SHF Podcast, Episode 13, Answering the Call, with Sky Lantz-Wagner

In this episode, Miriah Feehery and Katherine Finley are joined by Miriah’s brother, Sky Lantz-Wagner.  Sky has an impressive resume of higher education degrees, extensive world travel and language acquisition, but what is most noteworthy and impressive to our hosts is Sky’s exemplary role as big brother to Miriah. Sky and Miriah made it through the eye of the needle in a time of disastrous division in all types of relationships, especially families, the past 5 years, and live to share their inspiring reflection of how they chose connection.

Sky also shares about the Mankind Project and the profound effect it’s had on his life.  Together, the hosts and Sky explore the transformative power of vulnerability, empathy, and connection in relationships. Sky shares personal insights on the importance of acknowledging and processing emotions rather than relying on platitudes to brush over discomfort. Through heartfelt conversation, Miriah and Sky highlight how deeper emotional understanding has strengthened their sibling bond, despite differences in opinions and values. The hosts emphasize that true connection requires meeting others where they are and creating safe spaces for open dialogue.

This episode serves as a powerful reminder that by fostering understanding and compassion, we can create a world where relationships thrive amidst differences.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I'm Katherine Finley with Sovereign Heart Coaching and I'm here with my co host Miriah Feehery of Whole Being Counseling. We recognize that we're living through an intense time on our planet. There seems to be more polarization and division and less connected communication than ever before. We are here to change that. We intention to hold conversations in a container of love and authenticity. We believe that when humans come together from a heart centered place, we can not only understand one another, but we can get creative together, solving problems we couldn't solve alone. It's time to reimagine and rebirth a new world in which everyone's authentic voice is included in the harmonic orchestra of human voices, to create a world that works for all of us. Thank you for being part of this conversation, we're excited to have you. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to Sovereign Heart Frequency podcast, episode 14. And we are So excited to have our special guest on today, who just happens to be my brother, Sky Lantz- Wagner, and Sky is currently employed at University of Dayton. he has a PhD in educational leadership, but he's not really here to talk as much about that as he is about his involvement with the mankind project. And how. That has, impacted his life and his community and the, the wisdom about that, that he wants to share with our audience. So welcome Skye. Thanks for saying yes. And yeah, what would you like us to know about, how the Mankind Project is an asset in your life and in your community? Yeah, thanks so much, Miriah and Katherine. It's really wonderful to be here. On the sovereign heart frequency podcast. And yes, Miriah, like you said, really excited to share a bit about the mankind project and how it has affected my life and the work that I do here in the community. So the mankind project is an organization that is dedicated to building and supporting emotionally mature. Compassionate role models that our communities so desperately need. And I want to talk about both of those parts building and supporting for a bit. The mankind project offers a variety of trainings, more and more of them are shifting online since COVID. And so men who are interested in exploring the world of authenticity and especially emotional honesty can connect with other men, virtually. At different levels of experience and vocabulary and, supporting. Is more in circles and men's groups, like the one that I sit in here in Dayton, Ohio, and there are other mankind project affiliated circles all around the country. So I'm going to talk a little bit about one example of training and then talk about. the group that I sit in and I think mankind projects was founded over 30 years ago. Um, really primarily focused on an in person training called the new warrior training adventure or the NWTA. And this is structured a lot like the hero's journey of myth. And, so very Joseph Campbell, you know, very Carl Jung, where there is a call to adventure. And in my life, this was when I was. Going through a divorce and didn't have the tools that I needed to navigate some of those challenges, all of those challenges, actually. But I knew I needed something. I knew that something was missing. And for me, this was the call to the adventure. And I think for most men who find the mankind project. There is that sense of awareness that something's missing in my life. I need something more to help me get through a tough time, or I just feel like being In an authentic way. And so that is kind of the call. And then the rest of the hero's journey, the next two parts are, are the descent, which is, as you know, the separation from the known world, and the forces that can pull, a man or a woman down into places unknown. And at the bottom of that descent is an ordeal where the individual, in this case, the