SHF Podcast, Episode 12, Body Magic with Mel Gutierrez

Katherine and Miriah are joined in this episode by Mel Gutierrez.  Mel is a yoga teacher, personal trainer, energy healer, author, and self proclaimed body witch. Mel works with her clients in New York City and online in a myriad of ways to bring them back to their inner strength and power. 

In this podcast, the hosts explore with Mel the journey of self-discovery and empowerment, focusing on the challenges individuals face when realizing their own power. Mel discuss the internal resistance that can arise even when clients have the tools to change, emphasizing that motivation isn’t always necessary to take action—sometimes, just starting is enough.

The conversation highlights the importance of creating a safe coaching environment where clients feel comfortable sharing their vulnerabilities. They stress the significance of open-ended questions to foster connection and understanding, especially in emotionally charged conversations. Personal boundaries and self-care are also emphasized as essential for maintaining healthy relationships.

The episode concludes with the guest sharing resources, including a free course that combines practical and magical tools for personal growth. Ultimately, the discussion encourages listeners to embrace their power and resilience through body movement and connection, reminding them that transformation is possible.

Find out more about Mel and her offerings at: 
https://melgutierrez.com/ 

Transcript

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​Welcome to the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I'm Katherine Finley with Sovereign Heart Coaching and I'm here with my co host Miriah Feehery of Whole Being Counseling. We recognize that we're living through an intense time on our planet. There seems to be more polarization and division and less connected communication than ever before. We are here to change that. We intention to hold conversations in a container of love and authenticity. We believe that when humans come together from a heart centered place, we can not only understand one another, but we can get creative together, solving problems we couldn't solve alone. It's time to reimagine and rebirth a new world in which everyone's authentic voice is included in the harmonic orchestra of human voices, to create a world that works for all of us. Thank you for being part of this conversation, we're excited to have you. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Sovereign Heart Frequency podcast. We are super excited for today's guest. We have Mel Gutierrez with us today. And Mel's a yoga teacher, personal trainer, energy healer, author, and self proclaimed body witch. Mel works with her clients in New York City and online in a myriad of ways to bring them back to their inner strength and power. And Mariah and I are really looking forward to delving in with her about how she works consciously with the body, with her clients, to create changes in the nervous system and really help clients live the life they desire. So welcome, Mel. So delighted to have you. Is there anything else you'd like to add to tell our listeners more about you? Thank you. And thank you for saying my last name so beautifully. That is so nice. it is something, not to be taken for granted. I really appreciate it. Yeah, yes. What I would like people to know is that I'm also I'm very excited about this. I'm also in dominatrix school, starting in October, and being able to marry what I've already done with human bodies, and now start to lean into the realm of conscious kink. and sexual healing, and we can cue the Marvin Gaye here because it's very appropriate it's gonna be also a big part of my work going forward in the future, but I think in the trend of self development in general, Like alternative healing and coaching work. I think it's going to be a big thing. So I just wanted to drop that in there and mention it. That's awesome. We're big fans of Kassia Urbaniak. We've done her mistress group for a season. And so love that you're on that path of female empowerment with all the other amazing things you have on your repertoire and your toolbox. Thank you. And Cassia, God, that was a great book. She's amazing. So I'm very grateful to the brave and out dominatrix sex workers who talk about the power that can be evident in those exchanges and even to heal. So yeah, I'm excited about it too. Oh, great. We're excited to talk to you more about that. And maybe for our listeners sharing. So you began as a yoga teacher and personal trainer and then kind of moved into coaching. Tell us what created that shift. What were you seeing in your clients as far as what they needed that led you into coaching? I Do love that question because now I get to use the language that has been developed over time in a repertoire of a body of work and experience that the body is the first temple. It's the first place we manifest. And that's really sexy right now because people are like, yeah, manifestation work, right? Like that's cool. And it's exciting. But the truth is we're always manifesting at every level. And what I noticed really early on when I was teaching yoga, Was, okay, there's more here to the human, just on a, on a physical level, purely physical level, if we can try to encapsulate things that way, or compartmentalize, just for, for the sake of the concept, on a purely physical level, I need more tools than what yoga can give me, because yoga, if you drink the Kool Aid, yoga's all you need. Don't drink the Kool Aid. That's not true. No one thing can ever provide everything you as a human being in your physical experience really needs to be integrated and hold. So once I had deprogrammed from that and was like, I'm not the devil because I don't want to just teach yoga, I can then do personal training. And it started to come together, not just because of the physical demands that, oh, this is how I can help people find a more efficient path to healing the physical stuff in their bodies. State change became evident. The way we take for granted in yoga. And I've always loved first, like strength training. So it wasn't, I could bring elements of it to my clients, but it