SHF Podcast, Season 2, Episode 1- This One Precious Life: Confronting Media Addiction, with Grace Murdock

In this episode, Miriah Feehery and Katherine Finley welcome Grace Murdock, who shares her journey of overcoming media addiction. Grace, a holistic midwife and coach, discusses how her relationship with social media became problematic, leading her to explore Media Addicts Anonymous, a 12-step program for media addiction. She reflects on the signs that alerted her to the issue, such as using her phone for comfort and feeling disconnected from her daughter. Grace also explores the negative impact media had on her self-esteem, focus, and personal relationships, particularly during the pandemic when her usage escalated.

The conversation then shifts to Grace’s 90-day media fast and her journey of self-discovery, including reconnecting with nature, creativity, and deepening her spiritual practice. As she becomes more present with her daughter and sharpens her intuition, she highlights the importance of navigating media consumption mindfully, especially in raising children in a media-saturated world. The episode ends with Grace’s reflections on the need for media education and the value of being present in the moment, urging listeners to reconsider their relationship with media for a more meaningful and connected life.

You can keep in touch with Grace through her email at gracemurdock25@gmail.com

Transcript

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Welcome to the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I'm Katherine Finley with Sovereign Heart Coaching and I'm here with my co host Miriah Feehery of Whole Being Counseling. We recognize that we're living through an intense time on our planet. There seems to be more polarization and division and less connected communication than ever before. We are here to change that. We intention to hold conversations in a container of love and authenticity. We believe that when humans come together from a heart centered place, we can not only understand one another, but we can get creative together, solving problems we couldn't solve alone. It's time to reimagine and rebirth a new world in which everyone's authentic voice is included in the harmonic orchestra of human voices, to create a world that works for all of us. Thank you for being part of this conversation, we're excited to have you. Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I'm your host, Miriah Feehery, here with my co host, Katherine Finley. And today we have a very special guest, a longtime friend of mine, Grace Murdock, who is here to talk about her journey through discovering and, reforming a media addiction. And empowering all of us, because I'm sure we all can cross that line in our lives from time to time. Um, what she's learned and what's been helping her on this journey of hers. So welcome Grace, and maybe you could tell our audience just a little, little blurb about yourself so they can understand the amazing person that you are, that I know you as. Awesome. Thank you, Mariah. Thank you, Katherine. Appreciate you both. And what, what an honor it is to be able to be on your podcast and congratulations. I know you just, uh, crossed a line of, I think a year. Yeah. Is that correct? Yep. Yeah. So congratulations. I am Grace Murdoch as Mariah said, and, uh, I am living in Asheville, North Carolina. I came here to pursue studies in holistic midwifery and I am a long time birth worker. Additionally, I, do coaching. I'm the mother of an 11 year old and yeah, really at this, journey of, as Mariah said, just discovering and wanting to make some changes around the way that I use media. And, I'm currently on a journey with that. That has been surprisingly, successful and enlightening and, happy to share more about that with you all. So thank you so much. And we're so curious to hear a lot more. And when you first told us the other weekend that you were on this path, we immediately wanted you to come on the podcast and talk more about it. So, so do you mind starting us off with what this program is called and. How you found it and what made you interested in doing it? Sure. Yeah. So, uh, this is a 12 step program for media addiction. So it's based in the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and it's called Media Addicts Anonymous. And I actually found it online. I do want to say that I am in no way, an official, representative of Media Addicts Anonymous. I am simply a media addict going through the program and finding a lot of success and actually learning a lot on the journey as well. My therapist actually told me about the program because when I re entered into therapy over two years ago, one of the key pieces that I knew I wanted to work on was my relationship with, the digital world and technology and specifically social media. and when I brought that to her as something that felt really important to me to address in my life to get back on track, she said, Well, that's, that's fantastic. There's actually a 12 step program for that. And she had gone through it herself. Um, and I did not immediately jump in. I sort of, you know, tried to address it in different ways with not a lot of success. And then, November of 2024 just started. Making my way into it fantastic So what were some of the signs that you noticed that let you? Evaluate yourself as someone who needed help with it or had a problem with media. Yeah. Thank you for asking. I literally Could not put down my phone. My phone was like this lover this companion And I would even you know There's a lot of different kind of phases and steps, but for me, one of the things that I noticed, when my daughter was quite young, I would reach into my pocket and I would, I would feel the, the casing on my phone and it literally felt like skin. It was an otter box, right? And it, it, like, it feels very realistic. And I would notice in my body that I would have. This, relaxing or calming effect by touching my