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EP 88: Home Alone in Paris - How Rebecca is Coping With Her Husband Away; navigating safety in different cultures

• Rebecca West

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Welcome to Bon Jola, a podcast about two women, Amy and Rebecca, who each move from the United States to Europe to become expats. Amy to Spain and Rebecca to France. We're here to share the highs, the lows, and the logistics of this adventure. Encourage you to follow your own, move abroad dreams, and remind you that you're not alone when the going gets tough. Enjoy.

Aimee

Rebecca

Rebecca

Angela Amy.

Aimee

Happy Kings Day, by the way.

Rebecca

Oh, that must mean that there is gonna be a King's cake in my future. Here we have a GTE DUIs that they make in France, which is,

Aimee

Ah,

Rebecca

yeah, it's that time of year. Thank you for saying those words.

Aimee

you are very welcome. Yes. I thought, I mean, I did. I was like, Kings Day is this week. I don't know when my son said it was today. But there was the, the big parade last night, and I totally missed it because I thought it was happening today, but it's last night. And then I didn't realize that, that, that I missed it until I heard the explosion of fireworks going on at the cathedral, a couple doors down. And it was like, oh crap, we missed it. But I did run out to the bakery this morning and was able to get a slice of King's cake to bring home. Um, and same as last year, my, the portion of the slice that I took had the rock in it.

Rebecca

Fortune smiles upon you.

Aimee

Two for two. Actually, the Rock means I have to buy King's Cake next year.

Rebecca

Oh, fortune does not smile upon you.

Aimee

No, no, there is, I think in Catalonia they put an actual little king instead of baby Jesus. They put like a little king inside the cake and there's, and then there's a rock. And if you get the rock, you have to buy

Rebecca

Oh,

Aimee

king's cake next year. If you get the king, then luck is bestowed upon you. I get rocks.

Rebecca

that's really funny. Well, as a geology enthusiast, I think you win.

Aimee

Well, the rock is like a painted clay rock shaped thing, and last year it was painted orange and had a smiley face, and this year it had a rat painted on it. So

Rebecca

What to make of that

Aimee

I dunno exactly. I don't know what to make about that.

Rebecca

Now, the king's cake where you are, I don't know if it's the same as the, the G de or completely different. Can you describe what your cake is like?

Aimee

Uh, for our American listeners, it very much looks like King's cake for Mardi Gras. It's got the candied fruit in it. It's

Rebecca

Oh, like, okay, so like a fruitcake?

Aimee

not a Christmas fruit cake like we have no.

Rebecca

Oh, no.

Aimee

It's, so, it's shaped like a ring. It has the, uh, weird, scary colored, dried fruit in it

Rebecca

Yes.

Aimee

and sliver almonds. And then it has, the dough has like an orange essence in it. Um, and then here in Catalonia, you can get it either stuffed with Marsan. Or with crema, and I opted for the marza pan because that looked like more the traditional king's cake. The crema stuffed one didn't have the dried, like it didn't have all the crazy dried fruit in it. And it, I didn't see any nuts in there. Um, so I went for the traditional one.

Rebecca

Now when you say it's stuffed, so I'm picturing, well, here's what I'm picturing right now, because I dunno, this cake, I'm picturing a ring cake obviously. Has kind of the density of like a, a carrot cake, a fruit cake, like a denser cake.

Aimee

Take the density and turn, turn, turn the cake into a brioche.

Rebecca

Oh,

Aimee

It's not, yeah, it's not cake like we think of cake.

Rebecca

and, and then how is it stuffed? Are they like,

Aimee

i.

Rebecca

are they like injecting it with the cream? Is it in the middle of the

Aimee

they, well, it's, it's marsan on the inside, so I think they rolled the dough, they rolled marsan into the dough and then baked it. So there's a chunk, you know, there's a chunk of marsan in the middle of the dough, and then the top is glazed with sugar and the fruits and the almonds and stuff.

Rebecca

Oh my gosh. It's really kind of funny trying to describe a food,

Aimee

It is.

Rebecca

right? Based on, okay, so what will you know, and how can I describe this for you?

