Bonjhola

EP 81: Harsh Lessons from Marrakech

• Rebecca West

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Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each move from the United States to Europe to become expats. Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure. Encourage you to follow your own, move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

Rebecca

Amy,

Aimee

Banla, Rebecca.

Rebecca

so you and your son finally got to go on this much anticipated trip to Morocco,

Aimee

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca

anybody who reads, your substack knows it didn't start out great.

Aimee

It did not go as planned. No. So every year my kiddo and I take a, mother, son birthday trip because our birthdays are about a month apart. And, it, it's not, you know, I say every year as though it's been going on forever. It hasn't. This is our second annual mothers son trip. We went to London last year, and this year we decided to go to Morocco. And you know, we have, there are some parameters around this trip. The primary one being we cannot travel somewhere. New that Shane wants to go to

Rebecca

Shane, your partner, your adult

Aimee

Yes, yes, my yes, exactly. So, and I think it's probably at this point kind of a family rule. Like if two outta three of us are taking a trip somewhere and the other person really, really wants to go, that will hold off and wait for them to be able to join us rather than, you know, say F you and go without them.

Rebecca

'cause there's so many places in the world to travel to.

Aimee

Exactly. Exactly. And being in Europe, so many of them are just right here and so, so accessible. And Morocco's a two and a half hour flight from Barcelona and it was a place like I am so in love with Muslim architecture, with Turkish food, with like the whole. I feel like the Muslim world has created so many incredibly gorgeous, beautiful things, and as an American, they're so foreign to me and have felt really inaccessible. So I've never been to Africa. I've never been to Turkey. I've never been to a Muslim country, but it's something that I've, I've wanted to do for a very long time. And when I found out my son was also interested in Morocco, I was like, okay, let's, let's do that.'cause we were considering Ireland, but I was like, oh, no, no, no. The we, let's go to Morocco. Let's definitely do Morocco. so we, decided to do three days in Marrakesh and I chose Marrakesh over Casablanca with the help of Che GPT, um, who told me that Marrakesh is kind of the place to go over Casablanca. If you're wanting things like the rugs and the shopping experience, go to Marques. If you're wanting beaches and like vacation kind of style, something a little bit more laid back, Casablanca is the better choice. I don't like beaches, I don't like laying around. I want to be in the culture. I wanna experience the life of the locals. I was like, okay, we're totally going to Marrakesh. And I knew that haggling in the markets is a common thing and I knew certainly as a tourist, that was a place where I was really likely to get screwed over, and that was something I was a little bit nervous about. I'm not accustomed to haggling, even though it's also very common in Mexico. It wasn't part of how I was raised. So it's something I feel. Very nervous about. Um, it's also not something, I think that is an innate part of my personality to want to go back and forth and it's not really an argument, but it can give kind of argument vibes. Right?

Rebecca

raises the same anxiety in me as having to have a hard conversation or an argument. Yeah, I get what you're saying.

Aimee

Totally. So I did, you know, a little bit of looking up on, on that and also discovered that there are tours that you can take where you have a guide to take you into the souks and the souks are, are the Mars markets and help ensure that you don't get completely swindled, due to your incredible ignorance. Right.

Rebecca

Now outta curiosity, how do we know that the guide is also on your side?

Aimee

Well, I mean, I think if you get a certified guide, right, like if in the bio it says they're a certified guide, that will likely increase the odds that you are not going to, be robbed. But there ultimately there has to be, and this is one of the things that I learned on this trip, is ultimately at the end of the day, you have to have an element of trust. Otherwise nothing can happen. Nothing can proceed, nothing can progress if there is not a baseline level of trust in whomever you are interacting with.

Rebecca

Now, I am really surprised to hear you saying this, given what I know about how this trip went.

Aimee

yeah,

Rebecca

So continue.

Aimee

Okay, so again, Morocco, super foreign culture. It's a language, you know, with a completely different alphabet. I don't know any words in Arabic and am actually by and large, super, super ignorant about the country. And so I was like, okay, to, you know, ensure safety, I chose a, a Riyadh, which is a, effectively A, B, and B. So what they riyadh's are older, older Moroccan homes of wealthy people that have been purchased. And in Marrakesh, most of the Riyadh are owned by foreigners, European foreigners who have purchased them and turned them into mini hotels. So. Riyadh probably had maybe eight to 10 rooms. And breakfast is given to you every morning. It's a homemade breakfast, which is super cool.

Rebecca

Are you sitting around a table with other people? Is it brought to your room? What kind of b and b

Aimee

No, it's, it's out on the terrace, so it's on the, on the roof and there's like little tables set up for, each individual family to eat at. So I, I didn't book an Airbnb. I booked a, you know, hotel experience and I decided to get a private driver to the Riyadh because buses not Sure. Certainly I know enough about the world to know you never land in an airport. Leave the airport and look for the first taxi that you find in a foreign country. It's very, very. In some places extremely dangerous to do that, and certainly an easy way to get swindled. So hired a private driver through booking.com, which is who I used for finding the Riyadh as well. and then also booked the Riyadh to be in the center of town in the Medina, in the old town, close to the Sukuk. So that way we didn't have to do a lot of logistical, navigating, or figure out transportation to get to the hotspots, right. Where most of what we would want to see would be with our extremely limited knowledge base. Right. And then, um, I also booked a couple of tours. I booked a city tour. And I did the city tours, the through Airbnb. I did my tours through Airbnb, my lodging and transportation through booking.com. In Airbnb, when you're looking at the tours, they'll often say in the tour description, where to meet. So I Google mapped the meeting location and the distance from that to where we were staying. So again, we didn't have to walk for 30 to 45 minutes to meet these people or anything like that. I wanted to keep it pretty centrally located and as low hassle as possible. Because one of the things that I've learned about being in a foreign country is that if you are unfamiliar with everything, everything is extremely overwhelming.

Rebecca

Yeah, and, and you have your son with you too, so you're trying to make this a great experience for him'cause this is coloring how he's gonna see travel as an adult.

Aimee

No, that's true. I actually hadn't thought about that.'cause he's, I mean, he's been traveling since he was three months old, so he's a really good traveler.

Rebecca

But to go to a, for a really foreign place like this for the first time, for both of you, it is setting a new chapter in both of your travel experiences.