phone and I was like, wow, that's kind of, interesting and odd. I was noticing that the time that I was spending on social media platforms was starting to feel a little ridiculous. I was noticing that when my daughter would try to interact with me and ask me questions, I would continually say, Just a second, just one more second, you know, give me five more minutes. I'll be done. And it would be a continual thing of her being like, mom, mom, mom. I saw her having a lot of anxiety. If I will go into the bathroom with my phone, because for her, that meant, I might check out for who knows how long. And for me, I was having focus issues. I was not getting things done in my life. And if I would sit and recall where has all my time gone, I would realize that I had been sitting on my couch scrolling for maybe three plus hours at a time. And I think the real indicator that, that had me connecting the word addict or addiction with my media use. was when I would consciously try not to use my phone for a period of time. So for example, I would set a timer and I started off with small things like 30 minutes. Okay, I'm going to put this phone away for 30 minutes. I will go put it in a drawer. I would set a timer. And usually within 10 minutes, I would sort of wake up from this trance and be using my phone and not even remember how I was using it again. And I was like, what the heck? This is crazy. Even when I try not to use it and make a conscious effort, I am using it. Like, I do not have control of this situation. And it started to really scare me, to be honest. Yeah, it sounds like you, you noticed. Primarily the way it was affecting your daughter and that being such an important relationship. Yeah, I can imagine that that was kind of heartbreaking to wake up to and see her anxiety around you taking the phone in the bathroom or just not being able to get your attention. So, yeah, was, was that the only relationship that you feel like was really affected by it or were there others? No, many others. So, you know, if I kind of track my One of the things that we do in this program is we actually write about our media history. And one of the things that I really was able to track is that for me, media was a way to check out from very early in my life. Um, TV, you know, a lot of our family rituals growing up centered around television. And I can still remember what TV shows came on on what days I can pretty much remember the jingles, you know, I created kind of my personality around different media characters that I watched growing up. And You know, fast forward to social media. one of the things that happened for me was, uh, postpartum, you know, I was in a very challenging relationship. I was getting most of my connectivity online. I had used social media to create a postpartum mama baby circle. So I was meeting with women in person, but. We were doing a lot of the communicating online and I am going to get to the question that you asked around the relationships that it impacts. But basically that postpartum time, that very vulnerable time of feeling a little isolated anyway, because I had a new baby and new responsibilities. that was a time when I really dove into social media. I actually started a business online, that, was really rewarding, but, you know, gradually most of my interactions were happening online. So it really has impacted a lot of my connections. One of the symptoms of the disease of media addiction, and that's really how we frame it in the program, similar to alcoholism, that it's not a lack of, Will per se, but it's, it's really a, sort of an allergic response to media. It's an obsession of the mind and an obsession of the body. And so part of the journey is isolating for media addicts. Isolation is one of the key things. It's so much safer to sit behind a screen and communicate and not have to deal with, anxieties that might come up from, you know, being interactive. and I would say it really got heightened during, the pandemic. You know, I just kind of stopped going out like so many of us did and got deeper into my media addiction. And then as things started opening up and people were getting together again, I literally felt like I didn't have the skills or the tools and that my preference was actually just to like zoom and text. And, even phone calls felt hard. So it really has impacted. Most of my relationships, including my relationship with myself because my self esteem, has really plummeted just. Thinking like I can't get off of my phone, even if I want to like, what is that about? You know? connections at work because lack of focus and not being able to take care of things. I used to be able to take care of, being checked out. So maybe not paying attention to emails and notifications that are happening from my daughter's school. So maybe I would miss, an event. You know, like a social event or a community event that, we were supposed to be at, yeah, it was a real checkout, honestly. I feel like I'm coming out of like a 10 year media haze, to be honest. And then kind of like looking around and seeing the wreckage. I know, Grace, I'm recognizing myself in a lot of what you're saying. And I'm sure a lot of our listeners are, could you say more about what media addicts anonymous talks about as the. The symptoms or the signs that you might have a media addiction. I heard you say isolating. Lack of focus checked out, um, you know, dissatisfaction with everyday life, right? So depending on media as a way to avoid your emotional discomfort, your boredom, your pain, your problems, it becomes really the main source of relief. It becomes your reward and your relaxation and your recreation and your relationships. And then as I was just talking about a mental obsession, so there's like a fear of missing out. And so we need to have our media with us all the time, right? We're, we're preoccupied with like, what's happening in the news, what's happening on social media. we might start to lose ourselves