{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":0.541,"body":"(Upbeat music)"},{"startTime":0.541,"endTime":2.666,"body":"Coming up on the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":2.666,"endTime":3.583,"body":"(Upbeat music)"},{"startTime":3.958,"endTime":7.541,"body":"When we're talking the first few days or even the first couple"},{"startTime":7.541,"endTime":11.5,"body":"weeks after significant change,"},{"startTime":11.5,"endTime":13.166,"body":"it's giving people space to vent."},{"startTime":13.916,"endTime":15.333,"body":"They're going to need to do that."},{"startTime":16.083,"endTime":17.708,"body":"And so you're monitoring as you're"},{"startTime":17.708,"endTime":20.333,"body":"having those conversations, like, what type of interaction"},{"startTime":20.333,"endTime":20.958,"body":"am I having?"},{"startTime":21.458,"endTime":23.416,"body":"And if-- let's say we're talking with one individual"},{"startTime":23.416,"endTime":26.0,"body":"and every interaction, and it's been a couple of weeks,"},{"startTime":26.0,"endTime":32.583,"body":"it's just a diatribe of hatred toward everything and everything about that's going on."},{"startTime":33.375,"endTime":34.791,"body":"It's sharing that observation."},{"startTime":35.541,"endTime":38.333,"body":"Hey, it sounds like there's a lot on your mind right now,"},{"startTime":38.333,"endTime":39.875,"body":"and there's a lot of intense emotion."},{"startTime":40.541,"endTime":42.125,"body":"I want to be here to support you."},{"startTime":42.708,"endTime":46.166,"body":"I also want to be sure we're getting things done that we need to for the job."},{"startTime":47.0,"endTime":50.041,"body":"What other resources are you able to leverage,"},{"startTime":50.041,"endTime":53.916,"body":"or how can I help connect you with some additional resources"},{"startTime":53.916,"endTime":55.958,"body":"to help work through or process through this?"},{"startTime":56.458,"endTime":60.25,"body":"And maybe they don't even recognize that that's what's happening."},{"startTime":61.208,"endTime":61.541,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":61.666,"endTime":67.375,"body":"But again, those sorts of more vulnerable human conversations aren't going to happen"},{"startTime":67.375,"endTime":69.25,"body":"if the only thing you've ever done"},{"startTime":69.25,"endTime":73.625,"body":"is talk about their task list on a spreadsheet over the months before."},{"startTime":73.916,"endTime":81.833,"body":"[Upbeat music]"},{"startTime":82.5,"endTime":85.125,"body":"Hello everyone and welcome to another episode"},{"startTime":85.125,"endTime":87.25,"body":"of the Leadership Growth Podcast."},{"startTime":87.75,"endTime":91.416,"body":"I'm your host Daniel Stewart along with my brother Peter Stewart"},{"startTime":91.416,"endTime":94.458,"body":"and together we will be your tour guides today."},{"startTime":95.375,"endTime":97.583,"body":"Tour guides? Yes. Podcast hosts."},{"startTime":97.583,"endTime":98.166,"body":"-Why not?"},{"startTime":98.458,"endTime":99.75,"body":"We can be tour guides today."},{"startTime":100.541,"endTime":101.708,"body":"We can be tour guides."},{"startTime":101.708,"endTime":102.875,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":104.083,"endTime":104.625,"body":"That's right."},{"startTime":105.125,"endTime":111.083,"body":"All things, tools, and insights to help you develop yourself into an even stronger"},{"startTime":111.083,"endTime":112.458,"body":"leader moving forward."},{"startTime":113.375,"endTime":116.416,"body":"All right, so let's talk about a Memory Lane."},{"startTime":116.791,"endTime":120.75,"body":"(Upbeat music)"},{"startTime":121.25,"endTime":124.208,"body":"So as many of you know, we grew up with a dad"},{"startTime":124.208,"endTime":125.125,"body":"who was a consultant."},{"startTime":125.666,"endTime":128.833,"body":"He started Stewart Leadership back in 1980,"},{"startTime":128.833,"endTime":130.833,"body":"back when we were little kids."},{"startTime":131.041,"endTime":132.5,"body":"We helped him over the years."},{"startTime":132.916,"endTime":136.791,"body":"So many different memories from his involving us"},{"startTime":136.791,"endTime":139.208,"body":"and he would come and talk about all of these things"},{"startTime":139.208,"endTime":141.458,"body":"he would create for clients."},{"startTime":141.958,"endTime":145.541,"body":"So Peter, share with everybody something"},{"startTime":145.541,"endTime":148.166,"body":"we were chatting about earlier that he created--"},{"startTime":148.166,"endTime":152.25,"body":"this was kind of like early versions of a simulation"},{"startTime":152.25,"endTime":155.291,"body":"before we had all the technology to do it."},{"startTime":155.791,"endTime":156.916,"body":"How did he do this one?"},{"startTime":157.625,"endTime":158.708,"body":"Very much."},{"startTime":158.708,"endTime":159.75,"body":"It is a simulation."},{"startTime":160.125,"endTime":166.0,"body":"So it's an exercise that would take a few hours for a group to do,"},{"startTime":166.0,"endTime":168.5,"body":"but it was for a fictional company called"},{"startTime":168.5,"endTime":170.583,"body":"\"Sumptuous Frozen Foods.\""},{"startTime":171.166,"endTime":173.083,"body":"And we always called this the SUMP case."},{"startTime":173.666,"endTime":177.333,"body":"In essence, the group is tasked"},{"startTime":177.333,"endTime":180.083,"body":"with designing a marketing campaign"},{"startTime":180.083,"endTime":181.916,"body":"for a new frozen food line."},{"startTime":182.958,"endTime":186.291,"body":"And it had a series of requirements that were necessary,"},{"startTime":186.291,"endTime":188.083,"body":"you know, emphasizing the healthy foods,"},{"startTime":188.083,"endTime":190.625,"body":"it was gonna taste good, all those things."},{"startTime":191.208,"endTime":194.25,"body":"Now, what the kicker is, 'cause that sounds like,"},{"startTime":194.25,"endTime":196.0,"body":"okay, great, a fun project,"},{"startTime":196.0,"endTime":198.583,"body":"even for those that are not of a marketing mind."},{"startTime":199.416,"endTime":203.416,"body":"But then over the course of this simulation,"},{"startTime":203.416,"endTime":205.666,"body":"there were memos that would come."},{"startTime":205.666,"endTime":209.416,"body":"And that term really dates what this is."},{"startTime":209.833,"endTime":212.875,"body":"Now we would call them emails or notifications or whatever,"},{"startTime":212.875,"endTime":213.875,"body":"but it was memos."},{"startTime":214.541,"endTime":218.583,"body":"And these memos would throw a wrench into the process."},{"startTime":219.375,"endTime":222.75,"body":"You know that, oh, salmonella outbreak had just come out."},{"startTime":222.75,"endTime":225.208,"body":"Now you have to figure out how to address that"},{"startTime":225.208,"endTime":226.458,"body":"in the piece."},{"startTime":227.583,"endTime":230.208,"body":"Oh, it's more detail on really, oh, now here's"},{"startTime":230.208,"endTime":231.875,"body":"how long the presentation's actually"},{"startTime":231.875,"endTime":234.0,"body":"going to be when you present this to Mr. Sump."},{"startTime":234.875,"endTime":240.041,"body":"You know, and so it's all of these variables and changes"},{"startTime":240.041,"endTime":243.5,"body":"that a team has to adapt to in what"},{"startTime":243.5,"endTime":245.666,"body":"felt like a fairly straightforward process."},{"startTime":246.583,"endTime":247.958,"body":"And that's no longer the case."},{"startTime":248.666,"endTime":253.666,"body":"And I remember distinctly, so Dad had a FedEx hat"},{"startTime":253.666,"endTime":257.416,"body":"that he would put on because he was representing"},{"startTime":257.416,"endTime":261.041,"body":"the FedEx delivery person with the latest memo."},{"startTime":261.541,"endTime":261.833,"body":"- Yes."},{"startTime":262.666,"endTime":265.041,"body":"- Now, of course, we sit back, as you mentioned,"},{"startTime":265.041,"endTime":268.291,"body":"it's emails or Teams messages or texts today,"},{"startTime":268.291,"endTime":273.416,"body":"but back then it was from a FedEx delivered package"},{"startTime":274.041,"endTime":278.0,"body":"and the team over like a four, three to four hour period"},{"startTime":278.0,"endTime":282.0,"body":"would get like 10 or 12 of these memos"},{"startTime":282.0,"endTime":286.0,"body":"every 10, 15 minutes, and it would have some sort of change in them."