Aimee

guess it is. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know how common English would be. I wasn't really sure what that situation was going to be either. So the flight was fine. You going through customs was fine. And when you exit customs and, um, get your bags, you have to go through security again to leave. So your bags get scammed on the way out as well, which, yes. Yeah, I feel like, Hmm. That's a, that's a. A red flag in a way.

Rebecca

You are like, yeah, what, what is this coming from? What does this mean?

Aimee

I mean, it means people are obviously probably trying to smuggle contraband into Africa, right? So there's extra security on the way out. And we left the airport like in many, many places. There were, several drivers holding up signs for individuals. There was a whole load of taxis out in front. And then they had various, transport, um, businesses with their signs up. And I had received a WhatsApp message saying where we could find our driver and what to look for. So we found the driver. And it wasn't actually a driver. We were, we found a woman with a clipboard who had a list of all the people that had ordered drivers. And then basically like when a driver is ready, you go on the van with them and they take you to their place. Our driver did not speak any English. He was communicating to us while driving, using Google Translate.

Rebecca

Hmm.

Aimee

And you know, it was like, is this your first time in Marakesh? Where are you from? You know, things like that. And as we were leaving the airport, and he was not on his phone at the time when this happened, it felt like he had, jumped the curb a little bit with the van and then he stopped the vehicle and got out. And what happened is. I think based on what I could see, a motorcycle hit the van. So there was a mini car accident as we were leaving and then the cops were there and it was an extra, 20 minutes of him and the driver of the motorcycle and the cops all talking. And our driver was showing the motorcycle guy like pointing at the van, which where maybe some damage was done. I'm not really sure.'cause my kid and I are just sitting here waiting patiently and the driver comes back, he's like, you okay all okay? And I'm like, I'm, we're good. We're good. It's fine here. Um, that got taken care of and then we, traveled on into the city. It's about a 30 minute drive from the airport into the Medina, the old town. And as we got off of the main streets into the old neighborhood. As is very common, the streets narrowed, and then we're getting into like cobblestones and old, old city feel, right, and it starts to get very, very crowded. These are roads that are not intended for vehicles. They are used predominantly by pedestrians as well as motorcyclists, as well as people, uh, on donkeys with carts. So imagine if you will, a small alleyway, cobblestone, motorcycles, whizzing by lots of people on foot, the occasional donkey pulling a cart of something, and our vehicle. So it wasn't long before there was a, we ran into a vehicle in front of us that couldn't go anywhere because there was a vehicle in front of them, and we were just kind of stuck there and our driver stopped the vehicle. He opened up the side door and said. Riyadh that way, and he pointed and we're like, what? Excuse me. And basically like, I can't go further. I'm dropping you off here. Your Riyadh is in that direction. I did buy a Moroccan EIM for the trip, so I would have data, but I could not use Google Maps to save my life the entire trip. It was a complete waste of money from my perspective. I don't know if that was my phone or if that's Easton's, but it did not work for me, so I couldn't pull up where to go. The, when I say the streets were crowded, they were really, really crowded. So from a,

Rebecca

you guys have with you?

Aimee

just two carry-ons each.

Rebecca

So it was really easy to manage the, the luggage

Aimee

Yes, the luggage part was not a problem. it was the crowds, it was the fact that I didn't know what direction I was going. I didn't even know where I was in terms of a frame of reference where I had gone from the airport. I, there was no way for me to know if this gentleman's level of English competency was typical or abnormal. So I didn't know if I'd be able to communicate. I didn't realize at the time that Spanish is commonly spoken in Morocco, which makes tons of sense given its proximity to Spain that that would be the case. And so I didn't know that I could use Spanish. And then he's like, this guy take you, you want him take you? And I was like, okay. Yeah, because like, I don't know what to do here. I'm totally screwed. You're just dumping me off in the middle of nowhere. This guy, if he can take me, sure.

Rebecca

Do you have any sense of if he just like picked a stranger out of the crowd, like

Aimee

That's what it that was. That's what it looked like. That's what it looked like. Like he opened up the car door. We got out, a couple people approached him. He gave some old man some coins, and I was like, that's weird. What's that about? And then this younger guy comes up and I was like, this guy take you, you want? And I'm like, okay. And so he takes our bags outta the back of the van, puts them in a cart and starts walking down the alley. And we're like, fuck. Like, okay, here, let's hope this all turns out well. Right. My kids watched a lot of YouTube videos on travel foreign countries. He's got this idea in his head about Muslim hospitality, which is supposed to be amazing.

Rebecca

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Aimee

And I'm like, well, it's the middle of the day. It's super crowded. I know I don't have to worry about being kidnapped or you know, anything like physically I felt safe, but

Rebecca

It is actually daylight, so that's That is great.

Aimee

I, exactly, exactly. So let's just hope this is okay. Let's hope this is okay. And the guy who was taking our bags is like, oh, stay to the right. Stay to the right.'cause the motorcycles go fast. He spoke more English and um, your son put your son in front. So, and I was like, yeah, that's, that's good ideas. So he was kind of guiding us like safely through the crowded, busy streets. And then, you know, somewhere between five or 10 minutes later he's like, this is your Riyadh. And he stops. I'm like, okay. And he's like, uh, you pay me. I don't have money, dude. I just showed up. I don't have I don't have diam. And he said, I take Euro. I take Euro. And I'm like, what the hell? And I knew, you know, I had euro on me, but I didn't have small bills. I didn't have change. And I knew 20 Euro was like, I'm not gonna give this guy 20 euro for like a five, 10 minute walk. That's absurd. But I don't know where the ATM is. I certainly don't wanna take this guy to an ATM with my bags, without my bags. Like what? And the Riyadh is a closed, locked door. So you have to ring the doorbell and then the host of the Riyadh opens it and there's always

Rebecca

real quick question, like painting me a picture here. Is this a standalone house? Is this like a weird, big, modern building? Is it a super old building? What are we looking at at this

Aimee

it's, it's, um. Similar to our medieval town where there's separate buildings, but they're all connected together. And so it's just kind of like one long alleyway. It was similar to that.