Aimee

Yeah. Yeah. So it is more a bread than a cake for sure.

Rebecca

Okay. And then how big are they?

Aimee

The, you can get the small, which is the size of a large dinner plate, or you can get a large. Which is the size of a large pizza. In terms of the diameter of the circle. It's not a full circle. It's hollowed out like a donut. Right. It's a ring cake. It's a ring. It's not, it's not a cake as we know cake, but it's, it's a ring shaped yeasted pastry.

Rebecca

There are. The place you're here in Europe that don't really seem to exist in the United States,

Aimee

A hundred percent pastry gets super complex on this continent.

Rebecca

guys? Well, the King's cake, the GT deis in France is, um, it's a flat, kind of looks like, just a great big flat pancake shape, and I'm pretty sure it's made out of that layered dough. what is that? There's philo and then there's puff pastry. I think this is more of a puff pastry dough.

Aimee

Wow.

Rebecca

It's just a solid, there's no ring to it or anything. So solid big flat pancake that's maybe two, two inches tall. And then inside I'm pretty sure is a bunch of marza pan. Actually, you, again, I'm not the cook, so I'm just thinking about what am I, what do I think I'm eating? Pretty sure what I'm getting is a whole bunch of puff pastry with a whole bunch of marzipan, and then it has sort of a, a golden baked look to it. It's a very simple pastry made of the world's best ingredients.

Aimee

Because you are in France.

Rebecca

Well,'cause I love No, I have, I love Marsan. I have loved Marsan since growing up in Germany.

Aimee

Okay. Wow. Interesting. See, I didn't like, I had marsan once in the States like the little marsan fruit things. It was like, yeah, super cute. Way too sweet. Kind of icky, whatever they're putting in the king's cake. I really like. It's lovely.

Rebecca

Well, there's differences in quality'cause maran is supposed to be almond paste, sugared almond paste.

Aimee

right.

Rebecca

Obviously the cheap brands are gonna be more sugar than actual almond paste'cause almonds are expensive.

Aimee

Yeah, they are.

Rebecca

And so, yeah, you're gonna get a difference in quality and you're also going to get, um, a difference in freshness. A lot of those are so stale that they're just kind of dried hard nuggets of sugar.

Aimee

That sounds about like what I tasted Yeah. Before. Yeah. And I was like, this marzipan thing is gross.

Rebecca

and I a hundred percent still like that too. Like there's no marsan. I won't, but there is better maran than than others. Kinda like chocolate too. It's same situation.

Aimee

Interesting. Yeah.

Rebecca

I wanna say they bake a bean into the cake. I wanna say they do you know, an un, a dry bean, like a kidney bean or something that, maybe bean, but I'll have to fact check myself on that.

Aimee

It's pretty, I, I think like the, I think that is pretty standard worldwide is to put that in there. Um, yeah, it am, it am. Like the whole king's cake thing is that feels very worldwide. You know, it is in, in parts of the us It's definitely all throughout like Central and South America. It's here in Europe, everywhere. Um,

Rebecca

But it's actually not part of my growing up because I think it's a Catholic thing.

Aimee

yes, I believe yes, because Kings Day is I, isn't it also Epiphany? Is that

Rebecca

I think it's epiphany and that's not something that is part of my Protestant upbringing at all.

Aimee

Yeah. Well, we didn't, even though I grew up Catholic, we did not celebrate King's Day in Alaska wasn't a thing. Um, I've been to Mexico at Christmas. I've not been to Mexico during King's Day, so I don't know if King's Day is a big deal in. Mexico, I want to say it is because there wasn't really a lot of presents for Christmas. and for those of you who aren't. Accustomed to King's Day here in Europe. King's Day is when the pre, like, at least in Spain, this is when the presents are given. It's not Christmas, it's not Santa Claus. It is the three wise men who bring the gifts to the children, not Saint Nick. Just as they brought gifts to baby Jesus, they bring gifts to the children. So here in Spain. Uh, yesterday the children would've put shoes out for the kings to put gifts in, and that's where, that's where they would've received their gifts is from the kings, not from the guy who comes down your shimony and breaks into your house.

