{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":0.541,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":0.541,"endTime":3.041,"body":"Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":0.541,"endTime":3.041,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":3.041,"endTime":3.625,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":4.041,"endTime":6.208,"body":"You know, everybody talks about company culture."},{"startTime":6.208,"endTime":8.208,"body":"Culture is not like words on a page."},{"startTime":8.208,"endTime":9.375,"body":"It's not like a poster."},{"startTime":9.375,"endTime":10.833,"body":"It's not a page on your website."},{"startTime":10.833,"endTime":14.916,"body":"Culture is literally the interactions you have every day,"},{"startTime":14.916,"endTime":16.375,"body":"with your direct reports."},{"startTime":16.375,"endTime":18.25,"body":"Like, that is culture."},{"startTime":18.541,"endTime":21.291,"body":"And if that relationship is good, your culture's good."},{"startTime":21.291,"endTime":25.375,"body":"And if that relationship is strained in any way, your culture is bad."},{"startTime":25.375,"endTime":33.25,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":34.0,"endTime":38.333,"body":"Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":38.875,"endTime":42.458,"body":"I'm your host, Daniel Stewart, along with my brother Peter Stewart,"},{"startTime":42.458,"endTime":45.75,"body":"and today we're honored to have a special guest with us."},{"startTime":46.041,"endTime":47.083,"body":"Phil Wilson."},{"startTime":47.083,"endTime":50.291,"body":"So thank you so much for joining us and uh"},{"startTime":50.291,"endTime":53.25,"body":"let me read a little bit about your background, Phil,"},{"startTime":53.25,"endTime":55.5,"body":"and it's a pleasure and honor to have you with us."},{"startTime":55.791,"endTime":56.583,"body":"Yeah, thanks guys."},{"startTime":57.416,"endTime":58.041,"body":"Absolutely."},{"startTime":58.041,"endTime":61.166,"body":"So Phillip B. Wilson, to be official, of course,"},{"startTime":61.166,"endTime":62.0,"body":"[chuckling]"},{"startTime":62.0,"endTime":65.833,"body":"CEO of LRI Consulting Services, Inc."},{"startTime":65.833,"endTime":68.75,"body":"and Founder of Approachable Leadership,"},{"startTime":68.75,"endTime":71.041,"body":"where he and his team help clients thrive"},{"startTime":71.041,"endTime":73.5,"body":"and create extraordinary workplaces."},{"startTime":74.25,"endTime":76.791,"body":"He is regularly featured in the business media,"},{"startTime":76.791,"endTime":81.708,"body":"including Fox Business, Fast Company, Bloomberg News, HR Magazine"},{"startTime":81.708,"endTime":83.958,"body":"and the New York Times,"},{"startTime":83.958,"endTime":89.416,"body":"as well as being the author of seven books, including the forthcoming book"},{"startTime":89.416,"endTime":91.541,"body":"The Leader-Shift Playbook."},{"startTime":92.0,"endTime":95.791,"body":"So again, Phil, pleasure to have you on the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":95.791,"endTime":96.958,"body":"Yeah, thanks, Daniel."},{"startTime":97.375,"endTime":98.458,"body":"Thanks— thanks Peter."},{"startTime":98.458,"endTime":99.708,"body":"It's great to have you here."},{"startTime":99.708,"endTime":103.791,"body":"And as we were chatting a little bit before the show,"},{"startTime":103.791,"endTime":107.791,"body":"we were chatting through the fact that we all have something in common."},{"startTime":107.791,"endTime":108.333,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":108.333,"endTime":110.833,"body":"So as many of our listeners know,"},{"startTime":110.833,"endTime":114.166,"body":"our dad started the business back in 1980."},{"startTime":114.166,"endTime":118.041,"body":"What is that, 45, 40— yeah, 45 years ago."},{"startTime":118.041,"endTime":118.458,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":118.458,"endTime":122.375,"body":"And you have a father that started a business as well"},{"startTime":122.375,"endTime":124.541,"body":"47 years ago or so."},{"startTime":124.958,"endTime":127.5,"body":"And and we often will start a um"},{"startTime":127.5,"endTime":130.583,"body":"the podcast with a little segment called Memory Lane."},{"startTime":130.583,"endTime":134.5,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":135.25,"endTime":138.708,"body":"So, as you think of an experience perhaps,"},{"startTime":138.708,"endTime":141.875,"body":"or just kind of comment on working with your dad,"},{"startTime":141.875,"endTime":144.375,"body":"I'm going to go over to you, Phil, and—"},{"startTime":144.375,"endTime":147.833,"body":"what would you say as a Memory Lane component"},{"startTime":147.833,"endTime":150.666,"body":"um as you think about working with your dad over the years?"},{"startTime":151.083,"endTime":154.208,"body":"I have a lot of memories of working with my dad."},{"startTime":154.208,"endTime":158.875,"body":"He's a colorful guy, so he—"},{"startTime":158.875,"endTime":160.833,"body":"his nickname is Diamond Don"},{"startTime":160.833,"endTime":165.25,"body":"he had a lot of, a lot of great sayings."},{"startTime":165.25,"endTime":167.666,"body":"He, he actually has like a book of his sayings."},{"startTime":167.666,"endTime":171.25,"body":"And one of the ones that I'll bring up today is, uh"},{"startTime":171.25,"endTime":174.833,"body":"it was not uncommon for us to have a difference of opinion"},{"startTime":174.833,"endTime":177.5,"body":"about like what we should be doing in the business or,"},{"startTime":177.5,"endTime":178.916,"body":"you know, sort of a business direction."},{"startTime":179.291,"endTime":181.916,"body":"And I would like make my case for a while."},{"startTime":181.916,"endTime":184.916,"body":"And then at some point he would just like stop me and he's like,"},{"startTime":184.916,"endTime":188.916,"body":"“hey, why don't we just save each other a lot of time and just assume that I'm right?”"},{"startTime":189.25,"endTime":194.208,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":194.208,"endTime":197.375,"body":"Another, another classic one is, uh,"},{"startTime":197.375,"endTime":202.333,"body":"“you know what, we'll just take a vote on it except for your vote's not going to count.”"},{"startTime":202.333,"endTime":207.666,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":207.666,"endTime":209.958,"body":"So I don't know if your guy's dad was anything like that"},{"startTime":209.958,"endTime":212.666,"body":"but uh, you know, we we would, uh, yeah,"},{"startTime":212.666,"endTime":216.125,"body":"I would have to spend a lot of time convincing him to, uh,"},{"startTime":216.125,"endTime":218.5,"body":"you know, to change a direction that he was headed"},{"startTime":219.416,"endTime":219.916,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":220.458,"endTime":222.708,"body":"I'm glad you shared those thoughts"},{"startTime":222.708,"endTime":226.0,"body":"and I think there are many, many listeners who can who can relate"},{"startTime":226.0,"endTime":229.125,"body":"as they've worked with individuals who have some strong opinions,"},{"startTime":229.125,"endTime":233.333,"body":"especially when there's been a legacy and a tradition"},{"startTime":233.333,"endTime":239.458,"body":"of doing things a certain way and that that transition to a subsequent generation"},{"startTime":239.458,"endTime":242.75,"body":"in an organization, a subsequent kind of leadership team,"},{"startTime":242.75,"endTime":246.208,"body":"uh there's there's always some of that compromise"},{"startTime":246.208,"endTime":247.333,"body":"or lack thereof"},{"startTime":247.333,"endTime":248.041,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":248.041,"endTime":249.083,"body":"as it goes."},{"startTime":249.083,"endTime":249.791,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":249.791,"endTime":250.25,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":250.25,"endTime":251.333,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":252.291,"endTime":252.875,"body":"Oh, yeah."},{"startTime":252.875,"endTime":257.0,"body":"And it reminds me, your dad has a book of some of his sayings"},{"startTime":257.0,"endTime":261.291,"body":"our dad, one of the things he loved to do was always collect quotes and sayings."},{"startTime":261.291,"endTime":264.125,"body":"And and oftentimes we actually have"},{"startTime":264.125,"endTime":267.916,"body":"put them into a book, one of our books that he actually wrote is"},{"startTime":267.916,"endTime":269.583,"body":"Leadership Gems."},{"startTime":269.583,"endTime":272.833,"body":"And so he would even put them in gems and use them"},{"startTime":272.833,"endTime":276.125,"body":"as learning moments, not only with us at home,"},{"startTime":276.125,"endTime":278.833,"body":"but with all of his clients as well and he'd say,"},{"startTime":278.833,"endTime":281.125,"body":"“Ah, remember this one” or “remember this one.”"