in too much information or the absorption of negative media. and all of that can start to result in a lot of agitation and unrest, depression, shame, hopelessness. So as I mentioned, you know, feeling, shameful or guilty about the amount of time that one is consuming media, depression, guilt, Like wanting to stop and not believing that we can even live without our media, like, how do you know, when I first got into the program, I was like, I mean, I'll do it because it's an avenue and people are saying that it worked for them, but there is no way. I'm going to be able to get off of media. So there's a hopelessness and that can create, depression and anxiety. One that I really like is called compare and despair. So we compare ourselves with what we see on magazines or in the movies or on social media. And unknowingly, Potentially, we, we start to create a persona that we're hoping other people will admire. but we end up feeling despair because we can't really live up to those ideals. or we might be compelled to follow like perfect people on social media. even though it like repeatedly makes us feel inferior. And then isolation, as I mentioned, preferring to be alone with media rather than to socialize. And then when we are with other people, we could be getting distracted by our devices. Another interesting one is fantasizing. So rather than having really meaningful relationships with real people, Potentially turning to media to satisfy our needs for romance or intimacy or sexual fantasy. and then we end up ultimately feeling a deeper loss of intimacy, which with others and, that can actually lead to more deprivation and loneliness, than before, risky behavior. So endangering our health or our life or someone else's to get our media fix. And an example would be texting while driving. you know, we would all tell our children not to do that if they were driving and yet how many times do we, text while we're driving and, you know. We could literally, kill somebody or even just like binging overeating while we're watching media, media addiction, and food addiction,, really go hand in hand. it could also be like depriving ourselves of sleep. This is all under that risky behavior. some people like binge, you know, and, and. As a result, they don't get sleep and then that affects their health. So all of that is, in that realm of risky behavior, time irreverence, right? Because time is the only commodity that we never get back. And when we're grazing on media or binging on media, we lose track of time. we forget what is actually really important in our lives, because media takes over. and that becomes like the focus over everyone., They also have avoiding our, life's purpose. So abandoning creative endeavors, intellectual pursuits, prioritizing our goals because we focus on passive media consumption instead. it can jeopardize our income, our education, our careers, our overall success, and then, as I mentioned, it's like we lose faith in ourselves. And I really came to a place of feeling like. I'm trying and trying and trying and I can't beat this and it's sucking up all my time and I'm probably never going to be able to create anything. Um, disconnecting from our bodies and nature is another, symptom. So In media addiction, you start to become unaware of what your body actually needs, because you numb your senses. So you can't fully enjoy your senses. Sometimes you don't meet your body's basic needs for rest or sleep or exercise or good food because you're indoors and you have media and you're just avoiding the nourishment and the beauty of the natural world. Physical ailments. So with prolonged media use, maybe back aches, neck pain, headaches, disturbance in sleep, digestive issues, carpal tunnel syndrome, problems with your eyes. And then, the last thing that they really list is, Withdrawal symptoms and, and this really was so real when I started. I'm on a 90 day media fast. And when I started, I was having withdrawal symptoms. I was like rocking and just, I had to have fidget toys in my hands for, you know, what would usually be operating my phone. you literally get a craving if you don't have your phone near you. and yeah, it can become just increasingly difficult to stop using media. So those are all, I know it's a lot, but, yeah, those are all symptoms of media addiction. So tell us more about starting this journey. and I'd love to hear at first, just the nuts and bolts. Did you use your phone at all and you just wiped it of all apps well, a lot of people, kind of, you know, feel like it's ironic that so my meetings happen on zoom. Partially because this is a really new organization it's less than five years old and there just aren't a lot of in person meetings happening for media addicts anonymous. So. I'm in a focused group within media addicts. Anonymous. They have a program called back to basics and back to basics requires that you fast from all non essential media is what the wording is. I have a sponsor and part of what you do with your sponsor is that you really identify It's what we call like your bottom line media or your alcoholic media. It would be the media that you use that's similar to like what you would, you know, what if you were addicted to drugs or alcohol, it's the things that really bring you down. so for me, that was social media. some specific texting conversations could become obsessive for me, and my phone in general, that that's kind of like what I identified as. and then you also identified. like top tier, top level, activities in your life. What are the things that actually make you, feel happy? You know? So for me, it's like going out into nature, connecting one on one with, a friend or my daughter, whatever. So you start to identify this span of activities and how you are affected by them. And I, I had no idea how I would do it because I. Utilize social media for, two of my businesses and I just stopped, I just stopped doing it, and things are sort of rearranging