Bonjhola

EP 84: Meeting Friends, Keeping Friends, Knowing When to Hold Them and When to Fold Them.

• Rebecca West

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Speaker 5

Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each move from the United States to Europe to become expats. Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure. Encourage you to follow your own, move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

Speaker

Banla, Rebecca,

Rebecca

Amy,

Speaker

how are you doing?

Rebecca

I am, I am. I wasn't expecting that question. I'm doing good. I am not in Paris right now, and so I am away from both of my boys, my husband, and my cat, which is something that I, it's sort of like the vegetables that people don't want to eat. I don't really look forward to traveling on my own, but it's really good for me. It reminds me that I can, and it reminds me of who I am without my bonded partners. Uh, it's very uncomfortable, but it's very healthy.

Speaker 3

That's not what I was where, that is not where I was expecting that to go. I was assuming that your cat and your husband were vegetables that you. Didn't want to have in your life, but we're ultimately very good for you.

Rebecca

they're my sweet, sweet dessert who happen to be very good for me. Yeah, you gotta remember folks who are listening. My husband does all of the cooking in our house. So without him, I don't eat the last two days in Portugal here in the apartment, 'cause I haven't made it to a grocery store yet. Um, are have been ramen noodles and Snickers.

Speaker 3

Oh, that's. That's very American of you.

Rebecca

It is, you know, some of my good eating habits do fall away when I leave Paris. France helps me be the kind of eater I want to be in a way that I haven't discovered in any other country, like Italy. The food is much healthier, but it's so delicious that you do kind of wanna just keep eating. Portugal. I can't really, it's not the Portuguese food. That's the hindrance. It's the fact that I'm here isolated. I don't choose to have a car. I'm here. I'm supposed to like stay at the apartment, write, get work done, walk to the beach. It's meant to be very focused. I'm not going out to eat and stuff, so I do not want to say that the Portuguese people are the reason that I'm eating Ramen and Snickers. They're just very packable in a suitcase.

Speaker 3

It's true, they are. Um, and so many other things which are so much healthier are also very packable in a suitcase.

Rebecca

What comes to your mind, dear nutritionist, friend?

Speaker 3

Well, I recently returned from the States and brought back some things that I have not been able to find or find at an appropriate price here in Spain, such as canned oysters, uh, dried mango with Chile. Um, and then pretty much everything else was junk food for my kid.

Rebecca

Now that we're being honest.

Speaker 3

Well, yes. However, um, I brought back a tin of sardines too that looked really good. I actually think they were imported from Portugal to the states and now they're back European Europe side, right? So, um,

Rebecca

Well, the challenge is that I flew a discount airline, and so my baggage options were very, very limited and the healthier foods. Way more as well.

Speaker 3

Did they weigh your carry on?

Rebecca

I was allowed a tiny undersea carry-on, and that was where all my work stuff went. That bag is quite full, um, with computers and stuff that I'm not willing to check. Um, and my cameras and all the, all the things that it requires to be an expat entrepreneur and, um. My luggage, well, obviously I put those food bits in there, but I like, I'm gonna be here for three weeks. There are certain non-negotiables for me that are more important than food, which include my very fluffy robe. And my, um, emotional support owl pillow.

Speaker 2

Yes.

Rebecca

You know, I'm not, I really don't have anything here that's comforting. And so it was really important for me to pack those things. And it's, they, they limit both the weight and the size dramatically. On viewing is the one I'm flying. So, you know, dried ramen packs pretty tight.

Speaker 3

so does dried fruit.

Rebecca

I can't argue with that as do nuts. Okay. But there is a little market that is within walking distance of the apartments, only 40 minute walk. Um, and I went down there yesterday, which was my first full day here, only to discover their closed on Mondays. So I did have a plan for adulting, just to be clear.

Speaker 2

Okay.

Speaker 3

Okay.

Rebecca

This food was just an emergency backup so that I would definitely have something to eat when I got here. How four Snickers bars got in there, I'm not really, um, I don't know. It wasn't with me.

Speaker 3

that was definitely Marie.

Rebecca

Let's blame the cat, but I do wanna share something wonderful that I experienced in Paris before I left town. Um, in the vein of making friends as an expat, I have just discovered a group called The Offline Club and it, so for a long, long time I've been wanting to go to one of those silent reading parties. You and I have talked about my introverted desires to have a party where nobody talks, and I finally got to go to one. So I find this on Instagram, which I obviously, the irony of that is delightful. Um.