Rebecca

that's really fascinating. I'm really glad that I have that information now in my head. I never gave it any thought. I was just like, yay cake.

Aimee

Yeah. Really? Yeah. And I didn't know, I didn't know King's Day was a thing until I was in my twenties and I met a Cuban woman who was like, oh yeah, we don't do Christmas. We do King's Day. And I'm like, what?

Rebecca

Fascinating. Well, I. get to actually get myself a Gvo this Thursday because I'm going to a new networking group and they meet at a, apparently. Some fancy pastry shop and it's the time of the year. So like the whole chat group is about like, oh, and we can get the cake. So that's what everybody's most excited about.

Aimee

Awesome. So is the networking group a local French group? Is it an expat networking group? What kind of networking group is it?

Rebecca

Alright, so I. I can't say that I am just giving up on French. I am not. I just wanna put that out there first. But no, I have filled my life with social and it's all in English because left me and I realized that I have a hole in my soul and I have to fill it and I can't fill it in French. I. I have a meaningful conversation in French, and I spent the last two years of my life not having meaningful conversations and I can't keep going like that.

Aimee

That's what early parenthood is like.

Rebecca

That makes sense.

Aimee

Yeah. You spend your whole day with someone that is not like, there's just no, there's no deep meaningful language happening.

Rebecca

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's okay for a while. And I really intentionally chose that going into this adventure.'cause I was like, I'm not gonna be one of those expats who can't speak the local language. That's a bigger ask of yourself than you realize it's going to be. Because it's not just about learning the language, it's about forming friendships, forming social connections. Things that are fundamentally human, whether or not you like people or not, they're like vegetables. We do actually operate better when we put those into our body.

Aimee

So true.

Rebecca

And so, yeah, I have a good, I have four, I think I have 14 different social events that I've put on my calendar while Damien's gone. This one's, um, this one's, uh, what is it? They called themselves the Opera Women's, no Opera Super Women's or something like that. Just, you know, women of our age together and sharing resources is my impression. I met, I found out about it when I went to an English speaking comedy club,

Aimee

Ooh,

Rebecca

and because the whole room was filled with English people. English speaking people. I felt free for the first time in two years to turn to my neighbor and say, hi, do you like to talk to your neighbors? Do you prefer to be silent? Which led to a whole conversation. And then she invited me to her networking group and I'm like, I remember what this used to feel like. This is incredible.

Aimee

Yeah.

Rebecca

Yeah. And then I'm going to another one, and I just love the title of this. It's Entrepreneurs co-working on a boat. I'm basically just because the title's amazing.

Aimee

That's so amazing and I am like, now why did that never happen in Seattle? Because the sound is right there. Tons of people have boats. Hello. That really could have been a thing. So easily get with the program, Seattle, get with the program.

Rebecca

Yeah, indeed. It is a little easier here because it's not somebody's boat on the Sun River. There are a ton of docked, like they kind of feel like old ferry boats, like they're big open barge boats and they are used as their cafes. There are restaurants, there are dance spaces, there are event spaces. One of them's a pool is the

Aimee

That is so cool. That is so cool.

Rebecca

So that's the kind of boat I will be on is a barge like cafe docked on the Sun River.'cause.'cause why not?

Aimee

Now I know why that does not happen in Seattle, because making a boat into a public space would require so much red tape to be gone through that it's a non-starter.

Rebecca

Yeah. Although I will say that if anybody is looking to, you know, host book clubs or have, you know, bring social into their lives, and I know this is a craving across the whole world right now, if you live on a houseboat, I strongly recommend that you make your house a social hub.'cause it would be amazing.

Aimee

Yeah, for sure.

Rebecca

And when your home is the social hub, you don't have to go anywhere and you can kick them out when you're done with them.

Aimee

But you do have to clean the house and keep it clean

Rebecca

Oh, no, no. That is my favorite part about hosting a party because it forces me to get everything reset in my home, so I get the benefit of social and the joy of a clean house.

Aimee

Not everybody's like you, Rebecca.