themselves around that, because I just didn't have a good answer of how to do it and how to do it without being obsessive. So I just stopped doing it. So for me, yeah, it's identifying the things that become obsessive for you. But the ask is that you really fast from all the media that you don't absolutely 100 percent need, because what can happen with an addict is that you can transfer your addiction from one form of whatever, you know, dopamine to another. So. By getting off of all non essential media, that really helps one, not just like if I get off of social media, but then I'm listening to podcasts all day or, You know, YouTube videos, it's different for everybody. They even consider books, anything that's media. Some people it's like they read books all day to check out. some people it's like being obsessed with the news lines, you know, the, the, the headlines of the news. so it's different for everybody. So the first month I literally just did nothing because that's what I felt like I needed. I did have a part time job that time and I had to do some things online. Like I was the social media manager, but rather than going on those platforms, I went to a secondary platform to create the content and to schedule the content so that I did not have to actually go on social media. Yeah. So right now I'm not doing any social media. I do do some texting, but with the key people where it could become obsessive and I wouldn't put down my phone. I just said, Hey, I'm in this program. I'm not going to be texting for a few months. if you want to contact me, let's have an actual conversation or get together. I don't listen to music in the car. I don't watch TV or streaming things or YouTube. I just sit in the quiet. And that's part of what the program is about is so that we can start to actually identify what's going on inside of ourselves without, trying to distract from our feelings and being with ourselves. Not having media to distract me from what I'm feeling has been, really difficult. But also really enlightening, you know, so rather than if you're feeling down, rather than like turning on your favorite song to help you feel better, or you're feeling lonely, so you would live stream something. It's just like you just have to be with yourself and start to learn what is actually going on. I'm about 64 days in and I have In the last two days started to uncover like a whole other layer of grief that I wasn't aware was there, you know, and it's been incremental, right? There was like the high of, okay, I'm not on media and I have all these media sober friends and community and we're all doing this together. and experiencing the withdrawal, but having this community, you know, and then really just getting into it of like, okay, that's great. And Wow, this is hard. And, I have, I have having a lot of feelings and I'm having to really look at like what I haven't taken care of in my life because I was on media. That's all still there. And now I don't have any fix to, to make it feel different or better. Brilliant. So, so brave. And I'm, I'm really curious to hear more if you, if you feel comfortable sharing what What has been coming up when you just sit in the silence instead of filling it with something and what are you doing in addition to just sitting with it because, you know, maybe you do something to resource yourself. That's not numbing like, yeah, work or yoga or something. I don't know. Like, what are you discovering is helping you in addition to just being present with your internal world. Thank you for asking. So part of the process every single day of the back to basics program. there's there are writing assignments, there are inquiries to help you get deeper into. You know, your understanding of kind of your makeup and why you're trying to avoid and why you use certain media or whatever. so that, that's really helpful. it's pretty intelligent. Like they try to support you to keep busy with, really nourishing, nurturing, enlightening things. I made a media replacement plan. I have it hanging on my. Door right over there. that's like, you know, yoga, get outside, go for a walk, call your mom, paint something. so one of the things that's been happening is I've been, a lot more creative. I'm really revisiting some of the things that I used to love to do. And for me, I love to physically write. I used to be a graffiti artist way back in the day, and so I've been doing graffiti letters, or I'll take things that I'm learning in the program and I'll, I'll write out quotes or prayers and I'm kind of making this deck that I can, if I'm having a weird moment, I can just draw a card from the deck and, and there's something inspirational that I've, you know, learned that I get to give back to myself. I've been playing games. My daughter and I have made up a few new games that we do together, which is really fun and they involve storytelling. And, I've been memorizing phone numbers, just trying to like get my brain, to function and be sharp, be sharper again. so those are some of the things that I'm doing. In place of what I used to do with media and some of what I'm noticing. it all really seems to be boiling down to two things. One is, my self worth, like literally a belief that, Yeah, that there's like a core belief that like, maybe I'm just honestly not good enough. Maybe I just honestly can't, live and be in the world in a successful way. you know, so there's all these different things that come up, but as I boil them down through the exercises that are being presented to us, I can kind of like get it down to that. And then just a tremendous amount of grief. Yeah. You know, like I lost my grandma recently and then we had hurricane Helene a month later and I recently lost my job. And so there's all these pieces to grieve, that I haven't given myself time to. And one of the beautiful things is sitting in it, feeling it, letting myself cry or thrash or numb out, you know, or whatever, and just being