SHF Podcast, Season 2, Episode 4- Let's Talk About AI

​In this episode, Miriah and Katherine dive into a thought-provoking conversation about artificial intelligence-where it's heading, the potential risks, and the questions we need to be asking. Together, they explore how we can reclaim agency and make conscious choices around AI, rather than unknowingly allowing it to shape our lives and society.

Transcript

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Welcome to the Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I'm Katherine Finley with Sovereign Heart Coaching and I'm here with my co host Miriah Feehery of Whole Being Counseling. We recognize that we're living through an intense time on our planet. There seems to be more polarization and division and less connected communication than ever before. We are here to change that. We intention to hold conversations in a container of love and authenticity. We believe that when humans come together from a heart centered place, we can not only understand one another, but we can get creative together, solving problems we couldn't solve alone. It's time to reimagine and rebirth a new world in which everyone's authentic voice is included in the harmonic orchestra of human voices, to create a world that works for all of us. Thank you for being part of this conversation, we're excited to have you. Welcome back everyone to Sovereign Heart Frequency Podcast. I am your host, Miriah Feehery, here with my co-host Katherine Finley, and today we wanna explore this ever so timely, UpToDate current topic of ai and there are. A lot of opinions about AI out there, and ours are just a drop in the bucket, but it seems as though maybe it's not being talked about enough that. The speed at which AI is being shoved down our throats and seeped into every facet of our lives is mind blowing. And we're kind of just like, Hey, hey, can we just stop and slow down and talk about this for a second? Can we like half a powow or a, a talking stick circle or,, some meeting of the minds? And just be a little more in intentional and conscious about this. And of course. No one's gonna really. Teed our, our request to, to slow down and wait for us to catch up., it's its own train. It's just going and we thought maybe some of our audience might wanna slow down and think and talk about it a little bit too. So if you have any feedback, you can, put it in the comment of our podcast reviews or, Reach out on one of our websites that is listed in our podcast notes, and we can continue this conversation there. But Katherine, why don't you, introduce with just a little basic orientation to AI for us. Mm-hmm. So I decided to ask chat GPT, what is ai? To hear it from the ai, that's Infinity Mirror. The Infinity mirror effect, and so. Chat, GBT defines AI or artificial intelligence as the ability of machines, especially computers and software, to perform tasks that typically require human intelligence. Things like understanding language, recognizing patterns, solving problems, learning from experience through data and making decisions, and of course. There's this very broad range of AI in our world right now. Everything from an automatic thermostat to self-driving cars, facial recognition software, and of course, things like chat, GBT and other, AI programs on the web. I don't even know there's a lot of them. There's Gemini. There's. Irock, there's a Claude, there's, which is the one that China owns? The Chinese one. I dunno, I forget what that one's called. Yeah. There are a lot of different systems and, and those more advanced ones, I think are on their way to becoming freethinking. Right? They're, they're feeding them with data now, and eventually that will lead to, A free thinking ai. I'm not sure if I'm right about that. That's my understanding. Me too. That's my understanding too. And you, Miriah and I talk about this all the time together, so we wanted to talk about it with you all of, you know, how to be intentional with ai. Is AI helping us or harming us, or how is it helping us? How is it harming us? Because what it feels like is. That it's moving so fast and there's already this, belief in the world, especially I think in the work world, people using computers for their work, that you have to use these AI systems to keep up and you're probably already behind. So you better figure it out quick and use this and catch up. And Canva has ai. Now Zoom uses AI for all sorts of things. So even the programs you were using before without ai. Are probably now using AI with or without your permission. And it is, it's been so fast, it's so right. It's, it feels important to take some breaths and slow down and think about the ramifications of all of it. It does, and obviously. We are not going to change the world by just talking about it on our little podcast here, but I think it is important to, to be conscious and mindful about how we each have our own choice of how to use it. And, in my own little bubble world that I sometimes retreat into, I have yet to interact with a conversational ai. And it's not like a point of pride for me. It's, it's actually something that, I feel a little shy about saying because. It's, it's a vulnerability of mine that I'm kind of, I'm scared of robots. I was raised in the nineties where every single movie about robots and AI was there going to kill you. Every single freaking one, they're all going kill you. Single one. So when AI came out a couple years ago, I was like, why the fuck