},{"startTime":281.125,"endTime":282.125,"body":"“And remember the—”"},{"startTime":282.125,"endTime":284.791,"body":"Anyway, he was very prone to do that."},{"startTime":284.791,"endTime":288.541,"body":"And we learned a ton as we listened to these gems."},{"startTime":288.833,"endTime":289.416,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":289.416,"endTime":293.458,"body":"My dad had a lot of gems as well but they were not suitable for work."},{"startTime":293.458,"endTime":294.416,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":294.416,"endTime":295.541,"body":"His his book is uh—"},{"startTime":295.541,"endTime":296.708,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":296.708,"endTime":299.208,"body":"not quite leadership gems, although, I mean,"},{"startTime":299.208,"endTime":304.5,"body":"there, there are some amazing little nuggets of wisdom uh in there, but"},{"startTime":304.5,"endTime":307.708,"body":"but yeah, not— that one you cannot find on Amazon."},{"startTime":309.25,"endTime":310.458,"body":"Oh, that's too good."},{"startTime":310.666,"endTime":311.25,"body":"Okay."},{"startTime":311.458,"endTime":315.208,"body":"Phil, thank you for going down Memory Lane and just kind of commenting"},{"startTime":315.208,"endTime":317.458,"body":"and family businesses,"},{"startTime":317.458,"endTime":321.791,"body":"uh, tremendous impact and glad we can all be a part of..."},{"startTime":321.791,"endTime":323.291,"body":"all be a part of them."},{"startTime":323.625,"endTime":326.458,"body":"So this is an interesting segue"},{"startTime":326.458,"endTime":330.125,"body":"to the topic at hand, which is, yes, leadership,"},{"startTime":330.125,"endTime":333.458,"body":"and especially the transition, the shift."},{"startTime":333.458,"endTime":334.041,"body":"Mm Hmm."},{"startTime":334.041,"endTime":339.041,"body":"How does one go from an individual contributor, a technical,"},{"startTime":339.041,"endTime":343.083,"body":"focused person to now suddenly, oh,"},{"startTime":343.083,"endTime":343.833,"body":"I'm a leader."},{"startTime":344.041,"endTime":345.75,"body":"Do I have to change anything?"},{"startTime":345.75,"endTime":347.0,"body":"Do I have to change a mindset?"},{"startTime":347.0,"endTime":348.625,"body":"Do I have to do all these things?"},{"startTime":349.0,"endTime":351.25,"body":"And if they don't"},{"startTime":351.25,"endTime":353.75,"body":"this train wreck that might happen."},{"startTime":353.75,"endTime":356.125,"body":"And so let's let's talk for a moment."},{"startTime":356.125,"endTime":358.958,"body":"Phil, give us a sense of"},{"startTime":358.958,"endTime":362.083,"body":"what really is involved in this shift."},{"startTime":362.458,"endTime":363.875,"body":"You know, what is it?"},{"startTime":363.875,"endTime":364.958,"body":"What does it look like?"},{"startTime":365.541,"endTime":366.625,"body":"Open that up for us"},{"startTime":366.625,"endTime":368.416,"body":"so we can then dive in a little deeper."},{"startTime":368.916,"endTime":369.458,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":369.75,"endTime":372.833,"body":"I talk about at the beginning of of the next book, which is"},{"startTime":372.833,"endTime":374.125,"body":"The Leader-Shift Playbook."},{"startTime":374.125,"endTime":379.416,"body":"So that's what the you know, the book is literally about my own personal journey."},{"startTime":379.416,"endTime":382.083,"body":"But it's based on a lot of learning"},{"startTime":382.083,"endTime":385.583,"body":"that I've done really the hard way over, you know, decades."},{"startTime":385.583,"endTime":388.666,"body":"And um I I mentioned in the book that like"},{"startTime":388.666,"endTime":392.416,"body":"I've been our our, you know, I'm a labor lawyer."},{"startTime":392.416,"endTime":395.666,"body":"I kind of came up in the world dealing with, uh,"},{"startTime":395.666,"endTime":398.125,"body":"you know, basically union disputes in companies."},{"startTime":398.125,"endTime":402.0,"body":"Those tend to happen when there's a leadership problem."},{"startTime":402.0,"endTime":404.583,"body":"And as I like to say, I've been like eyewitness to"},{"startTime":404.583,"endTime":407.0,"body":"thousands of leadership train wrecks in my career."},{"startTime":407.0,"endTime":410.166,"body":"And so my my point of view around"},{"startTime":410.166,"endTime":414.291,"body":"what makes a good leader and uh what causes leaders to fail"},{"startTime":414.291,"endTime":417.458,"body":"is really built on a lot of observations"},{"startTime":417.458,"endTime":419.708,"body":"of these, you know, train wrecks, so to speak."},{"startTime":419.958,"endTime":423.875,"body":"My personal passion is actually for first-level leaders"},{"startTime":423.875,"endTime":427.75,"body":"and Daniel, you know, what you just described is so typical"},{"startTime":427.75,"endTime":430.583,"body":"with companies where you will take somebody who's a"},{"startTime":430.583,"endTime":434.333,"body":"a high performing individual contributor"},{"startTime":434.333,"endTime":438.208,"body":"and you'll plop them into a job and put “Supervisor” on their shirt,"},{"startTime":438.208,"endTime":440.75,"body":"and uh not give them any training"},{"startTime":440.75,"endTime":444.583,"body":"and then expect them to be able to lead"},{"startTime":444.583,"endTime":447.916,"body":"the people that many times, most of the time, these are people that like"},{"startTime":447.916,"endTime":450.666,"body":"they just were like peers with yesterday."},{"startTime":451.041,"endTime":454.166,"body":"And um, you... it doesn't work."},{"startTime":454.416,"endTime":457.791,"body":"And and you— and you end up what you you create all kinds of"},{"startTime":457.791,"endTime":461.166,"body":"crisis because you put a high performer that is now,"},{"startTime":461.166,"endTime":464.708,"body":"you know, judging performance of people that they perform better than."},{"startTime":464.708,"endTime":467.291,"body":"And so they're constantly just sort of looking around,"},{"startTime":467.291,"endTime":468.75,"body":"I call it making the villain assumption,"},{"startTime":468.75,"endTime":472.125,"body":"but it's like, well, nobody's as good as at this as as I was."},{"startTime":472.333,"endTime":474.0,"body":"And so you only just see"},{"startTime":474.0,"endTime":477.416,"body":"performance problems everywhere you look without giving them any"},{"startTime":477.416,"endTime":480.791,"body":"sort of help on how to coach somebody or how to,"},{"startTime":480.791,"endTime":483.833,"body":"you know, uh encourage others and and"},{"startTime":483.833,"endTime":487.25,"body":"you just create kind of like the worst possible storm"},{"startTime":487.25,"endTime":491.958,"body":"uh, and and companies do it like over and over and over and don't learn."},{"startTime":491.958,"endTime":494.541,"body":"And that was frustrating to me."},{"startTime":494.541,"endTime":497.375,"body":"That kind of got me started on, you know, well, what can we do"},{"startTime":497.375,"endTime":500.625,"body":"to sort of teach that first level group of leaders"},{"startTime":500.625,"endTime":503.166,"body":"that are so critical in a company?"},{"startTime":503.166,"endTime":506.166,"body":"And that's that's sort of led to, you know, what it is now"},{"startTime":506.166,"endTime":507.208,"body":"The Leader-Shift Playbook"},{"startTime":507.208,"endTime":508.416,"body":"and The Approachability Playbook"},{"startTime":508.416,"endTime":510.666,"body":"was the book before this one, um,"},{"startTime":510.666,"endTime":512.416,"body":"but but that's been my experience."},{"startTime":512.416,"endTime":513.833,"body":"I don't know about you guys"},{"startTime":513.833,"endTime":516.083,"body":"if you've— I'm sure have experienced some of the same."},{"startTime":517.041,"endTime":517.791,"body":"Oh yeah."},{"startTime":518.083,"endTime":520.625,"body":"Yeah, we we've we've definitely experienced that"},{"startTime":520.625,"endTime":524.416,"body":"that observation of the, you know, as you put it,"},{"startTime":524.416,"endTime":529.875,"body":"that Supervisor, Manager label is now on their shirt, go to and conquer."},{"startTime":530.083,"endTime":531.875,"body":"And they don't have the skill set."},{"startTime":531.875,"endTime":535.208,"body":"They don't have the resources to be successful so they flounder."},{"startTime":535.208,"endTime":536.166,"body":"They're frustrated."},{"startTime":536.625,"endTime":540.083,"body":"The results on both the business and the people side don't aren't there."},{"startTime":540.625,"endTime":541.75,"body":"And nobody's happy."