like, Oh, that did not kill me. I'm still here. I just felt that really hard thing and, I'm okay, you know, I'm just still here. So very powerful. Well, and you said, I'm still here, like in, in the recounting of what you're saying, what I see is, is you emerging because you're not covering yourself up with and distracting yourself with all of this. Media, you are there. Thank you for saying that. This really deep and beautiful way, which is where self worth can, it's the only place it can grow, I imagine. Yeah. And I'm really getting to see, like, who am I without all of that? You know, who am I without, like, having to promote myself or, you know, promote my thing or make sure my content is up to speed. I will say just this other piece that's, I was kind of writing about it before we got on today. My daughter, there was a period of time. where every single thing that we did in our house, was what I call commodified, you know, like I would be recording it or turning it into content. When she was younger and she would meet people, they would be like, Oh, I feel like I already know you. I saw you doing this on Facebook, or I saw you doing that on Facebook. And I think so often in our desire to share our lives with other people and putting our children on social media, we're really the first generation that's ever had that opportunity. And we just don't know what the implications are going to be. And for my daughter, it became a place where, She just would resist and then finally was like, you can't put anything about me on social media without telling me first, if you're going to put something on there. I want to see it. I want to know. But then also at some point, just being like, don't put me on social media at all. and so I'm really looking at the impacts. I know what it was for me. It was like, Yeah, these platforms can create the compulsion that we literally have to share every single thing. You make a meal, you take a picture, you do something fun with your family, you take a video and you show everybody. So one of the first things that started happening for me in the absence of using media was noticing my impulse in those moments. And being like, okay. This is something about your life that you enjoy. Just enjoy it. It's just for you, you know, it's just for you right now, you and God or whatever, you know? And so instead of having to take a picture of my meal, I could just breathe and smell it and look at it. And, If my daughter and I were doing something wonderful that for some reason I just needed the world to know how wonderful our relationship is. It's just like, oh, okay, this is just a sweet moment that you're having with your daughter that nobody else really has to even see or know about. so there's a lot of unlearning of the impulsivity that is happening right now. I relate to that a lot. I definitely, Found that even, even without social media, just in the realm of taking pictures, because I was a more of a hobby photographer for my early part of my life. I minored in photography in school and college. And, I remember everything that happened. That was amazing. I had to take a picture of it and it worked its way into my dreams one time. And I had this dream one time about seeing a triple moon. In the sky, and it was like, Oh my gosh, and it was like, obviously completely phenomenal because you don't ever see a triple moon in the sky. It doesn't happen. And I was like, where's my camera? I need to take a picture of this. And I couldn't find my camera. And I woke up from that dream being like, Oh no, I have to stop taking pictures. I can't, I can't behold something sacred. Without ruining it with the like disconnecting from the moment with the urge to take a picture of it And I think it's kind of similar to the urge you're describing to share it online and yeah, I just really saw that as a sign that I needed to learn how to just be present in the moment when beautiful things happen sacred things happen important things happen And not, not be distracted by recording it, documenting it. And yeah, I stopped taking pictures after that for a while. I, obviously, I have a lot of pictures still, even though, even with that. but I'm also aware of how it does affect our children. You know, when I hold my phone up to take a picture of my kids, I'm like, I kind of look at them and try and see, is this disrupting them right now, or is it taking them out of the moment of their own enjoyment of whatever's happening? Are they becoming more self conscious? I'm, I'm really like hyper aware of these things cause I don't really want it to have that kind of a negative impact on them, but, that is super powerful. Grace, how has it been for your daughter observing you over the last 64 days? It's interesting. It's been, it's been a mix. Because, my media sobriety has meant that some of our rituals change. we used to, you know, I, I co parent her. And it used to be that when she came home on Fridays, we have like a really wholesome, wholesome, series that we love that we had been watching together. And that was like really sweet, you know, we just get to cuddle on the couch and, just kind of like. Power down and, and watch a thing. we also in the past have really loved listening to music in the car together and listening to music and dancing in the kitchen. so those things aren't happening and that has been, challenging for her. Like she wants to just be able to do the normal things that we've done. and I have been able to explain to her like, we will, of course we'll do those things again. Right now, I'm just trying to let my brain heal and put some new behavioral patterns in motion and we will get to do those things. so that part has been challenging for her. However, we connect, like, we really connect now. just yesterday, we had a challenging encounter in the car. We had a long drive, and we weren't listening to music, so it was just conversation and game playing, and there was something that she