Rebecca

Cool. Yeah.'cause you're in the, you're in true old town right now

Aimee

I am in true old town Marrakesh. Yes. And he had walked up to the Riyadh and it looked like he pushed the doorbell. But experiences with pushing the doorbell and the speed with which the host arrives, leads me to believe that he just pretended to push the doorbell and then demanded money from us. And I am like, you know, about halfway down, I was like, I just have, this is not, I really wanna be wrong. I really want, I'm hoping I'm paranoid. I don't want this to be what I feel is gonna happen, but it really, it felt like I was getting robbed in slow emotion. Right. Like, you know what's gonna happen and you feel totally powerless to stop it. And so, and he's getting more insistent and agitated about it. And I was like, fine, how much? And he says, 100. And I'm like, what the hell? 100. And mom and my son, it's like, mom, mom, no. Diam. Diam. He wants a hundred diam, which is only like 10 euro. And I'm like, okay, I don't have a 10, but whatever. And I knew 10 was exorbitant because our private van that was supposed to drive us 30 minutes from the airport to the Riyadh, presumably the front door, or escort us to the door of our Riyadh, that was 10 euro.

Rebecca

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So the numbers aren't adding up.

Aimee

No, exactly. And but again, I'm like, what do I do? How do I,

Rebecca

You don't have much choice in this situation. That feels good.

Aimee

exactly. In hindsight, I could have started yelling. I could have started screaming. I could have pounded on the door, you know, but he's got my bags in his possession.

Rebecca

And there is something to be said for he, him being the knight and shining armor in kind of a way. He is the one who walked you to this door. You wouldn't have necessarily gotten there without him. This is an awkward moment.

Aimee

I did not consent

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

to a financial transaction. I was not,

Rebecca

feels in general. I'm like, can't we just agree on something? And then we've agreed on it. And in these, um, cultures that do money very differently, they aren't operating on the same assumptions as we are. So who knows what all is going into this moment from the two sides.

Aimee

feel like most people walking into a market like a Suk understand that haggling is the norm before they get there. I did not expect that I would be handed off to a total stranger in the middle of the Medina Medina to be escorted to my, I paid for that service already

Rebecca

Oh yeah,

Aimee

from the driver. Uh, so I did not consent. I was essentially put in a compromising position

Rebecca

absolutely.

Aimee

and then asked for more money.

Rebecca

So how much did he get?

Aimee

He got 10 euro and I didn't give him my 20 until he pulled out 10 and change and gave it to me.'cause I was like, fuck you already, you're not getting double. I mean, I didn't say that to him, but I was like, but I pulled out a 20 and I was like. You have change? And he says, yes. And I said, and you know, motion, like give me the fricking change. And then we did an exchange. And then I swear to God, he vaporized our bags were then out and he vaporized. And it was probably just me having, you know, in shock. Um, my kid was low key freaking out too. He was not excited about any of that situation. And then he ran, he immediately bolted to the front door and pushed the doorbell and rapidly the door opened and the host of the Riyadh let us in.

Rebecca

Huh.

Aimee

And he was super friendly and he was like, how was your trip? How was everything? And I was just like, it was fine. It was fine. He's like, sit down, sit down, relax for a little bit. Just rest for now. We can do your check-in in a moment. I'll get you some tea. You know, some mint tea and snacks. You've had a long trip and I'm thinking. Why, what is your agenda? What is this? This is, why are you doing, like, you know, I'm totally at this point expecting everybody's out to, you

Rebecca

because your radar now is on high alert.

Aimee

a

Rebecca

I could have, I could have said, here, Amy, here's a million dollars. You'd be like, why? Why are you handing me a million dollars? I do not trust you.

Aimee

Don't give me that blood money. I'm not taking the fall for your crime.

Rebecca

So obviously you got checked in. In retrospect, do you feel like the Riyadh owner knew what happened? Do you have any sense of that? No.

Aimee

not. He had no idea. I ended up telling him on the last day because I was organizing transportation back to the airport, and, he offered to get us a taxi and, you know, told me how much it would be, and then

Rebecca

How much was it?

Aimee

200, uh, 2020, do 20 euro for the taxi back. And I'm like, well, if the Riyadh is doing it, it'll probably be okay. And what ha what ended up happening is he physically walked us out to the taxi, but the thing that freaked me out is that he wanted me to give him the money to give to the taxi driver later. And I was like, why no, don't I give it to the taxi driver? And he's like, no, we collect it here and we give it to the taxi driver later. I'm like, he's not gonna ask me for money again. Are you sure? Are you sure? And I was like, this is what happened. Here is what happened when we came here, which is why I am asking you all these questions. Right. And then I told, you know, I told him, but like, I didn't wanna talk about it for most of the trip. I mentioned it to one of our tour guides on the, the last full day we were there, but I didn't, and I'm not really sure why, but I just didn't want to. Rehash the whole thing.

Rebecca

I think we can all understand that. But what did the hotel guy say? What did the Riyad guy say when you

Aimee

He was like, you know, he was basically like, yes, this is very common here. And, no, it's, it's not going to be like that. This is, that this is, that's not what's going to happen. I'm, I collect the money, I give it to the driver later because it's not good for me to walk, to walk with the cash. And I was like, okay. Alright.

Rebecca

Did he, did he respond as if what had happened to you was normal and expected and Okay. Or normal and expected and not Okay.

Aimee

Normal and expected and just an unfortunate part of what it means to be coming from the airport as a tourist in

Rebecca

reflecting back

Aimee

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca

if, if somebody were going for the first time, do you have any advice on how to avoid that situation? Because

Aimee

Yeah, see, I had hoped that I would be avoiding it by booking through booking.com. Right. And that turns out that was not the case. So in reflecting upon what would I have done differently, knowing what I know now, the only thing that I can think of is that when you book wherever you are staying, make sure the vehicle can drive directly to the front door.

Rebecca

Right, because with your home in Gerona, people cannot drive to your front door. It's not happening.

Aimee

exactly, yes.

Rebecca

Is there any way, like how would you have figured that out? What would you have been your approach?

Aimee

I think the only thing that I could think to do was to do would be to do driving directions from the hotel to the front door

Rebecca

a good idea.