},{"startTime":542.333,"endTime":545.041,"body":"So I I think it's great for us to"},{"startTime":545.041,"endTime":549.166,"body":"dive in a little bit more to some of those things we can do to help, and to do that."},{"startTime":549.166,"endTime":553.041,"body":"But before we go there, I I want to ask you, I'm thinking of the old, you know,"},{"startTime":553.041,"endTime":557.0,"body":"Jeff Foxworthy, here's your sign kind of uh comedy sketches."},{"startTime":557.25,"endTime":559.333,"body":"As you mentioned this train wreck"},{"startTime":559.333,"endTime":560.333,"body":"that can happen."},{"startTime":560.583,"endTime":563.083,"body":"What are some of the the signs,"},{"startTime":563.083,"endTime":567.041,"body":"the top two or three indications that you're headed"},{"startTime":567.041,"endTime":569.125,"body":"you're headed for a leadership train wreck here?"},{"startTime":570.25,"endTime":572.0,"body":"Oh, that's that's a great question."},{"startTime":572.0,"endTime":574.875,"body":"The I mean, what we talk about are"},{"startTime":574.875,"endTime":578.875,"body":"a lot of our training really centers around this idea of power distance."},{"startTime":579.166,"endTime":582.5,"body":"And so power distance is this is this notion that"},{"startTime":582.5,"endTime":586.916,"body":"when you have people that are in a high power and low power relationship,"},{"startTime":586.916,"endTime":589.666,"body":"the person that is in the low power relationship,"},{"startTime":589.666,"endTime":592.083,"body":"if they're experiencing wide distance"},{"startTime":592.083,"endTime":594.958,"body":"with their leader, they're going to behave differently."},{"startTime":594.958,"endTime":598.0,"body":"And those are really sort of the tells that, you know,"},{"startTime":598.0,"endTime":601.875,"body":"someone is exper— there is a leadership problem here that"},{"startTime":601.875,"endTime":603.791,"body":"that then results in all kinds of bad behaviors."},{"startTime":603.791,"endTime":604.958,"body":"So what are those tells?"},{"startTime":605.333,"endTime":606.791,"body":"There are verbal tells."},{"startTime":607.0,"endTime":610.458,"body":"So the verbal the verbal tells are, I'm not going to tell you what I think."},{"startTime":610.875,"endTime":613.875,"body":"I am not going to I'm going to try to figure out"},{"startTime":613.875,"endTime":618.208,"body":"what you think before I take a position on something because I want to agree with you."},{"startTime":618.75,"endTime":621.625,"body":"Um I will engage in what's called mitigated speech,"},{"startTime":621.625,"endTime":625.25,"body":"but those are like verbal signs that I don't feel comfortable"},{"startTime":625.25,"endTime":627.708,"body":"and safe around you or safe coming to you."},{"startTime":627.708,"endTime":629.041,"body":"There's physical signs."},{"startTime":629.458,"endTime":633.958,"body":"Like the the most clear physical sign is like I run away when you come toward me."},{"startTime":633.958,"endTime":635.666,"body":"Like I will go find something to do."},{"startTime":635.916,"endTime":638.666,"body":"But like I when you're approaching, I don't want to talk to you."},{"startTime":639.0,"endTime":642.666,"body":"Um, when I do get engaged in a conversation with you"},{"startTime":642.666,"endTime":644.125,"body":"uh I will act nervous."},{"startTime":644.125,"endTime":645.166,"body":"I will fidget."},{"startTime":645.166,"endTime":648.541,"body":"I will, uh, you know, I'll I'll try to,"},{"startTime":648.541,"endTime":650.5,"body":"you know, protect myself, basically."},{"startTime":650.5,"endTime":653.916,"body":"It's your it's your amygdala going like, uh, this"},{"startTime":653.916,"endTime":655.875,"body":"person is not safe to be around."},{"startTime":656.375,"endTime":661.083,"body":"Um, and then the third set of behaviors are are our behavioral signs."},{"startTime":661.083,"endTime":664.625,"body":"So a behavioral sign is like, I will,"},{"startTime":664.625,"endTime":668.541,"body":"and as a leader, a lot of times we see these as, well, this person I can't,"},{"startTime":668.541,"endTime":671.708,"body":"I can't count on them because I will tell you I can do something"},{"startTime":671.708,"endTime":674.666,"body":"just because I don't want to have an uncomfortable conversation with you saying like,"},{"startTime":674.666,"endTime":676.791,"body":"I don't know how to do it. Or I don't have time to do it."},{"startTime":677.166,"endTime":681.125,"body":"Um, and I'll just agree to do it and hope you don't check on me later."},{"startTime":681.375,"endTime":685.958,"body":"Like that, those are behavioral signs that I don't feel safe and comfortable with you."},{"startTime":686.25,"endTime":689.166,"body":"And so those would be like truly early"},{"startTime":689.166,"endTime":692.791,"body":"warning signs as a leader of like, okay, well, if my team"},{"startTime":692.791,"endTime":695.208,"body":"doesn't feel safe and comfortable with me,"},{"startTime":695.208,"endTime":697.875,"body":"um I need to be doing things to bridge that gap."},{"startTime":697.875,"endTime":701.541,"body":"Because if you don't, you know, you're going to be the last to know about things,"},{"startTime":701.541,"endTime":705.541,"body":"uh, you, you know, lots of safety crises occur"},{"startTime":705.541,"endTime":708.291,"body":"because the leader doesn't know information"},{"startTime":708.291,"endTime":710.791,"body":"because people don't feel comfortable telling it to them."},{"startTime":711.125,"endTime":713.541,"body":"Um all kinds of negative things happen."},{"startTime":713.875,"endTime":716.583,"body":"Um, and that and that leads to the train wrecks, right?"},{"startTime":716.583,"endTime":720.208,"body":"So those would be three things that I would be on the lookout for."},{"startTime":720.625,"endTime":723.208,"body":"And and I you've articulated"},{"startTime":723.208,"endTime":726.833,"body":"this really well and get very specific so that you can see and feel it."},{"startTime":726.833,"endTime":731.458,"body":"And I'm sure many of our listeners are right now just remembering themselves"},{"startTime":731.458,"endTime":731.833,"body":"—Mm hmm—"},{"startTime":731.833,"endTime":733.458,"body":"or others that they've worked with."},{"startTime":733.791,"endTime":736.208,"body":"And the real unfortunate thing is"},{"startTime":736.208,"endTime":740.958,"body":"just as somebody's promoted to a managerial or leader role,"},{"startTime":740.958,"endTime":745.75,"body":"that's when they both need to have the greatest support to to shine and to learn."},{"startTime":746.083,"endTime":749.333,"body":"And yet it's often accompanied with this impostor"},{"startTime":749.333,"endTime":752.791,"body":"feeling of this feeling of, um, I don't"},{"startTime":752.791,"endTime":756.375,"body":"know what the heck I'm doing, but I can't let anybody know that."},{"startTime":756.666,"endTime":757.041,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":757.041,"endTime":760.375,"body":"I I can't come out and say, “I'm I'm drowning.”"},{"startTime":760.375,"endTime":761.541,"body":"“Please help me.”"},{"startTime":761.541,"endTime":765.291,"body":"No, I got to pretend like I can conquer it all myself."},{"startTime":765.625,"endTime":766.583,"body":"I'm in the deep end."},{"startTime":766.583,"endTime":768.041,"body":"I can learn how to swim."},{"startTime":768.5,"endTime":770.791,"body":"And yet that's the very time"},{"startTime":770.791,"endTime":771.291,"body":"—Mm hmm—"},{"startTime":771.291,"endTime":773.541,"body":"that they need the most support."},{"startTime":773.875,"endTime":776.0,"body":"How do we balance this?"},{"startTime":776.0,"endTime":779.125,"body":"Because we've all been talking about this pattern that happens."},{"startTime":779.5,"endTime":783.916,"body":"You get the best doer, you make that person a manager and"},{"startTime":783.916,"endTime":784.541,"body":"great."},{"startTime":784.541,"endTime":787.416,"body":"They're off to the you know, off to the races, so to speak."},{"startTime":788.083,"endTime":790.166,"body":"How do we do this better?"},{"startTime":790.458,"endTime":793.916,"body":"How do we break up this pattern to help the person"},{"startTime":793.916,"endTime":798.166,"body":"at the time they they need the most help so they can be successful?"},{"startTime":798.166,"endTime":802.0,"body":"Well, I you know, I actually, the person who has imposter syndrome,"},{"startTime":802.0,"endTime":806.25,"body":"I actually put like a step above where I start the book talking about myself."},{"startTime":806.25,"endTime":810.166,"body":"So if you have imposter syndrome, at least you're starting from a place of like,"},{"startTime":810.166,"endTime":811.958,"body":"I'm not sure I know how to do this."