felt disappointed about. And In part of her discharge, she was like, you're just doing this media thing, you know, this media addiction thing. And like, we don't get to do anything that we used to do. And you know, so that was hard to hear. But then later in the conversation, she said, Mom, I want to let you know that, I actually really appreciate that you're doing this. And I've asked her periodically, like, how is this for you? And are you seeing any changes? And she said, yeah, you're never on your phone. she's like, I never thought that would happen. when I do pick up my phone, even just to check something or I tell her, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to be on my phone for like five minutes. I can see that. anxiety start to happen again. It's like really in there, you know, or if I'll have it for a few minutes, she'll be like, it's probably time to put your phone away. But yeah, you know, she doesn't necessarily say it. but our relationship is so much closer. There's so much sweetness. For example, the other day we went to the park and we played basketball for a while. And then I sat down on a blanket and she continued to play. And I watched her, like I literally watched my daughter play basketball instead of looking at my phone in the past, I would have sat down and kind of started scrolling and like looked up and waved occasionally. but I really got to take her in. And just enjoy her. And we got to maintain connections. You know, she would like look at me and she knew I was watching her and taking her in. And it makes a tremendous difference because they know whether we're paying attention or not. so just things like that. One other example is might sound kind of silly, but it was really profound was that we were in the car and it was before school and the windows were all iced over and we turned on the, the defroster and instead of getting on my phone, we both just watched the defrost happen and she was like, Oh, that's so cool. I see a butterfly. And I was like, Oh, I see a dragonfly, you know, like in the shape of the ice melting. And it just has helped me open my eyes to how many moments we miss. from being engaged in our digital media or whatever media, you know, we miss a lot of moments. So just those sweet things with her are so different than they used to be. And, I feel like I'm getting to reclaim the preciousness of my life. And the simplicity, like the simple preciousness of, of this life. And I literally was just in, yeah, just such a trance for like a decade. Yeah. That sounds really profound. Just the simplicity is really where the profoundness comes from or is experienced. And I'm hearing that it's sort of all the overstimulation and distraction, just going into these incredibly. Simple moments, just letting your heart open and finding magic in ice melting. And that normally, yeah, we all have patience for and distract away from and totally miss. And I'm curious if you've noticed in this really profound transformation, you're experiencing, any different relationship with your intuition. When we're constantly filling our mind with stuff, we can't hear that small, quiet voice inside, right? Yeah, thank you so much for asking that. It's been one of the total treasures and highlights. I don't know if I've shared with you all that I am a formally trained psychic intuitive, and I had literally just started. Reclaiming that for myself right before this journey, and so when I was giving readings, though, you know, sometimes I would be like, oh, that was really on. And sometimes I'd be like, I'm not really sure if that came through. so a couple of things that I noticed is. Soon as I got off of media, I started having dreams again. Like I could remember my dreams. My dreams would be so rich and detailed and lay multi layered. And I would wake up just feeling Whoa, I just felt so nourished by that dream. But the other thing that started happening was that I would have a dream during the night and I was writing them down and then the next day, like. of the dream would happen. There would be something that happened that I was like, Oh my gosh, that was the dream. And just on the fourth, or I guess it was the third, I was out shopping and I had this impulse. It was like, call, you know, this friend, it was like first and last name. And I was like, okay. So I called her and I was like, I just had this total hit to call you. And she's like, Oh, probably because you need to wish me a happy birthday. She's like, it's my birthday. And I was like, I didn't know. so it's, it's really been like that. And even things where my daughter and I are joking about it. Because I told her that I was like, my intuition is like. Now that I'm not on media and I was kind of joking and I said, check the door and see if our cat's name is Aquaria. I was like, check the door and see if Aquaria is there. And she opened the door and the cat was right there. She was like, Oh my gosh, mom. So, you know, yes. From little fun, things like that to very, very deep. You know, profound realizations. Part of that, and, and I will say this because it's a key component. I don't know if you've ever done 12 step programs, but part of part of the process of a 12 step program is really to put us in deeper connection with God, you know, the God of our own understanding. So it's not asking you to believe in any certain thing, just that there is a power Beyond our power, you know, and so part of the process has been, what they call two way prayer. And it's basically just asking your higher power a question, you know, in prayer and then taking time to meditate and then write about what it. Came through in your meditation. so I've been doing that every day. And so it's one being off the media to, developing a meditation practice. I meditated anyway, but not with a lot of intention and, you know, and really developing this, The sense that there is information available to us in more ways than how we would normally