Aimee

And then it'll say, you know, like if you have to walk. It'll, it'll, you know, it'll tell you

Rebecca

Yeah. It's usually pretty accurate

Aimee

pass. Yeah. Um, that's the only thing that I can think of to prevent what happened from happening. But both, you know, both my son and I had a really hard time not transferring that experience onto every single person

Rebecca

Of course,

Aimee

met afterwards. It was an absolutely horrible way to be introduced to a new culture, to a new country. and I feel really bad for Morocco that that is so prevalent. And I say because that is so prevalent. One, because, you know, for when I told people what had happened, there was absolutely no shock or surprise at all.

Rebecca

right.

Aimee

Two, I had posted a, like, you know, kind of things that I learned about Marrakesh on Facebook. And then, someone was asking questions and they say, well, yeah, it was actually, I mean, it was the worst trip that I'd had since 1997, which is a really freaking long time. And you know, here is why. And he said, he responded saying, oh, when I went to Marrakesh, that exact same thing happened to me.

Rebecca

Wow.

Aimee

And he said, I was told that it was dangerous for me to walk by myself in the Medina and this guy needed to escort me. And then there were like three big burly guys that followed him to escort me to where I was staying. And then they demanded money. And this is a tall American male.

Rebecca

Wow. Yeah. It doesn't make you inclined to go. I'm, I'm curious'cause you and I have talked about going to Morocco and we were thinking about using G Adventures, who put together our Camino trip, and I'm super curious. If like how much that changes the experience, I assume it dramatically changes the

Aimee

100%. I absolutely believe it would. when we were walking from our Riyadh into the square, into the Suks, there is perpetual, constant harassment from people on the street.

Rebecca

What kind of harassment?

Aimee

Um, they're trying to get your attention to buy stuff from their shops. They're trying to help you out. Both city tours that I took, both guides, well, I did a city tour, we did a city tour, and then we did a souk shopping tour. And in the city tour? Both. Both, actually. Both tour guides said when people approach you wanting to offer help, don't take it. And if you need help, if you are lost, do not ever ask anybody on the street, go into a shop and ask the store person in the shop for directions for ATM location for whatever it is that you need. Never ask somebody on the street. And when we were, I mean, both, both my son and I are travel savvy enough that when someone approaches you for whatever reason, if they look like they need help and or whatever, they wanna, whatever, you just like, you ignore'em or you tell'em no. Right? Like we, we know that.

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

But it was con, it was constant enough that just, you know, knowing you had to mentally prepare yourself knowing we're leaving our Riyadh, we're gonna go here. And it was less aggressive at night, in the evenings and, before 10:00 AM than it

Rebecca

Wouldn't have yet maybe.

Aimee

probably. Yeah, that's what we could figure. Um, it was pretty busy at night actually. There were a lot of people out at night, but it seemed like more locals were coming in at night, perhaps, or I'm not entirely sure, but definitely midday, super, super crowded and very kind of everybody's at their peak level of assertiveness in wanting to get something from you. When we had a tour guide with us, there was none of that.

Rebecca

Hmm. It's almost like the mafia we protect our own get under my.

Aimee

Yeah, yeah, exactly. There was a lot less, a lot less of that when, when, when we were with, with, uh,

Rebecca

Wow. So how you were in Mar, did you go into any other cities or were you just.

Aimee

my son wanted to do a camel ride, and so we actually did that our first night there. So we had landed early afternoon, when we got into our Riyadh, set our, our bags down, rested for a little bit, and then went out, got something to eat, and met up for the Camel tour. And that was, you know, a, a van that drove us and,, two other couples out into the desert. From the desert, you get fitted for a helmet, goggles and get put on a four-wheeler or a quad depending on what area of the world you are from. And they take you on a quad ride through the desert, in a very, you know, roundabout way so that you get a lot of time on the quad.

Rebecca

Now, what kind of desert are we talking about? Is this a rocky desert? Is this a like That's a sand dunes desert.

Aimee

Oh, that's a good question. Yeah.'cause I didn't even think about the different kinds of deserts. It was a little, it was more rocky than Sandy for sure. It was more of a rocky desert.

Rebecca

like bushes, like Joshua Tree, national Park, any plant life?

Aimee

Very, very, very little plant life on the four-wheeler. It looks like there's none. Um, and we, I didn't realize there weren't any plants until the camels stopped and wanted to grab a nibble.

Rebecca

And we haven't

Aimee

I was like, oh

Rebecca

yet. Okay. So you're riding around,

Aimee

we're riding around on the quad and, um, you know, they, there's bumps, there's turns, um, there's also a sad amount of trash littering the desert. And after about probably about 15 minutes or so, we pull up to a very rustic tent, kind of like, you know, a big tarp with some blankets inside. And we get off the quad. Our leader, our tour guide, does not speak much English. And he goes into the tent and we're just standing there like, what the heck is going on? And a little bit nervous because our, our day has not gone well thus far.

Rebecca

now you've been driven somewhere into the desert.

Aimee

And now we've been driven somewhere into the desert. And and then this older guy comes out and he has these outfits for us to put on. So we put on these, I guess, traditional Moroccan robes. Right. And he wraps our head in like a turban and then leaves us to the camels.

Rebecca

Um, quick question, were the clothes different for the guys and the gals, or is it all the same robes?

Aimee

nope. Same outfits. Uh, blue with a bunch of embroidery down the front. And then he asked to take my phone. And of course I'm like, what the hell?

Rebecca

I'd be like, no, no. The answer's no. Sorry. No, no.

Aimee

And I'm like, okay. And I give

Rebecca

why? Why?

Aimee

to take pictures of us on the camels. Yes. And he takes pictures of us on the camels, and then he ties one camel to the other and leads us out into the desert. We, you know, walk around on the camels for a bit. We take pictures, he takes video of us on the camel. Um, we're out for like 20, 25 minutes on the camels, in the deserts, and then come back. And, um, this tour actually was phenomenal for the price. And then we get on the quad, well, we disrobe from our our mock, mock authentic garb. I don't think it was terribly authentic, but it was cute. And, um, and then we're standing around waiting like, what's going on? What now? And again, no one's speaking really good English. So I don't know. I'm like, are we going on the quads or what? Because when we came back from the camels, the gentleman, you know, untied the camels. The kid who had taken us out on the quads was in the tent with his presumably brother watching YouTube or TikTok on their phones. So hilarious because it's an incredibly, incredibly rustic, antiquated environment. And then you have these two kids watching TikTok or whatever, and it's like the world is the same no matter where you are. And then the guy goes into the tent and we're just standing there. And then the younger kid comes out and we're like, do we go or we stay? And he said something and we didn't really, whatever he said, it wasn't clear. And so we're just standing there for a moment. These two other people come up on the camels. So I think they were just waiting for more people to be done, right? So we could go as a group. So my son and I and two other women are on the quads going. And one of the teenagers is like on the way out, my kid and I rode on one quad on the way back. He's like, no, no, no. And he has my kid go on a quad by himself. He's 11 years old. And I'm like,

Rebecca

it by himself.