Speaker 2

Oh, it is.

Rebecca

but I find it on Instagram. They have a ton of different events and they're throughout many cities. So like there's one in Amsterdam, a chapter in Amsterdam, and they have an event posted where everybody's going to get on the metro line together, which runs 45 minutes. Start to stop and they're going to knit and talk and read. It's like a metro takeover with people who are being human instead of staring at their phones. And it's still an open metro line and so regular people will still get on and I, I'm so curious if they'll notice that the vibe shift, but this one was a silent reading party for an hour and a half where when you show up, you. Voluntarily give them your phone and it's locked in a jail so that they're safe. Because it turns out the host actually had her phone stolen at an event like this before.

Speaker

Oh my goodness.

Rebecca

very careful with people's phones. Um, then you sit and there was a room for French speakers and there was a room for international English speakers. I chose that room because.

Speaker

A room.

Rebecca

Oh yeah. So we all met in this beautiful cafe called Lab and it has a couple of different rooms and so they take over the whole cafe. And one SEC section is for French people and one section is for people who definitely wanna communicate in English. Then we read in silence for an hour and a half, and then after that they ring a little bell and they hand out questions that you can ask each other about the books you are reading, and they give you postcards to put down people's contact information because you don't have your phones. So it was really well planned, really well organized, and absolutely delicious. I was over the moon happy, and I've already signed up for the December one.

Speaker 3

That sounds freaking amazing. And is this like kind of a, is this an international group? Is this just something that this woman in France created very locally? What's the story about?

Rebecca

I dunno who started it. Um, but I know that you can apply to become a host in your city and it feels like it's kind of like one host per city. After I went to this first event, they sent me a follow-up survey basically saying, you know, how was it, but also what are your interests? What's your experience? What would you like to bring to the, to the group, and would you like to host? So clearly it's kind of like a volunteer organization with. Somebody who started it, don't know, and then individual hosts in the cities. Like I said, I know it's in Paris, I know it's in Amsterdam. I looked at another couple of places that I can't remember off the top of my head. So it's definitely international in Europe. I don't remember off the top of my head if it's in America. But if it's not, folks start one. Because there is a craving right now in the world for human contact, and there's a craving even with the introverts. We just don't wanna talk to each other. We do wanna hang out with each other.

Aimee

So, what is this called again?

Rebecca

Um, I'm gonna actually tell you for real, I'm going to go to Instagram, which is where I found them. Okay, so the, the one in Paris on Instagram is all one word. The offline club underscore Paris. So that's the one I found, and I don't know the other ones, but that should at least get you started.

Speaker 3

That sounds really amazing.

Rebecca

It was absolutely spectacular. And I did a post afterwards, and what I said at the end was, I think I found my people.

Speaker 2

Aw.

Rebecca

I mean, it's like literally almost everybody in the room had real books. Not even a Kindle, not everybody, but real books and the, I mean, it's like. I wish I could describe the feeling for people who love a library. It's the same feeling as when you walk into a library and smell the books.

Speaker

Yeah, sounds incredible.

Rebecca

It really was. And then it was a really good day. This was the day before I left for Portugal and I, and I shouldn't have signed up for either of these things. I wasn't packed, but I have been looking for these things in my life for a long time. So I didn't wanna miss the opportunity. So afterwards. I actually was getting together with one of the designers that I met from Facebook way back almost two years ago now. She moved to the south of France right after we met. So I was like, oh, what a bummer. Well, turns out she was coming to Paris for a design expo and she messaged me and said, would you like to go with me? And so this friend that I met once, you know, these are the, these are the moments I don't have. Deep friendships in Paris and I miss them. I'm the kind of person who only has a couple of close friends at a time, but I do feel like I am finding ways, maybe not through food to nourish myself, but socially.

Speaker 3

Spiritual nourishment is just as important, if not more so than physical nourishment.

Rebecca

That makes sense to me. We read a lot of studies about how, you know, the key to longevity is less stress and less stress frequently comes from the positive relationships that we have. I think you're right.

Speaker 3

Absolutely. I mean, if you look at life expectancy, it isn't necessarily the person who eats the healthiest as much as it's the person who has purpose and meaning and community in their life.

Rebecca

And even if you don't live longer, you live better during the years you're living.

Speaker 3

A hundred percent.

Rebecca

Hmm. What's your friend experience been? You're two and a half years in now.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Two and a half years. We were really lucky. Um, there's a thriving expat community here in Serona. And we got tapped into some local people and local events very, very quickly. And so within a month of being here, I think we already had had more social events on our calendar than we had in the previous year in Seattle. Well, because Seattle, nobody has time to do anything.