},{"startTime":812.333,"endTime":815.791,"body":"Now, you your your your reaction to that might be"},{"startTime":815.791,"endTime":817.166,"body":"to pretend that you know what you're doing."},{"startTime":817.458,"endTime":819.333,"body":"And that that might not be the best approach."},{"startTime":819.333,"endTime":822.333,"body":"But at least somewhere in there, it's like I need to learn something."},{"startTime":822.75,"endTime":826.541,"body":"The flip side of that is the Dunning-Kruger problem,"},{"startTime":826.541,"endTime":830.208,"body":"which is where 'I know a little bit about, you know, I read,'"},{"startTime":830.208,"endTime":834.041,"body":"'you know, one leadership book when I got promoted,'"},{"startTime":834.041,"endTime":837.25,"body":"'and now I think I'm like a leadership expert'"},{"startTime":837.25,"endTime":841.375,"body":"and um you are about ready to just go from the top of Mount Stupid"},{"startTime":841.375,"endTime":842.708,"body":"all the way down to the bottom."},{"startTime":843.0,"endTime":843.833,"body":"So"},{"startTime":843.833,"endTime":846.791,"body":"uh, both of those are situations, though, where"},{"startTime":846.791,"endTime":851.875,"body":"the leader the there's an easy answer to it, but most people won't do it."},{"startTime":852.25,"endTime":855.958,"body":"If you don't know what you're doing,"},{"startTime":855.958,"endTime":858.625,"body":"um the the cool thing about leadership"},{"startTime":858.625,"endTime":861.208,"body":"is like your customers are standing right there."},{"startTime":861.541,"endTime":864.208,"body":"Like the team that you lead is right there."},{"startTime":864.458,"endTime":866.666,"body":"Ask them if you're doing a good job leading them."},{"startTime":866.875,"endTime":867.875,"body":"Like they will tell you."},{"startTime":868.25,"endTime":870.0,"body":"Is there something that I should do more of?"},{"startTime":870.5,"endTime":873.333,"body":"This comes back to the imposter syndrome where you like"},{"startTime":873.333,"endTime":876.041,"body":"a lot of times we want to avoid that difficult conversation"},{"startTime":876.041,"endTime":878.208,"body":"and we don't want to look like we don't know what we're doing."},{"startTime":878.583,"endTime":879.333,"body":"Um,"},{"startTime":879.333,"endTime":881.208,"body":"the crazy thing about it is like"},{"startTime":881.208,"endTime":885.583,"body":"if you will just make that one vulnerable step of going like, hey,"},{"startTime":885.583,"endTime":887.083,"body":"do you think I'm doing this right?"},{"startTime":887.083,"endTime":888.666,"body":"Your team will tell you what to do."},{"startTime":888.666,"endTime":890.375,"body":"Like they will tell you,"},{"startTime":890.375,"endTime":894.916,"body":"you know, I wish you would stop doing this or I wish you would do more of this."},{"startTime":895.125,"endTime":897.875,"body":"Like they will give you the instruction manual"},{"startTime":897.875,"endTime":900.458,"body":"if you make it safe for them to give you feedback."},{"startTime":900.916,"endTime":905.833,"body":"So that's the ironic thing about like imposter syndrome, but"},{"startTime":905.833,"endTime":909.083,"body":"uh but at least you're kind of in the mode where you you're"},{"startTime":909.083,"endTime":912.875,"body":"you're probably more willing to learn or or at least you see that there's a"},{"startTime":912.875,"endTime":914.791,"body":"a it's time to maybe learn something."},{"startTime":915.125,"endTime":916.333,"body":"So that that's a good place."},{"startTime":916.333,"endTime":919.75,"body":"Like if you if you have that, now it's just like, okay, well, how do I learn it?"},{"startTime":920.25,"endTime":921.458,"body":"Go talk to your customers."},{"startTime":922.125,"endTime":922.541,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":923.208,"endTime":926.0,"body":"You're making a really clear distinction there"},{"startTime":926.0,"endTime":928.291,"body":"between those with a little bit of knowledge"},{"startTime":928.291,"endTime":932.375,"body":"and so there's an arrogance that can come of, hey, I I got this."},{"startTime":932.375,"endTime":936.208,"body":"I'm I'm fine versus those who have that openness to learn."},{"startTime":936.708,"endTime":937.708,"body":"They recognize it."},{"startTime":938.0,"endTime":942.458,"body":"And that proximity to your customer's notion, I think is powerful."},{"startTime":942.833,"endTime":943.125,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":943.125,"endTime":946.291,"body":"Because I it's it's not utilized enough"},{"startTime":946.291,"endTime":947.333,"body":"as you really think about it,"},{"startTime":947.333,"endTime":951.0,"body":"these are the people you're interacting with, hopefully most often."},{"startTime":951.333,"endTime":955.416,"body":"And there may be some geographic, you know, separation,"},{"startTime":955.416,"endTime":958.375,"body":"but with today, you know, Zoom and Teams and everything"},{"startTime":958.375,"endTime":961.166,"body":"you can have that frequent interaction with them."},{"startTime":961.458,"endTime":963.083,"body":"It's just that willingness to ask."},{"startTime":963.75,"endTime":964.583,"body":"To ask the question."},{"startTime":964.583,"endTime":967.583,"body":"So how do you set an environment"},{"startTime":967.583,"endTime":971.166,"body":"if a leader is willing to get that feedback"},{"startTime":971.166,"endTime":974.958,"body":"so that they actually get real feedback when they ask it?"},{"startTime":975.5,"endTime":975.916,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":976.5,"endTime":977.166,"body":"Well,"},{"startTime":977.166,"endTime":980.125,"body":"you know, when I talk about the shifts, and look, these I'm"},{"startTime":980.125,"endTime":984.166,"body":"I I am not saying that like I am"},{"startTime":984.166,"endTime":987.166,"body":"the like the expert in leadership"},{"startTime":987.166,"endTime":989.75,"body":"that I kind of thought I was at one point,"},{"startTime":989.75,"endTime":994.541,"body":"but I got, I definitely got knocked off of Mount Stupid with with my own team"},{"startTime":994.541,"endTime":997.416,"body":"at the same time that I was going around, you know,"},{"startTime":997.416,"endTime":1001.791,"body":"giving keynote speeches and trainings and writing books about leadership,"},{"startTime":1001.791,"endTime":1003.416,"body":"my own team was really suffering"},{"startTime":1003.416,"endTime":1005.666,"body":"because I wasn't being a very good leader here."},{"startTime":1006.208,"endTime":1008.958,"body":"And so like the shifts that"},{"startTime":1008.958,"endTime":1012.083,"body":"that I made and those are the shifts I talk about in the book,"},{"startTime":1012.083,"endTime":1014.125,"body":"and these would then be the shifts that somebody"},{"startTime":1014.125,"endTime":1015.916,"body":"that's in the position you just described Peter,"},{"startTime":1015.916,"endTime":1017.041,"body":"that they would make,"},{"startTime":1017.041,"endTime":1019.333,"body":"you know, the first one is belief in your impact."},{"startTime":1019.333,"endTime":1023.75,"body":"So like you're having an impact, um whether you"},{"startTime":1023.75,"endTime":1026.208,"body":"think you are you're not a lot of times first-level"},{"startTime":1026.208,"endTime":1031.375,"body":"leaders talk themselves into this place of like what I do isn't really very important."},{"startTime":1031.375,"endTime":1033.333,"body":"I'm just like this first-level supervisor."},{"startTime":1033.708,"endTime":1034.875,"body":"What I do doesn't matter."},{"startTime":1035.166,"endTime":1038.25,"body":"And and that nothing could be further from the truth."},{"startTime":1038.25,"endTime":1042.208,"body":"I like when I get into a room full of first-level supervisors,"},{"startTime":1042.208,"endTime":1044.791,"body":"I like to start off with,"},{"startTime":1044.791,"endTime":1046.958,"body":"you know, everybody talks about company culture."},{"startTime":1046.958,"endTime":1049.0,"body":"Culture is not like words on a page."},{"startTime":1049.0,"endTime":1050.25,"body":"It's not like a poster."},{"startTime":1050.25,"endTime":1051.625,"body":"It's not a page on your website."},{"startTime":1051.625,"endTime":1054.75,"body":"Culture is literally the interactions you have"},{"startTime":1054.75,"endTime":1057.125,"body":"every day with your direct reports."},{"startTime":1057.125,"endTime":1058.958,"body":"Like that is culture."},{"startTime":1059.291,"endTime":1062.041,"body":"And if that relationship is good, your culture's good."},{"startTime":1062.041,"endTime":1065.958,"body":"And if that relationship is strained in any way, your culture is bad."},{"startTime":1066.333,"endTime":1068.458,"body":"You have a massive impact"},{"startTime":1068.458,"endTime":1071.291,"body":"on culture in your company,"},{"startTime":1071.291,"endTime":1074.208,"body":"but that so that that's the one shift people have to make."