are we doing this? They're gonna kill us. Everybody knows this. Everybody knows they're gonna kill us. It's just a matter of time. It's not if it's what, because that's what I was fed by every movie I ever saw about it. And so you get into some possibility. So I am, I'm a very stubborn person, and so I can, I can hold out forever, but will I, should I, is that even right for me? And, you know, I think a lot about the words and teachings of Rudolph Steiner.'cause he's, just been a really guiding light in my life through the chaos of the world that is the world right now. And he says that it would be foolish, basically for anyone to hear all of the cautions that Steiner has about technology. And to avoid it, he says, please don't hear my words and think that you need to become some kind of purest, you know, only natural human and not interact with technology at all. Because if you do that, you are deleting yourself from the future, from being influential in any way, shape, or form. And he's very much a proponent of, you know, stay close to nature, work with wool and beeswax and wood, and, you know. In Waldorf schools, they, they don't really have plastic toys because of the teachings of Steiner. And being human in the biodynamic way means, you know, using the, the movement of the planets and the moon to plant your seeds, not, you know, high tech. Fertilizers and, and ai, laser weeders and whatever other technologies, right? But for as much as he is a proponent of staying close to the natural world and the health benefits of, of natural materials, he is also just as. Emphatic about not disregarding technology in your life because he knows where humanity is going or, or he knew where humanity was going. He was a clairvoyant. He could see past, present, future and understood the big picture. And he understood that if, if anyone heard his teachings and and rejected all of technology as a result of it, that they would be at a great dis disadvantage to. Being able to guide that technology to serve humanity and for, and not the vice versa, not the humanity being servants of the technology, like the people who want to stay natural humans and not become, transhumanists need to interact with technology so that there is a voice and there is an influence, and there is a way to bridge the worlds that are, that are inevitable. Of, you know, the natural world in the technocratic world. Mm-hmm. I like that you started with your fear of robots. And I wanna talk about the fears too that come up for me. When I think about AI and its progression, and I think there's two pieces that really. Worry me. One is our children. And I think about if, if children are growing up not having to think because they don't have to learn to write their own papers because AI can do it for them if they don't have to learn how to solve math problems because AI can do it for them. I worry about what that is going to do for the human ability to, Think and rationalize and, tap into their own instincts and be creative. Like what is that gonna do for that process? So that's one of my big fears. And the other fear is AI in the body. And I know that there's these beautiful ideas for AI in the body, like I think neurons. You know, proposal is about helping paraplegics, is that right? Helping people who don't have use of parts of their body be able to live a, more normal and beautiful life. And I think that intention's really beautiful and there's something inherently in my gut that feels really nervous about AI in the body that could then send signals to my body that I am not choosing for it to send. From some outside source. And, and I feel like what Steiner is saying, or what I'm getting from what you were saying about Steiner is, is how do we hold on to our humanity with ai? Maybe that's the question. Right? And, and that there's a path. I don't know if it's really. Threading a needle threading the camel through the needle. Like is it a hard path? Right? Maybe. But maybe there is that path of holding onto our humanity and our intuition and our creativity and our connection to divinity, while also utilizing AI in our world. Yeah. There are so many risks and dangers on the path of integrating AI into humanity. And I know there's a big push for AI to run governments and I mean, if anybody has ever worked with an automated telephone system, I mean, you know how. Just blind and dumb. They are like, you need something with a pulse to help you navigate the complexity of, of human experience. Right. Can I tell a story about that? Yeah. So I just ran into an old friend of mine at a organic grocery store around here, and he was telling me this story where he needed to call, you know, customer service for something. And someone picked up the phone and he got his name, I think his name was James actually. But he, had an Indian accent and my friend assumed that it was from a call center in India and he is talking with this man and having really nice conversation. And then they got off the phone and my friend had a number, he had to call that James had given him, and he called it and he realized there was like a digit off in the number. So he called James right back, and James, started acting like he didn't really know the conversation. They had just had, it was a brand new call. He couldn't proceed with the previous call. He. Like he couldn't integrate that into this call. And, and my friend was like, are you ai? And this James character was, AI was not a real person. On the other