access information. So that's such a good question. And it's like such an exciting point of my sobriety journey. So thank you for asking that. Well, it brings in the inspiration for me, I could imagine people listening, there could be this trepidation thinking of how, how could I do that? Get off of media. But then hearing about what can come forth from this, like what is suddenly available when we're not in that addiction and distracting ourselves, it's really inspiring. I really love my life without media way more. Beautiful. And so the back to basics program is 90 days. So what happens after that? so it's actually 30 days at a time. A person could come in and just do 30 days. But, there's like a kind of an incremental process that happens and most people choose to stay in. so that's a great question. You know, one of the pieces of Sobriety in like a 12 step container is really taking everything one day at a time, and not getting too far ahead of ourselves. I have had a few people ask me, is there some kind of integration? will you ever be able to use media again? yeah. So at the close of the 90 days, there's a couple options. I can either just decide to be done. I could also, be a sponsor for like, Back to basics, groups that are happening. So that's one way that people can kind of stay involved in that way. the, the MAA as a container has meetings every single day. So I will continue to go to those meetings and. Do outreach calls with the people in the program, which, you know, it's very different to have support from people who are actively dealing with media addiction and, and name it as that, and can really relate to what you're going through versus just talking about it to, I don't know people in the world who don't necessarily think that I even had somebody tell me like, why are you doing that? You don't have a media addiction. I was like, wow, that's crazy that you would say that to me. so I'll definitely stay connected and tuned in in that way. and then there is what's called a, I can't think of what it's called right now, but there is a process that you work through with your sponsor that, helps you, just. time where you're going to plug back in, right? So I know somebody who's a little farther on the journey than me. And he was like, yeah, you know, I watch something with my wife, you know, once a week, we get to watch something. so there is a plan that you put together very consciously and you work with other people in the program that kind of help you discern, you know, Is that something that's going to enhance you or might that trigger a relapse or so? There's just a ton of thoughtfulness that goes into it. I don't totally know what it's going to look like. I have another month left of the back to basics program. so stay tuned, I guess. It sounds like there's, these important questions of what brings nourishment and enhances my life and what drains my energy or. Distracts me, takes me out of my life, and that feels like questions all of us could ask even without doing this program to do a bit of a self assessment of our own media usage. Yeah, absolutely, uh, and based on what our goals are and what we want to achieve in our lives, you know I will say this because it's a very powerful part of what? Planted a seed around media addiction for me I had a dear friend from high school who was in a journey with cancer and I went to visit her Probably three months before she passed and one of the things that she said to me was I was at the appointment with her when they told her that she potentially only had three more months to live. And when we were driving home and I was asking her like, that's huge. how did that land for you? You know? And she said, one of the things that is so crazy to me, As somebody who has this, impending date on my life, is how much time people spend on their phones. She's like, for me, I would give anything to have more time with my boys. She had three boys, she has three boys. And that really, and I was, like, deep in my media addiction at that moment. And I was like, wow, that is so, confronting. And humbling and, and she did die, you know? And so it's one of the things that I, that I come back to when I start to feel like it's okay, you can do your media thing. It's, you know, I'm just like, this is my precious life. You know, I want as much time with my daughter and my loved ones and truthfully interacting with life As I can because we're all gonna have that point where it's getting closer to time for us to you know Go to what's next. So yeah, I have one last question before we close and it's about parenting so I I watch my daughter and of course You know, I set the boundaries around screen time that she has and it's, it's quite limited and I watch her system when She's about to get that and how much she craves it and how much she thinks about it how much it occupies her mind of getting her screen time for you know, Saturday and I'm just wondering your thoughts about after going through this program about parenting differently with our children That are around it so much. if there's anything you are doing differently, you want to do differently, any advice you have about that. Thank you so much for asking. I think as parents, that's probably one of the absolute most, we're the first, again, we're the first generation that's really had to, take this whole other realm into consideration. I have a lot of anxiety around media use for my daughter and her her friends. She does attend a school that, you know, has some requests of families around digital use. So that is helpful because I can kind of lean into. This is what the school says, it, yeah, it brings me a lot of anxiety. I guess what I do is I talk to my daughter pretty frankly about it. she is watching me go through a media addiction program. her request has been, she literally said to me last week, I need you to know. That I am not going to be addicted to media. I know that you are and that you're working