},{"startTime":1074.666,"endTime":1076.75,"body":"The second shift is your belief in yourself."},{"startTime":1077.083,"endTime":1079.0,"body":"Like, do I think I can do this?"},{"startTime":1079.5,"endTime":1080.916,"body":"Um,"},{"startTime":1080.916,"endTime":1083.958,"body":"and then and and so this sort of gets to the imposter syndrome."},{"startTime":1084.208,"endTime":1087.708,"body":"And and also it's just like you have biases."},{"startTime":1087.708,"endTime":1090.833,"body":"Like you come to whatever experiences"},{"startTime":1090.833,"endTime":1094.25,"body":"you had that sort of led to this moment of you being a leader, um"},{"startTime":1094.25,"endTime":1096.25,"body":"you've had experiences with other leaders."},{"startTime":1096.25,"endTime":1097.791,"body":"You've had experiences"},{"startTime":1097.791,"endTime":1101.041,"body":"with other people that, you know, you lead."},{"startTime":1101.041,"endTime":1103.791,"body":"And like those all together"},{"startTime":1103.791,"endTime":1106.958,"body":"are going to lead to sort of how you're going to interact with people as a leader."},{"startTime":1106.958,"endTime":1111.875,"body":"So you need to get into the headspace of, I don't necessarily know everything."},{"startTime":1111.875,"endTime":1114.125,"body":"I I need to"},{"startTime":1114.125,"endTime":1117.75,"body":"um, I need to grow myself, alright?"},{"startTime":1117.75,"endTime":1120.791,"body":"And I also need to be on the lookout for where am I"},{"startTime":1120.791,"endTime":1122.666,"body":"sort of making assumptions about people"},{"startTime":1122.666,"endTime":1125.375,"body":"or assumptions about things that might not be true?"},{"startTime":1125.583,"endTime":1127.041,"body":"So that's the second shift."},{"startTime":1127.416,"endTime":1129.75,"body":"The third shift then becomes your belief in others."},{"startTime":1130.0,"endTime":1132.583,"body":"So this is what I call the hero assumption."},{"startTime":1132.583,"endTime":1134.166,"body":"So the hero assumption is,"},{"startTime":1134.166,"endTime":1136.958,"body":"I got to believe that my everyone on my team wants to be great."},{"startTime":1137.625,"endTime":1139.291,"body":"You don't have the luxury of any other belief."},{"startTime":1139.5,"endTime":1142.791,"body":"You that that belief will result in reality."},{"startTime":1143.041,"endTime":1145.583,"body":"So if you believe people are going to fail, they're going to fail."},{"startTime":1145.833,"endTime":1149.041,"body":"But if you believe that they're going to rise to the occasion and succeed,"},{"startTime":1149.041,"endTime":1152.333,"body":"your your words, the way you behave around them,"},{"startTime":1152.333,"endTime":1156.875,"body":"the things that you're going to ask them to do, like all of that will result in"},{"startTime":1156.875,"endTime":1159.166,"body":"in their performing at that high level."},{"startTime":1159.166,"endTime":1162.375,"body":"And a lot of people don't even believe in themselves."},{"startTime":1162.375,"endTime":1165.166,"body":"So like the first person, when we think about"},{"startTime":1165.166,"endTime":1168.291,"body":"really important influential leaders in our lives,"},{"startTime":1168.291,"endTime":1171.666,"body":"often it's the first person that thought about us is"},{"startTime":1171.666,"endTime":1175.125,"body":"maybe having the ability to be a leader, right?"},{"startTime":1175.125,"endTime":1178.083,"body":"At times that we never even maybe thought about that for ourselves."},{"startTime":1178.416,"endTime":1180.25,"body":"So that's the third shift."},{"startTime":1180.25,"endTime":1182.625,"body":"The fourth shift is belief in your relationships."},{"startTime":1183.041,"endTime":1186.166,"body":"It's so easy to just have kind of phony,"},{"startTime":1186.166,"endTime":1188.0,"body":"let's talk about fantasy football."},{"startTime":1188.0,"endTime":1190.25,"body":"Let's talk about the, you know, the weather."},{"startTime":1190.583,"endTime":1195.333,"body":"Um, but really having those conversations like we just talked about, right?"},{"startTime":1195.333,"endTime":1200.041,"body":"How am I doing as, you know, you're my customer, give me some feedback."},{"startTime":1200.041,"endTime":1200.916,"body":"How am I doing?"},{"startTime":1200.916,"endTime":1201.791,"body":"How can I be better?"},{"startTime":1202.291,"endTime":1203.791,"body":"This is fantastic,"},{"startTime":1203.791,"endTime":1205.5,"body":"especially to"},{"startTime":1205.5,"endTime":1209.25,"body":"create this environment of psychological safety"},{"startTime":1209.25,"endTime":1209.833,"body":"—Mm hmm—"},{"startTime":1209.833,"endTime":1213.0,"body":"or yourself, for your team to have open"},{"startTime":1213.0,"endTime":1216.583,"body":"and direct dialogue, recognizing no one's perfect."},{"startTime":1216.583,"endTime":1220.5,"body":"Let's all figure this out together and your customers are right there."},{"startTime":1220.5,"endTime":1223.333,"body":"Let's actually really engage in genuine ways."},{"startTime":1224.291,"endTime":1228.5,"body":"I want to go back to a phrase you've said a couple of times, Mount Stupid."},{"startTime":1228.5,"endTime":1229.0,"body":"[chuckling]"},{"startTime":1229.0,"endTime":1231.375,"body":"So I'm sure listeners are like,"},{"startTime":1231.375,"endTime":1236.625,"body":"well, this is an interesting place and it doesn't sound like some place we want to go."},{"startTime":1237.291,"endTime":1239.791,"body":"You've said you've been on Mount Stupid."},{"startTime":1240.0,"endTime":1241.25,"body":"Tell us"},{"startTime":1241.25,"endTime":1243.125,"body":"how do you get to Mount Stupid?"},{"startTime":1243.416,"endTime":1246.291,"body":"How do you— what is it?"},{"startTime":1246.291,"endTime":1249.125,"body":"And you've already talked a lot about how to get off of it."},{"startTime":1249.375,"endTime":1252.583,"body":"But what the heck is it and how do we find ourselves there?"},{"startTime":1253.25,"endTime":1255.833,"body":"Yeah, you if you just like Google"},{"startTime":1255.833,"endTime":1258.5,"body":"Dunning-Kruger, there's a curve you'll see."},{"startTime":1258.5,"endTime":1261.041,"body":"And the basic idea of Dunning-Kruger is that"},{"startTime":1261.041,"endTime":1264.291,"body":"if you're at the— you're at the beginning of something that's hard."},{"startTime":1264.541,"endTime":1268.291,"body":"And there's like nothing harder than leadership or relationships, right?"},{"startTime":1268.583,"endTime":1272.625,"body":"So at the very beginning, you're like, I don't know anything about this"},{"startTime":1272.625,"endTime":1274.583,"body":"and you know you don't know anything about it."},{"startTime":1274.583,"endTime":1278.75,"body":"And like that's a that's a safe place to be because you're because you're not going to"},{"startTime":1278.75,"endTime":1282.375,"body":"you're not going to it's you're not going to do something um"},{"startTime":1282.375,"endTime":1284.458,"body":"crazy because you're like, I don't know what I'm doing."},{"startTime":1284.75,"endTime":1288.0,"body":"So then the next stop is Mount Stupid."},{"startTime":1288.208,"endTime":1290.708,"body":"So this is some people"},{"startTime":1290.708,"endTime":1295.958,"body":"when they, it's in fact most people, uh when you start something complicated"},{"startTime":1295.958,"endTime":1298.958,"body":"and you learn something about it, you start comparing"},{"startTime":1298.958,"endTime":1301.666,"body":"yourself to where you were just before, which is I know nothing."},{"startTime":1302.166,"endTime":1306.916,"body":"Okay, well, now you know something and you have just like a little bit of success."},{"startTime":1306.916,"endTime":1308.583,"body":"You're like, oh, I got this."},{"startTime":1308.583,"endTime":1311.041,"body":"You know, like, like I'm a terrible"},{"startTime":1311.041,"endTime":1314.666,"body":"uh snow skier, but like when I, you know, the very first time"},{"startTime":1314.666,"endTime":1318.083,"body":"I ever went skiing, you know, I pretty much got dropped off"},{"startTime":1318.083,"endTime":1320.583,"body":"at the top of the mountain with my buddies and they're like"},{"startTime":1320.583,"endTime":1322.958,"body":"you know, just go down to the bottom, right?"},{"startTime":1323.25,"endTime":1325.916,"body":"Well, if you don't know any better, you're kind of like,"},{"startTime":1325.916,"endTime":1330.416,"body":"well, everyone else here just seems to just be, you know, skiing with no problem."},{"startTime":1330.416,"endTime":1332.791,"body":"I'll just like point myself down the hill"},{"startTime":1332.791,"endTime":1335.291,"body":"and thank God there was like a building at the bottom"},{"startTime":1335.291,"endTime":1337.416,"body":"I could crash into or I would have ended up in a parking lot."