},{"startTime":286.541,"endTime":286.75,"body":"-Yup."},{"startTime":286.75,"endTime":289.125,"body":"And so they had to deal with working as a team,"},{"startTime":289.125,"endTime":291.75,"body":"how they dealt with change, how they dealt with all"},{"startTime":291.75,"endTime":294.458,"body":"of these changing competing priorities and demands."},{"startTime":294.916,"endTime":300.125,"body":"And eventually, they had to then present their new marketing"},{"startTime":300.125,"endTime":305.333,"body":"approach to Mr. Sump, who was the founder and CEO."},{"startTime":305.5,"endTime":308.291,"body":"And of course, dad played Mr. Sump."},{"startTime":309.416,"endTime":311.041,"body":"And so they had to present to him."},{"startTime":311.041,"endTime":314.208,"body":"and then he would grade their presentations,"},{"startTime":314.208,"endTime":318.083,"body":"and then also, of course, debrief the whole team dynamics"},{"startTime":318.083,"endTime":320.875,"body":"and managing a change earlier on."},{"startTime":321.333,"endTime":323.75,"body":"And what's fun is we've created a version of this"},{"startTime":323.75,"endTime":325.708,"body":"that we actually do run"},{"startTime":325.708,"endTime":329.208,"body":"in some of our LEAD NOW! workshops as well."},{"startTime":330.208,"endTime":333.125,"body":"So anyway, early days to pay homage to dad"},{"startTime":333.125,"endTime":335.958,"body":"and to keep these things alive,"},{"startTime":335.958,"endTime":338.666,"body":"'cause simulations are such a helpful way"},{"startTime":338.666,"endTime":340.5,"body":"of diving in and learning and practicing,"},{"startTime":340.5,"endTime":343.083,"body":"and then debriefing how the team really did."},{"startTime":343.833,"endTime":346.791,"body":"- And that latter part of the debrief after the process"},{"startTime":346.791,"endTime":349.75,"body":"is really where so much of the learning comes through"},{"startTime":349.75,"endTime":352.333,"body":"because it's really a test on how is the team functioning?"},{"startTime":353.0,"endTime":355.416,"body":"How well, what is our communication style?"},{"startTime":355.916,"endTime":357.375,"body":"You know, who's really leading this?"},{"startTime":357.75,"endTime":359.583,"body":"How flexible are we to the demands?"},{"startTime":359.958,"endTime":363.041,"body":"Are we conscious of all of the requirements"},{"startTime":363.041,"endTime":365.416,"body":"that are required and we're not losing sight?"},{"startTime":365.958,"endTime":368.208,"body":"You know, do we divide responsibilities?"},{"startTime":368.791,"endTime":370.458,"body":"You know, and who's accountable for what?"},{"startTime":370.583,"endTime":373.458,"body":"All of those components that are really important"},{"startTime":373.458,"endTime":374.958,"body":"in just standard teamwork,"},{"startTime":374.958,"endTime":378.875,"body":"but especially in teamwork in an environment"},{"startTime":378.875,"endTime":380.666,"body":"where there's a high level of change."},{"startTime":381.541,"endTime":381.833,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":382.166,"endTime":382.458,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":383.291,"endTime":385.833,"body":"- So Peter, speaking of change,"},{"startTime":385.833,"endTime":389.208,"body":"a lot of change going on in the marketplace around us,"},{"startTime":389.208,"endTime":393.25,"body":"a lot of uncertainty with the actual markets,"},{"startTime":393.25,"endTime":395.625,"body":"but then of course in the federal sector,"},{"startTime":395.625,"endTime":397.708,"body":"in the government contracting sector,"},{"startTime":397.708,"endTime":400.291,"body":"in the manufacturing sector,"},{"startTime":400.291,"endTime":402.916,"body":"tariffs are often in conversations."},{"startTime":404.041,"endTime":406.583,"body":"So many, which way do we plan?"},{"startTime":406.666,"endTime":408.375,"body":"What's the future gonna look like?"},{"startTime":409.125,"endTime":411.791,"body":"And what we're finding is,"},{"startTime":411.791,"endTime":417.833,"body":"there can be a interesting residue or a leftover effect,"},{"startTime":417.833,"endTime":418.166,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":418.166,"endTime":421.375,"body":"especially as companies lay folks off."},{"startTime":422.333,"endTime":424.416,"body":"Yes, there's a lot of support we need to provide"},{"startTime":424.416,"endTime":426.666,"body":"for those folks who are laid off."},{"startTime":427.416,"endTime":430.0,"body":"And also there's a lot of support we can provide"},{"startTime":430.0,"endTime":431.541,"body":"for those who stay."},{"startTime":432.25,"endTime":432.375,"body":"- Yeah."},{"startTime":432.791,"endTime":436.125,"body":"- And one of the interesting things that can happen"},{"startTime":436.125,"endTime":439.416,"body":"for those who stay is a feeling of guilt."},{"startTime":440.375,"endTime":443.541,"body":"This survivor guilt that people can have."},{"startTime":443.541,"endTime":447.875,"body":"And so today we wanna talk about what is survivor guilt?"},{"startTime":448.416,"endTime":452.458,"body":"What can be done to cope, to adjust,"},{"startTime":452.458,"endTime":453.875,"body":"to manage through this?"},{"startTime":454.125,"endTime":455.333,"body":"'Cause it's a real thing."},{"startTime":456.291,"endTime":460.083,"body":"As people stay and they look around and say,"},{"startTime":460.083,"endTime":464.416,"body":"how was I lucky or am I lucky for staying?"},{"startTime":464.958,"endTime":466.333,"body":"And there's all sorts of things"},{"startTime":466.333,"endTime":468.041,"body":"that can be triggered inside of them."},{"startTime":468.708,"endTime":471.0,"body":"So Peter, first of all, walk us through"},{"startTime":471.0,"endTime":473.25,"body":"when I say the word survivor guilt,"},{"startTime":473.25,"endTime":476.208,"body":"especially in terms of an organizational context"},{"startTime":476.208,"endTime":480.458,"body":"of folks who were not riffed, were not laid off,"},{"startTime":480.458,"endTime":481.625,"body":"what does that really mean?"},{"startTime":482.166,"endTime":484.75,"body":"- I think it's helping to really highlight"},{"startTime":484.75,"endTime":488.291,"body":"that reality of, sure, people hopefully"},{"startTime":488.291,"endTime":491.666,"body":"are happy that they still have a job with an organization."},{"startTime":493.208,"endTime":496.541,"body":"But then it's recognizing that now it's not"},{"startTime":496.541,"endTime":499.041,"body":"that everything is still just the same of what"},{"startTime":499.041,"endTime":502.416,"body":"it was before this riff, before the layoff,"},{"startTime":502.416,"endTime":505.666,"body":"before the series of furloughs, or whatever situation"},{"startTime":505.666,"endTime":508.791,"body":"it might be that's caused a change,"},{"startTime":508.791,"endTime":511.125,"body":"that we are now operating in a new environment."},{"startTime":512.041,"endTime":516.0,"body":"And that new environment is going to pose challenges for those that stay,"},{"startTime":516.0,"endTime":519.416,"body":"not only in the operational execution or whatever the tasks,"},{"startTime":519.416,"endTime":523.416,"body":"maybe it's reorganizations, there's new relationships they're having to build,"},{"startTime":523.416,"endTime":528.25,"body":"which takes effort, but just thinking about that thought of,"},{"startTime":528.25,"endTime":531.791,"body":"I am still here and I have colleagues,"},{"startTime":531.791,"endTime":534.125,"body":"maybe even very close friends"},{"startTime":534.125,"endTime":537.333,"body":"that I have worked with for a number of years who are not."},{"startTime":538.583,"endTime":542.791,"body":"I get up and I'm able to go to my computer if I'm working at home"},{"startTime":542.791,"endTime":545.5,"body":"or I commute into the office if I'm in the office"},{"startTime":545.5,"endTime":548.833,"body":"and I have a job and they don't."},{"startTime":550.041,"endTime":553.291,"body":"And that right there, that thought"},{"startTime":553.291,"endTime":556.666,"body":"is at the essence of where survivor guilt can start to play."},{"startTime":557.25,"endTime":563.25,"body":"It's, \"Ooh, was there something I did or didn't do that caused this to happen?”"},{"startTime":564.0,"endTime":567.166,"body":"“Should I be doing something more or different?”"},{"startTime":568.125,"endTime":570.458,"body":"“What behaviors should I be doing?”"