men who go on this retreat really have to come face to face with With truth with emotional truth. Many men do this for the first time on this retreat. Uh, that was certainly true for me. And, in that facing the truth and really expressing a heart's desire, feeling real feelings for the first time, there's just. There's a lot that comes out of that space. It's very powerful. Um, and that, and that is also kind of represented in the ordeal, which is, it requires accessing that inner strength, cutting through the messages that I think society imposes on so many men today. Messages that say, I am not enough, that say, I can't be myself, that I have to feel only this feeling, or I have to behave like this when I'm with my friends. Uh, and to really kill those messages that, that are limiting and just somewhat, maybe even toxic and to write a new script at the end of this ordeal, you know, to write a script that says I am enough as a man in the world. I am strong. I have feelings. I am a gift to the world with my unique strengths. That is it. For many men, also true for me, a dramatic shift from the old messages. And so those two pieces, the descent and the ordeal, are kind of the heart of this new warrior training adventure. Then there is the re entry, which is beyond the men's retreat weekend, and it involves integration of those teachings, of that new vocabulary, and kind of the start of a new a better way of being. In the community and in the world and in relationships. And so that's, that's a bit about the new warrior training adventure. And, the building kind of emotionally mature compassionate men. I'm really aware of how it's giving men a right of passage, to go through this warrior weekend, which is so missing in our culture. It feels like it's set up that way to be a real ritual. that really takes you somewhere different by the end. Have you found that to be true? Yes, Katherine. Thanks for the question. It is a ritual with all of the elements of traditional rituals. There are elders there who bless the effort. There are allies there who can guide the journey. there are witnesses. There is no kind of painful scarring that might be a part of some of more maybe tribal rituals, but it is very much intended to be that. And I loved that so much, you know, the, the sacred elements that are very intentionally placed throughout the weekend, um, that really let men know that they're part of something deeper and more tribal, more primitive, and, um, more fundamental, I think, to kind of what, you the human experience has been for most of, most of human history, you know, really honoring the earth, honoring the ancestors. And that is certainly a part of it. And I've really gotten a lot from that. And these days I am aspiring to be, an elder and an ancestor and the best one that I can be down the road. I love that. And I know many rites of passages in indigenous cultures were. Boys with men, right, or men with men, and so something feels really important about that piece. I told you before we hit record that my husband did the, the warrior journey and in him sharing it with me afterwards. It had a huge impact on him. But, as I was hearing about it, it was very much like women would do it differently, right? But it felt really important the way it was done. I think we're missing that in our society, men growing with men and men having other men to lean on and, to feel safe with. And so it's building that kind of circle. When I think about the rituals that still exist in society, I would say many of them are pseudo rituals where there are elements of, of more kind of cultural, indigenous rituals. And, you know, thinking about like a fraternity on a college campus where it is young men initiating younger men. And there is an absence of elders in that space and the absence of ability to bless the journey in a healthy way. And, yes, even, even something like, a college graduation where there's, you know, there are elders there and there's a transition, but it's still, you know, there's, there's not that piece of accountability. Necessarily. And, so something you're, I think you're right on Katherine, that having initiated men connect with young uninitiated men, is, is so critical to a healthy society. Mm-Hmm. And so when did you enter Mankind project and go through this first experience? How long ago was that? I entered the Mankind Project in 2016 and did the New Warrior Training Adventure and found a support group, an integration group shortly after, immediately after actually, because what came up for me was so important to continue working on. I was 36 when I did the Warrior Weekend and it was the first time I had, had felt some of the feelings. I, I had pushed anger and sadness down very deep in, in my being. And when I started feeling those feelings, I just, I needed to feel them more and I needed to connect with them more. And so, it's a good segue into the next part, the kind of supporting men initiative of the mankind project in these men's groups that exist all over the country and actually all over the world. And Originally, the groups were specifically designed for men who did the Warrior Weekend and, like me, wanted to continue that work and make sense of what came up and have initiated men who could kind of guide and support and facilitate. These