end of the line, and my friend talked about how his attachment system got kind of wrecked for the whole day because he, he thought he was talking to this real person that was being really helpful and kind and then. Was not a real person and didn't even really know who he was when. Right. How did he notice his attachment system being wrecked? Did he give you any details about that? That is so interesting. Mm. It's deception. Yeah. Right. Which is, is a violation. Mm-hmm. To our relational system. Right, right. Ooh. Yeah. I mean, I think that's what he felt. He didn't go into details, but mm-hmm. Um. Wow. Right. Yeah. This is what we're dealing with. Yeah. And I know that AI is entering the medical system. Mm-hmm. You know, probably most concierge of any profession are gonna be run by AI. Now, anyone you call and have to get directed somewhere or, um, well, and here's another example. So this is me using ai. It is my, certainly my ideal to support. My local community and support the beautiful practitioners here. So, I would love to hire a homeopath, my daughter was having stomach issues and go to the homeopath and pay the homeopath for a session. What did I do instead? I went on chat, GPT and I. Ask chat GBT to respond as a homeopath and find out my daughter's constitution and then to give her her constitutional remedy and remedies for her stomach. And I got it within five minutes for free. Oh wow. Yeah. And what are your thoughts on the ethics of that? I mean, I loved and hated it, right? I loved how easy it was and I didn't have to pay$300 for a homeopathic consultation and I hate it. I hate it. That then homeopaths who I have so much respect for. Are not going to get the business that they otherwise would. Now, would I have gone to that consultation because it's$300 right now in this moment? Probably not. I probably would've not done anything. Right. And you could have got a book, a used book for$5. And Reddit and, you know, the publisher wouldn't have gotten any money, would've just supported your local bookstore or whatever. Yes. I mean, that's what I would've done in that situation is pulled out one of my homeopathic family remedy books and just picked one uhhuh or used my intuition. And I, I, if I knew enough about homeopathy. Yeah. Which I don't, but well, in finding someone's constitutional remedy. So in homeopathy there's this idea that everyone has their one remedy that helps with everything. So the Home Health Pass spends a lot of time with each client finding out their particular Constitution and their. Homeopathic remedy for their life. It doesn't mean they might not take others for other things, but it supports their constitution. So that's what I was asking. Ai. I don't, and do you trust know that I could've done that myself. Would you, would you give that to your daughter for the rest of your life and never look again for an answer? For what? Her constitutional remedies? No. I would wanna confirm it. Mm-hmm. Because I. I was telling this actually to a friend, so she got on chat, GPT and asked about herself, astrologically, and it got it completely wrong. Uhhuh, completely wrong Uhhuh, and so. Good news for astrologers, not obsolete yet. And I actually had some real relief in that uhhuh relief that it got it completely wrong. And then I was able to say maybe the homeopathic stuff, it told me it was completely wrong with a, which actually feels relieving uhhuh to me, to my sister. Tell me more, tell me more about that. Uh, it's like that humans. That we are still needed, I think is where the relief comes from. Mm-hmm. And I know that even if AI is doing all of our jobs for us, we will still desire and seek community and contact and needing each other and being able to touch each other. Right. All the things that well. I mean, you and I will, but all the people who are currently suffering from severe anxiety, especially with any kind of social anxiety flavor to it, might look for their friendships online. Mm-hmm. In artificial intelligence. Well, there's absolutely people knowingly dating ai. I don't know if you call them AI bots, but they're, they know that they're AI and they're dating them. Yeah. Or befriending them. Mm-hmm. And. Yeah, that's already happening. I know of a few personally. Sounds like you've heard of some too. And I, I certainly know from people who I've served as their therapist that that would be a very practical choice for them when they're mm-hmm. Anxiety cripples them from being able to make friends of flesh and blood. Um, that would be, you know. I'm not saying that's a wrong choice for where anyone's at. I know that those people are suffering and deserve to have some relief, and certainly that's a lot better choice than, you know, getting addicted to a substance. But I wonder, you know. Obviously anything like that is, is and should be a crutch to get through a hard time. It shouldn't be the end result, like, right. People need and deserve real human bonds or bonds with nature or, or animals or, you know, anything alive and, and with a soul or spirit that can, you know, help you. See yourself and, and deepen, although some people might say AI does that for them. And if you know now children that are alive now in this time of AI where AI can be part of their childhood, if their parents are giving them access or their schools, um, you know, a kid with anxiety. That then starts with feeling that comfort with AI from the beginning, right? And never, never has the contrast or is never learning