},{"startTime":570.458,"endTime":573.958,"body":"And again, this should, should, should, should thought process,"},{"startTime":573.958,"endTime":578.708,"body":"which as we've mentioned before, is a loaded word."},{"startTime":579.375,"endTime":583.0,"body":"And that just promotes and exudes and builds the guilt."},{"startTime":583.416,"endTime":585.125,"body":"So we'll head into that a little bit more"},{"startTime":585.125,"endTime":586.833,"body":"when we talk about what to do and how to manage it."},{"startTime":587.625,"endTime":590.875,"body":"But what else would you add, Daniel, as you think about"},{"startTime":590.875,"endTime":593.916,"body":"us defining this experience and this,"},{"startTime":593.916,"endTime":596.666,"body":"you know, capturing what survivor guilt is."},{"startTime":597.208,"endTime":600.583,"body":"This tendency that we have to put the blame"},{"startTime":600.583,"endTime":604.666,"body":"on ourselves and to over personalize that blame,"},{"startTime":604.666,"endTime":607.458,"body":"and then also to separate and feel"},{"startTime":607.458,"endTime":611.291,"body":"alone and wonder what are we experiencing?"},{"startTime":611.833,"endTime":615.416,"body":"And so I guess the first thing I want to emphasize is,"},{"startTime":615.416,"endTime":618.458,"body":"if you have those friends,"},{"startTime":618.458,"endTime":622.291,"body":"colleagues who have been laid off in some way,"},{"startTime":622.291,"endTime":624.541,"body":"are no longer with the organization,"},{"startTime":624.541,"endTime":627.791,"body":"and it was, it could have been a sudden thing"},{"startTime":627.791,"endTime":630.25,"body":"or something you don't agree with,"},{"startTime":630.25,"endTime":631.375,"body":"but nonetheless, you're there."},{"startTime":632.208,"endTime":636.083,"body":"What you're experiencing is not alone to you."},{"startTime":636.333,"endTime":638.291,"body":"It's not, you're the only one."},{"startTime":638.916,"endTime":640.416,"body":"So that's something I want to emphasize."},{"startTime":640.833,"endTime":643.458,"body":"And yes, survivor guilt is a real thing."},{"startTime":644.208,"endTime":647.0,"body":"And you can acknowledge it and allow"},{"startTime":647.0,"endTime":649.166,"body":"yourself to kind of process and say,"},{"startTime":649.166,"endTime":651.791,"body":"yep, that's what I think I'm experiencing,"},{"startTime":651.791,"endTime":656.291,"body":"whether it's 30 minutes or days or weeks or months,"},{"startTime":656.291,"endTime":658.833,"body":"it can last, it can take different shapes"},{"startTime":658.833,"endTime":660.416,"body":"and different forms for each person."},{"startTime":661.125,"endTime":667.458,"body":"But the idea of grieving over this loss is real"},{"startTime":667.458,"endTime":672.5,"body":"and we're emotional creatures and we have these emotions"},{"startTime":672.5,"endTime":676.0,"body":"and it's okay, it's okay, you're not alone."},{"startTime":677.25,"endTime":680.083,"body":"Identify it, be aware of this"},{"startTime":680.083,"endTime":685.125,"body":"and the feelings of guilt or of just change"},{"startTime":685.125,"endTime":686.791,"body":"and not knowing what to do"},{"startTime":686.791,"endTime":691.333,"body":"and feeling kind of stuck in the moment, healthy, normal."},{"startTime":691.875,"endTime":694.833,"body":"And in fact, you want to embrace it and understand it."},{"startTime":696.0,"endTime":699.291,"body":"And we're gonna then share with you some approaches"},{"startTime":699.291,"endTime":702.083,"body":"to be able to cope through this, manage through this,"},{"startTime":702.083,"endTime":704.458,"body":"be able to reframe it perhaps"},{"startTime":704.458,"endTime":706.833,"body":"so that you can show up as your best self"},{"startTime":706.833,"endTime":709.708,"body":"because other people around you need you."},{"startTime":710.666,"endTime":712.666,"body":"They need you to set a different tone."},{"startTime":713.333,"endTime":716.375,"body":"And the other thing I'll mention is"},{"startTime":716.375,"endTime":721.916,"body":"for you to recognize that life is not gonna be the same"},{"startTime":721.916,"endTime":725.083,"body":"and treating it like it is the same"},{"startTime":725.083,"endTime":728.833,"body":"actually may not be as helpful for you and others"},{"startTime":728.833,"endTime":731.625,"body":"because the evidence is all around that it's not."},{"startTime":732.25,"endTime":734.916,"body":"Let's acknowledge this situation"},{"startTime":734.916,"endTime":737.416,"body":"and acknowledge the emotions that come with it."},{"startTime":737.666,"endTime":738.041,"body":"-Mm hmm."},{"startTime":738.375,"endTime":740.25,"body":"And that acknowledgement, I think is key."},{"startTime":740.5,"endTime":742.041,"body":"I think that's really kind of step one."},{"startTime":742.041,"endTime":744.333,"body":"That's the first suggestion we'll share"},{"startTime":744.333,"endTime":746.333,"body":"for those that are experiencing it."},{"startTime":746.791,"endTime":749.0,"body":"And it's that acceptance"},{"startTime":749.0,"endTime":750.75,"body":"and that acknowledgement without judgment."},{"startTime":751.708,"endTime":754.083,"body":"Because as we talk about this term survivor guilt,"},{"startTime":754.083,"endTime":757.458,"body":"it was first put out in the psychological literature"},{"startTime":757.458,"endTime":761.208,"body":"after significant moments of trauma, accidents."},{"startTime":761.541,"endTime":765.708,"body":"You know, it might be a plane crash or a car accident or things like that,"},{"startTime":765.708,"endTime":770.041,"body":"where certain people died and others survived."},{"startTime":770.75,"endTime":775.208,"body":"And it was this phenomenon that why would those that are still living"},{"startTime":775.208,"endTime":776.541,"body":"experience this guilt?"},{"startTime":777.333,"endTime":779.166,"body":"But it happens and it's occurring."},{"startTime":779.333,"endTime":781.291,"body":"It's happened for decades and years."},{"startTime":781.291,"endTime":785.916,"body":"And I would argue since humans have been around, because we are connected."},{"startTime":786.958,"endTime":793.708,"body":"So first it's acknowledging it doesn't matter the severity of the change that's gone on."},{"startTime":794.208,"endTime":798.375,"body":"If you're experiencing that sense of guilt, own it and call it survivor guilt."},{"startTime":799.0,"endTime":804.083,"body":"You don't have to be in a catastrophic plane crash or something else to experience it."},{"startTime":804.791,"endTime":809.458,"body":"And so then when you acknowledge that and are trying to free the judgment of it,"},{"startTime":809.458,"endTime":813.458,"body":"it's owning it saying, \"Okay, my emotions are feeling this way."},{"startTime":815.0,"endTime":817.833,"body":"How can I acknowledge that,"},{"startTime":817.833,"endTime":821.583,"body":"understand what may be contributing to it,"},{"startTime":821.583,"endTime":824.333,"body":"and now we can move forward on what do I do with it?"},{"startTime":827.083,"endTime":828.416,"body":"It's a great point."},{"startTime":829.041,"endTime":831.75,"body":"And so just let's talk just for a moment."},{"startTime":831.75,"endTime":834.208,"body":"So first of all, acknowledging it,"},{"startTime":834.208,"endTime":837.833,"body":"and whether it's capital T trauma, lower key—"},{"startTime":837.833,"endTime":840.708,"body":"lower t trauma, however you want to approach it,"},{"startTime":840.708,"endTime":843.833,"body":"there is something happening as you're reacting to this."},{"startTime":844.333,"endTime":846.916,"body":"And you were, before we started the program, Peter,"},{"startTime":846.916,"endTime":851.208,"body":"you were mentioning some very helpful insights as well that"},{"startTime":851.208,"endTime":857.041,"body":"these moments can be triggering for us based upon other aspects in our life."},{"startTime":857.541,"endTime":862.333,"body":"And that is important to also recognize as we're coping, as we're processing."},{"startTime":862.666,"endTime":867.0,"body":"So talk a little bit about some of these other triggering moments"},{"startTime":867.0,"endTime":872.333,"body":"that we should be aware of as we remain in the organization and others don't."},{"startTime":873.125,"endTime":877.791,"body":"Yeah, and it's triggers that come through whether that we experiencing them ourselves"},{"startTime":877.791,"endTime":879.666,"body":"or they are vicarious triggers."