days, the, um, Men's circles that are supported by the mankind project are becoming less for initiated men, newly initiated men who might be seeking support of more experienced, initiated men, and more of just a resource in the community. There is just, I think, especially since COVID when. There was kind of this collective hero's journey of everybody going into the, the descent and the ordeal, whether they were ready for that or not, there was just kind of this connection to a deeper sense, a deeper self. And I think just now, in the past few years, we are collectively dealing with, with that and trying to make sense of that as we're, you know, now kind of fully back into the world. And so that's been true here in Dayton. We have gone from. And this integration group format to just more of an open men's group format, where the need for emotional vocabulary is greater. The perceived need for models of healthy masculinity is greater than it has been. And so men are coming to our circle just in some cases, they know that they didn't have, a good model for emotional intelligence at home. You know, they didn't grow up with a father who was in touch with his feelings and they're just exploring. They, they want to know what that looks like. other men come with maybe some, some deeper trauma and are looking for healing. And in those cases, initiated men have. a certain amount of training and a certain amount of experience with facilitation. And so the, the eye groups are very process oriented where, you know, we can take a man back in time, maybe similar to what would happen in a therapy session. I know both of you might do similar processes, but, you know, having a dialogue with someone who's not in the room, having a dialogue with. With a parent, maybe a man will hold energy for a mom or a dad or a boss and say what, what the message has been, and then try to rewrite that message. So yes, it's a really, the groups are very powerful. They can be very powerful, and at the end of every group, everyone checks out feeling more connected and grateful and peaceful. And it's, and it's beautiful. And I think that's a really strong connection to the mission of the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. What y'all are trying to do here, which is create heart centered dialogue and a deeper understanding through creative means and problem solving. And so yes, love that our missions are closely aligned. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm curious, you know, whatever you want to share, what. impact have you noticed in your life since starting Mankind Project? I mean, certainly within the groups, but maybe even more so in your life outside of these men's circles. What's changed? So much, and so, so positively. So I mentioned that I found the New Warrior Training and Venture when I was going through divorce, and the immediate benefit was that I started to have more vocabulary to talk to my ex wife, who just really wanted to tell her how I was feeling about the process. In the beginning, I didn't know how to do that. And by the end, I did know how to do that. And we worked through so many of the challenges that we had. And in the end, we decided to dissolve our marriage, but we did so with a much greater sense of, of compassion for the other, knowing that We had both done our individual work and our collective work, and that our decision to separate was after we had turned over every stone that we, we saw to turn over. So that was kind of the immediate benefit. And, she and I are, are really wonderful friends and co parents today, I think in large part due to that experience and, and me wanting to show up in a way that honored her and her wants in a partner. And since then, it's shown up in, in the workplace. I. Manage a small team at the university of Dayton. And, I have emotional toolbox that I can use in the workplace with my direct report, I will use a lot of the mankind project structures. In the workplace. So when I have my weekly one on one with my direct report, we start with a check in, which is just, how are you, how are you feeling, what's going on in your world before we dive into the task list of, you know, did you finish this on time, how's this project coming along and that's been really positive in our work relationship. And I know I've gotten some feedback from him about how. Supported he has felt. And so that feels really good, as well. Yeah, it's very humanizing and sometimes in the workplace, you can just get so task oriented that we forget that we're humans too. Yeah, great point, Miriah. It certainly, certainly can be and, nice to find, A more heart centered way of doing that. And do you notice any difference in the way that you show up for other people's sadness and anger now that you've done the work to integrate some of your own previously disowned sadness and anger? Yes, so much. I was actually talking to one of my best friends about this journey recently and the journey towards, Emotional intelligence and he and I have really never gotten in any fights and, um, we've always been so close, just our energies are so well matched and looking back at our friendship over the years, you know, he made the comment that he always felt like he could trust me except when he was going through a breakup. And