Aimee

yes. And I'm like, wait, what? And I'm like, no, no, this is good. This will be good.

Rebecca

Wow. Good

Aimee

And of course, his little 11-year-old mind is like, whoa, I get to drive a quad.

Rebecca

That's amazing.

Aimee

And I was like, I don't know. And I was like, well, you know, you're a, he's a super, he's pretty risk adverse and very conscientious. So I totally trusted him. Like, it might be a little bit hard to figure out the speed at first, but I, I think you can do this. I think it'll be okay. But then the teen tour guide actually was on. The four wheeler with him.

Rebecca

Perfect.

Aimee

Yeah. So he was, and I guess my, my son told me afterwards, he was like egging him to go. He's like, go faster, go faster, come on, go faster.

Rebecca

Mm.

Aimee

So they were in the front, I was directly behind. And then the two women were, were behind. And same thing, going back, twists turns, you know, little like mini obstacle course kind of thing. And then we end up at a, I don't know really how to describe it, almost like an outdoor cafe in the middle of the desert. There's all these quads lined up and we get off and our guide leads us to a bowl of water and turn on the faucet, rinse our hands off, and then we go and sit in a shaded, covered outdoor area with all these rugs, low tables. And they bring us out mint tea

Rebecca

Oh, it's

Aimee

a super. The super sweet mint tea, a little, um, bit of olives and some Moroccan bread with honey to dip in.

Rebecca

and did they pour the mint tea all like way above the glass?

Aimee

Always, always. No one, no one didn't not serve it that way while we were there and there was music playing and there's a bunch of other people who had been on different tours, all, you know, kind of hanging out and sipping tea and talking. And, you know, we stayed there for, for probably again, another 20, 30 minutes just kind of having a snack. And then, um, our guide took us back to where we, you know, took off our helmets and things turned in the quads, got in the van where our driver was waiting and then got dropped off back at the location where we were picked up. So it was, I think it was a three hour excursion overall. And really fabulous experience. We got more out of it than we were expecting. Had no idea that the whole little tea service was going to happen.

Rebecca

Did you know about the four wheelers?

Aimee

Yes. Yeah. It, it, it was advertised as Quad Plus Camel Tour.

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

Yeah.

Rebecca

Wow.

Aimee

And they had an optional one where you can stay, until the sunset and have some dinner show with fire dancers and stuff like that. But my son wasn't really interested in that, and I was like, yeah, that's fine. I don't, don't have a problem in, keeping it short.

Rebecca

and this one you booked through Airbnb. This was an Airbnb experience?

Aimee

correct. Yep. And then our first city tour was also through Airbnb and that was a walk around the city, the old part of the city, um, some history, some culture, and a lot of really helpful tips on just how to navigate being in Marrakesh, how to cross the roads safely, how to, um, yeah, our guide was so funny. He's like, really? You just have to act confident. You just step out and you tell them, you make the hand gesture for them to slow down, like, and you go out. If you hesitate, no one will stop for you. The other thing is if someone else is going, that is also your time to go.

Rebecca

Yeah, that's what I'd be really watching for.

Aimee

Yeah. Safety in numbers. A hundred percent. and yeah, he, he was, he gave us a really nice, well-rounded introduction to Moroccan music and culture and language and history. It was a really great tour. Um, and then after that I decided that I did not want to navigate the markets by myself. So that evening I decided I was going to hire a guide to take me through the suks on my last day there, so that way I could make sure that, you know, it was, and I was, I was exhausted too. I was like, I just don't have it in me to deal with haggling when. I feel like I'm being haggled at when I leave the Riyadh and I'm struggling so much with just trusting people that I, I just, I, I wanted someone to, to act as, you know, an experienced guide and kind of a protector in, in that way. One other, oh

Rebecca

anything?

Aimee

God, yes. Abso that was why I was there.

Rebecca

Well, what did you buy?

Aimee

So I, my limits because if I, I have to put limits on myself, otherwise, I have the capacity to, I have the capacity to be deeply, deeply irresponsible, but thankfully I also have a control freak in me that prevents me from ever going too far.

Rebecca

I mean, I think he just described the human condition

Aimee

I don't know. I've met a lot of people who have too much of the control freak and can have fun, um, and people who don't seem to have any kind of control gene in them at all.

Rebecca

truly,

Aimee

So in order to put some guardrails up, I, you know, it was carry-on baggage only.

Rebecca

right?

Aimee

I, we flew through Ryan Air and with Ryan Air, you get one personal item. If you want a bag in the cabin, you have to pay for that. So I chose a bag in the cabin for myself and for my kid. So that way I effectively had two carry on bags that I could fill with stuff.

Rebecca

Sure.

Aimee

Because one of the things I definitely wanted to bring back was rugs,

Rebecca

Okay.

Aimee

and I ended up bringing home three rugs. Um, a couple of plates. Like one of those mirrors that is highly decorated and housed. The doors that open.

Rebecca

yeah.

Aimee

Yeah. Um, And a litted vase, which I guess is called a ginger jar. Um, and then a little espresso cup for Shane. Oh. And the painting, gosh, I forgot the paintings. That was the best deal. I got a really large, uh, canvas that had been, you know, paintings, just the canvas and rolled it up. And, then my son wanted a smaller one that was kind of a Moroccan scene in Browns and creams. And mine is like all the bright colors. And then he has this really muted Moroccan scene on a smaller canvas. So.

Rebecca

And how big are the rugs? Because I mean, we're talking about carry-ons. These must be like scatter rugs.