was when I felt that you know, I'm really kind of leaning into this in a way that I would feel more comfortable legally having the scholarship. But I always knew that the gym was the place for me to safely have catharsis when I'm angry. I have a, a real anger and aggression. It could be an issue, but I don't have that issue because I have the gym. You know, I have my body and I started to see it in my clients and then I started to see, fear arise in different people around exploring their bodies, either in yoga, or embracing their power and strength training. And that very easily opened the doors, as you can both imagine, to like, okay, I am now seeing your entire childhoods as we go through this process together. Let's work on it. Let's, let's bring it out. It'll show up anywhere, right? The gym, the, the dance floor. Your living room. Yes! Oh my god. Totally. Well, and I'm, I'm curious about, cause I, in my work, and maybe Mariah would say the same thing. The, the route of accessing the body has been like, let's say someone's coming in with anger about something and then we go into the body and explore it. And I'm interested in if you can kind of go the opposite direction, like just start developing strength in the body, and then you start to feel stronger in your life. without bringing in a trigger that helped that had you not feeling strong, right? Does it, did you find that with your clients? I found that to be one of the most gratifying and it still is one of the most gratifying experiences to, and, and now in the coaching right now that I can call myself that because I've done the certs for that and this is the work I've chosen to do. You can teach resilience as a skill. We do that in embodiment work. I have a lot of grit within me as a human being and willingness to fight for myself. And I teach that often in embodiment work that I reference as predator work. Finding the predator within. But even if we don't go there, on the most basic level, when people who are not familiar, so especially women, although that is quickly changing, thankfully, but when women in my presence would start to feel their presence. Because there is no real strength training without creating another state change. Testosterone dopamine, opioids. When you're strength training, you go into a more hyperadrenalized state, depending on the level of your training and your program demands. That's fucking awesome. It's so good for most of us. Not everybody is guaranteed to have a great experience in that. Not everybody likes the feeling, but it's so great to feel like a super power come forward or like, I'll see people and especially women who are in their 70s who have never trained this way and they start to feel it and they're like, Oh, that's awesome. I'm gonna go out and punch somebody in the face. And I'm like, good for you. Don't with great power comes great responsibility to see them feel themselves in this whole new way because of the process. And yeah, I'm talking about neuromodulators and a catecholamine cascade that can be really You know, looked at granularly in the biological realm, but it's also putting people through stressful scenarios that they can prove to themselves over and over. I can't. I didn't know. That's the definition of resilience. How do you wield the, the state change that is induced in, training with people? You know, weight, weight training or endurance training to help people with their emotional stories, the trauma and narratives that they bring in that are limiting them. So to make sure I'm hearing that correctly, like how, how do we choose that sometimes? Like, how do we know when that's where to go versus maybe a yoga experience where we go into a different exploration and call up different energies. That's kind of how I hear that. I want to make sure I'm hearing correctly. Yeah, when you find someone experiencing that that cascade of neurochemicals that comes from training how do you as a coach help people channel that into not just their physical development, but their emotional, spiritual, psychological development? That I see. Thank you for clarifying that. It has to be, in my experience, explicit. Like that right there when you're feeling that like when somebody is like, I did it. I make sure that they pause and Reflect in the moment. I had that experience today with somebody one of my clients who I am I just head over heels every time we get to do something and there's resistance We cover all the things we do in normal therapies, like there's resistance to embodying a new idea of strength. There's the fear. There's the self doubt. There's the, who am I? Is this really for me? Am I too old? But I'm a woman. You gotta get all the bullshit. You gotta get through the layers of bullshit. And then, when I saw her today accomplish something in her 70s that we've been working on for a long time. She can actually get up and off the floor without her own hands now to help her. That's huge! That's fucking huge. And so I go, stop, let's celebrate. What did you do right now? And it's pausing to make a space for the, the quote unquote therapy coaching part of it, where it's not like you just don't run through it because people can do things and not even realize their greatness. So much of my own therapeutic process is facilitated by my coaches mirroring towards me. Like, how are you telling that story? Do you see how well you did? You know, that stuff that we're familiar with. And it's so easy. It's dumb easy when you're doing it in people's bodies, because you're like, you can't deny it. You just did the thing that you used to cry and scream at me about that. I wanted us to try. Now you're doing it like a fucking champ, like you didn't even have to try. That deserves celebration, acknowledgement. And I dig in a little hard on those moments because it's not just rah rah, you're amazing. It's now stop acting like you are not in charge of your experience. Stop acting like you don't have power to embrace, to then influence how you want to be not only in your body, but in the world. Yeah, yeah. So powerful. And look, it's a filter. Some people are really into it. Because I don't let people get away with Like, like people can cry, people