Rebecca

Well, you can be. It is the first thing I did when Damien left. I, I felt so unsettled. He's gonna be away from me for 48 days. That's the longest we've ever been apart in our marriage, and I felt really unsettled. So I did, I cleaned the house from top to bottom because for me, what that feels like is I have no control over anything. At least I can clean the toilet

Aimee

Yeah.

Rebecca

and it starts to bring me back to like a centered place and like, okay, you're here, there's no actual tigers, you're fine. And then the like physical, calm. I feel being in a clean space makes me go, all right. I can handle everything else.

Aimee

Mm-hmm. That makes a lot of sense.

Rebecca

I also cleared a big old hairy clog from my shower drain, so you know, winning.

Aimee

Exciting times for Rebecca in Paris. Folks, you heard it first here.

Rebecca

I mean, this is X Life. X life is regular life, but leveled up in terms of difficulty because you're doing it all in systems and languages. You don't understand.

Aimee

Indeed. Indeed. I'm excited to hear how those networking events go.

Rebecca

Me too. Me too. I, I've been going, I know what, 3, 4, 5 episodes ago I told you I discovered the offline club.

Aimee

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca

So I've been to that three times now. Once as a very nervous, new guest once as a co-host. So fun. And this last time was a different event. It wasn't silent reading, it was, um, mapping your life like one of those New Year's life strategizing sessions.

Aimee

Yeah, kind of like vision boarding.

Rebecca

Yeah, and it was really cool. It was led by this gal, Ann Meyer, who is the author of a book that I can't remember the name of right now, but her whole thing is using maps to get the things out of your head and create ideas. And she started by doing maps on bananas. So it's super adorable. Love it.

Aimee

Can you, um, can you share more about that?

Rebecca

I can't,'cause that's not what happened at this event. I just know that this is true about events she has hosted. She'll apparently hand everybody a banana and you draw a map on a banana, and I do not know why, but it sounds delightful.

Aimee

Okay. That's weird. That's all I can say about that. That sounds super weird.

Rebecca

I am guessing that it's about the idea of doing art that you're not so invested in because it's by its nature, temporary, you can't hold onto it.

Aimee

Yeah, you have to compost it.

Rebecca

Yeah, and I think it's sort of like those rituals where you write down 12 wishes and then you burn them. It's, it's about gathering your thoughts, but also releasing them. But that's not what this event was. This event was just.

Aimee

draw? What did you draw your map on, Rebecca?

Rebecca

It's actually really funny that you asked me that. So the whole event was just normal. It's just markers and paper. I was at the grocery store a couple weeks ago and I saw this stack of plates where they had packaged them with a single piece of paper between each plate,

Aimee

Oh yeah.

Rebecca

the round pieces of paper, and people had been buying a bunch of plates and not taking the papers. There's a big stack of these round. Big plate shaped pieces of paper. And I was just like, well, what I really thought was that I was gonna take'em all home and turn'em into snowflakes and put'em on my window like we did in kindergarten,

Aimee

Mm-hmm.

Rebecca

but I never got around to it. So I did a map on one of these round pieces of paper, which was so cool'cause it sort of felt like you were drawing on a globe or something. Like it really shifts where you draw and how, and I ended up drawing a. Basically an outer space map with the earth in the middle, because that's the only home I can claim right now. Like I'm, I am a citizen of Earth. That is my only home. I don't belong anywhere. I don't even belong in my apartment because it doesn't belong to me. I've, I've been living in other people's spaces for years now. And so my map was really about me trying to figure out what home means for me. Right now, I've been feeling homesick, but that isn't for Seattle per se. It's not for the United States, per se. It's, it's for the things you have to give up in order to move to a whole nother country. Your cultural references, your breakfast cereals, you know, your red dye. Number seven, like I miss. Aren't necessarily healthy for me because they represent home. So that's what.

Aimee

Do you think all of this is coming up so strongly? You know, you're almost two years in now because you are uprooting again and leaving Paris. And going into some, like basically starting the process all over again except for the blessing that you at least will have continuity of language and likely continuity of appliances working the same general way as every appliance that you've had and brands at the grocery store being familiar because you are within the same nation, right? So it's not a hundred percent starting from scratch, but it also kind of is.