to be with humans in a more comfortable way. I mean, I think about my daughter who doesn't have access to ai, but she's quite shy. And, um, when she is meeting new friends, it takes her a while to warm up. But then she does. But if she was just making friends online instead, and that was this comfort zone for her, and I wasn't pushing her edge and introducing her to people and helping her, sink in and open up. I mean, I can imagine she would just get shyer and shyer, you know. Mm-hmm. And, and less and less confident when it came to relationships with humans. Sure. Right. And just, I mean, think of all the kids in our generation and later. And how it's gotten progressively worse. Who have chosen video games over, you know, hanging out with people or now you can play video games online with your friends and you never have to be in person with them. Or obviously social media can kind of suck young people in like that. And, when I was a kid. It was really exciting to take quizzes from magazines'cause the internet wasn't really all that,, established then. And even just having this magazine tell you something about you was exciting, oh, I'm like this. And then imagine that on freaking steroids with AI reading you and telling you about yourself from this You know, intellectual, sophisticated processing that it does, like, whoa, that probably has a great appeal. I don't know, I haven't done it personally, but, Maybe I should get you on chat, GBT after this podcast. I'll have to put all my, my protective charms on. It's so alluring. So Miriah has not worked with ai. I do some for my work in basic ways, right? Like, creating a document for me, worded in a certain way. And it is very alluring and once I started using it for things, it's really hard to justify why. I would then just, you know, write that three paragraphs myself versus just have AI write it for me and I half a second. Well, I use chat GBT to help create our podcast summaries. Right? Right. And it does it in 10 seconds. Less. Less. Right. This. Inner battle of, well, would it be better for me to sit and think and contemplate and write my own? I mean, it probably would not take that long. To write my own paragraph summary. Yeah. It might not be as thorough, but you were there so it'll be accurate. Or have, Hey, I do it for me in five seconds and it's probably not gonna sound better than I would've sounded, maybe. Maybe, and I mean, whoever reads our show notes anyways, but, maybe some people do. But yeah, that seems like a pretty harmless use of it. And I am not at all abhor or scared of using AI to, to summarize data, to scan data, to, find data., Research it seems like is a great. Tool to use AI for, here, here's, but when it comes to, you know, critical thinking mm-hmm. And problem solving and creative thinking, writing poetry, making pictures, creating art, writing a persuasive essay, it can do those things and it can do them quicker with us and maybe even better. But my main concern. With the ethics of that side of it taking over our, our processing creativity and problem solving is the, the atrophy that will be caused in the human brain to do its own thinking. Exactly. And I, I am all for ai. Saving people time so they can do the things that their sole desires. Like if I could, get AI to do all my marketing for me and then I could just show up and be creative and share my gifts with the world, that would be awesome if I had a personal assistant that. Did all that for me because I'm not very good at that. I'm good at the visionary and connection part, but, never have been all that great with the nitty gritty red tape of anything. Then, yeah, that to me seems like an, an advantage of AI for humanity. But then. It is kind of like, well, that benefits me, right? But is obviously my preferences are not the only ones to be considered in this big, wide world. And, and I respect other people's feelings and, and needs about it. But I think what you were naming from your relief about, it being wrong with your friend's astrology reading. Is, I don't think any of us want beautiful souls who are trying to offer their gifts to the world to be replaced by ai. You know? Right. And when you're meeting with an incredible astrologer, so much of it's almost channeled through their spirit. Right. Right. And intuition, the soul embodiment of it all. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And AI can never. Do that? you know, so we say, but who I mean will tell I suppose, well, in the research piece, and to be honest, I could be getting some things wrong here, but. You know, if I ask chat GPTA question, it's not giving me references for where it's getting its information. Maybe it would, maybe, I, I could say, please give me references for this, but I'm saying that in that it's not necessarily right. And mm-hmm. There's already this atmosphere of well, it knows way more than me. It must be. Right. And that is, is dangerous. That is dangerous. Yeah. I heard about a system called Character ai. The idea is that you can talk to a character. So I could talk to George Washington which sounds really cool actually. Right? It's interesting and creepy. Yeah. And this woman talking about it, she was doing I think Genis Khan or something, but it was wrong. It was wrong. It was not answering correctly. It was getting some Big things wrong around the history there, and so then our kids, if they're learning the wrong thing through the system, but everyone's just assuming it's right. I