can have all that, all that is fair, and the rage and the pain that comes up in working with the body, and I can be sensitive to it, as long as you move forward. There's no point, otherwise you're just whining, and we're stuck, and that's what therapy is for. Go talk about it for 50 hours. We have to create change here. That's what coaching is. And Neither one is better than the other. I think that's why we're seeing the trending of therapy and embodiment coaching being this like stellar accelerated experience for people. That's how I like things to go. Resolving the past takes a lot of exploration. It's appropriate, but when you're working in your body, you can cry and squat at the same fucking time. And I have said it, and I, I have fans most of the time from that, and then I have some people who are like, yeah, that's not for me, and that's totally okay too, but when we're talking about that, power, empowerment, no, you don't get to pretend anymore that you can't. You're not a little bitch. Stop pretending you're a little bitch. Be in your power. And that's appropriate for the gym. It's not always appropriate for like everywhere else, by the way. Yeah, you don't hear too many therapists saying that. I've never personally called anyone a little bitch. Like who, what? You know, and that is why the gym environment. I'm glad you are though, if that's what they want, right? If that's what they need. You know, there's a, there's there's different environments like that is not a voice. That I would use in a yoga setting necessarily. Yeah, totally. Right. But when you're talking about, there's a certain amount of thickening of the skin that has to happen when you're in a gym environment anyways. Because so many people are challenged by, as that person looking at me, I don't want to get in the way. Oh, they're already taking the space. And you have to learn how to really, in what was typically a male dominated environment, in order to feel your power in there, you have to have somebody who's willing to say to you, I know you can do more. And sometimes I'll put on that exterior to, to trigger them. Because I'm like, are you pissed? Good. Let's go. Be pissed. And, and then it's safe to cathart. It's safe to express rage. It's safe to, to high five because any good personal trainer will push you and then celebrate the fuck out of you when you've done something amazing for yourself. But you don't really get to do that in a lot of other environments with the same fire. That's why I'm so particularly fond of it. And I'm hearing what you're doing is then helping the client create this new narrative, not just for the gem, but about themselves in general, which is immensely powerful. Yeah. And they can really feel it as true in that moment because they have just done something that has required strength and resilience and power. The integration. And you just mentioned that the catharsis of the anger or The release of disempowerment and moving more into empowerment. And I'm curious if you have any stories from your personal life or from clients of, how that really transformed them in other areas of their life outside of the gym. Yes, I, the Personal experiences in my life are numerous. I think that that is why people gravitate to different embodiment practices. And I like to have a variety and, and I really want people to hear that. I would never just talk to anyone like that without knowing them well. And like, you know, doing all the work to make sure they're safe, but what the strength training does for us and what I think. The reason there's such a focus on it in myself and in my life and with my clients is it's still new. It was once a place that was very much monopolized by a certain kind of dude. Not even all dudes were entitled to feel that strength and power, right? But now, that's opening. And when I see, for example, the woman who I was speaking of earlier, seeing her get up and off the ground without her hands. I have a couple of older women who are doing that and amazed. That they can actually continue to get stronger as they age. Versus, that is already undoing a lot of damaging beliefs around aging well, and what does it mean as a woman, and am I invisible now, or am I weak forever, and do I just like dry up into dust slowly, and I'm like, no, that's such trash, we're not gonna let you have to deal with that. But then they also say, I was the only grandmother. getting up and off the ground with my grandkids in a special class, music class I got to attend. That. is now the power that's already showing up, right? Or, oh, I could help my husband who's older than me because a certain contingent of the population, if I'm training older women, their husbands are older. And so they can help pick him up out of a chair. Like women, as we age in this society have different demands than we once did. And so it's showing up their physical power is showing up as immediate need. To, to help others, which is like where women, as you know, will typically apply those skills first, but then they can defend themselves. I get the stories of like, the doctor didn't, I didn't feel right about it, what that doctor said to me. So I saw another one or a third one till I got it right. Cause I know what feels good in my body now, you see. So it's like that kind of power, or when one of my 80 year old clients is like, I told that guy in the subway, Hey, watch where you're going. And I felt like we did at the gym. That's like, what? Like, are you kidding me? That's amazing. It gives me chills thinking about it. Right. So that's, that's a very particular segment of the population reacting to a very particular embodiment experience. There's a lot more out there, but in that regard, that's, just some of the stuff that really fires me up. I love that. And as you're speaking, I'm feeling like the ripple effect of that when the people that are around your clients seeing, Oh, that's possible. That could be possible for me. I have a dear friend and that I met in Costa Rica and she had six babies, all natural home births and being around her and. just who she is. I mean, I, I cognitively knew about, the body can do a natural home birth, but I didn't actually feel it living in