Rebecca

It's coming in two layers.'cause you are completely on the money there. So the first layer is exactly what you just said. I'm about, I finally am getting my feet under me in Paris. I'm finally creating a social network and I'm about to rip the rug out from under my feet voluntarily again. So, Yeah. That's huge and I'm really anxious about, well, one, I'm anxious about finishing up the bureaucracy of my cart, Vitale, oh, which by the way, tomorrow I have my prefecture appointment for my cart Seur, which is the non passport version of my card that says I'm allowed to be here.

Aimee

Oh, great.

Rebecca

Tomorrow, I should have that in my hands. It is huge. So that is a remarkable check mark that I, and I wanna get these check marks before I move. The other one is my cart Vital. That's the health insurance card. I have done absolutely every step, and now I'm just waiting. And of course the male thing is anxiety and inducing. So I'm hoping that those are done because then there comes a whole nother level. We have to now register ourselves with a different pre fixture at the, at the new Marie. So the pre fixture's, like saying, shit, the DMV kind of, except for if the DMV was for, passports.

Aimee

yeah. Yeah.

Rebecca

The Marie is the town hall, so it's the place that registers that you exist and it's like, I think that's where the health insurance has to be registered. Like you change your address with all these places. So yeah, having almost completed the basic bureaucracy of moving to France, I'm about to have to a whole bunch of it over.

Aimee

That sounds great.

Rebecca

And that's just layer one because my husband's only doing an internship. That internship last four and a half months, our lease lasts a year, but my husband has started asking me. What do you wanna do next? Because the agreement was we do this for him and then I get to pick the next thing

Aimee

Oh.

Rebecca

holy shit. I don't know. I dunno what I, oh my, don't ask me what I want. So, yeah, so that, that looming cliff is on the other side of the first looming cliff, and I'm fine. I'm fine, Amy. I'm totally fine.

Aimee

Well, your decision could be not to make a decision because you're not ready.

Rebecca

It feels like there's just too many things that are unknown. We don't know how the internship's gonna go. We don't know how much we're gonna love being in Mentone or not.

Aimee

Yeah,

Rebecca

I don't have enough information to make that decision yet.

Aimee

yeah, precisely. Precisely. Any more than I have a decision about what I'm want to do with my life two years from now

Rebecca

Right. And it's really unsettling and uncomfortable. We keep.

Aimee

I think I'm quite a bit more comfortable with it than you are because I've, um, I guess to some degree never really felt in control of my life or felt that I had to have control of my life. Life is inherently uncontrollable. And the only thing I have control over is myself. So crazy life circumstances don't really generally throw me off too much, and that feeling of not having a place and not belonging, like I've also felt that my entire life. So I have. Grieved not having that, but I don't miss it because I never had it. I kind of miss the, that must be nice. It must be nice to have like a sense of rootedness somewhere that must feel secure. Sort of like actually believing that there's a God out there who cares for you and has your back. Also must feel really nice when life is kind of crazy.

Rebecca

It is a facade. I mean, I, I'll be the first to admit that I have been scrambling for control my whole entire life. Control shows up for me mostly in being able to say, well, I can't do it anything with what's outside of the doors. I can at least do something with what's inside of the doors,

Aimee

Yeah.

Rebecca

but I also recognize that it is a facade. There is no actual control. I, an asteroid could fall on me right now. Um, and I am uncomfortable with that reality. And sometimes I'm like, I should be strong enough to face reality, you know, naked. But we all have our coping mechanisms.

Aimee

for sure.

Rebecca

You can't get along without it. You just can't. You just want those coping mechanisms to be healthy.

Aimee

That's the dream.

Rebecca

Right. Do we do drugs or do we go for a run? Do we eat the cookies or do we eat the salad? You know, these aren't, these are all choices. Some of them.

Aimee

Why not all of the above?

Rebecca

well, yeah. I mean. Then you've got the, oh, my plate is too full problem, which is another problem that I have regularly.

Aimee

No, no, no. You combine them, for instance, drugs and running. You do what's, you know, very popular in many cities is beer runs where you run from bar to bar and drink and run, right?

Rebecca

Did you see that I.