I made a comment to him that said, Oh, don't worry about it. It'll be fine. And this was a reflection of not knowing what it meant to feel truly sad or what it meant to feel truly angry. And since then, you know, we've gone back and kind of revisited what was going on there and. Now I can talk to him in a way that is much, much different, that is, is qualitatively different in that, yes, I can hold space for him to be sad, uh, and hold space for him to be angry and not need to just kind of sweep things under the rug, which was my tendency in the past, and to use platitudes that, you know, everything will be okay, or, you know, Just push whatever is uncomfortable away and move forward. So, yeah, Miriah. That's a beautiful question. And certainly in, my ability to connect with my feelings has resulted in, the ability to connect with others around what they're feeling and what they're going through. Beautiful. Yeah, I mean, it's not wrong that he won't be fine later. He will, he'll be fine. And it's important for people to see that, like, you're going to be okay and everything. And empathy kind of requires just meeting people where they're at, right? And, and people need empathy first, before they can then be reminded that everything's going to be okay. Otherwise, it just feels invalidating, right? Right. Yeah. So true. Empathy has been another, I think I've always related well to people just with that the pathos piece had been missing, like the feelings piece. I'll have to come up with a term for the non feeling version of empathy. Cause that's what I had. how about pathological optimism? Yeah. Yeah. My, my therapist. in Atlanta, definitely called out my idealistic side. Part of me lived in this world where it was just perfect all the time and challenge and pain and sadness didn't come into that world until they did. And that's when things got really hard for me and where I benefited a lot from therapy and, and then later on from men's circles where, there was a, check on my idealism needing to infuse realism with, with that. Yeah, and I have a sister who's an awesome, awesome resource counselor and, understands those things a lot better than I did and that I do. Well, yeah, it's great to have these conversations with you and I, I don't personally relate to that experience your friend had. I, I remember you being a pretty supportive person. In my, rainbow of emotions. I mean, I do remember one time when I was really angry at Yosemite, when we were like 10 and 15 or 13 and seven or something, and you were like, you were like, Miriah. It's rude to be angry at our stepmom because she's disabled. And you were totally right in that moment. But, it was like, one of those moments where I had to stuff anger. And, I don't know that there was really a more appropriate way to deal with it. Because, you weren't wrong. You were right. Thanks for that memory about that in quite some time. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, You know, I wouldn't, reflect on your emotional life as being two dimensional or anything from my perspective, you know, but I'm glad that you, you dug into the, the abyss of where you had stuffed all of your disowned feelings. Cause I mean, to be honest, I only ever saw you cry like once in my entire life. And I remember that was really impactful to me to see you cry and it shouldn't be you know, I think you were 15 when I saw you crying. And I'm like, I guess brothers and sisters may normally see each other cry more often than that. So, you know, there was obviously something being cut off or, or compartmentalized or stuffed down somewhere, but, it didn't seem to affect. how you related to me. So just sharing that with you. Thank you, Miriah. Yeah. And I think that age, you know, between 15 and 18, when there is developmentally a lot going on in young boys becoming men, you know, I think in, in more indigenous cultures, that was the time when the hero's journey would be facilitated. I think we go through life without that, so where there should be this separation from the comfort zone of the normal life, where all these things are coming up. We just guess, I just guessed what was going on internally and didn't know how to make sense of it. And, you know, thankfully it worked out more or less well until down the road. I needed better tools and, you know, the guessing didn't work as well as a full adult. So, you know, I think that's all to say that the timing of it matters. And I wish that I maybe would have had the warrior weekend. earlier in life, you know, between high school and college would have been great because that would have given me a more solid foundation to navigate relationships, especially. And instead you got a bar mitzvah with the rabbi who didn't know your name. That did happen. The rabbi called me Eve. But that's okay. Yeah. Twice, so. It was, uh, easy to forgive. It was sweet. And something to laugh about for the rest of our lives. We will, yes. Our uncle still brings that up from time to time, and we do laugh about it. That one, that didn't take long. So that's not a wound that I need to deal with. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but gosh, wouldn't it be wonderful if we had rites of passages that weren't just kind of superficial, you know, honorary rites of passages instead of the real nitty gritty, like rip you out of the arms of your mother, take you into the jungle and give you the real life skills that you need. I envision a world where that is more common and, that world. is a lot safer. Absolutely. Yeah. And I wanted to just speak a little bit about the alignment kind of with Mankind Project and Sovereign Heart Frequency. I know first word of your podcast is sovereign. And in the Mankind Project, we lean heavily on a book by Robert Moore. Douglas Gillette called King, Warrior, Magician, Lover, and, you know, both in the, the Warrior Weekend and in our circles, the archetypal energy is, is very strong, very present, and very, important, and, I love that we have this kind of king archetype in all of us, the king that represents compassion and generosity and blessings and vision. I, I just wanted to share that with y'all. I don't know if you know that book, but, um, talks about mature masculine archetypes, where, as I mentioned, the king or the sovereign represents those things, the, Warrior represents focus and service and boundaries and defending healthy boundaries. The magician represents healing, problem solving, intuition, and the lover represents connection and appreciation. So really these. components become a really important part of our rounds and our meetings. And one of the things that I really value about the book is that it also talks about the shadow archetypes and kind of what's in the way of us achieving those mature archetypal energies. So, you know, The shadow energy of the king is, to abandon or to abdicate responsibility or to have a vision that is not constructive. And, you know, you can imagine what the shadow of the warrior would look like where it's a much more violent approach as opposed to a, a service approach. And so, Yeah, I think those, those archetypal energies, just as we strive to kind of connecting to my story about, you know, friendship and having things in the way, you know, being able to talk about like, Oh, what is, what is that piece? You know, why is that? Why is there violence in my, in my warrior? And where did that come from? And I listened to the episode with Cheryl Connor about creating safe spaces. And that was a really powerful connection for me because that's what our circles are really designed for, you know, to create safe spaces where, we can look at the shadow and look at, you know, what's going on there. What are these unconscious messages, that come up and, you know, how can we support one another in, in kind of shifting the energy to one that is healthier. And so maybe we use some tools that might come up in, in counseling sessions, like using I statements, where that is a contrast from a you statement, where there's, you know, casting blame, like you never listened to me, as opposed to I feel angry when you don't hear what I say, or, you know, giving advice, something like, You have to stop eating such unhealthy food, you know, that's like, oh, well, maybe if I hold up the mirror It's actually I have to stop doing that. Otherwise, I wouldn't be so triggered So yeah, I don't know if that fits kind of with our discussion. I, I think it fits perfectly. I mean, you're really speaking to, when we, do our own inner work and learn to love ourselves more fully, and then we're able to love others more fully, then the world changes and we can learn to do that. And one on one coaching or therapy sessions. But I feel like there's so much power in the group process that Cheryl spoke about. And now you're speaking to, because when someone is being really vulnerable. In a group setting, usually we feel immediately safer to do the same. And that breeds connection rather than division. And we're certainly in a time where there's There's so many forces and energies seemingly wanting to divide us into good and bad or right and wrong. And it's these kinds of spaces that I feel like are the medicine for that. So much. And there was an example that came up recently in our group where politics came up in the circle and. it triggered some of the men so that the energy was escalating and the tension was escalating. And we leaned into the principles of the mankind project of just, you know, what is really under that tension, you know, okay, here we are. We recognize this level. let's look underneath. What I love about that particular example is that what's underneath is And that is something that we all share. You know, we all have feelings and they are all the same if we share that vocabulary. So finding out where those feelings come from. What was the message that is attached to those feelings? Like, this is making me angry because And then there's a message there. And from that place to say, does that message resonate with my authentic self? Or is that a message that I received from some external source? And if that's the case, if it is an external message, then can I rewrite that message so that it's more authentically mine? And maybe I still feel the same way, but it's not something I heard from my mom or dad or not something that I heard from the news. Or, you know, not something that even just kind of I picked up along the way, wherever that came from. So, yeah, that's really, I agree, Katherine, so much that the, there is power in that circle and maybe a bit different