this culture that, that that was something my body did not feel like that was something safe to do. And now I, my body knows it, my body knows that that's absolutely possible. And it's just from, from being in her space and knowing her story. And so The ripples of that when we're around someone who's embodied in this different way, our body then picks up on that and resonates with that. And there's more possibility available for all of us. I, I think that is true. A, I want to shout out women who can do that. You know, obviously that's not always available for everyone, but also for keeping that sacred truth and for the orgasmic birth reclamation revolution that's coming back. Woo. Give birth to your babies with an orgasm ladies. That's amazing. Like that's incredible. And I didn't know that was a thing, right? So what you just said, I had no idea, but. I have had so much blessed exposure to different people and in terms of my personal experiences, I came from a really abusive and chaotic home life. There was terrible socioeconomic struggle there. I'm Mexican and Puerto Rican and I grew up in a really poor town in Albuquerque for a very formative period of my life, as well as New York City and having my family be from here originally. Learning how to navigate those environments are necessary, and I'm grateful that I did, but when the mechanisms that I learned to navigate those environments could no longer be applied to the ones that I did want to then be in, but they were, I was completely destructive. I didn't know how to people. Because I was in a defense, a constant hyper defensive mode, and it wasn't until I was around other people that I could recognize the, you know, way Catherine just said like I in their embodiment like, how come you can be relaxed when that happens but I'm like, going into a rage? Or why am I so triggered? And that's just the beginning. It's like, oh, there's an option? Yeah, totally. Yeah. And so when you're in in this new role, embodied and, and training and all these embodiment practices that you can then help other people connect with their bodies. Are you, are you finding the connection between strengthening and, or yogic practices or whatever else is in your toolbox and the ability to show up embodied and, Empowered in interpersonal relationships. And do you have any anecdotes of that? Yes, I don't think I would be referencing my background the way I just did. Speaking from that scar, safely, and not still a wound that still drives me. It's phenomenal how embodiment, language that we take for granted now, and only some of us take for granted. It's not like the whole of the United States knows embodiment in this great way, right? Like, keep it to the Instagram. I understand that that's where we are, but we're gonna normalize it. Bye. That version of me didn't know another way to be. And so that also meant how do I receive information not only from any environment and I'm stuck in a certain lens. So, okay, that's happening. And then I got to start changing the lens or change how my body receives information, which was also incredibly, there was a lot of resistance to that too, because you're like, you change this hard period. Once you get used to that, you're like, I'm okay. But my interpersonal relationships. Now, because of all the work I've done in yoga, getting to know myself, getting to explore in a slow, systematic way, what is my energy doing, how does my spirit occupy this vessel when I make a shape, and doing that. Doing the dance work. I know where I said earlier, like the dance floor doing, who am I in dance? Can I express these parts of myself? Can I have safe place for catharsis? Kickboxing is a primary practice for me because it keeps that animal that was primed, For violence and confrontation, calm. Because it's not fair to ask me to just put that away forever. That was why I struggled so hard when I was in a new environment. Or with, or in a healthier relationship. Now I'm having healthier romantic relationships after leaving a 13 year long abusive marriage. There's an arc to the narrative because there has to be growth. It doesn't always look pretty but if I didn't have these embodiment tools I don't know where I would be. in a really frightening way. It'd be a statistic. And so what's one way that you're That your inner fighter, your inner self protector is able to be integrated in your life now, now that you know how to create a safe environment for yourself and she, or he or they, or whatever that part is, doesn't have the environmental requirements to be on guard all the time, but is still a part of you and still there and, and serves a purpose. How do you find integration and expression for that part? Is it like what you just said, the kickboxing, or is there other ways? Yeah, I, I love that question because I think one of the things in my work that has come forward more recently is working with, type A people, or, you know people who don't, numb out with productivity, or people who have anger issues, those kind of things, and what I really want to drop here for anybody who's listening because this, this has been a pain point for myself, you know that it's not working, and you're and you're told, let's bring you soft power, let's help you react differently and that is true and good. And we should try to move towards that. It does a disservice though, to ignore the fact that because of a life you've lived specifically talking from my own experience, and I know I'm not alone in this, I had primed an animal within me. It was basically like. A top tier cocaine sniffing canine for the NYPD. When you retire an animal like that, you have to give it activity and exercise to run out its energy and to let it feel its power. It's not kind to go, Well, I'm not that anymore. Don't get angry. Don't be angry ever again. No, you have an animal in you that's primed and kickboxing is a safe place for me. I, I imagine. Who am I punching in the face? There's a lot of political figures these days that I could do that with. There's a lot of, what's self doubt? I don't like to bring a lot of violence to parts of myself, but if there's pain within me or grief that I just want to be done with, if there's, you