Aimee

cookies for breakfast. Oh, I didn't see that. You eat cookies for breakfast and salad for lunch. Like you can do all the things.

Rebecca

There is literally a marathon that I just sent you on Instagram where it's, it's here in France somewhere, and it's you, you eat on the run. There's wine, there's food. People finish the marathon, tipsy. And I think that it's, it, it's like actually said like if you finish, like that's how it's written. If you finish, you get a bottle of wine or something like that at

Aimee

whoa.

Rebecca

That's my kind of marathon.

Aimee

That sounds terrible.

Rebecca

And this is why there are parties for every kind of person.

Aimee

Exactly, exactly.

Rebecca

Uh, what else? Um. Oh, so on my social list there is the offline group is trying to set a world record of the number of people who will meet in front of the Eiffel Tower to make a wish at the same time, and they're aiming for 800 people, so I will be in that crowd.

Aimee

I like that. Eight hundred's, not a lot. That should be easy to do.

Rebecca

Luckily, I'm not in charge, I just have to show up as a body. We'll see how easy it was. Um, I'm also threatening myself to go dress up in Gatsby clothes, to go to Laup Poll and take myself dancing without a husband. I don't yet know that's this Friday. I don't yet know if I have, I don't know, whatever it takes to actually follow through on that. Should I, should I do this? It's like all the issues. going out late at night, you're a female, you're going out in an outfit that's like pretty, but you're married, but you really wanna dance with people just to dance because as any ballroom dancer out their nose, it's about the dancing, not the partner. But there's a lot there.

Aimee

I think that is a very American perspective, and so again, my experience is different because I'm in a smaller town and I'm in Spain and not in France, but I feel super safe being out at night alone here. I don't have any worries about that. The culture here is different, and so I don't, well, they're not puritans, so I don't feel that it's wrong that others will perceive me as going out fishing for something I shouldn't if I go dancing by myself. In this country, right? I'm not, I don't feel the same expectation that as a woman I should be, you know, little Holly homemaker, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. and while my husband's gone, I just do to flee, sit and wait for him to return. that's not, fuck that shit. Um, pardon my language folks. so I don't feel like, that doesn't feel like part of this culture. And so none of that story, I don't associate anything in that story with what it would be like to live in Paris. ex. My thought would be, well, you as a woman, going out dancing for the sake of dancing would be perceived as you, as a woman going out dancing for the sake of dancing. And if a man. Didn't notice or chose to ignore the diamond on your finger and you were like, no, no, no, I'm just here for the dance. I would imagine he would respect that and not be like those drunk 20 something guys in the bars who can't take no for an answer. Because Europe more sophisticated is my probably super naive story that I tell myself.

Rebecca

Well, and the naivete is part of what I kind of dance around because it's actually not at the dance that I have any concerns. It's the coming and the going. You know, the metro and I. Actually have very few fears myself. The fears that I am carrying are 100% coming from my husband, my mother, and the internet. So other, other people's stories of being harassed, right? Or my mom or my husband saying. Are you, are you sure you wanna walk alone at night? Please don't walk alone at night. And I know that I, I am a very naive and trusting person and I don't want to walk through the world in fear. And I also know that there are actual dangers. And so it's me more trying to figure out which of these fears are appropriate and real. How do I be. Appropriately safe with my existence. Not be stupid, foolish. Um, you know, drinking a whole bottle of champagne and then riding the metro home at one in the morning. As a single female, you're increasing your risks of something stupid happening, including just falling on your face while walking down the street. I don't have a good sense of my own. What is it? Wellbeing boundaries, restrictions. Which rules, quote rules Should I follow? I dunno.

Aimee

It sounds like you haven't had enough opportunity to test the world because someone's always been protecting you, or you've been hypervigilant and taken those voices internally and not seeing what's true for you.

Rebecca

Yeah, because remember you said, you said a second ago, you're like, I'm not a little home, uh, Suzy Homemaker. Like that's, you've got some stories there. I don't have that story, even though I should given my upbringing. What I did get from my upbringing is girls are fragile. Girls need to be protected. A man is the protector. You cannot protect yourself. In my head, I both agree and disagree with that. I want to completely disagree with it,

Aimee

Yeah, but the reality is men are stronger.

