44,"endTime":2026.96,"body":"as they go about their work of leading others?"},{"startTime":2026.96,"endTime":2027.92,"body":"What would you say?"},{"startTime":2027.92,"endTime":2031.3,"body":"- Well, for me, I grew up on a farm,"},{"startTime":2031.3,"endTime":2032.76,"body":"so I was surrounded by nature,"},{"startTime":2032.76,"endTime":2035.52,"body":"and I had deep interest and passion"},{"startTime":2035.52,"endTime":2040.12,"body":"in all sorts of things that were on the farm."},{"startTime":2040.12,"endTime":2041.5,"body":"So I think as a leader,"},{"startTime":2041.5,"endTime":2046.0,"body":"you need to turn to the things that you're familiar with"},{"startTime":2046.0,"endTime":2048.64,"body":"and you're comfortable with and you grew up with,"},{"startTime":2048.64,"endTime":2051.1,"body":"and look for the lessons there."},{"startTime":2051.1,"endTime":2053.68,"body":"Either you grew up in the inner city,"},{"startTime":2053.68,"endTime":2056.04,"body":"or you grew up with a large family,"},{"startTime":2056.04,"endTime":2058.1,"body":"or you were an ethnic family,"},{"startTime":2059.86,"endTime":2063.96,"body":"or you grew up helping with a bakery or whatever it is."},{"startTime":2063.96,"endTime":2066.0,"body":"The tools are right there."},{"startTime":2066.0,"endTime":2067.14,"body":"They don't have to be from nature."},{"startTime":2067.14,"endTime":2069.72,"body":"They can be from all sorts of other areas,"},{"startTime":2069.72,"endTime":2074.56,"body":"but they can be your guide to how to lead, I think."},{"startTime":2074.56,"endTime":2076.72,"body":"- That's fantastic."},{"startTime":2076.72,"endTime":2077.56,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2077.56,"endTime":2080.98,"body":"Ron, thank you for being on Leadership Growth Podcast today."},{"startTime":2080.98,"endTime":2083.96,"body":"- Thank you, glad you could have me."},{"startTime":2083.96,"endTime":2085.88,"body":"- Great insights, Ron, thank you."},{"startTime":2085.88,"endTime":2088.12,"body":"- Absolutely, and so everyone, all of our listeners,"},{"startTime":2088.12,"endTime":2091.3,"body":"thank you for joining the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":2091.3,"endTime":2093.18,"body":"Please join us again in the future."},{"startTime":2093.18,"endTime":2095.54,"body":"Subscribe, like, and please comment."},{"startTime":2095.54,"endTime":2097.3,"body":"We'd love to hear your thoughts"},{"startTime":2097.3,"endTime":2100.28,"body":"and look forward to a future episode."},{"startTime":2100.28,"endTime":2102.12,"body":"Take care, everyone, bye."},{"startTime":2102.12,"endTime":2103.54,"body":"If you liked this episode,"},{"startTime":2103.54,"endTime":2106.62,"body":"please share it with a friend or colleague, or better yet,"},{"startTime":2106.62,"endTime":2109.9,"body":"leave a review to help other listeners find our show."},{"startTime":2109.9,"endTime":2113.48,"body":"And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":2113.48,"endTime":2114.78,"body":"For more great content,"},{"startTime":2114.78,"endTime":2116.7,"body":"or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership"},{"startTime":2116.7,"endTime":2119.54,"body":"can help you grow your ability to lead effectively,"},{"startTime":2119.54,"endTime":2121.94,"body":"please visit stewartleadership.com."}]}