know, that kind of energetic work, and this is where the witchcraft, the body magic comes in. those visualizations. And then I, and I let it out. I'm not pretending that I'm not practicing while kickboxing to just burn calories. You are in a martial arts moment. And a lot of what I had moments with clients when we do kickboxing and they go, I don't know if it's working for me. I don't really feel it. And I'm like, well, who are you punching? And they're like, Oh, I'm like, you're supposed, you are literally shadow boxing. You're preparing for a fight. Bring that energy or it's a dissonance. What's, what's the fucking point? But then you give yourself a safe place for catharsis, you get to run the animal around, and then it's calmer when you feel someone trigger you and you do yourself talk and you go, Oh, let me breathe. Oh, this is not a person who's actually threatening me. And then the animal inside can go, Oh, okay, right, right, right, later. Later, because that's going to be a part of you forever. And it's not wrong. It's not wrong in you. It is. I love Mariah's language, the protector that is there for a reason, but it's, we're still learning how to I think, become whole in that way. And that's my approach to it. Absolutely. And this might bring in some of the dominatrix work you're learning about, but I feel like what you're saying is. There's the owning that we have power and there might be a big group of women that don't even realize that yet right, it's finding it. Then there's those. Women that feel like their power is dangerous or could hurt people or the anger is bad And it's owning it either way And then it's not until we really own it that we have this immense power within us Can we make choices about how to wield it? And that's, you know, Kasi Arbaniak's book is so much about that. And I don't know if there's any more you want to say about your training because I think that's, it's a new, it's in the zeitgeist in a way and it, and it's new for a lot of people like this dominatrix training, like what it's teaching about our inner power and what to do with it. Yes. So I think exactly what you just said, Catherine, about. Owning the power. It's like that moment when I go, Hey, we're going to celebrate. Stop acting like you're not in charge because it's, it's breaking through the illusion. We all come with stories and some mantra. I use it myself. My, my clients is the stories we tell ourselves are the most important ones. That is true, and it takes an enormous amount of self motivated and driven work to do those practices, to wake up every day. I like to say, go to the mirror and look in the mirror, but now I'm like, I wake up and the first thoughts that are in my head, I'm like, oh, let me set my mental space up for thoughts that I want. That doesn't mean that I'm pretending I don't have circumstances that are beyond my control that I may need to tackle, but I get to decide what energy I do that with. And the training helps quite a bit. And then there's these moments in your body, and especially with your sexuality, when you have to, if you want to, if you want to do the work to embrace power, and move out of trauma, and move into your power, and just move forward in the world in general, you have to look at yourself. You have to look within. And especially the places that scare you. And we're, that's not new work. That's been the work forever, everybody. You just gotta do it. You can find ways around it. And the dominatrix work in that is so clear. And for people who think dominatrix work is just sexual fantasy fulfillment. Or outfits. Yeah, sure, there's all of that, and that's legitimate too, because everything in human sexuality is legitimate. We're all feeling things that we're, we don't know enough about human sexuality really, like, to put parameters on it like that. But, it's, it's knowing yourself in the deepest way, and then getting to claim your power, to use Urbaniac's language, either as a submissive, because I am completely connected to my desires in that space, and I get to claim that, and ask my dom, This is what I want, or I'm the dom and I step in as the facilitator to help create that desire to be fulfilled for my subs. I've already had those experiences on a personal level, but that showed up in the gym really fast. For the women, it was doming them to keep them going, to create the model, Hey, look at this. And I'm a small woman. So it's easy when people see me do things that are like heavyweight lifting, they're like, Oh, I could do that. And I'm like, yeah. And working with men, and I'm using very large swaths of cisgendered heteronormative language here to describe my experiences. Working with men is different, but the dom energy there is very clear. And it's fun. It's like, it's great. Everybody's moving to a better, a better self in this work. So, right. And that's, that's what they're asking you for that help to create the container to push them. Cause we all kind of need to be pushed out of our stuck stories and our overly comfortable, immobility. And and so you get to, there's a, Consensus, a mutuality to that arrangement that works for everybody. Absolutely. My coaches dom me. That's the language I use. They're the only people who I really give sentient space to trust and go, I'm going to tantrum. And then they have to go, is that really true? And that's, that's an agreement. That's a sacred agreement you make with your therapist or your coach or whomever you do that work with your healer to reflect towards you, the things you have resistance around. And then I think the only person, other person I really give that dumb status to in my physical body and embodiment is my chiro. My chiropractor is a big, strong man who I trust. And I lie on that table and if he needs to keep me in performance mode, I have to distrust him, you know, and I give up my body as much as possible. Like I relax. I think about it at the dentist, like when they do the novocaine, I'm like, okay, body breathe, relax. These are beams of light entering your mouth and they're going to heal, you know, like whatever the shit is. But at the end of the day, I have to suspend that fight or flight response to get to another state of