Rebecca

reality is men are stronger, more aggressive. I, I don't know. And I'm like, and I'm like, at 48 and a half years old, I really thought I'd have this part figured out.

Aimee

Yeah, I mean, there's also the fact that it's a big city with a lot of people around and also, at least here in Spain, unlike the US. If something happens to you, everybody rushes in to help you. Male, female, young and old, they all rush in to come to your assistance.

Rebecca

say that's true in Paris.

Aimee

Hmm. That sucks. Wow. Well, do they, do they do the American thing of just taking out your phone and videoing you while you bleed to death on the sidewalk or?

Rebecca

I haven't been in a situation to observe that, and I don't know, I hope I wouldn't be the person observing that because that means I'm also in the crowd. But I do have a real example of this. We were walking, we were descending into the metro a week ago, and the guy, um, older guy, let's say he was 60 ish. Was in front of both of us and he was swaying. And the first time that somebody sways in front of you, you're like, stop looking at your phone. Why are you being stupid? Why are you cutting me off? And then he continued to sway. He was clearly losing his balance and the, you could feel the whole crowd, including Damien and I kind of pause and you're assessing, you're going, is this person okay? And will I be okay? Interacting with this person. So now you've got safety coming up in your head, you're on the metro. Those are drunk people. Homeless people, French people, do they speak English. If I even try to help, I'm not even from here. I don't even have any resources aside from helping somebody carefully sit down and then be like, thumbs up, cope. You're okay? Because I can't communicate with you. Like the number of things that go through your head. In a big city, when you see somebody in crisis and you're trying to decide if you should be the one to step in is so dumb.

Aimee

Yeah, I have had the situation where I was like, oh, I feel like I should do something here, but I don't even have the words to say anything or, yeah, that, that sucks. That really sucks, especially when the culture here is so strongly. Reach in, make sure they're okay. Take

Rebecca

That's really cool because no,

Aimee

Yeah, it

Rebecca

else around us, we mostly just said, okay, he's clearly sitting on the side now he's not passed out, and he was waving. Like off, like, like, yes, I'm dizzy, but I'm okay. And we all, we all walked on

Aimee

Yeah.

Rebecca

and I don't, I don't like that story. I don't like how that story went, but that's how, that's how it played out in Paris.

Aimee

Yeah.

Rebecca

What do you think would've happened if in that same situation, but if it had been where you are?

Aimee

Um, everybody would've immediately like, grabbed him to stabilize him to make sure he didn't fall down. And I think if he was like, no, no, I'm fine, I'm fine. They would've been like, okay. And backed off, but kept eyes on him to make sure in case he did fall, um. Yeah, everyone here is very good about, and I found that experience to be true in Mexico as well. They don't. They don't ask permission. They don't wait and see. They rush in and help you. Like when we lived in Mexico, my son was, under two and I remember being in Mexico City and trying to leave the subway with a stroller and there wasn't an elevator, there was stairs. And so I'm, you know, kind of. Approaching the stairs and trying to figure out how to get up. And this guy just walks up, picks up my son in the stroller and carries him up the stairs for me. And at first I'm like, oh my God, what the, he? What? What's happening? But then it's like, oh. He's helping me. Whoa. That's a thing people do in a city this big. What on earth is going on? And there were multiple times where stuff like that happened and if, you know, all of my son was running around and he tripped and fell or something, immediately like three, four people would rush in, pick him up, make sure he was okay before, you know, his parents could even get to him. There were other people around who came in. And comforted him and, you know, picked him up and, and I find that here too in Catalonia is like everyone rushes in to support and help and assess. There is just this humanity that is a deep part of the culture here that isn't gone

Rebecca

and. Jerome is not a huge city, but in Mexico was that like in Mexico City? Like

Aimee

That was in Mexico City.

Rebecca

that's remarkable. That is really interesting.

Aimee

And you know, I, I thought it was wonderful in Guanajuato when we were in Guanajuato. I just, I loved that, but when it happened in the subway in Mexico City, I was like, holy smokes. It even happens in the big cities.