Rebecca

True.

Speaker 3

With another person that they're not living or working with. So, um, that was, that was amazing. And you know, I have one very good friend here that I see weekly and um, someone else who I like a lot and she is less accessible. So we usually get together every couple of months, but she and her family are moving to Esto. Here next month actually, because they have a teenager that they moved here with who's been really struggling with Catalan and since she is in high school, language mastery is essential for her to get the kind of grades that she needs for university.

Rebecca

Yeah.

Speaker 3

So they've decided to relocate to an area of Spain where there isn't that challenge, that language challenge because her Spanish is fine. It's just the kalon she's really struggling with. And my understanding from what I've heard from multiple people is that cuddle on grammar is insane and. Very difficult. So it's in some ways a harder language to learn than Spanish.

Rebecca

But language is a really important part of this whole puzzle to bring up because I was very resistant to meeting expats when we first moved here. 'cause I was so determined to get better at French, which I think. Pros and cons. My French got better quicker, but I really did leave a social gap in my life. And then when you reach out to expat friends, which is awesome, I'm discovering you also have tapped into a friend group that is on the move because a lot of expats, even if they intend to be permanent, aren't, and a lot of them know they're not permanent. So you have to sort of embrace the idea that. Every friendship moment kind of stands on its own, like enjoy it without needing it to be a forever friendship,

Speaker

a hundred percent.

Speaker 3

Yeah. Or, or just be open to letting that friendship evolve. It may not necessarily. Dissipate if you're no longer in the same city, but it would look very different than when your neighbors or you know you're working together. Right.

Rebecca

And if I had a piece of advice that I wanted to share that I didn't know, one thing that you and I have said a million times is that this recording of Banla has really been, for us, it's about having a shared experience and without really knowing what I was doing, I did something similar with another friend in the United States. We set a Zoom time every two weeks on the calendar, and mostly for now, two and a half year or two years for me, we have had that date. And it has been a remarkably great way to stay close friends. And so my piece of advice for people would be, we live now use this technology and rely on these forms of communication that aren't just audio. Like a phone call is fine, but being able to see your face, Amy, even though nobody can see us 'cause it's a podcast, is. Really important. And in fact, I would even say if somebody's out there thinking of recording a podcast for this purpose, you know, creating a record of your journey, Amy and I keep our video on so that we're in the same room together. It creates a better conversation for a podcast. I think

Speaker

Oh, a hundred percent.

Rebecca

like the food, like the friendships, it nourishes me to see your face. I love it.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah. There's two people from the states that I have stayed in communication with since we've left via Zoom calls monthly, you know, monthly. Um, one of them, one of my friends calls at a happy hour, so she has her morning coffee, and then I have an evening beverage, which, you know, may or may not be alcoholic and. And we just connect and chat and go over how things are going for us. And it's been really great. It has been really great. And I, you know, after having such a difficult experience socially in Seattle with people who are, I think just too caught up in things and too distracted to prioritize what's really important, um. With regards to community and friendship, I feel really fortunate that this time, you know, I have two people that were willing to regular three. I mean, if I'm counting you as well, right? To regularly schedule something so that we can maintain our friendship. That I was lucky enough to have, you know, somebody who cared enough. To prioritize an hour a month just to stay in touch.

Rebecca

And it's not to throw shade at the people in Seattle or all of the United States. We're not choosing what's most important because we're not told what's most important. We're told to shop, we're told to work. We're told to eat. Those are the most important things you can do as an American according to all of the input we get every day.

Speaker 3

I disagree. I think people of our age. Are old enough to know better, and I think that the majority of people are intelligent enough that they wouldn't buy that story. But my assessment is that, and this of course may be very much a Seattle experience. That people are so frantically caught up in doing their work, taking care of their families, trying to manage day-to-day living that friendships, investing time in friendships. Anything other than a very casual, convenient friendship is, is no longer a priority. It doesn't have the. It doesn't have the urgency pull, right? If, if you've, uh, if anybody knows about Stephen Covey's or I don't think he actually is the one to have created it, but you know the quadrant where you have, when you're deciding how you're going to spend your time, you have things which are urgent and important. Things which are urgent but not important things which are not important and not urgent, and things which are not urgent, but very important. And our friendships in our community I think are often those things which are very important, but often not urgent.