},{"startTime":880.291,"endTime":884.458,"body":"Because we know somebody else is experiencing an emotion or an experience"},{"startTime":884.458,"endTime":887.5,"body":"somewhat analogous to something that we have been through in the past."},{"startTime":888.166,"endTime":890.916,"body":"It now brings up those feelings in us."},{"startTime":891.583,"endTime":897.958,"body":"Feelings of abandonment, feelings of loss, feelings of significant change, of sadness,"},{"startTime":897.958,"endTime":900.666,"body":"of loneliness, of hopelessness."},{"startTime":901.541,"endTime":903.958,"body":"And so that's where those triggers can come."},{"startTime":905.125,"endTime":909.5,"body":"And even if in this circumstance, we still have our job."},{"startTime":909.916,"endTime":913.5,"body":"I mean, we're talking about survivor guilt because"},{"startTime":913.5,"endTime":916.75,"body":"you are a survivor of a significant change."},{"startTime":917.333,"endTime":923.916,"body":"Nevertheless, it can still bring in those feelings of past trauma."},{"startTime":924.166,"endTime":929.25,"body":"Like you say, big T, little t, we're not going to judge on how that is perceived in you."},{"startTime":930.0,"endTime":931.833,"body":"But it's that acknowledgement of,"},{"startTime":931.833,"endTime":936.333,"body":"ooh, this is bringing up some past emotions and feelings"},{"startTime":936.333,"endTime":941.166,"body":"that maybe you thought were buried, maybe you thought wouldn't come up again."},{"startTime":941.166,"endTime":944.75,"body":"So it's acknowledgement of what the current emotional experience is,"},{"startTime":944.75,"endTime":947.958,"body":"but it very well could be the triggers from things in the past,"},{"startTime":947.958,"endTime":952.833,"body":"as well as those vicarious triggers that other people are going through."},{"startTime":953.916,"endTime":956.458,"body":"And so because you have empathy,"},{"startTime":956.458,"endTime":959.666,"body":"because you're trying to understand and see their perspective,"},{"startTime":959.666,"endTime":962.75,"body":"now you are reliving some of that as well."},{"startTime":963.5,"endTime":964.708,"body":"That's a great point."},{"startTime":965.166,"endTime":967.5,"body":"And this leads to kind of the second idea,"},{"startTime":967.5,"endTime":974.208,"body":"the first being acknowledging that there is a survivor guilt that you may be feeling."},{"startTime":974.458,"endTime":977.666,"body":"The second is to communicate openly."},{"startTime":978.416,"endTime":984.5,"body":"It's interesting, we often can have a reaction as humans to kind of withdraw,"},{"startTime":984.5,"endTime":987.458,"body":"to kind of say, \"We can hack it.\""},{"startTime":988.041,"endTime":990.291,"body":"And whether that's the overly masculine,"},{"startTime":990.291,"endTime":993.416,"body":"\"Oh, I can, you know, hammer through something,\""},{"startTime":993.416,"endTime":997.666,"body":"which is not a helpful practice, oftentimes,"},{"startTime":997.666,"endTime":1003.25,"body":"to be able to then actually do an alternative way and to communicate more openly."},{"startTime":1003.791,"endTime":1004.083,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":1004.083,"endTime":1006.916,"body":"Communicate what you're feeling, what you're thinking."},{"startTime":1007.458,"endTime":1009.875,"body":"And this is where you can have trusted colleagues."},{"startTime":1010.708,"endTime":1014.458,"body":"A spouse, a friend, somebody at work, a mentor, a coach."},{"startTime":1015.041,"endTime":1017.791,"body":"You need somebody to be able to then express"},{"startTime":1017.791,"endTime":1022.458,"body":"and work through some of these emotional reactions that you are having."},{"startTime":1023.125,"endTime":1025.708,"body":"It is very hard to do this alone."},{"startTime":1026.5,"endTime":1028.166,"body":"And that doesn't mean that we're weak."},{"startTime":1028.708,"endTime":1029.833,"body":"It means we're human."},{"startTime":1030.375,"endTime":1033.666,"body":"And we need to be able to communicate openly to process things,"},{"startTime":1033.666,"endTime":1036.083,"body":"to understand how we're reacting,"},{"startTime":1036.083,"endTime":1041.333,"body":"so that we can manage our own emotions well enough to show up for others."},{"startTime":1041.791,"endTime":1042.125,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":1042.625,"endTime":1045.958,"body":"And you hope in that as you're building and tapping into those"},{"startTime":1045.958,"endTime":1048.666,"body":"various circles of social support around you."},{"startTime":1049.416,"endTime":1051.791,"body":"Hopefully there are some outside of work you have,"},{"startTime":1051.791,"endTime":1053.916,"body":"as you mentioned, significant others, family,"},{"startTime":1053.916,"endTime":1056.583,"body":"friends that you can talk about this this with,"},{"startTime":1056.583,"endTime":1059.916,"body":"but also you hope that there are those at work"},{"startTime":1059.916,"endTime":1063.875,"body":"that you may have built or opportunities to build now,"},{"startTime":1063.875,"endTime":1067.125,"body":"some relationships of a common experience"},{"startTime":1067.125,"endTime":1069.625,"body":"of \"Hey, how are you coping through this?\""},{"startTime":1070.416,"endTime":1073.458,"body":"You know, the fact that there used to be ten around,"},{"startTime":1073.458,"endTime":1076.375,"body":"and now there's only four of us, you know,"},{"startTime":1076.375,"endTime":1078.208,"body":"or whatever the circumstance might be."},{"startTime":1078.666,"endTime":1082.666,"body":"So it's communicating with that support system outside of work,"},{"startTime":1082.666,"endTime":1085.958,"body":"but also seeking to try and build that inside work."},{"startTime":1085.958,"endTime":1089.958,"body":"And even if it's just one or two co-workers"},{"startTime":1089.958,"endTime":1093.791,"body":"that you're able to have that vulnerable brave conversation with"},{"startTime":1093.791,"endTime":1096.875,"body":"to say, \"Hey, I'm kind of struggling with this here."},{"startTime":1097.333,"endTime":1099.208,"body":"I'm not quite sure what to make of it."},{"startTime":1099.208,"endTime":1101.375,"body":"I haven't really felt this way in a long time"},{"startTime":1101.375,"endTime":1105.708,"body":"or “it seems kind of weird, but yeah, like"},{"startTime":1105.708,"endTime":1108.708,"body":"is... should I feel guilty about what I'm feeling right now?”"},{"startTime":1108.708,"endTime":1110.0,"body":"And again, there goes that should."},{"startTime":1110.0,"endTime":1113.791,"body":"So I'm gonna go off on a little tangent for a second on the word should."},{"startTime":1115.333,"endTime":1124.166,"body":"Should puts pressure, burden, and obligation on actions that we do,"},{"startTime":1124.166,"endTime":1126.041,"body":"oftentimes, which is unnecessary."},{"startTime":1127.541,"endTime":1131.458,"body":"Replacing the word should in our thoughts and in our vocabulary"},{"startTime":1131.458,"endTime":1137.541,"body":"with the word \"could\" alleviates so much of that pressure and burden."},{"startTime":1138.708,"endTime":1141.166,"body":"So I should be reaching out to them."},{"startTime":1143.166,"endTime":1145.0,"body":"Yeah, that may be an option."},{"startTime":1145.958,"endTime":1148.916,"body":"Why is it a \"should\"? You could."},{"startTime":1149.791,"endTime":1152.791,"body":"You could. You could because you're trying to balance a million other things."},{"startTime":1153.875,"endTime":1158.041,"body":"And yes, that might be nice, but is that going to happen?"},{"startTime":1158.375,"endTime":1162.791,"body":"Is it an absolute necessity for you to reach out to that person who's left?"},{"startTime":1164.333,"endTime":1165.333,"body":"You could do it."},{"startTime":1166.5,"endTime":1167.416,"body":"You could try."},{"startTime":1167.416,"endTime":1169.208,"body":"So I think it's just catching ourselves."},{"startTime":1169.666,"endTime":1172.25,"body":"And this extends beyond just survivor guilt."},{"startTime":1172.25,"endTime":1176.166,"body":"I think watching that word \"should\" is powerful."},{"startTime":1176.166,"endTime":1178.0,"body":"And just change the S to a C."},{"startTime":1178.458,"endTime":1179.0,"body":"I could."},{"startTime":1180.0,"endTime":1180.416,"body":"I could."},{"startTime":1181.125,"endTime":1183.375,"body":"It's a great simple tool to keep in mind."