Rebecca

It's hard though because. For, go back. Going back to the naivete Right, and the, and the split second judgments we're making, I have definitely seen people and even involved, been involved with myself helping with like luggage on the metro stairs, strollers on the metro stairs. I have definitely seen that. I have also been in a position when I was by myself carrying my own luggage and a guy offered to help me and I said, no. My first no was, I've got this. Because I am an able-bodied person. But my second note was, I dunno what you're gonna do with my luggage. I dunno if you're gonna run off with my luggage. And then also, one of the things that happens in Paris a lot, and in other cities that we travel to, especially around train stations and airports, anytime there's transportation, you get these very helpful people who are like, I'll help you find your train, I'll help you with your whatever. And then, then they demand money. So even if they rob you. Now you're in this super awkward position. So all of that is in your head, especially when you are the traveler it's safer to just reject help because if you're balancing, is this a good or a bad situation? Safety is in assuming the worst, which is awful place to live.

Aimee

It is. Yeah. And, but everything is context dependent. You know, if you don't have luggage, if it's just. To you and you trip and fall and someone offers to help you, right? Like it, it's all context dependent. If you're in a foreign city and you're carrying luggage and you are obviously looking like a lost foreigner, that is a situation where the smart wise thing to do is keep your guard up, but

Rebecca

Yeah, because you look like a target.

Aimee

Yeah, you do. You look like a target. And it could also be said, you know, and I think your husband and probably your mother would say, well, you are a woman by yourself in a skirt at night in a city. Therefore you are a target. And

Rebecca

Yeah.

Aimee

that's where I would say, not necessarily all of the time. Does this mean you put your earbuds in, turn the music up very loud and tune out your environment? No, of course not. No woman, no intelligent woman ever does that under any circumstance when she's alone, no matter where she is, however.

Rebecca

Plus no mansion either'cause we're crossing streets and cars don't care about you.

Aimee

Fair point. However, should you sequester yourself in your house because you have boobs and wanna go out and address. No. No. Like you miss so much in life doing that. And again, I think that is such an excessively pessimistic view of humanity that is so normalized now in the states that it is causing us to treat one another less than human. And I'm gonna stop there. Otherwise, I'll go on a massive rant that no one needs to hear.

Rebecca

No, but I do, I'm glad you said it. Because we learn our behavior and then we act out our behavior and it is a self-fulfilling prophecy and we do need to be aware of it. I think this conversation, I like this conversation'cause it's helping me. Make more conscious choices. I still don't know what that choice will be, but at least I'm trying to parse out where the voices are coming from and which ones listen to.

Aimee

Yeah. Yeah. Whose voices are they? Are they yours? Do you know what yours is? And I think, you know, we established early on in the conversation. No, actually, and you know, this is one of those situations where like, as a parent, I would say this is a good place for you to take a healthy risk.

Rebecca

Yeah, it's almost like, because I'm nervous is probably the reason to go, like, don't even go.'cause you think it'll be fun. That's just gonna be a bonus if it happens. But go, because this is the. Working out of our souls. This is saying I want to have a courageous center, and the only way we can have a courageous center in our body is the same way you work out the regular muscles. You gotta use'em. Be willing to be sore or even injured in the pursuit of something important.

Aimee

Right, right.

Rebecca

All right. Well this went to places we didn't expect. It's time to up. This very conversation is.

Aimee

I mean, I imagine that perhaps all sorts of thoughts are coming up for them with regards to their own experiences or. Experiences they've had, traveling, risks they've taken, or things that they've avoided with regards to traveling. If there's anything super juicy you wanna tell us, by all means send us an email or send us a message on Instagram. I am at Vibrance Nutrition. Rebecca, you are at.

Rebecca

Be seriously happy, and please remember folks that we love getting fan mail through the system, but we can't respond to you. So if you want us to answer you, it has to be by email or by Instagram.

Aimee

Thanks again for listening, folks. Until next time.

Speaker 2

We hope you enjoyed this episode of Banla. If you did, the best thing you can do is share it with another person, brave enough to move abroad. See you next time.