},{"startTime":1337.791,"endTime":1338.458,"body":"Okay, so that's—"},{"startTime":1338.458,"endTime":1339.75,"body":"I had the same experience!"},{"startTime":1339.75,"endTime":1339.958,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":1339.958,"endTime":1342.166,"body":"That was my first skiing lesson with the buddy."},{"startTime":1342.5,"endTime":1343.416,"body":"We need better friends."},{"startTime":1343.416,"endTime":1343.875,"body":"Good luck!"},{"startTime":1343.875,"endTime":1345.041,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":1345.041,"endTime":1345.75,"body":"Correct."},{"startTime":1345.75,"endTime":1348.291,"body":"Yeah, how to have better friends who don't want to kill you."},{"startTime":1348.291,"endTime":1349.625,"body":"Anyway, yes, keep going."},{"startTime":1349.625,"endTime":1350.166,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":1350.166,"endTime":1350.666,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1350.666,"endTime":1351.291,"body":"So"},{"startTime":1351.291,"endTime":1352.5,"body":"so that's Mount Stupid."},{"startTime":1352.5,"endTime":1356.208,"body":"You know, I know I know enough to be dangerous and then you are dangerous."},{"startTime":1356.208,"endTime":1358.083,"body":"Like you think that you know more than you know."},{"startTime":1358.541,"endTime":1360.791,"body":"So then, then what happens is,"},{"startTime":1360.791,"endTime":1364.291,"body":"and my own personal story I tell in the book, but like I I,"},{"startTime":1364.291,"endTime":1368.875,"body":"you know, again, I think of myself as like this, this this leader guy, right?"},{"startTime":1368.875,"endTime":1370.083,"body":"And um"},{"startTime":1370.083,"endTime":1372.666,"body":"I— we're making a transition in our company."},{"startTime":1372.666,"endTime":1374.416,"body":"You know, we've talked about family owned business."},{"startTime":1374.416,"endTime":1376.875,"body":"We were making an important leadership transition."},{"startTime":1377.25,"endTime":1380.208,"body":"And I went and talked to uh Debbie,"},{"startTime":1380.208,"endTime":1383.958,"body":"who is she has a role in our company now called Integrator,"},{"startTime":1383.958,"endTime":1386.5,"body":"but when I offered her that role,"},{"startTime":1386.5,"endTime":1389.458,"body":"she was like, well, I think I should tell you something."},{"startTime":1389.875,"endTime":1392.916,"body":"I told your dad that he's not allowed"},{"startTime":1392.916,"endTime":1397.208,"body":"to retire until I'm ready to retire because I'll never work for Phil."},{"startTime":1398.041,"endTime":1400.5,"body":"And uh I did not know she felt that way."},{"startTime":1400.5,"endTime":1403.25,"body":"We're not like a big company, all right?"},{"startTime":1403.25,"endTime":1405.916,"body":"And she was I mean, she worked here years."},{"startTime":1406.291,"endTime":1410.458,"body":"Um, and so that was kind of my Mount Stupid moment"},{"startTime":1410.458,"endTime":1414.333,"body":"where I'm like, ooh, I am not the leader that I thought I was."},{"startTime":1414.791,"endTime":1418.208,"body":"And, uh fortunately, we worked through that."},{"startTime":1418.208,"endTime":1423.291,"body":"We talked a little bit about like what so why do I drive her crazy, um which I do."},{"startTime":1423.291,"endTime":1425.708,"body":"There's some things that she does that drive me crazy."},{"startTime":1425.708,"endTime":1428.958,"body":"And so we started talking about that."},{"startTime":1428.958,"endTime":1432.166,"body":"And I don't know how familiar you guys are with EOS, but there's this"},{"startTime":1432.166,"endTime":1435.666,"body":"this idea of like a visionary and an integrator and she's the integrator"},{"startTime":1435.666,"endTime":1439.541,"body":"I'm the visionary, but like that those conflicts are like super common."},{"startTime":1439.875,"endTime":1444.666,"body":"But I didn't really realize the chaos I was creating for her and for the rest of the team."},{"startTime":1445.041,"endTime":1447.541,"body":"And and then she became"},{"startTime":1447.541,"endTime":1451.541,"body":"came to appreciate, you know, what it was that I was bringing to the business."},{"startTime":1451.833,"endTime":1453.833,"body":"And through those conversations"},{"startTime":1453.833,"endTime":1457.083,"body":"we became a very strong team together."},{"startTime":1457.416,"endTime":1461.083,"body":"And that sort of began the journey for the rest of the organization."},{"startTime":1461.458,"endTime":1465.75,"body":"But it required like tough conversations and that that was my Mount Stupid moment."},{"startTime":1466.166,"endTime":1469.083,"body":"And um and so I like I I say in the book"},{"startTime":1469.083,"endTime":1472.375,"body":"but I just kind of assume I'm on Mount Stupid all the time now"},{"startTime":1472.375,"endTime":1475.875,"body":"just because it gets you in a frame of mind where you're like,"},{"startTime":1475.875,"endTime":1477.041,"body":"okay, I have more to learn."},{"startTime":1477.375,"endTime":1480.958,"body":"Um I got to grow, you know, what can I do to get better?"},{"startTime":1480.958,"endTime":1483.875,"body":"That's a healthy place to be as a leader."},{"startTime":1484.125,"endTime":1486.583,"body":"Don't ever feel like you have leadership figured out."},{"startTime":1486.583,"endTime":1488.291,"body":"Like it's— you don't."},{"startTime":1489.125,"endTime":1489.5,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1490.0,"endTime":1494.333,"body":"Arrogance and leadership don't belong in the same sentence."},{"startTime":1494.333,"endTime":1496.833,"body":"They don't they don't work well together."},{"startTime":1497.166,"endTime":1499.875,"body":"I'm reminded of one of my my favorite gems"},{"startTime":1499.875,"endTime":1502.375,"body":"that my dad said all the time is"},{"startTime":1502.375,"endTime":1504.208,"body":"“when you're green you grow,”"},{"startTime":1504.208,"endTime":1505.625,"body":"“and when you're ripe you rot.”"},{"startTime":1506.125,"endTime":1506.75,"body":"Mmmmm."},{"startTime":1506.958,"endTime":1509.625,"body":"You know, it's just how you stay green."},{"startTime":1510.041,"endTime":1513.333,"body":"And, you know, setting up a summer cabin,"},{"startTime":1513.333,"endTime":1515.958,"body":"condo, permanent location there on Mount Stupid"},{"startTime":1515.958,"endTime":1516.458,"body":"—Mm hmm—"},{"startTime":1516.458,"endTime":1518.916,"body":"so that you're continually"},{"startTime":1518.916,"endTime":1521.166,"body":"in that growth opportunity and that learning."},{"startTime":1521.791,"endTime":1522.916,"body":"So I love that."},{"startTime":1523.583,"endTime":1523.875,"body":"That's a great saying."},{"startTime":1523.875,"endTime":1524.875,"body":"That's a great saying."},{"startTime":1523.875,"endTime":1524.875,"body":"I want to kinda—"},{"startTime":1524.875,"endTime":1527.208,"body":"Yeah, your dad's jokes are definitely better than mine."},{"startTime":1527.208,"endTime":1530.458,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":1530.458,"endTime":1531.291,"body":"That's great."},{"startTime":1531.291,"endTime":1532.083,"body":"[laughing]"},{"startTime":1532.083,"endTime":1536.333,"body":"I want to jump back to to we've talked a lot about beliefs."},{"startTime":1536.833,"endTime":1539.25,"body":"You know, we've talked about beliefs in ourselves,"},{"startTime":1539.25,"endTime":1543.708,"body":"uh belief in this this kind of growth mindset and a willingness to change."},{"startTime":1544.333,"endTime":1549.75,"body":"And you you talked about that hero syndrome or hero assumption."},{"startTime":1550.166,"endTime":1550.458,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1550.458,"endTime":1554.458,"body":"And heroes often can be kind of frowned upon in the workplace."},{"startTime":1554.458,"endTime":1556.708,"body":"Like, you know, a leader, I have to be the hero."},{"startTime":1556.708,"endTime":1557.791,"body":"I have to save everything."},{"startTime":1558.125,"endTime":1562.875,"body":"But you kind of turned it on its ear and I was really interested in that notion of"},{"startTime":1562.875,"endTime":1567.166,"body":"the strong belief in the ability of others"},{"startTime":1567.166,"endTime":1569.458,"body":"and the power that that has."},{"startTime":1569.458,"endTime":1572.291,"body":"And I think back even growing up, that was something"},{"startTime":1572.291,"endTime":1575.083,"body":"my dad and my mom shared that"},{"startTime":1575.083,"endTime":1578.583,"body":"they had an unusually, I don't even know where it came from,"},{"startTime":1578.583,"endTime":1582.708,"body":"belief that we could do a lot more things than we believed we could."