},{"startTime":1183.375,"endTime":1185.625,"body":"And you're reminding me through this conversation,"},{"startTime":1185.625,"endTime":1189.166,"body":"years ago I heard that the best advice is,"},{"startTime":1189.166,"endTime":1192.958,"body":"if you're down and out, raise up your voice and shout,"},{"startTime":1192.958,"endTime":1194.125,"body":"“I'm down and out!”"},{"startTime":1194.125,"endTime":1196.583,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":1196.583,"endTime":1199.041,"body":"And when I heard that, I'm like,"},{"startTime":1199.041,"endTime":1200.958,"body":"oh, that's remarkably simple."},{"startTime":1201.458,"endTime":1203.416,"body":"And yet when we're down and out,"},{"startTime":1203.416,"endTime":1206.041,"body":"the last thing we sometimes wanna do is shout out,"},{"startTime":1206.041,"endTime":1206.75,"body":"I'm down and out."},{"startTime":1207.541,"endTime":1209.916,"body":"It's helpful to be able to get this out."},{"startTime":1210.333,"endTime":1212.208,"body":"And so as you're acknowledging it,"},{"startTime":1212.208,"endTime":1215.166,"body":"as we're communicating more about this,"},{"startTime":1215.166,"endTime":1218.291,"body":"The next thing that would be really powerful to do"},{"startTime":1218.291,"endTime":1220.833,"body":"is focus on your role."},{"startTime":1221.666,"endTime":1225.25,"body":"Get clarity as much as possible around what you can do"},{"startTime":1225.25,"endTime":1229.541,"body":"to make a difference each day to the end user."},{"startTime":1229.875,"endTime":1232.458,"body":"If that's an internal client, it's an external client."},{"startTime":1232.833,"endTime":1233.708,"body":"What is your role?"},{"startTime":1234.416,"endTime":1236.458,"body":"What can you control about the role?"},{"startTime":1236.916,"endTime":1240.25,"body":"What can you focus on so that you can feel"},{"startTime":1240.25,"endTime":1244.041,"body":"some level of success, some level of stability,"},{"startTime":1244.041,"endTime":1245.75,"body":"some level of predictability."},{"startTime":1246.208,"endTime":1248.125,"body":"And you might be hearing this, listeners,"},{"startTime":1248.125,"endTime":1252.125,"body":"and going, \"Yeah, exactly, I have no idea what my role is.\""},{"startTime":1252.125,"endTime":1253.75,"body":"And that's the very problem."},{"startTime":1254.458,"endTime":1257.458,"body":"And so I say to you, \"Okay, get it.\""},{"startTime":1257.875,"endTime":1261.666,"body":"And yet, at the essence, what are three things"},{"startTime":1261.666,"endTime":1263.916,"body":"that you still know are part of your role?"},{"startTime":1265.166,"endTime":1266.458,"body":"How do you focus on those?"},{"startTime":1267.416,"endTime":1268.875,"body":"And what's one or two things"},{"startTime":1268.875,"endTime":1270.25,"body":"that maybe you're not sure about?"},{"startTime":1270.75,"endTime":1273.583,"body":"And what aspects of those can you move forward with?"},{"startTime":1274.208,"endTime":1277.708,"body":"Because there's always things that you can keep moving on."},{"startTime":1278.5,"endTime":1281.708,"body":"And if you're not certain, push those aside for a moment"},{"startTime":1281.708,"endTime":1285.5,"body":"until you can get clarification or design a plan"},{"startTime":1285.5,"endTime":1288.333,"body":"to then help you get clarification as much as possible."},{"startTime":1288.791,"endTime":1293.708,"body":"And don't expect pure clarity across everything,"},{"startTime":1293.708,"endTime":1295.583,"body":"but rather what are the couple of things"},{"startTime":1295.583,"endTime":1299.916,"body":"that you can hold onto so that you can still add value?"},{"startTime":1300.625,"endTime":1301.0,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":1301.5,"endTime":1306.875,"body":"Especially in these environments where the first wave or the second wave of"},{"startTime":1306.875,"endTime":1312.083,"body":"change or layoffs or movements, we don't know how many waves there might be."},{"startTime":1313.375,"endTime":1318.208,"body":"So we're not talking about, \"Oh, okay, here's the one change and now everything's"},{"startTime":1318.208,"endTime":1320.083,"body":"going to come back to a point of stability.\""},{"startTime":1321.25,"endTime":1323.375,"body":"We don't know how many waves are going to come."},{"startTime":1324.0,"endTime":1329.75,"body":"And so what you're highlighting is how do we harness and channel our energy,"},{"startTime":1329.75,"endTime":1334.958,"body":"helping to transfer energy from feelings and thoughts of guilt"},{"startTime":1334.958,"endTime":1337.625,"body":"to what can I do?"},{"startTime":1338.416,"endTime":1339.708,"body":"How can I be productive?"},{"startTime":1340.541,"endTime":1341.708,"body":"How can I contribute?"},{"startTime":1342.291,"endTime":1345.541,"body":"And so that also pulls on a sense of purpose of like,"},{"startTime":1345.541,"endTime":1348.666,"body":"what is our purpose in our role at that point?"},{"startTime":1349.25,"endTime":1353.875,"body":"What is the function we are fulfilling that we are tasked with executing, with doing?"},{"startTime":1354.0,"endTime":1356.375,"body":"So it's trying to clarify as much as we can."},{"startTime":1357.333,"endTime":1361.833,"body":"Maybe there is some restructuring within a team or an organization or a group or"},{"startTime":1361.833,"endTime":1365.166,"body":"swim lanes that might be a little more blurred because,"},{"startTime":1365.166,"endTime":1367.208,"body":"all right, now we're having to backfill"},{"startTime":1367.208,"endTime":1369.833,"body":"jobs that others used to do and so forth."},{"startTime":1370.916,"endTime":1375.25,"body":"Your counsel, Daniel, pick three things that you know are certain,"},{"startTime":1375.25,"endTime":1378.625,"body":"that are clear and focus and move forward on that."},{"startTime":1379.041,"endTime":1382.916,"body":"And that should buy some days or even some weeks as you're going."},{"startTime":1383.583,"endTime":1389.916,"body":"And then that leads into that opportunity to have conversation as the dust settles"},{"startTime":1389.916,"endTime":1392.0,"body":"at periods of time,"},{"startTime":1392.0,"endTime":1396.875,"body":"as the new normal begins to become a little bit more clear, or I should say"},{"startTime":1396.875,"endTime":1397.791,"body":"the next normal."},{"startTime":1400.708,"endTime":1404.208,"body":"This also leads into this next idea of..."},{"startTime":1404.208,"endTime":1409.625,"body":"of supporting your colleagues who are still there with you"},{"startTime":1409.625,"endTime":1411.708,"body":"on your team, in your organization."},{"startTime":1413.0,"endTime":1420.708,"body":"And it's overused, but the airplane oxygen mask notion is first do yours,"},{"startTime":1420.708,"endTime":1423.833,"body":"and then you're able to help support others."},{"startTime":1424.416,"endTime":1430.958,"body":"So as you understand your role, what you can focus on, it then leads to the next step,"},{"startTime":1430.958,"endTime":1434.375,"body":"which is how to then support others around you."},{"startTime":1434.875,"endTime":1436.125,"body":"How do you support the colleagues?"},{"startTime":1436.833,"endTime":1440.75,"body":"And this does not mean setting up a very lengthy list,"},{"startTime":1440.75,"endTime":1442.666,"body":"and you're with everybody all the time,"},{"startTime":1442.666,"endTime":1444.0,"body":"and you're listening for hours"},{"startTime":1444.0,"endTime":1446.166,"body":"and you're not doing anything for yourself."},{"startTime":1446.791,"endTime":1451.375,"body":"No, what we're talking about is what are a few ways"},{"startTime":1451.375,"endTime":1454.5,"body":"you can show up for your colleagues"},{"startTime":1454.5,"endTime":1456.333,"body":"in moments that matter to them."},{"startTime":1457.25,"endTime":1461.833,"body":"You cannot just spend every moment with others,"},{"startTime":1461.833,"endTime":1464.25,"body":"maybe the first day or two, a little bit,"},{"startTime":1464.25,"endTime":1466.5,"body":"but what we're talking about is ongoing."},{"startTime":1467.333,"endTime":1469.5,"body":"So Peter, as you're hearing this idea"},{"startTime":1469.5,"endTime":1473.916,"body":"of supporting colleagues, how does it look"},{"startTime":1473.916,"endTime":1476.916,"body":"as one balances their own needs"},{"startTime":1476.916,"endTime":1479.583,"body":"and working through their own challenges"},{"startTime":1479.583,"endTime":1481.958,"body":"at the same time while supporting others?"