consciousness to allow. Work to be done that could feel triggering. Beautiful. Yeah. And, and share with us more about the, the witchy part. So you are a body which, and what does that mean? How do you bring magic in to this work that you do? The truth is, for me there is no separating it. That's just marketing. People don't want to hear that the second you start working with your body and manipulating your nervous system, you are starting to manipulate your sense of reality. So, we all, we know in embodiment very clearly that the state of your nervous system is going to at the very least influence how you register reality. Quote unquote reality. So creating a state change consciously in your mind and in your body is unavoidable. You will also start to confront what gets in the way of a fluid state change or what blocks a particular state of being. And that's when you see things come up like, in different, any, any class. It doesn't matter if it's Pilates, it could be anything. You work with the body enough, you start to see people confront things within themselves. That's magic. A state change is magic. Becoming somebody else because you want to create a different feeling for yourself and have a different experience of reality is magic. Manifesting something seemingly from nothing. is magic, right? Like that's the language we use. That's every day. That's every day. Now I'm in a place where I get the privilege of using that explicitly, so I don't have to edit it the same way. And then you get the right people. But if I also teach body stuff and then say, Hey, guess what? We can create a ceremony. With intention, beginning and middle of an end. And you can use these tools with the light of the full moon, with your future and past selves. You can do all kinds of shit. You want to call in the best lover. You don't got to wait for a person. It's the universe. The next time you self pleasure call in masculine and feminine forces to fulfill your desires. Then people are like the fuck, really? That's a fucking option. And I'm like, yeah, install the upgrade. That's it. It's that easy. And then people are like, and then, and then really amazing things happen. I love it. I love it. It really feels like you work on all the levels, right? the magic in the body, how we really can shift our body in these huge ways. And then how that impacts the rest of our life. And then we can. intention. Like our energy is also a magic maker, right? And yeah, you're showing the people that come into your sphere, these possibilities. Absolutely. And they see it for themselves and then they're like, oh shit, it's real. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, welcome. It's real. And then it's like, oh shit, now what? Now I know about the being. Now what? Now what do I want to create? Now what? How do I deal with that? Yeah. Do you have any stories about people who have really struggled with facing that realization that I am powerful and what that looks like? I have stories of regret as a coach And this is like, I know that not every coach can help everyone. It's, but when you're driven that way, you have to recognize your own triggers around people. I'm not great at hearing the same story over and over and over. And I don't know how yet to kind of get people out of that. And that's not common also in my experience, but I know we've all probably have experienced in the coaching world, like You offer the tools, you offer the way forward, or you see people make the change but there's an internal resistance, for whatever reason, it's not to judge it, that doesn't allow them to fully embrace that. And I have had a few instances, like crying squat, right, that came from somewhere. And it came from my own experiences where it was like, I'm too sad to work out, and it's like, that is such, what? You're too fucking sad to work out? Get out of here. Now, listen, you can swing that pendulum way too hard. All right. So I want everybody to hear that with great power comes great responsibility, but that's not true. We have to be able to separate what feels overwhelming versus what I can actually accomplish. And some people may not be ready in my experience to have that brought to them and need other work before they can really embrace the change. But watching people who can struggle through, and then I'll be there through it with people. You really can't bring me anything that I'm going to shy away from as long as I see the fight within happening. And so that's the thing that we're really trying to inspire in people, I think, as embodiment coaches, is when do you fight for yourself? When do you fight for your desires? When do you fight for yourself? for a new story. Do you know how to fight? And some people are like, does it always have to be a fight? And I'm like, no, it doesn't always have to be a fight, but you have to have grit and power and resilience and motivation from somewhere. And, and that's also another challenge that I, I'm still working on trying to see how to get people through. I'm pretty goal oriented. And so if I want something, it's enough to like, all right, whatever I'll run through the fire. That's what I want. People believe they have to be motivated to make change. You don't, you just get up and do it. Now that sounds really easy. It's not. But you don't have to feel good. You don't have to want something the same every day. To switch up, getting into the space of remembering who the fuck you are and what you're fighting for. Who you want to be. And that, that's stuff that I see as struggles in the population and stuff that I don't. I'm like, is there a magical motivation coach that I can refer to because I need people like this to get it and move on. Not that simple folks, not that simple. Yeah, there is a, what would we call it, like a readiness factor. And I don't know how we would determine that with a particular person, but when someone's ready, they're ready. And I'm sure you have people that come to you that maybe weren't ready the 10 years before, but now they are, and that's why they found you. Right. Totally. And, and I don't know that we can create a readiness in someone or it's, they have it and then they find us, right? Yeah. I