Rebecca

Yeah, they've become a nice to have, not a need to have.

Speaker 3

Right, and, and, but that, that's the lie I think from the majority of people, they are a need to have. And between, you know, spending our twenties and thirties, or really for probably the majority of people now thirties and forties, hustling and prioritizing the. Urgent and usually important tasks of career and family. We have lost that muscle of kinship and community, and I think a lot of people don't. They doubt themselves in their ability to rekindle that or doubt that other people would be interested in them reaching out and trying to establish something. I think the most difficult thing for myself has been when I do invest in reaching out and I'm not met with the reciprocity of, of interest. That's always deeply disappointing to me and not, not because I think these people don't actually care about the friendship. I, I know that they do, but they just don't like, I, I make it easy. For them and there's no bite. Right. And I've, you know, one of the things that I've been very, very adamant about in my, you know, starting in my thirties, my, my mid to late thirties was that I'm not, I'm not gonna chase anybody anymore. I'm not, I just can't invest when I'm not receiving anything back.

Rebecca

I think that makes sense and it's important to draw those boundaries just like in any relationship. And I think that's going back to the offline club. I think that's why I got so excited about this event because. As adults, it can be really hard to find people who are simpatico, right? We're surrounded by our work colleagues and our kids' friends. We may or not have anything in actual common with these people, whereas when you go to a great big meetup of people who own dachshunds and want to walk them together, which just happened in Paris, or a place where you're gonna read for an hour and a half in silence, that automatically says. You are in a circle of people who in at least one way are like you, and it creates a spark that doesn't require as much fanning to turn into a fire.

Speaker 3

A hundred percent. And that was why Meetup was such an amazing thing when it was so big in the States. It's still very big internationally. Uh, meetup is huge in Barcelona. I live my, you know, the town that we live in is, is much too small, I think for Meetup to have really. Taken off, at least with English speakers I haven't even looked for, for anything else. Um, and that was, you know, when I first left Seattle in my early thirties and moved down to San Diego for a couple of years, that's how I met people was through Meetup running groups. And then I started hosting Meetup running groups. And it was a great way to meet people.

Rebecca

Yeah, exactly. So I guess the takeaway friends is if you want to make some friends, there's a lot of ways to do that.

Speaker 3

If you wanna keep the friends you have, there are lots of ways to do that.

Rebecca

It does take a little bit of courage, um, and faith. It's not, I'm not gonna pretend I wasn't nervous going, of course I was, but it's really, really worth trying anyway, your life, my life is now richer because of this one event, and I'm so excited to see what happens with it.

Speaker 3

So the offline club is the name of the International Club

Rebecca

Oh, you're looking it up.

Speaker 3

Yep. Where, people, as one website says, swap screen time for real time.

Rebecca

Exactly. And there's another one that we've talked about before in this podcast in Paris called ro, C-A-R-O-M. Um, it's, it's more like just going out for dinners and it tends to be a little bit fancier, places, a little bit spender. The point being that there are lots of movements like this. And don't just look for one. It might not be the one for you. Keep looking, keep trying, show up. Try a Toastmasters group. That was the biggest way I made a lot of my friends in Seattle. there's so many places there is a place for you.

Speaker 3

With big groups like that, you know, if it's not like a very small, tiny. Go more than once because there will be different people, different hosts, and it's not really giving it a fair shot if you just go once and say, oh, I didn't click with anybody. It's not for me.

Rebecca

Yes, and chapters are not all equal. Each chapter will have its own vibe. There were Toastmasters groups that wanted me to, I like, I literally wanted to pull up my own toenails. I was so bored in that room. So you gotta find your chapter. But it's also a great way to travel because if you're deeply embedded in your home chapter, it makes it a little easier to show up in another place and be like, yeah, I'm a Toastmaster member, or whatever in Seattle, and I'm in Minneapolis, and I just thought I'd show up. People are so welcoming in that scenario. I really do feel excited because I feel like. There's a new wave of social clubs coming and I've been saying it as being inclusive is like the new exclusivity. Everybody can have a place and we're all welcome

Speaker

I think that's fantastic. Inclusivity is the next exclusivity.

Rebecca

Great. as you know, folks, we love hearing from you. So if you are having friendship adventures or finding these kinds of apps and you think people should know about them, please reach out to us and tell us about your experiences. We'll talk about them on air so that everybody can be winning this game of life together in as much as we can.

Speaker 3

All right, folks, until we meet again.

Speaker 4

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person, brave enough to move abroad. See you next time.