},{"startTime":1482.791,"endTime":1485.833,"body":"- Yeah, I think it looks a little bit different"},{"startTime":1485.833,"endTime":1487.666,"body":"based on the perspective you're taking"},{"startTime":1487.666,"endTime":1489.083,"body":"or even the role that you have."},{"startTime":1489.916,"endTime":1492.958,"body":"Sure, you wanna reach out, you wanna be talking to them,"},{"startTime":1492.958,"endTime":1494.166,"body":"you know, giving that opportunity"},{"startTime":1494.166,"endTime":1497.166,"body":"to just have non-work conversation."},{"startTime":1498.083,"endTime":1500.041,"body":"But I think let's take a minute and think about it"},{"startTime":1500.041,"endTime":1502.791,"body":"from that perspective of a manager"},{"startTime":1502.791,"endTime":1504.333,"body":"looking after their team."},{"startTime":1505.375,"endTime":1508.666,"body":"You know, are there opportunities for those one-on-ones?"},{"startTime":1508.958,"endTime":1510.666,"body":"And as you engage with them,"},{"startTime":1510.666,"endTime":1512.416,"body":"sure, you're trying to help clarify their roles,"},{"startTime":1512.416,"endTime":1515.166,"body":"you're trying to help them work through it,"},{"startTime":1515.166,"endTime":1517.25,"body":"but also are you checking in,"},{"startTime":1517.25,"endTime":1518.375,"body":"hey, how are you doing?"},{"startTime":1519.833,"endTime":1523.875,"body":"You know, anything I can do to help with this?"},{"startTime":1524.083,"endTime":1527.375,"body":"You know, it's that —it's just having those very human conversations."},{"startTime":1527.958,"endTime":1534.25,"body":"So I think at a manager level, checking in with that, but then at that level as a colleague"},{"startTime":1534.25,"endTime":1540.625,"body":"with our teammates, it's those conversations of, \"Hey, do you want to grab lunch?"},{"startTime":1541.416,"endTime":1541.708,"body":"Let's talk."},{"startTime":1541.708,"endTime":1543.25,"body":"Do you want to get a cup of coffee?\""},{"startTime":1543.583,"endTime":1550.625,"body":"If it's virtual, \"Hey, let's just have a little chat time to check in here for 15 minutes."},{"startTime":1551.625,"endTime":1552.791,"body":"What are you doing this weekend?”"},{"startTime":1553.416,"endTime":1555.083,"body":"You know, “how's the family doing?”"},{"startTime":1555.541,"endTime":1559.25,"body":"You know, it's those little conversations"},{"startTime":1559.25,"endTime":1562.25,"body":"that really don't have anything to do with the task at hand,"},{"startTime":1562.25,"endTime":1564.25,"body":"but it builds those relationships."},{"startTime":1565.416,"endTime":1568.291,"body":"What would you add, Daniel, in terms of little things"},{"startTime":1568.291,"endTime":1570.458,"body":"that you can do to help support each other?"},{"startTime":1571.0,"endTime":1573.708,"body":"- Well, and I had a question for you around this,"},{"startTime":1573.708,"endTime":1577.791,"body":"'cause how do you balance between the empathy"},{"startTime":1577.791,"endTime":1580.083,"body":"and the listening and the venting?"},{"startTime":1581.0,"endTime":1584.0,"body":"And at what point do you balance that with,"},{"startTime":1584.0,"endTime":1586.708,"body":"and let's focus on the two or three things"},{"startTime":1586.708,"endTime":1590.0,"body":"that you can control so that you can act"},{"startTime":1590.0,"endTime":1592.75,"body":"and that you remember you have choices and options."},{"startTime":1593.458,"endTime":1595.916,"body":"How do you balance between these two things?"},{"startTime":1596.416,"endTime":1600.458,"body":"Because sometimes that venting can then get into gossip"},{"startTime":1600.458,"endTime":1605.791,"body":"and then it just snowballs into maybe unhealthy levels"},{"startTime":1605.791,"endTime":1608.916,"body":"of emotion that are really hard to come back from."},{"startTime":1609.416,"endTime":1612.625,"body":"Maybe they need to come out a little bit,"},{"startTime":1612.625,"endTime":1616.166,"body":"but to not stay there for so long,"},{"startTime":1616.166,"endTime":1618.666,"body":"to help work through it"},{"startTime":1618.666,"endTime":1620.583,"body":"so that we can get to a better place."},{"startTime":1620.958,"endTime":1622.0,"body":"How do you balance that?"},{"startTime":1622.958,"endTime":1624.291,"body":"- I think a lot of it has to do"},{"startTime":1624.291,"endTime":1627.0,"body":"with proximity to the event."},{"startTime":1628.708,"endTime":1631.125,"body":"When we're talking the first few days"},{"startTime":1631.125,"endTime":1636.291,"body":"or even the first couple of weeks after significant change,"},{"startTime":1636.291,"endTime":1637.916,"body":"it's giving people space to vent."},{"startTime":1638.625,"endTime":1640.083,"body":"They're going to need to do that."},{"startTime":1640.791,"endTime":1643.625,"body":"And so you're monitoring as you're having those conversations,"},{"startTime":1643.625,"endTime":1645.75,"body":"like, what type of interaction am I having?"},{"startTime":1646.125,"endTime":1648.25,"body":"And if, let's say, we're talking with one individual"},{"startTime":1648.25,"endTime":1650.875,"body":"and every interaction-- and it's been a couple of weeks,"},{"startTime":1650.875,"endTime":1654.958,"body":"it's just a diatribe of hatred toward everything"},{"startTime":1654.958,"endTime":1658.125,"body":"and everything that's going on--"},{"startTime":1658.125,"endTime":1659.541,"body":"it's sharing that observation."},{"startTime":1660.333,"endTime":1662.916,"body":"Hey, it sounds like there's a lot on your mind right now."},{"startTime":1663.125,"endTime":1664.625,"body":"And there's a lot of intense emotion."},{"startTime":1665.375,"endTime":1666.833,"body":"I want to be here to support you."},{"startTime":1667.5,"endTime":1670.916,"body":"I also want to be sure we're getting things done that we need to for the job."},{"startTime":1671.791,"endTime":1676.625,"body":"What other resources are you able to leverage or how can I help connect you"},{"startTime":1676.625,"endTime":1680.75,"body":"with some additional resources to help work through or process through this?"},{"startTime":1681.875,"endTime":1685.708,"body":"And maybe they don't even recognize that that's what's happening."},{"startTime":1686.541,"endTime":1686.916,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":1687.083,"endTime":1692.791,"body":"But again, those sorts of more vulnerable human conversations aren't going to happen"},{"startTime":1692.791,"endTime":1697.25,"body":"if the only thing you've ever done is talk about their task list on a spreadsheet"},{"startTime":1697.25,"endTime":1698.125,"body":"(laughing)"},{"startTime":1698.125,"endTime":1699.208,"body":"over the months before."},{"startTime":1700.5,"endTime":1705.916,"body":"But it is, it's always monitoring what's, how often is this style of interaction occurring?"},{"startTime":1705.916,"endTime":1707.791,"body":"What's the proximity to the event?"},{"startTime":1708.166,"endTime":1713.166,"body":"And how much is it taking over, getting in the way of them accomplishing their role?"},{"startTime":1713.166,"endTime":1716.5,"body":"You're balancing those because every human is different."},{"startTime":1716.875,"endTime":1718.25,"body":"Every need is different."},{"startTime":1718.625,"endTime":1722.75,"body":"And some personalities are going to stretch your empathetic"},{"startTime":1722.75,"endTime":1727.333,"body":"heart and ears a little bit more,"},{"startTime":1727.333,"endTime":1729.916,"body":"which is why you as the leader also need to be sure"},{"startTime":1729.916,"endTime":1734.75,"body":"you've got some support and colleagues that you can kind of bounce ideas off of"},{"startTime":1734.75,"endTime":1737.333,"body":"so that you're not feeling like you're the only source of information."},{"startTime":1738.416,"endTime":1741.166,"body":"You know, it's like, \"Hey, I've..."},{"startTime":1741.166,"endTime":1744.625,"body":"One of my team is like every interaction for the past couple of weeks, it's like"},{"startTime":1744.625,"endTime":1747.041,"body":"just such this intense complaining."},{"startTime":1747.291,"endTime":1747.833,"body":"What have you done?"},{"startTime":1747.833,"endTime":1749.0,"body":"Do you have folks like that?"},{"startTime":1749.625,"endTime":1750.416,"body":"What are you doing?\""},{"startTime":1751.416,"endTime":1752.166,"body":"That sort of thing."