than in a therapy session. That's one on one, because there is that accountability piece there, there are witnesses to that process. And that has, you know, impact and that has, kind of an anchor, like, cause we can talk about that again in our next circle. Right. And it sounds like you all stayed connected. And I wonder when something like that flares up in a group, if there's actually deeper connection then, because you had to work through that, right, than there was before if that hadn't shown up at all so much. Yeah, we worked through that. And at the end of that meeting there, there still was a bit of tension in my judgment. But the next meeting we connected, a man brought it up and said, Hey, This is going to touch on politics, but this is coming from my heart, and this isn't a reflection of, the way I feel about any of you in the group. So already there was just kind of a conscious shift in understanding other men and where they come from and the way that we relate in the circle. And then, you know, one of the men who was originally kind of triggered there said, Oh, yeah. I feel that. And please, you know, I support you and your emotional truth, like I know you support me and my emotional truth. And so that was so beautiful. It does. It increases the strength of our bond. you know, whenever we work through issues that come up either collectively or individually. You know, there'll be times where I'm dealing with a painful memory from my past and no need to really just get out anger. Like there've been times I've been mad at my boss. And so like to come in and have a man hold that energy and I can just feel the feelings and make the sounds that are attached to that feeling like men see that. And then, and then I get through that and men supported that and there is now a greater sense of connection. So yeah, so much that. When we work together and we stay together and, you know, kind of agree that we're going to support one another, we come out stronger and, and with a deeper connection. Beautiful. And I could imagine, but I want to ask if this is true, if that then, as you walk around the world in this divisive time, do you feel not as caught by it because you have this space where you were working with. Maybe difference of opinion or beliefs, but in this real human to human way. Yeah, a bit. My, mission is to create safe spaces for learning of all kinds to occur. And I think in this divisive age, you know, I, I have my political beliefs, but I don't project them into the world so much. You know, I share them much more personally. and I, the reason I don't project them is because I don't want that to be a barrier to creating a bond with someone. You know, if someone asks, I'm always happy to share, and then to, to start from there, but I, I certainly, yeah, I think, yes, I do go through feeling less triggered. I certainly have my triggers and there are times where I will go down the rabbit hole of, you know, what the future looks like and, and if this, then that, but more and more, I just lean on the things that I have control over in my space and in my community space and being the change that I want to see. You know, in addition to creating safe spaces for learning of all kinds to occur, you know, I want to create a world of compassion by honoring commitment. And so, what I can do to that effect, I do, and that guides me. But what I can't, I try to not let affect me so much. And so, Yeah, and that's kind of the message that I want to encourage my community to embrace as well, you know, that not to prescribe anything to anyone, but that that is, just to feel empowered in your world and to live in the Gandhi message of creating the world that you want to see. Mm hmm. Yeah, and I'm hearing that the world you want to see is a world where we can be connected in spite of our differences. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, our differences are what make us stronger. When they are understood, when they come together in a facilitated way, when it's not just one form of difference encountering another, because that can create its own set of challenges, but Yes, a world where, men and women and non binary community members are, guided by humanistic values that just emphasize the, the deeper truths. Yeah, I, I love hearing you say that you are, guided by the intention to, to stay connected in spite of our differences. How can we still be connected when we know that we disagree with each other and, And there was a poignant moment in our relationship where that really stood out to me, and made a really big impact, on my feelings when you called me up one day, you, several years ago and, and with a really kind of sober tone in your voice said that you, had something you wanted to tell me and you wanted to take accountability for having talked about Me, my, my choices, beliefs behind my back with another family member and that you wanted to apologize for it and you didn't have to do that. I didn't know you were saying those things. And, and yet there was something inside of you That wanted to choose connection, even, though it sounds like it wasn't even just your connection to me, but also your connection to yourself and your own relationship to your sense of who you are and who you want to be. And so I'm just curious if you