Aimee

It is, yeah. They're scatter rugs. It is amazing how. Small, they can make those rugs

Rebecca

They can make a mouse pad sized

Aimee

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Two of the rugs I got are probably somewhere between two and three feet in width and about four feet long.

Rebecca

Nice.

Aimee

And then I got a larger one that is, I'm gonna guess it's, I think it's a little bit longer than six feet, maybe six by four.

Rebecca

Yeah, those are really nice sizes and they, so they must fold up really flat then.

Aimee

Y yes. The two, the two smaller ones folded up quite flat. And then the bigger rug, which is in the living room and kind of ties together the side chairs with the coffee table. That one was rolled up and so it was a little bit bigger, but it fit in the carry-on very easily. And so we had room to spare. I could have gotten more.

Rebecca

Well, so what kinds of prices are we even talking about? Like, let's just do the four by six ish rug. Like are we

Aimee

great question. Great question. So the four by six rug, the four by the two smaller rugs, I paid 360 euro for both.

Rebecca

Okay.

Aimee

And he said that, you know, when he quoted the price, this was the, this was an untoured rug visit. So I did go to one place by myself. I knew I wanted rugs and I had gotten a recommendation for this place, I think from a YouTube video. And then I Googled them and looked at their Google reviews. Excellent Reviews on Google. This is, this place, if you're interested, if anyone is interested. It's called Fad ma. Rugs. F-A-D-M-A. It's named after the proprietor's mother, who is actually, I think, calling the shots from behind the scenes, but he's, the primary salesperson. And the photos of the rugs that they had on Google looked great. So I was like, I definitely wanna go there. And they have cats. I was like, cats will keep the child occupied while I shop for rugs. So when you go into the souks, immediately, what you have access to is crazy town. Lots of people, lots of small shops. Um, it's noisy. It's really crowded, but deeper in there. Very, I don't even know how I was able to find it. Oh, I think I pulled it up on Google Maps before we left the hotel and then just kept my screen open and followed the directions, from there. But. I'm not, I couldn't find it again, certainly without Google Maps, right? But in the, you know, aside from the super busy, busy area of the souks, when you get deeper and deeper into the market, there are these quiet pockets with less aggressive, less in intense shopping experiences than you would have in the main area. And this was definitely one of those places, we found it. And, you know, we, we came in and, and the guy was like, how can I help you? What are you looking for? What do you have in mind? And, he had someone bring us mint tea while we sat down the room that we were in looking at rugs. Did not have the cats. Unfortunately, we found the cats when we went to pay for the rugs in a different room. And so he's bringing out all these rugs. All these rugs. All these rugs and having his assistants bring out lots and lots of rugs and rugs are starting to pile up. And, and he's just sort of like, you know, once we ascertained what kind of size I was looking for and I said I had carry-on luggage only I, if I could, I would go absolutely crazy, but I'm, you know, not able to take much back. I am not willing to ship. I don't wanna ship'cause they will offer shipping. I was like, I have no interest in shipping back to Spain.

Rebecca

And these are, these are smart parameters.'cause if you go in with these limits, it's not just a limit on yourself, it is making you, or it's putting you in a stronger negotiating position because you know what your limits are.

Aimee

exactly. Yeah. That is one thing I ha I, I totally recommend know what, especially if you're going into a situation where haggling is going to happen. Have a sense of what is your maximum budget in any one store, even before you see an item. And then when you find an item you like, think, you know, okay, what is that worth to me? Nevermind how much it costs to make it, how much they're gonna sell it for. What is my price where I would just walk away. I don't need it that much. I don't want it that much. One of the benefits I do have also is that I did not have a set intention in mind. It's not like, well, I'm designing my living room and I wanna have this whole Moroccan theme in my living room, because that would've been extraordinarily expensive. I was like, well, I don't really know what I'm looking for. I kind of want the most I can get. However, I have to think about taking it back. I ultimately have to think about taking it back to the States, and I'm not gonna have it shipped either to the US or to Spain, although I did find out that they will, they will truck things across into Spain and can avoid import taxes that way.

Rebecca

Huh. That feels not legal.

Aimee

Probably it, I, I imagine it's a gray area. It's a gray area, right. So my thought,

Rebecca

across the, the

Aimee

yeah. Yeah, my thought for any American, with the tariffs that are happening, if you ship something, like if you go to Marrakesh and you want to ship things back, it may be worthwhile to see what the tariffs would be if it came from Spain versus Morocco. I mean, it's certainly worth doing a Google search, right? To see what the tariffs would be and

Rebecca

Plus it's a moving target.'cause obviously tariffs are,

Aimee

everything is a moving target with this administration. But that's, that's something to, that's something to consider. So I ended up getting these two rugs. while we were looking at rugs, he was like, okay, in Arabic, when you are deciding what you want or you don't want, if there is something that you don't like,'cause we had a whole bunch of rugs and it's like, okay, now we're gonna go through the rugs. If you like it, you're curious about it. Anything at all say Wawa? And if you're like, you don't know, it's definitely not your style. Say La la shukran la la la Shukran and la la la is like, no, no, no, no, no, thank you. And Wawa is, I, I, I don't know, but that was the affirmative

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

And so then one by one, they lift up all the rugs and I'm like, LA, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. Wawa la. And then we narrow it down to about eight rugs. And he's like, of these rugs, which ones are you most interested in? And I was like, well, there's about five that I want. However, and this is another, this is another tip that I used as a limiting factor because Muslim culture is very patriarchal. I said I would, you know, I would love to take these five rugs home. However, my husband will be furious if I spend that much money. I can't spend that much money. So these two, right? And I picked two.

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

He's like, okay, this one is one 50, this one is one 70. And I was like, in my mind, my mind, I was thinking that those rugs would've been about$250 each, 250

Rebecca

you're already happy. You're like,

Aimee

So I'm already like, I'm like, yeah, okay. I didn't even haggle. I was like, okay. And out of the corner of my eye, I see my kids' eyes get really wide because he is super duper stingy.

Rebecca

Yeah. He's a very frugal kid.

Aimee

And mom just dropped like over 300 Euro on rugs?

Rebecca

I love it. And I'm sure that the vendor's going, yep. Got another one.'cause no haggling I'm sure is unheard of in the actual culture.