},{"startTime":1752.458,"endTime":1753.041,"body":"What would you add?"},{"startTime":1754.166,"endTime":1759.291,"body":"Well, this gets at the broader topic of self-care in general."},{"startTime":1759.708,"endTime":1765.083,"body":"And we've kind of been hinting at that term for the entire episode here."},{"startTime":1765.625,"endTime":1770.083,"body":"It's really helping taking stock in terms of what you need."},{"startTime":1770.791,"endTime":1776.166,"body":"And I mentioned earlier that life is not going to be the same after,"},{"startTime":1776.166,"endTime":1780.25,"body":"and if you treat it the same, you might not actually be doing yourself a favor."},{"startTime":1780.583,"endTime":1785.333,"body":"And that does not mean maybe your daily routines might persist,"},{"startTime":1785.333,"endTime":1787.791,"body":"but you might be a little different."},{"startTime":1788.458,"endTime":1791.958,"body":"Or you might need to do some different activities,"},{"startTime":1791.958,"endTime":1794.375,"body":"even self-care approach,"},{"startTime":1794.375,"endTime":1797.166,"body":"so that you can show up as your best self."},{"startTime":1797.583,"endTime":1802.083,"body":"In other words, don't just assume your existing routines, you just keep persisting."},{"startTime":1802.666,"endTime":1806.208,"body":"You may need to, frankly, sleep a little bit more."},{"startTime":1806.708,"endTime":1810.333,"body":"You might need to end at five o'clock"},{"startTime":1810.333,"endTime":1814.166,"body":"and go on a half hour hour walk every night"},{"startTime":1814.166,"endTime":1815.291,"body":"to clear your mind."},{"startTime":1815.708,"endTime":1818.291,"body":"You might need to spend an extra 15, 20 minutes"},{"startTime":1818.291,"endTime":1820.916,"body":"in the gym in the morning as you're working out."},{"startTime":1821.5,"endTime":1824.208,"body":"You might need to spend a little time in the evening"},{"startTime":1824.208,"endTime":1826.166,"body":"talking to family and friends."},{"startTime":1826.75,"endTime":1830.541,"body":"You might need to go on that Tuesday night movie"},{"startTime":1830.541,"endTime":1833.5,"body":"that you never do during the regular week,"},{"startTime":1833.5,"endTime":1837.791,"body":"but it just helps you get out of a normal routine."},{"startTime":1838.708,"endTime":1841.666,"body":"All of these are self-care approaches"},{"startTime":1841.666,"endTime":1843.541,"body":"and not to mention eating."},{"startTime":1844.083,"endTime":1847.916,"body":"You might need to watch how much you're eating"},{"startTime":1847.916,"endTime":1849.166,"body":"and how many snacks"},{"startTime":1849.166,"endTime":1851.666,"body":"because that actually is not helpful for you,"},{"startTime":1851.666,"endTime":1853.041,"body":"it's just a nervous habit."},{"startTime":1853.916,"endTime":1856.25,"body":"All of these things are self-care"},{"startTime":1856.25,"endTime":1858.541,"body":"and of course we also wanna emphasize"},{"startTime":1858.541,"endTime":1861.833,"body":"professional help is also there,"},{"startTime":1861.833,"endTime":1864.5,"body":"either with some employee assistance program"},{"startTime":1864.5,"endTime":1867.791,"body":"or you on your own reaching out to other resources."},{"startTime":1868.041,"endTime":1872.083,"body":"But please, if survival guilt is something"},{"startTime":1872.083,"endTime":1877.25,"body":"that really goes much longer than you're comfortable with,"},{"startTime":1877.25,"endTime":1880.75,"body":"or you feel pulled down in such so many ways"},{"startTime":1880.75,"endTime":1885.0,"body":"that you really are struggling to get out of it"},{"startTime":1885.0,"endTime":1888.166,"body":"and to manage day-to-day activities,"},{"startTime":1888.166,"endTime":1890.541,"body":"please reach out for some professional help."},{"startTime":1891.708,"endTime":1894.833,"body":"The point though, is to take care of yourself"},{"startTime":1894.833,"endTime":1898.083,"body":"as you go through this and not just expect,"},{"startTime":1898.083,"endTime":1900.416,"body":"you should be able, there's that word should,"},{"startTime":1900.416,"endTime":1902.208,"body":"you should be able to just bounce right back"},{"startTime":1902.208,"endTime":1906.375,"body":"after 15 of your closest friends have just been riffed."},{"startTime":1906.5,"endTime":1910.541,"body":"This will take an impact on you and allow that"},{"startTime":1910.541,"endTime":1912.375,"body":"and take care of yourself in the process."},{"startTime":1912.666,"endTime":1918.333,"body":"- Yeah, and what you're really highlighting is that recognition that our capacity,"},{"startTime":1918.333,"endTime":1922.666,"body":"neurologically, is going to be diminished during this time."},{"startTime":1922.666,"endTime":1926.625,"body":"When you're coping through significant change, through trauma, through other things,"},{"startTime":1926.625,"endTime":1931.25,"body":"it takes up a portion of our brain power, of our function."},{"startTime":1931.25,"endTime":1935.333,"body":"So when we're used to kind of this status quo, this routine,"},{"startTime":1935.333,"endTime":1940.833,"body":"there's a lot of activities that get done at a subconscious, automatic level."},{"startTime":1941.583,"endTime":1946.875,"body":"When that gets thrown up on its ear, we're not having to pay attention more"},{"startTime":1946.875,"endTime":1949.875,"body":"to even the littlest things, and that's more draining."},{"startTime":1950.5,"endTime":1952.708,"body":"So the cognitive endurance is less."},{"startTime":1953.083,"endTime":1955.666,"body":"Our mental capacity might not be quite as sharp."},{"startTime":1956.083,"endTime":1957.75,"body":"You know, our ability to get things done"},{"startTime":1957.75,"endTime":1959.75,"body":"might not be as quick as it used to."},{"startTime":1960.208,"endTime":1962.958,"body":"So it's cutting ourselves a little slack,"},{"startTime":1962.958,"endTime":1965.666,"body":"giving ourselves a little grace as we do that."},{"startTime":1966.125,"endTime":1967.625,"body":"And as you highlighted,"},{"startTime":1967.625,"endTime":1972.125,"body":"several very effective key coping skills and mechanisms,"},{"startTime":1972.125,"endTime":1975.083,"body":"many of which are very adaptive to help with that."},{"startTime":1975.708,"endTime":1979.291,"body":"then we also need to pay attention to those maladaptive coping skills"},{"startTime":1979.291,"endTime":1980.708,"body":"that very much can come in."},{"startTime":1980.958,"endTime":1985.5,"body":"You know, dependence on substance and other things like that,"},{"startTime":1985.5,"endTime":1989.416,"body":"which sure can help fix the short term,"},{"startTime":1989.416,"endTime":1991.541,"body":"but long term, it makes things more challenging."},{"startTime":1991.916,"endTime":1994.375,"body":"So as you're going through those,"},{"startTime":1994.375,"endTime":1999.5,"body":"what are those adaptive coping mechanisms that work for you,"},{"startTime":1999.5,"endTime":2001.458,"body":"prioritizing those,"},{"startTime":2001.458,"endTime":2006.708,"body":"and as those do not help or if you're just feel like, \"Hey, yeah, I need someone else,\""},{"startTime":2006.708,"endTime":2009.666,"body":"not being afraid to reach out for that professional assistance."},{"startTime":2010.416,"endTime":2017.041,"body":"And the last topic we can kind of wrap up with, and this is such a foundational piece is"},{"startTime":2017.041,"endTime":2022.333,"body":"anytime this traumatic moment, and I'll say the word traumatic, happens"},{"startTime":2022.333,"endTime":2024.916,"body":"and we're triggered or we're working through emotions,"},{"startTime":2024.916,"endTime":2028.083,"body":"we see great people we care about having left"},{"startTime":2028.083,"endTime":2030.875,"body":"the organization, we are left there."},{"startTime":2031.583,"endTime":2035.5,"body":"It's an opportunity to reflect on what we consider"},{"startTime":2035.5,"endTime":2037.125,"body":"most important to us."},{"startTime":2037.875,"endTime":2039.916,"body":"This value check idea."},{"startTime":2040.625,"endTime":2041.333,"body":"What is our purpose?"},{"startTime":2042.208,"endTime":2043.333,"body":"What do we want it to be?"},{"startTime":2043.833,"endTime":2045.333,"body":"What do we consider to be important?"