},{"startTime":1582.708,"endTime":1583.333,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":1583.333,"endTime":1585.75,"body":"In fact, they would come to us with questions"},{"startTime":1585.75,"endTime":1589.75,"body":"seeking our input to solve answers at a relatively young age."},{"startTime":1589.75,"endTime":1591.208,"body":"I'm like, why are you asking me?"},{"startTime":1591.5,"endTime":1593.0,"body":"“Well, because you come up with good ideas!”"},{"startTime":1593.416,"endTime":1596.166,"body":"You know, and so it and and that that helped"},{"startTime":1596.166,"endTime":1599.5,"body":"build a level of confidence,"},{"startTime":1599.5,"endTime":1602.833,"body":"you know, growing up and even progressing professionally and so forth."},{"startTime":1603.291,"endTime":1608.083,"body":"How do you display this for others around"},{"startTime":1608.083,"endTime":1610.291,"body":"so it doesn't sound superficial,"},{"startTime":1610.291,"endTime":1612.625,"body":"it doesn't, you know, it's still grounded in reality"},{"startTime":1612.625,"endTime":1616.5,"body":"so we're not just head in the clouds, ignoring the gaps"},{"startTime":1616.5,"endTime":1621.125,"body":"that others have, but conveying that that belief that a confidence in in others?"},{"startTime":1621.666,"endTime":1622.208,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":1622.208,"endTime":1622.958,"body":"Uh—"},{"startTime":1622.958,"endTime":1625.458,"body":"I mean, it's the so you're right."},{"startTime":1625.458,"endTime":1629.5,"body":"Like the rose colored glasses could be like too much."},{"startTime":1629.5,"endTime":1632.916,"body":"I don't think that that's not normal that's not normally the problem."},{"startTime":1632.916,"endTime":1636.5,"body":"Normally the problem is like you're you know, you're blinded to"},{"startTime":1636.5,"endTime":1638.958,"body":"the potential of the people around you."},{"startTime":1639.291,"endTime":1639.875,"body":"Um,"},{"startTime":1639.875,"endTime":1644.583,"body":"but but you, you know, you can probably over-index the other direction."},{"startTime":1644.583,"endTime":1647.958,"body":"But but my coaching to leaders and and,"},{"startTime":1647.958,"endTime":1651.041,"body":"you know, my true belief, and I've seen it, you know, a lot of times."},{"startTime":1651.041,"endTime":1655.125,"body":"I I talk about examples, you know, with our own team here"},{"startTime":1655.125,"endTime":1656.875,"body":"in the book, but"},{"startTime":1656.875,"endTime":1659.166,"body":"you know, you you don't have"},{"startTime":1659.166,"endTime":1662.083,"body":"the luxury of any other assumption because"},{"startTime":1662.083,"endTime":1665.666,"body":"you don't, you know, you need you just all you have to really do"},{"startTime":1665.666,"endTime":1669.083,"body":"is just believe in your team, believe"},{"startTime":1669.083,"endTime":1672.625,"body":"that they have room to grow, look for evidence of the"},{"startTime":1672.625,"endTime":1675.541,"body":"things that they could do, give them a little"},{"startTime":1675.541,"endTime":1678.833,"body":"bit more than than like what maybe they"},{"startTime":1678.833,"endTime":1681.791,"body":"think that they're capable of to stretch them a little bit."},{"startTime":1682.166,"endTime":1684.25,"body":"You know, it this doesn't mean,"},{"startTime":1684.25,"endTime":1687.875,"body":"you know, sending them off to go do something that they have no business doing"},{"startTime":1687.875,"endTime":1691.708,"body":"and are, you know, like that they, you know, that there's way too many steps,"},{"startTime":1691.708,"endTime":1695.0,"body":"you know, uh, for them to, you know, to stretch, but it's"},{"startTime":1695.0,"endTime":1697.958,"body":"but it is that belief that like they can they can do anything."},{"startTime":1697.958,"endTime":1700.625,"body":"They can get wherever wherever they want to get,"},{"startTime":1700.625,"endTime":1702.583,"body":"they can, you know, they can get there."},{"startTime":1702.833,"endTime":1704.875,"body":"And I tell"},{"startTime":1704.875,"endTime":1708.041,"body":"I mean, there like one example I have of this in the book is"},{"startTime":1708.041,"endTime":1711.916,"body":"is uh I talk about becoming Batman, but um"},{"startTime":1711.916,"endTime":1718.75,"body":"there there's a there's a guy who was born um with no sight and his parents"},{"startTime":1718.75,"endTime":1721.041,"body":"refused to treat him as unsighted."},{"startTime":1721.458,"endTime":1726.125,"body":"Like they they had him go play on playgrounds with his siblings and with his friends."},{"startTime":1726.458,"endTime":1731.625,"body":"They had they they I mean, they did things that like most parents"},{"startTime":1731.625,"endTime":1735.75,"body":"of a blind child would would be like aghast."},{"startTime":1736.125,"endTime":1738.583,"body":"Um, you know, your kid is going to go run into traffic."},{"startTime":1738.583,"endTime":1741.541,"body":"Your kid like your kid can't ride a bike, um,"},{"startTime":1741.541,"endTime":1745.583,"body":"you know, and they just refused to treat their son that way."},{"startTime":1745.583,"endTime":1748.5,"body":"And over time, because of that,"},{"startTime":1748.5,"endTime":1752.541,"body":"he learned to navigate with sonar, basically."},{"startTime":1752.541,"endTime":1755.708,"body":"Like he could click his tongue and the sound would reflect"},{"startTime":1755.708,"endTime":1760.625,"body":"back to him and he could essentially see the same way that like dolphins see."},{"startTime":1760.958,"endTime":1762.375,"body":"And he can ride a bike."},{"startTime":1762.375,"endTime":1766.125,"body":"He can hike in the, you know, on a hiking trail"},{"startTime":1766.125,"endTime":1770.041,"body":"without having, you know, without having any assistance."},{"startTime":1770.291,"endTime":1772.291,"body":"Uh you can set him down on a park bench and he can"},{"startTime":1772.291,"endTime":1775.416,"body":"click his tongue and he can like draw everything that is around"},{"startTime":1775.416,"endTime":1779.625,"body":"uh because his brain now transmits that sound"},{"startTime":1779.625,"endTime":1782.375,"body":"to to the visual component of his of his brain."},{"startTime":1782.666,"endTime":1785.833,"body":"Um so that's like a that's an extreme example, but that's"},{"startTime":1785.833,"endTime":1789.625,"body":"an example of where like his parents believed"},{"startTime":1789.625,"endTime":1794.291,"body":"in him and did not want to sort of limit his ability."},{"startTime":1794.583,"endTime":1798.708,"body":"And then he kind of figured out a way of, you know, seeing"},{"startTime":1798.708,"endTime":1801.291,"body":"that nobody else had figured out."},{"startTime":1801.541,"endTime":1806.625,"body":"And now they now like they train other other unsighted kids to see this way."},{"startTime":1806.916,"endTime":1810.458,"body":"So it's um so that like that's extreme example"},{"startTime":1810.458,"endTime":1815.625,"body":"but like you're you know, you as a leader, your belief in the folks around you"},{"startTime":1815.625,"endTime":1818.458,"body":"are are going to determine the reality, right?"},{"startTime":1818.458,"endTime":1821.666,"body":"And if your belief is that they can't handle this,"},{"startTime":1821.666,"endTime":1824.958,"body":"they they have too much to learn,"},{"startTime":1824.958,"endTime":1828.5,"body":"they're not really their their heart's not really into this,"},{"startTime":1828.5,"endTime":1833.125,"body":"like you are going to behave in ways that will that will lead them downward."},{"startTime":1833.541,"endTime":1836.458,"body":"And and even even if you don't really mean it."},{"startTime":1836.458,"endTime":1838.916,"body":"But like your assumptions about them,"},{"startTime":1838.916,"endTime":1840.708,"body":"they're going to change the conversations you have."},{"startTime":1840.708,"endTime":1844.833,"body":"They're going to change the behavior and that changes reality in the world."},{"startTime":1845.125,"endTime":1848.75,"body":"And then the magical thing and it's been studied over and over again."},{"startTime":1848.75,"endTime":1853.583,"body":"But if you flip that and you believe in their ability, and and sometimes you can even,"},{"startTime":1853.583,"endTime":1855.916,"body":"you know, it's kind of placebo and nocebo effect."},{"startTime":1855.916,"endTime":1859.375,"body":"Like you, you know, you you can you can talk them in"},{"startTime":1859.375,"endTime":1862.583,"body":"to growth that maybe you weren't sure that they could do,"},{"startTime":1862.583,"endTime":1864.625,"body":"and they definitely didn't think that they could do."},{"startTime":1865.041,"endTime":1869.125,"body":"So you can't you you have to make that hero assumption."},{"startTime":1870.666,"endTime":1874.291,"body":"I love that you're you're helping dive in"},{"startTime":1874.291,"endTime":1879.583,"body":"to this notion, this deeply held belief that people can rise to the occasion."