Aimee

Oh, in the actual culture? Yeah. Absolutely unheard of. However, you know, they also know, oh, Americans, you know, whatever. Now here's, here's another really important tip for anybody who's thinking about going to Marrakesh. The, and this was something that I learned from one of my guides. Again, another reason to get a city guide and ideally get a city guide. The first, or like the first day you're there immediately. As soon as you can get a city guide to show you how to survive in Marrakesh.

Rebecca

And you're not talking a book. You're talking a human who can talk you through it.

Aimee

Precisely. There is so much nuance that you will never be able to get through Google or chat GPT, that a human on the ground who is from that area will be able to gift to you to help you out. And this is one of the best things I learned about Marrakesh, a government cooperative has been created where it's basically like a small shopping mall that is an alternative to the souks.

Rebecca

Hmm.

Aimee

So the prices are fixed, the prices are labeled. They are the barometer for what a fair price would be for a product. So if you go to Marash, go to the ensemble Al first before you go into the souks, check out the prices, check out the wares. Certainly if you wanna buy anything, buy anything, you won't get scammed. If you want to then go into the souks haggle for lower prices, you can get deals in the souks, but you'll have a sense of what a fair price actually is.

Rebecca

Yeah. Good tip.

Aimee

that Yeah, that is, that was gold. That information was gold. Now I had already purchased two rugs, right? after I purchased the two rugs, I was like, okay, I want a souk tour for the pottery, for other things to whatever. And uh, Yusef was our guide for the Souk tour, and he was the first person that I told about what had happened. The first place he took us to was this really big, like, you go into this tiny door and then all of a sudden rooms upon rooms, and it was this old, super rich person's house that's been turned into a store. And there's like intricate decor, like in the walls, right? Are carved and painted kind of thing. Gorgeous. Gorgeous. And this guy is older. I can kind of tell he's a bit of a shyster right off the bat. He's talking the, the guy who owns the house. Our, our guide. Our guide is like. If you have any questions about appropriate pricing, talk to me. If there's anything that you see, you know, whatever, I can help you out. And this guy, you know, and then he introduces us to the shop, the salesperson. And the salesperson is like, I have so many rooms. We could, what are you interested in? And I was like, I'd like some pottery. I'm interested in home decor. And so he takes us to all these different rooms and he is telling us about Muslim culture and the Quran and the history of the building. And just talking, talking, talking, talking. And, oh, this is so nice. This is an antique. It's so beautiful. And really talking up everything. And I'm like, well, yeah, the pottery is nicely glazed. However, I can see that there are some imperfections here, right? And it was like, oh, well how much would this be? And it was like, no, we don't talk about like, when do we get everything together? Then we can discuss the price. Right? Like he wouldn't even give us a ballpark until my wonderfully fiscally conservative child was like, how much? How much? And then he said, this plate 220 to 250 D, right? Which is about 22 to 25 bucks for, you know, a eight inch plate. And my kid is like, and I'm like, yeah, there's no way we're paying that much for this. That's silly.'cause that's effectively what you one would pay in the states, you know?

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

Um, and so we decide, you know, we kind of get the things that we want to get, which ended up being two plates, a small bowl and the decorated mirror with the doors. And, uh, it's in a basket.'cause he's like, here's a basket for all the things we're gonna collect. And he opens up the basket and then he's like 900 diam. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no. Come on. Like this is clearly like a fricking swindle. That's bs. I was like, no, no, no, no. And he's like, oh, how much, how much? And I'm like, there's no, like, I, in my mind I'm like's, no way. This is worth more than 50 bucks to me. I was like, I totally walk away from, I have no problems doing that. And he is like, I'll take it to your guide. He will talk to my boss. They will figure it out. I was like, great, let's do that. And so the shopkeeper goes up to my guide, he gives him the basket. They were talking in Arabic. The our, my guide looks in the basket and then the, the salesperson takes it to his boss up at the front at the register, and my guide leans over and he says, don't pay more than 400 for any of that.

Rebecca

Wow, that's a huge difference from 900.

Aimee

Exactly, exactly. So we get to the front and then, you know, we talk a little bit and I say 300, and he is like, oh, no, no, no, no, no. And uh, and then he is, he says, uh, three 80. It's like three 50. And uh, he was like, I can, no, I can't do that. We ended up settling on three 50 and then I said, do you take card? And he was like, I'll take card for 400.

Rebecca

Sure. That's

Aimee

tr yeah. 20 D. And I'm like, yeah, that was my response. Yeah, that's fair. I understand that. 20 diam, which is effectively a$2 surcharge to use it. Right. Um, and then my guy is like, no, no, no. I'll let me pay with cash. You can pay me back. I'm like, what? And so he pulls out his wallet and he gives cash to the guy. He is like, you can pay me later. And I was like, but I don't, I don't have, uh, I don't have the, how am I gonna pay you back? And he is like, you have PayPal? I was like, oh yeah, I have PayPal. I was like, great, we'll do PayPal. I'm like, okay.

Rebecca

You know, it's interesting because I, I wonder if that means he ends up getting paid in Euros or dollars or whatever the system, you know, like, is he still, I don't, I'm curious about the currency behind that, but let's not go down that rabbit hole because we have been on this call for an hour,

Aimee

Oh gosh. Okay.

Rebecca

so obviously there's so much more we can talk about,

Aimee

I know

Rebecca

a bow on this

Aimee

I'll wrap, I'll wrap this up quick. So when we left that shop, I said His initial offer was 900. And I knew that was outrageous. And then I told him the reason why I wanted a guide is because of what happened our very first day. And, and I, and I told him, I was like, it was a really horrible way to be introduced to your country. And he said, that's exactly it. It's bad for you. It's bad for Morocco. And he was like, you know, and it's very, you know, very common. The next place that we ended up going to this guy Haggled the hell out of the ShopKeep, who was his friend, they said, no, this is my friend. This is my friend, so I'm gonna make sure that you get a really, really good deal.'cause this is my friend. And that was where I got the.

Rebecca

something just straight out of the Aladdin movie. This whole thing does.