know. And I, I think about that a lot too, because I'm very, enthusiastic and some would even say pushy which is fair, which I do. I always tell my clients like I'm, I'm going to be pushy, but you're the boss. So I'll tell you what's possible because I'm operating from the perspective of what's possible for you. You're operating from on the perspective of what's possible for you, but we have different frameworks of experience. So we're going to bridge the gap that way. So I think what's helpful is when you really get close to somebody and when they get mad at you for pushing or they feel shy and go, Oh no, no, let's not move away from each other. Tell me what you're afraid of. Tell me, what did I say that made you angry right now? I welcomed it. Share with me so you can make a safer space for them to start moving through those little blocks, right? I think that's a way but I'm I also Desperately want and I know I'm not alone in this and I know that it is one of many branches For people to come forward to but for those who are listening to hear that Oh, I actually don't have to be motivated I actually don't have to be ready or I don't have to be ready perfect in a certain sense Perfection can get in the way, you know, all these things can get in the way like you don't have to, you can just start doing something and then it comes. I don't want to body which all day long, there are days I don't want to body which at all. And then I got to put on my body which playlist, and I dance and move and I put myself in the headspace because I have people relying on me for help. And then the rents got to get paid you know like we all have this stuff. How do you switch it up to get to that, whatever the goal is. Yeah, I love those little tips of put on your playlist or, you know, find some way to hype yourself sometimes. I have my little hacks when I don't want to clean my house of, you know, I call a friend or put on some music or drink some caffeine. Yeah, exactly. Like what's the, what magical tools? How do I cast this spell to become a new me? Oh, totally. Totally. And you just mentioned something that piqued my interest about how you, you go into the resistance to help create a place of safety in the relationship. And I'm wondering if that's just something that you cultivate in your coaching dynamics, or if because of your practice doing that as a coach, you're able to bridge that into your personal life or in your life outside of your profession. Yes. And I think it is one of the. One of the more helpful tools in coaching, it's very easy to do this. Like I said, I think the gym environment's a really easy place for me to play up with a lot of tools that power BDSM stuff, like helping people in resistance, seeing all the stuff, the vulnerabilities. Because it's allowed. Do you know why? Because the gym is performance oriented. And I've had the privilege of working with athletes, when you're working with somebody who's so married to a goal, nothing gets in the way. That's not civilians. You're now bringing civilians into the gym environment, right? And we're like, Hey, this might be new stuff is going to come up and you don't know. When you've never done that, that moving towards a goal means you're going to encounter all the resistance of what stands in the way of that goal. And you don't, if you don't have somebody who's willing, in my opinion, to be in it with you, to be like, it's okay, we got this. It's okay. What are you feeling? It's okay. Now that's, that's the coaching aspect where you have to establish safety. Am I good with this person? Are they trustful of me? Is there trauma I need to be aware of that I don't want to trigger and replay, right? But, getting really cozy with somebody, when they start to like, show you all their shit, and they either want to push you away, or they do the the fawning, and it's like, what's that? What do you want me to know about you? I'm really interested. Tell me more. What do you want me to do with this information? and that's a little bit of the, I, I hear some of Cassie Urbaniak's work in that too, where the dog comes out and you put your focus on somebody. But that's just normal when you're trying to not let distance be created and someone's tantruming in your presence. You just stay focused. That's the predator coming out, but it can be a loving, compassionate predator. And this has been some of the best work that I can give to myself when I speak to myself and I go, what's up? Why are you tantruming? Okay. And I coach myself through it. I can do it with my partners. I can do it with family. Whoa. Once I could start bringing that to them and going, Yeah, I see you're yelling a lot. It's true. It's making the animal in me kind of reactive. Can we take a pause, because I want to hear everything you're saying and I don't want any distance between us as we process this. So let me just take a second, and that when you can. Bring that lens and just kind of make it clinical. And let's bring that down for a second. Cause I, I know what you're going through, but I just want to hear you. And I can't hear you when you're doing it like that, or I'm getting triggered. Let me take a break. Like that has been some of the most transformative work in my interpersonal relationships and with myself. How did that play out in your personal relationships when you were able to bring that presence? Thank you, Mariah, for grounding us in the reality that that is going to work really well a lot of the time, and then. Piss other people off a lot of the time because when you get more grounded and calm and someone starts throwing momentum at you Emotionally energetically to try to get you out of it and you're like, no, I'm gonna stay in the calm you become what we call like a super regulator in the nervous system world to talk I'm gonna regulate myself so strongly That no one's going to knock me off and when you get to that, you either force the room to go with you, the participants in this with you, or they get angry enough that you have to take some distance I think to then repair and come back if that's the choice. Be prepared folks, it's not always going to be a win. you might get some, go fuck yourself talking to me that way