},{"startTime":2046.333,"endTime":2049.5,"body":"Am I living my life in such a way"},{"startTime":2049.5,"endTime":2051.625,"body":"that I can look at myself in the mirror and say,"},{"startTime":2051.625,"endTime":2056.041,"body":"yep, my actions, my calendar, my behaviors"},{"startTime":2056.041,"endTime":2058.708,"body":"match what I consider to be important."},{"startTime":2059.5,"endTime":2063.458,"body":"It's an ideal time to then take a step back"},{"startTime":2063.458,"endTime":2065.083,"body":"and make sure things are aligned."},{"startTime":2065.583,"endTime":2071.083,"body":"Because if one of your values is to care about others,"},{"startTime":2071.083,"endTime":2074.625,"body":"this is an ideal time to showcase that value."},{"startTime":2075.5,"endTime":2080.541,"body":"If one of your values is to put your family first"},{"startTime":2080.541,"endTime":2084.125,"body":"or to really consider that and spend time with your family,"},{"startTime":2084.125,"endTime":2087.125,"body":"this is an ideal time to sit back and say,"},{"startTime":2087.125,"endTime":2088.166,"body":"how am I doing this?"},{"startTime":2088.916,"endTime":2091.25,"body":"What would I like to tweak or change about this?"},{"startTime":2092.041,"endTime":2096.5,"body":"If your value is, I want to show competence"},{"startTime":2096.5,"endTime":2100.125,"body":"and make a difference with what I contribute each day,"},{"startTime":2100.125,"endTime":2100.791,"body":"fantastic."},{"startTime":2101.083,"endTime":2103.0,"body":"Sit back and be really clear with yourself."},{"startTime":2103.583,"endTime":2105.0,"body":"How can you make a difference?"},{"startTime":2105.75,"endTime":2107.5,"body":"How long can you make this difference?"},{"startTime":2107.958,"endTime":2111.0,"body":"All of these are ideal times to then"},{"startTime":2111.0,"endTime":2114.0,"body":"to be able to then see what you value"},{"startTime":2114.0,"endTime":2118.041,"body":"and to match up your actions now and in the future."},{"startTime":2119.833,"endTime":2122.708,"body":"- So these, such good advice at the end."},{"startTime":2122.791,"endTime":2126.708,"body":"So as we recap, we've presented several suggestions"},{"startTime":2126.708,"endTime":2130.125,"body":"and tips as somebody is struggling and going through"},{"startTime":2130.125,"endTime":2132.916,"body":"and trying to navigate the survivor guilt."},{"startTime":2133.541,"endTime":2138.083,"body":"Communicating openly is key, acknowledging your feelings"},{"startTime":2138.083,"endTime":2140.166,"body":"and the experience that you're going through."},{"startTime":2140.791,"endTime":2142.083,"body":"Focusing on your role."},{"startTime":2142.291,"endTime":2145.458,"body":"What are those elements that you have some control over"},{"startTime":2145.458,"endTime":2147.625,"body":"and trying to put energy toward that."},{"startTime":2148.416,"endTime":2149.541,"body":"Supporting your colleagues."},{"startTime":2150.291,"endTime":2151.708,"body":"You know, as you look around,"},{"startTime":2151.708,"endTime":2153.458,"body":"what are ways in which you can support them?"},{"startTime":2153.708,"endTime":2155.5,"body":"And I would add to that,"},{"startTime":2155.5,"endTime":2157.25,"body":"as well as supporting those who may have left."},{"startTime":2157.375,"endTime":2159.0,"body":"It's okay to reach out,"},{"startTime":2159.0,"endTime":2160.791,"body":"to check in with your friends and colleagues"},{"startTime":2160.791,"endTime":2163.166,"body":"who might not be at the organization anymore."},{"startTime":2163.416,"endTime":2165.666,"body":"That's totally fine to do that."},{"startTime":2166.041,"endTime":2167.333,"body":"Engaging in self-care,"},{"startTime":2167.333,"endTime":2170.208,"body":"identifying those adaptive coping skills"},{"startTime":2170.208,"endTime":2173.375,"body":"that will help you manage your emotions,"},{"startTime":2173.375,"endTime":2177.0,"body":"allow you to get back to a state where you feel like,"},{"startTime":2177.0,"endTime":2180.041,"body":"okay, I'm finding a next normal here."},{"startTime":2180.666,"endTime":2183.083,"body":"Seeking professional help when needed,"},{"startTime":2183.083,"endTime":2186.375,"body":"but making sure you're reflecting on those core values,"},{"startTime":2186.375,"endTime":2188.375,"body":"your purpose, and what drives you."},{"startTime":2189.083,"endTime":2191.833,"body":"So all of those tips are things to try"},{"startTime":2191.833,"endTime":2192.666,"body":"as you're looking at."},{"startTime":2193.458,"endTime":2195.208,"body":"So as we wrap up, Daniel,"},{"startTime":2195.208,"endTime":2196.916,"body":"Lightning Round question for you."},{"startTime":2197.041,"endTime":2201.708,"body":"(Upbeat music)"},{"startTime":2201.708,"endTime":2205.791,"body":"What is the one thing that you would suggest somebody"},{"startTime":2205.791,"endTime":2207.875,"body":"as they are going through survivor guilt?"},{"startTime":2208.208,"endTime":2209.166,"body":"What should they do?"},{"startTime":2210.5,"endTime":2213.375,"body":"If you are experiencing survivor guilt,"},{"startTime":2213.375,"endTime":2217.5,"body":"stop and recognize that you are experiencing survivor guilt."},{"startTime":2218.333,"endTime":2223.75,"body":"You are not alone and try to not pretend like everything is normal."},{"startTime":2224.25,"endTime":2225.166,"body":"It's not."},{"startTime":2225.5,"endTime":2230.666,"body":"It is different and it's okay to have some challenging emotions,"},{"startTime":2230.666,"endTime":2233.291,"body":"some uncertainty as to what to do next."},{"startTime":2233.958,"endTime":2239.333,"body":"Recognize that is happening for you and step back"},{"startTime":2239.333,"endTime":2245.708,"body":"and start caring for yourself in ways so that you can show up as your best self"},{"startTime":2245.708,"endTime":2251.291,"body":"in the coming days and weeks and months for yourself, for your family,"},{"startTime":2251.291,"endTime":2253.541,"body":"for your existing colleagues"},{"startTime":2253.541,"endTime":2255.416,"body":"and for your broader set of friends."},{"startTime":2255.958,"endTime":2260.75,"body":"But first and foremost, acknowledge and help you show up"},{"startTime":2260.75,"endTime":2263.375,"body":"and take care of yourself first and foremost."},{"startTime":2264.25,"endTime":2264.625,"body":"-Yeah."},{"startTime":2265.583,"endTime":2266.625,"body":"- Great counsel."},{"startTime":2268.375,"endTime":2270.708,"body":"- Well, Peter, another great conversation here"},{"startTime":2270.708,"endTime":2275.416,"body":"as we've talked about survivor guilt in this interesting age"},{"startTime":2275.416,"endTime":2279.333,"body":"with so many layoffs happening, challenges at workplace,"},{"startTime":2279.333,"endTime":2281.5,"body":"in the workplaces that we all work."},{"startTime":2282.25,"endTime":2283.708,"body":"We wish everybody the best here."},{"startTime":2283.875,"endTime":2286.666,"body":"Please reach out any time that we can support you"},{"startTime":2286.666,"endTime":2287.541,"body":"here at Stewart Leadership."},{"startTime":2288.083,"endTime":2291.208,"body":"We care about you and hope that you are able to be"},{"startTime":2291.208,"endTime":2294.791,"body":"as successful as a leader as you would like to be."},{"startTime":2295.583,"endTime":2298.291,"body":"Please join us again, like and subscribe,"},{"startTime":2298.291,"endTime":2301.0,"body":"and as always, please share your ideas"},{"startTime":2301.0,"endTime":2305.875,"body":"for future podcasts with us, future topics,"},{"startTime":2305.875,"endTime":2309.333,"body":"and you can just email us at podcast@stewartleadership.com."},{"startTime":2310.416,"endTime":2312.083,"body":"All the best on your leadership journey."},{"startTime":2312.458,"endTime":2313.0,"body":"Take care, everyone."},{"startTime":2313.333,"endTime":2313.833,"body":"(Upbeat music)"},{"startTime":2313.833,"endTime":2318.291,"body":"If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend or colleague, or better yet,"},{"startTime":2318.291,"endTime":2320.833,"body":"leave a review to help other listeners find our show."},{"startTime":2321.625,"endTime":2324.208,"body":"And remember to subscribe so you never miss an episode."},{"startTime":2325.208,"endTime":2328.375,"body":"For more great content, or to learn more about how Stewart Leadership"},{"startTime":2328.375,"endTime":2331.25,"body":"can help you grow your ability to lead effectively,"},{"startTime":2331.25,"endTime":2333.458,"body":"please visit stewartleadership.com."}]}