Aimee

I got a huge painting. And the original quote was 4,000 for my huge canvas, right? Not framed, just the canvas painted. And then a smaller, eight by 10 inch painting that my son wanted. And the original price that he gave us was 4,000 Dito, which is about$400. And I was like, dude, there's no way. Like, I like it, but I don't need it. I'm not necessarily shopping for this. I have to figure out how to get it home. I've got the cost of framing. No way. And then he is like, 3000. And I was like, no. See, you don't understand. I, uh. I wasn't necessarily looking to buy this. You can sell it to some. And I told him, I was like, no, no, let him. And my guide was coming in and being like, nah. He was like in Arabic, like blah, blah, blah, blah. Trying to talk him down lower. And I told the store owner, I was like, listen, I'm sure I have no questions. You can sell this to somebody else for 3000 and it will be worth it to them. So I'm just gonna leave. And that was like, I was just being honest. I wasn't playing a game. I'm like, that's cool. There's no way I'm paying that much for it. I don't wanna pay 300 and then have to frame it and everything. So, no. And then my my guide said, let me take care of this. And then they're going at it back and forth, back and forth for several minutes. I have no idea what's being said. It's all in Arabic. And I'm thinking, in my mind, I'm like, is this a theatrical performance? And it doesn't matter what number they come up with, I'm still getting screwed. Is this genuine? Like I have no way of knowing am I watching theater and an unwilling participant, or is this guy genuinely going to bat for me? And then I realized, you know what, Amy, it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because you're gonna decide what it's worth to you whether or not in their eyes, it means that they ripped you off. And once I had that realization, I stopped feeling like I was a helpless victim in this situation. And I was like, okay, yeah, I'm just gonna have some fun with this and I'm gonna pay what I wanna pay, whether or not it's too much. And. Afterwards, I will go to the cooperative to see whether or not I got a fair deal because I wanna know, I, I do wanna know. So I ended up getting a, you know, a good deal. He talked him down from 4,000 to 1,800 data.

Rebecca

Okay. Wow.

Aimee

Exactly. Exactly. And then we went to another rug place. I was like, I bought two rugs. I don't really need more, but I love rugs. and that's when I got the really large one because he convinced me I could put it in my carry-on and I could, and that one, that one there was less of a, less of a talk down. Uh, I think it started at, I don't even, I don't even remember in this moment. So, um, but I, but I felt good. I felt good about those purchases. And then when I went to the cooperative and I checked prices everywhere I went. What I paid was not exorbitant. It was reasonable. I think it is possible. I'm not entirely sure, but I think it is possible. I paid perhaps 20% more than I may have needed to at the first place I purchased rugs. I maybe could have saved 50 or$60 based on what I was seeing. However, the place that we looked at, one of the things that my son noticed is he's like, I don't think the quality of the rugs is as high as the first place we went to. And I think he's right. I think the quality of the rug where we purchased it was better. So I feel good about that too. So even though I had, even though I lost 10 euro to a shya, the start of the trip, I was really, really lucky in that the purchases that we made were all done. In good faith and, and were, you know, ended up, ended up working to be equitable for, for both parties.

Rebecca

Well, and I just think it's also. Worth celebrating the fortitude that you showed, you navigated the first rug place on your own. You chose to take this trip in the first place, which a lot of people would just not be brave enough to do.

Aimee

I'm sure there's gonna be some listeners who are like, oh, I wanted to go to Mars, but now hell no.

Rebecca

Yeah, that's, that's the journey of being in a foreign land. And what this really reminds me is despite how much work you and I have put into integrating into Spain and France, how much harder it would be in yet a more foreign country. Like there are so much to unpack when it comes to culture and trying to put yourself into a world that you really don't understand

Aimee

a hundred percent.

Rebecca

congratulations.

Aimee

Thank you.

Rebecca

So what's the big takeaway? Yay or nay, Morocco.

Aimee

I would say Morocco, yes. But I would say Morocco buyer beware.

Rebecca

Like it's worth it, but know what you're getting yourself involved in.

Aimee

I think it's worth it, honestly. It's still so fresh. The experience is still so fresh, and it, I was so deeply rattled by that experience for, you know, reasons that go way, way back to like core woundings and childhood, a bunch of therapy, blah, blah, blah, that I'm not gonna get into. And so it, it's really, it's stuck. It's stuck on me like, like glue and it's been really difficult to shake it off. I think objectively taking my personal. Response, my emotional response out of it. I believe that I would say yes to Morocco, and in fact, I think that with some more time, I may even be willing to go back to Morocco again. However, Morocco is not like Europe. It is not like North America. I do not at all recommend you go to a country or nation like Morocco without doing due diligence on understanding cultural norms. What to expect, with regards to, you know, getting there and back. Well, for instance, Turkey is on my list, right? Turkey is on my list to go to after going to Morocco. I am now 100% certain that if I get to Turkey, which I will at some point, I will do a full guided tour. The first time where they meet me at the airport, they hold my hand the whole freaking time to make sure I don't get food poisoning, I don't get robbed, and then they put me on the plane to take me home. I strongly recommend if you can afford it, that that kind of experience be your first experience in Morocco. If you are from the northern, western, democratic world.

Rebecca

good advice. I guess with that, we can say to our listeners. Do you, do you know how to say that in, um, is it Arabic?

Aimee

Well, well, they also speak French. I mean, it's the National Lang. Oh, this fun fact. Before we close national languages in Morocco, Berber, which is the tribal language, Arabic and French. However, French is now going to be replaced in the public school system with English.

Rebecca

wow. Plus you had that note earlier that there was a lot more Spanish spoken than you expected as well, but this is the list of official

Aimee

Official. They're going. Yes, exactly. And most, you know, like Spain, most people, our generation and younger have some, some fluency in English from, you know, can get by to, you know, gen Z, gen Alpha, fully fluent in English down there.

Rebecca

Fascinating.

Aimee

If they have, if they've been, if they've been given the opportunity to get an education. Yeah.

Rebecca

Right. There's so much more we could say, but

Aimee

So much

Rebecca

for today,

Aimee

I didn't even get into the Google translation of the one newspaper sheet that was wrapped, that wrapped my son's

Rebecca

Or

Aimee

Moroccan news is

Rebecca

we also didn't get into the patriarchy, but you guys were out of time.

Aimee

We're outta time. We gotta, we gotta, we gotta shut this down. This is not the Joe Rogan show.

Rebecca

well, until the next time, my dear friends, AB.

Speaker

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person, brave enough to move abroad. See you next time.