on that, but not everybody, uses media like you have used media. And I want to be able to use it without you being scared. and, you know, I do need to be able to use media. And so I talked to her really frankly about, like, um, I get it. I understand, and I do feel nervous, and, I I think most parents do. so, you know, just bottom line, things is, you know, she's on a group text with her friends from school and I observe that and I read it and when she's at her dad's and she's on it, I can see that she's on it from there. And if she's waking up early in the morning and getting on or doing it at night, I'll just send her a message. And it's like, Hey. I need you to get off of that, you know? So I think like setting guidelines of, morning and night, like a window of time before they can get on it, obviously having, you know, set amount of time per day that they can use it, ultimately finding ways to instill, appreciation for life so that they have a solid sense of themselves without media. Um, I think that's important. I had something. And why am I losing it? Oh yes, I'll share. So being in this program, one of the things that it has tuned me into is, so I grew up in a hunting community and, in school when we were 13, we had to take a hunter safety class. before we could have a gun, you know, anybody that was at all interested in hunting with their family had to have a hunter safety class. We all know that when we get to the age where we can drive, we have to go through a driving course. I really feel that, we need to have initiatives that are, like, I don't know what we would call it, a digital, digital safety course or, internet safety course where we literally inform children, you know, or, or coming of age, like here's my breakdown and I know we're getting to the end. We live in a culture where, unless we're really seeking it out, we don't have rites of passage. And so our kids at the age, when they're coming into using media, it's kind of that time where. They're looking for guidance outside of the family. They're looking for ideas about who they want to be and how do they do life and how do they come into themselves? That is very well known by the people who fund and create our digital platforms. And so this is a time when. Our kids are naturally leaning away from us and into the wider culture to understand who they are. And so if they're just being handed devices and there's billions, literally billions of dollars invested in the keeping them on these platforms. Right. So. I believe and am interested in working with others to develop a program that supports them to understand, clearly that this is very addictive, these are what the harming points are, these are the people or the entities that are funding this, and this is why, and you need to know some basic and not so basic things about using these devices. and how are you going to interface with with your device when you're in your card, you know, so I don't know exactly what it is, but I think it's asking them. What are you looking at when you're on there? what do you like about it? What does it give you? And what do you give it in exchange? So I'm developing just some very basic conversations to have with kids about that, but I think it's important for us to understand as parents that that key part of like we don't have rights of passage and initiation and our Children are looking for that. And if we're not giving it to them and we're giving them devices, the devices are going to give it to them. And that is, in my opinion, extremely scary. So I think it's important. As a culture, we have to get, now ahead of this. I mean, we're already behind the curve on it, but we, we need to like really rally and create some systems. Yeah. I share your passion with that. And I feel like we could have a whole multi length series on children and media and raising them well. And there are a lot of wonderful people already doing that, but there's a website called wait till the eight. That is really interesting, not giving any children any screens until 8th grade, which is even still pretty young, but, at least a lot of the, the super foundational brain development is, is already established at that point. yeah, like school districts where there's complete screen interface with their curriculum, they're noticing, you know, basically brain damage on the children. It's just really, unsustainable and hurtful and I would love to explore that more, and in some other time when we have a little more time. Yeah. Thank you both so much. Grace. Thank you so much. I wrote down, you said reclaiming the preciousness of life and that just feels like the. Nugget of gold. I'm taking away from this conversation. that there is this beautiful, precious life to behold and witness and be present. And, and, yeah, you're sharing is just such a beautiful way to get get back to that. So thank you. We're so grateful. Thank you, Katherine. Thank you, Miriah. Grace, do you want to include any way our audience get to contact you if they want to join? I think it's really this shared vision you have about creating a safe digital world for our children or even just for their own personal journey through, you know, responsible media use. Yeah. Thank you for asking. Email is actually the best right now. So can I just say my email address? Yeah. It's Grace Murdock. So it's GRACEMURDOCK25 at gmail. com. And, I, I really welcome that. I have a system of checking my email twice a day and, yeah, I would love it. I will be, Developing some things to do both locally in the community here in Western North Carolina and, virtually on zoom. So also if people are interested in being kept in the loop, emailing me is a great way to do that. So thank you so much for asking. Thank you, Grace, for sharing your time with us and for the courage that you are such an example for that inspires me, I know it's going to inspire. Thank you. I appreciate you. 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