with your bullshit. And that's fair, and I go okay. Time to go, you know, because, because then what? Then it's a fight. And if you want to fight, then that's go have the fight. I sometimes want to fight. Sometimes I want to offload with some bullshit totally. But if that's a relationship I'm looking to preserve, I see how far I can test the waters and push on those boundaries with those tools. and then move away. You can only do so much if the other person doesn't have a lot of experience too. And that I don't think has to be judged. It just has to be scene as an observation, like, Oh, okay. There's some limitation to this. Experience. I really loved that question you said a minute ago of what do you want me to know about you right now, and that we could hold that in our awareness even if we're not asking that question out loud. If we're in a heated conversation with a family member, what's this family member wanting me to see? About them right now. What is so important to them that I see On that that just feels like a beautiful question that brings connection. I love that I like it, too i'm very glad for the teachings i've had to get to that point and I Think that as people are also moving into a really divided Political time where it's painful. It's disruptive to the interpersonal stuff and It would be great if we could be a little more skillful even when it's difficult to not move away from one another that way because I think that's what's going to continue to heal us, even with all the strife and the very big feelings that come up I'm very passionate about my personal belief system, and instead of bringing that in as the focus and I have family members who were diametrically opposed to my belief system and then, and I try to connect with them that way. You know, of like, what do you want me to know? How do you, how does that feel to you? Well, why are you so angry? And then inevitably those who are willing to talk, we'll share and their pain comes forward. And then it's a lot easier to soften and stay connected that way. And go, wow, thank you for telling me that. No wonder you're angry. Cause otherwise your anger doesn't make sense. It's like you're angry at people you don't know and all this weird shit you're hearing and it's like, oh, now it makes sense. Thank you. I understand you better. I feel closer to you. And I always say that. I feel closer to you now because you, you let me see what's underneath the anger. I can understand it better. Thank you. But I didn't say like, I, I agree. Right, right. You don't necessarily even have to agree. Sounds like in your world, preserving the connection is really a priority and you're willing to do the hard work of grounding your own nervous system and reining in your fighter parts to hold it until you get to the kickboxing gym and maybe not come out in this interpersonal moment, which is so resourcing and, empowering to know that you have that choice And because you're taking care of the animal body, the protector part, and giving it that expression, it's willing to let you steer the ship in these seemingly threatening interpersonal moments. Yeah, that's hard work and not everyone's up for it, but it can really create more connection in one's life, but it's, it takes effort and not everybody is motivated or has the skills or interest or the stamina to put forth that much effort to maintain difficult relationships. But that's, I guess why we're all doing this work, right. To help people build that inner strength and self mastery To just bring that resilience to the challenging times we're all faced with right now. Yes. I, and I agree. I think everything you said is perfect for that. This time, I think most people aren't doing the work, quote unquote, to have relationships like these because they don't even know it's possible. I didn't know it was possible until I was exposed, like Catherine said earlier. So I want for people to know that there's more, and you can be connected, and it doesn't take sacrificing your own truth. I have very strong boundaries. And, and part of the way the animal within me gets to rest is she gets very specific parameters. That I'm like, if those buttons get touched, or if there are certain lines that are crossed, it's all you, babe, come out, you get to cut him up, you get to do whatever you have to do. So everybody's entitled to their personal safety and their truth and their boundaries. It's just that I don't think people realize there are a lot of steps normally before you have to go there, even if you're just uncomfortable in a conversation and discomfort is not something that we are all regulated towards, which is why working in the body is so important, as you know, because you can regulate around discomfort. Great benefits. So in the end, move your bodies. That's what it's about. Done Well Mel, I feel like we could talk to you all day, but we're running out of time with you. Is there anything, talk to you ladies all day long, this is wonderful. Is there anything else you wanna share about your listeners and certainly including where to find you, how to work with you? Anything you've got going on? The the Instagram handle, which is where everybody goes, is the BO at the Body Witch. I have a YouTube channel, but I have a free course that I've created. It's five, very short videos, five to 10 minutes with some workbook, journaling prompts that help people utilize some of the tools we've covered in this conversation. And, and that's a really good starting place that you can revisit. over and over and I do get to share a little bit more about my own personal background in coming forward out of trauma and stepping into power. And I like that we get to use magical as well as practical tools now. The world's a more exciting place when it's magical, isn't it? Totally. Absolutely. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing yourself with us and I encourage everyone to check out your work and if they're called to do this really powerful work with you and we're so appreciative having you on. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful. All right, everybody. See you next time.​Make sure you subscribe, like and share the video for more content!