mean, there's been this train of. Who's checking this? Nobody. Right. And you're giving your power away to this authority that is not an authority. And I think that's a good word of caution to not. Mm-hmm. Give your power away to AI to think for you and just assume that it's always right. So my friend Nima has this, thing she calls the Denny Effect, and it's the fact that if you ask AI for the best rated restaurant in your area, then. You might get Denny's showing up because it's just using the facts of the restaurant that has the most ratings that are five stars. So you might make a reservation to go to the best restaurant in your area and it's Denny's. And so when you're working with, ai, it's analyzing the human data that's out there on the internet. And it's limited mm-hmm. In that way. And there's not the, the human ability to, to discern from experience. Right. And that's why there's so many trainings right now on how to use AI because it's all about asking the right question to get the answer that you want. And there's. A lot of trainings on this, depending on your field, depending on what you're trying to get out of ai. But it's all about the way you ask the question and what question you ask. So someone might say, give me the top rated restaurant that the average price of the meal is between this and this, right? There might be some other way to ask. Right. But if you don't know, you don't know. Yeah. If you don't know you're asking the wrong question, then you don't know you're getting the wrong answer. Right. Which is why the trainings are now not about how to market yourself, how to ask AI the right questions to have it market you. Uhhuh the best way. Uhhuh. Yeah. I mean there's obviously a learning curve with it, but like you said, what about the children who are. Growing up with it. Mm-hmm. And can you imagine how far AI has come in the past few years? What it's gonna be like in 10 or 20 years? I mean, who knows if they'll even be an electrical grid in 10 or 20 years? I mean, anything's possible, but if things continue in this trajectory, yeah. What the heck? Nobody knows. But I do know that, you know, there are conferences being. Held in the world right now where the people who are behind the scenes with AI kind of running the show are saying, in one to two years, there won't be any jobs left. Mm-hmm. None. Or, I've heard 85% of jobs will be gone, and I think about, but the majority of jobs will be overseeing ai. Overseeing ai. And then I think about the jobs that require touch, like a massage or acupuncture. There are jobs that I guess robots could eventually do. But I would never want a robot giving me a massage. That is so creepy. Oh my gosh. Now you're getting into like Battlestar Galactica, like humanoid cyborgs. Oh my gosh. But 85% of jobs. I mean, we really have no idea what that means. My dad was saying something to me the other day about college for my daughter. You know, she's got 10 years till then, but. I was like, dad, I don't even know if college is gonna exist in 10 years with ai. Right. AI is changing education permanently, forever more, and maybe it's for the best because nobody needs to sit in their classrooms and memorize shit all day long. I mean, that's not all you do in school, but that is a lot of it. Mm-hmm. I don't think that's, the best use of the human mind, and I think that's a failure of the public school systems. And so AI making those things obsolete anyway, I think is okay in my mind personally, but. As I said before, the, the threat that AI has to do away with the ability of the human mind to do critical thinking and creativity is mm-hmm. Is a tragedy if that ever happens, which I'm sure it already is happening to some people and to some degree. Mm-hmm. Well, I heard about a program. Some school systems now are using AI tutors and it's showing really, really good results because the tutor can take, the AI tutor, can take the specific child's needs and tailor a program instantly. That's gonna be supposedly on point for this child. Right. And it's working well, by this account. And part of me thinks, well, that's great, right? And if then education suddenly becomes tailored to us specifically through ai, then we would just have our own AI teacher. For our schooling and not need a classroom and not need a university. And maybe that would be better and then we can spend time with people. Enjoying and socializing, but it feels scary to me to think about it. Right? Or the future of education could be that, you know, we learn to be so embodied and receptive to the world that we can just draw from the knowledge of the records or just bring it down from the realms of the unseen and, and embody it. And that's. Maybe the, the last thing we can talk about is AI taking us from humanity, and how to not let that happen. And my daughter and I have been listening to the telepathy tapes together, which I'm sure a lot of you all listening have listened to and we've talked about. How we all have this gift of telepathy, right? We just have forgotten it. And that part of our, brain and body is not used, and we can learn it. And so anything that takes us farther from our innate divine godly gifts, I want to use very sparingly. Right. How Do we get back to knowing our bodies are these miracles? I mean, we, we still are the most incredible technology on the planet. Definitely hands down, even with AI in existence. Good point. Yeah. And I think it is possibly a, a harmless and helpful function of AI to