},{"startTime":1879.916,"endTime":1880.333,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":1880.333,"endTime":1881.583,"body":"And and"},{"startTime":1881.583,"endTime":1884.625,"body":"to truly believe it instead of all..."},{"startTime":1884.625,"endTime":1889.916,"body":"kind of limiting what they can do with your own assumptions about them."},{"startTime":1890.208,"endTime":1892.083,"body":"Oh, they can't do this or"},{"startTime":1892.083,"endTime":1896.583,"body":"now we're not talking, you know, extreme stuff necessarily,"},{"startTime":1896.583,"endTime":1900.083,"body":"but it's like looking deep within, what are the strengths?"},{"startTime":1900.083,"endTime":1901.791,"body":"What are the what's the potential?"},{"startTime":1901.791,"endTime":1903.541,"body":"And believing it."},{"startTime":1903.541,"endTime":1907.541,"body":"And helping set people up for future success"},{"startTime":1907.541,"endTime":1911.458,"body":"in ways that they could surprise themselves, they could surprise you."},{"startTime":1911.958,"endTime":1914.125,"body":"And that that's so much at the heart of this"},{"startTime":1914.125,"endTime":1915.5,"body":"this growth mindset,"},{"startTime":1915.5,"endTime":1919.875,"body":"this ability to believe that we can do more than what we currently do."},{"startTime":1920.25,"endTime":1922.083,"body":"So, Phil, as we're kind of wrapping up here,"},{"startTime":1922.083,"endTime":1925.5,"body":"let me kind of ask you a Lightning Round question."},{"startTime":1925.5,"endTime":1929.708,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":1929.708,"endTime":1932.583,"body":"What's the one thing that a leader needs"},{"startTime":1932.583,"endTime":1935.916,"body":"to keep in mind so that they can successfully make"},{"startTime":1935.916,"endTime":1939.208,"body":"that leader-shift to a better place?"},{"startTime":1940.875,"endTime":1945.166,"body":"One of my favorites is I mean, obviously the hero assumption is critical."},{"startTime":1945.166,"endTime":1946.416,"body":"This book was originally going to be called"},{"startTime":1946.416,"endTime":1947.375,"body":"The Hero Assumption,"},{"startTime":1947.375,"endTime":1949.791,"body":"and then my editor talked,"},{"startTime":1949.791,"endTime":1952.5,"body":"you know, some sense into me and anyway, so we ended up with"},{"startTime":1952.5,"endTime":1953.625,"body":"Leader-Shift Playbook."},{"startTime":1953.625,"endTime":1956.583,"body":"But the hero assumption is is central, but"},{"startTime":1956.583,"endTime":1961.708,"body":"like a sim— like a super practical way to kind of implement that"},{"startTime":1961.708,"endTime":1964.541,"body":"is there are three questions"},{"startTime":1964.541,"endTime":1968.5,"body":"that your teammates want to know the answer to, but will never ask you."},{"startTime":1969.083,"endTime":1972.625,"body":"So so as a leader, you just need to answer these three questions."},{"startTime":1972.916,"endTime":1974.791,"body":"The first question is, do you like me?"},{"startTime":1975.666,"endTime":1978.875,"body":"Your team needs to feel like you actually like each one of them."},{"startTime":1978.875,"endTime":1981.208,"body":"There's things about them that you admire"},{"startTime":1981.208,"endTime":1983.833,"body":"um there's that you know, you personally like being around them."},{"startTime":1983.833,"endTime":1984.75,"body":"That's number one."},{"startTime":1985.041,"endTime":1989.333,"body":"The second question is, do you think I have what it takes?"},{"startTime":1989.541,"endTime":1993.0,"body":"So do you think that I'm capable, right?"},{"startTime":1993.0,"endTime":1994.208,"body":"That's the hero assumption."},{"startTime":1994.208,"endTime":1995.125,"body":"I—"},{"startTime":1995.125,"endTime":1997.333,"body":"I believe, I believe in you."},{"startTime":1997.333,"endTime":1999.875,"body":"I believe you have what it takes to be successful."},{"startTime":2000.375,"endTime":2002.541,"body":"I believe you have what it takes to be great."},{"startTime":2002.833,"endTime":2003.25,"body":"All right?"},{"startTime":2003.541,"endTime":2006.041,"body":"And then the third question that they don't ask"},{"startTime":2006.041,"endTime":2009.458,"body":"but want to know is, do you think I'm worth the effort?"},{"startTime":2010.375,"endTime":2013.666,"body":"So even if I maybe don't know"},{"startTime":2013.666,"endTime":2017.0,"body":"how to do something, but you believe I have what it takes,"},{"startTime":2017.0,"endTime":2020.291,"body":"but like, do you think I'm worth investing in?"},{"startTime":2020.791,"endTime":2024.375,"body":"And if you can answer those three questions,"},{"startTime":2024.375,"endTime":2026.708,"body":"and, you know, you don't go around going like, hey, I really"},{"startTime":2026.708,"endTime":2029.75,"body":"like you, but, you know, but, but"},{"startTime":2029.75,"endTime":2032.25,"body":"you know, talk to people about the things you admire about them."},{"startTime":2032.666,"endTime":2035.833,"body":"Um, like those answering those three questions,"},{"startTime":2035.833,"endTime":2038.291,"body":"that the hero assumption is embedded in those questions."},{"startTime":2038.291,"endTime":2039.541,"body":"They're simple questions."},{"startTime":2039.875,"endTime":2041.916,"body":"You want to know the answers to those questions"},{"startTime":2041.916,"endTime":2043.916,"body":"about people that are important to you in your life."},{"startTime":2044.291,"endTime":2045.041,"body":"Um,"},{"startTime":2045.041,"endTime":2046.291,"body":"answer those questions."},{"startTime":2046.291,"endTime":2051.125,"body":"And and you'll be— you will be doing leadership right if you can do that."},{"startTime":2052.041,"endTime":2052.416,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":2052.416,"endTime":2054.75,"body":"Phil, what a fantastic way"},{"startTime":2054.75,"endTime":2059.291,"body":"to sum this up, of building that belief in the other."},{"startTime":2060.041,"endTime":2060.416,"body":"Mm hmm."},{"startTime":2060.416,"endTime":2061.041,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2061.041,"endTime":2064.666,"body":"And thank you for joining us here today on the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":2064.666,"endTime":2066.0,"body":"It's been an absolute pleasure."},{"startTime":2066.416,"endTime":2067.083,"body":"Yeah, thanks guys."},{"startTime":2067.083,"endTime":2067.666,"body":"It was great."},{"startTime":2067.666,"endTime":2068.166,"body":"Thank you."},{"startTime":2068.958,"endTime":2069.416,"body":"Awesome."},{"startTime":2069.416,"endTime":2071.958,"body":"Well, thanks listeners for listening in"},{"startTime":2071.958,"endTime":2076.083,"body":"and/or watching for another episode of the Leadership Growth Podcast"},{"startTime":2076.083,"endTime":2080.75,"body":"where we talk about tools and ideas to help you grow your leadership ability."},{"startTime":2081.375,"endTime":2083.25,"body":"Please Like and subscribe,"},{"startTime":2083.25,"endTime":2086.875,"body":"send us any suggestions or topics for the next time,"},{"startTime":2086.875,"endTime":2089.5,"body":"and otherwise, best of luck in all you do."},{"startTime":2089.5,"endTime":2090.541,"body":"Thanks again, Phil."},{"startTime":2090.541,"endTime":2091.375,"body":"Take care, Peter."},{"startTime":2091.791,"endTime":2092.75,"body":"Take care all the listeners."},{"startTime":2092.75,"endTime":2093.416,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2093.416,"endTime":2097.916,"body":"If you like this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague or better yet,"},{"startTime":2093.416,"endTime":2097.916,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2097.916,"endTime":2100.583,"body":"leave a review to help other listeners find our show."},{"startTime":2097.916,"endTime":2100.583,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2100.583,"endTime":2101.208,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2101.208,"endTime":2103.958,"body":"And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":2101.208,"endTime":2103.958,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2103.958,"endTime":2104.791,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2104.791,"endTime":2107.041,"body":"For more great content or to learn more about how"},{"startTime":2104.791,"endTime":2107.041,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2107.041,"endTime":2110.833,"body":"Stewart Leadership can help you grow your ability to lead effectively,"},{"startTime":2107.041,"endTime":2110.833,"body":"[upbeat music]"},{"startTime":2110.833,"endTime":2113.208,"body":"please visit stewartleadership.com."},{"startTime":2110.833,"endTime":2113.208,"body":"[upbeat music]"}]}