want to share a little more about that with our audience of what that moment was like for you to feel yourself, acting in a way that you deemed out of your integrity and then, choosing, to come back into alignment with yourself. Yeah. Thanks, Miriah. Yeah, I think my decision to reach out to you and apologize for something that you didn't even know I had said was certainly inspired by the values of integrity and accountability and emotional honesty that I want my relationships to be based on. Uh, and most importantly, my relationships with, with my family and you being my sister that matters so much. And so, yeah, I, I remember making that decision and It was hard, but it felt right. And more and more having anchors in what, what feels right, guides what I choose to do and so, yeah, it was hard, but not that hard. Like I value our relationship and our connection so much. And I know that. being honest, uh, especially being vulnerably honest and being accountable, whether or not you knew what I had said, would strengthen our relationship. I knew that you would forgive me for whatever you had perceived there. And, you know, trusted, like I said, about our group, my men's group, that, speaking a truth to you that it would just make our relationship stronger. And I'm so glad I did that. And I judged that our relationship is stronger and I hope you feel the same way. Yeah, it's really even as brother and sister. I know that we have differences in opinions, even different values, and that's okay. You know, we have shared so much of our lives together that that counts for so much more than whatever difference that we have now in our adult lives, you know, having gone through the journey of life together, value that so much and would not want anything to jeopardize sharing that journey of life. So here's to, here's to that. And here's to sharing the rest of the journey. In a, in a heartfelt way that embodies dialogue and, understanding and connection. Yeah. Right. I'm going to come back to y'all's, the title of y'all's podcast, just the sovereign heart frequency. That's what I want for our relationship going forward, Miriah, is that we operate, or we, you know, synchronize on that frequency. Thank you for that intention and for how you take care of our relationship as my big brother and I'm just really proud of you. Thanks. I'm proud of you, too May this type of connection Be in all families. Yes. Katherine. That's a sweet blessing. And I also share that with the audience. May this type of relationship be part of your experience listeners. Just so the audience knows there's some, there's some wet eyes in the room right now. Yeah, it's, It's nothing short of an act of triumph over, the ultimate obstacles to, to choose love in the face of a world where we're being, spoon fed division and, I can't even count how many people I know who don't talk to certain family members, but Their political beliefs now and disowned their friends because of them and, and so to, get to be a part of this kind of love winning experience is, it's a, it's big and I honor how big it is. So it is big, it is, and it is also the better way of being. Should we close it up there? Feels like a really beautiful place to end. Yeah, I feel, I feel complete. Well, Skye, thank you so much for coming on. Such a pleasure. Yeah. Thank you. And thank you, Miriah. I'm cheering hard for y'all's podcast. I saw that you have a perfect five out of five stars on Apple, uh, in the Apple store. I haven't checked others, but no, I hope your message is resonating out there in the community and, you know, in the podcast universe, but no, I certainly enjoy it and listen to it and, think it's great. I think it's needed. You have found it a really great niche in, in the space. So. Blessings for y'all for that and keep on keeping on. Yeah. And same to you, blessings on your work and your community with the men's groups and just creating a integrated whole solid. Men in our world is, is such a blessing. We absolutely need that as much as we need, you know, families who choose each other regardless. And obviously it's, it's going to be the men who, who are. Integrated with their whole emotional spectrum and, ability to, walk with their feelings that are going to make those choices. So thanks for being an example for that and supporting others in doing that. Yeah, absolutely. That is so important in where I've come and, you know, where, where I am today and the journey that I've been on. And yeah, I just want to leave that out there with the audience that, you know, support matters and if you hear that call to adventure, answer that call, when you know that there's something there that is, that's important. Maybe just, just missing or you're just not quite sure, you know, lean into that, go, go explore that, especially men or male identifying listeners out there. There is a circle who will support you, who will be there in your corner, and guide you to some of those voices that are saying, hey, There's, more under the surface and just want to maybe leave with that invitation to men to answer the call and, and be the best version of yourselves. Beautiful. Thank you. Love you, Skye. You too, Miriah. Thank you so much. Bye, everyone. Bye. Bye. Make sure you subscribe, like and share the video for more content!