do the mundane, trivial things that is kind of a waste of our energy. So that frees us up to really take the time to practice telepathy or whatever we want to be outside just listening to the birds and the bees and getting sun on our skin or whatever. You know, I think, there could be, a beauty in that, but where does that line get drawn, right? Because somebody might think, oh, well. If AI grows our food, because I saw this video of, a tractor that was controlled by satellite, by ai, and it had a video camera that identified what, what was a weed and what was the crop, and then it used a laser to shoot the weed off of the ground and let the crop live, and it just rolled over the fields like that. Right? So you take that and you contrast it with Rudolph Steiner, who talks about. Your intention that you put in to, the, the water with the fertilizer that you pour over the plants and the, the right time of year to, to pull the weeds and, putting the seeds in your mouth so they are connected to your sali, salivas genetics. Yeah. And just the way that plants respond energetically to your love and presence, which is measurable and. All of that, you know, and the, the food that you grow is, beautifully tailored to know what your body wants and needs. If you walk with your bare feet on that soil and it reads your energy from your, your bare feet, or you put it in your mouth with your saliva or you water it with like diluted amounts of your own urine or whatever, and all of these ways that. Then the food gives you back exactly what you need and don't, and doesn't give you what you don't need. Versus, you know, AI growing your food for you, maybe that frees up some time so you don't have to grow food yourself, but then how is that food going to serve you in your body? When your body breaks it down, is it. You know, these are complicated questions and everyone has their own answers because I want to have relationship with plants. That's me, Miriah. Personally, I want to be aware of all of the elements as I'm in my garden and, and tending to what my plants need that then feed me what I want. And need, and somebody else might not want anything to do with that. Somebody else might not give two flips about the nutrients that their food has and they just want it to taste good. And they're not wrong and I'm not right. It's just, you know, different worldviews and, and so yeah, I'm. I am not trying to make a prescription about ai. I'm just really wrestling with it for myself and my children. And I'm open to using it someday if I can break myself out of the fear that it's going to kill us all. Today's the day. Well, I wonder as you're speaking, I'm just thinking of maybe guidance. For myself is, you know, is it taking me away from nature or connecting me more to nature? And I have the belief that health, our health as a human body and spirit is really intrinsically tied to how connected we are to nature we are of the earth. And so if AI helps me get my work done way faster and I'm with the earth much more. Maybe, you know, that's a sign, right? Or that's giving me information if I'm on AI and I just double my workload or, I'm so fascinated by something online that I'm more and more disconnected from nature. Or I'm asking AI questions that I could ask my own inner guidance that's taking me farther. Mm-hmm. From. Nature. Nature and being with nature and my own intrinsic humanness, my own intrinsic right divine nature, I AI could be just like the next magic eight ball. Just highly more elaborate and sophisticated where you just give your power away to this eight ball to tell you what to do. Mm-hmm. Um, but I would see that as, as harmful because. I'm biased. I believe that we have divinity inside of us, and that divinity speaks to us through our intuition and guides us through our soul's purpose in this life. And, we can only listen within when we're truly seeking our, our truest. Next steps on this path that we've chosen for ourselves. And anything you give your powerway to even a, even an astrologer that mm-hmm. Is a flesh and blood that you pay money to, could be in some way giving your power away or with the proper intention. It could actually really serve you to, to see what you can't see on the path. And to help you then go within more, more fully. So, You know, we've explored that idea on this podcast before of, of outsourcing your power, not just to ai, but to, humans in any profession. But yeah, I feel like as a mental health counselor, a, a psychotherapist, I feel confident that. My profession is safe from the AI takeover because I believe the greatest value that I have as a therapist is helping guide people back to their soul because I have a soul and I've taken great efforts and, and pains and journeys to, to connect with it and contact with it, and I can thus. Teach people what worked for me and maybe it'll work for them and I can recognize, you know, soul loss and soul retrieval and, and soul connection and, and kind of know how to guide people in that way. And can something without a soul do that. Even if it's studying the works of people with souls, and, I don't know, I know they've been trying, ever since I've seen ai, they've been trying to replace counselors and therapists for some reason. That's like one of the first things I ever saw them. Trying to do. I was like, okay, this is weird. I would never wanna talk to a robot about my feelings or, but I know some people are, and some people think AI is their best friend and probably their best therapist, and it's, it's quote unquote flawless, right? Mm-hmm. So I'm not naive enough to think that, no one will go for. An AI therapist, and maybe some people don't really value the benefit of a human nervous system co-regulating with another human nervous system and don't really value the the soul's. Guidance and calling, or don't even maybe know that they're oriented to it at all. Maybe they're atheists and don't believe in a soul, and so AI counselors are fine for them or they don't realize, they don't realize that that co-regulation even happening. I feel curious if there'll be a pendulum swing with, with things like therapy where, you know, people just go to AI for therapy, which there's a lot. Out there now. And then over time they realize it's not the same, it's not as satisfying. They may not even have words like co-regulation to understand why. Mm-hmm. But there'll be an inner knowing that being with a person, and I really love being in person with a therapist. You know, so many of us. See therapists online now. Mm-hmm. But that there's just no substitute for that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. If you value that, there's no substitute for it. Mm-hmm. And not everyone values that, and I recognize that and respect that. Mm-hmm. Um, and yeah, and I also recognize that, that there can be harm done from, a therapist who's. Not aware of their countertransference and maybe is projecting their own past trauma onto, a client or their own past conflict onto a client. Mm-hmm. And, and so not to say that every therapist is doing a great job, you know, mistakes can be made and supposedly AI wouldn't make mistakes. Right. But you and I kind of just busted that bubble already that It, it can and does and will always. And how much do we want to put stock in that? Like if, if AI does start running parts of the government, do you want whether or not you get. Shelter, food, healthcare. If you rely on the government for that to be automated and because of some typo in your application, you're next and there's no human around or they're overloaded with the 50,000 appeals to their outcomes that they're, they'll get around you in a couple years after you're already. Starving and on the streets or whatever, or there's a power outage, like there just was in Europe, a huge power outage and none of it even works. Right, right. Or it gets hacked. Right. I mean, so much can go wrong there. And I mean, a power outage would affect government now anyways.'cause so much of it is on online. But I don't know what the government does in those cases, but, yeah. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot, a lot that can go wrong with ai. I don't think anybody would disagree with that. And there is also, a lot that it could help with. But like the things that you've said, you use it for. If it went away, you would still be able to do those things, right? Yes. It would take you longer than 10 seconds to do it, but you would be able to adjust your life to find that time and, and manage. But there might be things that AI takes over that when it goes away, for whatever reason, a power outage or solar flares or whatever, some, you know, aggressive nation hacking and taking it over or, or. Putting a virus in it and destroying it, whatever that kind of thing is gonna be coming towards us from the future, then yeah. What then if the whole entire system is reliant on that, on AI running the show and there isn't a, a comparable backup, then yeah. To me that's pretty risky. Yeah, I feel like I'm back to the place where I usually am At the end of these conversations we have together of let's just move to the country with lots of animals. Garden our own food, have beautiful water, beautiful wells, right? Yeah. That's raise our children on the lands, like easy way out. Although, you know, I'm sure the, the ancestors who live that way would look at us and be like, no. Enjoy your, your modern conveniences. But maybe not. Maybe they're like, oh my gosh, y'all in a world of trouble. You just need to chop wood and carry water. Again. Who knows what the ancestors would say. I had probably a little bit of both. I had. A old coach a long time ago tell me that every convenience has a consequence. Mm. And that words of wisdom. Yes. I think of that all the time. Mm-hmm. With technology and am I so glad to have a washer and dryer? Absolutely. Right. But every convenience has a consequence and so can we. Slow down enough and step back and take note, and then be in choice rather than just be on this AI train that the world seems to have put us on. You know, even now when I get a call center and it's like, please select from the following menu, one for this, two for this. And I don't even listen to the menu. I just press zero because I know zero will always take me to a human. I do not like dealing with those automated things. I wanna talk to a person, and I know that makes their. Their lines take longer or their job harder, whatever. But I do it every single time. Well, now you might get James, I always want the choice to press zero. May we all always in every circumstance be able to press zero and get to a person. That is a good prayer. That's a good prayer. Yes. Well, I'll leave us with that prayer. And we always have a choice. Yeah, a choice of zero. Thank you everyone. We'd love to hear your thoughts on all of this, and hope you enjoyed the conversation. Make sure you subscribe, like and share the video for more content!